The Who, What, WHERE, Why, and How Thread....Real talk and Crusty Advice...Old School

[DarkSkies]

Lately it's occurred to me that many people are focusing on WHERE to catch fish.
that seems to be the prime focus of social media, real time reports detailing where fish were caught, what rocks to stand on, or what rip to cast from.

**DISCLAIMER:
If that's your prime focus and fishing mentality, you probably won't be happy here or in this thread. If you're sensitive or easily offended ......you probably won't be happy in this thread.
so..... For those types of folks.....Please avoid this thread and don't read any further....

If you really want to learn, and are willing to work hard, please feel free to jump in, as I and some of our members may be willing to share some thoughts on things we have learned over the years.

[DarkSkies]

We all have different levels of experience, and I hope most of us have a thirst for learning. For me, learning is an ongoing process. I hope I have never learned enough that I think I don't need to learn more, for that is the day that I should leave this earth and no longer be fishing.

I have learned a tremendous amount about surf fishing as I became obsessed about using artificial's to catch fish. I have been fishing for saltwater species since I was 12, comfortable catching them on many types of bait, often wading the back bay mud flats to dig worms when they wouldn't hit anything else. Keep in mind, that often the biggest fish of the year are caughtby those dedicated souls out there fishing bunker heads at night. Even when fishing bunker heads, you have to understand the tides, and fish feeding behavior if you really want to be successful.

Making the transition to catching them on artificial's taught me to think more critically ....as in the beginning I failed on most of my efforts.

Along the way, some kind souls have mentored me.....for which I am most grateful.
in return I started a mentoring program, and tried to mentor a few promising people. However, I found that they didn't want to do the work. They wanted me to tell them WHERE to fish.
No one ever did that for me. They gave me bits and pieces of scant information, that caused me to start to think critically.

So That's what I intend to do for the newer anglers out there......as a way of giving back, what was so kindly and unselfishly given to me....
None of it was given to me on a silver platter. No one ever took me by the hand and said: hey....let me take you fishing at night and I'll show you exactly what to do.

For the most part, my advice here will be rhetorical questions. I'll know the answers but I'm not giving that out here. I want to teach folks to think critically.
if you pay attention to the questions or brief statements here, and are willing to apply it and thoroughly give them a chance, I guarantee you will learn more, and become a better fisherman.

Anyone who is close to me knows that I am rough, unpolished, candid, and brutally honest if you ask me something in person. I'm not gonna be any different here, because I'm comfortable with who I am.

[DarkSkies]

I recently came upon a few anglers who just didn't understand. One angler was looking at a bunch of bass feeding on peanut bunker in the bay, and told me there was no fish underneath the action because he didn't see anything jumping.

Just yesterday, someone else mentioned to me that he was leaving the area because the fish left. Of course, I let him leave and continued to catch fish for most of the day.
Another guy came up to a few of us when they were bunker flipping, unharassed. And said "Gee I see the fish blitzing out there but they are too far out I'll never get to them."

to understand how to deal with this, the best way is to learn about feeding behavior, and bait migration, and bait behavior.

I will try to impart a few grains of wisdom, to get the wheels rolling in someone's head...who is really interested in learning.

[DarkSkies]

I don't have any children to pass my combined years of knowledge on to.
For that reason my harshness softens whenever I see a father and son team out there struggling to catch fish. Speaking anonymously, I can say that I have helped quite a few father and son teams improve their game this year. I am so glad to have been a part of that..

Some time ago, I realized that if I don't start sharing some of this, when I die, it all dies with me.
just like some of the greatest surf fishermen I have had the privilege to know, and they died.
We still talk about them, but their knowledge and experiences are gone forever.

Will start with the basics for anyone who is interested in learning more. Other members, or newer anglers, feel free to ask or comment. But I can assure you, we're not going to take you by the hand and tell you exactly what to do. We will try to help you to think more critically.

in the end, the goal is to help you think, and start to look at your fishing as part of a big picture, rather than learn about spots. If we have accomplished that,....then to me, that's something that was worthwhile.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[DarkSkies]

Do you have a favorite place to fish, where you are comfortable because you have caught fish before?
if the conditions change there, have you fished both tides to find out why?
if not, why not?

[DarkSkies]

How many times have you been skunked, because you didn't understand what other fishermen were doing?
did you pay attention, and try to adapt your techniques to those who were successful?

[clamchucker]

This is a great idea dark skies. I am willing to help newer fisherman as well, as long as they are respectful. I have helped many at Island Beach when they could not catch fish. So I will try to help you out with this as well.
One key thing that I noticed when some younger people say they can't find fish is they are only working one part of the water column. You need to work the whole water column before you decide that there were no fish in that area.

[hookedonbass]

:clapping::clapping: fantastic thread and outlook, keep up the good work, thanks for everything.

[buckethead]

I like your point of getting people to think, so I will chime in. Frequently I have seen people post reports or complain that the striper or blue pulled the hook. A lot of that is fisherman error. Know your drag and the right settings. Too loose and you may never bring that fish in. Too tight and you most certainly will lose it.

[jigfreak]

When you fish an inlet or rip, and there is a sweep, don't be a ****** and cast differently than the other guys. Pay attention, watch how they cast first. That is all

[hookedonbass]

Kudos for trying to help people. I wish you guys could give a seminar on fisherman courtesy for the dudes who dont give you any space to bring your fish in when there is a blitz going on.

[hookset]

^^^^ people are selfish. There used to be a code of honor that when someone was hooked up all the other casters would give them space. I still see that but not as much.

[hookset]

Jig was talking about how to cast when fishing inlets, etc. I find thats also important on a windy Beach. There is usually a swell or some type of wind which you have to account for when your casting. Most of the guys dial into this and if you see that follow them. If you don't you're going to cause trouble down the line and probably get some nasty comments as you tangle up.

[cowherder]

Kind of funny that in today's times when people are so sensitive that we are talking about common sense rules of behavior. people should just know this stuff but I guess they don't.

[cowherder]

Also would like to expand that blitz fishing etiquette. There could be a whole thread dedicated to that. When the fish are running the beach you will catch them when you keep casting. There's no need for guys to be fishing shoulder-to-shoulder. I try not to do that and as has been said sometimes I wish more people followed that idea.

[buckethead]

I agree, that's why I try to stay away from blitzes.

[buckethead]

A lot of you folks know that I catch many of my fish with a bucktail. There are times in the spring or summer when I throw plugs and other things but a folktale is my old reliable. If you will, "go to" when fishing. I think everyone should have a go to that they feel comfortable with. At least start out with that and then work your way into other offerings.

[cowherder]

I know I'm not an old-timer like some of you guys and old crabbys, but you have taught me a lot so I thought I would ask but I learned yesterday. Keep it moving! I followed the fish and moved my truck 9 times yesterday afternoon.

[buckethead]

I think we're all qualified to share our opinions here. I noticed dark doesn't post that much lately but I think that's what he would want.
For me, surf fishing is not about ego it is about about learning. Hopefully we all learn each time we are out, and learn as well to appreciate the beauty of nature around us.

[buckethead]

Fish the pockets
this might seem obvious to everyone who fishes the pocket at Island beach, exedra. I'm referring to other Pockets where water/bait gathers up and they may become trapped. This could be a jetty, Inlet, or just the natural progression of bait and current going into the cut on the beach. A lot of my success has to do with that. Learn to find the pockets that are less obvious and remember what you did.

[porgy75]

Such great advice, and seemingly without the grouchiness that was promised? I feel cheated! where are the crusties and crabby's?:d

[hookedonbass]

Rofl advice is only good if someone is shouting at you? Seriously dude?

[7deadlyplugs]

Yeah if the guy has barnacles growing on him it might be better received.:kooky:

[lostatsea]

I have a question and hope maybe one of the old salts or someone else can answer. Why do the fish keep banker's hours this fall? I mean why are they only around in the afternoon? It's like if you have a job you're not going to have a chance to catch. Almost like you have to be out chasing after blitzes everyday to really hook up with some stripers. What gives with that?

[ledhead36]

Ooh ooh I have a question mr. Kotter. Why is everyone out fishing when the internet reports are all over about the blitzes. when most of the stripers leave and it gets a little cold out, then no one is fishing for them anymore? What happened to putting the time in and working for your catch?

[nitestrikes]

No one wants to do that anymore, not when you can chase reports on Facebook. Just my .02. I still believe in working for them.

[nitestrikes]

I have a question and hope maybe one of the old salts or someone else can answer. Why do the fish keep banker's hours this fall? I mean why are they only around in the afternoon? It's like if you have a job you're not going to have a chance to catch. Almost like you have to be out chasing after blitzes everyday to really hook up with some stripers. What gives with that?

It's because there are simply not enough fish to go around. Just my 2 cents.

[dogfish]

Agreed. the only ones who don't know that are the newbies.

[ledhead36]

It's because there are simply not enough fish to go around. Just my 2 cents.
The charter and party boats have wiped the Raritan resident stock out. We used to have fifty to a hundred fish nights on clams in the spring. those days are mostly over. Me and my crew have shifted to the Hudson and harbor areas to catch stripers.

[ledhead36]

New guys looking for some good advice for the spring, follow the bunker.

[plugcrazy]

I agree. Also look for the winter spearing. Try to find them at night. When they are around have found some stripes as well.

[jigfreak]

Such great advice, and seemingly without the grouchiness that was promised? I feel cheated! where are the crusties and crabby's?:d
Well-said. I have issues with the Facebook Sharpies who base there fishing on report chasing. Walk the beach or bay during low tide moon cycles. Open your eyes, look, listen, learn. More valuable than any internet fishing report will ever be. You can take that to the bank.

[dogfish]

When I was a kid, there was a bridge I used to go to in the springtime and check out the fishermen fishing in the shadows. There were these two older guys who you somehow knew were the better fishermen near that bridge. They were only there late at night. I got to know them and they took a liking to me after a while. Whenever a casual observer came up and asked "hey guys are you catching any big ones?" - their standard answer was: "nope not catching much, just fishing." By the end of the night they usually had a 20 or 30 pound bass. Classic old school values and attitude.

[fishinmission78]

Same thing with the Power Plant. 15 20 years ago you would be out all night and you might run into one or two guys.
Now the Abercrombie & Fitch posers show up a lot. Boy how things have changed.

[baitstealer]

I hope this doesn't sound like a stupid question. I have heard a lot of times that scouting a spot is good, but is there any way to be more specific? What do you guys look for when you are scouting? Thanks

[fishinmission78]

Some crusty advice, don't know how to make it any simpler. Put down the damn cell phone and fish.

[fishinmission78]

Scouting, you will learn more the more times you are out. For the bay at low tide, look for humps or pieces of structure that rise above others. Look for small depressions or areas of deeper water. Even if they are only 100 feet across they can hold fish at high tide. Basically, you look for the differences in structure each time you are out scouting, and figure out how that plays into fish hanging out to ambush prey.

[cowherder]

Some crusty advice, don't know how to make it any simpler. Put down the damn cell phone and fish.

:clapping::clapping:

[dogfish]

Personally I wish someone would invent a cell phone jammer. When the hordes from NJ and NY come up here in the late spring and summer following cell phone and Fb reports, I wish there was some way you could ride along the CC canal and jam their transmissions. Hardly anyone wants to know the why. They jump from Facebook page to page to find the bite. The way things are going scouting and keeping fishing logs will be as archaic as 8-track players.

[dogfish]

Scouting, you will learn more the more times you are out. Basically, you look for the differences in structure each time you are out scouting, and figure out how that plays into fish hanging out to ambush prey.

Agreed. Structure is always changing. Storms and the winter have a lot to do with it. Certain cuts and holes change and become different. Even fishing something as big as the canal. If you learn where something is submerged by losing a bucktail, you can also find a iolding spot for stripers in the current.

[hookset]

Some crusty advice, don't know how to make it any simpler. Put down the damn cell phone and fish.


:clapping:Five stars for this comment. It is the simplest advice and one that 90% of guys cannot follow.

[hookset]

"No knives to a gun fight." Lots of big blues yesterday. Saw many guys lost fish. 8lb mono isn't gonna cut it with these gators. Gear up accordingly.

[cowherder]

Well said.

[plugcrazy]

When you see someone catching fish in a blitz, like I was, do not crowd up to them and mug them on each side, and then ask them how they are doing. Not a good way to make friends.

[fishinmission78]

^^ yeah, people today want all the glory without doing any of the legwork. How hard is it to find your own fish?

[Monty]

^^ yeah, people today want all the glory without doing any of the legwork. How hard is it to find your own fish?

That is part of the fun.
Exploring new areas, finding fish. Has solitude no value!!!????
At least for me solitude does.

[surferman]

Modern times it is all about fishing in posses. Whad up with that?

[storminsteve]

DONT fillet your fish on your hood!! Unless you're "in the hood" then nobody cares!

[fishinmission78]

Lol

[fishinmission78]

If you are new to the game and see people posting fish on the internet, think before publicly asking them where was it? What beach where you on? Where was this caught? If you can't understand why it's not cool to ask these questions publicly on the internet you deserve not to catch any fish. Jmo

[albiealert]

Well said. Very limited access and some of the rivers that I fish. It's hard to understand why people would want to post pics clearly indicating background. Makes no sense at all.

[CharlieTuna]

Shouldn't some of this be common sense? What happened to fishing that stealth and common sense took a back page to ego and chest pounding?

[rockhopper]

Got chased off the water by lightning last night. Don't mess with it when you are carrying a rod in your hands.

[stripercrazy]

Read this the other day. Just an observation, not about the guys here, but mainly about the internet heros and prostaff braggers:
"telling people how awesome you are on the internet rarely translates to skill with a fishing rod in your hand...."

[buckethead]

After this noreaster is a good idea to walk your local beach at low tide and make the holes again. They will have changed.

[jigfreak]

Read this the other day. Just an observation, not about the guys here, but mainly about the internet heros and prostaff braggers:
"telling people how awesome you are on the internet rarely translates to skill with a fishing rod in your hand...."

Agree 100%

[jigfreak]

Sharpen or change out those rusty hooks gents. Saw a fellow fisherman swing and miss 10 times in a row the other night. There were some nice stripers around. Took a look at his hooks, both were rusty. I gave him a new one for the front and he started catching more and missing less.