Sandy Hook, Fort Hancock issues

[DarkSkies]

The other day I was talking to someone who works there. We talked about budget cuts they had, and how they have to scramble to find funding for some basic stuff.

Don't want to get into specifics, because he really wasn't complaining, we were just passing the time while I was waiting for the weather to turn. We talked about staff cuts, and them needing equipment and not having the $$. They're not raising the rates anytime soon because it's a political issue. But how can you keep things together in a park where you don't have enough revenue coming in?

I fish there at all hours, have no problem coming back to my car ar 2am. Yet they are underfunded in dealing with some burglaries, vandalism, and poaching. Ibsp passes cost $195, weekeknd pass costs something like $25. Some guys I met up there are not happy with the $50 night pass to begin with becasue they remember when it was free. Nothing is free forever when you have buildings to run, need enforcement, and people to do it.

A lot of people might not know that the $50 fee allows you access to all parks in the Gateway system. I've fished all the other ones in NY, great fishing and access, 4 parks for $50, how can you beat that deal?

Assuming there was a future fee increase, it was across the board, not only on the backs of us fishermen, and we received the same service we are getting now, how much more would you be willing to pay for the night fishing pass?

I wouldn't be happy about it, but would pay if I knew the above was taken care of fairly. I love that place, and would do whatever I could to keep it the way it is.

I would pay $100 max, how about you?

[Mike O]

I have been fishing Sandyhook for 30yrs. I also, remember when it was free. I have never heard or seen an incident in the park in all those years nor have I ever seen the NPS patroling the parking lots or the beaches during the night hours for that matter. You could be lying on the beach dead for hours and the only thing that would come along and find you is another fisherman. I fish the same beach consistently between the hours of 3am and sunrise and rarely see anyone with the exception of another fisherman before 5am let alone a park ranger. This is especially true during the fall, winter and early spring. The summer beach fees and the 50 dollar fee that is collected from night fishermen should be more than enough to run the park. What will happen if you have to purchase a saltwater fishing license! Will you still be willing to pay up to 100 dollars to fish SH at night? I for one will not. If the park service is so concerned, they should move the ranger station to the beginning of the park and check to see if undesirables are trying to get in. Not a mile in like it is now.


Mike O

[Mike O]

I just want to re-enforce the fact that that 50 dollars only allows you to park from sunset to sunrise. Unless I'am mistaken, during regular hours during the summer months, you still have to pay the daily fees.

Mike O

[Monty]

I would pay $100.00
Unfortunately the country is in a mess and there is no telling what these people in the government will do. They are irrational, irresponsible and out of touch with the public. More than before.

[DarkSkies]

I have been fishing Sandyhook for 30yrs. I also, remember when it was free. I have never heard or seen an incident in the park in all those years nor have I ever seen the NPS patroling the parking lots or the beaches during the night hours for that matter. You could be lying on the beach dead for hours and the only thing that would come along and find you is another fisherman. I fish the same beach consistently between the hours of 3am and sunrise and rarely see anyone with the exception of another fisherman before 5am let alone a park ranger. This is especially true during the fall, winter and early spring. The summer beach fees and the 50 dollar fee that is collected from night fishermen should be more than enough to run the park. What will happen if you have to purchase a saltwater fishing license! Will you still be willing to pay up to 100 dollars to fish SH at night? I for one will not. If the park service is so concerned, they should move the ranger station to the beginning of the park and check to see if undesirables are trying to get in. Not a mile in like it is now.


Mike O

Mike, everything you said makes sense from theb point of a fisherman. No judgements here, I put this up to get a discussion going and see what the opinions are out there. There are more details behind what I said, but I didn want to put something out there that could get the person who said it in trouble. From what I undertstand, there have been personnel cuts, can't enforce at night if you have less manpower.

I think you get pms at 25 posts, pm me then for more details.

I remember about 5-7 years ago when they had the burned out car sitting at the front lot there for about 3 months. A lot could be done better. I put this up to try to get opinions about what people feel really needs imporovement there, and maybe someone over there might want to look at these issues somewhere down the road.

[cowherder]

I think they could to a better job of checking the guys keeping shorts. How they do it is bury them in the sand, and put them in the cooler when they leave. They can always say"that's not mine" when the rangers come by then. :kooky:

[vpass]

I would pay $100. I spend more time hour wise in sandy hook then in my own backyard.:)

[surfwalker]

Myself, like Mike O have been going to the Hook for years. I have probably stepped on my own footprints a thousand times from years prior. I also remember when a daily pass or a monthly pass was free. But like you said, times change. I paid the $25 when it first started and then again when they jacked it up to $50(not happily). I guess I'll pay whatever they charge, my addiction is strong and I enjoy the Hook. I have only had one incident on the beach in the middle of the night with a drunk non fisherman. I usually plug the dark solo and it is refreshing to see a 4 x 4 or ATV comming down the beach at early hours, but they are few and far between(seen maybe 5 times over the years), plus they travel so fast that there's no way they could stop if you needed help. The Fishing Beach sign used to say ONLY, but they did away with that, saying that they would have to give everyone their own beach then-surfers, wind surfers and others. When the parking lot washed away at South Beach, they didn't do anything to accomodate us, took a long time just to get a Mr. John. I'm not happy about paying, but like anything that they can charge you for, they will. The only thing is that I don't think that the money collected from bathers and fisherman is solely put back into the park. I like the idea of the Ranger Station being moved to the front of the park. As far as people keeping shorts, there's just not ever enough law enforcement to do this, all we can do is report it and hope the authorities follow up if possible. Sorry for the long rant, but I guess I would pay the fees, even though I have not seen any improvement since the free times.

[clamchucker]

What will happen if you have to purchase a saltwater fishing license! Will you still be willing to pay up to 100 dollars to fish SH at night? I for one will not. If the park service is so concerned, they should move the ranger station to the beginning of the park and check to see if undesirables are trying to get in. Not a mile in like it is now.


Mike O


I don't fish Sandy Hook at night much so I have no need for the night pass. I fish Island Beach more and can tell you for the amount of people that use that place, you don't see that many rangers during off peak times either. They did stir some things up by saying you have to be engaged in fishing at night. I think too many familes were taking advantage and camping there for days at a time without fishing.

Island Beach, $200. For that amount you can drive on the beach. $100 might be a fair fee for Sandy Hook, but no more. My biggest gripe when they raise these piices, charge us fees on anything, or put licenses on the table is they waste so much. It doesn't seem to benefit us as fisherman. If that were different, I might feel differently. I have learned there is a big difference between what a politician says, and what they do.

Have you seen the way the new Highlands bridge is shaping up? I think once it's done we will lose a lot of parking space where we used to park for the first beach. The ranger station will be a much closer to the entrance then, so maybe your wish will be granted, Mike.

[gjb1969]

nothing i do not fish there anymore now if i am with someone and they want to go there i am stuck i lost intrest in that place for me its not a place i like when i was a kid i did real good there now its not in my top ten so for me pay money to fish ther at night no way :don't know why:

[ledhead36]

Saw this interesting article on Sandy Hook.

New Jersey Sandy Hook Fans Cheer Credit Crisis Choking Project
2008-12-01 05:02:00.0 GMT


By Chris Dolmetsch
Dec. 1 (Bloomberg) -- For 75 years, Fort Hancock
defended New York Harbor from foreign invaders with
battlements at the tip of New Jersey’s Sandy Hook
peninsula.

The former U.S. Army fort’s historic structures now
sit defenseless against the elements, its row of bayfront
officers’ quarters mostly abandoned and decrepit, with
broken windows, sinking roofs and unstable porches.
National Park Service efforts to get a developer to
refurbish the buildings have been stalled for years by
legal challenges from activists who don’t want the area
overly commercialized. The opponents may be ready to give
up, betting that the global credit crisis will do the job
for them.

“With the financial market being what it is, I don’t
know who’s going to loan money on that project,” said
James Coleman, 84, a former judge and state assemblyman who
is secretary of Save Sandy Hook, a nonprofit group that
sued to stop the plan.

The developer, James Wassel, said he’s confident that
he can secure financing for his $75 million proposal to
create a “sophisticated, state-of-the-art research office
and educational facility and corporate retreat” with inns
and restaurants. He declined to identify potential partners
or provide financing details until he submits his funding
plan.
“We’re not in the best financing market right now,”
said Wassel, 58. “Maybe our opponents think they’ve won.”

‘Fairy Godmother’

Save Sandy Hook is ready to declare victory.
“For nine years, he hasn’t had the money,” Coleman
said. “I don’t know why there would be some fairy
godmother waving a wand and giving him the money now.”
Sandy Hook is a windswept, 7-mile (11-kilometer)
peninsula at the northern tip of the New Jersey coast. More
than 8,000 people sometimes pack “the Hook” on summer
weekends, including some who take the 45-minute ferry ride
from Manhattan.

The peninsula is home to the U.S.’s oldest working
lighthouse and the East Coast’s biggest nude beach, along
with a 14-mile shoreline for the clothed. The bay side is
popular for fishing and windsurfing.
Few visitors venture to Fort Hancock, which can
resemble a ghost town. About two dozen buildings are
occupied, including a former barracks housing the National
Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s James J. Howard
Marine Sciences Laboratory.

1812 Defenses

Sandy Hook was identified as having military
importance early in U.S. history. A post was built there
during the War of 1812 after a lack of fortifications on
the peninsula allowed the British to occupy New York City
during the Revolutionary War. The Army constructed Fort
Hancock in the 1890s.

The fort guarded the harbor from German U-boats during
World War II. Nike missiles, designed to destroy warplanes
before reaching the U.S., were installed there in 1954.
After intercontinental ballistic missiles made Nikes
obsolete, the Army closed the base in 1974 and transferred
it to the park service, abandoning more than 200
structures.
The park service planned to rehabilitate 100
structures as long ago as 1979 but couldn’t secure federal
funding.

“It became very obvious to us in the National Park
Service that preservation and protection of our national
resources couldn’t just happen with government dollars,”
said Dave Avrin, Sandy Hook’s superintendent.

Developer Search

In 1999, the service asked developers for proposals to
lease and refurbish the buildings. It received 22 bids, and
in 2001 signed a letter of intent with Wassel’s firm. Three
years later, the service awarded it a 60-year lease to
rehabilitate 36 structures.

Save Sandy Hook -- led by Coleman and his wife, Judith
Stanley Coleman -- sued to stop the project, saying the
plan would create a “thinly veiled corporate office park”
resulting in “crass commercialization.” The group argued
that Wassel hadn’t shown he had the money and that the
lease violated environmental and historic-preservation
laws.

A U.S. district judge in Trenton dismissed the suit in
July 2006 and an amended complaint in September 2007,
saying the lease wasn’t “arbitrary, capricious, an abuse
of discretion, or contrary to any law.”
The opponents appealed to the Third Circuit Court of
Appeals in Philadelphia, which rejected their arguments in
September.

Ninety-Day Deadline

The legal challenge is likely to end Christmas Day,
with the expiration of a U.S. Supreme Court appeal deadline
that the opponents say they will probably let pass, said
Lawrence Luttrell, a lawyer for Save Sandy Hook. After the
final appeal, Wassel has 90 days to prove he can raise the
money, according to a June letter to him from the Interior
Department.

Wassel has renovated some buildings, including the
fort headquarters, a theater and a chapel on the edge of
Sandy Hook Bay that will be used for weddings and other
events.
“We never believed it was about right and wrong,”
Wassel said. “We believed it was about how long this group
would hold us up. They didn’t want anything to happen out
here.”

Wassel said he has some tenants lined up, including
Brookdale Community College and Rutgers University, which
plan an oceanic education and research center.
For the opponents, appealing would only “give further
life to what we believe is an otherwise doomed project,”
Luttrell said.

[bababooey]

They are trying to get some federal money for Fort Hancock. Maybe that will make things better.





CONGRESSMAN FRANK PALLONE, JR.
Sixth District of New Jersey

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

CONTACT: Andrew Souvall/Tali Israeli
March 11, 2009


PALLONE REQUESTS FUNDS FROM RECOVERY ACT TO RESTORE BUILDINGS AT FORT HANCOCK

Washington, D.C. --- U.S. Rep. Frank Pallone, Jr. (D-NJ) sent the following letter today to the National Park Service seeking funds from the Economic Recovery and Reinvestment Act to restore Fort Hancock's history buildings. The law included $589 million for the National Park Service for the repair of historical resources.

Pallone wrote: "The funds available through the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act are a tremendous opportunity to finally turn the page in what has been a process full of setbacks. I encourage the National Park Service to immediately request the appropriate funds to begin the restoration of the historic buildings at Fort Hancock."

March 11, 2009

Ms. Mary A. Bomar
Director
National Park Service

1849 C Street NW
Washington, DC 20240

Dear Ms. Bomar:

I am writing to request that the National Park Service (NPS) seek economic recovery funds to restore Fort Hancock's historic buildings at the Sandy Hook Unit of Gateway National Recreation Area. Under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, the NPS has access to $589 million provided for the repair of historical resources within the system.

Fort Hancock is a former United States Army fort located in Middletown Township in Monmouth County, along the Atlantic coast of eastern New Jersey. The Fort has tremendous historical significance to the state of New Jersey and its historic integrity should be preserved.

Unfortunately, the NPS has entered into a lease agreement with Sandy Hook Partners (SHP) to redevelop Fort Hancock. Under the terms of the lease, SHP, which is owned by Mr. James Wassel, agreed to renovate 36 of Fort Hancock's 100 buildings. The conceptual plans indicated that redevelopment would include the opening of private businesses such as bed and breakfasts and cafes in the renovated buildings. It was this over-commercialization of the Fort that initially led me to oppose the plan.

There have been serious questions regarding Mr. Wassel's ability to produce the necessary funds to move forward with the three-phase project. Those fears have been realized over the last four years as NPS has granted Mr. Wassel repeated lease extensions due to SHP's lack of financial resources. The fact that SHP has consistently been unable to show proof of financing, something that should have been required by NPS before his lease was initially extended, should be enough for NPS to cancel the current lease.

The funds available through the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act are a tremendous opportunity to finally turn the page in what has been a process full of setbacks. I encourage the National Park Service to immediately request the appropriate funds to begin the restoration of the historic buildings at Fort Hancock.

I appreciate your prompt attention to this matter, and should you require any further information from my staff or me, please do not hesitate to contact my office.


Sincerely,

FRANK PALLONE, JR.

Member of Congress

[jigfreak]

Get ready guys, rumor has it the night sticker is going to $100.

[hookset]

Can't believe they are giving a guy 12k to clear that poison ivy. 12 grand.
Give me 4000 and pay for the spectracide and I'll do it.


http://www.nj.com/monmouth/index.ssf/2013/07/goats_brought_in_to_rid_fort_hancock_of_poison_ivy _invasion.html

Goats to be brought in to rid Fort Hancock of poison ivy invasion


http://imgick.nj.com/home/njo-media/width620/img/monmouth_impact/photo/13132367-mmmain.jpg

Poison ivy is a major problem at Sandy Hook's Fort Hancock. The Sandy Hook Foundation is spending about $12,000 to use about two dozen goats to clear the site to make it more accessible to the public. (John O'Boyle/The Star-Ledger)

By The Associated Press (http://connect.nj.com/user/njoapnews/posts.html)The Associated Press
on July 24, 2013 at 9:11 AM

View/Post Comments (http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/#comments)
http://ads.nj.com/RealMedia/ads/adstream_lx.ads/www.nj.com/monmouth/2013/07/goats_brought_in_to_rid_fort_hancock_of_poison_ivy _invasion.html/2071034184/StoryAd/NJONLINE/default/empty.gif/72545a716946487765514d4142333739?&tag0=monmouth-county&tag1=sandy-hook (http://ads.nj.com/RealMedia/ads/click_lx.ads/www.nj.com/monmouth/2013/07/goats_brought_in_to_rid_fort_hancock_of_poison_ivy _invasion.html/2071034184/StoryAd/NJONLINE/default/empty.gif/72545a716946487765514d4142333739)

SANDY HOOK (http://nj.com/middletown) — Eleven Nubian goats from upstate New York are the first line of defense to save New Jersey's historic Fort Hancock from a poison ivy invasion.
The plants have overtaken the Sandy Hook mortar battery that defended New York Harbor during World War II.
Park Ranger Tom Hoffman tells the Asbury Park Press (http://on.app.com/1bMpHvr)the six-acre site should have been named "Poison Ivy National Monument."
The Sandy Hook Foundation is paying Larry Cihanek of Rhinebeck, N.Y., about $12,000 to use about two dozen goats to clear the site to make it more accessible to the public.
Cihanek says it's the densest concentration of poison ivy that he's ever seen.

[Monty]

???

This makes perfect sense.

Enter Eco-Goats!

When it comes to clearing unwanted vegetation, goats can provide an ideal alternative to machines and herbicides. They graze in places that mowers can't reach and humans don't want to go (yes, they love Poison Ivy). In fact, goats eat a wide range of unwanted vegetation, which on the East Coast include Kudzu, Oriental Bittersweet, Ailanthus, Multiflora Rose, Japanese Honeysuckle, Mile-A-Minute and more.

Goats are agile and light on their feet, so they can be gentler than machinery when working on historical sites and other areas that need special consideration.

Article here:
http://www.eco-goats.com/why-goats.shtml


I'm going to see if I can get a few neighbors together and we can get a neighborhood goat :idea:

Or maybe a SrtipersandAnglers Goat, we can pass it around :idea::idea:

:HappyWave:

[buckethead]

I'm going to see if I can get a few neighbors together and we can get a neighborhood goat[/B] :idea:

Or maybe a SrtipersandAnglers Goat, we can pass it around :idea::idea:

:HappyWave:

Sorry monty I wasn't sure by your statement whether you agree with the goats or not.
Here is the latest update.



"Can the goats really do the job?Monmouth County Agricultural Agent Bill Sciarappa said herbicides such as Roundup are an inexpensive and effective way to permanently kill poison ivy, but many people today are leery about using them in backyards and public places.
While goats will quickly gobble up poison ivy, he said, they don’t eat the roots, which allows the plants to grow back. Using goats over an extended period, however, will eventually starve the plant of the energy it needs to survive, he said.
“So a persistent program of goats should work,” Sciarappa said.
The 11 goats that arrived Tuesday are the vanguard of a herd that will total about two dozen goats by the end of the week, Cihanek said.
To see them tear into a stand of poison ivy, one would think the plant’s waxy leaves were as delectable as a fresh mescalin salad, tossed with feta cheese and a drizzle of vinaigrette.
Cihanek said the goats are just as enthusiastic about maple leaves, knotweed, and virtually anything with thorns.
The mortar battery job, however, may be the goats’ biggest challenge yet.
“This hill has the densest concentration of poison ivy of any place I’ve ever been,” Cihanek marveled."

http://tracking.si.com/2013/08/05/bi...spensions-mlb/ (http://tracking.si.com/2013/08/05/biogenesis-suspensions-mlb/)




I feel this is a big waste of taxpayer money. Good for the goat guy because they will need to come to the hook every year at 12k per season to really make a dent in the poison ivy. As the article points out they don't eat the roots just the leaves. So they will have to keep doing it. I know poison is not great but there is a lot of sand at the hook and I feel spraying the plants would not be that harmgful. They would die quickly and any small remnants left would settle into the sand. It is no more pesticide than they would be using at any golf course or country club to kill the ivy in those specific areas.
Poor idea overall in my opinion. You get into a self-perpetuating loop where the goats are used forever and the ivy problem is not really solved.
Kind of like monmouth beach replenishment - does anyone really feel that project has been effective? Hell no.

[captnemo]

There was an article in sundays star ledger. Tomorrow is the deadline for the new proposals for Ft Hancock