Helping the new guys: What do you do differently if you aren't catchin?

[DarkSkies]

This was inspired by some new people I have run into in the last few days. Some have been glad to hear helpful advice, and I try to be as diplomatic as possible when I help someone.

Many people helped me along the way, and still do. I like to give back, it makes me feel like I'm helping the future of fishing as well. :thumbsup:

This morning I might have bruised this guy's ego as I tried to help him to catch. We were fishin a featureless beach, and were in front of the sand bar, so there were no holes or cuts. Around 7am a guy got a keeper bass on an Ava with green tail.

He leaves, and the guy to my right, who hasn't been catchin, quickly makes his way to the spot where the bass was caught. 10 minutes later he hadn't caught anything, while a small number of others were getting bluefish. He seemed to grow more frustrated, and I felt bad for him. I approached him to try to say something between casts. We talked about the good action yesterday, and the fact it was slow today. I mentioned about how sometimes subtle retrieval differences can make a skunk day into a catching day.

He grew defensive:

"But I caught a LOT of fish yesterday, I really did!" :huh:

I could see that we as fishermen sometimes let our ego get in the way, as I explained that the way to catch, is to concentrate on what works for today. :learn:

I thought others would benefit from some of us here talking about how we change it up a bit if what we're doing isn't working.

Anyone can catch fish when it's hot and heavy and bait is moving down the coast in the wash. I'd like to talk about how you approach your fishing time when it's a slow pick.


Here's what I do:

I know how to catch fish too, but my ego will never get in the way of me catching for THAT day. It just doesn't make sense to me. Sometimes the great technique or plug you used yesterday will get you nothing but eau de skunk today. If you want to increase your catching, then learn to look at it objectively.

If there is one guy who is catching and for some reason others aren't, this is what I do:

Throw ego out the window.
Getting upset or stubborn does not solve the problem, and it is a problem. We solve problems by overcoming them with logic or acquiring new knowledge. So put your ego aside and be willing to at least look at those who are successful.

LOOK at what they're doing.
Is he retrieving faster or slower than you are?
Are they imparting a slight twitch or maneuver as they retrieve?
Is that maneuver regular, or sporadic?

Try to mimic the pattern.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I'm sure you have all heard that phrase. As long as you're not mugging the guy, copying what he is doing so you can catch fish is not unethical, is not against the law, and helps you solve your problem of not catching.
You can even compliment the other fisherman if you get a chance when neither of you is hooked up during a slow period. Open your ears and listen, ya just might learn something.

Decide on Plan B, C, or D
If you have your family with you, moving to another place is tough. So you have to make decisions within those parameters.
But maybe you should move, maybe the tide isn't right for that spot.

Learn to read the beach:
I'm fortunate to have many places to fish, and that I have fished from. Even so, they're constantly changing. If I don't do my "fishing homework" I feel I deserve to get blanked. :beatin:
Try to arrive at the spot during low tide so you can read the beach. Sometimes it 's not important, like the place where I started fishin today. Other times, you're wasting your time if you don't place your offering in a strategic area. This is even more important when bait fishing, believe it or not. :D


I know there are some guys here who are good at adapting to changing conditions when they want to catch fish.

For the benefit of the newcomer, let's hear what you do to increase your chances when it's a slow pick.

[7deadlyplugs]

Take a step back and think. Are there fish there, or am I fighting a losing battle. If I really gave it my best shot during a good tide, then I would think about making my next move, and maybe plan another one in case that doesn't work.

[Dreaminofishin]

Dark,

If there was no structure, what would make you chose that particular beach? I wouldn't see the structure because I don't know what I'm looking at, but why would an experienced fisherman fish there, unless he has had big days there in the past.

[finchaser]

Go home,return when conditions are right no sense :beatin: a dead horse. Wasted too much time through the years waiting for them to turn on, which in most cases they don't, because conditions are not to there liking to feed. Knowing when to fish and when to quit comes with experience. Most newbies stay out sometimes for days end result Nada. Example if they feed beginning of a NE and stop they are not going to feed through it come back after it. If they are feeding on NW and stop they usually stop until next front comes through. Has a lot to do with the barometer, not the newbie mistake of water looks good. Many times they feed a particular stage of tide only period. They are like people they don't eat 24/7. When there is a slow pick IMO it's not a bite just an occasional fish eating no sense wasting 10 hours to catch 1 fish.
Keep a log and refer to it that's how 10% of the fishermen catch 90% of the fish they are fishermen. Learning spots in an area and what spot produces in certain conditions will make you good. Riding up and down the coast chasing reports ,wastes time,learning and gas because by time you get there its over or hence the slow pick. Experienced fisherman just don't fish because the water looks good, I've caught more fish with out a pounding surf than with one. I average, hundreds of released bass a year for the past 7 yrs in a 6 mile area. Spending your time fishing and learning not scouting and chasing reports will make you good. Scout during the winter it passes the time and can be done with far less gas and time than you wasted during the season. Catching bass is not a CELL PHONE/INTERNET sport it just made allot of people so called bass fisherman. Take away the CELL PHONE/INTERNET and most are clueless. Remember even blind squirrels find an egg corn from time to time.


May not be what you want to read but been a fact of my life for over 45 years of bass fishing. Fish for the sport of it not for killing to support an ego, another lesson to learn. Use a camera to verify a catch it will fit in with most peoples cell phone /internet skills.

[DarkSkies]

Knowing when to fish and when to quit comes with experience. Most newbies stay out sometimes for days end result Nada. Example if they feed beginning of a NE and stop they are not going to feed through it come back after it.

If they are feeding on NW and stop they usually stop until next front comes through. Has a lot to do with the barometer, not the newbie mistake of water looks good.

Many times they feed a particular stage of tide only period. They are like people they don't eat 24/7. When there is a slow pick IMO it's not a bite just an occasional fish eating no sense wasting 10 hours to catch 1 fish.

Keep a log and refer to it that's how 10% of the fishermen catch 90% of the fish they are fishermen.

Learning spots in an area and what spot produces in certain conditions will make you good. Riding up and down the coast chasing reports ,wastes time,learning and gas because by time you get there its over or hence the slow pick.

Experienced fisherman just don't fish because the water looks good, I've caught more fish with out a pounding surf than with one. I average, hundreds of released bass a year for the past 7 yrs in a 6 mile area. Spending your time fishing and learning not scouting and chasing reports will make you good.

Scout during the winter it passes the time and can be done with far less gas and time than you wasted during the season. Catching bass is not a CELL PHONE/INTERNET sport it just made allot of people so called bass fisherman. Take away the CELL PHONE/INTERNET and most are clueless. Remember even blind squirrels find an egg corn from time to time.


May not be what you want to read but been a fact of my life for over 45 years of bass fishing. Fish for the sport of it not for killing to support an ego, another lesson to learn. Use a camera to varify a catch it will fit in with most peoples cell phone /internet skills.


:clapping::clapping: :thumbsup::thumbsup: Dreamin, there's a lifetime of experience in those paragraphs.

I don't know how to follow that, I would be lucky to claim I have 20% of the experience and skills as Fin does. However, I'm a pretty good "scout". :laugh:

When he fishes, he makes it look easy.

That's because the knows exactly what's in front of him, and where he wants to cast. When he says he caught fish blind casting, he picks an area where he thinks the fish might be and casts and works the mojo until he has one on. On a beach when everyone else went home and gave up, he's nailed one on his first cast. :huh:
Lucky?

Nope, he knows the water, studies it again every time a big storm changes it, and keeps the most detailed log I've ever heard of. People of his generation weren't big on computers, but he surpassed that by using a computer as part of his daily fisherman tool kit.

Ya couldn't get better advice from an experienced angler than if ya read 3 books. :learn:

The only thing I would add is that it's tough for new guys to read the water. Early on in your post, I assumed you were referring to jetties as structure. Beaches have structure as well if they are to hold fish. Not all beach areas have good structure.

That's why Fin suggested to go scouting to learn for yourself. I do my best scouting during extreme full or new moon low tide. You really want to learn one beach or area at a time, as he said.

Learn it well, memorize the cuts and the middle and the outer edges of the holes. Or write them down relative to the landmarks (houses, etc) on the beach behind them. That's what I do. Bear in mind they'll change with every major storm.

If you really want to catch fish, it's your challenge to go out and learn them, each time.

Fish move in and out of the surf line looking for food. If there's no food for them you have to take a shot they're passing by and get them on a far cast. Many times they're within 100 feet from shore, especially at night. If not, they frequently they sit on the outside of the hole, just past the bar.

Memorize those cuts by going at low tide one afternoon when you have a few hours to kill. Start at low tide and learn a mile of beach at a time. Watch as the water fills in how the cuts will look different at different tide stages.

Realize that many fish are caught at high tide in the 5-15' wide trough right in front of you. This will seem non-existent at the lowest tide. At the highest it will be up to your neck in some places. You want to look for a place where a trough is wider than the others, and close to an "outsuck", a deeper cut perpendicular to the beach.

Look for an outsuck that has strong current. Bass thrive in current because that's where their best chance of ambushing disoriented bait is. As Fin said, even a calm ocean will have strong current in certain areas.

Ideally, you want to look for a hole that is bigger than the others, has a nice cut, wider trough, or a combination of those.

You should read some books on reading the water. However at some point you have to get out there. As a new guy, you'll never understand it completely unless you see it with your own eyes out there on the beach.

On an incoming tide, if you find a place where the water is still rushing out of the hole, even as the waves come in, you want to fish that first, and hardest. Be careful wading in those areas because the rip could pull you out to sea.

If you just concentrate on getting to know a few holes and fishing them back and forth 2 hours before and after high tide, you might improve your catch rate by 50%. During low tide, and as the tide begins to ebb, you will have to learn the structure past the sand bar by wading out carefully. Fish will usually not remain in one area for the whole tide unless huge amounts of bait are drawing them there.

Hope this helps. There are some other very good fishermen on this board. Maybe they can chime in too.

[blitzhunter]

I saw the thread and was going to come on here and say what I do is change my presentation, mix it up a bit. Plugs don't work, try bucktails. That doesn't work, try rubber.

After seeing what finchaser and dark wrote I realize you guys have that all covered. I would like to wish you a Merry Christmas anyway, and thanks dark for all you do. S&A is a great site to be a part of, God bless.:clapping:

[porgy75]

I can't add much because I don't have a lot of experience striper fishing. You can call me the bluefish and skate champ, though. Thanks for the help.

[vpass]

Dark, There's not much more you could add to what you and Fincasher explainned. The reading of the water is what it's all about. The Stage of tide which you guys covered, and Keeping log books.

In the logs document date, Location, what stage of tide the fish were hiting, moon phase, water temps, Wind directions, what bait were present, and what lures caght the fish. Also what type of structure fish were caught by.

At each of the fishing spots you fish should have all colum of water covered before moving to the next spot.

I wish all of you Happy Holiday, and a health and productive New year. Enjoy.

[Dreaminofishin]

I appreciate the information from all. I plan to spend some time in the Belmar, Spring Lake, Avon area this winter doing the homework that you guys suggested.

Dark, I'll pick up some new Korkers to try some rockpiles in addition to the beaches up there.

Fin, I'm a couple of hours away, so I have to make the most of my time when I'm there. Hope I can learn a stretch of beach well enough someday to know just when it is likely to produce, but I think that's a good distance down the road if at all. I will do the advance scouting as you suggest, and should improve my chances.

Merry Christmas to everyone. I look forward to fishing with you in the next season.

[finchaser]

I appreciate the information from all. I plan to spend some time in the Belmar, Spring Lake, Avon area this winter doing the homework that you guys suggested.

Dark, I'll pick up some new Korkers to try some rockpiles in addition to the beaches up there.

Fin, I'm a couple of hours away, so I have to make the most of my time when I'm there. Hope I can learn a stretch of beach well enough someday to know just when it is likely to produce, but I think that's a good distance down the road if at all. I will do the advance scouting as you suggest, and should improve my chances.

Merry Christmas to everyone. I look forward to fishing with you in the next season.


It will come any questions I'd be glad to help if i can. I'm only a PM away
Have a Happy

[Simp]

Dark,
This is a GREAT topic and one that EVERYONE, and especially NEWCOMERS to this fine sport, should read frequently! I can't really add anything that hasn't been listed already, but I will definitely emphasize the need to familiarize yourself with the water that you'll be fishing the most.
Some guys start at the Hook and end up at Cape May, and that's great, but it's almost impossible to really learn and remember that much water and the structure that's under it.
Pick a stretch of beach and learn it like you know your house when the lights are off. Knowing where every hump, hole, cut and bar is will do more for your fish-catching abilities than covering 40 miles of coast by making Banzai runs.
Great topic and some real knowledge on the site, so new-comers, listen up!

[Monty]

I am with you 100% on this (I have two areas I try to learn as much about as possible).



Pick a stretch of beach and learn it like you know your house when the lights are off. Knowing where every hump, hole, cut and bar is will do more for your fish-catching abilities than covering 40 miles of coast by making Banzai runs.

[wish4fish]

Dark,
This is a GREAT topic and one that EVERYONE, and especially NEWCOMERS to this fine sport, should read frequently! I can't really add anything that hasn't been listed already, but I will definitely emphasize the need to familiarize yourself with the water that you'll be fishing the most.
Some guys start at the Hook and end up at Cape May, and that's great, but it's almost impossible to really learn and remember that much water and the structure that's under it.
Pick a stretch of beach and learn it like you know your house when the lights are off. Knowing where every hump, hole, cut and bar is will do more for your fish-catching abilities than covering 40 miles of coast by making Banzai runs.
Great topic and some real knowledge on the site, so new-comers, listen up!

:clapping: good advice dude and also listen if ur fishing near a guy who is banging the fish dont crowd that dude or u wll blow it and pay attention your line will get hit sooner or later if u keep it tite and no slack thats most important when the surf is big.

[baitstealer]

Great advice thank you fellas!

[ledhead36]

Looks like we have a lot of wisdom here. I like the suggestions of learning one beach area at a time. Too many people drive around in their trucks like chickens with their heads cut off. They stop when they see someone into fish, even if it's a small one. That's not the way to learn.

[johnnysaxatilis]

Pick a stretch of beach and learn it like you know your house when the lights are off. Knowing where every hump, hole, cut and bar is will do more for your fish-catching abilities than covering 40 miles of coast by making Banzai runs.
Great topic and some real knowledge on the site, so new-comers, listen up!

love it. This really hits home fishing in rocky korker conditions because usually im fishing in the black. The head lamp can only get you so far, you have to know the landscape and have some idea of what to expect from the terrain in order to navigate efficiently. Also the less head lamp the better. I love fishing in those areas because the extire experience is challenging as soon as you leave the car. And once you get framiliar its nice to be able to just walk in the dark on the rocks with confidence knowing where you're going. Not to mention learning in your area where to fish at what tides.

So answering the original question: If stuff isnt working I go through everything in my bag essentially covering all the water columns and presentations that I have available. And i move around to different areas. Just keep pluggin and a prayin, thats all you can do

[rip316]

I don't remember where I found it but theres a site somewhere that actually has pictures of what to look for in reading a beach. It had pics of an area at high and low tide and showed what to look for. Wish I could find it. I f I do I will post it up. Helped me a lot.

[Dreaminofishin]

Started my winter beach recon yesterday. Checked out the Southern end of Avon By the Sea and the northern beach in Belmar. That inlet Jetty on the north side looks like a good stop. My wife wanted to take the ride with me. She was amused watching me walking up and down the beach :kooky: Somebody was throwing plugs in the surf just south of the Belmar pier. The beaches in Avon looked a little shallow except some of the jetty pockets. I'm not good at this but intend to keep at it.

[BassBuddah]

Lots of good points here. I just answered a thread about being flexible and willing to adapt in fishing poppers. I'll state that again here. What may have been great yesterday might not work today, so you as the fisherman, have to be willing to alter the strategy a bit.

[CharlieTuna]

. What may have been great yesterday might not work today, so you as the fisherman, have to be willing to alter the strategy a bit.

For the new guys, make it a habit of asking yourself "why" that happens, and when it does, ask if it is due to bait, weather, or tide factors. Each factor has a different subset of answers and solutions.

[ledhead36]

Go home,return when conditions are right no sense :beatin: a dead horse. Wasted too much time through the years waiting for them to turn on,

Keep a log and refer to it that's how 10% of the fishermen catch 90% of the fish they are fishermen. Learning spots in an area and what spot produces in certain conditions will make you good. Riding up and down the coast chasing reports ,wastes time,learning and gas because by time you get there its over or hence the slow pick. Scout during the winter it passes the time and can be done with far less gas and time than you wasted during the season. Catching bass is not a CELL PHONE/INTERNET sport it just made allot of people so called bass fisherman. Take away the CELL PHONE/INTERNET and most are clueless. Remember even blind squirrels find an egg corn from time to time.




Great advice. I can also say that if you are fishing and think the fish may be there try some other technique or something like that. This goes for both bait and lure fishing.

[J Barbosa]

Fished the Raritan in Monmouth County last night from 8pm-11pm. Had hits throughout the night, but was only able to hook up once. Fish was caught at 8:50pm and was a low - mid 20's fish. Caught on a clam with a fish finder rig and bait runner reel. Tried different sized hooks to see if that would increase the hook ups. They seemed to be picking the clam off the hook...

I strongly believe you have bunker bumping into your line; we have experienced it heavily this week.

The other day we barely had to snag any bunker they were so thick they would snag themselves swimming into our lines.
18178 :d

An easy solution is to switch to a true circle hook on a fish finder rig and then enable your bait runner feature. Look for a circle hook with an inline point often sold with the designation "tournament legal" on the package. Size 8/0 - 10/0 depending on brand.
1817918180

A bunker bumping into your line will make your tip move erratically and pull a tiny amount of line. A bass (even small ones) will typically pull line from the reel at a steadier rate. Once this happens disable the bait runner feature and reel tight. Once the line is taught for a few seconds and the fish is hooked I give a little tug to solidify the hookup and ensure that the barb penetrated the fishes lip.

I typically fish this setup with a 4oz sinker and 12-16" of leader from the fish finder slide in the back bay. In the surf I use around 36" of line and disable the baitrunner feature unless the surf is calm and the baitrunner can then be used.

I have a high hookup ratio and the fish are almost always lip hooked.

I stay away from the Gamakatsu 8/0 circle hooks everyone uses. They are garbage and will cause you to loose big fish and gut hook fish.

The points dulls after the first fish, the point has a large offset so many times it gets caught in the fishes mouth/gut rather than the lip.

This is a problem on big fish as the mouth is rock hard and the offset point never gets a chance to fully penetrate. You will be reeling the fish in and suddenly feel the line slip. This is either because the hook point popped free or broke. If you are lucky it catches the fishes lip like it was suppose to do the first time but usually you just stand there cursing

[cowherder]

Jbarbosa that was a great post thanks very much for sharing that info. dark just a suggestion but when you have a post like his it might be a good idea to put it somewhere else. Like a "best of" or something like that. This guy really seems to know his stuff and it's nice that hes so helpful instead of reporting "yeah I crushed them last night" which tells you nothing but the dudes need to beat his chest. Thank you to all the helpful guys on here.
I fished last night and it was frustrating. First I went to a well known spot and the police had the lot blocked off. They weren't letting anyone fish. When I asked them why they said someone lit a fire too close to the parking lot and the neighbors complained. Looks like we are going to lose another spot to the idiots!!!!!:2flip:
I went to another bay area and only had a half hour before I had to go home. One missed hit (yes I was holding my rod ledhead :HappyWave:) and that was it for me. The fishermen out there are getting worse and worse and I think it's time someone does something about it. We should post their pics!

[buckethead]

Took another try in the ocean. Picked up another 7 bass tonight before dark. Outgoing tide moco, small plugs and rubber. All sub-legal but hitting aggressively. JB that is a very comprehensive post. it's good to have someone besides us old folks help out the new guys here.

[great_white_hunter]

J Barbosa thanks for the tip. I thought I had heard that shops weren't able to sell bunker this year. I didn't even ask for it. I did have a weighted treble with me, but being night wasn't able to see and didn't know bunker were in so thick. I have a feeling you may be right about the bunker hitting the line....the tip would bounce similar to how it would bounce when fluke hit when drifting..... I was using the set up you posted. Going to try and give it another shot in the morning. On vacation this week so trying to put as much time in as possible while still completing the "honey do" list. Hope to run in to some of you.

[finchaser]

what JB said:clapping:

[J Barbosa]

I am glad to help when I can.

My choice of circle hooks is a 9/0 Owner SSW Circle hook (the one pictured above).

They aren't cheap at almost $1/each when buying in bulk but I have found my overall cost to be less than when I used the Gamikatsu circle hooks.

The reason being the point on the Owner will stay sharp much longer than the Gami and I don't have to replace my hook as often.

Anyway I rarely loose hooks so cost is the least of my concern when fishing. I spend $20 on gas each trip and hours of my life...why not spring an extra 50 cents for the right hook?

Another reason I like the Owner Circle is because there is a large gap between the bend and the hook point which is perfect for hooking bunker (especially the heads which I hook through the back behind the spine).

The owner circle has a much heavier wire than the Gami.

And the most important reason is I saw my hook up ratio greatly increase when I made the switch.

IMO it's not worth buying bunker in a store as it's rarely ever fresh. Snag your own and you can then guarantee it's fresh.

When you have fresh bunker it's very rigid and you only need to barely hook it behind the spine so that the point of the circle hook is always exposed. You can cast as hard as you want that spine in a fresh bunker will never pull out and a bass won't be able to strip your hook clean.

I'll take some pictures next time I go out.

I am a huge Gamikatsu fan just not when it comes to their horrible circle hooks.

Give the Owner circle hook a try and I'm sure you will be happy. :HappyWave:

[J Barbosa]

18224

[cowherder]

I am glad to help when I can.

My choice of circle hooks is a 9/0 Owner SSW Circle hook (the one pictured above).
The reason being the point on the Owner will stay sharp much longer than the Gami and I don't have to replace my hook as often.


Another reason I like the Owner Circle is because there is a large gap between the bend and the hook point which is perfect for hooking bunker (especially the heads which I hook through the back behind the spine).

The owner circle has a much heavier wire than the Gami.

And the most important reason is I saw my hook up ratio greatly increase when I made the switch.


I'll take some pictures next time I go out.
Give the Owner circle hook a try and I'm sure you will be happy. :HappyWave:

They look pretty strong. Owner hooks? Do you prefer the offset or the inline ones? Thanks for posting.

[J Barbosa]

They look pretty strong. Owner hooks? Do you prefer the offset or the inline ones? Thanks for posting.

Sorry, the ones posted above are not Owner hooks.

I just wanted to post examples of what inline and offset hooks look like.

If you are fishing circle hooks...inline is the only way to go.

They flat out work when you pick the right size and shape for the species you are targeting.

There is a reason most commercial long liners use them...in their care its not for the high survival rates.

[cowherder]

Thank you!

[DarkSkies]

Might be time to take a look at this thread again. If you folks have anything to add feel free. :HappyWave: