Would you judge?

[buckethead]

Do we as fisherman judge other fisherman on whether or not they catch and release? Do you think they are judged when they catch a cow and decide to keep it?

If you catched a 60 lb striper would you throw it back?

[jimbob]

I don't judge anyone. I fly fish, bait fish, and mostly plug fish. I enjoy it all. I believe fishing should be fun and as long as everyone plays by the rules I'm happy.
Of course I would keep a 60 pound fish, that's a fish of a lifetime.

[johnnysaxatilis]

take a picture. save the freakin species for christs sake!:mad:.

Too many of those fish are being killed and in turn dramatically decreasing the population. Unless mortally wounded somehow I wouldnt even consider killing a beast like that which in turn helps the overall mass to survive.

For all those people who dont really see themselves as impacting the striped bass enviroment. This is the single easiest way to positively do so. Throw the big girls back FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!. and shell out the 1.99 for a plastic bag toput your camera in when you go fishing so you can have a momento if you feel you need to brag. But dont do it at the expense of the future of the striped bass population.

[Monty]

Judge?
I get disgusted seeing a picture of six guys holding 12 bass all between 20 and 40 pounds on a charter boat.
I think that is screwed up, they more than likely don't give a poop about the striper fishery.

Would I keep a 60 lb bass.
Reading stories about guys releasing big fish is inspiring.
Till this year I had released my PB.
I kept my new PB this year.

About a 75% chance I would release it.

[jimbob]

take a picture. save the freakin species for christs sake!:mad:.

Too many of those fish are being killed and in turn dramatically decreasing the population. Unless mortally wounded somehow I wouldnt even consider killing a beast like that which in turn helps the overall mass to survive.

For all those people who dont really see themselves as impacting the striped bass enviroment. This is the single easiest way to positively do so. Throw the big girls back FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!. and shell out the 1.99 for a plastic bag toput your camera in when you go fishing so you can have a momento if you feel you need to brag. But dont do it at the expense of the future of the striped bass population.
Don't worry I haven't caught a Bass over 32 lbs in 10 years. I release 90% of the fish that I am alowed to keep. I dont see catching anything close to the fish of a lifetime unless the way fish are managed is changed.

[DarkSkies]

I release fish as well. I'm not trying to speak for everybody, but I think there is a human element here that can't be quantified. I have always told myself if I got a fish close to a world record I would think about letting it go. I think it's great to talk about these things in the abstract. When it comes right down to the precise moment in time, we might change our minds. And we have that right, because we're human. So if I did catch a record fish, I might not let it go. I won't know until that moment in time. :lookhappy:

One thing I made a committment to at the beginning of this year was not to weigh a fish in a tackle shop any more. I have weighed them in the past under the name Turd Ferguson. :laugh: If I'm keeping a fish to eat, a boga is enough verification of the weight for me.

I have more of an issue with guys weighing fish for glory and bragging rights than I do with people keeping fish.

The taking and eating of bass is permitted by law. From my perspective, if anyone feels strongly about releasing fish when they catch them, then do what feels right to you.

I think there's a fine line between doing what YOU feel is right, and expecting others to do the same thing. For me, I use the analogy of alcohol and drinking. I know alcohol is bad for me, it almost ruined my life at one point. :plastered:

However if I were to go out there and preach to everyone not to drink because of the potential harm, I would be out of line. I feel the same way about keeping fish.

I also feel those who feel passionately about preserving striped bass need to look at the big picture, and take care not to be seen as zealouts or unreasonable people. It's very easy to cross the line from what you do in your own life to preaching to others what they MUST do.

We all have choices in life, and a strategy that respects those choices gives you a lot better chance of others listening to the platform you want to present for consideration.

Just my .02.

[johnnysaxatilis]

Darkskies i understand your point of view and respect your opinion.

If any one person makes choices that will damage their life and dont effect other people, thats your porogative. Although it doesnt make sense to me, there isnt anything i can do except say its not in your best interest.

But when you're killing a trophy size bass, that is VITAL to the species survival and overall health, (becuase bigger bass carry bigger amounts of eggs) for your own egotistical needs such as bragging on the internet, or to your friends, thats downright offensive to me.

FACT not opinion: You're directly decreasing the overall number of stripers dramatically when you kill a bass that size. A species of fish which is in danger of being wiped out AGAIN.

The mentality that "I don't matter in the grand scheme of things" is a very dangerous attitude, especially when it's condoned in an enviroment that gets as much traffic as an internet fishing website. Those little personal choices add up quick when you figure the sheer mass of people that fish for stripers.

Im not attacking any one person for this. Im trying to inform people that their personal decisions are the most powerful kind when it comes to the preservation of a delicate eco system like the one we're dealing with here.

I love ya darkskies, but take a picture and put the big girl back. Not for me buddy, for the stripercoast

[johnnysaxatilis]

I dont see catching anything close to the fish of a lifetime unless the way fish are managed is changed. :thumbsup:

Managed by commercial AND recreational fisherman :clapping:

[gjb1969]

they judge i know guys who will not fish bait if ther life was in the ballance they look down at the bait guys call them names all u have to do is look there at the post on the internet googans white bucket brigade and other names i cant remember but they judge just like they do abought the tackle guys use so its no diff its not cool but sh**happens:don't know why: just dont worry if u fish with bait and it works for u go for it:fishing: tite lines and good fishin to all:thumbsup::HappyWave:

[Monty]

I believe if someone catches a 30, 40, 50, 60 or what ever pound bass and wants to keep it it is up to him/her. Its well with in the regulations. And if they want to stop at the bait shop where they dump hundreds of dollars a year and weigh their tropy that is fine.
Its a great acomplishment for them, they should feel proud.
If they want to release it, awesome. Great. They should feel proud of that. Thats special.
Excess is the problem. Not a bass here and there. They add up, but that is not the main problem.
I would love stricter regulations. Would pay for a license to inforce it with out a problem.
Those charter boats slammen bass, catching limits in an hour for 8-10 customers. That hurts. The gill netters, that hurts. Keeping your limit of two bass a day lots of times a year that hurts. All legal. All in excess.
Singling out the one person who keeps one 50 pound bass and has a smile and story for the rest of their life while others are slaughtering bass left and right in excess does not seem right to me.
We are trying to catch the biggest fish I think.
And we catch that big fish we talk about how awesome it was?
We are proud that we tricked that big fish?
Really proud if we released it?
Share stories about it with friends?
Or just catch it, release it and keep it to our selves and thats that?
What is great is reading about guys cathing big fish and releasing them. I am sure that sways others to do the same. Its inspiring.
Shoving 100% C&R down others throats does not work.
What we really need to do is figure out a way to change regulations.
I feel Striped Bass are to beautifull a fish to be under such pressure (to many are being killed).
I agree Johnny, that catching the big one taking a pic and releasing it is perfect. For many of us the ultimate fishing experience. Others want to go get it weighed and bring it home. Well within their rights, I'm OK with that.


All JMHO

[fishinmission78]

But when you're killing a trophy size bass, that is VITAL to the species survival and overall health, (becuase bigger bass carry bigger amounts of eggs) for your own egotistical needs such as bragging on the internet, or to your friends, thats downright offensive to me.

FACT not opinion: You're directly decreasing the overall number of stripers dramatically when you kill a bass that size. A species of fish which is in danger of being wiped out AGAIN.



I was fishing at Island Beach this spring when a guy got a 53 right next to me. If I got that fish, it would be dinner. If you were standing next to me as I load that fish in my cooler, you're gonna tell me I can't keep that fish? I don't think so.:laugh:

[cowherder]

Judge?
I get disgusted seeing a picture of six guys holding 12 bass all between 20 and 40 pounds on a charter boat.
I think that is screwed up, they more than likely don't give a poop about the striper fishery.



I get disgusted seeing that too Monty.http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.gif I think if I caught a monster bass I would take a picture and measurements. 60lbs, I would definitely keep it. I am dreaming about one day breaking the 30 pound mark, so a 60 pound fish would be the fish of a lifetime for me.

[johnnysaxatilis]

Shoving 100% C&R down others throats does not work.
All JMHO

True. But something has to change right?

How bout a slot size for a compromise? leave the cows alone.

[surfwalker]

There are plenty of fishermen that I have come across that have strong opinions on this, one way or another, and stronger names for others that don’t think like them. I, personally don’t preach, judge or express my opinions, as long as everything is done legally. I love to see any size Striper-the small ones are our future and the large are our on going producers. Sure, I’d love to see a lot more released, but if it’s for the table and on the up and up, OK. But if it’s just for bragging and the catch ends up in a dumpster and the I’m better than you attitude, then leave me out. My only goal is to see the Striper and maintain Personal Satisfaction.
As far as keeping a 60 pounder, well, that’s quite an accomplishment and I guess you do what your head decides. For me, I’ll let it go and if no one is around to witness it (the way I would prefer), then only a few select people would know about it. I must admit though, that if I knew I had a world record Striper, a money fish, I might keep it.
All I ask of the newcomers is to educate yourselves on years past, and the old timers to remember when the Striper was in decline, and no matter what your effort, it was almost useless. The walks were just walks, the casts were just empty retrieves and the talk at the wetline was about how we let this happen. It’s your call.

[DarkSkies]

I believe if someone catches a 30, 40, 50, 60 or what ever pound bass and wants to keep it it is up to him/her. Its well with in the regulations. And if they want to stop at the bait shop where they dump hundreds of dollars a year and weigh their tropy that is fine.
Its a great acomplishment for them, they should feel proud.
If they want to release it, awesome. Great. They should feel proud of that. Thats special.
Excess is the problem. Not a bass here and there. They add up, but that is not the main problem.
I would love stricter regulations. Would pay for a license to inforce it with out a problem.
Those charter boats slammen bass, catching limits in an hour for 8-10 customers. That hurts. The gill netters, that hurts. Keeping your limit of two bass a day lots of times a year that hurts. All legal. All in excess.
Singling out the one person who keeps one 50 pound bass and has a smile and story for the rest of their life while others are slaughtering bass left and right in excess does not seem right to me.
We are trying to catch the biggest fish I think.
And we catch that big fish we talk about how awesome it was?
We are proud that we tricked that big fish?
Really proud if we released it?
Share stories about it with friends?
Or just catch it, release it and keep it to our selves and thats that?
What is great is reading about guys cathing big fish and releasing them. I am sure that sways others to do the same. Its inspiring.
Shoving 100% C&R down others throats does not work.
What we really need to do is figure out a way to change regulations.
I feel Striped Bass are to beautifull a fish to be under such pressure (to many are being killed).
I agree Johnny, that catching the big one taking a pic and releasing it is perfect. For many of us the ultimate fishing experience. Others want to go get it weighed and bring it home. Well within their rights, I'm OK with that.


All JMHO

This is one of the most logical and well-written posts I have seen from you, Monty. You took all sides into account when answering this, yet you clearly speak your true opinion at the same time. Logical, respectful, and non-antagonizing, yet at the same time you get your point across. I'm gonna recommend you for the future diplomacy peace settlement talks in the Middle East. ;)

Well done, my friend. :clapping:

[DarkSkies]

Im not attacking any one person for this. Im trying to inform people that their personal decisions are the most powerful kind when it comes to the preservation of a delicate eco system like the one we're dealing with here.

I love ya darkskies, but take a picture and put the big girl back. Not for me buddy, for the stripercoast

These phrases show your committment and love for the future of striped bass fishing. The other stuff, maybe you could polish it up a little more. ;)

Like Monty says you can't show someone a reasonable alternative by shoving it down their throat. I still see you as a fisherman who is willing to go that extra mile. Keep that in sight while minimizing the :argue: and you'll continue to be a good voice for sportsmen.

The big task here IMO is to build coalitions and consensus, just like the politicians do. It's one task where we as fishermen fail because we sometimes let our egos get in the way.

Great discussion guys. :thumbsup:

BTW Johnny I heard a rumor that you caught and released one of the nicer fish this weekend at Montauk. Lots of schoolies were caught, and yours was 36 or 37"? Any truth to that? If so, congrats. :clapping:

[DarkSkies]

All I ask of the newcomers is to educate yourselves on years past, and the old timers to remember when the Striper was in decline, and no matter what your effort, it was almost useless. The walks were just walks, the casts were just empty retrieves and the talk at the wetline was about how we let this happen. It’s your call.

This is a guy I have never met (yet), but I feel through our conversations I've known him all my life. :HappyWave:I don't want to embarass him here, but the guy has been up and down the stripercoast several times and seasons following the bass, everything else be damned! :kooky:

Dedication or insanity, or a little bit of both. I am honored to have him take the time to post here.

He's soft spoken, matter of fact, and honest to a fault. If he asks you guys and girls to look at something, it's because he's lived the bad times that most of us don't remember. Thanks for sharing, Surfwalker. :thumbsup:

[Monty]

I agree 100 percent.
Something has to change and as far as I am concerned the sooner the better.
Not sure what is best, I was always a fan of 1 fish 36 inches or more.


True. But something has to change right?

How bout a slot size for a compromise? leave the cows alone.

[VSdreams]

I think we are all out there doing our own thing. I don't want to judge a guy who keeps a fish or a trophy. That would make me holier than thou.:D

[nitestrikes]

But when you're killing a trophy size bass, that is VITAL to the species survival and overall health, (becuase bigger bass carry bigger amounts of eggs)


That's a good point, I think I read larger bass do carry more eggs, sometimes twice as much. So that should be a consideration when catching a bigger fish.

[jigfreak]

Don't worry I haven't caught a Bass over 32 lbs in 10 years. I release 90% of the fish that I am alowed to keep. I dont see catching anything close to the fish of a lifetime unless the way fish are managed is changed.


:thumbsup:

Managed by commercial AND recreational fisherman :clapping:



I don't think we are ever going to have agreement with commercial and rec fishermen. That's a pipe dream.

[johnnysaxatilis]

These phrases show your committment and love for the future of striped bass fishing. The other stuff, maybe you could polish it up a little more. ;)

Like Monty says you can't show someone a reasonable alternative by shoving it down their throat. I still see you as a fisherman who is willing to go that extra mile. Keep that in sight while minimizing the :argue: and you'll continue to be a good voice for sportsmen.

Great discussion guys. :thumbsup:

Lots of schoolies were caught, and yours was 36 or 37"? Any truth to that? If so, congrats. :clapping:

Thanks DS, I appreciate it. I'll try to minimize the agressive tone in order to get my point across better.

Ya tough trip in montauk. 30 mph winds the whole time, gusts to 40. not a lot of fish. couple schoolies and then that one i got was 34'' 35'' tops. Everyone else that myself a few other guys talked to said the same thing. pretty much nuthin :(. Went to rhodie the day after. gorgeous weather, 5 fish in 2 hours. they were rats but the situation seemed ironic anyway :don't know why: lol.

[DarkSkies]

That's a good point, I think I read larger bass do carry more eggs, sometimes twice as much. So that should be a consideration when catching a bigger fish.


Thanks DS, I appreciate it. I'll try to minimize the agressive tone in order to get my point across better.

Ya tough trip in montauk. 30 mph winds the whole time, gusts to 40. not a lot of fish. couple schoolies and then that one i got was 34'' 35'' tops. Everyone else that myself a few other guys talked to said the same thing. pretty much nuthin :(. Went to rhodie the day after. gorgeous weather, 5 fish in 2 hours. they were rats but the situation seemed ironic anyway :don't know why: lol.

Nitestrikes and JohnnySax, it's even more than that for the amount of eggs for a big bass.

If you assume that a 10# female bass of mature egg laying age can lay up to a million eggs, then relatively speaking a 40lb bass can lay up to 4 million eggs.

4 freakin million, such a large number! :wow:

There are guys who will dispute the fertility of a 40-50# female bass and say that those big bass will not lay any more eggs and should be culled from the biomass. If you want to believe that, fine.

Before you accept that as gospel, however, do a search on fecundity studies. These studies will show you that a female bass of that size, with the exception of some statistical anomalies, can produce eggs almost every season until she dies.

If you assume only a .1% survival rate of the fry, which I am told is pretty standard, then putting back a 10# bass is like paying it forward for the next 100 fish to grow from that mother.

Putting back a 40# or 50# striped bass is like paying it forward by adding 400 or 500 new fish to the biomass that would never have been born if you took that fish to eat. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon3.gif

So while it's a personal choice, and again I have no problem with killing and eating keeping bass, illustrating it in the way I did above helps people to understand things a little better. It places a more descriptive perspective on it.

Some of these discusssions came from speaking with Ron Sickler of the JCAA. He deserves credit. I thought he had a great way of explaining. His passion didn't come across as overzealous preaching and had me hanging on every word he said. I told him I was stealing these examples to use, and he gave me his blessing. :HappyWave:

If you ever want to learn more about a group of anglers who wouldn't take no for an answer and spent 11 long years fighting to get the bunker boats pushed offshore in NJ, take a look at this thread:
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=5151

Sometimes, it's all about how you deliver the message. :thumbsup:

[dogfish]

Do we as fisherman judge other fisherman on whether or not they catch and release? Do you think they are judged when they catch a cow and decide to keep it?

If you catched a 60 lb striper would you throw it back?

You should have put that up as a 2 part question and might have got a different answer. I see a lot of people in city areas catching and keeping fish. That might be the only protein they get. I don't have a right to judge them. If I get a 60, whiich would be the biggest bass I ever got in my life, she will be dinner after the pictures are taken. My wife will make soup out of the head, and fishcakes out of the meat from the rack. Not one ounce will be wasted.

[bababooey]

I was fishing at Island Beach this spring when a guy got a 53 right next to me. If I got that fish, it would be dinner. If you were standing next to me as I load that fish in my cooler, you're gonna tell me I can't keep that fish? I don't think so.:laugh:


I have more of an issue with guys weighing fish for glory and bragging rights than I do with people keeping fish.

The taking and eating of bass is permitted by law. From my perspective, if anyone feels strongly about releasing fish when they catch them, then do what feels right to you.

I think there's a fine line between doing what YOU feel is right, and expecting others to do the same thing.

I also feel those who feel passionately about preserving striped bass need to look at the big picture, and take care not to be seen as zealouts or unreasonable people. It's very easy to cross the line from what you do in your own life to preaching to others what they MUST do.

We all have choices in life, and a strategy that respects those choices gives you a lot better chance of others listening to the platform you want to present for consideration.

Just my .02.


I agree with both these posts. If it's legal to keep, I don't want someone harassing me to throw fish back. There are times when I can keep a limit, but I don't. I think the important distinction is - it's MY CHOICE to make.