Surfcasters attention! Push to ban jetty fishing!

[plugginpete]

This came from another site. Don't know the guy who started the thread, Sudsy, but someone said he is pretty famous on the internet for publicizing this info.:clapping: I think it's cool that at least a few people are getting involved, before we have no places left to fish at all. Hope it's ok to post here? I'm going to start calling tomorrow, and if you guys here could start calling, that would be cool.




Long Branch, Avalon, and a few other towns in NJ are at this moment making a concerted push to keep people off the jetties 24/7 as a matter of "Public Health and Safety." There's going to be a meeting this coming Wednesday, July 16, at Lisa Jackson’s office. Lisa is the head of the NJ Dept of Environmental Protection (DEP, the people who take the lead in beach access issues in NJ). The meeting is going to be between the lawyers for the towns and the DEP.

According to DEP rules, the public cannot be denied access to the water, including the jetties except when there's an exigent (exceptional) reason. The towns are using "Public Health and Safety," a buzz term in government, claiming that jetty rocks are slippery and sharp as their exigent reason. They are probably going to use as an excuse the cost of defending injury lawsuits even though they are not legally liable.

The way I see it, this smells suspiciously like Long Branch’s way of using the back door to legislate us off Elberon’s side roads. This is something they are trying to do now with parking regulations. These new parking regulations are probably against the DEP rules, forcing the town to try this angle. I’m not familiar with the other towns’ reasons as they are south of LBI and outside of the area with which I’m familiar.

What we have to do is barrage Lisa Jackson’s office with calls and e-mails letting her know how important access to the jetties is to us. Please be courteous and keep in mind that Lisa and the DEP are on our side. Lisa’s husband surf fishes (though probably not as hardcore as most of us). It's important that the DEP understands how many of us use the jetties and that we are extremely serious about protecting our 24/7 access to them.

For you out-of-state people, please mention the amount of money you spend in NJ on tackle, meals, and lodging and that you will be bringing that money elsewhere if you are denied jetty access.

lisa.jackson@dep.state.nj.us (lisa.jackson@dep.state.nj.us)

Lisa.Jackson
Office of the Commissioner
401 E. State St.
7th Floor, East Wing
P.O. Box 402
Trenton, NJ 08625-0402

phone: 609-292-2885
fax: 609-292-7695

[bababooey]

I copied this e-mail from another site, and sent it myself, Anyone who wants to can feel free to c&p. Would be more effective to send something in your own words, but if you're not that motivated, feel free to send this. I did. :embarassed:



Comissioner Jackson,

It has come to my attention, and those of many fishermen, that various towns are meeting with DEP staff on Wednesday to discuss possible ways to close jetty access with the excuse that it's a public safety issue.

Make no mistake, they are targeting fisherman and using the public safety as an excuse.

I expect that DEP will make it clear to the town's attorneys that jetty access is protected by the public's right of access.

I, along with the tens of thousands of members of NJ fishing web communitites, such as StripersandAnglers, BassBarn and StriperSurf, will be watching how your department and Gov. Corzine treat the public's right of access for fishing purposes. Thank you for your time.


Sincerely,
___________


cc: Gov. Corzine
Sen. John Adler
Asm. Lou Greenwald

[buckethead]

I'm in. Where are our rights - BTW - What soul is going to be brave enough to come and get us or wait 4 hours until we leave?

[bababooey]

buckethead, don't think that would work unless we got 30 guys together, called up the PD, and told them we would be fishing XXX hetty at XXX pm, and they should come and arrest us. :rolleyes:

Here's a post from another site asking all people who fish to get involved. We need numbers of fishermen on this, not just a select few. Anyone who has ties to or membership on any other sites, please post this info. We could use any help out there from anyone who wants to send and e-mail or make a phone call:



[e-mail sent. If anyone is a member of other boards, please get the message out there as well. We have the numbers to stop something like this, but sometimes we let petty arguments and differences get in the way.

Access, once lost, is rarely if ever regained.

Now is the time for all of us to put our words where our mouths are, please get involved and speak up with a personal e-mail at least.

If we lose this access, at least if we try as a cohesive group, we can stand tall and say we tried, instead of just ranting about it on the internet. http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/images/smilies/graemlins/cwm40.gif

Even if you don't surf fish, but fish in any way, shape, or form, this could happen to your group, or in your area, one day soon. It's already happening in LI at Shoreham beach, check the LI forum for details.

Others have also jumped on board to get this rolling, but Sudsy, and other long standing members lere, like curl, and too many others to mention, IMO, are like the "high caffeine energy drinks" we need to get us motivated. Great job and http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/images/smilies/graemlins/clapping.gif http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/images/smilies/graemlins/clapping.gif for all those who are keeping the fires lit, and won't let this go silently.

This is happening in real-time, guys. Please get involved before it's too late.]

[voyager35]

Buckethead has a point. The PD's are not going to wait for us. We still need to get involved. Every time you turn around towns are trying to take away our rights.

[fishinmission78]

e-mail sent today. Any info on the wednesday meeting? I'll bet they will have it during the middle of the day when most guys can't get there.:burn:

[stormchaser]

Sent my e-mail as well. Wondered if some of you guys could help out and take a look at the NY forums, we are having access problems at Shoreham, could use all the help you can give. Thanks.

[dogfish]

I fish mostly from sand and use my kayak other times, but you're right. e-mail sent, keep this going before we all lose access. :clapping:

[albiealert]

I don't live in NJ, but I hear you guys, have to protect for us all. e-mail sent

[pinhead44]

E-mail sent. Please take a look in the NY forum as well, we could use your help with the Shoreham access.

[paco33]

email sent

[clamchucker]

Here's the latest info I have about a meeting she had with Tom Fote, a guy who is a great friend to all fishermen. :clapping:


To All,

I had a meeting scheduled yesterday on many subjects with Commissioner Jackson. During that meeting I asked about this email and she said protecting fishing access 24/7 was a priority of DEP and the town must assure that access. There is no compromise. The towns might be talking about it but it is not going to happen. Representatives of NJSFSC and NJOA were also present at this meeting when she confirmed what I have included in this email. This has always been true at DEP. What the towns are upset about is that the new DEP Public Access Rules that provides more public access. I hope that clears up your concerns.

Sincerely
Tom Fote
Release for Tomorrow


<@((((((>< <@((((((>< <@((((((><
Legislative Chairman
Jersey Coast Anglers Association
New Jersey State Federation of Sportsman's Clubs
22 Cruiser Court
Toms River NJ 08753
<tfote@JCAA.org (tfote@JCAA.org)>
Phone 732-270-9102
Cell 732-598-7669
Fax 732-506-6409
Email tfote@jcaa.org (tfote@jcaa.org)

[wish4fish]

Hope u guys get somewhere, cus i think it's all about the benjamins. Once those richie richie ppl start movin in, maybe they'll make more excuses. And 5 spots thing really sux. I fish back by the Belford inlet where they have 5 spots, but most of the spots have beemers and mercedes in them when I go there. :burn: u can't tell me a dude in a beemer or mercedes is out there fishin, they just park there cus they want to fish-block us. :don't know why:

[bluesdude71]

I sent my e-mail too, but think wish4 makes a good point about the 5 spots. How will you know that the only people parking there are fishermen, and not just people who came to visit their relatives and were didn't want to walk to far for a parking spot?:huh:

[bababooey]

This was posted somewhere else, latest update.




Commissioner Lisa P. Jackson has requested that I respond on her behalf to your recent e-mail regarding potential limitations on public access to tidal waters, specifically fishing access on jetties and groins.

As you know, the Public Trust Doctrine upholds that the public has the right to access tidal waterways and their shores and that these rights are held by the State in trust for the benefit of all the people. Accordingly, the Coastal Zone Management rules have always required public access to and along tidal waters and their shores when issuing permits for most coastal developments and activities, particularly along the oceanfront. Further, in recognition of the use of jetties and groins for fishing, the public trust rights rule required municipalities participating in Shore Protection Program funding to allow public access to jetties and groins, unless it is demonstrated that such access poses an extraordinary risk.

This exception will be applied at my discretion with the understanding that there are inherent risks associated with fishing from these structures under normal circumstances and that people engaged in fishing on these structures understand and accept such risks. In short, I would expect any restrictions on such jetties to represent exceptions rather than the rule.

Please contact the Bureau of Coastal and Land Use Compliance and Enforcement's Toms River field office at (732) 255-0787 and speak to the appropriate regional representative with any specific information you may have or receive related to public access restrictions. Thank you again for your interest and involvement in preserving public access.


David Rosenblatt
Administrator, Engineering and Construction
dave.rosenblatt@dep.state.nj.us
609.292.9236 Trenton
732.255.0770 Toms River

[Sudsy]

For the most part it's a very positive reply
However, I would like to see a clear, tight definition for the term "extraordinary risk."
What we see as small to average risk might be construed by township attorneys as "extraordinary"

[plugcrazy]

For the most part it's a very positive reply
However, I would like to see a clear, tight definition for the term "extraordinary risk."
What we see as small to average risk might be construed by township attorneys as "extraordinary"

Some lawyers would call taking a bath a risk because you might fall. I been lurking and following this, not sure if I can do anything, but thanks bababooey,Sudsy and others for pushing. :clapping:

[DarkSkies]

I sent her an e-mail a while ago, and got the same reply bababooey got. Today I got another one, a clarification of the previous one. Hope this doesn't mean that they will use that clause to back out of protecting our rights, as Sudsy implied in his post.

I think there should be no exceptions if they would just post a wooden stake at the top of each street stating exactly what they said: that fishing the jetties is dangerous, fish at your own risk.

This is the same way that Sandy Hook handles unguarded beaches when people swim there. Signs are posted, and that's the end of it. Problem solved, so please let us fish, or we will fish below the high tide line anyway, and then they will have to prosecute. Checkmate.

Here's what they sent me:



Please be advised that the 3rd paragraph in the email (included below) you received from me regarding public access to jetties should have read as follows:

This exception will be applied at the Commissioner's discretion with the understanding that there are inherent risks associated with fishing from these structures under normal circumstances and that people engaged in fishing on these structures understand and accept such risks. In short, the Commissioner would expect any restrictions on such jetties to represent exceptions rather than the rule.

The error was made in the transition from the letter written for the Commissioner's signature to the email sent under my signature. Thank you for your understanding.
__________________________________________________ ______

[DarkSkies]

Bump to the top. There was an incident where a member of another site was prevented from fishing a jetty in Ocean City the other day. Cop came there and told him he had to leave.

The events:

Bdubbs wrote

"got kicked off a jetty last night tog fishn... cop came up and said i couldnt be there even though every other night ive fished that jetty for as long as i can remember hes just riden right past and not even said a word. i told him he needed to find something better to do, then he threatend to write me a ticket.... i dont understand NJ sometimes. it seems anywhere else in the world you can just do what you dam please but not here. were all sheep that get told what to do....


now did he have legality to do that? i may be misreading that document above but it seems to me that that document says we have open right to any jetty we want unless its super dangerous or somesuch?"

[DarkSkies]

what I said:


Hey bdubbs, you should copy this document and bring it with you next time. No one wants to get arrested when fishing, just not worth it. But we as fishermen have rights, and we should stand up for them.

Got this from somewhere else, hope it's ok:

____________________________

The Public Trust Doctrine (http://www.nj.gov/dep/cmp/access/public_access_handbook.pdf)
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...ead.php?t=1044 (http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=1044)

The set of laws that guarantees all people rights to the water. First set by the Roman Emperor Justinian around A.D. 500 as part of Roman civil law, the Public Trust Doctrine establishes the publics right to full use of the seashore as declared in the following quotation from Book II of the Institutes of Justinian:

“By the law of nature these things are common to all mankind – the air, running water, the sea, and consequently the shores of the sea.

No one, therefore, is forbidden to approach the seashore, provided that he respects habitations, monuments, and the buildings, which are not, like the sea, subject only to the law of nations.”

Influenced by Roman civil law, the tenets of public trust were maintained through English common Law and adopted by the original 13 colonies.

Following the American Revolution, the royal right to tidelands was vested to the 13 new states, then to each subsequent state, and has remained a part of public policy into the present time.

Through various judicial decisions, the right of use upheld by the Public Trust Doctrine has been incorporated into many state constitutions and statutes, allowing the public the right to all lands, water and resources held in the public trust by the state, including those in New Jersey.



Here's the link:

http://www.nj.gov/dep/cmp/access/pub...s_handbook.pdf (http://www.nj.gov/dep/cmp/access/public_access_handbook.pdf)

http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/misc/progress.gif
_________________________

There is a fine line between being belligerent and asking the officer to please explain what statutes you are in violation of as you bring the copy of the Public trust doctrine out of your pocket, and hand it to him.

Ask him specifically what law and statute you are in violation of? Ask him how that can be so if the public trust doctrine supercedes municipal regulations?

It is your constitutional right to fish below the high tide line in any outside coastal area in the United States (with the exception of some river and tidal areas where there are riparian rights that extend beyond the high tide line).

Because this happened to you, I am finally taking a copy of the paragraphs above, and the complete public trust doctrine. I'm printing it, and carrying 2 copies with me everywhere I go from now on. One for the police, one for me.http://www.thebassbarn.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

I was too lazy to do it before, but now I see it's time to take action.


Something has got to give here, and we will keep losing our access as long as we are not aware of our rights. Maybe a bunch of us will have to organize and get together on some of these jetties, asking the police to arrest us, and forcing the issue in the courts.

I'm ready to step up and get arrested for fishermens' rights. Not looking for trouble, but I am sick and tired of hearing stories like yours. Anyone else ready to get arrested and wants to get a group together, e-mail or pm me.

More importantly, I firmly believe most towns don't want to try this issue in the courts. If they lost to one fisherman, it would set a precedent for lawsuits to be put forth everywhere.

Most towns feel we as fishermen will act like sheep and just go away. the time has come for anyone who is irritated by this to say: I'm mad as hell, and I won't take it anymore!!!http://www.thebassbarn.com/forum/images/smilies/mad.gif

In NY, it's even worse, where the town restricted access at Shoreham beach, even though it's a violation of the Public Trust Doctrine. A group of dedicated fishermen are still fighting that one out.

I recently went to Connecticut to fish with my girlfriend. You wouldn't believe the poor public access they have there.

One day in that state "trying" to find a place to fish convinced me that we have to stand our ground, or we will get our rights trampled on like sheep!

So clip that Doctrine, carry it with you, and respectfully ask the officer to read it next time, and ask him SPECIFICALLY where are violating that law, and what statute he is referring to. You don't want to get into a confrontation, they are just following orders, doing their job.

But WE have rights. If we don't stand up for them, we will lose them forever.

[DarkSkies]

Guys, I'm thinkin the time is coming where we may have to be willing to be ticketed and/or arrested to prevent our rights from being taken away. Who's with me? :D

I know it's a big step; lot easier to let other guys do the work, take the risk. But we all suffer if we lose access. As bunkerjoe or someone else said, access lost is almost impossible to get back.

I am a member on other sites, and trying to see what happens at Shoreham, those guys are really getting the royal screwing!

If it comes down to it, we may need to protest, or see our rights taken away. Don't think 5 or 10 guys will cut it. I'm thinking we will need at least 25, or maybe 50 or more to have an impact. Then we could call the press, and get this thing out in the media.

Eventually, the towns would have to grant access and come up with some kind of agreement. But many are hesitating to make the first move to draw the line in the sand, and say we will not accept it anymore.

So I'm in - if there is something going on in NY, I will make the drive to protest. NJ, Delaware, anywhere else something is happening, I'm willing to give an hand. Anyone from another state who reads this, if I can help, let me know.

I will not let this happen in my lifetime, or at least without a serious protest. :lynchmob:

[lostatsea]

Was bored at work today and searching some old posts. Pretty ironic there is now no need to ban jetty fishing because there are hardly any jetties left in NJ.