Spotburn thread

[ledhead36]

I think the majority of us have been fishing for years and spot burning really :burn: us up. I have seen some talk lately at other places where people are complaining about not giving up the info.

We have taken the time to learn the areas, done our homework by looking during low tide, and been successful at our finds. Why would anyone want to put that information out there for the lazy arses who want to let us do the work and them pull in the cows?

[SharkHart]

You can drive yourself crazy trying to get those to understand. The lazy ones outweigh the ones who do their work 25 to 1. On those other place, man they got one fish and it did a 5 website publicity tour!! People he fished with from another place were vocal about the place to which is private property which tolerates some fishing if it doesnt get out of control so its just dumb bringing added attention to it.

Everyone goes through and evolution though, if something is given to them without work they give it right away too and it goes on an on, after they go fishing a few times and its elbow to elbow and they cant get in they eventually learn and change

[dogfish]

We have taken the time to learn the areas, done our homework by scouting during low tide, and been successful at our finds. Why would anyone want to put that information out there for the lazy bums who want to let us do the work and them pull in the cows?


Right on, it's taken me years to become better, why would I want to give that all away? A lot of new guys want to be a "champeen surfcaster" in 1 year or less. Pay your dues. When guys see you out there often enough, they'll help, a little at a time. That's the way I do it.

[DarkSkies]

I think there are a few different ways of looking at it. Neither extreme makes sense. There was another site I used to post on. A guy I met at the Brookhaven meeting was labeled a troublemaker because a father was asking for places to take his kids fishin for snappers. Guys jumped all over the post saying it was spot burning.

So the guy, we'll call him Aqualung :HappyWave:posted a bunch of locations where the Dad could take his kids fishing. I didn't see anything wrong with that, gave the guy respect for standiing up to the rants.

On another site, their official policy is:

"Spot burning is not an issue here, TALKING or COMPLAINING about it is, All posts COMPLAINING about spot burning will be deleted."
You gotta be frikkin kiddin me, man. :kooky: :2flip:

Their justification for this policy is that "fish move". That may be true, but I could give you a handful of locations where there were fish last year for weeks at a time. And SharkHart might have been referring to an old reliable place where you can catch fish year round, depending on the water temp. So why would you want to potentially alert thousands of people to these locations? Isn't it irresponsible to not take into account that internet lurkers are reading the posts, and why would you want to turn all these people onto a location with limited capacity? :don't know why:

I like what ya said here, Shark :thumbsup:
"Everyone goes through and evolution though, if something is given to them without work they give it right away too and it goes on an on, after they go fishing a few times and its elbow to elbow and they cant get in they eventually learn and change."


Either it's elbow to elbow, or you lose access, which is what happened when that guy took a crap in the priest's bathroom at St Alphonse's. We lost that spot because too many guys were converging on it with no respect to the surroundings.

[bababooey]

It's almost as bad in the boating world, but not quite. I have friends who went to Block Island for the codfishing. They described a parking lot of boats up there. I think it's reasonable that we should all give each other a little breathing room, and agree that being too chatty with locations doesn't help. Just my .02.

[DarkSkies]

Any of you who knew me on the internet 2 years ago know that I got into it with quite a few people about this. It's serious to me because I love to fish so much.

I realize I used to go about it all wrong. Yelling at someone telling them how their thinking is short-sighted wins you no prizes, and hardly ever gets your point across effectively. IMO Joe had a good point here when he set up those "please don't spotburn" paragraphs at the beginning of the weekly fishin reports. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon3.gif

What started this thread in my mind was when I saw where the owner of another site set up a thread asking people not to spotburn. This was in response to blatant spotburning in the Hudson River. Striperjim, the owner and a guy I admire, asked people to consider the effects of spotburning key Hudson shore areas on the internet. Boat guys have many choices. However, if you fish from shore and you want to increase your chances of catching, there are only a few key legal spots where fish gravitate to that have current .

He went on to say PM's detailing info are fine, he merely had an issue with the public posts available to everyone to look at. For this he was accused of being selfish or elitist.

So I'm asking for opinions here, postitive or negative, you're entitled to your opinion, let's hear it. :plastered:

[DarkSkies]

Here's a general list of other things I've seen on other sites regarding spotburning. Feel free to share your own comments and opinions, or to comment on any of these.

I'm most interested in hearing Why or Why not you feel the way you do? Any general examples you can bring to this discussion would be a great way to illustrate your point. thanks, guys.



1. Fish move, they don't stay in the same place from one day to the next.
I know of 6 places in Moco alone where they were there every day, or came in every day at different times, or were there every night. Why would someone want to share this with the internet world? :beatin:


2. Spot burning is nothing to worry about, most of those places are well-known already, those spots have already been burnt.
The issue with that statement is that the internet is the real-time medium of exchange in the times we live in. If someone is murdered in Budapest, we can know about it minutes later on the internet. Info speads like lightning.
3. What's the harm of talking about it in the open, it's just a few friends here, why be so selfish with the info?

4. "Spot burning is not an issue here, but complaining about it is. Any posts here complaining about spot-burning will be deleted, and the complainer may be removed from the site. "
(This is a real quote from a popular site, guys, un-believable. :kooky:)

5. Spot burning is not OUR fault, it's gotten bad because of the OTHER guys...(boats, newspapers, fishing magazines, fishing shows, etc)
Pass the buck and put the blame on others instead of working to minimize the problem, great concept. :thumbsup:

6. You're upset at us passing out information, we just want to see our friends catch fish, why do you need to be selfish with the info?
Ever heard of PM's? http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon3.gif

7. What's the use, it will only get worse anyway. There's nothing we can do about it, why try?
This is a similar argument advanced as to why the beaches will always have trash on them, so why bother?

8.
9.
10.

[seamonkey]

Spotburning should not be tolerated. When the action is on the "phone a friend" can really suck. :beatin:

I'm out on the surf reeling in fish and the next thing I know a guy is phoning a friend. Then 10 people appear plus their friends. :burn:

[surfwalker]

Maybe I'm totally off base on this, but I don't depend on too many reports to base where I'll be plugging. I believe that you make your own reports by scouting areas and see what it produces, it's more satisfying. We all know what type of water has the better chance of catching and these spots will always be crowded. But to specifically name a spot I think is wrong, to me. To name spots only makes that area more congested and harder to work, not much fun. You have to remember that on here you're not talking one on one, but thousands of eyes are reading these spots. As far as cell phones, well, what can you do? I shy away from crowded areas, I don't enjoy horseing a Bass across the water as not to tangle with the inconsiderate guy next to me that doesn't pull up. I don't like people casting over my head. I don't own the beach, so I just move on and find my own spots. The fish don't stay in one place all the time. So, spot burning is a sore spot for me, I don't like it. Get out and learn your own spots and enjoy them. Every year the pressure is getting greater and greater in our areas.

[jimbob]

I agree with Surfwalker, I have spent a lot of time cultivating some of my spots I don't usually see anyone when I go there its only a matter of time till someone else finds these spots. you don't want to have someone tell everyone about it and make it sooner. There are a lot of spots that I used to fish alone that are so crowded now that I have not fished there in years. My best spots are those that are a long walk from my truck, not too many people will make the effort to go there. Why would anyone want to spotburn in the first place, What would be the advantage?

[jonthepain]

Most of my surffishing has been done pre-cell phone and pre-internet. And it always amazed me how quick the beach would fill up as soon as I started catching fish.

I can't imagine why anyone in their right mind would broadcast to the world where the fish are at. I mean, back in the day, my fishing buddies and I wouldn't even tell our close friends where we had been having success. It only takes one yahoo to ruin it for everybody by blabbing in the bar about the great spot where they (or their pal) pulled in a coupla 15#ers the night before.

Guaranteed that spot would be unfishable for years after that.

We were more about disinformation. If somebody asked, "where'd ya get 'em?", we'd crook a finger in our cheek and say "right there."

On the beach, if some googan asked, "whatcha catchin em on?" we'd say, "Baloney." "Baloney?" "yep. ran outta cheese."

if they stood there for a while, watching our lines, eventually we'd take a long pull on the flask and say, "gotta keep it fresh, though." and then pointedly NOT check our bait.

[stripermania]

Too many people depend on reports. Funny thing about fishing is that one day it is great and the next day it's off. I like to fish alone and find my own spots.

Let the spotburners go with the crowd.

[stormchaser]

I fish LI, there is a site out here, (named after a weather pattern), that basically paints a map to where they caught fish. Why can't they be a little more vague? If people are catching fish, that's fine I want to know that. I don't have to know where, like surfwalker and others said, make your own reports.

[albiealert]

In Connecticut there is no such thing as spot burning because there are no spots. ;) Seriously I think everyone could be a little more cautious. We have almost no access here, so guys who want to keep fishing are tight-lipped.

[clamchucker]

Dark, 20 years ago we didn't have this problem. The guys who fished an area kept to tnemselves or the groups of people they fished with. Now ego has gotten into the equation, and people want to be a hero by telling everyone the exact location where the fish are. Low self-esteem probably comes into play here, who knows?

[stormchaser]

Some good points, I think ego is involved. Otherwise guys would just keep it quiet.

[pescador29]

its very crowded where I fish, and darkskies explained it to me why. i will say staten island now, i understand, you are right. too much talk talk on the computer. the people on the computer are not all your friends.

[Rip-Plugger]

I have to say that I agree with NOT burning a spot unless you mention a huge area where one must do some walking or experiment.
I put in my time for 31 years now and I don't share info with anyone but my partner and sometimes not even with him,,based on MY time spent doing recon.
time is more valuable than money so I put it's value at the pont it should be.I spend time out there learning patterns,losing sleep,spending money on fuel so,I see it as my reward for doing recon and getting the patterns down.
I don't share that info although I will still fish with someone.
thats just MHO and I stick to it!


R-P

[Rip-Plugger]

Some good points, I think ego is involved. Otherwise guys would just keep it quiet.

you are right SC,I catch a 30lber on wood,I don't need to tell,I take a picture and add it to my collection,heck,last year I caught a few good fish and wrote it in my logbook and my partner didn't even know till I read it to him a few days ago.

most times I don't tell anyone,if they ask what I'm catching I simply say,ahh,I'm getting a few here/there.


R-P

[paumanok]

I work hard for my special spots. I like to share them. Although, I do it cagily. I do tend to be selective about who I share them with.

One rule of thumb is to feel a guy out. If he seems knowledgeable, if it's clear he's "put in his time," I might talk generically about a particular stage of the tide on a particular type of structure. If I detect a glint of recognition in his eye, I might share an actual spot.

Another rule: if an angler gives up a spot to me that I didn't know of (if it wasn't an obvious spot, one that I merely hadn't gotten around to yet--but one I'm genuinely surprised about), I'll likely try to give him a heads up about one of mine.

On the other hand, there's that guy down the beach with a fly rod who clearly doesn't have much of a clue. He saunters by, crestfallen, a pleading look in his eyes. He stops to chat. Again, I'll try to size him up. If he's just toolin' around, then it's just time for him to go home. Good-bye. But if he seems in earnest, I'll show him a spot (some structure, a rip, a seam...) in the immediate area and explain how I might fish it. But I'll always leave out a few key elements. "Those," I'll say, "are the things you learn by putting in the time."

I won't burn special spots, but I don't hesitate to help someone learn how to find them on his (or her) own. This game of fishing is pretty much all about that: learning and teaching and learning some more.

[surferman]

Are the locals more apt to keep quiet about their spots than those who come from far away? I know I pretty much keep my mouth closed.

[porgy75]

I am new to the game and have spent much time so far learning to read the beaches. I also watch people fish, trying to learn what bait is best to use and what plugs.

I have found that fisherman are good guys and answer most of my questions. That is one of the best things about this site. Everyone is friendly and glad to answer a question or two.

Hopefully by the end of the year I will have "put in my time" and will have become knowledgeable about where I think good spots are. I don't think I would be a spotburner.

http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/misc/progress.gif

[nitestrikes]

Alright, I kept quiet enough on this, you guys are all on the $$. :clapping::clapping::clapping: There is another site where it's run by a corporation, the owner owns some kind of an internet search site and has been buying up fishing sites to fill in his portfolio, how quaint. I don't think the owner cares anything about fishing, for him it's all about the advertising dollars.

They post specific spots all the time, and you guys who fish the north shore know how tough access is. To be fair, I'll first post some of the good posts, and then some of the MOD posts. I think he must pay the mods serious money, otherwise how could they be so blind about spot burning?? :don't know why:


"Good posts"

1. Here we go again! Someone who shall remain nameless recently posted about bass action at a spot on the east end. Now this spot is small and can handle a few guys, if they all work together, since you need a resident permit and it's early in the season all has been well. Now this joker has taken it upon himself to broadcast this action online. Why do people do this? Gor the 5th time I am asking the powers that be on this site to either eliminate the reports section altogether or at least make it impossible to specificly name a location. I know that the report section generates advertising $$$, but give me a break. The last thing we need here is a crowd of out of towners prowling around the area, without this post, they wouldn't even know about it, please no burning spots!http://www.noreast.com/discussion/images/post_icons/pissed.gif



2. I agree to some extent with you. I don't mind the out of towners if they found the spot from scouting the area and realizing that they have found a good spot to fish. I do mind the spot burning. I just finished reading a few reports that will be unnamed and I see a lot of people using exact neames of beaches they are fishing that are not known to everybody. Most people do a lot of scouting to find places to fish that they know a lot of others will not be at and then people who don't know any better ruin those spots and cause more work for the people that are actually out doing the scouting. I don't mind if a general area is referred to because it helps people track where the migrating fish are expecially in the spring but please do not use specific beach names for beaches that are not well known to others.
Major places are ok to name but don't give the exact cooridinates of where you are fishing because then the spot won't be available the next time you want to go there. Seems pretty common sense to me.









3. Every year its the same routine with this subject. Some of you will never get it, continue to post and "help" other anglers, with out regard for the many you are hurting in the process. You guys just don't get it but each year one or two more do and that is what matters. All you self righteous guys who firmly believe you have a right to post specifics if you want simply don't understand the effects it has. So be it. But understand the other side of the argument as far as surf casters are concerned. Especially the boat guys who feel it is essential to weigh in on the subject in a surf forum.

The victories in this are small but worthwhile. Each person who learns to shut their trap does so when they climb another rung in the ranks of surf casting.

[nitestrikes]

"lame posts"


1. If I want to post exact locations of where I cought fish,GD it thats just what I'm going to do! Theres no law against it. Whats wrong with helping out another fisherman? Is under the light house in Montauk in the fall spot burning? Is Demo spot burning? I think some guys here have to grow up and get a job so they can fish any time they want and woun't have to worry about crowds.



2. I've explained why I'm pulling the plug on these topics several times already. I won't do it again. If you don't understand it, then I can't help you. And I certainly don't recall threatening anybody.

Surf fishing board = spots = the only reason people come here.

Please, feel free to test that theory at any of the other well known sites. Remember, nobody is forcing anybody to be here.

[CharlieTuna]

You won't hear spot burning from these lips. I have painstakingly studied all of my spots. I don't mind bring a buddy along every now and then but I would never put it on the web.

[wish4fish]

"There's a bait shop owner who has been posting videos like crazy.

I salute his enthusiasm, (and his wish to increase his bait and tackle sales) but he's not being careful with the background. There were 50 guys in one spot today based on what they saw in his videos. I got a couple calls from different groups of guys who aren't comfortable complaining about this publically, but they were irritated nonetheless.

I'm asking everyone to think before they point that video camera. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon3.gif

If you can point a camera, you theoretically have enough intelligence to point it towards the ground, and NOT focus on the surrounding scenery, when scenery shots would drive too many people to one place. People are smart, they know how to recognize landmarks. :learn:

I don't know about you other guys out there, but I'm very protective of the sites I fish, and I won't burn them to pull more members here, be more popular, or whatever. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.gif

I don't need more crowds at the spots I fish at. I feel very strongly about this."




dark this was in your spotburn video thread, i copied it. the dude is doin it again, he cant help himself, what a doosh! :burn: :2flip:
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[wish4fish]

heres another one, he should never have put that camera on those houses, anyone knows that spot, where's his brain? eff u dude!!!:2flip: i will never buy bait at your crappy shop!
zM7hyBOT6CA




heres the right way to do it the guy is on a bridge but you don't see anything byt the fish. the fish is the video tackle shop doosh, NOT the houses, or the bridge, or the SPOT!!!!!! some people don't get it, that tackle shop guy doesn't have to fish there, what a tool!
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[bababooey]

If you wouldn't mind hearing a boater's perspective, I have some input. On some of the websites you will find a high concentration of boaters. Report a good catch out there, and you will have all sorts of "friends" PMing you for the GPS coordinates. Half of these guys don't want to work for the catches, and I don't answer them. I don't mind giving up a few numbers to my friends, but it's a 2 way street. I can't stand the guys who expect everyone to share with them, What are they bringing to table? :huh:

[i bd fossil]

Not wanting to be rude, BUT;; How many of the people who complain about spot burning are the same ones who in the past who gave away the exact location where they caught that monster they couldn't stop talking about? Then got upset because other people show up at that spot and start to complain! Also as has been said there are less and less places to fish along with more people who want to fish, do the math. jmo

[Frankiesurf]

Nice video. Are these guys afraid of touching fish or do they just like standing on their guts?

[DarkSkies]

Here's a general list of other things I've seen on other sites regarding spotburning.




2. Spot burning is nothing to worry about, most of those places are well-known already, those spots have already been burnt.
The issue with that statement is that the internet is the real-time medium of exchange in the times we live in. If someone is murdered in Budapest, we can know about it minutes later on the internet. Info speads like lightning.

4. "Spot burning is not an issue here, but complaining about it is. Any posts here complaining about spot-burning will be deleted, and the complainer may be removed from the site. "
(This is a real quote from a popular site, guys, un-believable. :kooky:)



OK so now we have a 2nd site out there that IMO seems to condone spot-burning, or at least publically claims it's not an issue for them.

When many sites are becoming more understanding of the Access problems and issues surf fishermen face, there are at least 2 out there that seem to be going in the opposite direction, and seemingly equate giving out explicit reports with increased membership and ad dollars. :beatin:

To some of these sites out there, it seems the ad dollars and membership numbers are more important than the damage from disrespectful fishermen, littering, and the aggravation of the neighbors who live in those areas.

I'm posting the following exchange I had with a Moderator from another site. Please don't attack or criticize this guy. He's just doing his job, and following orders from above. I believe him to be a good guy, and have had several decent online conversations with him since this original PM. :thumbsup:

I edited out some parts so people wouldn't recognize this particular moderator.

However, the issue is that management seems to condone spot burning here, without recognizing all the potential applications and collateral damage to the spot, and the neighbors. This is a terrible position to take, IMO. Nothing can be done about it, The mighty ad dollar reigns supreme once again.http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.gif


The PM's:

"You can not post to the "Posted Report Comments and Questions" because a moderator has banned you from doing so."

Hey ** what's up. I got the above message, and wondered why I was banned from posting and for how long?

I thought my comments were honest and based in reality. There was no profanity in there, or anything that put the guy down. They were simply honest comments addressing the problems we as surf fishermen have when a site published the exact locations a decent fish is caught.

There were other guys who live in that area nicely trying to say the same thing I said, and I see you deleted their posts as well.

I'm wondering if people who live in an area, and see the results of spot burning, voice their objective opinion, why you would be so quick to censor it on your site, and not try to allow their respectful comments, or at least address them so the whole fishing community would benefit?

I wonder if you fish the surf, or if you do more of your fishing from a boat? For surf guys, and people who live in those neighborhoods, it is a big issue that won't go away.. Trash, littering, and disrespect by anonymous fishermen is getting out of hand.

I am sure you can see by the closures at places like Brookhaven that when it gets out of hand the residents unite and find all sorts of loopholes to restrict access.

Therefore, I'm wondering why you guys seem to stifle any dialogue about this. Eventually it will cause more harm than good by ignoring it. So I'm wondering why you made the decisions you made to delete quite a few posts that were merely pointing out the difficulty the residents up there have had with various fishermen?

OK so you decided to delete my post, but banning me from posting? I think that's unreasonable. I try my best to be positive, say nice things about the reports, and speak honestly, and diplomatically. Would appreciate an explanation, thanks. DarkSkies


His reply:

No need to type a long PM to me about your " issues" in the surf community, they are all well too known by all us mods. The issue of spot burning is a non-issue as far as * is concerned, so that is all I, and the membership here, needs to know...

Frankly, it is irrelevant what type of fishing I personally do. * has it's guidelines that you and every other member agreed to abide by when you registered. I don't have to be a surf fisherman to see when those guidelines are violated. ..... Makes me wonder why some of your surf brethren are even on this site,all they ever do is complain about *.

You guys just have to accept that * is not going to change it's policies. The owners of this site have been running things this way for some time, and if it were so terrible, we wouldn't have well over 50,000 registered members, plus advertisers from all over the country.

[DarkSkies]

Nice video. Are these guys afraid of touching fish or do they just like standing on their guts?

I agree, Frankie. Sometimes I'll see certain guys fishing and wonder why they bother? :don't know why: Won't handle or touch a fish, wearing the rubber gloves, throwing the rubber gloves on the ground instead of the garbage when they're finished, and lazily kicking a fish back in the water because they don't want to get their hands wet or touched by fish slime? :kooky:

But that's for another thread, don't want to hijack the focus here. ;)

[plugcrazy]

Nothing can be done about it, The mighty ad dollar reigns supreme once again.http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.gif




America the land of opportunity, where advertising money is the opium.:kooky:

[jimbob]

Spot burning is bad enough, but censorship of ideas within a group of fishermen is a bad thing. What is this, China or Iran?

[wish4fish]

with this report the guy might have as well painted a map, ***? :burn:


"The bass bite in the back continues to be good mostly schoolies on small plastic's and mambo's.The * has been a good spot,also behind the *.there is a nice access area to launch a yak right across the street from *. This is the time of year to fish back there ,lots a fish with a few 20-pounders mixed in u just have to put alot of time in back there."

[DarkSkies]

[4. "Spot burning is not an issue here, but complaining about it is. Any posts here complaining about spot-burning will be deleted, and the complainer may be removed from the site. "]


For a whole week now, the site above, known by the editing policy I noted in bold, has been letting the members reports name various towns, streets, and specific locations in Ocean county, NJ. In several instances these were small towns with limited parking and small streets. There is public access, but access can easily be lost if hordes of people converge upon one area because of an internet report. People have been sending me the links to those reports.

Here's one report I wrote a reply to. It was moderated, and my reply deleted by the moderator except for the first 2 lines. :2flip: :D( I wonder when we're gonna fish together, Jess? :laugh: )

I'm not trying to single out the guy who wrote the report, as he's a visitor from another state here for the fall run.

He was merely trying to help his fellow anglers, I get that, that's admirable. :clapping:

However, it should be the moderator and site owner's ethical responsibility to moderate posts that are too specific. Why is that not being done at this particular site?

What are some possible answers?
Greater ad revenue?
The desire to add to the membership base, no matter what the consequences to the fishing environment?
Pure arrogance? :don't know why:

I don't know what their answer is, but do know that some of the more popular fishing website owners, like Rod Redington from Bassbarn and Striperjim from Stripers247, have recently shifted their policy where they edit posts and don't permit specific spot burning. Kudos to them, for recognizing the problem that existed and trying to do something to alleviate it. :clapping::clapping:

Yet this other site plods along, like an ostrich with its head in the sand, incorrectly claiming that there is no harm coming from its policy of listing specific sites and streets, even when the areas can be negatively impacted by too many fisherman at once. :don't know why:

I thank all you other fishermen for posting these examples up as well, as I can't be everwhere at once. As we do lose more access, I believe sites like that should bear a greater responsibility for the actions set in place by a spot specific internet report.

**************************************************


Here's the edited fishing report, I took out the location info:
Fished off *** Ave. ****** *****last night 12-4am, 2 shorts on clams just after mid-night. Blowing sand sent me home.

Back 8am-12pm, caught 13 (12 shorts mostly in 23-26 range). Must have missed 6-7 more. http://stripersurf.com/images/smilies/mgun.gifSaw others taking fish. Here's the deal ---- green tailed AVA 27 with white bucktail teaser. About 1/2 of fish taken on teaser. There are three shallow holes lined up at ***, *** Ave and another at ***. I was hooking up by standing on south side of hole as far out as I could manage in surf (not far) and casting as hard as I could to about 10 o'clock (facing ocean), reeling in wind slack as fast as possible, then continuing with fast retrieve. Most strikes happen within first 15 seconds while AVA was as far out as I could get it. A couple taken by throwing almost sideways into hole. That might be the trick a high tide but I left. Sore as $#@*.



Here's my response which they decided was too inflammatory to post?
Thanks for your detailed report, ***, glad you got some fish. It's quite an accomplishment to get into a hot bite.

I wonder if you are aware if you don't have a 4 wheel pass and have to walk on, parking isn't the best in that area. Also, I wondered if it was in the best interests of the fishing community, and the homeowners who live in that area, to expose that area to thousands of lurkers on the internet.

"Fish move", it's no big deal, I've been told.

When sandeels are set up in a place, fish might not move for weeks. I can guarantee solely because of this info on a public forum, there will be double the number of people cruising that area now.

I realize the intent of your post was to help your fellow striper anglers, and that's admirable. :thumbsup:

To anyone who fishes a lot, I ask if you remember the great fall fishing we had at St Aphonse's in Long Branch, and how parking was closed down because a guy trespassed into the rectory to use their toilet, got caught, and argued with a priest. :argue:

Or the heavy concentration of people on the jetties on Deal in the spring, a town with 1 mile of shoreline that has restricted parking specifically because of the hordes of people that descended there. Much of this poor behavior is fueled by strangers reading internet reports of large fish caught.

I do enjoy reading your reports ***. It seems you want to help your fellow anglers and make it easier for them. You tell them how you caught the fish, which is a great component of any report.

But the "where" is the point I feel strongly against, especially on an open forum. There are plenty of ways to back-channel that kind of info. My reply may be censored here, but if anyone gets a chance to read it before it is, I ask that you at least consider these points.

We are all collectively responsible for the fishing access lost or problems created by loose lips on the internet. Saying it isn't an issue, and censoring someone from speaking about it, isn't the best way to deal with the big picture of more anglers fishing with real time info.

Thanks for reading this, guys. :thumbsup:

[storminsteve]

I know the site you're talking about, Dark, I read the other guy's report yesterday. I think your answer to him was very diplomatic and carefully worded. After all he was only trying to help people catch fish. The moderator is another story though, what a .... He's the kind of guy who begged to be the hall monitor in high school, the wannabe cop kind of guy who needs to have that power over others because he has no power in real life. The heck with him, ....http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.gif

[BassBuddah]

I hate when people do that. I don't know if it's possible to change the policy of a website. Look at noreast, they burn places all the time, it's good for business. That will never change, just my .02.

[baitstealer]

There is just no point to spot burning. By the time the report goes up the fish are gone. All that is created is a bunch of fisherman hoping to jump on the bandwagon without doing any scouting work. Next time you go out to one of your spots you find it crowded with fishermen mugging each other. What's the point?

[finchaser]

doesn't mean the people who show will catch them any way:)

[rockhopper]

One of those sites metnioned in this thread burned Demo big time. You had guys fishing it that had never heard of it before. All they heard was that big fish were all over the beach. That was a slight exxageration too, but no one wanted to point that out.

[rip316]

That reminds me of last year when the fishermen magazine had that power plan on the front page, I believe with a pic of a guy with a bass. The next day some guys I know that fish the area were so pist because these guys came out of nowhere and too k the place over.

[DarkSkies]

That reminds me of last year when the fishermen magazine had that power plan on the front page, I believe with a pic of a guy with a bass. The next day some guys I know that fish the area were so pist because these guys came out of nowhere and too k the place over.

You'll notice we dance around mentioning things like that here, Rip.

The longer you fish, the better you learn to read between the lines with some reports. You don't have to have a specific location if you fish a lot of areas. You automatically know where the likelihood is of fish being caught according to the stage of the year.

That's why a blanket statement of: "Fish move, spot burning is not an issue..." gets to me. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.gif

Off the top of my head, I can think of at least 5 specific places in LI and NJ where fish held in an area or spot, or came in at different times every day, for sustained time periods in 2009. What purpose does it solve by encouraging thousands of internet lurkers to flock to those areas? :don't know why:

If people live around there, it only motivates them to go to their mayor or chief of police and further restrict parking.

If people don't live around there, there could be handicapped fishermen or old timers who fish there every day. They have no interest in the internet. They would have to find somewhere else to fish as a "hot-spot" becomes temporarily over-run by internet/tackle shop report chasers.

What's the point in doing that to those old-timers? True, tbey don't own those places, but they don't deserve to be blitzkrieged by the Viking Hordes either. :viking:


Reports are always encouraged. A specific report is a lot better than one where a guy comes on the internet to brag how he killed them with no details. To me, that's just feeding one's ego. :rolleyes:

However, I feel that all moderators of internet sites bear a moral responsibility to do their best to avoid concentrating fishermen too intensely in one area. If the bite is good, people will find out about it soon enough. I feel the moral responsibility to do the right thing and not burn spots to increase membership does lie with us site owners.

Some take this responsibility seriously, some don't. I have no control over that. I can only tell ya we take it seriously here. :HappyWave:

[BassBuddah]

One of those sites metnioned in this thread burned Demo big time. You had guys fishing it that had never heard of it before. All they heard was that big fish were all over the beach. That was a slight exxageration too, but no one wanted to point that out.

That place looked like they were giving away free Vs's a few times this fall.

[DarkSkies]

The beginning of the season invariably spurs talk about spot burning.

I was going to let this thread lay undisturbed. Today I tried to explain something somewhere else, so might as welll post my response here....


The OP:

"I've shared some things on here, and lost some good fishing spots because of it. Say that place gets over run, and the trash really piles up. The local town gets sick of it, so they put an end to it.
To whoever said its a big river, with plenty of room? Finding a place to wet a line, and finding a place to catch fish are 2 different things.
I'd be willing to bet that most guys have a place they like to fish, and only a couple guys know about it."


My response agreeing with him:

*******, we have the same problems in north Jersey. Guys started catching bass in Raritan bay spring 2009. One genius bragged about his location and town on the internet. The next day there were 75 people in a 350' stretch of beach because he had to satisfy his ego by saying he got 25 bass there. :huh:

He's still bragging about it this year, and doesn't realize the damage he caused with his specific report. Here's what the place looked like:



10245

10246



Another nearby town got overrun by fishermen after a series of internet reports giving out the exact location as a "bass hotspot" and descriptions and pics of big fish people were landing.

Fishermen were leaving trash all over the place and homeowners were pissed. That town started ticketing fishermen on previously unenforced parking violations. We had to do a beach cleanup there to try to get back in the good graces of the homeowners.

That's just the back bay area, there are more stories like that.







As for the ocean, in Monmouth county, we (surf fishermen) lost access at St Alphonse's retreat because after a mad-dog bite, some guy snuck into the priest's sanctuary to use their bathroom without permission, and gave the priest a hard time when he was caught. Some guy was also caught cleaning fish near a religious statue. :huh:

A few blocks away from that, the town enacted severely restrictive parking regulations after it received complaints of pissing on lawns and fishermen tresspassing, cleaning fish, leaving the racks in homeowner garbage cans, and other things like that. Another place lost by people being too free with specific intel on the internet.

Last Fall 2009 in Mantoloking, the town clamped down and changed the parking regs after a few noreasters destroyed the public fishermen walkways. Fishermen were using private homeowner access areas to get to the beach, leaving their litter on private property as they did it. I wouldn't say the Mantoloking case was pure spot burning. It was more a case of careless fishermen. It still caused trouble for those of us who fished that area regularly.

It might be different for people like **** or others who fish from boats, but for shore fishermen it's a big issue.

So I'm not trying to pass judgement here. Wanting to help people is admirable. :thumbsup: Lots of times in helping people new friendships are forged. If that's a goal of someone who's fishing, that's great. I didn't read any malice in the sentences ******* posted.

But there are a lot of guys who have been fishing areas for a long time. The primary reason they're out there at all hours of the night is to catch fish, or catch bigger fish when no one else is around.

There are sites out there where you'll be censored or banned for even complaining about spot burning. The admins encourage it to bring traffic and revenue to the site.
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.gif
I have to give you guys credit for at least being able to have this discussion.

I'm just tryiing to point out, that there is a balance between helping and giving too much information. For the guys who fish from shore, sedges, bay or river banks, specific spot info can sometimes hurt us because you never know how many lurkers are reading a report.

A spot doesn't belong to any one person or group. We all need to learn to share. However, I'm not willing to share a place with 300 guys at a time because of a specific internet report.
That's all.

[7deadlyplugs]

What gets me about spot burning are the cell phones and intel. If someone passes info on to you then you should not be passing it along as well. If everyone said I'll just tell my buddy and then he tells his buddy you end up with mayhem on the beach.

[hookset]

I consider that spot burning. He wanted to show the fish which is all well and good, but I bet tomorrow there will be lots of guys there.

[storminsteve]

The OP:

"I've shared some things on here, and lost some good fishing spots because of it. Say that place gets over run, and the trash really piles up. The local town gets sick of it, so they put an end to it.


My response agreeing with him:
10245

10246


Fishermen were leaving trash all over the place and homeowners were pissed. That town started ticketing fishermen on previously unenforced parking violations. We had to do a beach cleanup there to try to get back in the good graces of the homeowners.

As for the ocean, in Monmouth county, we (surf fishermen) lost access at St Alphonse's retreat because after a mad-dog bite, some guy snuck into the priest's sanctuary to use their bathroom without permission, and gave the priest a hard time when he was caught. Some guy was also caught cleaning fish near a religious statue. :huh:

A few blocks away from that, the town enacted severely restrictive parking regulations after it received complaints of pissing on lawns and fishermen tresspassing, cleaning fish, leaving the racks in homeowner garbage cans, and other things like that. Another place lost by people being too free with specific intel on the internet.

I'm just tryiing to point out, that there is a balance between helping and giving too much information. For the guys who fish from shore, sedges, bay or river banks, specific spot info can sometimes hurt us because you never know how many lurkers are reading a report.



:clapping::clapping::clapping:Well-said, dark, too much disrespect could lead to this. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.gif
10612

[stripermania]

Talk about spot burning! There is a web site which I came across that actually has a map on their home page. The map has an arrow which pin points the EXACT area where the fish were caught giving complete description of the type, bait used and size of fish.

I bet every day those spots get over-run with fishermen. I'd rather not fish than fish two inches apart from someone else.

[Jackbass]

I know the website you are talking about. He has toned that down to the point where you need to get the map from him with the locations numbered on it. In fact that location is all about hiking so many of your lurkers aren't even going to venture into a lot of those areas.

That being said i would never post my favorite holes for everyone to burn

[DarkSkies]

If it hasn't happened already as I post this at 8:15 pm Fri nignt... I predict a major NJ spotburn will be broadcast from one of the most glory-hungry spot-burners out there, complete with revealing video and maps to get you exactly to the patch of sand that's 200 yards long and comfortably holds about 50 anglers tops. :wow:

I've gotten so many angry phone calls and pms about it already today, it's only a matter of time before it gets broadcast to the world.

Thank you Mr Tackle shop video entrepeneur, boldly burning spots with more accuracy and at the speed of light, we salute you... :2flip:

You heard it here first....:HappyWave:

[jigfreak]

I went to the site, he didn't burn it yet, Dark. Probably will in a few days, though. I remember he did it around this time last year.What a tool, I hate that guy.:2flip::2flip:

[crosseyedbass]

Can't stand when people do that.

[EddyRider]

The ultimate spot burn is the new issue of "On The Water", the four corners of RB article with detailed maps and directions to fishing Great Kills, J-Bay, The Hook and Union Beach. There is enough people out there already. There is no need to be pumping out articles like this that will bring every idiot in to fish the spots they read about...

Writing like this is done for self-gratification and with no regard for the spots or those that are locals or regulars there. Its actually a shame.

[storminsteve]

The ultimate spot burn is the new issue of "On The Water", the four corners of RB article with detailed maps and directions to fishing Great Kills, J-Bay, The Hook and Union Beach. There is enough people out there already. There is no need to be pumping out articles like this that will bring every idiot in to fish the spots they read about...

Writing like this is done for self-gratification and with no regard for the spots or those that are locals or regulars there. Its actually a shame.


:clapping::clapping: Right on eddy rider, the tackle shops, newspapers and magazines all tell the guys where the fish are, but is it necessary to post detailed maps and directions? ***?:burn: They are not the ones who have to pay a price if an area becomes too crowded and shut down. BTW, welcome to stripers and anglers. :HappyWave:

[EddyRider]

Thanks Steve. Been lurking around for awhile but thought this thread was a good place to jump in.

What burns me is the authors are usually fishing guys that don't seem to mind burning the spots to get accreditation and pats on the back, then in 6 months they are usually the first one bitchin that their spots are being over run by googans..

[buckethead]

Thanks Steve. Been lurking around for awhile but thought this thread was a good place to jump in.

What burns me is the authors are usually fishing guys that don't seem to mind burning the spots to get accreditation and pats on the back, then in 6 months they are usually the first one bitchin that their spots are being over run by googans..

Kind of gives new meaning to the word "ironic", doesn't it?
Too many people are out for glory in this world, either by proving to the whole world they know where the fish are or by incessantly needing to weigh in every fish they catch at a tackle shop. I read the other day a bass was weighed at 7.5lbs. Why would you even weigh in a bass like that? At 28" that would be a very skinny bass. Just take it home and eat it with some baked potatoes and a good wine. But no, ego takes over and people have to put themselves on the internet map, either by weighing all the fish they catch or posting up about where the hottest action is even if all the locals and regulars then have hell to pay for the next 2 weeks because of the spot burning.
btw welcome to S&A EddyRider.

[EddyRider]

Thanks Bucket,
The funny part is the author lives in the Trenton NJ area and doesn't even live near the water and is burning these spots in NY without even thinking twice about it. I have seen it happen to my hometown in South Seaside Park and IBSP, the sedge islands where never popular or busy and we have a house in the park still that overlooks that area and I have been fishing back there since I was a baby.

Then the same author started to fish back there and then the articles started and then the seminars started and so on and so on, until the sedges were swamped with guys and he finally admitted that it was a mistake, but yet turns around and burns these spots for the glory and recognition..

I don't get it.

[fishinmission78]

Then the same author starting to fish back there and then the articles started and then the seminars started and so on and so on, until the sedges were swamped with guys and he finally admitted that it was a mistake, but yet turns around and burns these spots for the glory and recognition..

I don't get it.

If this is the guy I think it is, I don't get it either. His ego and denial are bigger than the Nile river.
Welcome to the site.

[albiealert]

Writing like this is done for self-gratification and with no regard for the spots or those that are locals or regulars there. Its actually a shame.

I bet he wouldn't do that in Ct. We have hardly any access at all except for some state parks, the rivers, and certain marinas. If he did that up here I bet guys would try to kill him. Spots are so valued because they are so scarce. Guys don't get it. Welcome to Stripers and Anglers, Eddyrider, dso you just fish NJ or do you ever fish other states?

[wish4fish]

Thanks Bucket,
The funny part is the author lives in the Trenton NJ area and doesn't even live near the water and is burning these spots in NY without even thinking twice about it. I have seen it happen to my hometown in South Seaside Park and IBSP, the sedge islands where never popular or busy and we have a house in the park still that overlooks that area and I have been fishing back there since I was a baby.

Then the same author started to fish back there and then the articles started and then the seminars started and so on and so on, until the sedges were swamped with guys and he finally admitted that it was a mistake, but yet turns around and burns these spots for the glory and recognition..

I don't get it.

we have that happen in raritan bay all the time and last year they were ticketing people at cliffwood beach becuz of the idiots spot burning and littering. if you want to let people know where u catch fish keep it in a small group. that one extra person you trust you will be sad you did when he brings all his friends there the next day. hey welcome to the site eddyrider, what's all that anthracite stuff?:HappyWave:

[EddyRider]

what's all that anthracite stuff?:HappyWave:


I have a kayakfishing guiding business in the Endless Mountains of PA on the Susquehanna River. Anthracite Outfitters, LLC click the links in the signature to go to our site.

Thanks for the welcome and I just don't get why people just can't understand that blowing up a spot in print is just the wrong way to go about protecting these areas from being overrun.

[DarkSkies]

1.To the self-esteem challenged guy who saw fit to post a specific street on the internet as a "blitz location"....
Why is your self-esteem so low that you have to build yourself up among thousands of internet strangers, bringing them to residential areas where the heavy traffic and flow of fishermen won't have anything but negative results for our future of fishing there?...



2. To the brazen genius who suggested that the best way to make fishing friends on the internet was to create a "limited" list of text and cell phone chain so a "few good friends" could all clue each other in on whatever fishing opportunities that arose, and "fish together and all have a good time".
Dude you need to get a clue. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon3.gif
I'm thinking even if someone patiently tried to explain why that's a bad idea on so many levels, you would probably sit there defending your idea until someone gave you the smackdown you deserve. :beatin:



3. To the administrators of certain fishing web sites who think it's OK to generate internet traffic by not moderating such posts, and allowing it to boost your internet ratings...
I'm waiting for some of these places to be restricted in the near future. You administrators who refuse to moderate posts naming specific fishing locations bear some of that responsibility.


I have more thoughts on this, but these are the most diplomatic ones I can think of right now.

I'll to try to address this at a later time when I've had time to think of a milder response than the ones I'm thinking.

Anyone who wants to add to this discussion, feel free to weigh in. :thumbsup:

[cowherder]

1.To the self-esteem challenged guy who saw fit to post a specific street on the internet as a "blitz location"....
Why is your self-esteem so low that you have to build yourself up among thousands of internet strangers, bringing them to residential areas where the heavy traffic and flow of fishermen won't have anything but negative results for our future of fishing there?...







:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping: :thumbsup:
Well said!
Dark for President! :clapping::clapping::clapping:

[finchaser]

1.To the self-esteem challenged guy who saw fit to post a specific street on the internet as a "blitz location"....


He wasn't a self-esteem challenged guy just another want to be internet loser :burn: Let's not forget he couldn't catch fish in a boat either (which was stated by him)

Lets not forget the other loser who wanted to start a text message hot line for blitz info, 3/4 of these people with out cell phones and the internet couldn't catch a fish,goes for some people that post here too.

[fishinmission78]

3/4 of these people with out cell phones and the internet couldn't catch a fish,goes for some people that post here too.

:clapping::clapping:******* A!

[jigfreak]

1.To the self-esteem challenged guy

That guy is a ****. Ahab the **** smoker.:burn: There are enough people out there. If they know what they are doing and figure it out, so be it. To clue the whole world in shows that either he has only been fishing a few years, or is such a loser in real life that's the only way he thinks he can get some respect for people. Tool.

[rockhopper]

This came from another site, the guy posted a blitz report, he thought he was helping people. This is what really happens after, and people should think about that. Good thread.



"Thanks for the report. Because of it, I got to walk up and down the beach that I fish every night, only to find piles of fishing line and garbage. If you are going to report chase, at least have some respect for the beaches you are on. These reports are supposed to give people an education. Telling them where the fish are is not an education. The fish are there one minute, and gone the next. It's sending them on a wild goose chase. Telling them that you were fishing on the south shore beaches, at a certain tide, with a certain wind direction, with a certain bait predominant, is an education.

I have no issues with reporting. I have written a few myself in the past. I just do not consider that a report, and hope that in the future, the people "computer fishing" will pick up after themselves."

[finchaser]

This came from another site, the guy posted a blitz report, he thought he was helping people. This is what really happens after, and people should think about that. Good thread.



"Thanks for the report. Because of it, I got to walk up and down the beach that I fish every night, only to find piles of fishing line and garbage. If you are going to report chase, at least have some respect for the beaches you are on. These reports are supposed to give people an education. Telling them where the fish are is not an education. The fish are there one minute, and gone the next. It's sending them on a wild goose chase. Telling them that you were fishing on the south shore beaches, at a certain tide, with a certain wind direction, with a certain bait predominant, is an education.

I have no issues with reporting. I have written a few myself in the past. I just do not consider that a report, and hope that in the future, the people "computer fishing" will pick up after themselves."


:clapping::clapping::clapping:

[plugaholic]

just another want to be internet loser :burn:

Internet loser = guy with small penis who has nothing else going on for him.:d

[rockhopper]

Here is a pretty reasonable opinion I found on the internet about spot burning. I like the way this guy thinks -----:clapping:


Many of the members who post reports don't fully understand the possible ramifications of their actions.

Many have not been fishing long, or have not been on the site long, in effect, they don't have the life experience to foresee the trickle down effects of their posted report. They are just fulfilling a few of the basic human instincts and mean no harm. If the person is a reasonable sort, then your sole, effective course of action is to "educate" them, and this should be done with an understanding of human nature. If you attack, they will defend and your mesage is lost. If you deliver your message with tact and solid reasoning, they may begin to understand.

1) It's not the bad you may do to yourself, it is the unintentional harm you may do to others. Most people don't consider this and don't care for blood on their hands.
2) Remind that this is one of the major reasons why the "upper eschelon" does not do this.
3) That the posted reports are read by thousands, mostly by non-contributors, many of which constitute a bad element (slobs, illegals, etc). This is an important point because many members think that only the small group that replies or contributes are the ones reading the reports.
4) You understand that the member is just trying to "help" other like minds catch fish, but because of point# 3, it frequently backfires.
5) Point out that if the person is looking to advance within the "ranks" of the surf fishing community, then gaining an understanding of the culture is neccessary.
6) That respecting fellow surfcasters includes respecting their turf.

[baitstealer]

Well-said!

[DarkSkies]

Someone made this comment last week. Not to single any one person out, because this statement has become a manra for some.

Right now we have several examples that shoot holes in that statement: :kooky:



... this action continues, day 5 today. Congrats to you and John.
The cold dirty water from the storm might affect it a bit, but I'm thinking only slightly. The thing I came ro realize as I was there today is that the action is so great because the fish are drawn there. Where you were has one of the highest food concentrations in the whole bay. But that's right now because other places aren't holding bait. When that dynamic changes and the other early season places begin to hold more bait, this should naturally shift to a broader horizon.



This occurs more than you can imagine, folks. Either a high concentration of bait or favorable temps will keep fish in an area for days, or even weeks. This happens every year along the bays and at at several coastal locations. It's almost like clockwork.

If you do your homework and keep a detailed fishing log, you can almost predict when these things will happen.

And along comes someone who spouts out the above sentence, the title to this post. :don't know why:

Again, this isn't directed at a specific person. I've heard it so many times I'm sick of hearing it, though. :2flip: When you make a statement like this, and actually believe your words, it shows you are either very uninformed in fish and bait behavior, or that you are very inexperienced, and not willing to learn more to better yourself.

The next time someone makes a statement like this, I'll diplomatically :beatin: :laugh: try to point them to this thread. For now I thought it was a good time to re-visit this thread. We have several areas along the shore where these conditions are now developing. If you don't agree, please skim this whole thread and let the comments sink in. Thanks people. :HappyWave:

[storminsteve]

"Spot-on", Dark! :laugh: :HappyWave:

[finchaser]

Most INTERNET and cell phone fish report chasers by time they get to a spot unless the fish are blitzing are clueless and don't get anything. Examples are the snot slingers they arrive and set up multiple rods and watch as everyone around them get fish on metal. Before the INTERNET and especially cell phones there was no such thing unless someone opened there mouth at a 7-11 or tackle store. Maybe with the extended fluke season and lack of bass they will go back where they came from. just my take on spot burning and fluke fishermen gone wild.

[surfwalker]

WHY? Why would anyone want to give away a spot that may produce at any given time. Expose it to the masses and put more pressure on it than it can handle. I see no benefit to that, it's crazy to me. My opinion on spot burning has not changed since my last post in this thread. I won't frequent certain productive areas that have treated me well in the past due to the increase in fisherman, I don't enjoy crowds.

Maybe I'm wrong, but with certain beaches being closed to the plovers, less parking areas, and the increase of fisherman every year, the movement of goverment to possibly close some areas, and the towns with their restrictions, it's getting to confineing. I don't like to be confined. I enjoy walking/casting where I want. I don't enjoy walking a half mile to get past never seen bait guys with 4 rods each or 5 surfcasters just standing there BS'ing. I could be casting that water.

So, I guess I'm selfish. I've never liked giving up spots and I see no reason for it. I'll ask again, Why do you wanna give up your go to spots?

[Monty]

I won't frequent certain productive areas that have treated me well in the past due to the increase in fisherman, I don't enjoy crowds.

:HappyWave:
I hate crowds too. Never fish in them, its not fun.
A big part of the fishing outing is targeting an area that will not have any (or very few) fisherman. Especially those snot slingers (not that theres anything wrong with that).

[finchaser]

WHY? Why would anyone want to give away a spot that may produce at any given time. Expose it to the masses and put more pressure on it than it can handle. I see no benefit to that, it's crazy to me. My opinion on spot burning has not changed since my last post in this thread. I won't frequent certain productive areas that have treated me well in the past due to the increase in fisherman, I don't enjoy crowds.

Maybe I'm wrong, but with certain beaches being closed to the plovers, less parking areas, and the increase of fisherman every year, the movement of goverment to possibly close some areas, and the towns with their restrictions, it's getting to confineing. I don't like to be confined. I enjoy walking/casting where I want. I don't enjoy walking a half mile to get past never seen bait guys with 4 rods each or 5 surfcasters just standing there BS'ing. I could be casting that water.

So, I guess I'm selfish. I've never liked giving up spots and I see no reason for it. I'll ask again, Why do you wanna give up your go to spots?



:clapping::clapping::clapping:

[DarkSkies]

Thanks for the perspectives guys. You would know it because you have lived it. :HappyWave:

[rockhopper]

I would like to add a guy who spot burns, probably does it because he doesn't know any better or doesn't have a lot of fishing experience under his belt. He never went to a favorite spot only to find people fishing shoulder to shoulder and having it ruined by all the trash. I know Montauk is crowded, I don't think you really can spot burn it, but saying "Turtle Cove", "The Browns", or "Caswells" is definitely bad because everyone will jump on. Even buring inlets is bad because some guys fish inlets for only one night and quit. If it's hot, and someone writes about it, they will come back night after night, after night. Same thing with bridges. I would never say I fished "X" bridge because then it could be ruined. Thank you for this thread guys!

[DarkSkies]

A lot of you know I'm registered on just about every salt water fishing site out there. I jump in from time to time to help the new guys, but also to speak up when something is wrong and the admins don't seem to be concerned...spot burning and fish conservation are two of the subjects I'm most vocal about.

Here, I tried to post a satiric viewpoint to get guys to look at what their constant specific reports are doing to a Gateway park in the NY Bight area. I fish all the Gateway parks and feel that although some have miles of beaches, publicizing a specific section can, and has, caused problems for the regulars who fish tbere when hordes of fishermen descend upon them based on an internet or tackle shop report. :viking:

So in this post, I decided to try a humorous/satiric thrust. Mods were not amuised. The post lasted 4 hours befiore it was deleted...





posted at 1:45pm 4/29
deleted by mods at......6:15pm



"sharing is caring
Hey nice report, glad you got out there. http://www.noreast.com/discussion/images/post_icons/thumb.gif http://www.noreast.com/discussion/images/post_icons/ubicon8.gif

I am making this offer to all ******* members....
I actually own the 2 bridges in Brooklyn.
I am willing to give ONE of them away to a lucky angler in a contest.

To enter, all you have to do is predict what will happen 2 weeks from now....
1. Can we fit 500 guys on the small area of ** that's being talked about here day in and day out?
2. How long will that take? 5 days? 2 weeks?
3. If we can't fit 500 people there,, what is the maximum amount of people do you think we can fit, before we end up with posts here where guys are complaining about the crowds and garbage....http://www.noreast.com/discussion/images/post_icons/surprise2.gif

Enter as many times as you want, the one closest to predicting the meltdown of services and civility in this beautiful national park will be the winner. http://www.noreast.com/discussion/images/post_icons/thumb.gifhttp://www.noreast.com/discussion/images/post_icons/thumb.gif

Remember, I have TWO bridges in Brooklyn....anyone who comes close to the closest prediction is eligible for a special drawing to win or get the leasing revenue from the 2nd bridge I own....

Let the games begin, guys.
And remember, sharing is caring." http://www.noreast.com/discussion/images/post_icons/tongue.gif http://www.noreast.com/discussion/images/post_icons/thumb.gif

[storminsteve]

I don't know dark, I found that to be pretty funny and a creative way to get your point across. Maybe the forum modertors are just nazis on that site.:huh:

[DarkSkies]

The internet tackle shop hero nominated for this month's spot burn award is a guy who likes to fish eels and brag about all the monster bass he's catching...

Fine, we get it, very happy for ya, dude...:clapping:

But when ya post phrases like: "Hint, hint, the fish are in **", what that does is concentrate the guys in one area, to the aggravation of homeowners (powerful and connected homeowners) , irritation for those who don't fish, and a general nuisance to those in Law Enforcement who must enforce those laws....

It's public information that all 3 bridges "in the back" in NNJ waters are now closed to fishermen.

This began earliier this year, an incident mentioned here, where some guys were bridge fishing (which the police tolerated despite the signs). They were told not to fish the opposite sidewalk. When they ignored police and their gear was confiscated, they leveled charges of racism against the police.

Even though these charges were false, no one is now allowed to fish on or near the bridges, the towns claiming safety as an issue. The real issue was dealing with these idiots from another country who couldn't manage to comply :beatin: with the police, as accomodating as they were....:thumbsup:


Bearing this in mind, what possesses someone to boast, on an open internet forum.. about bigger fish caught in this area, and bring folks down to tresspass and cause police to exercise their power? :huh:

Furthermore, what possesses such a guy to specifically name other small areas, in the county he fishes, to the extent that those other spots are now crowded as well...:beatin:

So crowded that you need to take a number.....:kooky:

Some of us, as mentioned, saw this coming, and now have plan B, C, and D in effect every time we are out there. Others, unknowingly, are drawn into the melee each time an internet hero http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.png like this posts up about the fishing, and brings more people in...This eventually causes homeowners to have bad experiences with the volume of anglers....





There is one great location on Ocean County (back bay area) that now is unavailable to anglers because an angler got in an argument with a homeowner, and left a rack (remains of a filleted fish) on their property as a prank. This kind of behavior is unacceptable and should not be tolerated.

If you associate with people like this, consider it your duty to speak out against it. If not, the next time a place is shut down and we lose access, you will have no one to blame but yourself....:learn:

[jigfreak]

Yeah ds I remember that post, guys a turd, no offense to turd ferguson. And then he got edited twice for blabbing his pie hole. It's like some people have a compelling need to tell guys they are into fish and where. All I care about is is the fish are there, I can do the rest of the work. Don't need the where, just a county. A dude like that should be buried in the sand, like a cat turd.

[DarkSkies]

. It's like some people have a compelling need to tell guys they are into fish and where. All I care about is is the fish are there, I can do the rest of the work. Don't need the where, just a county. .

Well-said, Jigfreak. :thumbsup:


There was a well-known tackle shop that posted a report..."Get down to *******, they're creaming them NOW!"
This is what the beach looked like the next day....
14388


14389


14390

[DarkSkies]

This is what a beach a few miles away looked like. They caught more fish at the less crowded beach.


Any questions.....?


14392


14391

[DarkSkies]

Island Beach.....

The worst kept secret in the world, EVERY tackle shop in the area (even other counties) is sending their customers there. I realize it can't be helped, this is the nature of the modern world we fish in today.....





A little story....
The old farts fishing club (OFFC) were there today, hoping for some afternoon action....

They saw one fish caught...as Soon as that guy hooked up, 8 other guys came running down to where her was and started casting...it was so feverish that they almost knocked him off the bar......:lynchmob:

I can't stand that type of fishing, because I feel I won't be silent and could end up getting arrested when I give someone swimming lessons....http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon11.png

Reports I got today said it was just like being on a codfishing boat at Block Island, only from the surf...insanity and NJ, perfect together,,,,

[CharlieTuna]

One of the things I do not miss about NJ at all.

[Monty]

They saw one fish caught...as Soon as that guy hooked up, 8 other guys came running down to where her was and started casting...it was so feverish that they almost knocked him off the bar......:lynchmob:

I can't stand that type of fishing, because I feel I won't be silent and could end up getting arrested when I give someone swimming lessons....http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon11.png

Reports I got today said it was just like being on a codfishing boat at Block Island, only from the surf...insanity and NJ, perfect together,,,,

To me that's not fishing. I would rather go fishless on a lonesome beach.
One more thing (off toipic). Some boat action I have seen the last two Sundays (and I have not been fishing in a huge crowd) has been disgusting. With boats plowing through feeding fish and into my casting lane. I absolutely hate boats and boat fisherman. While there are many considerate boat fisherman, I lump them all together as I just see an incredible amount of inconsiderate stupid boat fisherman. I'm anti-boat fisherman. While I can choose an area to fish that will not be crowded, I cannot find an area without stupid inconsiderate boat fisherman.

[storminsteve]

With boats plowing through feeding fish and into my casting lane. I absolutely hate boats and boat fisherman. While there are many considerate boat fisherman, I lump them all together as I just see an incredible amount of inconsiderate stupid boat fisherman. I'm anti-boat fisherman. While I can choose an area to fish that will not be crowded, I cannot find an area without stupid inconsiderate boat fisherman.

The only area I know of where you will not be mugged by them is way in the back of Raritan Bay, Monty. Where it is too shallow for them to come in. Otherwise they are a real PITA, I could not agree more. Especially in the areas of the Hook, Long branch/Deal, and the Belmar area. They have the whole freaking ocean, and yet if they see you catch just one fish they come racing in. Sometimes I want to take clam shells and use them as frisbees to hit their boats, they come in so close. A-holes.http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon8.png

[DarkSkies]

Spot burning January 2012

This was just called in to me... and I am posting it in its entirety, ....


***************

"Congratulations to A*, J*, and M* for your recent internet fishing reports. Although it's no secret where some fish are being caught now, most of us fishing in the general area are putting lots of time, and risk, to get to these fish. The small fish you internet heroes caught were lucky ones, as finding the larger ones takes lots of work, paying attention to tides, and forage fish patterns.

There is also a level of risk to fishing in these areas. Your self-serving adulation reports will do nothing but draw people into the area who aren't up to the task of accessing these risks. This time of year, fishing is extremely risky because of the water temps and weather. A fisherman died less than 3 months ago on the Shark River Jetty because he made a simple mistake, fell in, and could not be rescued... The water is less than 50 degrees and if not prepared can spell your death in 10 minutes of exposure if you fall in....
If someone does get hurt because of the increased activity that your internet fishing report is sure to generate, I will be sure to contact the family of the survivors and at that time point them to your specific internet report that was so encouraging of fishing where you went........"

************









If any of you recognize yourselves in this post, either reading it or because someone (hopefully) forwards it to you asking you if "you" are "those guys that made that report"... I would be happy to discuss your idiocy in detail.........Best of luck to ya's!

[finchaser]

When they get hurt or die oh well, blame it on the INTERNET that spawned these so called know it all bass fisherman that know nothing. I am sick of video weigh ins of 8 pound fish and numerous nauseating photos on FACEBOOK. I read what you described above on the video sight which is now posting video's from the beginning of December. I hope when there are no bass these losers Cherish these videos of there 28" trophy

[xtreme_visions]

fished for hrs with a buddy the other night without a soul around until i caught 1. then within 30min car after car appeared with people rushing to the spot. i left after a few groups showed up and as i sat in the truck before pulling off i watched several more cars pull up in a rush and run to the spot. take in mind it was late at night on a weekday and i would def not call this a high traffic zone. i find it hard to believe that this was anything more then a coincidence but it did make me think a little.

good reading guys! and monty u know what i like to do when those boats come in close. AIM FOR THE HEAD! those diamond jigs i found to b perfect for the job. i had a problem once with a few guys riding jet skis right along the shoreline where me and my girlfriend were fishing. doing donuts and acting crazy..so much ******* space but they had to come right in our section. they noticed our lines for sure because they avoided them but did not leave until that piece of metal flew by there emtpy heads a few times. lucky for them they didnt come in for a break :kooky:

hey if some of u guys dont mind PM me links to those sites u r talking about. the 1's with the reports and videos.

[DarkSkies]

There is also a level of risk to fishing in these areas. Your self-serving adulation reports will do nothing but draw people into the area who aren't up to the task of accessing these risks. This time of year, fishing is extremely risky because of the water temps and weather. A fisherman died less than 3 months ago on the Shark River Jetty because he made a simple mistake, fell in, and could not be rescued... The water is less than 50 degrees and if not prepared can spell your death in 10 minutes of exposure if you fall in....




Someone recently asked me if perhaps I was too harsh on these 3 Geniuses and their specific Facebook reports...
I thought about it, and decided what I said, had to be said. No regrets.

There are plenty of people out there who just don't get it. Not only do location specific reports like the above draw folks into the game who are not prepared for the cold water and the implied danger of falling in, but some folks are still discounting the loss of access we fishermen have faced in the last 3 years. I have been travelling to several states in the last few years to help others fight for fishermen access.

When we lose access, whose fault is it?....the towns? The ritzy homeowners who don't like fishermen?????? The elite PETA folks who hate fishermen?

Nope....generally it's the fault of us fishermen, or a few of us at least...and poor behavior, disrespect of property, and the incessant specificity of those idiots who feel it's ok to draw a road map to where they caught their latest batch of fish....whether you want to argue about the role the internet plays in all of this, we fishermen certainly must own up to part of the blame...

I know most of us are responsible, respectful, and careful when fishing in areas that are near to where homeowners live...but there are those among us who are not....and ignoring that will not lessen the problem....







Here's a post I recently put up on another site....


When you post as specific as you have been, complete with a half dozen pics, and the next day there is a SRO crowd, isn't there any connection that your post may have had something to do with it? :p

1. We surf guys lost access at St Alphonse's because one of the surf guys thought it was ok to take a crap in the priests personal bathroom,, and then argued with the priest when he was caught.

2. We've lost some access in the Oyster creek and other back bay areas because of internet repors and the resulting waves of fishermen that follow them.

3. We've had parking restrictions imposed on vast areas because fishermen behavior in the Spring bunker blitzes is appalling, taking dumps in people's bushes, leaving fish racks on peoples' property, and parking in their driveways because "Im in a hurry, the fish are here, and these people probably won't show up to visit their vacation house, so I'm safe" kinds of mentality..

4. We've lost access to the most productive bridges in monmouth county because of internet reports and poor behavior on the part of fishermen that follow....this was something that happened just in 2012, and we're not likely to get that acces back again....

Some of you guys might say to me: "Well I'm not that guy, I don't do things like that..."
I know, even without meeting ya's.,that most of ya's aren't, but how can you be so sure when posting a specific internet report, that is available to countless lurkers. that your report WON'T be the one that broke the camel's back and get access closed down for all of us?
You can't,,,,can you?
Thanks for reading....:)



I was told this post was criticized by 1 or 2 members. They failed to see the consequences of what happens when a small group are selfish and inconsiderate....that's probably because the ones who had an issue with it either...
a. Don't fish the surf very much
b. Are not that good at surf fishing and therefore don't see what we are losing when we lose access.
c. Are just angry self-centered people who don't really much care what effect their actions may have on others.


To the credit of the mods on the site, the argumentative posts were deleted.
I will still try my best to stand up for the rights of fishermen, and fishermen access, even if folks don't agree.
I'll do this because in the long run, I don't care whether it's important to you, or not....it's important to me and a bunch of fishermen I know, so I'll keep rallying for it...and if I seem very critical of those who don't take this seriously, look at the examples above as a partial defense of why I'm doing this....


One of my mentors used to say this:
"Access, once lost, is rarely if ever regained...." :learn:



Thanks for reading, folks.

[storminsteve]

Dark you don't have to explain yourself. You are too nice some times. There are a lot of inconsiderate tools out there. I for one don't want to miss out on fishing in a place because of them and will confront them whenever I see them do stupid stuff. A lot of guys are tough on the internet but little timid mice when you meet them in person. If I ever caught someone taking a dump on private property I would pick it up with a bag like dog crap and rub it in their face. People want to act like dogs, you treat them as such.:kicknuts:

[VSdreams]

Rub their own crap in their face! Love it Steve, bet you would do that too.:clapping:

[jigfreak]

I'm in too, wouldnt give it a 2nd thought. Would love to find a guy crapping on private property, I would make sure he would eat every piece.

[dogfish]

^ Oh so instead of eat s**t and die you prefer to see the guy eat s**t and live.:clapping:
You joisey guys are like a bunch of those thugs from the Sopranos.:laugh: :HappyWave:

[DarkSkies]

For those of you who don't think a favorite place you fish can't be closed down, because it's public, or whatever other reason.....you might want to re-think your position after reading this thread.......


http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?8390-I-have-a-Favorite-Spot-I-Fish-Can-I-Lose-Access

[seamonkey]

http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.pngthe winners for 2013 urban anglers on facebook bunch of arrrogant surf fish wannabees in nj. Fishing the power plant all winter catching fish illegally and bragging about it on facebook. Winning the tourney at abescon by catching 3 keepers to 20 lbs in 30 minutes and then making it down to absecon by 1:30 am. Everyone knows they caught those fish before midningh. call them urban cheaters, call them urban douches. No way are they anglers or sportsmen. Biggest group of spotburners in NJ.

[J Barbosa]

http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.pngthe winners for 2013 urban anglers on facebook bunch of arrrogant surf fish wannabees in nj. Fishing the power plant all winter catching fish illegally and bragging about it on facebook. Winning the tourney at abescon by catching 3 keepers to 20 lbs in 30 minutes and then making it down to absecon by 1:30 am. Everyone knows they caught those fish before midningh. call them urban cheaters, call them urban douches. No way are they anglers or sportsmen. Biggest group of spotburners in NJ.

Bunch of clowns :beatin:

[finchaser]

They su_k and lets not forget the kid who works in a well known shop in Point Pleasant that fished there illegally all winter and told everyone to go there :2flip:

[jigfreak]

Bunch of clowns :beatin:

X2. It amazes me how they pat themselves on the back.
You're a cheater and you are proud and your mom and dad are proud of this?

You post videos and when guys complain how clear it is all they can say is haters go away? These kids think they invented fishing. I have been fishing wwd for decades in different places. Anyone who fishes a lot knows where to get fish in the winter, not a problem.
To invite the whole world back there? This winter it has been the most crowded there it has been in 10 years. I blame these kids directly for that. Doesn't take much skill to catch fish in a fish bowl. Not that I'm saying I never did it. I'm not bragging about it on the internet though. Total low class scum. Urban wiggers.

[Monty]

They su_k and lets not forget the kid who works in a well known shop in Point Pleasant that fished there illegally all winter and told everyone to go there :2flip:

I just did a quick search on google and found their site.
They are a perfect example of some of the scum screwing up this sport of fishing for bass.
Urban Anglers, even has their names on the home page. Young, clueless, stupid, ignorant and disrespectful. Great start to your lives *ssholes.

[paco33]

The latest toolbag posted on the internet yesterday. There was a thread asking about jersey city. This toolbag posted a pic of his 34" fish with the background and named the exact location. His name looks similar to one I have seen here. I hope not. If you read this, I hope you don't fish the piers a lot. If i see you down there I will **** in your bunker bag and dump it on your head. Unbelievable!:mad:

[nitestrikes]

The latest toolbag posted on the internet yesterday. There was a thread asking about jersey city. This toolbag posted a pic of his 34" fish with the background and named the exact location. His name looks similar to one I have seen here. I hope not. If you read this, I hope you don't fish the piers a lot. If i see you down there I will **** in your bunker bag and dump it on your head. Unbelievable!:mad:





Paco I don't know this guy but the behavior is common. There are piers all along the Hudson. The east river has some great spots as well. Some parks in the area are fishermen friendly so you can expect folks will gravitate there. The thing that most don't understand is that to fish effectively you cannot have more than a few out there. This is very important when there is a moon tide and the current is strong. When more than 5-8 try to fish areas of current with bait they end up with tangled lines. The best way to do it is to know the tides. Fish the beginning, middle, or end depending on how the fish are running. When you do that you can fit a few more along the bulkheads, maybe 10, maybe 12. Anymore than that and it is just not fun. With all due respect, it's hard to spot burn the Hudson because the fish are all coming down river now. Some will go under the VZ and out to the bay, others through the Arthur Kill. A majority will go up the East River and move further East. They are catching them at the canal in MA already. These are post hudson bass.
Getting back to the point you made, I get a lot of my larger fish from bulkheads in back bays. Last week we had bunker everywhere and I pulled a few nice bass to 26#. I know enough not to post about it when I am catching.

If someone is posting pics with locations either he is new at it. Or he is so desperate for attention he will try anything to have folks see that he can catch fish. I don't see how you can tell the difference between the 2 unless you know the guy personally. That is why I don't post reports much. Too much internet professors saying what and where the fish are instead of being out there actually fishing. My .02

[fishinmission78]

Drove up to northern nj last nite. Fished it years ago so I thought I was going to pm a few of you here to ask some general advice. I didn't have to because there are 2 spots that are now blown up all over fb. I was at one of them last night along with 50 of my closest friends lol. Managed 5 bass to 26" on plugs. I don't want to say any more but I feel where I was at last night could be closed down real soon. Bonfires, litter, beer bottles. It reminded me of march at graveling point or the power plant some of the places near there were great fishing but residential and now closed.

Why blow up a good thing on facebook? I don't understand why people do this.

[storminsteve]

That sucks! They do it because they must have no life.