S&A Education Series: NJ's resident bass, why have they abandoned us?

[DarkSkies]

After an intense effort last night finding to try a pattern to get some decent fish, I finally saw the light. :eek:

There is a pattern....:kooky:
Resident fish are not here in NJ in numbers like they were only a few short years ago.

Think I'm kidding? Do you have a stash of resident bass that you've been happily nailing, night after night, while more experienced anglers come up empty handed? :huh:

Say "yes" to that question, and my answer to you is that there is a very short list of places where guys can consistently put together catches of quality bass night after night, and many of them aren't accessible from the surf/shore by the general public. ;)






I started this thread to once again get some of us into reasonable discussion why there are less bass around. That's the theorem I'll try to prove to you folks out there.

If anyone has a differing opinion, by all means post up. :thumbsup: Please try to back up your opinion with some kind of data or anecdotal example how it applies to you as a surf angler.

Remember, I'm not saying bass aren't thick off our coast in 60' of water.

But the surf anglers could always count on the overflow for many years. For the past 3 years I've seen a severe decline in opportunity and places that hold fish.

Of course, if anyone wants to come out with me on a kayak, I'll show ya where tons of schoolies still gather. :lookhappy: However, my point here is those bass aren't necessarily available to the shore anglers or surfcasters.

I thought we'd have some discussions here, to try to understand why. :learn:

[paco33]

I have been fishing for over 20 years. I hardly ever fish from the surf anymore, because it has been such a decline over that time. The bass seem to be in deeper water eating sandeels and herring.

[dogfish]

NJ stinks, all those factories and smokestacks have pushed waves of cancer all along the shores from the factory discharge. The fish smell this and stay off your shores. My bill will be in the mail, Dark.:HappyWave:

[DarkSkies]

^ Thanks for your helpful thoughts. :kooky: :HappyWave:


************
The surfer and jetty country.... I'll try to bring you more stories like this when I have time, feel free to comment whether you agree or disagree, and why.


I have a friend, who lives in jetty country in Monmouth County. He's a fanatic fisherman, dedicated surfer, and good family man. In between all that, he's found time over the years to devote a lot of his time to fishing access issues, and put political pressure on politicians to pay attention to surfers and fishermen. :clapping:

He's mostly a C&R guy, catching fish for the thrill and the solace it gives him, out there in the middle of the night on the rockpiles.

20 years ago, he had nights on the jetties where he'd C&R up to 1000# of fish. Yes, people, that number is absolutely accurate, 1000 lbs. :lookhappy:
When was the last time you or anyone else you know got into 1000lbs of fishing action from the NJ surf? :wow:

It was a true bonanza, and he was out there every chance he could, having a blast.

He knows those jetties like the back of his hand. Anyone who wanted to learn them would be lucky to have him as a guide. Not only does he know the jetties, he knows the fish behavior and food sources each one holds, as there used to be different feeding cycles during the year.

He can hop those rocks like a billy goat, and as a surfer, he knows when the fish are there because he's frequently swimming among them on his early morning surfing jaunts.

He's mentioned to me that he can't understand why the bass are NOW only in abundance at those jetties for a few short months in the spring and the fall. :huh: Each year that window gets smaller. Meanwhile, the jetties hold seabass, blackfish, porgies, small forage fish, and skates and eels throughout the year. They draw fish because there are clams, crabs, shrimp, mussels, small invertebrates, and every food type you could imagine to make fish happy.

Yet, a decreasing presence of striped bass. :(







Some of the things he said to me yesterday...

"Ya know, it's over...there are no more big fish or numbers of fish for us surf guys. We used to have the bass rolling around us when we were surfing, and that was only a few short years ago. Now, they might do that for a month or 2, and they're gone."

"Surf fishing at night used to be something really special. It was the one way to get out there, get away from the pressures of life, some solitude, get some nice bass, and have a sense of achievement as a surf fisherman. Now, it's a vast area of dead sea, with only a few rays of sunshine in between."

"Guys talk of blitzes for a few minutes, it's comical. We used to have all-night blitzes, which would sometimes go on into days, as the fish feasted on the trapped bait. I haven't seen that in years"

"I can't tell you how many times I am out there, night after night, hoping for a few fish. And I do catch fish, but sometimes I question why the heck I'm out there, with the little amount of fish around."





Thanks for your honesty. :thumbsup:
No ego here, just a mature, experienced rock hopper looking at the decline of striped bass, and asking himself what factors brought the decline to this level. He knows how to catch fish, he's done it thousands of times before. Yet the equivalent of a marine buffet he's walking on every night, still can't draw enough fish so he can catch a few bass and have some fun.


Why? - possible answers
1. Migration patterns change. All the fish are offshore.
OK I'll buy that, but the jetties always held a few resident bass for almost every month of the year. Now they don't....no matter how you analyze it there are less fish available.

2. There are actually less bass around than a few years ago. The striped bass biomass is declining. This is partly because many who had the chance to hear about it, and make choices because they fish and catch every day, continue to take their daily limit of big breeders. They could excercise their option to take less fish, but they don't. :don't know why:

[DarkSkies]

The M&M theory makes an analogy of striped bass fishing to a bowl of M&Ms.

It says that there seem to be more striped bass, to people fishing in the middle of the bowl of M&Ms, because they wouldn't notice any decline. Any decline would only be noticed on the edges of the bowl.
More discussion on that theory here:
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=760&highlight=m%26amp%3Bm+theory&page=8

M&Ms - posts 69 & 69
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=760&highlight=m%26amp%3Bm+theory&page=7


The OFFC (Old Farts Fishing Club) used to hammer this theme into me every time we fished together, only they didn't call it the M&M theory. They saw it in simpler terms.They said the surf fishermen are fishing on the edges, and as we benefit from the overflow of the fish from the offshore migration, we could be the first to notice any declines in fishing. To me, that's similar to the canary in the coal mine, where miners placed a canary in the mine to warn them of deadly invisible gases. If the canary died, it was time for all to leave ASAP. :scared:


So you can call it the M&M theory, or the Canary in a coal mine theory. I think either of them offers a reasonable partial explanation of why there are less resident bass available for surf fishermen.

[DarkSkies]

Many of those in the surf and boating word know Finchaser, with over 55 years of fishing experience.

He's got many theories. As one fortunate enough to know him, I've heard a few. Some of the themes you see on a recurring basis in these threads here are due to his wisdom and the years of knowledge he's gained. :thumbsup:

He saw the abundance of the pre-1984 Moratorium years, and the decline.
He's seen the phenomenal recovery in striped bass stocks after the Moratorium was imposed. :lookhappy:
He's also seen the relatively recent decline in catch numbers for most of the seasoned surf guys in the NJ area.

Anyone who has a chance should listen to some of the posts and warnings he's putting out there. Though he's known to be Grouchy ;) his posts paint a picture to anyone who'll listen, of what's really going on.

There is no diplomacy or sugar-coating in a Finchaser post, he tells it like he sees it.

And what he sees are a decline in the bass available to us surf fishermen, which also implies a decline in resident bass somewhere along the road. :(



Sometimes I wonder if guys really care about any of this. A post about 40 or 50# bass will always draw lots of interest.
Or...will it take months or years of declining catches or skunked trips for many of you to actually start scratching your heads and asking "Why?" :huh:

My point to you is that sometimes it's not so much the catching that's important, someone will always be catching something.

But when there is a sustained lull in activity during what's historically prime time for fishing, it makes sense to question why that's happening... :learn:

[fishinmission78]

You're right on the $$. My logs show every year at this time I can get a few bass before work. It's also the function of the storms and long term weather. The storms messed up the bar at IBSP. We need some good SEers to change that. In the meantime there are a lot less nice cuts than there used to be, and of course you have the inlet. We definitely have seen a drop in the # of bass caught there though. I might have to take some trips north to find new places to fish.

[storminsteve]

I think you're right Dark, there might be less bass. I don't have 20 years, but remember it being awesome at Sandy Hook about 4-5 years ago. It's been going down hill ever since then. Last year there was over a month of great fishing right around this time whick lasted until Dec. This year all you see is guys fishing clams, staring into the ocean, and once every great while one of them will catch a striper.

[voyager35]

This guy spouts off every day, I can't stand him -
"Everything is perfect except for the fish. We need more days like today and last night to get the water temps down and the big run started."

I have news for him, he needs better sources of information.

The water temps are fine. The big run of bass has already started. The bass are in deeper water, but he as a tackle shop owner should know that. I don't know why he would mis-represent that to his customer base. As further proof of this, there bass already in South Jersey, the run is already in full swing. A 43lb bass was weighed in at Brigantine this week.

The problem, as Dark said, is that there truly are not as many bass around. This year is the worst year we have had in a long time. Spring was great when the bass were on bunker, but the fall is also usually pretty bountiful. So far it's been tough, the fish are situated in only a few places with rocks or bait underneath, and miles and miles of the ocean (inshore near the surf) have no striped bass life in them.

We have found fish, but the bite is not the crazy bite it has been in years past. You will have an hour or so of great action and then it shuts down. Today it was overcast, and on overcast days we usually do better. I will emphatically state that according to my fishing logs there are declining striper catches. And sadly, that does translate to less bass for the guys who mostly fish the surf, and less resident bass, as has been said here.

[vpass]

I have to agree. I have noticed less fish and more skunks over the last few years.:burn: I also notice less smaller fish. Most of my bass been between 24 and 28 inches. I use to get a lot of 20 to 23 inch fish, but I hope its more of where I fish now compare to then. :huh:

[jigfreak]

I agree too. I can still catch a bass at some of the sodbanks near the channels and some bridges, but my numbers are down and the fishing is not what it used to be. The food is there, the resident fish arent.

[basshunter]

Resident fish are not here in NJ in numbers like they were only a few short years ago.

Think I'm kidding? Do you have a stash of resident bass that you've been happily nailing, night after night, while more experienced anglers come up empty handed? :huh:

Say "yes" to that question, and my answer to you is that there is a very short list of places where guys can consistently put together catches of quality bass night after night, and many of them aren't accessible from the surf/shore by the general public. ;)


Good point darkskies. A lot of guys in S Jersey fish bridges, back sides of inlets, or the plant. There are always bass around places like that. The real test if there are fish around are if they are distributed over a lot of places. In my experience they are not. So you have to take that into consideration. If a guy is bragging that he gets fish every night, like you said he is usually fishing one honey hole. And you can't have a lot of guys fishing that, or it will be ruined.

[nitestrikes]

I don't know what the answer is DS, but I am guessing it has something to do with your NJ shoreline, has anything changed in the past few years?
We are having a great fall on the SS of Long Island right now. You still have to work for the bass, but we have been catching them solid for over a month now, and sporadically through the late summer from the surf. I'm not talking just Montauk either, just your average beach with cuts and jetties on the SS.

[clamchucker]

It's also the function of the storms and long term weather. The storms messed up the bar at IBSP. We need some good SEers to change that. In the meantime there are a lot less nice cuts than there used to be, and of course you have the inlet. We definitely have seen a drop in the # of bass caught there though

I agree with this statement 100%. There is now a long outer bar at the park. We need a few rough storms to break it up. Without that in some places you need to cast 2-300' or wait until the high tide brings fish over the bar. I have been moving around to different places specifically because of that. However, my logs show less fish caught, declining steadily over the last 3 years. I am older now and have some health problems. It may be that I am fishing less.

However a few of my friends feel the same way. Fishing for bass is not as good as it was in the years after they imposed the moratorium. There has been a slight decline in our area, with the exception of the great spring bunker action. Small school stripers used to hold at the Barnegat jetty throughout the year, and nowadays that is just not true.

[Monty]

I feel there are less fish around (available).
What I would like to see:
1) Limit 1 bass per person 36" or bigger. I would rather see zero bass per person than what we have now.
2) Charter boats are allowed to many bass! Its ridicules and harmful to the Striped Bass Fishery.
3) Salt water fishing license, some of the proceeds go towards enforcing the regulations. $50.00, it will stop some of the poaching.
4) Boats like salty tours sunk (or put the owner in jail).

But in a country where greed is rampant and people with their heads up there a** are running the government and organizations, I have little hope.

I am very worried about the lack of smaller bass this year.

[zev]

ive been scratchin my head wondering where the bass are myself. and my local river always had a good # of residents that would make every trip worth it most of the time. this year has been my worst ever so far.

[DarkSkies]

We've had an intense bait migration in the surf within the last 10 days. In some places you have phenomenal amounts of bunker, large, small, and many other forage fish moving through. This in itself should have predators hitting the shores in hordes as they drive baitfish out of the water.

In some cases, it has happened, as blues 15+lbs and bass to 32lbs were caught in isolated blitzes. This has been great for those fortunate to be there when that was happening. :thumbsup: :fishing:

My point here is that the standard pattern isn't flowing this year as usual. That's part of surf fishin, years of feast followed by years of relative famine while in another area or state they hammer them.

One thing I'm noticing this year is the bigger the varieties of forage available in any surf zone, the more likelihood the larger predators will be drawn in.

The latest blitzes and sustained action periods have seen adult and juvenile bunker, weakfish, croakers, butterfish, spearing, and some scattered tinker mackerel in the mix.

I don't have all the answers here, I'm just trying to get you folks out there to think, and form your own impressions. :learn:

What gives evidence to my theory about resident bass abandoning us is that now we have 10x the bait as we do predators out there. The temps are perfect. Every cut, rockpile, or juicy piece of structure should hold a bass or 2, and that's simply not the case this fall season. :don't know why:

[Monty]

Every cut, rockpile, or juicy piece of structure should hold a bass or 2, and that's simply not the case this fall season. :don't know why:

That is what I have noticed. Places that for the last 3 years had a bass or two now have nothing...but bait

[fishinmission78]

^^ Getting harder and harder to put a catch together. Schoolies and bluefish used to be the glue that held it all in place, now that seems to have went away.

[clamchucker]

I feel there are less fish around (available).
What I would like to see:
1) Limit 1 bass per person 36" or bigger. I would rather see zero bass per person than what we have now.



That is a very sound solution, Monty. I believe the larger minimum size was one of the keys to getting the bass numbers back to normal after the moratorium.

[DarkSkies]

To update this thread, the resident bass have been available for surfcasters for about 1 1/2 weeks now on a semi-steady basis. That still doesn't answer the question about where the hell they have been.

I find them on the T&W when kayaking in the LI Sound every time I fish there, even in the heat of the summer.

My opinion is still that there are less of them around, and less bass overall.

Some might say - "but Dark, look at all the incredible night action...surely that shows that there is no shortage of bass?" :huh:

To that I would respond....then why are so many areas of NJ beaches stone dead and not holding fish? Take away the few places of fantastic action, and what do you have, what would our season be like, and why not all up and down the surf zone for the whole coast?

Think about it...

All responses are welcome. I'm not trying to promote arguments here, but I am aggressively pushing to get you folks to think about this. ;) http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon3.gif

[basshunter]

To that I would respond....then why are so many areas of NJ beaches stone dead and not holding fish? Take away the few places of fantastic action, and what do you have, what would our season be like, and why not all up and down the surf zone for the whole coast?

Think about it...

All responses are welcome. I'm not trying to promote arguments here, but I am aggressively pushing to get you folks to think about this. ;) http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon3.gif

Wow that was kind of depressing. I skimmed through this thread and it was sad to read about how these fish were here and now are like hen's teeth in many beach areas. I don't know if you want to blame the dredging or lack of fish overall, but you can definitely see a difference. I think last year I wasn't catching bass consistently until the first week of october, even with all the baitfish. Of course there are always blues, but even they are on the small side this year.

[vpass]

This year so far i'm seeing more 13 inch to 20 inch bass caught the few times that i'm out. The year class 2 years ago must of been a decent one. It's been a few years since i seen fish that size. I guess you can conclude that we had a few bad striped bass spawns.

The last 3 years I was seeing lots of 26 to 27 inch bass. Those were our resident fish that got culled as soon as they passed the 28 inch mark. There is just to many fisherman keeping fish.

[surfstix1963]

I know I've probably said this a thousand times but the videos this year in NC really should give you some insight about why the fish aren't rolling at your feet as they were 15 yrs ago.The commercial slaughters are insane is that the only reason no but it contributes to it tremendously everyone of those dead fish not breeding or growing to a breeding size this is millions and millions of eggs.And I'm quite sure this is happening up and down the entire eastern seaboard NC just got video taped.

Another key factor I feel is the different coastwide regulations we are hammering just about every size class of multiple species with different regulations whats the answer you will never get a clear cut one because if you have one state with a smaller reg they are not going to want to let it go but eventually the result will be shut downs or closures more tonage given to the commercials and less to the recs eventually it will be over for everybody between dead loss and just simply taking more fish each year they can only reproduce so fast and the less there are the slower the reproduction which will= just about zip the comms will run themselves right out of business so they better hold on to their money because nobodys going to want their boats there useless. Then we have the people doing the regulating they are a giant problem they may have degrees but whats going on really they are clueless the fisherman are the ones that can whip out a log book and physically show you the decline in numbers year to year this is whats really going on with very accurate info rather than the BS we are relying on.

So why all the bait on the beaches and less fish yes therewill be more why less predators so you have the stage set but 1/2 the actors are not present I,ve seen the pattern in NY that the fish are in deeper water and also just ouside the breakers of the inlets and the boats are doing ok better than the surf crowd I also found the rats are generally on the beach sucking up the smaller bait.The last time I really fished I would go to the beach to watch the bait and fish swimming past all of us in about 60 ft. or so of water. I still truly believe the biggest bass everybody wants are history by the end of Sept. and I believe they are feeding on the fluke migration leaving the inlets from the bays as well as picking off some wreck species at slack water.(little tip) I love to toss an unweighted eel at slack water naturally more so in the dusk and dawn slack tides it can be done during the day during the migration as long as old yellow eyes isn't tearing up your eels.

I think it was about 10 yrs. ago there weren't many sandeels around but tons of p-nut bunker now the stage seemed to have reversed there has been more sandeels and alot less larger bait on the beaches and big fish do eat small bait but are they going to stay on a beach and munch on sandeels or slash through schools of bunker in deeper water instinctively these larger fish know through their lateral lines the vibations of small versus large food sources and there packing on the calories so where would you go the cover of deeper water and food or swim in ten ft. of water slurping sandeels I just feel if larger bait is available during the day it will generally be out deep if your lucky on the outer bar if you are really lucky some fish may push them in a cut where you may have a shot.Fishing on a beach is not going to yield much success except with some blues possibly they like to cruise the trough and just feast.Early morning and at dusk to darkness is when the bigger bait feels safer closer in and the bass will be in pursuit the sandeels will burrow pretty much or get sucked up by the rats.Bigger fish tend to school with each other they don't like to compete for food with the rats.

[paco33]

I think it was about 10 yrs. ago there weren't many sandeels around but tons of p-nut bunker now the stage seemed to have reversed there has been more sandeels and alot less larger bait on the beaches and big fish do eat small bait but are they going to stay on a beach and munch on sandeels or slash through schools of bunker in deeper water instinctively these larger fish know through their lateral lines the vibations of small versus large food sources and there packing on the calories so where would you go the cover of deeper water and food or swim in ten ft. of water slurping sandeels I just feel if larger bait is available during the day it will generally be out deep if your lucky on the outer bar if you are really lucky some fish may push them in a cut where you may have a shot.Fishing on a beach is not going to yield much success except with some blues possibly they like to cruise the trough and just feast.Early morning and at dusk to darkness is when the bigger bait feels safer closer in and the bass will be in pursuit the sandeels will burrow pretty much or get sucked up by the rats.Bigger fish tend to school with each other they don't like to compete for food with the rats.

Fascinating, thank you for that characterization. I agree that the peanut population seems to be way down. With all the bunker we see, and even now with bunker in January, how is it possible that there are not more peanuts around?

[baitstealer]

Good point. I don't fish as many places as you guys do, just a few beaches and the bayshore. Hardly any small bass this year except for March. I hope they come back.

[DarkSkies]

This is something I posted elsewhere. Thought it might be time to revisit this thread.....





" The area from Barnegat to Sea Bright......

There are generally no bass around in that area, year round, any more.

Other areas?, absolutely have some year round populations of resident bass...don't have time to list them all, but a few...in general terms...

Chesapeake Bay backwaters, yes
Cape May to Avalon, backwaters,yes
Delaware Bay, deepwater harbors, yes
Philly, deepwater harbors, yes
Mullica River, yes
Maurice River, probably
Toms River, maybe some but clearing out to the power plant when water temps get below 45 degrees.



Raritan Bay and NY Bight, yes, mostly in the deepest harbors and channels
Arthur kill, yes
Hudson River, yes
LI Sound, and the East River, yes,
The large rivers in Ct, dumping into the sound, yes



But as to the Barnegat to Sea Bright area, generally speaking, the bass leave for the winter. There are no resident bass, in numbers, except for the isolated area of the Power plant which provides warmer water and small forage they need to feed on.



Go look for them in January-March in the area mentioned .
You will not find them, in any numbers, in that area.

Another distinction guys might want to learn about is how resident fish become migrating fish, and vice versa, and what conditions happen to cause these transitions. "

[finchaser]

They're DEAD

[storminsteve]

:clapping::clapping: You said it finchaser. We used to have these small school bass all over. You could get them from the inlets or sandy hook. In the beginning of the season this year I got most bass over 28". Didn't see the small ones till 2 weeks ago. Not good. We really need some slot limits or drop the catch limit to 1.

[cowherder]

Great thread here. I too agree with making the limit one striper.

[Monty]

Great thread here. I too agree with making the limit one striper.
I like the 1 bass at 36" or bigger.
That seemed to work last time (if my memory is correct).

[storminsteve]

I think the 36" size is good too. You would still have a chance of getting one from the surf. They would have a chance to breed a few years before becoming dinner. Win win on all levels.

[DarkSkies]

Just to add to this....
Recap of summer fishing....

I did catch fish, so you might argue that the residents are still here during that time.
Some were, but overall I feel only very few specific areas held fish, based on what and where I was catching, in NJ.

I would agree that we do have some residents. You can dive in many deepwater harbors and find a few near rocks, bulkheads, pilings, or ships and other structure.

Is the class of resident fish large enough to be noticed, or for most fishermen to catch them?

I would say, based on my experience, compared to that of 8-10 years ago, that our numbers of resident fish have severely declined. Enough for some to make the claim that there are none.

[DarkSkies]

Additionally, based on my observations, most of these "resident" fish leave for the summer now... they seek out cooler water. Even if that water is just 1-3 miles offshore, or somewhere else along the Coast.

Someone will always be able to point to a few fish they caught. I did catch them in the summer, but had to go to insane lengths to get a few.
There are several harbor and bridge areas in NJ estuaries where some fish can be caught throughout the summer.

IMO that doesn't change the fact that many of these fish that we used to count on being able to catch,,,,are no longer there.
And as part of educating and informing our readers and the fishing community, I thought it important to make this distinction.

thanks for reading, comments or questions always welcome. :HappyWave:

[DarkSkies]

This is a link to a thread that talks about different flowers blooming and how to tell what fish are usually around at that time.
For the last 10 years I would know when to ramp up my fall fishing when these flowers bloomed.....

For the last 2 years, they have disappointed me...
I know there are other factors folks may point to, but I'm simply trying to raise awareness of the possibilities here...
Thanks for reading....

http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?8626-Flowers-that-Say-When-Fish-are-Here

Comments or differing opinions are welcome.

[jigfreak]

Also you should tell people that they were thick at the bridges for most of the year when the season was open. I dont think thats too bad to say cause we cant fish the bridges anymore because of those hispanic aholes that ruined if for everyone. It seems like those small bass disappeared from a lot of prime areas, even the Toms River doesn't hold as many as it used to.

[porgy75]

It seems like those small bass disappeared from a lot of prime areas, even the Toms River doesn't hold as many as it used to.

This is a question for jigfreak or anyone else who knows. On another site someone was saying that the bass winter over in the Shrewsbury and Navesink rivers. And yet here you are saying that the Toms River doesn't hold fish like it used to. So which is closer to reality and how do we know it to be true? Thanks in advance.

[hookset]

The rivers do not hold anywhere near the numbers of bass they were holding 5 years ago porgy. Whoever made that statement either has not fished in 5 years, is using old data, or is talking out of his ***. I agree with jigfreak.

[finchaser]

many were killed by clammers when gut hooked them with there small hooks in March also lets not forget the poachers and people from down Mehhico way who use the excuse we must feed our families.

[hookedonbass]

You wouldn't believe the amount of bass that are taken each year in March that are gut hooked. They throw them in the bushes and then fillet and bbq them right on the beach so they don't get busted or they hide them till ready to leave and then backpack them out. I do think that the problem is bigger than that. People are keeping too many bass period.

[finchaser]

You wouldn't believe the amount of bass that are taken each year in March that are gut hooked. They throw them in the bushes and then fillet and bbq them right on the beach so they don't get busted or they hide them till ready to leave and then backpack them out. I do think that the problem is bigger than that. People are keeping too many bass period.

agreed on too many kept^^^^:clapping::clapping:

[storminsteve]

yeah but people are never going to do anything about it until the last cow is filleted. Then they will scratch there heads and say oh my where did they go?

[jigfreak]

^^ add the tackle shop heroes and bunker snaggers to that list. I am a man cause I got a 50 on a live bunker. Big deal. If I was in Africa and cut the feet off a live lamb you could bet I could shoot a big lioness or find a big lion to shoot too. Where is the skill involved? All about ego and chest beating. No one cares that there are less bass as long as there is one 50 left with their name on it.

[hookset]

Wondered if any body had thoughts on the mix of the bass here now and what % you estimate are resident vs migrators.

[baitstealer]

agreed on too many kept^^^^:clapping::clapping:

I am trying to understand all this maybe you guys can help me. According to some of the reports online I am reading it looks like small bass are finally back. Finchaser you said too many are kept. If thats true how can there be enough to make babies? Have read some of the posts here where you guys say the bass numbers are down. This includes the small bass too? I read up in massachusetts they had a good spring run with schoolie stripers. Is it the right assumption that now when we get the schoolies we have to wait for them to come back from massachusetts? Or do they go somewhere else in the summer like far out into the ocean. Thanks for the help

[DarkSkies]

In a similar way, there are a lot of us who feel that the striped bass biomass figures (the end result calculations, extrapolated from small sample sizes..the catch data....which is mostly accurate for commercials because of the stringent reporting, but not that accurate for recreationals because of sloppy reporting)......

is shrinking......not because we don't like statistics, but because we are out there, more than most..and that is what we see.....because of the time we spend on the water...and the logs we keep year after year...




Many of the veteran saltwater fishermen, fishing for more than a few decades, have noticed a decline in the past 5 years or so.

Unfortunately, regulatory boards don't feel adding the perspective of veteran fishermen with no agenda, to the board, would help the fishery....so we have a disconnect between what regulatory boards claim, and what many of us are actually seeing, and what I am seeing...

1 Less fish per trip
2. Plenty of bait inshore, but less fish on them.
3. Greater gaps in different year classes of fish.

Many of the saltwater fishermen who have decades of experience are noticing the similarities between the conditions that exist now...and the moratorium in the 1980's.....

A. There seemed to be plenty of big fish back then,,,
B. There were many areas where the fish seemed to be less plentiful, as is the case now...
C. The other areas, the fish were stacked up so tightly, there were those who discounted that there was any trouble with the bass stocks.
D. Then, as now, the scientific findings, and regulatory board did not catch up with what what was happening with the fishery, until it was too late.....and the stocks collapsed, resulting in a long slow road back to being rebuilt.


Awareness of this, would then perhaps cause some members to see that history is repeating itself.




Food for thought......http://www.noreast.com/discussion/images/post_icons/ubicon8.gif
I know talking about stats is boring, but the way some data is calculated, I thought some of the newer guys might not be aware of it...and it's important....http://www.noreast.com/discussion/images/smile.gif
Thanks for reading....

[DarkSkies]

Bass are Shrinking in LI as well --
Further evidence that there are certain year classes of striped bass (particularly the smaller ones up to 28", corresponding to 1-7 year old fish) and the larger bass, (particularly the ones 35# and over)...that have large gaps, because these bass are no longer here in the numbers that used to exist, just a few short years ago:



Some comments on Montauk fishing below, and the overall Quality of bass fishing from the surf at Montauk this year. For those who aren't aware...Montauk is an accepted bass migration highway....a stop on the migration trail.....when you can't find bass anywhere else, you can always find them at Montauk......
This was true 15-20 years ago, but as supported by the comments below, not true any longer, to the same extent......




Comment from someone who spends a good deal of every season camped out at Montauk....you would think if anyone could find bass up there, it would be someone who spends months at a time living in his camper out there...but this gentleman could not......I find his observations accurate and compelling. :thumbsup:



Back at you dark....
We do have to do something....

1. being on the beach in my camper from Memorial Day to thanksgiving, every weekend and knowing some good local contacts.....
2. fishing was DEAD on then north Side most of the year.....
3. a few nice fish in June and July....and you mostly had to go deep into the south side to get them.....
4. if it wasn't for the cocktails, there wouldnt be anything.....plenty of big fish in the rips at night.....but dead on the beach...

There are many reasons but one thing I noticed was when the cocktails took over and replaced the 5-8 blues years ago, in the summer, it changed.....it reminded me of fire island inlet with lots of cocktails and little else.....until the bass moved out ....while the boat guys did ok....

there was NO fall run at shagwon, north side!
but a couple weeks of good bass in on the sand beaches. this has become a regular pattern the last few years! well before Sandy.

A. I have never fished so many nights on the north side and struck out....in my wetsuit?
B. there was always a summer residency of bass there.....not anymore.....just a few thoughts...









Most know who Willie Young is...
For the benefit of those who don't.....he is one of the most celebrated Montauk surfcasters, been fishing the Salt in and around LI for over 50 years....I would think that if there were fish to be found, Willie would be able to find them.....:thumbsup:....he's the one quoted below......



Also the big bass that were on the sand in the daylight hours in the summer. Gone.
Willie

"Gone" as in meaning that they do not show up any more in the numbers that they used to, going back 10 years and more.....
Food for thought......thanks for reading.....

[cowherder]

Why would people doubt this? We used to have a lot of smaller bass at sandy hook. Now they only come around in numbers in october. Something has definitely changed. Thanks for the info

[DarkSkies]

I just wrote this today, thought some might like to read it......if you disagree, would like to hear that as well, and why.....:HappyWave:




Early Season RB/NY Bight fishery....
Some observations....As I mentioned, I have only been fishing that area for 25 years.....
The observations here...come mostly from the last 15 years, 8 of which I have seen a noticeable decline......and meeting others who seem to have the same observations..





1. Where are the Small Bass?
As mentioned, there are literally thousands of bass that winter over
a. in the harbors/deep channels of the NY Bight and the Arthur Kill.
b. (There is also a deep trench in the Croton area where many historically winter)

These are the bass (part A) you hear about being caught the first weeks the season is open....typically, most under 24"...with a few teen fish mixed in. 2011 was a notably high YOY count.....while some of the other years were poor......
I have noticed a gap in small bass populations for the last 2 years for this area
*(With one specific exception, will go into more detail for those who want to hear about it)
Whatever the reason, it's what I and others are noticing......

2. Sandy caused some structural changes to the bay...some areas became "dead" for fish and forage.....I'll try to come back and go into more detail when I get a chance.....

3. Scarcity and Concentration - This "death" in some other areas, caused opportunity for concentration in other areas....such as the Old Orchard Light area....which now holds more fish than it ever has, at certain times in the season...Capts who know and use these areas to their advantage are able to catch more consistenty....








4. Late Start? or less Holdover bass.....
Many of you out there know the early pattern for the bass to turn on...shallow water, mud flats....clam beds..we typically enjoy this early holdover action for a few weeks before the early Hudson migrators arrive from down south....

A. Some of you might argue that with the cold winter.,.....the Hudson, Chesapeake, and Delaware migrators, were somewhat delayed.... I would agree with that.....

B. But what about the holdovers?
We have had decent weather in the NY Bight area for 2 weeks now...(with the exception of the last 48 hours)...the important thing...water temperatures are optimal for a robust bass bite...and this has not happened as of yet....

C. Forage available...
Bunker have been in the bay area since March (albeit in smaller pods, and more scattered, but they have still been there)...
Herring have been in our area for over a week.....

D. Early season catches.....
The contacts I have, on both sides of the Raritan Bay/NY Bight....have only caught a few teen bass so far...and a few dozen small bass...
**These same anglers catch fish to 30# every year before the migratory bass get here....(yes, there are a few holdover bass that size, for whatever reason they stay in the Arthur Kill and NY Harbor deepwater channels in the winter).....
These same friends report only a few fish this year.....to the high teens...
Friends in Brooklyn were out trolling the other day and trolled a few teen bass....

Overall, they are not getting the numbers, that they used to get.....
This is a recurring theme I hear over and over from seasoned anglers and Capts who fish this area....

[DarkSkies]

Thought I would bring this up again for Steve and anyone else who wants to learn some things....

Has anyone caught numbers of bass in the Shrewsbury or Navesink rivers in the last 2 months?
I know old-timers who live close by and fish there every day...and keep repeating how terrible it has been compared to a decade ago......

There has been a tremendous build up of bait in some of the Secondary areas, like the ones above....small bluefish, fluke, rays, dogfish, and other species are feeding voraciously, and very few bass to be found......

Feel free to chime in with any comments you may have.....:fishing:

[BassBuddah]

Hope this is the right thread. If not please put it somewhere it will do the most good. Found these comments on youtube by Frank Theo, a guy who fished during the moratorium:

"I've been fishing the surf plugging buck tailing and throwing tins off of Breezy Point and parts of Riis Park & L.I. for over thirty years and haven't seen schoolie bass in the back bay area's as well as the ocean like I use to when I was a kid."