My personal views on Healthcare

[surfstix1963]

Have a little humor:d but you better take this seriously because we are in for a :beatin:Oh and yes if you haven't figured it out I can't stand our president thats my choice if you don't like like it just click the back button and it will go away.Bumper stickers provided by U.S. Citizens

[Pebbles]

Since you are making a post on health care. Lets discuss the pro's and the con's.

I'll start

One pro is no pre-existing conditions can be used to deny health coverage. :clapping:

[surfstix1963]

Thats what they are telling everyone w a healthcare reform numbering over 200 pages every pro that is found will be a con hidden on another page congress don't even understand it thats why it is such a problem to long and too many hidden details.Everyone is entitled to their opinion I don't trust the current gov't period I am not a believer in socialism thats where this is headed. You only hear what they want you to. Just my .02 cents

[7deadlyplugs]

At least he brought health care to the attention of congress. It may not be perfect but they can work on it to make it better.

[surfstix1963]

I guess we will see if it was shortened,simplified and clear as day I wouldn't have a problem w/it nor would Congress when something in that length is brought up and Congress doesn't understand it and your president wants to just cram it down your throat as quick as possible theres a lot of things hiding in their that you won't see until you have it in your lap and if your naive enough to think this is only benefiting the US citizens thats not how gov't works. The Gov't is not going to use it how come? This is like putting the US on social services and we all know who pays for that.

[VSdreams]

When Bush left office the Dow was down to a little over 8,000 and major companies were failing. The sad reality of it is that if these companies closed, thousands of people would have lost there jobs and the unemployment rate would be through the roof.

I don't agree with how it went down to bail them out but something had to be done. Obama has his faults as all presidents do. No one will ever be completely happy no matter who is in office. We need to remember that he stepped into this situation. The problems were already here when he arrived. The bailouts had already begun with Bush and his plan of millions of dollars.

[captnemo]

http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=10211&stc=1&d=1267530420

Cmon now a plan where you are paying for all the people in the US will never work. How many more billions do you think we can print before the house of cards collapses?

Great bumper sticker collection surfstix. The one above shows the inequities. As long as Obama tries to sell socialized medicine to all us peasants and he and the rest of Congress have medical care that only kings and exalted rulers could afford (if they had to pay for it) there will never be equality in this country.

Obama campaigned for "change is coming". The only change I see is the change in my pocket. You cannot have a system of equality if there is a "special" elite group at the top that is "more equal" than the classes of people they represent. I won't buy into this, and I never will. It's time for our citizens to stand up and take back the insane perks deemed necessary by Congress. It's criminal the amount of money they are siphoning from our future, and they view most of the American public as sheep.

[skinner]

How many more billions do you think we can print before the house of cards collapses?



We have lots of trees.:d

[surfstix1963]

The unfortunate part is when all the ins. co. go out of business we get to support thousands of them when they go to collect unemployment.Not that I'm a fan of ins. co. they need to be regulated period.This country is broke just how long do you think this plan will last being supported by the govt. as soon as it fails guess whos paying and my bet is it will fall on its butt within a yr.

[surfstix1963]

Pg 29 lines 4-16:Your HC is rationed

Pg 42:The health choices commissioner will choose your HC benefits for you.(You have no choice)

Pg. 50 Section 152:Healthcare will be provided to all non-US citizens or otherwise.(Oh I just love that one wait till pg.170 and you will see why:burn:)

Pg.58 Gov't will have REAL-TIME ACCESS to individuals finances & a national ID health card will be issued.

Pg.59 Lines 21-24 Govt. will have DIRECT ACCESS to your bank acct. for elective funds transfers(:2flip: that)

Pg.84 Section 203: Govt mandates ALL benefit pkgs. for private HC plans in the exchange.

Pg 85:Line 7:Specifications of benefit levels for HC plans(Back to the top your healthcare will be rationed)

Pg 91 lines 4-7:Gov't mandates linguistic appropriate Svces.(Now thats stating it fancy for illegal Imigrants)

Pg 95 lines 8-18:The govt.will use groups to sign you up for HC(What comes to mind here,Obama hmmm! Acorn and Americorps his buddies)

Pg.102 lines 12-18:Medicaid eliable individuals will automatically be enrolled in medicaid(No Choice again)

Pg.124 lines 24-25 NO Company can sue the Govt. on price fixing (Covering their butts)NO judicial review is allowed against govt. MONOPOLY( they know its so crooked they don't want anybody to rule against it)

Pg.126 lines 22-25:Employers must pay HC for part time workers and their families(sounds good but they will layoff due to the expenses incurred more unemployment just great.)

Pg.127 lines 1-16Dr.s/American Medical Association-The Govt. will tell you what salary you can make( don't get too used to your Dr.s because they won't be here you are going to have sub-standard medical regulated by thr Govt.)

Pg.145 lines 15-17:An employer MUST auto enroll employees into the public option(Again NO choice)

Pg.149 lines 16-24:Any employer w/payroll 401K plan who does not provide public option Will pay 8% payroll tax(so you do it or pay if you opt to pay more layoffs are inevitable due to operating costs,more unemployment)

Pg.150 lines 9-13:A business w/ a payroll between $125K-401K who doesn't provide public option Will pay a 2-6% payroll tax(more layoffs does anyone see where this is going)

Pg.167 lines 18-23 Any individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to the govt. will be taxed 2.5% of their income.

Pg.170 lines 1-3:( if you think this is acceptable go live somewhere else)ANY NON-RESIDENT ILLEGAL OR OTHERWISE IS EXEMPT FROM THE INDIVIDUAL TAXES KNOW WHY BECAUSE YOU ARE GOING TO PAY IT FOR THEM.

You know as I read these and theres more to come. I see words repeatedly pop up (You Will)(You Must)and whoever doesn't.In a free country those words should not ever come out of the president or the Congresses mouths.

[surfstix1963]

Pg.195:Officers and Employees of the Govt. HC Administration WILL have access to all Americans finances.

Pg.203 Lines 14-15:The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as a tax(who the hell wrote that)it will be referred to as a fee, a tax is a tax moron)

Pg.239 line 14-24 The Govt. will reduce Dr.s Svces for Medical SENIORS (the ones that need it will be reduced why don't you old people just die attitude:2flip:)I like old people you arrogant bastards)

Pg.241 line 6-8(Doctors)Regardless of your specialty you trained in you will all be paid the same(see how many specialists stick around you may have a veteranarian checking you out)

Pg.253 line 10-18: The govt.sets the value of a Dr.s time,profession and judgement(another words the value of your health means nada)

Pg.265 Section 1131:The Govt. mandates & controls productivity for private HC industry(Monopoloy protection)

Pg.268 Section 1141:The federal Govt. regulates the rental & or purchase of power driven wheelchairs.(the govt should supply them and take care of the handicapped pay for them :2flip: off.

Pg 272 Section 1145:Treatment of Cancer Hospitals:Cancer patients treatments will be rationed by the Govt. and or HC officials.(I can't even type what I want to say to this)

Pg. 280 Section 1151:The Gov't will penalize hospitals for whatever the govt deems preventable.(Better hope they get it right the first time because the hospitals aren't going to pay for readmissions.)

Pg.427 lines 15-24: The Govt mandates a program for ORDERS on end of life.(they want control of how you die talk about unconstitutional)

Pg.429 Lines 10-12: An "Advanced-Care planning consultant" will be used frequently as a patients health worsens.(Dr. Death?)

Pg.429 lines 13-25:The govt. will specify which Dr.s can write an end of life order.

Pg.430 lines 11-15:The Govt. will decide what level of treatment you will receive at the end of life.(Just die you are costing us too much money)

Pg.489 Section1308: the Govt. will cover marriage and family therapy (what sports they are & just what I want the govt in my personal life.)

Pg.494-498:Govt will cover mental health svces. including defining,creating and rationing of those svces.

So probably by tommorrow maybe early next week we will all be blessed w/ this BS passing because Obamas bought just about everyone he needs to pass it. With our money by the way not his oh his comes from us to, just who don't we support except ourselves.

[Pebbles]

It is unbelievable what they are doing. I read an article in the Star Ledger outlining some points. I was completely taken aback by it.

Can you please give me the link to the above? I would like to take the time to read this.

[DarkSkies]

Surfstix, some of the provisions above would crush my business. Our profit margins are already very slim as it is. 18 years strong, and soon to close its doors if we have to shoulder all these extra costs. Unbelievable. :don't know why:

[surfstix1963]

Oh and by the way part of the Kennedy healthcare reform was written into this new HC reform bill:The president and Congress are 100% EXEMPT from the HC reform.

[Pebbles]

I think the problem here is that people need to take the time read it for themselves. People are running scared. This is not to say that I agree with the plan. However one thing I see previously stated was that employers have to offer HC to even part-time employees.

This might be that case but provisions have been put in so that the small business man will not have to close their doors. If a small business makes less than $500,000 they are exempt from this. They also will not have to pay extra payroll tax, such as the 8% or 6% as stated in some of the proposal.

[captnemo]

The nerve of this president, this is a joke. He is placing the cost squarely on the backs of the middle class. Neither he nor Congress will be subject to those rules.

Can anyone here spell "Socialism without representation?"
This puts Obama and the Congress as the bourgeuois elite, ruling over all us peasants. It comes straight from the Marx Engels reader.

If Obama were a true American he would put himself and his family at the same health care level as what he is proposing for all the commoners. What BS.

[surfstix1963]

I really think the govt doesn't want anyone to know until it passes and then the proverbial crap will hit the fan you will then find all the ins and outs and good or bad I still do not support Socialism or any type of dictatorship I think Obamas hero is Hitler and Congress are going to blamed for all of this when it goes bad.

[surfstix1963]

The fish stinks from the head down.

[Monty]

As I watch the pre-vote, here is what I have decided.
I am not and never have been a Republican, I have voted for who I thought would do the best job for this country. I will never vote for a democrat again.
There is some good in this, but it is wrong, it is going about this the wrong way in so many ways it is incomprehensible. It makes me sick, I am frustrated, upset and cannot believe this is happening.
Think this recession was bad so far? The next 5 years will be hell. JMHO, hope I am wrong.

[surfstix1963]

As far as I'm concerned Obama should be impeached for bribery of Congressman to get what he wanted. This is not what the majority of U.S. citizens wanted, how many congressman were against this all the way and a little pressure, pocket money, personal political gains, a plane ride and they all fold real fast.The one thing for sure is these people have all seen the end of their political careers because anyone that votes these people back in are just plain asking for another butt whipping.I really hope the Republicans derail this again and now we have a so called fixes bill can't wait to see that hopefully we can ride this out until we can get rid of this joker president & they got the nuts to be exempt what does that tell you it is no damn good period.:burn::burn::burn::burn::burn::burn::burn:

[surfstix1963]

I'm done this whole thing just makes me want to throw up.I'm gonna focus on fishing plugs the hell w/ this.

[DarkSkies]

they got the nuts to be exempt what does that tell you it is no damn good period.:burn::burn::burn::burn::burn::burn::burn:

The thing that helps me to reconcile my life as a US citizen, Surfstix, is the concept of "equality under the law, and fairness and justice for all".

Whether we are talking about health care or fishing, I can be induced to support some pretty uncomfortable programs if I feel everyone around me has the do the same, or is on the same page about it.

I realize this is just a concept. Life's not fair across the board, some are more equal than others, some people make rules for others to follow and don't follow them themselves. :don't know why:

This is the kind of stuff that destroys the fabric of our nation and national pride. What kind of nation do we live in if the majority of us are treated as 2nd class citizens? :huh:

The fact that there is a separate health plan for the President and Congress tells me that there is a class of people ruling us who consider themselves ultra elite.

They are the exalted rulers, and we are the stupid peasants scrambling for crumbs in the tarnished streets of America.

If they really believed in this Health Care reform, the President and every member of Congress would voluntarily give up their benefits and join the program with us, the peons, as a show of solidarity.

They could well afford to do so. A Congress person's pension is a pathway to lifetime riches and financial security once they retire. Same for Presidents and past Presidents.

IMO 80% of the American public can never hope to achieve anything close to the financial package this elite group gets. This is one of the key things wrong with our political system that needs fixing, the elite rulers eating from the troth created by public dollars and taxes.

I didn't mean to hijack this thread, Surfstix, but every time I think of it, the hypocrisy in our gov't gives me heartburn. :burn:

I don't have any solutions other than public disclosure of the pensions and health benefits this elite group continue to get even in the face of the worst recession in recent history.

Shame on them, but my proclaiming shame, or anyone else's anger, really doesn't matter.

We need concerned citizens to keep exposing this, bringing real numbers and stats to the forefront of public attention.

That may not change things either, but at least it's a start. Thanks for trying, Surfstix. :thumbsup:

[captnemo]

Double standard of gov't vs citizens, welcome to the US.