Public Trust and access issues in the Town of Islip, Borough of Sayville, LI

[DarkSkies]

I'm wondering what people know about Sayville and the access there? (Islip has jurisdiction)

I had some friends that went there last night. They called the town hall ahead of time and were told you don't need a permit to fish the town docks at night.

About a 1/2 hour after they were fishing at the Sayville public docks, a Town security guard came and told them they had to leave. He said "No one" could fish there, with or without a pertmit.

They quoted the Public Trust and asked him why it didn't apply in this situation? They also asked for his name and title, and he wouldn't give it to them.

Allegedly, as all this was going on, he got a little nervous, and said maybe they could fish there, but by that time they were sick of going back and forth, and didn't want the hassles.

They just wanted to fish, be respectful to the area, and leave that area the same way they found it. They weren't looking for a battle.

On Monday I'm calling the town to clear this up, and see what is and isn't allowed. In the meantime, has anyone had access issues or been turned away from fishing here, or anywhere near there?

I'm asking them to chime in, or contact me via PM.

I would really like to know what the accumulation of reasons is for not allowing fishing there. Thanks.

[amboyangler]

So I decided to head out to Long Island 2 nights ago to try fishing some new waters. I get to a beautiful Dock on the Great South Bay and fish for about 2 hours before dawn before some guy pulls up screaming at the top of his lungs... What the hell are you doing here... You cant fish here.. This is a private bay.... Mind you I called 2 days before the trip to ask questions and explained to the lady on the phone that I was from Jersey and would like to drive over and fish at night. She told me that after 6 PM was fine but that if I planned to stay in the morning past 9 AM, I would have to pay. Anyway, the guy ends up kicking us out. He was like a patrol man with a shirt that read "Township Of Islip". I explained to the guy that I was from Jersey and remained calm and polite the whole time. I told him that I called before the trip and was given this information and he said "Oh that was just a dumb secretary, She Don't Know Nothing". I then brought up the public trust doctrine and he said, hey if you have a problem then take it up with the township of Islip. He did get a little nervous after mentioning the Doctrine and refused to give me his name. I did however take down his license plate number and have his patrol car id number. For the sake of argument I was in West Sayville. I have never ran into a situation like this in Jersey and thought that as fishermen, we were protected against crap like this. Was all of this legal? It just does not seem right.

[strikezone31]

. They called the town hall ahead of time and were told you don't need a permit to fish the town docks at night.

About a 1/2 hour after they were fishing at the Sayville public docks, a Town security guard came and told them they had to leave. .


I don't know if the guard there works for the town or he is a private security guard. You guys should asked to have the police called and asked them what section of the town code you were violating, specifically what ordinance? Of course, if they were to come out for that, you would want to make sure your vehicles has all their registration documents, inspections. Messing around with Johnny Law is ok if you are respectful, but don't give them a reason to cite you.

[basshunter]

Maybe they should be challenged more often. Our fishing rights are always being taken from us.

[DarkSkies]

Well AA, it took me awhile, but I was able to gather a lot of info today, Some nice conversations with various workers in the Township of Islip. These people were all helpful today, I want to state that at the outset. However, there was some confusion among different offices within Islip.

There was also some apprehension when I mentioned the Public Trust Doctrine and tried to ask some respectful questions pertaining to it. At one point I was referred to the Township Attorney.

Not wanting to blow this out of proportion, I kept my questioning to what was and what was NOT permitted. They tried their best to help clear things up, and deserve a lot of respect for the way they handled my questions.

Susan, who works for Public Safety, which are most likely the guards who patrol the marina at the West Ave dock, said she would do her best to find some concrete answers, and I will be speaking to her again early next week.


Background:
The way it was explained to me, Sayville is a Hamlet, among other hamlets, within the Township of Islip, NY. Most of the administrative and procedural matters are handled in Islip, more efficiency that way. All of my questions were directed to Islip employees. It's easy to see how some mis-communication could arise, so I set out to try and clear things up a little.

[DarkSkies]

Town of Islip contact: 631-224-5691

Town Policy:
1. Residents can obtain Recreation Cards with 2 forms of ID, unrestricted access for daily fishing.

2. Non- residents can show D/L and pay $10 to fish any of ther public docks or piers in the daytime.
(Allegedly they just instituted this policy)

3. after 6pm, no permit is needed to fish any of the places below:


West Ave Docks: "Fishing on West Ave is very popular, it gets quite crowded on weekends" Apparently the West Ave docks were recently rebuilt. If any of these places were rebuilt with federal $$, that might be a line of defense in case it's suddenly decided to restrict access to fishermen.

Maple Street Docks, Islip: This is a smaller area to fish, more secluded.

Great River Town Dock, great River: off of Great River road in great River.

[amboyangler]

Town of Islip contact: 631-224-5691

Town Policy:
1. Residents can obtain Recreation Cards with 2 forms of ID, unrestricted access for daily fishing.

2. Non- residents can show D/L and pay $10 to fish any of ther public docks or piers in the daytime.
(Allegedly they just instituted this policy)

3. after 6pm, no permit is needed to fish any of the places below:


West Ave Docks: "Fishing on West Ave is very popular, it gets quite crowded on weekends" Apparently the West Ave docks were recently rebuilt. If any of these places were rebuilt with federal $$, that might be a line of defense in case it's suddenly decided to restrict access to fishermen.

Maple Street Docks, Islip: This is a smaller area to fish, more secluded.

Great River Town Dock, great River: off of Great River road in great River.


Rich, I was in deed at the West Avenue Dock. I also ran the situation past the owner of Chasin Tails Bait & Tackle and he said the he sends people to fish there at night all the time and what that guy did was B.S. :rolleyes:

[DarkSkies]

There was some confusion, so I talked to employees at all of the following:

Public Safety: 631-224-5300
They are in charge of the "Marina guards" that gave AmboyAngler a hard time. I told them the Dept of Marinas and Docks said there were no restrictions of fishing after 6pm. They would be the ones that need to get the instructions out to the guards if it's decided they kicked Amboy out in error.

Code Enforcement: 631-224-5547
I was directed to this office as well because I wasn't able to get a concrete aggrement of when access is, and isn't allowed. They told me they really had no marine jurisdiction, and referred me back to the Dept of Marinas and Docks.

They tried to resolve this by connecting with the Dept of Parks and Recreation. Greg Dawson from that dept said as he understood the rules, fishermen are allowed to fish from 8-9pm, and then the docks were closed down. So if night fishing IS allowed, Greg Dawson will have to be put into the loop as well.

When I mentioned the Public Trust, they also suggested I call the Township Attorney: 631-224-5550


We have differing interpretations here. It's no wonder with all the different departments. As I said, the people who talked to me were courteous and helpful, but we couldn't come to an understanding of what was, and wasn't allowed, and how it fits in with the Public Trust Doctrine.,

My goal is to clarify some of the language they have in their town code and laws, and see specifically why fishermen can't fish there at night.

I'll keep you guys posted as I learn more next week. There are also members here who have done some work trying to improve access there. I know this by PMs they sent me, but I would not publish their comments without consent. So I'm asking these members, or anyone who has any feedback or opinion on this, to weigh in and help us decide how to make sure this doesn't happen again.

Amboy and his friends drove a long way to go fishing there. They were respectful, and thoughtful enough ahead of time to ask what was permitted.

They were given the green light. It's not fair bacause of a mis-communication they were forced to leave. Only the mention of the Public Trust caused the marina guard to reconsider.

Know your rights, guys. We will be facing more and more access restrictions like this in the future. We need to be prepared to stand our ground, respectfully ask why they will not let us fish there, and cite the Public Trust, in cases where it applies.

Copy the Public Trust paragraphs down from this forum and carry it with you, guys. A few choicely written legal paragraphs on paper sometimes have more weight than a carefully phrased question.
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=1044

Know your rights, don't let people trample on you because of your being unaware of them. :thumbsup:

[DarkSkies]

Rich, I was in deed at the West Avenue Dock. I also ran the situation past the owner of Chasin Tails Bait & Tackle and he said the he sends people to fish there at night all the time and what that guy did was B.S. :rolleyes:


I think it's time for a road trip and to bring a video camera to record if we are chased out of there or not. :fishing:

I know you guys don't do anything to embarass fishermen from NJ. I have fished with you guys among filthy conditions where everyone else are slobs, and you all still pick up after yourselves when you leave.

Further, if they used federal funds to rehab that dock, restricting access could be a liability for them. There's 3 places in RB where they had to put "beach access parking" spots in a newer condo development. I think part of that was they got federal funds to clean up the place before they built, and accept federal funds in the case of a bad storm. I'm not exactly sure as to the complete truth of that. All I know is we have bayshore access in a ritzy area, and they were required to grant that access.

These things get ugly when there are accusations slinging back and forth. For now, I'd like to wait for their answers, and then decide what to do. Still waiting for any members who live near there to give us further feedback.

In the meantime, I really feel like a midnight road trip there this weekend. :naughty:

[amboyangler]

I think it's time for a road trip and to bring a video camera to record if we are chased out of there or not. :fishing:

I know you guys don't do anything to embarass fishermen from NJ. I have fished with you guys among filthy conditions where everyone else are slobs, and you all still pick up after yourselves when you leave.

Further, if they used federal funds to rehab that dock, restricting access could be a liability for them. There's 3 places in RB where they had to put "beach access parking" spots in a newer condo development. I think part of that was they got federal funds to clean up the place before they built, and accept federal funds in the case of a bad storm. I'm not exactly sure as to the complete truth of that. All I know is we have bayshore access in a ritzy area, and they were required to grant that access.

These things get ugly when there are accusations slinging back and forth. For now, I'd like to wait for their answers, and then decide what to do. Still waiting for any members who live near there to give us further feedback.

In the meantime, I really feel like a midnight road trip there this weekend. :naughty:

I'm up for it... Only day I would be able to do it is Monday Night..... because I am off Tuesday.

[xladyfaust]

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