Sea bird behavior and what it tells us

[DarkSkies]

I started this in response to an answer I gave a guy who seemed to be frustrated with the birds he was following in his boat. Here's my experiences. Remember there are lots of additional variations of what I have seen.

"When you see birds, try to classify in your mind what they are doing. Birds will organize themselves around bait, even if there are no fish feeding, so that's why you will see them sitting in the middle of the water sometimes.

The circling and sporadic diving signifies they have found bait they can reach, while just circling can signify they have found bait that is not yet accessible.

The easiest bird behavior to identify is when they are diving on fish that are blitzing, but as mentioned previously, there are other behaviors you can look for, and variations of the ones I mentioned, that will also help you to find fish. Hope this helps. "





If any one else has perspectives or experiences to add to this, I would appreciate hearing them.

[plugcrazy]

Seagulls and Salmon

7cPs6ibv-6U


working the birds

RoanI3joDKw

[DarkSkies]

Thanks for posting up the videos, Plugcrazy. Gunny/Stripercoast1 also put up a good thread about birds and the 3 types of blitzes. I thought of that after I posted this thread. I thought of combining them, but his is pretty specific and deserves it's own space, good read. :thumbsup:

Here's a link to it:
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=5061 (http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=5061&highlight=blitzes)

[vpass]

I have also seen seagulls near the water edge feeding on beached peanuts. from a distance it look like they where just sitting around, but what was out of place was the wind was blow NW and they where face E. Seagulls almost alway face the wind. I investigated and got into a memorable blitz. It was this time of the year 2003.

[cowherder]

Seagulls almost alway face the wind. I investigated and got into a memorable blitz. It was this time of the year 2003.

I never noticed that until I read it here. I did notice that when they are gathered up on the shore it means either bad weather is coming or they are waiting for food at some future time. Like they may have seen baitfish yesterday for an hour, and they show up today because those baitfish might show up today. Thanks vpass.

[DarkSkies]

I'm posting this to help to educate us about what kinds of birds gannets are, what they eat, and what their behavior means.

I decided it was necessary because at a few other places there are some people talking about the following:

1. Gannets diving on adult bunker.
2. Gannets being in the RB on small bait "like bay anchovies".

I don't want to get into pizzing contests with anyone here or in cyberspace. If the above scenarios are what the people reporting them believe they saw, it's certainly possible. But realistically, I think we need to educate people as to the behavior and feeding habits of gannets so people have a better idea of what they're seeing and why they're seeing it...

(and if they saw gannets at all. :huh: It's quite common for some people to confuse seagulls with gannets.)

However, if you have been around and fishing for a number of years, you learn to distinguish the difference. To me, there is no mistaking the dive bombing Kamikaze ferociousness of gannet behavior. :learn:

I love watching them crash on bait, knowing that often there are big bass underneath. Frequently the gannets are the only indicator that the bass are there, as feeding bass will sometimes not even break the surface if there are only a few bass and the school of forage fish is large enough.



To begin with, gannets take a high speed dive into the water to get their food. It's a pretty cool sight to watch. They primarily feed on herring and similar sized bigger bait in the ocean because that's the right size food for them. They could kill themselves if diving on tightly packed schools of horse bunker. They do eat adult bunker given the right conditions.

As for smaller bait like anchovies, it might be possible, but they would rather eat herring and bait in that size range. The ideal size range is indicated in bold below. I did this to show that all things are possible, but you have to ask yourself as a fisherman which scenarios are likely.

That's why when spotted in early Spring and late Fall they're a great indicator of herring schools. You see them a lot early and late season when the herring are moving through an area. As mentioned, they could also be on bunker, if the bunker are not densely packed.

You can see them in the deeper bay waters, or the ocean. Whenever you see them, it's an awesome sight. :thumbsup:

[DarkSkies]

10728

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"Gannets are plunge divers and will dive into the sea from heights of 100 feet or more in pursuit of
caplin, herring, mackerel, menhaden, squid, and other prey."
http://www.shltrip.com/Crossing_Delaware_Bay.html



[* Notice here it says "menhaden" which are bunker. I specifically looked for a quote describing all the fish gannets are known to dive for so people would learn that there are differences. Gannets will never pass a meal up of peanuts or juvenile bunker And there are times wehn they will feed on adult bunker if the bunker are not tightly schooled. As it says, they are opportunistic feeders. The "small anchovies" that others reported them diving on was more likely schools of large spearing, which we have recently noted to be in the area. I just wanted to clear that up. ]

[DarkSkies]

Gannet behavior I:

It's most likely that gannets found along our Eastern US coastline are northern gannets.

http://bna.birds.cornell.edu/bna/species/693/articles/introduction


Introduction

http://bna.birds.cornell.edu/bna/species/693/galleries/photos/JWC_n_gannet_ad_w_chick/image_column Adult Northern Gannets, with chick
http://bna.birds.cornell.edu/bna/species/693/galleries/figures/figure-1/image_column Figure 1. Distribution of the Northern Gannet in North America.

This heavyweight among the plunge-divers of the world breeds in often huge, always dense, and extremely raucous colonies on precipitous mainland cliffs, islands, and stacks. As a breeding bird, the Northern Gannet is confined to the continental-shelf waters on both sides of the North Atlantic. In the eastern North Atlantic, it is distributed in 32 colonies from the coast of Brittany in France north to Norway, with its main concentration north and west of Scotland (Nelson 2002 (http://bna.birds.cornell.edu/bna/species/693/articles/species/693/biblio/bib055)). In North America, it is restricted to just 6 well-established colonies: 3 in the Gulf of St. Lawrence, Québec, and 3 in the North Atlantic off the coast of Newfoundland.

This species is monomorphic, with sexes similar in size and appearance. Pairs usually bond monogamously for life, and both mates participate in all aspects of parental care, though sharing of the activities varies over the course of the nesting cycle. The species has a rich repertoire of picturesque sexual and aggressive behaviors for maintaining pair bonds and living in close contact with its neighbors. The female lays a single egg, which is incubated under the highly vascularized webs of the feet (gannets do not have a brood patch).

Hatchlings are altricial, with essentially no motor coordination or thermoregulatory capacity, but they develop rapidly during the 13-week nestling period, attaining peak weights at 8–9 weeks of age of up to 50% more than adults. At 13 weeks, chicks depart from nest sites by jumping from their nesting ledges and flying/gliding 400–500 meters from the colony into the water. Unable to rise from the water because of their excessive weight and still without fully developed wing muscles, they begin a southward migration to middle Atlantic regions. Mortality during the first year is high, but those birds that survive have a strong tendency to return during their second or third year to the same colony in which they were hatched.

Like other seabirds, the Northern Gannet takes several years to attain adult plumage, going through various stages of mottled dark-and-white plumages before becoming pure white with black wing-tips at 4–5 years of age. At maturity, the male begins the arduous process of acquiring a breeding site in the colony and attracting a mate. Once acquired, it is likely to be the pair’s nest site for the rest of their lives, where they will raise 1 chick per year. Reproductive success (that is, eggs producing fledging young) at colonies is generally high (>75%), and most colonies today are increasing in population size at a rate of about 3.0–3.5% per year.

The Northern Gannet is a voracious forager, feeding on shoaling fish by plunge-diving. As an opportunistic feeder, it utilizes prey species as they become available through the season, but prefers larger (more than 30.0 cm), more energy-rich (7.0 kJ/g) species over smaller, lower-energy species, and often forages up to several hundred kilometers from its nesting colony to locate such prey. The average annual harvest of squid and mackerel (Scomber scombrus) in Newfoundland by Northern Gannets often exceeds that of the total commercial landings (Montevecchi et al. 1988 (http://bna.birds.cornell.edu/bna/species/693/articles/species/693/biblio/bib044)). Foraging is not without its risks, and mortality of adult gannets is fairly high as a result of fishing accidents, entanglement in nets, and, albeit less today than in the past, persecution by fishermen.

[DarkSkies]

Gannet behavior II

Gannets on pilchards
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http://www.answers.com/topic/solan-goose-1
Ecology
Gannet pairs may remain together over several seasons. They perform elaborate greeting rituals at the nest, stretching their bills and necks skywards and gently tapping bills together.

They are migratory (http://www.answers.com/topic/migrate) and most winter at sea, heading further south in the Atlantic.

These birds are spectacular divers, plunging into the ocean at high speed. Although they are pul and agile fliers, they are clumsy in takeoffs and landings. They mainly eat small fish (http://www.answers.com/topic/fish) (2.5-30.5 cm in length) which gather in groups near the surface. Virtually any small fish (roughly 80-90% of the diet) or other small pelagic (http://www.answers.com/topic/pelagic-zone) species (largely squid (http://www.answers.com/topic/squid)) will be taken opportunistically.

**Various cod (http://www.answers.com/topic/cod), smelt (http://www.answers.com/topic/smelts) and herring (http://www.answers.com/topic/herring) species are most frequently taken.[4] (http://www.answers.com/topic/solan-goose-1#cite_note-3)

Although Northern Gannet populations are now stable, their numbers were once greatly reduced due to loss of habitat (http://www.answers.com/topic/habitat-70), removal of eggs and killing of adults.
Predators of eggs and nestlings include great black-backed (http://www.answers.com/topic/great-black-backed-gull-1) and herring gulls (http://www.answers.com/topic/herring-gull), common ravens (http://www.answers.com/topic/common-raven), ermine (http://www.answers.com/topic/stoat) and red fox (http://www.answers.com/topic/red-fox). The only known natural predator of adults is the bald eagle (http://www.answers.com/topic/bald-eagle), though large sharks (http://www.answers.com/topic/shark) and seals (http://www.answers.com/topic/pinniped) may rarely snatch a gannet out at sea.[5] (http://www.answers.com/topic/solan-goose-1#cite_note-4)

Old names for the Northern Gannet include solan, solan goose and solant bird.





Gannets on sardines
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[finchaser]

listen up cause SOS knows birds:HappyWave:

[gjb1969]

hey dark u are going to open upa can of worms with the bird stuff get worms bird stuff:rolleyes:

[CharlieTuna]

Don't worry about the ball busting Dark, you know that's because we like you.:HappyWave: I think you did a good job with the gannet info. And you are right, I am amazed at how many people confuse seagulls with gannets. Online research is so easy now. When I grew up we had to go the library to do this stuff.

[baitstealer]

The birds tell us when SOS is around doing his scouting.:d

[cardoc765]

There are a couple scenarios fo birds out on the water that I want to see what you guys know or think about.

The infamous one is birds actually working an area a diving all over that spot. No need to comment on this one, because we all know what that is all about.

How about seeing a flock of birds swarming in the air circling an area, but never diving into the water? It's almost as if they have spotted bait, but can't get to it.

The 3rd is all the birds just sitting in a area after they swarmed around it a few minutes?

Do the 2nd two scenarios mean anything to us as fisherman? What are you guys thoughts?

[CharlieTuna]

There are a couple scenarios fo birds out on the water that I want to see what you guys know or think about.

The infamous one is birds actually working an area a diving all over that spot. No need to comment on this one, because we all know what that is all about.


Do the 2nd two scenarios mean anything to us as fisherman? What are you guys thoughts?


2.How about seeing a flock of birds swarming in the air circling an area, but never diving into the water? It's almost as if they have spotted bait, but can't get to it.

3.The 3rd is all the birds just sitting in a area after they swarmed around it a few minutes?

Cardoc for #2 above it could be that the bait is too deep. They see the profile but cannot reach it, so they circle.
For #3 if could be if they are on the water that again the bait is not within reach and they are waiting for the fish to push it up closer to the surface.

There was a good thread on bird behavior here -
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=5061

[rip316]

I was right Cardoc. Dynamic duo buddy.

[storminsteve]

listen up cause SOS knows birds:HappyWave:

:laugh: I guess you really do know your birds DS. Grats to you and Stripercoast for laying down this info. I saw birds the other day, not many fish under them. But last week in ocean county I saw gannets diving just beyond our casts. I also saw boats in the area hooking up, I'm assuming they were over bass and some kind of big bait.
It's a thrill to watch them kamikaze dive into the water. I checked out that other thread you have highlighted too. Thanks guys for sharing your knowledge.

[Pebbles]

12484

http://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/s/seagulls.asp

[DarkSkies]

hey dark u are going to open upa can of worms with the bird stuff get worms bird stuff:rolleyes:

What can I say, G! :laugh:

And Pebbles, what can I say, she can bust me anytime, special priveleges....;) :heart:


*****
I came across a large body of bait the other night, in 46 degree water...with a few hundred birds sitting on them. the birds wouldn't move despite the diffulty they had in maintaining their position.

In situations like that, it's always a good idea to work the area for predators, There weren't many there, but at least I worked it hard to find that out....

Thanks again to Ed for his perspective as well.

[DarkSkies]

Birds and Winter Herring......

Back in late December when the water was a little warmer there were schools of herring......
Most of these schools didn't have bass under them, they just moved up and down the coast....

As opposed to bunker, which sometimes stay closer to the surface as they feed, these herring were only visible by looking for a dark stain....

The birds could see them, though....with crystal clear clarity and perfect vision they would gather around the schools waiting for something to happen...it often never did, but the birds would wait anyway......

The following are pics I took one such cold dreary morning....

Thought some of ya's might like to see what I saw, the subtle signs......

[DarkSkies]

Stage 1 - the birds know the fish are there. They can see them and sometimes smell them, but there is no real activity from predators. So the birds will tend to group up where the bait is.

Some groups sit exactly over them on the water waiting for something to happen. Others sit on the shore looking for telltale clues from the ones over the fish that the action is ramping up.


16088


16089


16090


The above pics show a group of birds sitting on a school of herring about 250' out....it's hard to see because it is a cloudy day. I took very large pics to study this at home, but had to downsize them to post. For anyone who finds it hard to see the best advice I can give is you can sometimes tell, if there is a lot of bait, where you will see a portion of the water stained darker than the rest.

With bunker it's easier to tell, because they are sometimes feeding on top.
Maybe others have experienced differently, but I have never found herring feeding on top in the daytime....it's usually the case that they are more mid-level, suspended from the bottom. So with herring, you need to be a little more perceptive than with bunker. :learn: If you want to do the same scouting, you have to teach yourself to recognize signs that bait is there, even when there are no predators to make it obvious.




As I post the rest of the pics, some viewers with sharp eyes will notice the herring as the darker stain I am talking about.
I believe this day there were 2 distinct bands of herring, one larger and one smaller.
It's hard to see that from these pics.

I prefer to do most of my scouting on overcast days....

I wish these pics could show a little more detail. This is the best I could come up with. In any event, they and the descriptions listed should help folks learn some of the things to look for. Hope you all find these helpful. :HappyWave:

[surferman]

You really do some serious scouting dark. I guess it pays off in the long run. Thanks for sharing the information.

[finchaser]

Beg to differ with you here my friend
Looks like birds sitting in the water to stay warm or resting on the water where they lost sight of the bait, its the last know spot they saw bait . We follow this pattern in the boat bass and tuna fishing as we start a search pattern near the sitting birds usually in the direction the current is running. Birds fly high in the sky over herring and other schools of bait so they can keep an eye on them as they move around allot sometimes at fast speeds. The higher the birds the deeper the bait, lower flying birds usually indicate fish are pushing bait to surface and it may be an easy meal. This holds true for most seabirds except for gulls which hang on the beach. All sea birds always face into the wind as it don't ruffle their feathers. Most importantly waiting for the smell of a baits scent given off when they are being attacked. On the ocean bunker being attacked give off the smell of rotten eggs

[buckethead]

^^ bickering again finchaser? You two fight more than cats and dogs. Why don't you give the guy a break? On 2nd thought don't bother, I'll just go buy some popcorn and watch.:HappyWave:

[finchaser]

^^ bickering again finchaser? You two fight more than cats and dogs. Why don't you give the guy a break? On 2nd thought don't bother, I'll just go buy some popcorn and watch.:HappyWave:

Not bickering if your going to report facts report em right or don't report them by what you think is happening. He asks me to give my imput to help teach people here so it's not like other sites. I don't know why I even waste my time around here.

[bababooey]

Beg to differ with you here my friend
On the ocean bunker being attacked give off the smell of rotten eggs

I don't know finchaser don't want to stand on the toes of you surf sharpies but it does look like the water is stained a bit under those birds. And it seemed to me he referenced herring not bunker. Unless there are rocks underneath it does look like it could be fish under them. (With all due respect) I wish he would have taken better pics though. Dark you MUST take clearer pics from now on!:beatin: We also want to see the background and the building markers too so we can follow your exact footsteps.;)
Finchaser don't know why you would get so rattled over this. Isn't everyone entitled to speak?

[hookset]

I say we put dark and finchaser in a steel cage. Give them their weapons of choice, and the one who walks out is the winner. Unless it's a submerged jetty it looks like a stain in the water to me too, but what do I know. I only fish 5 nights a week. Seriously guys I think we all have a case of cabin fever. The only thing that can fix that is catching some fish. As far as bass goes that is probably at least 4 weeks away until some larger ones come up from where they have migrated to offshore of Va. I heard they are now about 20 miles off. That really sucks but it will be good for the stocks as less are able to target them. Just my .02 hope no one was offended.:HappyWave:

[bababooey]

I say we put dark and finchaser in a steel cage. Give them their weapons of choice, and the one who walks out is the winner.


One of my favorite clips 2 men enter one man leaves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHU6K47qgc8

Finchaser I hope you are not offended by anything I said if so please accept my apologies. I think you all have a case of the cabin fever. But if you ask me you surf guys are mental anyway.:laugh: :HappyWave:

[finchaser]

No apologies necessary from anyone just having a really really bad day. Water is stained or a shadow from a cloud, but I know where and when these were taken and sea herring schools don't look like that. Where these were taken is an area that the dirty water from up north goes offshore with the current and gulls wait for garbage ,also seabirds not gulls follow bait

I also wrote this because we discussed this on the phone, he also thought this happened in the inlet around Christmas bait doesn't ball up unless there are fish under them and then the birds work over it. I explained birds rest on water many times when water is warmer than air check out Manasquan inlet it's loaded with gull resting on the water everyday.



Hope no one takes offense and you all have a great season.:HappyWave:Back to my Kettle One.

[storminsteve]

No apologies necessary from anyone just having a really really bad day.
Hope no one takes offense and you all have a great season.:HappyWave:Back to my Kettle One.

We all have bad days finchaser. If you want your bad days to end you should dump dark and let me do the scouting for you. ds does not take clear pics, those stains in the water could be sunken boats for all we know! All you have to do is put me on the cell phone relay and I will do all the scouting you want, at your service.:HappyWave:(just kidding dark, maybe:laugh: ) by the way what the heck is a kettle one?

[buckethead]

You can tell it's winter when we are going back and forth bickering over whether a stain in the water is herring or not. Inquiring minds want to know fin chaser. What is Kettle one are you cooking herring for valentines dinner?;) :HappyWave:

[finchaser]

Vodka

[surfstix1963]

Ah Kettle nice vodka,it's either Grey Goose or Kettle for me on the rocks sometimes out of the bottle when I have a bad day.

[storminsteve]

Umm you said kettle one. Ketel One? Why didn't you say so party on dudes!:plastered::HappyWave:

[DarkSkies]

A few thoughts on this, and then hopefully we can move on......:HappyWave:


The birds were sitting on herring.
There were no bunker around at the time and the only thing that body of fish under them could have been.... was herring.
Unfortunately there were no bass around at the time...this was late December and the fishing action had ground to a standstill....most of the migrating fish had moved South at that time.....a rash of cold spells and small noreasters was one probable cause in that happening.......

This caused a situation where where there schools of herring around, moving in and out of the the inlets and **other areas.
**For the most part there were no bass to harass or feed on these herring so in many cases they went unmolested.

I was one of the first to scout these herring, having found them soon after things cleared up from the hurricane and the ocean stabilized a bit.
Despite being told they never ventured far past the mouth of an inlet, I was finding them in deepwater harbors and other deep channel areas well beyond the inlet mouths......

I was also one of the lucky first to catch fish at night in inlets after the storm, despite being told it wasn't a night bite....and discovering that (in some limited cases)with some teen fish, that it was....

[DarkSkies]

**Sometime after everyone (including the old timers) thought they had also vanished, on one of my scouting trips I found adult bunker in the back of a NJ River.....

I''m not going to talk about the bunker here, or it may get too confusing...;) :rolleyes:






Just the Herring......
The fish that I spotted and took pics of, were herring....with no bass in the area to pursue them, they leisurely made their way South along the beaches until they got to some of the inlets...and came in.......

This may not be the way that folks usually come upon pods of herring, but that was the case in late December 2012.

These herring pics were taken in the ocean.......
there were no rocks, or submerged boats. I know all the boulder fields out there intimately....:kooky: and can assure the readers there were no submerged boulder fields where those stains in the pics are....directly under those herring was nothing but sandy bottom.....








Sometimes, we are mistaken in our observations. :huh:
On a sunny day with clouds, it's easy to mistake cloud cover for "stains" in the water....when I took the pics it was a nasty, dreary, raw, overcast day......no shadows from clouds.


I'm far from perfect....and only human.....
Fin, while accurate 99% of the time.....
is not perfect either...........
And he was not accurate for this 1% ....(.although I will probably never live it down as he can't admit when he is wrong) :HappyWave:

I stand by my statement that those were herring.......

Suffice it to say we don't always fish the same areas......
A. When the herring showed up no bass were chasing them initially.....further proof of this is that one of the Bogans was out fishing for bass one day during this time.....they were livelining herring, and still no bass were caught....:don't know why:

B. This lasted for about a week, until the first weekend of January........
If you go to Colin the Average Angler's website...:HappyWave: you can find exactly when he was talking about the herring showing up, with bass on them....almost a week after I took these pics. :learn:


I might also mention that when you all saw me "bickering" back and forth with the old grouchy basstid here in Jan, and he was saying "the fish were gone, there was no night bite" (though truthfully the old timers had just started getting them end of day).....

And he was yelling at me telling me I was a fool for fishing at night.......
After I found them, & got over 100 fish in the 3 nights after that.... he stopped yelling for awhile........:moon: :HappyWave:

[DarkSkies]

To wrap up........

1. I hope you folks got a little info from the herring pics I shared.

2. I'm not fighting with Finchaser.....he has imparted too much knowledge for me to disrepect him.....and he has forgotten, more than I will ever know....about fishing. :thumbsup:

3. I don't have a camera like he has....that grouchy basstid can take pics of the dingleberries on a rat's A** :laugh: with his prosumer camera......lots of times I have to think about the pics I post, before I post them....to prevent lurkers from pinpointing the location......I am reminded daily when seeing the pics that others post, that these considerations don't mean anything to them....Fin and I talk about that all the time.......different world out there today.......

4. Nonetheless....I do appreciate it when he barks at me......my Dad used to do the same, much worse......so Finchaser yelling is nothing like I was used to growing up...in fact I consider it an honor to be yelled at by the Old Grouchy Basstid...if a week goes by and he doesn't yell at me for something, I worry about the crusty old barnacle.....;) :kiss:
So you members who are concerned, please let it roll on by....(buckethead..... liked the "bickering" observation.....:HappyWave:)

5. I can't say anything more on this, or at 6pm tonight Vito, Pasquale, and Nunzio will show up at my door telling me I have to take a ride with them..shopping for cement shoes.....:ROFLMAO
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?8663-NJ-Tackle-Shops-Who-s-Open/page3











Hope you folks enjoyed the info, and learned some things as well.
I hope I don't come off the wrong way in these threads, or any other threads here...........

Everything I learned in fishing, I learned the hard way....many many nights of not catching.....and not being able to see patterns......
I still get criticized for the massive blocks of time I spend out there hunting for fish when they are around....
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?3857-The-life-of-a-nomad-tips-for-on-the-road-fishin/page8&highlight=nomad+fishing

**If I came across the wrong way I apologize.......

I do know my abilities., and having spent so much time out there, I know this Winter bite very well, sometimes better than friends who live down next to the water.........but I will always be grateful for different opinions.......and the knowledge the OGB has generously imparted....:thumbsup:


When you consider all the opinions that go out on different internet websites, half of them being inaccurate and misleading......the opinions and characterizations of Fin and the Old Farts at Castaways really are worth listening to, and in many cases are spot-on explanations for what is happening, at that moment.....:fishing:

[cowherder]

**If I came across the wrong way I apologize.......

I do know my abilities., and having spent so much time out there, I know this Winter bite very well, sometimes better than friends who live down next to the water.........but I will always be grateful for different opinions.......and the knowledge the OGB has generously imparted....:thumbsup:


When you consider all the opinions that go out on different internet websites, half of them being inaccurate and misleading......the opinions and characterizations of Fin and the Old Farts at Castaways really are worth listening to, and in many cases are spot-on explanations for what is happening, at that moment.....:fishing:


They seem like they really know when the fish are around. Appreciate you sharing that here. Will have to take a ride down there one day to meet them.

[finchaser]

fished this morning before blow some bigger fish were pushed in all between 24 and 32 inches I had 2 to 28 my friend had 6 to 32 and my other friend had at 2 to 27 all were released all caught on 2 ounce Hopkins believe they were chasing sea herring as gannets were diving..

[storminsteve]

dark I hate to stir the pot but I can't help myself!
finchaser was fishing this morning and the gannets were diving on herring. I posted this in the nj fishing reports-


all were released all caught on 2 ounce Hopkins believe they were chasing sea herring as gannets were diving. .finchaser Are you and dark going to get into another fight about herring and gannets this year? Looking forward to it. I'll cook some popcorn.:HappyWave:

dark Where were you with the camera? Enquiring minds want to know.:laugh:

[Monty]

This is a great thread.
Thanks for bringing it to the top SS.

[DarkSkies]

dark I hate to stir the pot but I can't help myself!
finchaser was fishing this morning and the gannets were diving on herring. I posted this in the nj fishing reports-

finchaser Are you and dark going to get into another fight about herring and gannets this year? Looking forward to it. I'll cook some popcorn.:HappyWave:

dark Where were you with the camera? Enquiring minds want to know.:laugh:

Steve, I said Pebbles and I were making soup and you wanted some.....
Now ya want to see me and Fin :argue: ?
No soup for you! :moon:
Don't worry, we :argue: enough on a regular basis that we don't have to do it here on the internet.....


Sorry to disappoint.....
I've turned over a new leaf....my new goal is to be as mellow as Monty.....:kooky::rolleyes:(without the premise of bail money) :laugh: :HappyWave:






** BTW if anyone is thinking about going out and getting winter herring...they are starting to show up.....The OGB scouted them out.....:kiss:

[storminsteve]

aaah you're as bad as the soup nazi ds.:ROFLMAO you know I was just busting I hope! I really do enjoy that back and forth between you and finchaser. Maybe I was a little bored when I posted that. Fishing is ending way too early this season. thanks for the news on the herring.

[barrys]

This bird is going to do other stuff until spring.




http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=bird+sledding+down+roof&FORM=VIRE3#view=detail&mid=86B3273929F50374CD2386B3273929F50374CD23

[williehookem]

Very cool. Who would have thougt that birds could learn that.

[Blazin420]

What about the comorants or loons what ever they are:don't know why:you no the ones that dive under for a few then pop up some where else..I always seem to find a few fish when ever they are in front of me or near by..I use them as a way to find some sort of bait in the water when i cant physically see it..Am i right in thinking this? I like to think that if they are in the area its got to be for a reason like a easy meal:don't know why:i always see them this time of year by the rocks...Had 1 yesterday infront of me for a good hour or so and sure enuff i found a fish right where he was diving..Just curious what you "bird pros":dthink!

[Monty]

.Just curious what you "bird pros":dthink!
Darkskies is a Bird Guru.
He should be all over this.
Whenever I have a bird question he is the guy I turn to.
Be it Swans, Loons, Terns, Cormorants... if it has wings and is in water he is the GTBG (Go To Bird Guy).

[finchaser]

Fished this morning got 2 small washed out looking resident fish lots of loons diving and coming up with sand eels water down to 42 the end is near will try this afternoon as the afternoon bite seems better than the morning.

[Monty]

:HappyWave:


17856

[DarkSkies]

if it has wings and is in water he is the GTBG (Go To Bird Guy).

Every time I try to distance myself from this rep, it's friends like you who pull me back in to it...:moon: :2flip:
That was funny though, thanks for the laughs....:clapping: :HappyWave:
Maybe I can help out with a few thoughts.......

Note...
Finchaser is the real bird expert, although he will flat out deny this....:laugh:

I've been out tuna fishing with him and he spotted a small group of tuna chicks from a mile away, without binocs....pretty impressive when you consider these birds fly very close to the water. :thumbsup:
He also can go on and on....an on....about any bird out there......much more than I can.....if you need a birdwatching guide, book him now....he has special Winter Rates.......;) :HappyWave:






What about the comorants or loons what ever they are:don't know why:you no the ones that dive under for a few then pop up some where else..I always seem to find a few fish when ever they are in front of me or near by..I use them as a way to find some sort of bait in the water when i cant physically see it..Am i right in thinking this? I like to think that if they are in the area its got to be for a reason like a easy meal:don't know why:

Blazin and others, good analysis and deduction. Some birds are lazy and in my experience tend to hang out where the most abundant source of food is. Looking at their behavior and figuring out what and why, has definitely helped me to catch more fish.

There are certain times of year when I analyze bird crap in key areas...it gives me clues as to what they are feeding on and if the seasonal forage I'm looking for is there in any numbers.

Cormorant/Loon Change-over......Finchaser already mentioned it and has talked about it in the past.
When the water gets colder and the season transitions into Winter, many of the cormorants leave and are replaced by loons. To me they are pretty cool birds, I love watching them...
These are what you most likely saw, in the area you were fishing....




Some of our Fall Saltwater Birds......

1. Cormorants:
I do kind of dislike the cormorants though...as they have decimated some key forage species in certain areas, and are hated for doing that. There are some communities where they have decimated the trout so badly that private citizens put a bounty on killing them. The problem is they will eat just about anything. If a juvenile forage fish population is in a fragile stage, they can, and have, wiped that population out of that area. I really don't like them, and think of them as the welfare cheats of the bird world. (JMO) :d

On my kayak trips to the LI Sound I see them by the hundreds on the rocky islands out there. They also like to hang out near bridges, canals, and inlets. They know when the fish are there, those areas will have the highest concentrations.



2. Loons:
As fin and others mentioned, they come in when the water gets cold as part of their Winter migration south. They are often accompanied by these small seagulls known as Bonaparte's gulls.

If you see birds swimming in areas and diving down this time of year, they are likely to be loons. (As opposed to gannets, which usually circle in the air, and have the remarkable plunge dives as their way of catching)
I remember trips to Quebec fishing for pike on remote lakes. A day was not complete unless you heard or saw one of these cool looking birds on the water. Their call has given birth to the phrase "crazy as a loon"...which is probably how some of the fishermen out there describe me...:)

Loon behavior - they will swim in the water with their heads just below, scanning for food....When they find it they dive down quickly and grab it. I never get tired of watching them. Right now they are likely feeding on sand eels but will eat many tiny things that move.



3. Bonaparte's gulls:
They often are found around loons when loons are actively searching for food. They will circle around them at times, knowing that they are good hunters. They use the loons to find areas where fish are most highly concentrated.
They summer up north, Maine to Canada, and are (usually) only found down in our area this time of year, on a migrational path down to Southern US, Gulf of Mexico, and parts of Mexico/Central America for the Winter. (you will also see more snowy owls in barrier areas this time of year as well, as they too make stops on their southern migrational path)

Bonaparte's gulls are one of the smallest gulls out there. The black head that they sometimes have, is not always apparent this time of year. They change a bit during the molting process and mostly look like other gulls, but with a black spot near the head.

They fly along above the water looking for small fish (IE rainfish, spearing, small sand eels). They sometimes dive in when they spot bait close to the surface or when foraging fish push it upwards in the water column.






**Learning about these birds and their behavior is a good way become a better fisherman. :learn:

I'm always poking and prodding around rocks, inlets, and sod banks, and bridges when I'm out there to see what forage fish are around. This knowledge is exciting to me. Letting birds do part of your scouting for you is a smart strategy for any fisherman who wants to catch more fish. :fishing:

[DarkSkies]

I mentioned the difference in color on Bonaparte's gulls. Here are a few pics. Note that in our area we are more likely to see just the black dot on the head, which may help you to distinguish them from other gulls.
17857



This pic represents what you are more likely to see, right now.
17858



Some videos of these birds feeding, etc........

This is of Bonaparte's gulls on the water. You can see most of them have molted and are most easily identified by the black spot behind the eyes.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2V3I7foipE




Loon looking for food......to me, they are one of our most interesting looking Winter birds....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrTPw7lV1j0

[seamonkey]

Good read ds thanks for sharing.

[albiealert]

Awesome read thank you for posting that ds. You are right about the Sound. We may not have as much diversity as you do but have cormorants up the ying yang. They are all over.

[nitestrikes]

^^^^^ In china it's worse. They use them to fish and some of the chinese rivers are overfished because of it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ4Fujsr274

[Monty]

**Learning about these birds and their behavior is a good way become a better fisherman. :learn:


Awesome read GTBG, thank you!

[Blazin420]

Terrific info DS Thanks!! And thanks for the videos..I had both of those birds by me i belive on Tuesdays outing..Never new about the gulls just assumed they were the realur ones seen on the beach..Im ALWAYS looking to inform myself of was in the areas i fish..Like you said i look at the bird crap on the rocks to get an idea of whats on the menu..along with flipping rtocks to see what lies beneth ..My next time out im bringing my good camera to get some shots for my log book...Im also looking to figure out the different types of crabs.. saw a few different kinds walking the sand tuesday but that can be a different thread!

[buckethead]

Well done ds. blazin there is a thread on crabs that is pretty interesting.
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?4445-Crabology-101-All-about-crabs-and-bait

[Blazin420]

Thanks for the link buckethead!! Thats what i was looking for!

[DarkSkies]

Terrific info DS Thanks!! Like you said i look at the bird crap on the rocks to get an idea of whats on the menu..along with flipping rtocks to see what lies beneth ..

M...and others.....thanks for the kind words....There aren't many of us out there who will go to that extent....I felt like some of the mooks here would have busted my balls about that...it's definitely an indication of compulsiveness......I think if you're doing it, it shows how far gone you are, as well.....:kooky: :laugh: :thumbsup:

I don't think there's a cure.....except to catch a fish to make all those hours seem justified.......:fishing: :HappyWave:

[hookset]

fished this morning before blow some bigger fish were pushed in all between 24 and 32 inches I had 2 to 28 my friend had 6 to 32 and my other friend had at 2 to 27 all were released all caught on 2 ounce Hopkins believe they were chasing sea herring as gannets were diving..


Here's the troll question of the week, either dark or finchaser can answer or anyone else who thinks he knows. I was out scouting the surf last week and looking for some new places to fish. I came across these birds sitting on the water. It was pretty warm that day the land must of been 60 degrees the water was about 39 (used a baby thermometer). Can anyone tell me why those birds were sitting on the cold water instead of the warm sand? Herring or shad under them? Maybe sandeels? This was by an inlet btw. thanks

1808018081

[Monty]

These two were not saying much this morning.....

18157

[finchaser]

Here's the troll question of the week, either dark or finchaser can answer or anyone else who thinks he knows. I was out scouting the surf last week and looking for some new places to fish. I came across these birds sitting on the water. It was pretty warm that day the land must of been 60 degrees the water was about 39 (used a baby thermometer). Can anyone tell me why those birds were sitting on the cold water instead of the warm sand? Herring or shad under them? Maybe sandeels? This was by an inlet btw. thanks

1808018081

Birds sit on the water the last place they either see bait or feed on it waiting for it to surface again

[DarkSkies]

^ You people don't know what a bird expert the OGB is.....he has an extensive collection of bird pics......:d
And can spot tuna chicks at sea miles before anyone else can.....:thumbsup: :HappyWave:

[baitstealer]

Birds sit on the water the last place they either see bait or feed on it waiting for it to surface again


Thank you for that. Can anyone answer what it means when they are not sitting on the water but grouped up tight on one beach area. Does that mean bait is in the area as well? thanks!

[finchaser]

1)no means there is no bait to eat they face into the wind to get the scent of something to eat .
2)sounds like sea gulls, nor do they follow fish schools as they will eat almost anything including garbage
3)sea birds very seldom sit on land and follow bait and fish schools

[storminsteve]

Thanks for that finchaser. I have gone back and referred to this thread every winter. You guys have a lot of great threads here. Ever thought of a "best of" section? Thanks for all the tips and hints.

[seamonkey]

^^^ X2, some great info on these posts. Thanks guys.

[surfrob]

^^^^ X3, late to the game, but great thread!

[porgy75]

Does anyone know why the cormorants and the other birds leave in the winter and only the black ducks are around? Does it have something to do with migration or is it that all the food leaves and most of the birds with it? Have always been curious about this, thanks.

[finchaser]

food leaves and water temps are too cold

[surfrob]

food leaves and water temps are too cold

this could be one of many excuses for south jersey.

note that down here, I've seen every kind of bird performance imaginable to humankind, with no predators on the bait!

remember being out in a boat with ganets all around and .... NADA. boom boom boom, if you've ever drifted among diving ganets
with the engine off, it's an awesome sound.

no bass.

I've had the terns chasing and working over... nothing.

gulls? I ignore those garbage pickers 99% of the time.

Bunker? do you guys actually still see bunker? Whew, it's been years since I've seen castable bunker schools down here. The myth exists that they swim by 3.00001 miles off shore with coasties patrolling the zone to keep wayward recs from targeting them.

Herring in the inlets? Sure they do come, but we need more than 10 bass to follow them in so that there's a chance that we get more than an .01% catch rate during prime seasons.

Ah well, great thread, great pics, good info, nice internet bickering, and very enjoyable read!

Tight lines, all!

[seamonkey]

this could be one of many excuses for south jersey.

note that down here, I've seen every kind of bird performance imaginable to humankind, with no predators on the bait!



Ditto! Some times it seems if you are not at the rips at cape may you won't catch the cows. There are lots of birds here throughtout the year. Maybe because it's the last spot they can stop at before crossing the bay. I do notice a decrease in all the flocks in the winter so it could also be lack of food like finchaser said.

[lostatsea]

finchaser posted a pic of in inlet during the storm and there seemed to be lots of birds flying around. Thought it would be better to ask it here. Question, why during storms like that do you usually see birds near the fronts of inlets? thanks

[basshunter]

Some storms I think it is 90% garbage and 10% food. The birds see all that stuff floating and assume its a free meal. Psych! it's not. So they have to pick among the trash to get the crumbs of food. Same principle at walmart.

[bababooey]

Check this out hundreds of gannetts diving off the tip of the hook a few days ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0py5LX3r4zA

[baitstealer]

Birds sit on the water the last place they either see bait or feed on it waiting for it to surface again

Thank you for this thread, very informative and I have learned a lot.

[baitstealer]

I was wondering if any of you guys has ever experienced this. I was fishing last nite after dark near a lighted area. Saw a LOT of birds flying back over the water like they were following bait. They were hovering and kept changing course. All in the same general area. I kept casting too them but they were too far out. Very frustrating. Do birds feed and follow bait at night?

[7deadlyplugs]

Maybe feeding on rain fish? Have seen that happen off a lighted pier at night, the light draws the bait in.

[captnemo]

Would be nice if people learned something about sea birds in the spring. In the past they used to signify predators under schools of bait. I can't tell you how many times I have seen something posted on the internet, where a tackle shop owner or someone else is raving about blitz conditions. 99% of the time that has been gannets diving on schools of herring or bunker in the ocean or bay. Many of the blitz videos posted were simply gannets taking advantage of a feeding opportunity. I guess it's hard to teach people the subtle differences.