Pledge of Allegiance - Oath or religion?

[Pebbles]

Pledge of Allegiance is an oath of loyalty to our country.

Since it was first composed in 1892 it has been changed 4 times. The phrase "under God" was added in 1954.

We should be teaching our children about the great nation we live in and how we should be making a pledge. Those two words "under God" has taken the original meaning and twisted it around make it more about religion.

Are we as a society making it more about religion rather than an oath to a country in which we live?

[Frankiesurf]

Absolutely. While the majority of people are religious there are many out there that are not.

This and the "In God We Trust" motto on our currency is basically a slap in the face to those who choose not to have faith in some "supreme being". It is actually violating the first amendment in so much as "congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion".

While that is very vague, as most laws are, in that it does not specify any established religious sect it is establishing that, in fact, the government is recognizing that there is " some type" of deity watching over us that we should put our faith into.

I for one do not believe this to be true. I can't believe that it is actually in the law books about saying the pledge , with that line included and also it is law that "in god we trust" is actually on our currency.

That said, that is as far as I am treading in this water because any arguments on this subject will result in absolutely nothing. You all believe what you want and I will too. Better left at that.

These are different times then when both of these laws were passed. "in god we trust" was put into effect during the Civil War and the Pledge was just after the Korean War. They are more like eons away from the national and social mindsets than they are mere decades in the past.

I refuse to argue about this but just an example of how our government representatives are acting on their religious beliefs is abortion and stem cell research. There are moral consequences to be dealt with in regards to these two subjects. Throw religion out of it and human beings as a whole will benefit.

I have said enough. I did state the two subjects that I will not respond to. I know it will probably tick someone off but that is that. I will discuss the rest of though.

[DarkSkies]

but just an example of how our government representatives are acting on their religious beliefs is abortion and stem cell research. .

I have said enough.

Are you sure? :argue: ;)
So, um, Frankie, how do ya feel about abortion and stem cell research? Inquiring minds wanna know? :HappyWave:

[Frankiesurf]

Wiseas$:2flip:

[DarkSkies]

:moon: :d

Ya didn't take the bait, I'm impressed.
What happened to the old Frankiesurf? :don't know why:

[Frankiesurf]

Rich, we would be arguing for days and then I would probably track you down and throw snowballs at your nuts until you ceded.

[DarkSkies]

Knowing you, you would win by putting rocks in the snowballs. :laugh:

I'm not looking to argue, just seeing if YOU were. ;) :HappyWave:

Touche for not taking the bait. :thumbsup:

[Pebbles]

At what point in time did we as christians become so distant from God or even our belief of a greater being?

As mentioned Frankie, During the civil war there was a huge amount of faith in God. As stated in the letters below why would anyone object to In God We Trust being added. They probably would have been shunned if they had gone against it.

Just a quick question though, What do you think will happen if you die and find out there is a God after all?



History of 'In God We Trust'

The motto IN GOD WE TRUST was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout persons throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize the Deity on United States coins. From Treasury Department records, it appears that the first such appeal came in a letter dated November 13, 1861. It was written to Secretary Chase by Rev. M. R. Watkinson, Minister of the Gospel from Ridleyville, Pennsylvania, and read:

Dear Sir: You are about to submit your annual report to the Congress respecting the affairs of the national finances. One fact touching our currency has hitherto been seriously overlooked. I mean the recognition of the Almighty God in some form on our coins.
You are probably a Christian. What if our Republic were not shattered beyond reconstruction? Would not the antiquaries of succeeding centuries rightly reason from our past that we were a heathen nation? What I propose is that instead of the goddess of liberty we shall have next inside the 13 stars a ring inscribed with the words PERPETUAL UNION; within the ring the allseeing eye, crowned with a halo; beneath this eye the American flag, bearing in its field stars equal to the number of the States united; in the folds of the bars the words GOD, LIBERTY, LAW.

This would make a beautiful coin, to which no possible citizen could object. This would relieve us from the ignominy of heathenism. This would place us openly under the Divine protection we have personally claimed. From my hearth I have felt our national shame in disowning God as not the least of our present national disasters.
To you first I address a subject that must be agitated.
As a result, Secretary Chase instructed James Pollock, Director of the Mint at Philadelphia, to prepare a motto, in a letter dated November 20, 1861:

Dear Sir: No nation can be strong except in the strength of God, or safe except in His defense. The trust of our people in God should be declared on our national coins. You will cause a device to be prepared without unnecessary delay with a motto expressing in the fewest and tersest words possible this national recognition.
It was found that the Act of Congress dated January 18, 1837, prescribed the mottoes and devices that should be placed upon the coins of the United States. This meant that the mint could make no changes without the enactment of additional legislation by the Congress. In December 1863, the Director of the Mint submitted designs for new one-cent coin, two-cent coin, and three-cent coin to Secretary Chase for approval. He proposed that upon the designs either OUR COUNTRY; OUR GOD or GOD, OUR TRUST should appear as a motto on the coins. In a letter to the Mint Director on December 9, 1863, Secretary Chase stated:

I approve your mottoes, only suggesting that on that with the Washington obverse the motto should begin with the word OUR, so as to read OUR GOD AND OUR COUNTRY. And on that with the shield, it should be changed so as to read: IN GOD WE TRUST.
The Congress passed the Act of April 22, 1864. This legislation changed the composition of the one-cent coin and authorized the minting of the two-cent coin. The Mint Director was directed to develop the designs for these coins for final approval of the Secretary. IN GOD WE TRUST first appeared on the 1864 two-cent coin.

Another Act of Congress passed on March 3, 1865. It allowed the Mint Director, with the Secretary's approval, to place the motto on all gold and silver coins that "shall admit the inscription thereon." Under the Act, the motto was placed on the gold double-eagle coin, the gold eagle coin, and the gold half-eagle coin. It was also placed on the silver dollar coin, the half-dollar coin and the quarter-dollar coin, and on the nickel three-cent coin beginning in 1866. Later, Congress passed the Coinage Act of February 12, 1873. It also said that the Secretary "may cause the motto IN GOD WE TRUST to be inscribed on such coins as shall admit of such motto."
The use of IN GOD WE TRUST has not been uninterrupted. The motto disappeared from the five-cent coin in 1883, and did not reappear until production of the Jefferson nickel began in 1938. Since 1938, all United States coins bear the inscription. Later, the motto was found missing from the new design of the double-eagle gold coin and the eagle gold coin shortly after they appeared in 1907. In response to a general demand, Congress ordered it restored, and the Act of May 18, 1908, made it mandatory on all coins upon which it had previously appeared. IN GOD WE TRUST was not mandatory on the one-cent coin and five-cent coin. It could be placed on them by the Secretary or the Mint Director with the Secretary's approval.

The motto has been in continuous use on the one-cent coin since 1909, and on the ten-cent coin since 1916. It also has appeared on all gold coins and silver dollar coins, half-dollar coins, and quarter-dollar coins struck since July 1, 1908.
A law passed by the 84th Congress (P.L. 84-140) and approved by the President on July 30, 1956, the President approved a Joint Resolution of the 84th Congress, declaring IN GOD WE TRUST the national motto of the United States. IN GOD WE TRUST was first used on paper money in 1957, when it appeared on the one-dollar silver certificate. The first paper currency bearing the motto entered circulation on October 1, 1957. The Bureau of Engraving and Printing (http://www.ustreas.gov/education/duties/bureaus/engraving-printing.shtml) (BEP) was converting to the dry intaglio printing process. During this conversion, it gradually included IN GOD WE TRUST in the back design of all classes and denominations of currency.

As a part of a comprehensive modernization program the BEP successfully developed and installed new high-speed rotary intaglio printing presses in 1957. These allowed BEP to print currency by the dry intaglio process, 32 notes to the sheet. One-dollar silver certificates were the first denomination printed on the new high-speed presses. They included IN GOD WE TRUST as part of the reverse design as BEP adopted new dies according to the law. The motto also appeared on one-dollar silver certificates of the 1957-A and 1957-B series.
BEP prints United States paper currency by an intaglio process from engraved plates. It was necessary, therefore, to engrave the motto into the printing plates as a part of the basic engraved design to give it the prominence it deserved.
One-dollar silver certificates series 1935, 1935-A, 1935-B, 1935-C, 1935-D, 1935-E, 1935-F, 1935-G, and 1935-H were all printed on the older flat-bed presses by the wet intaglio process. P.L. 84-140 recognized that an enormous expense would be associated with immediately replacing the costly printing plates. The law allowed BEP to gradually convert to the inclusion of IN GOD WE TRUST on the currency. Accordingly, the motto is not found on series 1935-E and 1935-F one-dollar notes. By September 1961, IN GOD WE TRUST had been added to the back design of the Series 1935-G notes. Some early printings of this series do not bear the motto. IN GOD WE TRUST appears on all series 1935-H one-dollar silver certificates.

[Frankiesurf]

At what point in time did we as christians become so distant from God or even our belief of a greater being?



Just a quick question though, What do you think will happen if you die and find out there is a God after all?



For your first question. I believe it was science, overpopulation and mostly free thinking. There is also less possibility now of being shunned as a heathen or hung as a witch.

Second question.

Go with the flow and just like in life, see what I can get away with.:D If there does happen to be a god then I am not sure I would be meeting him anyway. :devil:

[baitstealer]

I always thought Hell is life without God. Not a place with burning fire and devils.

I see no reason not to put "In God We Trust" If we started to put it more all over the place than maybe people will start thinking more about God and bad morals will begin to change.

[Frankiesurf]

Putting gods name on everything will not change people. It will get them annoyed. I am annoyed at the place "god" has in todays society. Keep it behind closed doors where it belongs. It is supposed to be a personal thing and not something I want forced on me. If I wanted "god" forced on me, I would go see a catholic priest.