Manasquan public fluke meeting December 1

[bababooey]

This is for all the folks who are still interested in fishing for fluke and sea bass. Please try to be there, your opinion is needed.



The SSFFF will be holding a public meeting on Tuesday, 12/1 in Manasquan to address issues with the upcoming 2010 and beyond fluke seasons. A recommendation was recently made that would change the fluke season potentially to 2 fish at 19.5". Additionally, the black sea bass closure could just as easily be repeated as a summer flounder closure next year or in future years. Come on out to learn about these issues, how the Save the Summer Flounder Fishery Fund continues to address the problems and how you can help.

http://ssfff.net/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/ssfff/flyer_2009_final.jpg

[voyager35]

If you don't go to these meetings you have no one to complain to when the fishing is restricted. I might feel its useless but at least I let my voice be heard. Thanks for posting.

[finchaser]

I'll be there:thumbsup:

[DarkSkies]

bump for the meeting. Some people told me there is a lot of negative sentiment about these meetings and some people might not feel they're worthwhile to go and speak their mind, or at least keep up to date.

Ask yourself this question:

If they cut down on the fluke quota even further, what will the resulting pressure be on striped bass? http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon3.gif

Please try to go if you can make it, guys and girls. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Thanks. :thumbsup:

[gjb1969]

so true my grandmother would say the same thing so i think we need to show that it dose matter to us if thing keep going this way what will our kids kids have nothing and i dont want that:(

[gjb1969]

well if we as fisherman do not come togeather there will be no fishing at all the fisherman who say that they dont fish for fluke and think the problems will not hurt them u are wrong it can turn into a domino effect they shut down one season and the people will fish the others and before u know it they say the others are over fished and those are shut down and then what( people think) there were so few people at the meeting why ? lets stoping talking a good game and do something!!!!!!!:fishing:for the sake of the next generation:clapping:tite lines and good fishin guys:HappyWave:

[DarkSkies]

G and I went to that meeting. I estimated between 65 and 70 people were there. Finchaser was there, some other well-known figures in the fishing community, and some of the club guys (Shark River, etc) and some others from other websites. :HappyWave:

There were a lot of issues addressed, and I felt it gave a good explanation of how all the fisheries are inter-related.

I know the Bogans have a self-interest as well, because it concerns their jobs and their livelhood.

However, you could see that everyone on that panel has done their homework. It was evident from their responses to the questions that they have all sat in on many fisheries meetings and have tried to sort through what is a sea-of mind-numbing data to most people.

That's probably one of the reasons a lot of people don't get involved. It can beboring as hell, the the data and the bureacracy can turn even the most intelligent of us into a person who just wants a meeting to end. :eek:

I don't really fish for fluke or sea bass, yet I was there anyway, because I want to learn what I can, and try to do my part to support fishermen groups.

Make no mistake about it.... a lot of people are not willing to get involved on any level.

There are a lot of fishing websites out there. Even though there is some overlapping membership, we as fishermen in NJ number in the hundreds of thousands.

I felt a little sad that with all the internet participation, only a mere 65 to 70 guys were interested enough to show up. :(

Is that the best we can do??? :don't know why:



The 90/10 rule was mentioned.
10% of fishermen catch 90% of the fish. Why? Because they are committed, dedicated, obsessive, call it what you will, but they are fanatic in their pursuit of the goal of catching fish, and that's why they do well at it.

Well, the 90/10 also works for fishing meetings and involvement with issues that affect our future.

It says 90% of the guys out there (maybe more) are content to let the other 10% of the guys do the work and go to the meetings.

Ideally, with the numbers of fishermen we have living in NJ, there should be hundreds of people at those meeings, voicing their opinions and learning for themselves what's going on.

I know we are all busy, but will we be too busy when many of fish we fish for have unfair restrictions placed on them? What will we do then? :don't know why:

The time for action is now. I know I can't force anyone to go, or even shame you people into it. It's gotta be something ya WANT to do. :lookhappy:

What I can try to do here is bring the flavor of some of these meetings to you people here, and hope that along with the small number of guys at other websites that are asking for participation, we can drum up more interest, so you people are curious enough for yourselves to try and learn.




In that regard, I will follow a simple format, one that the guys already involved have been doing for years now:

EXPLAIN the issues
DOCUMENT why there is a problem
EDUCATE those who don't feel there is a problem.
SHOW alternative solutions and why some are better than others.
CREATE an INTEREST so more people will want to find learn about the issues by participating.

When I can, I will try to research some of the fishing legislation that got us here in the first place.

It's boring as hell, but it's the only ammunition we have in this fight against bureaucracy and people like the PEW trust. I heard references to them dozens of times last night.

And make no mistake about it, it is a FIGHT! :argue:

The people at the PEW trust have the goal of limiting ALL fishing for us and our children. :huh: That's clear as day.

Some of the reasons they MIGHT be successful are our complacency and unwillingness to organize on levels beyond what we are already doing.

Following I'll try to summarize the meeting from ny notes. The most important point I would like you people to consider is a comment made at a fisheries management meeting about the restrictions placed on us fishermen:


"Well, the restrictions won't change your lives too much. After all, if you don't fish, you could always take up golf." :kooky: :2flip: :2flip:



I don't know about you people, but I can't and won't accept this. Fishing is too important to me, it's tied into my whoie sense of happiness and well-being. I will not be one of those people who's happy to let others do the work, and then see my fishing rights taken away.

All I'm asking for you people, and others at other fishing websites, is to read up on this, and try to involve yourselves at a higher lever than you are now.

What I saw last night was a group of people who have taken a very pro-active stance, and have seen some changes, albeit small, come from that.

If I can help to get some more participation in those meetings, I will feel that I've done my part.

Remember: The future of fishing belongs to US, not the bureaucrats and scientists in charge of making these decisions for us. Change will not happen unless more of us get involved on some level. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon3.gif

[DarkSkies]

G and I got there late, but I was told the first part of the meeting was about the proposed "2 @ 19 1/2" COASTWIDE regs for the recreational fluke fishery.

NY has stricter measures right now, for sure, but this high bar will make it even tougher for boat anglers to even bring home one fluke, and will make it almost impossible for the guys fishing from shore.

It seems that no matter what we do or agree to, the next year the restrictions are always worse.

[DarkSkies]

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Some of the things he mentioned:

Fatally flawed data, from the current catch surveys.

MRFSS are being used to destroy our fishing. They are analogous to a bad credit card payment.

"We need more flexibility with the Magnusson Stevens Act"

"PEW funded folks are using the term 'overfishing' to scare the hell out of us."

Also, "some scientists are afraid of raising eyebrows by speaking out about data collection methods. Anyone that is involved in fisheries Stats on the academic level receives some sort of funding from the NMFS"

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"The socio-economic benefits of fishing" are something that need to be accounted for. The recreational angler spends billions of dollars fishing US waters. Especially in a poor economic climate, these spending dollars have to be taken into account.

Here's a related thread on MRFSS:
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=5494

[DarkSkies]

Other discussion:

I HR-1584 is a bill currently pending discussion and vote in the House of Representatives.

It has 23 co-sponsors, but more are needed.

"We need more people to be aware of this bill, and to apply more pressure to Sen Lautenberg to get this passed once it passes in the House of Representatives"

Here's a related thread on HR-1584:
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=5495

II Sea bass legal challenge:

The recent closure of the seabass waters beyond 3 miles will impact many people, not just charter captains. A certain % of people will stop fishing for them, as the sea bass beyond 3 miles on the offshore wrecks are the largest and most desired sea bass.

$24, 000 has been raised so far to fight this. Most of the $$ has come from Mom and Pop groups and grassroots organizations.

"10% of anglers do 90% of the work, and they need more participation. "

[DarkSkies]

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Theme:
"Everything is connected."

The sea bass fishery was shut down before reasonable data was in.

If they can do this to sea bass they can do it to fluke as well.

If you shut sea bass down for the summer, what will people fish for instead? .....FLUKE & STRIPED BASS! http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon3.gif

This will skyrocket the fluke landings numbers and put more and more pressure on this species.

Sea bass was considered 103% re-built, and now it is closed. What does that tell you about the mindset of fisheries management? :don't know why:

[DarkSkies]

This was my first time meeting Ray Bogan. Generally, I don't have a lot of respect or trust for attorneys. I feel they are masters at manipulating the truth, and when they are involved, the more important questions of right and wrong get tossed aside in favor of confusing people and clouding the issues. That being said, I was quite impressed with Ray and what he had to say. I found him to be a very effective communicator. It seemed to me he is a guy who knows sometimes you have to compromise to achieve your goals. I think they picked a very effective negotiator when they chose Ray. His passion for the rights of fishermen was evident every time he spoke. :thumbsup:

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"There is no alternative than to do this." That's why we hired MDR and its associates to do more research. We have accurate data and we have to convince them to review it.

"With regards to the NMFS data, we in the industry knew for years the landings data was flawed."

"Why do we continue to fight? An extra week of fishing is worth the fight"

"The MRFSS system was found to be 'fatally flawed' by the National Academy of Science"

[DarkSkies]

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"We need more guys to participate" It is the same 10% of people doing 90% of the work.

We want to let you guys know your money donated and time spent helping us is not un-noticed, nor will it go to waste. We have to continue fighting, or we will get nothing.

If you can get anyone interested in coming to the meetings who would not normally come, please do. We need all the support we can get.

[DarkSkies]

"Information is POWER in fisheries management. If you believe that, the way to have progress is to get involved in the science."

"You TEACH people this by showing them EVIDENCE so they can see for themselves" :learn:

*****

What I learned:
The Pew trust was mentioned dozens of times. They pay people in the fishing industry as spokespersons to further their agenda. This makes the statements of those people somehow seem more legitimate, as they usually come out as being critical of the industry or industry practices. It's a very manipulative tool used to obscure the truth and get people to make judgements on an emotional level.

[DarkSkies]

I don't really fish for fluke or sea bass, yet I was there anyway, because I want to learn what I can, and try to do my part to support fishermen groups.

Make no mistake about it.... a lot of people are not willing to get involved on any level.

There are a lot of fishing websites out there. Even though there is some overlapping membership, we as fishermen in NJ number in the hundreds of thousands.

I felt a little sad that with all the internet participation, only a mere 65 to 70 guys were interested enough to show up. :(

Is that the best we can do??? :don't know why:



Following I'll try to summarize the meeting from my notes. The most important point I would like you people to consider is a comment made at a fisheries management meeting about the restrictions placed on us fishermen:


"Well, the restrictions won't change your lives too much. After all, if you don't fish, you could always take up golf." :kooky: :2flip: :2flip:



I don't know about you people, but I can't and won't accept this. Fishing is too important to me, it's tied into my whoie sense of happiness and well-being. I will not be one of those people who's happy to let others do the work, and then see my fishing rights taken away....

Change will not happen unless more of us get involved on some level. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon3.gif



This is a post by Capt Ron Santee of the Fisherman out of Atlantic Highlands. I guess he feels the same way I do.


Capt.Ron/SSFFF Meeting Thoughts....
My initial thoughts of last nights meeting after seeing the lack of PROFESSIONAL people was "What the hell am I doing here". What is this board doing here? What are we about?
3 Pro's from Atlantic Highlands, Myself, Capt.Tom from the Atlantic Star and Pete from Atlantic Highlands Bait and Tackle....sorry, Jeff, from the Angler. No Charter guys from my port??

Was it no-one knew about the meeting, especially after it's been on this sight for weeks, it's been in the AB PP, The Fisherman Mag, the Ledger or does everyone just not give a crap?

If that's the case PLEASE LET ME know, I'd much rather sit on my fat *** watching T.V. having cocktails with my wife than running around this state begging for people to support us so we ALL can have a future Fishing!!!

After listening to Tony and especially Adam Nowalsky of Karen Ann II charters speak, I felt proud to be a part of what's going on...Adam didn't miss a beat, he had the numbers the facts and didn't need a Cue card. When asked a question, the answer was spontaneous and on point. Talk about passion!!
I felt proud to be sitting there and yet still feeling I should be doing more!!

Capt. Bill Burge, when you mentioned Anarchy I wanted to say "I am the boards "Anarchist" were just hoping it doesn't have to go that far, but trust me I am ready and have added you to list of J.B Kasper and Capt. Ralph Lehr as guys I can go to war with!!!!

While the rest sit home and *****, we still continue on. Maybe it's self pride, or anger that something so personal is being taken away, but as my buddy Ron said (and he keeps me on course) If you quit, "THEY WIN". Thanks Ron, you make me a Stronger man!! I'll hang in for the greater good...I just hope you all do too.....Capt.ron

[jigfreak]

Good point, I think a lot of people don't go because they think the decisions are already made and there is not much they can realistically do about it.

[plugcrazy]

I heard they might make the limit 2 at 19 1/2" for real. We might as well not fish for them at that size. You will have 100 throwbacks for every keeper in the beginning of the season, and only start to catch keepers right before it closes.:burn:

[finchaser]

2 at 19 1/2 would be a coast wide thing.

Nobama's appointed lady from PEW Dr. Lubchenco ( the one who shut down Sea Bass) is pushing for this . States would have no more say in the matter.
She also just shut down Amberjacks and Red Snapper in the Gulf.
They both have no use for recreational fisherman

She believes all recreational fishing should be catch and release only no bag limits just fish for fun of it.

[DarkSkies]

All of these pics really suck as far as the quality I'm used to taking. I have a 10MP camera and can take some fantastic shots.

The lighting in meeting rooms like that is usually terrible. I get my best shots in darker rooms when I can get about 4-5' away from people. I didn't want to do that in this meeting as I felt I would be a distraction.
I'd be glad to take a more aggressive stance in taking pics in the future. If anyone from the SSFFF wants better pics presented to the public, let me know either when ya see me or via e-mail or pm. :HappyWave:




Capt Tony Bogan, Ray Bogan, and Capt Adam from Cape May

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[DarkSkies]

The audience

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The panel

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[DarkSkies]

2 at 19 1/2 would be a coast wide thing.

Nobama's appointed lady from PEW Dr. L ( the one who shut down Sea Bass) is pushing for this . States would have no more say in the matter.
She also just shut down Amberjacks and Red Snapper in the Gulf.
They both have no use for recreational fisherman

She believes all recreational fishing should be catch and release only no bag limits just fish for fun of it.

Yup, they absolutely did shut down amberjack and red snapper. Red snapper was a staple of Southern fishing. The only way for many people to understand this is to ask them how they would feel if they shut down Striped Bass fishing on the East Coast? :kooky:

Shutting down red snapper fishing is THAT big of a deal to those people down south. Many people will be economically impacted by this decision. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.gif

Here's a thread referencing the red snapper closure:
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=5471

[vpass]

I went to the SSFFF.Net website, and started reading articles. Here's a few for you guys to read. Check them out and get involved.

http://www.ssfff.net/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/summerflounder.pdf

http://www.ssfff.net/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/radicalenvironmentalists.pdf


We are living in some rough times. They are trying to take all our rights away. We have to fight back.

http://www.ssfff.net/id49.html

[seamonkey]

Finally got around to reading this post. (Too much work, not enough time spent on fishing).

The reporting on this issue is incredible. Dark the details and pics were perfect. Just didn't get the time to head over to the meeting. It's good to know that I was able to be filled in.

Dr. Lubchenco is a bad seed for us. We all should be watching carefully what she is doing. If we don't we will be knocked down from behind unexpectedly.

[DarkSkies]

Finally got around to reading this post. (Too much work, not enough time spent on fishing).

The reporting on this issue is incredible. Dark the details and pics were perfect. Just didn't get the time to head over to the meeting. It's good to know that I was able to be filled in.

Dr. Lubchenco is a bad seed for us. We all should be watching carefully what she is doing. If we don't we will be knocked down from behind unexpectedly.


Thanks Seamonkey. :HappyWave: If you want to learn more about Dr Lubchenko take a look at this thread:
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=5506

And there's a Fishermen march on Washington Feb 17 2010 if anyone can make it:
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=5508


Here's some honest comments by Capt Ron of the Fisherman. It's sad that some guys can't muster up the initiative to up their participation even a little more. All these groups could use our help and meeting attendance. Even if ya don't have the time, it would be great if ya could donate a couple dollars to them. They fight every day for our rights, and pretty soon if Lubchenko has her way we'll have none. :(

************************

Capt.Ron/Fishermen/What's up with this??
I see the post about "Mates fishing" seems to have attracted alot of attention. Over 3,400 hits so far.... Boy, that's great.

How many people have posted and replied about the Fluke regs for next season, The Sea Bass Closure, the Red Snapper and Grouper closure or if we are coast wise or conservation equivalency for 2010?? Do you care, do you even know what it means?
Had all of these people donated just $5 to SSFFF after reading the post, we would have raised 15% of the cost to do the Data Study to fight MRFS.
Is it really about fishing anymore, or is it the little things that urk us when on a Charter or Party Boat?
Seems those storys always get the most ire outta people, I don't get it??
We have a Rougue agency going nuts, looking to put everyone off the ocean, yet only a few ***** and do something about it.
Winter is comming, everyone will forget and assume all will be well once again in the spring. Trust me, one Spring...it ain't gonna be here!! Then it will be too late to help. Capt.Ron