Let's talk about the Atlantic Striped Bass Moratorium

[DarkSkies]

It happened so long ago that many anglers today didn't fish during the time before and leading up to it.

Let me be the first one to stand up and say I didn't fish through it.
I was too busy chasing girls, Sex and Drugs n Rock n Roll..... :)

People sometimes come to me looking for answers. While my thirst for fishing knowledge is insatiable :drool: my experience is nowhere near that of guys who have fished the salt for 50 or 60 years and seen the wide range of fishing that we once had.






I asked myself....

1. How is it fair to for us to expect a guy who has only been fishing for 5 or 10 years to understand what it was like? :huh:

2. How can something that happened so long ago have a bearing on our experiences today?

3. Isn't the striped bass population recovered?

4. If so, why should any of this ancient history crap be shoved down the throats of younger anglers who had nothing to do with the abuses of the past? :kooky:

[DarkSkies]

It was in thinking about this that I developed the idea for this thread. It's nothing that hasn't been discussed before.

I could summarize it all in the following thoughts...

Bass were overfished trending in the late 1970's until the early 1980's. Anglers, Recreational, and Commercial, may have had some inkling about it. Some even spoke out about it as a warning to others. Most people paid little attention to these "Chicken Littles" :kooky:

Marine fisheries management back then wasn't nearly as advanced.

There was a dis-joint between the actual catches and the catches estimated by Marine Scientists.

Fisheries management, being behind the curve, failed to notice the dwindling of a few year classes that were critical to a sustainable striped bass population.

As a result that population almost crashed.

Drastic measures were needed.

A Moratorium was drafted.

Several Atlantic states, but not all, agreed to adopt the Moratorium (Back then it WAS voluntary, people. AND there were actual fishermen representatives on the boards of many fisheries management committees. Imagine that. :eek:)

A Moratorium was put in place, stocks recovered, everyone was happy, back to the party at the Pub, right? :plastered:

The Striped Bass recovery was hailed as the biggest success story in the history of fisheries management. :clapping::clapping::clapping:


So why not end it there?

[DarkSkies]

I spend a lot of time watching the results of people arguing their positions, either on the internet, meeting rooms, Assembly meetings, rallys for fishermen, etc.

I've seen a lot of people committed to their causes. That's because they have something to protect, a vested interest, if you will.

I don't mean that disrespectfully. What I would like people to understand is that the ones you find most heavily involved in a protest are those who have something to lose or gain if things don't go their way. That's human nature. We can't change that.

What I do find among fishermen is that we are a tough group to convince of the position of another if it doesn't seem to affect us.

That's human nature as well. Think back to a time when people protested about a prison, psychiatric institute, or garbage dump proposed for a certain area.

The protestors who were most vocal would be the ones who lived across the street from it, right? :D

Naturally. :rolleyes:

Same thing in fishing.

It's been a gradual process for me to learn that people remain unconvinced of a program or platform until you can persuade them how it affects their lives. :learn:

That's why politicians are so effective at getting votes during bad economic times. People are hurting, or struggling. Politicians throw them a lifeline, and many empty promises they'll never be able to deliver on. Works every time, Politics 101.

So it's been my experience that people MIGHT be inclined to change their views, but today's generation wants concrete proof before them every time before they're willing to support a cause or issue. Many remain skeptical.

As JimmyZ says, it is what it is. :HappyWave:

[DarkSkies]

As I explained in many other threads, my opinions aren't really important in the end. Everyone has a different take on things. My main goal is to raise awareness on these issues so people can see a different perspective.

The meetings and protests I go to have allowed me to learn that I must turn every one into a learning experience. I've been fortunate to meet people from many walks of life in my travels.

I've met commercial fishermen who tell me stories of being forced to dump thousands of pounds of dead fish, because they weren't permitted to keep them.

I've met recreational fishermen who are blazing with energy in trying to get people to see what they see.

I've also met fishermen on both sides who are concerned with no more than the :clapping::clapping: and $$$ from catching the next big bass. Nothing else matters to them. They feel the striped bass stocks are in danger but disavow any personal responsibility for it. So they might as well keep quiet about it.

It's always the fault of the other guy. :rolleyes:

[DarkSkies]

I can't do this alone guys and girls. I tend to get too involved in these things as it is. I'm asking you to share your experiences with us (Again):kooky: if you did fish through the Moratorium.

What was it like leading up to it?

How did you know that things were in trouble?

Tell us about the slow road to recovery.

Tell us about any parallels you see to then, and now.




If you're too young to be able to answer any of these questions, please help us help others see things differently by posting any references or stories related to how things were back then. As always, please cite your sources if referencing copyrighted material.

Thanks for the help, guys and girls. :HappyWave:


Just remember, all opinions welcome here. Please make any discussions respectful so I don't have to waste time editing.

[finchaser]

Last time it was more do to the commercial guys,this time it's being done at a much faster pace and primarily by the recreational fisherman.:(

Things that are different this time around.

1)Back then we didn't have the number of people fishing for bass mostly caused by restrictions on other fish kinda like fluke fisherman gone wild
2) The explosion of bunker creating the bunker snagging so call bass fisherman who can't catch bass with out live bunker. They are demolishing the breeding stock. Here and north in the Spring and Virginia in winter months
3) The illegals who keep everything they catch no matter what size and no one does a thing about it,even when the authorities are called in.
4) In NJ the bonus tag that started as a trophy tag and is now a way to keep 3 fish most of the time going unchecked. most true bass fisherman don't apply for them.
5 in general people have no understanding how long it takes a bass to reach 20,30,40,50 pounds.
6) The YOY index is way down fewer and fewer small fish in the fall
7) Next to no resident fish in winter and spring
8) 2007 and 2008 reported lower catches
9) Same signs as last time only this time.
10) Even worse this time most NMFS and NOAA jobs are government appointed jobs to people who don't have a clue.
11) Last months meeting in Galloway they admitted something needs to be done but it could take 2to 3 years.

[cowherder]

If so, why should any of this ancient history crap be shoved down the throats of younger anglers who had nothing to do with the abuses of the past? :kooky:


Last time it was more do to the commercial guys,this time it's being done at a much faster pace and primarily by the recreational fisherman.:(

Things that are different this time around.

1)Back then we didn't have the number of people fishing for bass mostly caused by restrictions on other fish kinda like fluke fisherman gone wild
2) The explosion of bunker creating the bunker snagging so call bass fisherman who can't catch bass with out live bunker. They are demolishing the breeding stock. Here and north in the Spring and Virginia in winter months
3) The illegals who keep everything they catch no matter what size and no one does a thing about it,even when the authorities are called in.
4) In NJ the bonus tag that started as a trophy tag and is now a way to keep 3 fish most of the time going unchecked. most true bass fisherman don't apply for them.
5 in general people have no understanding how long it takes a bass to reach 20,30,40,50 pounds.
6) The YOY index is way down fewer and fewer small fish in the fall
7) Next to no resident fish in winter and spring
8) 2007 and 2008 reported lower catches
9) Same signs as last time only this time.
10) Even worse this time most NMFS and NOAA jobs are government appointed jobs to people who don't have a clue.
11) Last months meeting in Galloway they admitted something needs to be done but it could take 2to 3 years.

Dark good deal for going the extra mile to explain this. I wasn't old enough to go fishing by myself 25 years ago so the things you are talking about would never have been part of my life.

Finchaser, thanks for the bullet points. I wanted to ask you about #7. It's probably a stupid question, but how would I tell the difference between a resident fish and another fish?

[buckethead]

I wonder what the percentage of salt water fishermen there were back then compared to now?
A lot of information here. Thanks for posting it.

[albiealert]

http://www.nefsc.noaa.gov/sos/spsyn/af/sbass/

Google is an amazing resource. I went there and found this article. Only thing is that in one place it says the stocks were going down in 2004.

"Spawning stock biomass of age 4 and older striped bass increased from about 1,300 mt in 1982 to 27,500 mt in 2002, but has since declined to 24,900 mt in 2004 (Figure 40.5 (http://www.nefsc.noaa.gov/sos/spsyn/af/sbass/images/fig40_5.gif) [Fig 40.5 Data] (http://www.nefsc.noaa.gov/sos/spsyn/af/sbass/csv_files/striped_bass_40_5_ssb_trends.csv)). Overall, population numbers increased from 4.8 million fish in 1982 to 60.1 million fish in 1997 and have since fluctuated between 53.9 million and 66.6 million fish."


Then at the end of the article they are talking about how they are concerned there are too many fish? All I know is I would never want to do this research for a living, too many double meanings. :huh:


"Assessment results indicate that the stocks of striped bass on the Atlantic coast are attaining their production potential and are generally being fished at or below their target fishing mortality. Concern expressed in public and scientific communities that the abundance of striped bass in Chesapeake Bay now exceeds the carrying capacity of this system. Continued work will be required to fully determine the optimal abundance of striped bass in the Bay. "

[finchaser]

Dark good deal for going the extra mile to explain this. I wasn't old enough to go fishing by myself 25 years ago so the things you are talking about would never have been part of my life.

Finchaser, thanks for the bullet points. I wanted to ask you about #7. It's probably a stupid question, but how would I tell the difference between a resident fish and another fish?


I wonder what the percentage of salt water fishermen there were back then compared to now?



Neither was Dark old enough;)to remember it all.

No question is stupid most guy's have no idea

A resident fish is a fish that travels the Parkway (only stupid answer s). No really a resident fish is a bass that has that washed beige looking color never has sea lice. They are here year round and are the only bass you catch mostly around jetties after the fall run is over, I 've caught them into February many years but not in the last 3.

Migrating fish have vibrant bluish green stripes and usually display sea lice. They arrive here around April and leave sometime in mid December in years having a normal winter like this year.

Back in the 60's I'd say 60 to70% less bass fisherman.
70's and early 80's I'd say 50% less bass fisherman
Early 90's things statred getting ugly
2000 really got ugly and the kiiling today is out of control

Remember it takes 20 years for a 50# fish to achieve that weight longer than many of you have fished. The replenishing stocks are dwindling, at the present rate most people will never see these big fish again without new regulations. If it went back to 1 fish at 36" I'd say 40% of the so called bass fisherman would disappear.

As for me it's been over 50 years of pursuing bass and I'll fish for and protect these magnificent fish until the day I die.

Hope that answers your questions

[finchaser]

http://www.nefsc.noaa.gov/sos/spsyn/af/sbass/

Google is an amazing resource. I went there and found this article. Only thing is that in one place it says the stocks were going down in 2004.

. :huh:

"Concern expressed in public and scientific communities that the abundance of striped bass in Chesapeake Bay now exceeds the carrying capacity of this system. Continued work will be required to fully determine the optimal abundance of striped bass in the Bay. "

That was started by the commercial bay fisherman
The crab guy's over fished crabs and blamed it on the bass which are mostly out of the bay in the summer. The commercial bass guys rose to the occasion by by offering to eliminate the problem if they raised there quota on bass it was knocked down.I have a few Friends who fight the bass battle down there. Other searches show that in 2006 to 2008 catches were reported down by many groups supporting the 2004 findings mentioned above.

Also many of these fish now winter off of Virginia not the Chesepeake in recent years

[DarkSkies]

Last time it was more do to the commercial guys,this time it's being done at a much faster pace and primarily by the recreational fisherman.:(

Things that are different this time around.

1)Back then we didn't have the number of people fishing for bass mostly caused by restrictions on other fish kinda like fluke fisherman gone wild
2) The explosion of bunker creating the bunker snagging so call bass fisherman who can't catch bass with out live bunker. They are demolishing the breeding stock. Here and north in the Spring and Virginia in winter months
3) The illegals who keep everything they catch no matter what size and no one does a thing about it,even when the authorities are called in.
4) In NJ the bonus tag that started as a trophy tag and is now a way to keep 3 fish most of the time going unchecked. most true bass fisherman don't apply for them.
5 in general people have no understanding how long it takes a bass to reach 20,30,40,50 pounds.
6) The YOY index is way down fewer and fewer small fish in the fall
7) Next to no resident fish in winter and spring
8) 2007 and 2008 reported lower catches
9) Same signs as last time only this time.
10) Even worse this time most NMFS and NOAA jobs are government appointed jobs to people who don't have a clue.
11) Last months meeting in Galloway they admitted something needs to be done but it could take 2to 3 years.


Finchaser's Ezy follow outline, 101. :HappyWave:I don't think there's a school out there that could teach you the wisdom contained in that post. :thumbsup::thumbsup: Thanks.


The Act and official language -



Atlantic Striped Bass Conservation Act




Atlantic Striped Bass Conservation Act -- P.L. 98-613, approved October 31, 1984, (98 Stat. 3187, 16 U.S.C. 1851) recognized the commercial and recreational importance, as well as the inter-jurisdictional nature of striped bass, and established a unique State-based, Federally backed management scheme.

The original Act required the Secretary of Commerce to impose a moratorium on fishing for striped bass in any state that, according to the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (ASMFC), with confirmation by the Secretary, is not in compliance with the Commission's Plan for Striped Bass. Secretaries of Commerce and Interior were to review the ASMFC Plan and make recommendation to the House and Senate Committees and the Commission by March 31, 1985.

ATLANTIC STRIPED BASS CONSERVATION ACT
16 U.S.C. - 1851 note, October 31, 1984, as amended 1986, 1988, 1991 and 1993.

Overview. This Act recognizes the commercial and recreational importance of Atlantic striped bass and establishes a consistent management scheme for its conservation.
Coastal states that fail to adhere to the required management plan are subject to a striped bass fishing moratorium enforced by the federal government.

The Act also requires an annual survey of striped bass fisheries in the coastal states. Findings / Policy.
Congress found: Atlantic striped bass have historic importance and economic benefit to the Atlantic coastal states and the nation; certain stocks of Atlantic striped bass are severely reduced in number due to increased fishing pressure, pollution, loss and alteration of habitat, and inadequate fishery conservation practices; because no single governmental entity has full management authority for the fish, state regulation has been inconsistent and intermittent, resulting in harm to their long-term maintenance; effective inter-jurisdictional species conservation and management is in the national interest. The purpose of the Act is to support and encourage the development, implementation and enforcement of effective interstate conservation and management of the Atlantic striped bass. - 1851 note ( 2).

Selected Definitions. Coastal States:
Pennsylvania; states bordering the Atlantic north of South Carolina; District of Columbia; Potomac River Fisheries Commission. Commission: Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission. Plan: Interstate Fisheries Management Plan for Striped Bass prepared by the Commission, dated October 1, 1981 and all amendments related to striped bass fishing. Secretaries: Secretary of Commerce and Secretary of the Interior. - 1851 note (3).

Plan Compliance and Moratorium. The Commission must determine at least annually whether each coastal state has adopted all regulatory measures necessary to implement the Plan, and whether each coastal state's enforcement of the Plan is satisfactory. The Commission must notify the Secretaries of any negative determination. If the Secretaries jointly determine that a coastal state is not in compliance with the Plan, they must declare a moratorium on fishing for Atlantic striped bass within the coastal waters of that state.

During a moratorium, it is unlawful to:
catch, take or harvest Atlantic striped bass,
or attempt to do so, within the restricted area;
land or attempt to land Atlantic striped bass taken in violation of the moratorium;
land lawfully harvested Atlantic striped bass within the boundaries of a coastal state under moratorium;
fail to return to the water Atlantic striped bass to which the moratorium applies that are caught incidental to commercial or recreational harvesting.

Violation of these prohibitions is subject to civil penalty imposed by the Secretaries. Vessels used in violation, along with fish taken, are subject to forfeiture to the federal government.

The Secretaries are responsible for enforcing moratoriums declared under this Act. By agreement, to enforce the Act the Secretaries may use personnel and facilities of federal agencies and coastal state agencies, and enforcement authorities provided in the Magnuson Fishery Conservation and Management Act. - 1851 note (4 and 5).

Annual Survey. The Secretaries must conduct a comprehensive annual survey of the Atlantic striped bass fisheries. The survey, to be published in the Federal Register, must include a compilation and assessment of the recreational and commercial landings of the species in the coastal states. - 1851 note (6).

Appropriations Authorized. Congress authorized appropriations necessary to carry out the Act for fiscal years 1986-1994. The Secretaries may use appropriated funds to support financially the Commission's functions under this Act. - 1851 note (7).

[DarkSkies]

I thought some folks might want to see some commentary about the 1986 Md/Va Moratorium, as compared to the different ones from 1982 onward... so they could draw their own conclusions, bringing this to the top again.





---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------__________________________________________________ ______________________________




The original act authorized appropriations as necessary for 18 months, and required the Commission to monitor State enforcement of the Plan and report to the Secretaries of the Interior and Commerce biennially. It provided for penalties and forfeitures for violations of any moratorium, and provided that the Act would be effective through March 31, 1986.

Finally, it authorized the appropriation of $200,000 for each of FY 1986 and 1987 to be apportioned equally to the States of Maryland and Virginia for propagation of Chesapeake Bay striped bass.

Public Law 99-432, approved October 1, 1986 (100 Stat. 990) amended the Act to provide that the Secretary of the Interior and the Secretary of Commerce must jointly make the determination necessary to impose a moratorium, and it required the Commission to make annual determinations of compliance and enforcement beginning in December 1987.


It also amended the definition of "coastal waters" to include the waters of the District of Columbia and waters under the jurisdiction of the Potomac River Fisheries Commission, amended the definition of "coastal state" to include the District of Columbia and the Potomac River Fisheries Commission, extended the authorization of appropriations through FY 1988, and extended the effective period of the Act through September 30, 1988.

Public Law 100-589 (102 Stat. 2984), approved November 3, 1988, extended the authorization of appropriations through FY 1991, and extended the effective period of the Act through September 30, 1991.

It also provided that the Commission may make a determination of non-compliance at any time; required a study and report by November 3, 1991, on Albemarle Sound-Roanoke River (NC) stocks of striped bass;

and required the Secretary of Commerce to regulate fishing for striped bass in the Exclusive Economic Zone.

Public Law 102-130 (105 Stat. 626), approved October 17, 1991, extended the authorization of appropriations through fiscal year 1994 and extended the effective period of the operative provisions through September 30, 1994.

It amended the Act to allow the Secretaries to enter into cooperative agreements with the ASMFC for the purpose of providing financial assistance to the ASMFC for carrying out its functions under this Act. It deleted the requirement that the Regional Fishery Management Councils prepare an Atlantic striped bass fishery management plan, deleted the Act's sunset provision regarding the regulation of fishing in Federal waters, and added clarification of enforcement authority.
This Act also amended the striped bass study contained in the Anadromous Fish Conservation Act. (See that entry.) Public Law 104-208 (110 Stat. 3009), approved September 30, 1996, directed the Secretary of Commerce to regulate fishing for Atlantic Striped bass in the exclusive economic zone.

Public Law 105-146 (111 Stat. 2672), approved December 16, 1997, includes language which directs the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission to determine if states have adopted adequate regulatory measures to implement the management plan for striped bass, and whether state enforcement of the plan is satisfactory. The Commission is to notify the Secretary of Commerce immediately of any negative determination. The legislation provides the Secretaries of Commerce and Interior the option of imposing a moratorium on fishing for striped bass in those states which do not comply with the Act.

The 1997 amendments direct that studies of striped bass populations, including stock assessments and socio-economic studies, continue, but repeals Albemarle Sound-Roanoke River Study in North Carolina. Also, the amendments authorize appropriations through the year 2000. Finally, the Act establishes new requirements for regulation of striped bass protection in the exclusive economic zone, repealing P.L. 104-208

[DarkSkies]

Some light summer reading in case anyone has an interest. ;) :HappyWave: