WHY should I care? WHY should I get involved? Why ME?

[DarkSkies]

If I told the story about catching 30 and 40# bass regularly in December in NJ and NY, from the surf, I'm sure a lot would want to hear it.

If I told the story about catching bass and blues in the fall run for days on end, people would want to hear that too.

If I told the story how the spring runs historically had you catching big bass both day AND night, people might pay attention.


Then why is it so hard to get people to pay attention to the fact that those days are distant memories? :fishing:


Even the "great fall fishing" that people are talking about this year is a slim reminder of what it once was.

You don't have to go back 20 years to see this. Just go back 5, look at some catch reports, see for yourself. :learn:

[DarkSkies]

No judgement here, but I'm seeing this enough in the fishing world that I think it merits discussion. I'd like to use this thread as an ongoing dialogue as to what's happening to our fishing resources, laws and legislation, and why we should give an eff about it. :eek:



"Well Dark I only fish a few times a year, why should I care?"

"Well, I have a family to take care of, and small kids at home. They take up all my time."

"Ya know how bad this economy is!@!! The best I can do is hold on to my job. I don't have time to do anything else!!"

"Well why should I get involved in something if most everyone doesn't care about it anyway? Why should it be only on the shoulders of me and a few other guys?" :huh:

"What's the use? They're only going to shut down our fisheries anyway. Ya know what they say, you can't fight city hall!" :burn:


"Get involved? You sound like Chicken Little, dude!! There's plenty of bass and other fish to go around for everyone. You make too much out of nothing, dude, you're delusional!" :kooky:


"Besides, even if we do get involved, what's the use? How can one person make a difference?"

"I'd rather leave it up to the other guys. I just don't have the time"

[DarkSkies]

As I said, all of the above are valid comments made by us as fishermen who need to balance fishing with family, maintaining a job, and being involved with all the responsibilities we face every day.

Maybe asking people to participate is asking too much? :don't know why: There's a small group of people who will always do what they can and become big supporters of any issues fishermen face.

Historically, there's a much larger % that can't be bothered. (the 90/10 rule which accounts for fishing success as well as political involvement)

We all know that, I don't expect to change that with my words alone. However, if I can grab the attention of a few of ya, and attract then interest of a few others to go and do some research, then I'll consider my long-winded posts ;) to be worth the time and effort.

[DarkSkies]

(I'll fill in later)

[DarkSkies]

I wondered if all the guys out there were aware of the comprehensive nature of these changes. A brief overview:

Winter flounder:

Summer flounder/fluke:

Weakfish:


Grouper:

Red snapper:

Sea bass:

[DarkSkies]

So why should I give an eff about all the rest of those? :huh:

[DarkSkies]

Finchaser posted up some good reasons to get involved. I wanted to highlight them here:


[For all recreational fisherman which encompasses people who fish on party boats,charter boats and the beach. Plus most tackle shop owners fish.

I do all three, as many saltwater fisherman do. Surf is dead so we fish boats for cod,pollack,hake and ling.
Always fish boats for fluke,blackfish( fish that are good eating)
We no longer can fish for seabass, which is part of the fight the RFA and SSFFF are undertaking.

1.The commercial guys pay lobbyists to get there way from government ( large fish quota's) they want ours.

2.The RFA (Recreational Fishing Alliance) lobbies for us from the donations and memberships, thats where all the money goes.

Remember the money which goes to the economy is what government looks at. The money spent by beach fisherman is like a pimple on an elephants *** compared to boat sector. With out the boat sector we would have no quota's it would all be commercial,which government (DR. Lubchenco) wants.
The more fisheries they shut down the worse it's gonna be.

Just this year 2009 since Ms Lubchenco took over NOAA thanks to Obama (she came from PEW)
For 2009
1. Seabass shut down here
2. Red Snapper,Amberjack in florida shut down
3. Weakfish here

For 2010
a. seabass 2 months instead of 12 months
b. weakfish 1 fish instead of 6
c. new fluke regulations
d. possible new striper regulations


These are all fights the RFA is involved in to over turn,hence the seabass lawsuit against government,fighting to keep fluke and Striped bass regulations and quota the same. They fight to keep recreational fish quotas from going to the commercials and other fisheries from being shut down. There are 2 groups Recreational and Commercial period thats how fish are split up.

If we fish for them from land or sea really has no bearing we are recreational fisherman it's our quota we want to save. Remember with out bass and blues beach guy's disappear and no one would care especially beach front home owners who also support government against us with political contributions. ] (todaysgift@hazelden.info)

[DarkSkies]

Guys, kudos to all who are concerned enough to ask questions. There are no stupid questions. Learning is a process, and I commend anyone who wants to learn more. :thumbsup:

The motive behind this thread is to educate people more so they will have the incentive to make conscious choices to keep learning, and possibly getting involved.

I may seem like I'm preaching here guys and girls, but this is our fishing future.

The Bill of Rights gives citizens the right to bear arms. :clapping:
However it doesn't give us an automatic right to hunt or fish. As I see these rights trampled on, I can't help but become more and more involved.

I'm inviting some of you here to do that as well. I realize the decision is entirely up to you. I just want to be able to present some things which I hope will help you in your research.

[DarkSkies]

A lot of people laughed this off. If you think about it rationally, it's a brilliant campaign designed ultimately to prevent or restrict us from fishing.

These devious eco-freaks have designed a very intelligent campaign to get into the minds of schoolchildren and get them to think about fish as delicate creatures that they can adopt as pets or feel sorry for. :(

Make no mistake about it, the obvious intent is to turn the young generations against fishing. A very well placed strategic move in their war against anyone who fishes.

I could merely just say :2flip::2flip: to PETA and the PEW trust people, but have realized that just because I give them an :2flip: they won't go away.

In fact, they become stronger every year as they place their disciples in key gov't positions. :learn:

They get stronger, while we fishermen argue among ourselves. :kooky:



A key disciple of theirs is Dr Jane Lubchenko, current head of the NOAA. This is the most powerful gov't organization today that has control over fishing rights.

OUR fishing rights.

And this one woman is in a position of power to shut off our rights as easily as someone turns off a light switch.

She has done this several times.

When will she come gunning to shut the striped bass fishing down?

Not possible, you say?
Don't bet your house on it. :lookhappy:

[DarkSkies]

Let's hear what you guys have to say, positive or negative. That's the only way for people to learn. :thumbsup:

[Monty]

Where as a few years ago I would look at what is better for everyone, its not that way anymore.
I love fishing, do not need to catch fish to have a great time. I am all for restricting catch limits, raising minimum sizes and eliminating the commercial fishing industry. In the case of the commercial fishing industry, I believe constant pressure on them to reduce their catch and bycatch amounts is required. I also have big problems with charters limiting out +bonus fish on stripers.
If there was an organization that I agreed with on their views and what they were doing to reach certain goals, I would join it and support it. I am sick and tired of compromise.
Till then I will choose for what "action, proposition, etc." I write letters and sign petitions for.
That said, do we really want the fishing to be better than this year? Have you read Finchaser's reports this year? What challange would it be for him if there were more fish?

[finchaser]

Where as a few years ago I would look at what is better for everyone, its not that way anymore.
I love fishing, do not need to catch fish to have a great time. I am all for restricting catch limits, raising minimum sizes and eliminating the commercial fishing industry. In the case of the commercial fishing industry, I believe constant pressure on them to reduce their catch and bycatch amounts is required. I also have big problems with charters limiting out +bonus fish on stripers.
If there was an organization that I agreed with on their views and what they were doing to reach certain goals, I would join it and support it. I am sick and tired of compromise.
Till then I will choose for what "action, proposition, etc." I write letters and sign petitions for.
That said, do we really want the fishing to be better than this year? Have you read Finchaser's reports this year? What challange would it be for him if there were more fish?

Sorry you feel that way,
And by the way fishing this year sucked compared to years past. It is on a decline from the mass desrtuction done by bunker snaggers and charter boats in Virginia and NC in the winter.

Fishing is always a challenge to me ,yes I catch allot of bass from skills I've learned through the years. Many of which were acquired during the moratorium when you sometimes fished for weeks to catch a fish. :(If things keep up as they are we will be back there in no time. The more we give up the more we will never get back. I'm not in favor of bonus tags but remember that started for the beach guys,the government let boats do what they do with them to help them stay in business and get the recreational guys off there backs.
Remember letters fall on deaf ears and are answered with a form letter from a government officials aid while commercial lobbists wine and dine polititions and take our fish.

Pick up a copy of Sport fishing magazine there is a full page editorial on recreational fisherman loosing the fight against government nation wide and are uniting to fight back.

[jimbob]

This really needs to be about fish and the ecosystem that supports them. It is not about who can have more of the resource, commercial or recreational. If we can protect the ecosystems, everyone will have a share available. If we keep arguing who should get more fish, nothing will change, the fisheries will collapse, and nobody gets anything.
Fisheries management is broken; it is obvious that what has been done in the past is not working. We need to implement progressive ideas to make management work to save and maintain fisheries. Everything I read about NOAA management plans sound good. If you are just going to decide that a manager is going to do a bad job because she was associated with an organization you don't agree with, you may be making a mistake. She has many positive qualities.
Don't fear new management policies, they might work. The old policies are failing. I would like to see all the people who say Obama's policies will not work, come up with thier own ideas on management.

[Monty]

Sorry you feel that way,
And by the way fishing this year sucked compared to years past. It is on a decline from the mass destruction done by bunker snaggers and charter boats in Virginia and NC in the winter.


I did not mean for it to sound like I want the stocks depleted if it sounded that way (I want the opposite). I feel better fishing management is needed (recreational and commercial). As you state if I interpreted what you wrote correctly, people cause this problem.
I feel they cannot go against their nature and do the things required for stocks to recover without guidance (laws).

I also feel its hypocritical for me to be on the same side as the charter boats catching limits + of 20 pound and up bass.
That is just how I feel (now).
I know these people need to make a living, but I just do not like them killing so many fish.


I just read the article by Doug Olander "To Late to Stop the Train Wreck?". Its alarming the things mentioned in the article are happening to the recreational fishermen. Its almost unbelievable that people on certain positions are so out of touch with what is happening. Its even more troubling with so many branches in the government are so out of touch with whats happening in the USA. Views today by government officials are so skewed by $$ that its disgusting. Not sure what to do about it.

And I do realize that fishing (catching) is on the down side and share your view on where it could be headed. My reference to how many fish you caught this year was a mere reflection of your skills :).


Is it us (surf fisherman, boat fisherman, charter boats, party boats and tackle manufacturers) against commercials? Trying to divide the fish quota?
Trying to set fair limits for all that will enable the respective fish stocks to recover?

[DarkSkies]

Here's the link to their site.
http://www.stripersforever.org/Info/index

I noticed sometimes people aren't motivated to click a link. Here's some of the reasons why you should:










Initiatives, Past and Present






Below you will find links to some of Stripers Forever’s most important initiatives. This work is designed to convince policy makers to enhance wild striped bass populations by removing the pressures of market fishing. The best way to start supporting SF’s efforts is to Become A Member – free with a very short sign up through this link (http://www.stripersforever.org/membership.shtml). Read on, and don’t hesitate to contact us (stripers@whatifnet.com) with any questions.





1. Announcing H796 a bill to designate wild striped bass as game fish in the state waters of Massachusetts. (http://www.stripersforever.org/Info/Stripers_MA/actions) We urge all of our members to go http://www.mass.gov/legis/, find their represenatives, and send them an e-mail today in your own words that asks them to support H796, a bill to make striped bass a game fish in Massachusetts.






2. Successful Opposition to Re-opening the EEZ produces Executive Order from President Bush (http://www.stripersforever.org/Info/Stripers_BBoard/I00ECF51D) - Stripers Forever was one of the leaders in the effort to keep commercial interests from reopening the EEZ which had been closed to the taking of striped bass since the collapse of the 1980s. With large stripers becoming more scare inshore some commercial interests had pressured the ASMFC to let them fish in this protected zone. Note - to view history of SF's opposition to reopening the EEZ click this link (http://www.stripersforever.org/Info/EEZOPPOSHISTORY).





3. The Southwick Studies (http://www.stripersforever.org/Info/southwickstudy) - The Southwick Study, commissioned by SF, compares the relative economic values of commercial and recreational striped bass fishing, and it takes the important step of determining what the socio-economic landscape would be like if commercial fishing for wild striped bass were to cease and the fishery managed purely for recreational/personal-use fishing.









They're also behind quite a few powerful and compelling articles on the state of striped bass today:





I read the Ted williams article several times. I thought he painted a compelling and detailed picture of what is happening today, much better than I ever could. There is no anger or rage in his article, just cold hard facts backing the conclusions he makes.


Ted Williams FR&R On Striped Bass Game Fish July 2009
Attachments:
http://www.stripersforever.org/Icons/su9623
TedWilliams July 2009.pdf (http://www.stripersforever.org/Info/Stripers_BBoard/I011EB99C.0/TedWilliams%20July%202009.pdf)
Size: 814K
Last Updated: 2009/7/2


http://www.stripersforever.org/Icons/0http://www.stripersforever.org/Icons/0

The above attachment is a story by the noted author, Ted Williams which appears in the current issue of Fly Rod and Reel. The story addresses the state of striped bass in his home state of Massachusetts and Ted's thoughts on making striped bass a game fish. You'll find it a good read. Here is a brief summary of Ted's credentials.







Ted Williams - not the baseball player - has been writing full time on environmental issues, with special attention to fish and wildlife conservation, since 1970. In addition to freelancing for national magazines, he contributes regular feature-length conservation columns to Audubon and Fly Rod & Reel where he serves as Editor-at-Large and Conservation Editor respectively.









2009 Annual Fishing Survey Results
Attachments:
http://www.stripersforever.org/Icons/su9621
2009 Survey Results and Comments.xls (http://www.stripersforever.org/Info/Stripers_BBoard/I012D4279.0/2009%20Survey%20Results%20and%20Comments.xls)
Size: 279K
Last Updated: 2009/12/12
http://www.stripersforever.org/Icons/su9620
2009Commentary.doc (http://www.stripersforever.org/Info/Stripers_BBoard/I012D4279.1/2009Commentary.doc)
Size: 76K
Last Updated: 2009/12/7
http://www.stripersforever.org/Icons/su9621
Key Comparisons 2003,4,5,6,7,8,9version 2.xls (http://www.stripersforever.org/Info/Stripers_BBoard/I012D4279.2/Key%20Comparisons%202003,4,5,6,7,8,9version%202.xl s)
Size: 33K
Last Updated: 2009/12/7


http://www.stripersforever.org/Icons/0http://www.stripersforever.org/Icons/0

Stripers Forever's 2009 annual fishing survey results are in. This is our 7th consecutive year of polling guides and recreational anglers from SC to ME on their striped bass fishing experiences and preferences for management measures. The survey data comes from a very experienced group of fishermen representing all the major coastal striped bass states. This year’s results are particularly important since we used Survey Monkey software to obtain surveys from a record 906 respondents including 82 guides representing most coastal states. It will not surprise many of you to read that the overwhelming majority of anglers see the striper fishery as declining significantly. The results and our comments are in the attached documents above.








2009 YOY Disappointing


Attachments:

http://www.stripersforever.org/Icons/su9623
2009YOYPDFfinalSF.pdf (http://www.stripersforever.org/Info/Stripers_BBoard/I01286CC4.0/2009YOYPDFfinalSF.pdf)
Size: 320K
Last Updated: 2009/10/21




http://www.stripersforever.org/Icons/0http://www.stripersforever.org/Icons/0

The Chesapeake Bay, striped bass, young of the year survey for 2009 is out. While the number is better than last year's dismal result it is well below the long term trend, and will certainly not begin to support the fishing pressure currently applied to striped bass. David Ross PhD. a SF board member and fishery scientist comments on the latest numbers in the attached document.




http://www.stripersforever.org/Icons/0http://www.stripersforever.org/Icons/0








http://www.stripersforever.org/Icons/0http://www.stripersforever.org/Icons/0

[Monty]

Finchaser mentioned the mass destruction done by bunker snaggers and charter boats in Virginia and NC in the winter.
Does anyone know where the RFA stands on this?

[vpass]

I might not agree on everything the RFA supports. I do understand the points that Monty brought up about the party boat and agree a lot with him, but at this moment the RFA might be best game in town to Lobby against the Gov/Com. I have / will be reading a lot about the other Organizations and what are there missions.

I’m just curious is it better to have many groups that are interested in the same goals, or is it better to unite them as one. What I’m talking about is the SSFFF, JCAA, Striperforever, RFA, and Others? (I’m not sure if there are others at the moment.) Could our voices be stronger if all groups where united?

[finchaser]

:(IMO except for JCAA the other are all pretty much talking and the RFA does the Lobbing in Washington the march on Washington in February was started by RFA and SSFFF to show unity of the recreational sector. Buses have been set up in 4 locations to bring anglers to Washington for $32.00 round trip.

Main concern now is fisheries being shut down by Ms. Lubchenco the PEW appointed Obama puppet. These closures are putting extreme pressure on Striped Bass and fluke which if they become over fished will shut them down next.

Over fished is different from over quota.

Over quota means you surpassed the government assigned quota
Over fished means a species is harvested faster then nature can supply it.

All the activists groups always used the term over fished when they lobby in Washington important to remember. Pew is now paying charter boat captains to convey this to the public.

Inaccurate over fished information caused seabass to be closed even though it was 103% rebuilt 3 years ahead of schedule.
Weakfish are truly over fished
Winter flounder will probably have no 2010 recreational season

So at any time Ms. Lubchenco deems bass or fluke over fished it's all over this is why it's so important to protect them now.

Plus she is not in favor of all coastal states having there own rules( like NJ has 2 bass @28"), she wants coastal NOAA size and bag limits giving her total control of all recreational fisheries.

The editorial in Sport Fishing magazine "To Late to Stop the Train Wreck" is down right sickening if you are a recreational fisherman.

[DarkSkies]

Here it is:

http://www.sportfishingmag.com/


8981

8982

8983

9009

[Monty]

It seems like Lubchenco is very conservative. Is she shutting down commercial fishing also? Why is a set size and limit for all states not the best way (if it was set at a consevative #)? These questions are relative to the stance that the RFA takes. Does the RFA have a stance on the current striper regulations in NJ/NY which I feel are terrible and should be changed (1 fish per person is plenty and raise the size to 36")? If the RFA is "looking out for charters, surf/boat fisheman", they more than likely do not want to reduce the current regs.

[finchaser]

It seems like Lubchenco is very conservative. Is she shutting down commercial fishing also? Why is a set size and limit for all states not the best way (if it was set at a consevative #)? These questions are relative to the stance that the RFA takes. Does the RFA have a stance on the current striper regulations in NJ/NY which I feel are terrible and should be changed (1 fish per person is plenty and raise the size to 36")? If the RFA is "looking out for charters, surf/boat fisheman", they more than likely do not want to reduce the current regs.

No most commercial fishing goes on as normal or with increases, she just goes after the recreational guys which she has no use for.
As stated without us things would be easier to manage and lets not forget renaming fish to sea kittens to teach children not to kill fish that's the side Ms. L sides with.
This is what the RFA fights for our right to catch and bring home a fish to eat when you want to. Forget about the bass it's way beyond that now.

I agree with a 1 fish at 28 to 32" was great when we had that stocks built fast and way less people fished for them. Most importantly it would spare the most prolific breeders in the 32 to 36 inch range. Even a true trophy tag of 1 fish over 50" per year per angler.But it's not just about bass anymore.

The coastal size was first suggested for 2010 for fluke 2 fish at 19 1/2 inches which would wipe out most breeding females. No science was even considered on this one. SSFFF and RFA played a major role in it's defeat.

Once the states have no say our congressman and senators become almost totally useless.The RFA works in conjunction with the good ones like Pallone to help get bills passed. Like the beloved bunker bill which in some instance people care more about than the bass because without bunker they couldn't catch a bass. The mind set if there are bunker there will be bass. Yep there like Dorrito's will just make more bass

But this is about recreational rights to catch and keep fish any kind not just bass. IMO they are testing the waters.

The new registry is going in place so they can call fisherman instead of people out of the phone book which led to some of the inaccurate info which caused allot of this mess.

Another problem is Obama is not a sportsman like Bush and others were, his appointment of Lubchenco in 2/09 from PEW some think was a political payback.

So as stated by editorial,conservation columns this is about our rights, forget about bass, 5 fisheries have been closed in less than a year and others are being targeted..:burn:

Everyone needs to start looking at the BIG PICTURE or bass will fall by the wayside and I personally don't want that twice in my lifetime

The End

[Monty]

Thanks Dark and Finchaser for the info and opinions. I'll be supporting the RFA, it makes lots of sense.

[vpass]

The same as Monty said. Thanks Guys. I'm jumping aboard with RFA. I'm joining.

[Jackbass]

It seems like Lubchenco is very conservative. Is she shutting down commercial fishing also?

Lubchenco is Conservative so long as it pertains to the people buttering her Bread. Some of the things she and her cronies are proposing make me toss in my mouth a bit.

I agree with DSkies Stripers Forever is truly focused on Striped bass conservation and trying like hell to open ears and minds to what is really going on with fisheries management.

Other reasons you should join Stripers Forever

1. The group is 100 percent volunteer based and runs it self strictly on donations. Not a single dime of money that comes into that group, does not go to Conservation efforts

2. Many of the Founding members of Stripers forever have lived through the Striper wars and the moratorium and have seen the Ebb and Flow of Striper Populations.

3. They propose sound management of stocks while eliminating commercial fishing.

Un Like the NJ bonus tag system the current Gamefish Bill in MA proposes the entire MA quota be earmarked for conservation not returned to the national quota or slated for rec. take.

In fact they actually propose eliminating a keeper per outing per rec angler. Reducing the take to one per day.


I understand people think comm fisherman and recreational fisherman each have a place on the water but from where I stand any time a fish has a dollar sign attached to its head the dollar sign becomes more important than the fish.

The more members SF has the bigger voice it has with law makers.

[finchaser]

Florida-no Grouper
just got off the phone with an old friend.he charters in the keys.as of jan. 1 no grouper for 4 months.they already took away the red snapper,now grouper.what is next for them.he is from n.j. and i told him about our situation with the winter flounder and weakfish.it was always my plan to semi retire in the keys and charter part time.i guess i should make new plans.wish i could here some good news for a change.if they mess with the stripers i quit!!:mad:
__________________
Captain Sal Cursi

[ledhead36]

A lot of people laughed this off. If you think about it rationally, it's a brilliant campaign designed ultimately to prevent or restrict us from fishing.

These devious eco-freaks have designed a very intelligent campaign to get into the minds of schoolchildren and get them to think about fish as delicate creatures that they can adopt as pets or feel sorry for. :(

Make no mistake about it, the obvious intent is to turn the young generations against fishing. A very well placed strategic move in their war against anyone who fishes.

I could merely just say :2flip::2flip: to PETA and the PEW trust people, but have realized that just because I give them an :2flip: they won't go away.

In fact, they become stronger every year as they place their disciples in key gov't positions. :learn:

They get stronger, while we fishermen argue among ourselves. :kooky:





The sea kittens campaign was stupid. I agree it was brilliant as well. We should find out where the head leaders live and send them rotting bunker heads in the mail. Maybe they can make bunker kittens out of them. :2flip:

[storminsteve]

.

I could merely just say :2flip::2flip: to PETA

Does PETA protect all fish?;)
8989

[nitestrikes]

Historically, there's a much larger % that can't be bothered. (the 90/10 rule which accounts for fishing success as well as political involvement)



I think that holds true for a lot of things. People don't get involved unless the issue is right in their backyard. Good thread, I'm joining Stripersforever this week.

[dogfish]

I got a better peta one for ya Steve. Ducks unlimited.

8992

[DarkSkies]

Here's a little more about Bob and the things he was involved in:




Stripers Forever members - some of you may have read about the recent passing of Bob Pond of Attleboro, MA, the creator of the Atom plug. We can quickly count at least half of Stripers Forever's board who were members of the now defunct Stripers Unlimited organization which Bob Pond founded. **** Russell, author of Striper Wars, was an old friend of Bob's and consulted him while he wrote that book. **** sent us these words about Bob Pond to share with our membership.




"The passing of Bob Pond at 92 is a great loss, for he was the true pioneer of striped bass conservation. Without Bob's sounding the alarm about the striper population in the mid-1960s, long before anyone else thought there was a problem, this magnificent fish would likely have disappeared from Atlantic coastal waters. After creating the legendary Atom plug used with success by so many anglers, Bob devoted his life to preserving striped bass for future generations. It is our job now to carry his legacy forward. Thank you, Bob Pond, and may you rest in peace. - **** Russell."




We at Stripers Forever share those sentiments





Picture below of Bob Pond from Attleboro, MA newspaper
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=9008&d=1262554925

[stripercrazy]

I think I read here that when Bob Pond started talking about conservation, people didn't want to listen back then either. They finally listened when the fishing was shut down for the moratorium.

[Jackbass]

People Still don't want to listen. People still believe what ever their own agenda tells them is right. The people that do believe in conservation like me do take it on the chin from certain sectors of the fishing world. But the idea is gaining ground.

[DarkSkies]

Effectiveness of different strategies
Many times guys will ask me: "Well, ya know, how can I be certain that my letter will make a difference? won't it just get thrown away, or read by an aide?"

Those are good questions, and valid. There are times when it may seem not as productive to write letters, IMO if you want the attention of politicians here are the ways to do it, from the most effective to the least:

1. Granting, or withholding, campaign contributions.

2. Lobbyist contact attempts and meetings by lobbyists who represent a specific constituent group.

3. Personal protests and demonstrations. Nothing is more visually impressive than an organized protest. Politicians know they bring news coverage, and don't want any negative press connected with their names.

4. Q&A sessions where a politician is exposed to public questions. Politicians are very responsive to any public meeting they attend where they see a good number of citizens (ie potential voters) are galvanized for or against a particular issue.

5. Letter writing campaigns. Politicians know they have to pay attention if the volume is high. There are several categories within this:
a) Hand written letters - hand written letters are usually more effective, because almost no one does this anymore. If legible, carefully worded, and not too long, (that leaves me out!! :laugh:) these have the best chance of getting read by the actual politician. Only the best of the best letters have a chance of reaching this point.
b) Form letters or postcards - effective, but usually only to calculate the sheer number of voters that are pissed off about an issue.


6. E-mail campaigns and online petitions. Although it's easier for our generation to do this, the truth is most politicians don't read their e-mails. How can you expect them to if they get thousands of them? http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/smilies/don't%20know%20why.gif I would say if anyone wants to do this, if you don't have time to participate in any of the ways above, by all means you should send one. It can't hurt.

But also realize it's one of the least effective strategically. There's no consistent way to prove if a politician ever got or had the chance to read your e-mail, no matter how passionate it may sound.




************************


If you don't have the time, resources, or energy to get physically involved, that's OK. You can't expect everyone to feel the same way you do on any given issue. That's one of the reasons you'll notice here while this year I'll be trying to promote C&R more, I don't ever think it's fair to shove those views down someone's throat. :argue:

I like to eat fish I catch at times, and don't want anyone else to preach to me that I shouldn't. I'm sure many of you feel the same way.

So C&R, just like joining an organization and supporting them, should be a personal, voluntary choice. On the other hand, if someone does nothing to stand up for their fishing rights in any way, then they would not have any grounds to complain when those rights are arbitrarily taken away. :learn:

Also, if you really don't have the time to get involved, you can help to make a difference by contributing to the organization whose vision most fits yours.

Please realize I'm not nesessarily pitching here for you so send money to the JCAA, RFA, SSFFF or whatever organization we're talking about at the moment.

These are all personal choices, whether we give something or not. I merely wanted to offer those who were concerned, an optional choice.

[DarkSkies]

NJ legislature contact info
http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/ (http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/)

[captnemo]

You can't expect everyone to feel the same way you do on any given issue. That's one of the reasons you'll notice here while this year I'll be trying to promote C&R more, I don't ever think it's fair to shove those views down someone's throat. :argue:

I like to eat fish I catch at times, and don't want anyone else to preach to me that I shouldn't. I'm sure many of you feel the same way.

So C&R, just like joining an organization and supporting them, should be a personal, voluntary choice. On the other hand, if someone does nothing to stand up for their fishing rights in any way, then they would not have any grounds to complain when those rights are arbitrarily taken away. :learn:

Also, if you really don't have the time to get involved, you can help to make a difference by contributing to the organization whose vision most fits yours.

Please realize I'm not nesessarily pitching here for you so send money to the JCAA, RFA, SSFFF or whatever organization we're talking about at the moment.

These are all personal choices, whether we give something or not. I merely wanted to offer those who were concerned, an optional choice.


I am glad to see you phrased it that way darkskies. That's one of the reasons that makes it worth coming here. Thanks for the effort.

[Hemi]

for the NY boys
you know there is a man out there named willie young
he heads MSA and the coalition (NYCRF)
do you know he knows more assembly men/women and senators in new york state then anyone i know who isnt in politics
ive been to albany with him and chatted with these politicians and believe me they are reachable

these politicians do not know or have time to get details about the things we hold dear to us
i have been told that any information sent to these people is better then nothing
if only one side of the debate sends info what else are they to do
you guys all know the problems we are facen yet at last nights New York Coalition for Recreational Fishermen meeting there were only 14 people
we all have lives
but when there is no more fishing to get away from your lives whatcha gonna do then ?

New York Coalition for Recreational Fishermen
Montauk Surfcasters Association
Long Island Beach Buggy Association

all of these groups kick *** and take names for fighting to keep us fishing in all ways and fourms
come to a meeting
ask some questions
take some notes
bring some ideas
lookem up on the net
do something aside from sitting on the internet talking about it

:lynchmob: is what we need to win

[DarkSkies]

for the NY boys
you know there is a man out there named willie young
he heads MSA and the coalition (NYCRF)
do you know he knows more assembly men/women and senators in new york state then anyone i know who isnt in politics
ive been to albany with him and chatted with these politicians and believe me they are reachable

these politicians do not know or have time to get details about the things we hold dear to us
i have been told that any information sent to these people is better then nothing
if only one side of the debate sends info what else are they to do
you guys all know the problems we are facen yet at last nights New York Coalition for Recreational Fishermen meeting there were only 14 people
we all have lives
but when there is no more fishing to get away from your lives whatcha gonna do then ?

New York Coalition for Recreational Fishermen
Montauk Surfcasters Association
Long Island Beach Buggy Association

all of these groups kick *** and take names for fighting to keep us fishing in all ways and fourms
come to a meeting
ask some questions
take some notes
bring some ideas
lookem up on the net
do something aside from sitting on the internet talking about it

:lynchmob: is what we need to win


Right on the $$ with those comments, Hemi. Anyone who is active in the rights of fishermen in the LI area has to have heard of Willy. It's been said he did more for LI fishermen access in the early years that any 10 guys put together. :thumbsup:

And as Willy gets older, he's still full of fire and energy. Nonetheless, more soldiers are needed to get involved in this fight for fishermens' rights. Make no mistake, it is a fight, there are powerful, well-funded groups out there who hate fishermen and would rather we all gave up fishing to play golf.

There are even members of fisheries management committees who have no clue about the passion we have for fishing. Some of them have jokingly said if we lose access to fishing some species..

"...we can always take up golf". :kooky:

That's why I and others try to raise awareness. You're doing the same job too, Hemi, trying to rouse the troops of fishermen in the trenches for when support is needed.

And what do we get????

14 guys at a meeting.

Appalling, such lack of support. Yet, that's how it goes.

It's been said that 90% of the fishermen are happy to let the other 10% do the work. That's who you see at the meetings all the time, Hemi, you, and a few others, and guys like Willy trying to light a fire.

What can I say except keep up the good work. Going to the meetings and fisheries management meetings sucks. It's boring as hell, many guys say they have better things to do.

We'll all have to find better things to do if the day comes when we can't fish for striped bass anymore. :don't know why:

So like Hemi said, please consider getting involved. If you can't, then try to give some $$ to support those groups who will fight for you. :thumbsup:

[DarkSkies]

I've been meeting different RFA members and trying to get their perspectives of what they do and why fishermen should consider getting involved in fisheries management and fishermen issues.

I met these gentlemen at the Greater Phila Sportsmans show in Oaks, PA last week.
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=6074




I'll try to post up some more interviews as I get time.

2-28-10 RFA Joe Wrigley interview
Joe is the tri-state coordinator and a PA delegate of the RFA
Joe has been fishin for over 50 yerars. :thumbsup:

9842855


Joe answers the question why fishermen should get involved...

9842925









2-28-10 RFA Jim Wynn interview.
Jim is a grassroots coordinator for the PA area.

9842801

[DarkSkies]

2-24-10 Jim Smarr Texas RFA rep interview at Fishermens' march on Washington rally

9770541

[DarkSkies]

Effectiveness of different strategies
6. E-mail campaigns and online petitions. Although it's easier for our generation to do this, the truth is most politicians don't read their e-mails. How can you expect them to if they get thousands of them? http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/smilies/don't%20know%20why.gif I would say if anyone wants to do this, if you don't have time to participate in any of the ways above, by all means you should send one. It can't hurt.

But also realize it's one of the least effective strategically. There's no consistent way to prove if a politician ever got or had the chance to read your e-mail, no matter how passionate it may sound.




************************



Also, if you really don't have the time to get involved, you can help to make a difference by contributing to the organization whose vision most fits yours.

Please realize I'm not nesessarily pitching here for you so send money to the JCAA, RFA, SSFFF or whatever organization we're talking about at the moment.

These are all personal choices, whether we give something or not. I merely wanted to offer those who were concerned, an optional choice.




***********
A member here sent a letter to NOAA. The response he got back in return shows that his opinion was discounted and minimized. He got a standard form letter, which may indicate his letter was never even read at all. :don't know why:

This is a further push to get you people involved and support fishermen PACS like the RFA. They get the responses and results that we can't get individually. Meanwhile, there is a push for the new bunker bill, for guys to write to their congresssmen, etc. If you're tempted to write such a letter, first ask yourself if it will get read at all? :huh:

**************

The Letter:
Dear Mr. Schwab -




Thank you for holding the recent Saltwater Anglers Recreational Fishing Summit. I understand that NMFS is prepared to recognize the need for different management measures and fairer allocations concerning fish species that are important to the recreational angling community. We could start with striped bass on the Atlantic coast.


NMFS reps to the ASMFC have been at best allocation neutral in spite of studies that clearly show the maximum public benefit would come from a total allocation to the recreational community. Additionally, NMFS reps have not recognized the need for more conservative management of striped bass and now the great success story of the striper's recovery is more than threatened. Recreational catches have declined over 50 percent annually in the last few years, and there are no good year classes in the wings. Meanwhile, commercial catches have continued without reduced quotas and large illegal commercial catches have also been verified.


Please direct your representatives to strongly support decreased fishing mortality for striped bass and to safeguard the already declining recreational share of this resource."

thank you





The Response:

Thank you for taking the time to write in with your thoughts. I thought that the recent summit was a very productive meeting. We are evaluating that input and identifying an action agenda to build off of the ideas expressed at the summit.

Thank you for your email expressing concern for the status of the Atlantic striped bass stock. Striped bass management has been a great success in restoring one of the East coast’s most popular fisheries. At the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (ASMFC) recent meeting, NOAA Fisheries Service expressed concern about ASMFC taking action that could lead to increased mortality with striped bass. The ASMFC will be taking the draft Addendum to public hearings, giving you an opportunity to make your comments known on the management of this important fishery.

As you know, the Exclusive Economic Zone (3 miles offshore to 200 miles) remains closed, as a conservation measure, to commercial and recreational fishing for striped bass. We take our management responsibilities seriously and continue to work closely with state and Federal partners to ensure compliance with fishery regulations. Please also be assured that NOAA Fisheries Service will base any future decisions on striped bass management on the best available science. Again, thank you for your concerns and I look forward to working with you in sustaining America’s living marine resources.

Sincerely,

Eric C. Schwaab
Assistant Administrator for Fisheries

[DarkSkies]

Many, including me, have questioned if we really can have an impact on Fisheries Management policy.
We respond to the requests for e-mails.
We contact our Senators, and Reps, and receive polite e-mails telling us they are aware of our concerns....

But how do our opinions really get to affect policy?
Or do they affect it at all?

Here's a chance for you folks out there to get involved, without spending the gas or toll money. These webinars are growing in popularity as travelling gets more tenuous and expensive. Sent in by Finchaser, thanks!



****************
Ask Questions! Express Your Concerns! Let Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council (MAFMC) leadership and National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) representatives know what you think!

What: Public Listening Session

Who: Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council

When: Wednesday April 13, 2011 - 5:00 pm to 6:00 pm

Where: Annapolis, MD & online at GoToMeeting.com (http://gotomeeting.com/)

The MAFMC welcomes your input during a public question & answer session from 5pm to 6pm on Wednesday April 13, 2011 in Annapolis, MD. The session will be in the evening and is designed to allow stakeholders an opportunity outside of the normal Council agenda to ask questions or express concerns regarding Council management issues. Topics you may want to discuss include:

Ecosystem Management
Bycatch Reduction
Catch Shares
Recent Assessment Results
Recreational Data Collection
Research Set-Aside Program
Allocation Issues
Coastal and Marine Spatial Planning
Annual Catch Limits
...and anything else on your mind!


Questions will be taken as time allows from both those attending in person and via webinar.

For online webinar access register at: https://www1.gotomeeting.com/register/963693944 (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=hclmspcab&et=1105093069534&s=10015&e=001JUd1hKldFp_5DNY309VvZreqaSeMNWIdGXHOecsg5j9Zl Ut-yx9jdmFaOMzM6cbzCbFGI28HayXQvi6svVpxXEd6dQG8jNt878 UOR0MF1hifjWGVOdjacNybfSRf0Ze6jFpTDwUPKYTznE3VkFYx Eg==) - once registered you will receive an email confirming your registration with the information you need to join the webinar.

For those interested in attending this public comment session in person, directions are available at www.historicinnsofannapolis.com/html/annapolis-hotel.asp (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=hclmspcab&et=1105093069534&s=10015&e=001JUd1hKldFp96PlZKdIPQoYwJatxNDmp4JqerWYhSZtuua ZfA3UtbDiAawn1X0Gereao1t4QZe4JDYCb69oyTk08MLBqrRDL IAzrSL9RIfZEJK-K4OIkzVw64M26oIDSeq_4WEDkoPcd-zADUmD6p5nS52RsnLfZ-fPPzFJiusMw=). The session will be in the Governor Calvert House (410-263-2641).

Contact Jason Didden at jdidden@mafmc.org or 302-526-5254 if you have any other questions or if you would like to confirm your ability to access the session via webinar

[storminsteve]

Thanks Dark, I just registered for that, hope it will be interesting.

[fisherofmen]

Sorry monty...I dont see any recreational fishermen selling stripers to market

[Monty]

Sorry monty...I dont see any recreational fishermen selling stripers to market

I feel that recreational fisherman kill to many bass.
Whether for the table, pumping their chests, to win tournaments or to sell.
The limits are way to generous.
Guys like johnny bucktails, the charter boats, party boats, were killing 3 bass per person. This would happen if they found a concentration of bass, they would go and try to wipe it out.
The new group "1 @ 32"" is a great start, but clowns like johnny bucktails or rip316 would never join that 1 @ 32 group, because they don't care about anything but killing their share of breeder size bass. And their share is what the limits are set on, and the people who set the limits are corrupt and really don't care that the Striped Bass population is in trouble.

The book CAUGHT by Jeff Nichols, goes into a bit of detail on the recreational sale of Striped Bass.
Seems to happen in the New York area.

Those be my thoughts.
Welcome aboard :HappyWave:

[hookset]

Sorry monty...I dont see any recreational fishermen selling stripers to market

Sorry but I dont agree with that. In Ma and LI a lot of recreationals sell their bass. I read part of that book caught and it talks about it. In NJ there are plenty of chinese restaurants and fish markets that will buy your bass. One time we went to a chinese restaurant in sea bright. The guy cooked a bass we caught. Then later he came by and said if we bring him more he would give us free meals. So he may not have exactly bought from us but he was actively looking to barter for bass.

[ledhead36]

Sorry monty...I dont see any recreational fishermen selling stripers to market

X2 have to ask if you live in maryland did you know a lot of the poaching goes on there. Never once did you see or hear of anyone selling? If you drive down rt 1/9, or rt22 in New Jersey or go over to Chinatown in NY you can find striped bass for sale. Mostly the asian produce and fish markets. I seen bass for sale in there.

[buckethead]

Good read by Charles Witek. Basically he says that even the best groups can get sidetracked as they get larger. He still suggests fining a grassroots group that appeals to you, and getting involved.
https://oneanglersvoyage.blogspot.com/2018/01/of-movements-businesses-rackets-and-fish.html

[xladyfaust]

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