Where are the Striped Bass?

[bunkerjoe4]

As promised, I said I would be putting up some threads that got you folks to look at some opinions that might be different from yours, and the flawed scientific data we now accept as Gospel.

Remember that Apathy is the enemy of Democracy. :learn:
*****************************



Where are the Bass? (and shad)

Folks, the spring Striped bass hasn’t been that spectacular this year for surf fishermen. For the folks that have more mobility and can target them in boats, the run seems about equal to the years before. I reported that guys were catching them, and when, in my reports. However, most of the people doing the catching were die-hard anglers who target them every year. Many others have gone fishing for them, and have been disappointed.

Now, one year of poor fishing is nothing to raise a fire alarm about, and I want to make this clear to people. There are many reasons why we could have a poor run:


Cyclical nature of fishing
Less than optimal weather conditions, ie. Too hot, cold, or rainy. Different streamflow or ocean current conditions as a result of the weather.
A poor birth rate in the past year or years can contribute to a poor “year class” which affects biomass down the road.
Predators and disturbances preventing eggs from being fertilized.
More people targeting them (This is the possibility that few want to talk about, because it promotes strong opinions on both sides, and on many boards ends up with insults or bad feelings.)
More people joining the community of fishermen, which means more people are fishing overall, or have started to target that species. There is nothing wrong with this. It’s a free country, and every who wants to fish should have the right to do so. However, greater participation by new anglers will probably affect the biomass in years ahead, and we should start talking about how better to share our precious resources.
I decided to begin these specific threads in response feedback about the fishing reports. Some people said: “Joe, how can you be so positive in your WIR reports each week if many people, especially those who don’t have a boat, are going out and catching nothing each time?”

One response to that is they are not fishing at the right times.

In the case of shad, you really need to fish at times when the tide and light conditions are optimal. Sometimes the the bite is off for reasons other than what an angler thinks.

Also, if the current is too strong in the rivers due to rainwater runoff, conditions will be less than optimal. If you can get the right condition of outgoing tide, current, and light, your chances are better.

Unfortunately, many people cannot time all these conditions for optimal effectiveness. We all have jobs, family responsibilities, and other commitments. We fish when we can.

Another response is that the healthy bass populations are eating more shad, which affects the biomass overall. It is interesting to note that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. A diehard shad fisherman will tell you the shad numbers are down. They will cite many possibilities for this, and the question of whether striped bass eat too many shad comes up time and time again.

A diehard striped bass fisherman, particularly if they have been fishing for decades, will also grudgingly admit that the bass numbers are “possibly” down, and cite many different reasons why they think this is true.

We all have reasons for arriving at different conclusions, and everyone has a right to their opinion. It’s extremely difficult to prove, with science, which opinion is more valid than another.

If you are getting skunked when you fish for striped bass and bluefish from the surf, here is some helpful info:

Large predators, particularly striped bass, are low light feeders that feed predominantly at sunrise, dusk, and in the night.

You will always have situations where people catch big striped bass and bluefish in the daytime. However, these mostly involve times where there predators are coaxed into a frenzy by the presence of large bait schools, particularly large bunker schools.
The continued presence of healthy bunker does more to help promote surf fishing than many other factors. Without bunker, pickings would be mighty slim, and some people might give up fishing for good.

I addressed these possibilities to help people catch more fish, but I also want to address the most serious (and hardest to prove) possibility:

What if there are not “more fish” to catch?


What if we are really making a difference in the fish population, and will not know the scientific truth for a few years? Is it pointless to try to talk about it now?

I am putting this out there for anglers who want to spend a little time, research this topic, learn from the research, and form their own opinions.

We, as anglers and sportsmen, represent a HUGE lobby that could get many things done, if we could all agree at the same time on one or more issues. Yet, we are highly fractionalized into many different groups and clubs.

Some of these groups feel they should not get involved in something if another group is supporting it. Others, who have less than a decade fishing experience, haven’t seen the vast changes that can occur in our different fisheries.

All I am asking is for people to do some research, educate themselves, and get more involved, before the well-organized members of the PEW trust get involved and try to take our choices away.

(If you have never heard of the PEW Trust, google them and learn how they are behind many of the MPAs and Marine closures in this country.) They also cleverly try to work behind the scenes by putting out money for scientific research, done by "fishermen". this allows every piece of material they publish to have an air of legitimacy. I do not have enough info to stand up and challenge their methods. However, it is my opinion that they are very clever in getting involved "behind the scenes" so people who suspect their goal is to restrict fishing will not sound the alarm.


This info took a long time to put together for you folks. I will continue to provide threads like this when I can, because I feel it is worth it to raise awareness. I also welcome comment from any people who can give us proof of positive things organizations like the PEW trust has done for fishermen. Democratic debate encouraged here.

[bunkerjoe4]

The main theme of this thread is whether or not the striped bass population is declining, and what could be the possible reasons for declines in surf catches. I am talking about changes over decades. A year or so of poor fishing does not necessarly indicate a crisis, but it should raise some questions when the NMFS and ASMFC stats indicate the striped bass population is at historical highs.

I do not believe any solution will be cut and dried, nor will it please everyone, as indicated by sentiments of shad anglers that Striped bass biomass is growing at the expense of shad and herring.

Everything is inter-related. I believe if fisheries management was more inclined to look at things this way, and more motivated to produce cleaner, more accurate data, we would have a better position from which to make informed choices.

The following posts illustrate a series of comments I found by a veteran NJ surf angler, Allen Riley. He is a very skilled fisherman, with decades of experience. :HappyWave:

Lately he has not been catching bass at Sandy Hook. This is odd to me because a man with his experience seems to pull bass out of the water when no one else can.http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

There are several possible reasons why he is not catching too many bass this year as of yet. Many of our members are catching bass in the dead of night, which makes sense. However, he fishes sunrise religiously, which used to be productive.

Maybe the bass have shifted migration away from the near shore Jersey surf, (which doesn't make sense because guys in boats are still catching them).

There is a corrollary possibility that the runs are cyclical. NY surf areas are having a bonanza, this Spring being the best in a long time for some of them. If the bass have seemed to bypass the surf in NJ, why are they consistently being caught in the surf in NY?

Other reasons: the bait is just not there in quantities of the past, water temperatures have caused a lot of bass to migrate northward without stopping here, or several other possiblities come into play.

What if one of those possibilities is that there are less bass to be caught? How could this be possible?

If you can, please read his comments, and feel his frustration. There is also a comment by the owner of woofish.com. He is another veteran angler who feels the numbers are down, though there is no scientific proof as of yet.

Anyone who has anecdotal evidence to add, please feel free. Many feel this is a load of BS, and I know this will not make me popular with many folks. Lots of businesses have a vested interest in people spending as much as possible seeking and catching striped bass.

I don't fault these people. They are only trying to make a living.

I felt it was time to try to address some of it. Many times in discussions with anglers, each group blames another group.

Many anglers have said to me they feel it is the commercial guys, who they feel are dumping too many bass as bycatch. If you read the statistics, you will see it is not the fault of commercial fishermen. They have reputations for lots of things, but killing the bulk of striped bass should not be blamed on them.

Anyone who wants to do research and post ASMFC and NMFS data before I can get to it, feel free. Or you can just vent your opinions here.

Following are the comments --

[bunkerjoe4]

Where are the Bass?


5/29 - Sandy Hook Surf
I fished Sandy Hook from 5:15 - 8:15 this morning with worms and bunker chunks. You could not ask for a nicer weather day. The air was crisp and clear, there was a moderate offshore wind, the water was crystal-clear, the air temp tolerable, and the surf barely moving.
I took a leap of faith this morning in not wearing waders or boots for the first time. The water IS still very cold but manageable. It was nice not to be encumbered with my waders for a change.
George Levins joined me around 7 a.m. and we had the entire shoreline to ourselves. There was not another angler on the beach in either direction. George fished clams.
George fished the Hook the entire holiday weekend. He saw only skates and sea robins caught on all three days at "B" beach. No one had any luck whatsoever with stripers. One of his associates fished "C" beach Sunday and encountered 10-pound bluefish attacking big bunkers in the cove there (5:45 - 6:30 a.m.) Those blues never showed at "B" although George said that a school of blues were just out of casting range on Monday. (Boaters slaughtered them!)
Another angler emailed me that he fished Sandy Hook's North Beach Sunday night/Saturday morning. Around 3 a.m. he and his associates found bunker pods heading north with big bluefish and stripers chasing them. According to his report, they caught over 100 stripers and 8 keeper stripers on lures from 3 a.m. until about 9 a.m. The bass ranged from 29 to 37-inches. He claimed that in his 40 years of fishing he had never seen so many adult bunker beached during a blitz.
As with most things in life, timing is everything!




5/23 - Sandy Hook Surf Dead
If this account seems familiar, it is because I have described similar results after my last several visits to Sandy Hook. The annual surf striper run should be in full swing but this year it never even got started.
I fished solo this morning from 5:20 until about 8 a.m. I used fresh bunker chunks and even enhanced them with BioEdge Fishing Bunker Scent. I also tried fishing some of the Greedy Bait Fat Worms (freeze-dried sandworms.
The good news is that I hit a blitz; the bad news is that it was a skate blitz. They hit every bunker chunk that I threw their way from when I first arrived until I ran out of bait. Except for a couple of sea robins, that was all that I had to show for my time and effort.
There was no visible bait in the wash, no gulls working over fish offshore, and not even many boats passing by. There was a solo angler working a beach far to my north and two anglers fishing bait about 500 feet to the south of me.
Where's the fish!?




5/21 - Stripers, Blues Conspiciously Absent from Sandy Hook Surf
I fished the Sandy Hook surf solo this morning from 5:30 until just after 8 a.m. My bait choice was fresh bunker.
The conditions were ideal: mid-tide with the tide coming in, a settled surf, moderate wind, sunny sky, and comfortable conditions. Yesterday's rain was just a memory. Unfortunately, no one sent the fish a memo that they were supposed to be there and be cooperative.
Other than that dogfish, I only caught one small skate. There were no signs of bait in the wash or fish working under gulls offshore. Oddly enough, there were not even any party, charter, or private boats passing by. There were more anglers along the shoreline this morning than on Monday (when there were none!). None of the anglers within my eyesight caught anything.


From another internet fishing board:
5-21-08 boat - Where the heck are the stripers? Almost June and no spring run, this sucks!

More of Allen Riley's comments as originally posted on NJangler.com:
5/19 - Sandy Hook Surf Dead
By this time in May, the Sandy Hook surf run of stripers is normally red-hot. I caught no bass (or blues) either this morning or last Thursday when my brother accompanied me.
Last week I fished live clams, bunker chunks, and sandworms but just worms and bunker this morning. Except for several large skates this morning, there was no action whatsoever.
Of concern to me is that none of my surf associates are calling or emailing me about fish that they have caught, and there was not a single angler on the beach in either direction while I fished this morning from 5:30 until just after 8. When the fishing is good, anglers line the shoreline jockeying for prime spots.
Surf fishing is always about being in the right spot at the right time. Either I have been in the wrong spots or have fished at the wrong time - or the fish just are not there.
Boaters seem to be doing decently with the bass and blues but you do not even read reports in the newspaper saltwater fishing columns about fish being caught in the surf. Hopefully, the surf will soon come alive and draw anglers into the action.


5/6 - Stripers Still Absent from Sandy Hook Surf
What a difference a day makes! Blues attacked any bunker chunk dunked in the Sandy Hook surf yesterday morning but even that action was missing this morning. Just like yesterday, striped bass were conspiciously absent.
The big question is: Where are the bass? The Sandy Hook spring striper sun run normally is well underway by now.



[This comment was made by another staff member of the NJangler.com, where most of these comments were taken from.]


5/3 - Delaware Bay (AKA "The Dead Sea")
We made a decision to stick to a certain area of the bay where a few friends had taken occasional nice fish lately. Armed with the freshest bunker chunks imaginable, fresh herring, clams, and a baitwell full of live bunker, we set up in the fog just before 7am with high hopes. Well, those hopes stayed high through about noon, then slowly dwindled after that. Despite bunker flipping as far as the eye could see in every direction, we didn't see a single fish all day. In fact, we didn't hear a single radio report of a single bass all day. A few small drum was the only word.
In the end, nearly 50 boats fished the tournament and only 8 boats caught a fish, and at least one of those boats ran all the way to the Chesapeake Bay to do it. I can't ever remember a year when the Delaware Bay was so devoid of stripers. I am confident that this will change soon, at least to some extent, but it's nonetheless concerning to me.



This quote comes from woofish.com

12/17/07 - I am unhappy to report the striper situation from my standpoint is still on the decline. My personal striper count for this year dropped to 765 from 1400+ in 2006. I fish mostly from the beaches and the shore of the bays on outer Cape Cod. The number of big fish has declined drastically. Most other fishermen I have talked to have similar results. Do what you can to help rectify this bad situation. Get involved!

[captnemo]

Hey bunkerjoe, sometimes I hear from surf guys that all us boat guys are killing them every night. Some of us have had a great spring so far, but not all of us. This quote came from another site. I will try to post other comments here as time permits. I think this thread was a great idea. Time to get it out in the open before it's too late.:clapping:



"Took my 6th or 7th trip tonight for stripers. Well, 2 keepers on the boat, with a couple of dropped fish. Personally, did not get a striper to touch my bait, but did pull in a few blues before dark. I only have one keeper so far this spring, which is the worst in the past ten springs. Doesn't seem to be just me, kind of everyone is strugling.

Any root causes?"

[stormchaser]

I have been striped bass fishing for about 15 years, and I would definitely agree with what you are trying to do here. My logs show less numbers, mostly declining in the last 5 years. I didn't always catch decent numbers, especially before the moratorium, but if referring to total numbers since the moratorium was enacted, the first few years were better for me, and the last 5 have declined.

[fishinmission78]

written by Bill Donovan, publisher of NJ Angler :clapping:





I have stayed out of this debate, primarily because I try to make it a point not to criticize anglers for following the letter of the law. Two stripers is really not a lot of fish to keep for an occasional angler who charters a boat and happens to enjoy the best fishing day of his or her life. Besides, we are so overly regulated right now (and these regulations are really starting to affect our industry) that I hate to be pushing for more.

However, I happen to believe that the once-in-a-lifetime action along the Northern Jersey beaches is NOT representative of the overall health of the stock. In NJ alone, go just a few miles south and striper anglers are pretty close to being dry, and have been all spring. For example, there was no spring run in the Delaware Bay. None, Zilch, Zippo. I understand completely that things like water temp, forage, etc. play a role, and that fish surely do have tails, but with a stock so strong, how can it be that they bypassed the Delaware System? There are trends I've watched for a few years now, and they are disturbing.

I wrote about this issue at length in our March issue, and you can read the article in its entirety by clicking here (http://www.njangler.com/publishersblog.php?domain=&arcyear=2008&arcmonth=3). I hope you'll take a few minutes to do it. There is a lot of technical information in there that you may find interesting.

Let me bring up one point that I mentioned in another thread in another forum last week. If one were to think back to the 1970's, the last period that produced giant stripers like we're seeing now, all those big bass were taken in and around Raritan Bay and along the northern NJ coast, like they are today. Despite the fact that the world record came from Atlantic City in '82, there was little or no directed striped bass fishery in NJ south of LBI during those years. The impact of the more consistent Hudson nursery to the striped bass fishery was apparent during that timeframe, and I believe we are seeing the same thing now.

Those who have read Frank Daignault's "Twenty Years on the Cape" will see similarities between then and now. In that book the author writes about an incredible big fish opportuntiy throughout the 70's before the bottom fell out in the 80's. I happened to peruse that book again the other day, and the similarity to today's situation gave me chills.

I'm not saying the sky is falling with respect to striped bass, but I am saying that those who are fortunate enough to participate in what is going on underneath those bunker schools in northern NJ should understand that it is very, very special and quite localized. Don't take it for granted, not for a second, because you may blink at it may be gone.
__________________
Bill Donovan
Publisher, NJ Angler
Co-host, NJ Angler Video Magazine

[hookedonbass]

My father and uncles talk about this all the time. I really haven't been fishing that long as compared to everyone else, but guys are saying this more and more. Me, I'm just happy to catch one bass, that's what they should change things to.

[dogfish]

Don't have proof to post for ya, but I can tell ya that Mass and Maine are having some of the worst fishing ever. Guys in boats are getting nice fish, but for us fishing the surf and rivers, the numbers seem down.

[albiealert]

I think there are too many "meat-men". Guys who take their limit day in and day out. This will go on until they do something to change the laws. Great thread.:clapping:

[paco33]

I fish mostly on my brother in law's boat. He's been fishing for them for 20 years. We get bass, but this and last year have not been as good as when I first started going for them. If you run into a spring or fall blitz, its all good. Otherwise, we are catching less, especially in the summer.

Good thread.

[captnemo]

I think next Spring we'll see a decline in the fishery based on the numbers of large that were reported this Spring. You all know that many guys won't report, the real numbers have to be bigger.

[stripercrazy]

Bump for a great thread.

[rockhopper]

Wow, I was searching the pages and found this. Very informational stuff.

[7deadlyplugs]

This was such a great fall, no one will think that way. I like your line of thinking though, we should all try to think of the future.

[gjb1969]

well i have bin doing well since the spring i dont know were u guys have bin fishing but its bin one of my best years the only thing that slowed me down was work :eek: but now i am puting away the striper stuff till spring then i will be back at :fishing: and my last keeper was 40 inches:clapping:

[bababooey]

This came from the NY times 12/10/08




".....David Blinken, a fly-fishing guide who had taken us fishing that morning, cautioned that the fish stacked up at Montauk Point did not necessarily mean the fishery was healthy. This year, he said, the population was noticeably down.
“Other guides and captains from Maine to New Jersey are noticing the same thing,” Blinken said. “People are taking too many fish.”
Orifice reported the same.
“Charter boats are going out — captain, mate and six anglers — and taking their limit, two fish per person over 28 inches,” he said. “That’s 16 fish per trip, including the captain and mate. They go out three times a day and limit out every time.”
Frank Crescitelli, who runs fishing charters for catch-and-release anglers in the New York area, described a major black-market fishery for stripers.
“I could take you out any day of the week, seven days a week, and show you someone poaching stripers, right off the parachute jump at Coney Island,” Crescitelli said. “They’re back at the dock by 9 or 9:30, loading a van with fish, unharassed and unchallenged.
“From Montauk to Staten Island, there are only seven marine conservation officers. How could they possibly police that amount of water?”
In one recent striped-bass poaching case, an angler was caught — within New York City limits, where commercial fishing is illegal — with 872 pounds of striped bass.
“In the mid-’80s, there was a moratorium on striped bass: no commercial fishery at all,” Crescitelli said. “You know how to fix something? Leave them alone.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/11/sports/othersports/11outdoors.html

[captnemo]

Joe, I found something to add to this. It came from a blog where they also sell outdoor gear, I hope it's ok to post the link. What this guy says is the same thing you have been implying. Friends who live in Maine had a poor season in 2008, and some of the southern areas have had diminished spring runs. Among friends who own boats, there are not many that will consider this, except for a few guys I know who fish a lot. This all adds up to a smaller biomass, it makes sense to me. My .02. Great thread.





"Large concentrations of bass in some areas doesn’t necessarily equate to a healthy stock:
Man, there were some crazy striped bass blitzes in Montauk this year. The kind that make you just drop your rod and say “Holy *@$%!”. Truly extraordinary stuff. Understandably, such blitzes might make one believe that striped bass are extremely abundant. Unfortunately that is not the case. In other regions, particularly the Northeast, there are widespread complaints about the lack of quality stripers. In Maine, guides are going out of business because of the very real lack of what was once a thriving fishery.

As guides like Capt. Dave Pecci and Capt. Doug Jowett point out, it’s not due to the lack of forage as there seems to be abundant bait concentrations in the areas that they fish. Indeed I fear that Maine’s position at the northernmost part of the striped bass migration makes it a bellwether state.

In light of such Montauk blitzes, I ask you to consider the below passage taken from a University of New Hampshire Department of Natural Resources document titled A Guide to Fisheries Stock Assessment.

This is the document used to educate members of the fisheries management councils on how fisheries stock assessments are conducted:
“Fishermen will actively seek out areas with greater fish concentrations. As a result, their catch-per-unit effort could remain stable in the face of a declining stock. Consider a stock that contracts its range as the population shrinks, or increases its range as the population grows. Despite the changing range, catch-per-unit effort may remain relatively constant if the fishermen focus their effort on the center of the range, where fish density remains relatively stable.”

With this in mind, I would think managers would be practicing extreme caution when managing striped bass, particularly in light of its immense recreational value. Unfortunately, that doesn’t seem to be the case.

Delaware and Pennsylvania want open two-month fishing seasons targeting mature male striped bass. Maryland has proposed to extend non-quota management for its trophy fishery in 2009 and until stock assessment indicates that corrective action is necessary, and Virginia wants to extend its season.

All of these measure will increase fishing mortality on striped bass.

In my opinion they are reckless, and they show no respect for the views of those hardworking Maine guides that are being forced out of business. Undoubtedly, there seems to be a trend toward killing more bass rather than a move in the other direction.

That’s understandable given the recent stock assessment and the states’ understanding that their anglers want to kill more bass. But I think there’s a large majority of folks that would rather proceed down a precautionary road. Once which insures that we have plenty of big fish around in the future. It’s up to these anglers to let their state reps know their wishes. It seems as if the kill-more-fish-now folks are the only ones being listened to at this point, and that has to stop."
Captain John McMurray (http://laterallineco.com/ambassadors/john_mcmmurray_one_more_cast_charters_jamaica_bay_ guide.html)

http://www.laterallineco.com/blog/category/striped-bass/

[voyager35]

:clapping::clapping::clapping: to Bunkerjoe for having the courage to start this thread. Not everyone will agree, at least we can sit here and have conversations like adults instead of pointing the fingers at each other. I get a little irritated when surf guys come down on we who mostly fish on boats. We're all in this together, when the big bass are no longer around we all suffer. Here's a great, reasoned argument supporting exactly what you were saying, Joe. It was posted by Capt Aaron Kelly of Rock Solid fishing out of North Carolina. I hope it's ok to mention his name here. I think Capt Kelly is spot on. It's not only the commercial guys, it's all of us.





".....Hope you guys can tell I am pretty jacked up on the fishing. The only bummer has been the beach net, drop net, and trawling seasons all have been open. This is the first time ever in NC history to my knowledge that all three are open at the same time. The trawlers have been super whacking them hopefully they crushed their quota.

Everyone wants a piece of the ever dwindling pie and we have to get all this mismanagement in order or in three years there will be no stripers!!! DEPEND on THAT!!! Depend on it!!! Greed is wiping out the stripers.

I do not want commercial fishing out of the picture but reasonable harvesting techniques and accountable quotas need to be in place. So guys lets try to throw a few back for seed.

And to all you high graders... rec and commercial...quit .

Seeing floating 15- 20 lb stripers half dying on top of the water because the trawler wants to sell the biggest 100 he can box is wrong. It is good busines for him and most of us would do the same in their shoes.

Put an observer on the boat the them whack the crap out of em and when the poundage quota is filled then they go harvest something else. Besides the 15-25lbers to me taste better. :clapping:

I am telling you guys the stock, just like I said last year at this time are down, try way down to 20% of what is was five years ago. That is forty million stripers gone. It blows my mind in the year 2009 we are going to finish off the striper stocks to endangered because of greed. Not many in the industry both commercial and charter want to admit it openly but believe me behind the scenes the consensus is the same, the ha ha ride is gonna end.
Thanks to everyone for fishing!!!"

[seamonkey]

I am noticing the bass bite has seem to slow down for the south Jersey area. I wonder if this is the way it is for this time of year, or it there were actually less bass around this year from last. It's so hard to figure out. I read this thead, but how can you actually tell without science behind you?

[plugginpete]

Some science for you seamonkey. This is a great Read by Ted Williams.:thumbsup:

http://www.stripersforever.org/Info/Stripers_BBoard/I011EB99C.0/TW%20FRR%20piece%20on%20SB%20July%202009.pdf

Darkskies. I tried to copy this outside of the pdf, but it seems your site had restrictions on the size of a post, so here it is, broken down into 10.:D

Striper Signals
If you care about fishing along the Atlantic
coast for striped bass, be afraid—very afraid.


CONSERVATION

by Ted Williams


SHORT CASTS



ALL ABOUT...



THERE IS ABUNDANT EVIDENCE THAT



the Atlantic population of striped bass is



crashing. But why should you listen to



me, when I and virtually all my fellow



striper advocates who aren’t fish managers



have been saying this for five years?



And why should you listen to us when



the trained professionals hired to tend the



resource promise that everything is fine



and dandy and when all we anglers can



offer is anecdotal info—the most unreliable



of all evidence, “barroom biology”



as it has been called?




Before I answer those questions, here’s



another: Why should you listen to the



managers who, relying on what they



called “scientific evidence,” ran stripers



to commercial extinction less than three



decades ago, all the while assuring us that



everything was fine and dandy?




Finally, in 1984, Congress intervened with the



Atlantic Striped Bass Conservation Act, a



law requiring the Secretary of Commerce



to impose a moratorium on striper fishing



in any East Coast state not in compliance



with a management plan hatched by the



Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission



(ASMFC), representing coastal states



from Maine to North Carolina, Pennsylvania,



and the District of Columbia.




Because they were on a congressionally



mandated rescue mission and, more



importantly, because they had the help of



sportfishermen who forced moratoriums,



ASMFC managers did better. Rocket science



it wasn’t.




Suddenly stripers had a chance to grow up and spawn, and the



population rebounded spectacularly. But



the ongoing media mantra that this was



a “triumph” of fisheries management is



like lauding a pilot for executing a perfect



belly landing after he’d forgotten to



deploy the landing gear.




Now the slaughter is on again, dwarfing



anything we saw in the 1970s; and when



it comes to mindsets, even a taxonomist



can’t tell a state manager from an ASMFC



manager. Both see fish as swimming wheat



to be reaped at so-called “maximum sustainable



yield.”




Managing for abundance



and healthy size and age structure instead



of dead-on-the-dock protein has never



occurred to them.




Let’s get back to the apparent striper



crash. First, fish crashes generated by professional



fisheries managers take a good



deal longer to manifest than five years,



as we saw with the cod crash, the haddock



crash, the white-marlin crash, the



swordfish crash, the tuna crash, the grouper



crash, the snapper crash, the snook



crash, the redfish crash, the weakfish



crash, the winter-flounder crash, the fluke



crash, the southern-flounder crash, the



Atlantic-salmon crash, the Pacific-salmon



crash, the steelhead crash, the river-herring



crash, the menhaden crash, and the



first striper crash, to mention just a few.

[plugginpete]

A
t this writing, the statistics for the


recreational striper catch in 2008 are



considered preliminary, but the numbers


are appalling.




Coastwide, anglers landed (that is, released or killed) 14,107,835


fish, the worst year since 2000. Along


the Atlantic coast, some guides had to


cancel their seasons. Maine was down


from 1,004,780 fish in 2000 to 518,988


in 2008; New Hampshire from 213,868


to 91,433; Massachusetts from 7,563,326


to 4,001,795; Virginia from 1,357,299 to


647,542; North Carolina from 293,080


to 136,699. In a commercial fishery, the


value of fish increases as they get harder


to catch, so you may see more fish caught


as a stock declines.




Recreational landings,


on the other hand, tend to follow stock


abundance; and, in fact, stock assessments


are based on recreational landings.


The managers explain the dreadful fishing


with anecdotal evidence of their own,


claiming the stripers were just everywhere


anglers weren’t. One—a decent, competent


man and a fine scientist—told me


this: “Reports were that the fish were


offshore in New York and New Jersey.


Supposedly the water temperature was a


bit below average [keeping them south];


and they had record recreational catches


down there.” But the preliminary recreational


stats (which I don’t believe he had


seen) reveal no such thing.


Each year, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife


Service coordinates a cooperative trawling


expedition for wintering striped bass off


North Carolina.

[plugginpete]

This is not a population
survey; it is strictly a tagging operation.
Still, it’s a good indicator of abundance.
Since 1990 the best catch was 6,275 fish
in the year 2000; the worst was 147 in
2009. The average from 1987 to 2006
was 2,212, but the average for the last
three years was 516.


Even if the anecdotal evidence that
the fish are just hanging out elsewhere is
accurate, something is terribly amiss—
most likely a lack of food in their historic
range. Grossly malnourished bass showing
up in ever increasing numbers, especially
in Chesapeake Bay, which produces 75
percent of the coastal population, would
seem to confirm this.


I have never understood why managers
think they can minister to a predator
without taking care of its prey. Eighty percent
of a wintering striper’s diet by weight
is (or used to be) Atlantic menhaden. But
one company—Omega Protein out of
Reedville, Virginia—has been allowed
to plunder menhaden to the point that a
substantial part of the striper population
is starving. In 2006 ASMFC reluctantly
established a menhaden harvest cap for
Chesapeake Bay of 109,020 metric tons—
ineffective because, since then, landings
have averaged 30 percent below that.


A study by the Chesapeake Bay Ecological
Foundation, ongoing since 2004, has
found that large, migratory female striped
bass are remaining in the upper bay all
winter, further depleting menhaden and
thereby further stressing resident stripers.
The big females are there, explains
foundation president Jim Price, because
they can’t find menhaden along the coast.
“Winter is the most critical time in a striper’s
life cycle because it has to feed heavily
to develop its gonads,” he says. “But
many of the fish we see have shrunken
belies and are emaciated. In summer
commercial fishermen have to throw out
maybe ten percent of their bass. The fish
are in such bad shape that the fillets are
thin and white, not fit to eat.”

[plugginpete]

Tag-recapture data from spring spawning
grounds in Maryland and Virginia
indicate a precipitous and continuing
drop in striper survival. Fish captured
in autumn are physiologically indistinguishable
from fish starved in the lab
for two months.


This stress makes them
vulnerable to mycobacteriosis, a disease
that causes loss of scales, skin ulcers,
severe weight loss and lesions on head,
spleen, kidney, liver, heart and gonads. At
least 60 percent of the stripers in Chesapeake
Bay are infected.


Apparently the plague is being assisted
by commercial net fishermen who handle
and release diseased fish, and then handle
and release healthy shorts (non-legal-sized
fish). It is moving quickly up the coast,
and it seems to be transferable to humans,
at least in the form of “fish-handler’s
disease,” which manifests itself with
lymph-node swelling, Lyme-disease-like
joint stiffness and bacterial infection. As
I write I’m looking at it on my left thumb.
Believe me, you don’t want it.
F

ishing guides spew anecdotal information

like squid ink; but when they all
are saying the same thing independently,
even managers need to listen. Two of the
best and most experienced striper guides
on the East Coast are Capt. Doug Jowett
and Capt. David Blinken. Jowett, who has
the perspective of guiding both in Maine
and Massachusetts, offers this: “My contacts
all the way to North Carolina are
singing the same song—striped-bass fishing
is in dramatic decline due to poor numbers
of fish in every year class out there.


The decline isn’t just a one-year event. The biomass
and year-class distribution have been
declining for the past five years. There are
certainly plenty of ASMFC failures. Seems
like every fish they touch is or has been in
serious trouble. Nobody says there aren’t
any striped bass. We’re saying there’s a
problem looming for the stock. The system
allows for fishing the biomass down.”
And this from Blinken, who guides in
New York and Massachusetts with forays


into Rhode Island and Connecticut: “I
think stripers are in massive decline. I
saw fewer fish on the flats in 2008 than
in any of the 17 years I’ve been guiding.
Montauk (N.Y.) fishing was magical,
but if you distribute those fish across the
[migratory] range, that’s not a lot.


The guys were coming over from Rhode Island
and Connecticut because there was nothing
on their side. The year before we were
all getting a lot of big fish. Typically a
year or two before the collapse of any
fishery you get big fish; then it bottoms
out. It’s like what happened with cod; the
managers said there were plenty, but the
inshore guys were seeing fewer and fewer
fish. Last year was frightening. A good
day on the flats you used to get 20 bass; in
2008 a good day was maybe seven.”

[plugginpete]

S

o what to do? First, the managers need

to sharply reduce the fishing mortality
rate, which (because they’ve plugged it into
a logarithmic equation) they call “F.” But
convincing ASMFC to do this is a task no
less challenging than summoning Neptune
from the deep. Currently F is .31, which
equates to removal of maybe 27 percent
of the population. That’s above what the
managers claim to be the safe target of .30
but below what they claim to be the danger
threshold of .34. It’s a tight squeeze, but
this is how managers think—maximize
protein extraction.


Last summer, after implementing a new
model, they reduced the danger threshold
from .41, a statement based on their
highly questionable supposition that there
are even more fish than they had previously
imagined. And in February 2009
half the ASMFC board backed a proposal
by North Carolina to increase the commercial
fishery by 25 percent, a measure
that failed because of a tie vote.
There isn’t a more reasoned, temperate
striped-bass advocate than **** Brame,
the Coastal Conservation Association’s
Atlantic States Fisheries coordinator. “The
danger threshold and the target are too
close,” he submits. “With all the potential
for error you could be over your threshold
and not know it. And it’s clear that
fishing at F .30 does not allow the stock
to fully recover its age structure. You need
F at .20 or .25 to get any appreciable
numbers of those older fish.


The plan says age structure will be restored to the
extent practical, which means lowering
F. However, ASMFC allows a large harvest
of smaller fish in the producer areas.
That doesn’t get you there. You can’t kill
fish twice—when they’re young and when
they’re old. You’d be surprised how many
managers want to do this. They want to
maintain a high population level, which
implies lowering F, then allow this smorgasbord
of size and bag-limit slots up and
down the coast so you can’t see what the
population’s doing. The striped bass is
the ASMFC’s crown jewel; and in my
opinion it’s becoming tarnished. At this
point they’re not willing to do anything
about it.


There are a lot of things we
don’t understand; and uncertainty calls
for caution.”
One source of mortality managers
don’t factor in is the enormous illegal
kill fueled by a thriving black market
that, in turn, is fueled by commercial
harvest and sale still permitted in Massachusetts,
Rhode Island, New York,
Delaware, Maryland, Virginia and North
Carolina.


Only on those extremely rare
occasions when enforcement agencies
make a major bust does the public begin
to perceive the problem.


We got a glimpse in February 2009 when
five watermen, nabbed by state and federal
undercover agents in a five-year sting
operation, pleaded guilty to poaching $2.1
million worth of striped bass (or something
like 600,000 fish) from Chesapeake
Bay and the Potomac River and illegally
selling the fish to wholesalers with whom
they conspired to generate phony receipts.
Many more arrests are expected.
Hurtful as they are, at least the commercial
striper fisheries in Maryland and
Virginia target mostly small, nonmigratory
males.


Elsewhere breeding stock is being
slammed. By far the biggest commercial
slaughter occurs off Massachusetts,
where half the population of Atlantic
striped bass summers. The Massachusetts
commercial season (by rod-and-reel) is
perpetuated by Paul Diodati, director of
the commonwealth’s Division of Marine
Fisheries, over the objections of anglers
along the entire coast save about 4,000 in
Massachusetts who pay only $65 to sell
bass at least 34 inches in length.

[plugginpete]

W

hen last I complained about the

Massachusetts “recremercial”
striper season, as it is called in striper
conservation circles (see “Plundering
Stripers,” FR&R January/February 2007),
we got a nastygram from one of the most
articulate, dedicated and effective striper
activists on the East Coast (“Mort,” I’ll
call him) blasting me mostly for calling
Massachusetts “commercial striper fishermen”
recreational anglers in disguise.


We’d have run the letter had we not


published an even angrier, longer screed



from the Recreational Fishing Alliance,
which I’d offended by reporting facts
it didn’t want to know. So I’ll take this
opportunity to jointly make an important
point and respond to Mort:
Dear Mort:


Even the “real Ted Williams,”

as I have heard him called to my
chagrin, didn’t bat 1,000. So I’ll comfort
myself in the knowledge that you have
approved of my past striper articles (and,
in fact, been quoted in most). You might
have approved of this one too had you
not missed the central point.


You are correct
that those who legally sell stripers in
Massachusetts are called “commercial
fishermen.” But I’ll remind you of Abe
Lincoln’s observation: “If you call a tail
a leg, how many legs does a dog have?”
Five? “No. Four. Because calling a tail a
leg doesn’t make it a leg.” The Massachusetts
commercial striper season is a
grotesque charade performed, with few
if any exceptions, by recreational anglers
who take advantage of backward management
by the Massachusetts Division of
Marine Fisheries.

[plugginpete]

At the stubborn insistence
of that agency’s director recreational
anglers can send in their lousy $65 and
kill off and carry breeding-age females at
the rate of 30 per day.
Director Diodati at least gets an “A” for
honesty. Unlike the recremercial fishermen
he caters to, he doesn’t pretend the season
is legitimate. “The commercial [striper]
fishery,” he writes, “has also changed by
attracting thousands of non-traditional
participants who are lured by the thought
of subsidizing an expensive hobby.”
In 2008, Massachusetts recremercial
fishermen reported landing 1,157,814
pounds of striped bass, 104.5 percent of
their quota. Of the 3,599 who purchased
permits only 1,207 reported landing even
one fish.


“You know that’s BS,” declares Brad
Burns of Stripers Forever. “Those other
2,392 guys didn’t buy their permits just
to look at them. All they have to do
is fork over that money, and they can
legally transport up to 30 big striped
bass at a time. Instead of requiring tags
Massachusetts uses the
honor system. It escapes
any reasonable thinking
to imagine that there isn’t
terrible abuse. On top of
not wanting to report
their catch and hitting their quota they
want to avoid income taxes. Only 102
[recremercials] reported catching at least
3,000 pounds of stripers which, at $3 a
pound, is $9,000 in gross income.”
Massachusetts Rep. Matt Patrick
(D-Falmouth) has recently introduced HD
245, a bill that would ban “commercial
harvesting and sale of wild striped bass”
in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts,
reduce the recreational bag limit from
two to one fish per day, and impose a
slot limit between 20 and 26 inches or
over 40 inches. (While a locked slot limit
can severely damage weak year classes,
Patrick tells me he’ll talk to managers and
keep an open mind about making necessary
amendments.)


This desperately needed bill has the recremercials
shrieking like Sabine virgins.
“We are deeply concerned about what
we consider to be the privatization of our
rights of access to the resources we all
own and the current trend towards private
ownership of our fisheries,” proclaims the
Cape and Islands Inshore Fishermen’s
Association under the apt site logo of
a striper inside a red circle and crossed
out by a red line. “This bill will do little
more than place 100 percent of the access
to striped bass in Massachusetts into the
hands of an elitist group.”


The association goes on to bemoan possible
loss of the public’s “right” to walk
into any fish market and purchase wild
stripers, this despite the fact that farmraised,
white-bass-striper hybrids are
readily available for about the same price
(an indication that there is little difference
in flavor), are available all year instead of
The Massachusetts
commercial striper season
is a grotesque charade...


just summer and contain few of the PCBs
that have led to health advisories from
Maine to North Carolina for consumption
of wild stripers. Men and boys aren’t
supposed to eat wild striped bass more
than once a month; and young girls and
women who are pregnant or may get that
way should consider never eating them.

[plugginpete]

Why do commercial fishermen, recreational
anglers pretending to be
commercial fishermen and their state
and ASMFC facilitators and apologists
imagine that people who don’t fish have
a “right” to eat wild stripers? If such a
right exists, should not the general public
also be able to purchase wild black bass,
wild brook trout, wild Atlantic salmon,
wild deer, wild moose, wild ducks, wild
doves, wild turkeys, wild woodcock and
wild grouse?


Virtually no species of commercially
harvested fish is in good shape, stripers
included. Commercial striper harvest
doesn’t make sense morally, biologically
or economically.


But all efforts in the U.S.
Congress to make striped bass a gamefish
get shouted down by commercial interests.


It’s hardly a radical notion; 6 of the
12 states under ASMFC management
have already done it.
Director Diodati of the Massachusetts
Division of Marine Fisheries avers that
Rep. Patrick’s bill hasn’t got a chance, and
maybe he’s right. But when, echoing his
fellow managers coastwide, he assures all
hands that the stock of America’s most
important marine gamefish “continues
to look good,” maybe—in fact, probably—
he’s wrong.


In any case, I can’t help
recalling the record of his and other state
agencies in the days when Congress used
to let them set their own standards for
striper management. And I can’t help
recalling the famous defense uttered by
Chico Marx in the face of both anecdotal
and prima facie evidence: “Who you
gonna believe, me or your own eyes?”

[stripercrazy]

This is not a population

survey; it is strictly a tagging operation.
Still, it’s a good indicator of abundance.
Since 1990 the best catch was 6,275 fish
in the year 2000; the worst was 147 in
2009. The average from 1987 to 2006
was 2,212, but the average for the last
three years was 516.


Even if the anecdotal evidence that
the fish are just hanging out elsewhere is
accurate, something is terribly amiss—
most likely a lack of food in their historic
range. Grossly malnourished bass showing
up in ever increasing numbers, especially
in Chesapeake Bay, which produces 75
percent of the coastal population, would
seem to confirm this.


I have never understood why managers
think they can minister to a predator
without taking care of its prey.



Wow, sobering figures, even if they're only from one area of North Carolina. :learn:

[mick2360]

The bottom line is that the menhadden are being slaughtered to make fish oil capsules. Without prey fish, stripers will soon be a rarity, once again. What a shame. :burn:

[finchaser]

The bottom line is that the menhadden are being slaughtered to make fish oil capsules. Without prey fish, stripers will soon be a rarity, once again. What a shame. :burn:

There are more bunker around than there have been in years ,we were out yesterday and saw bunker schools that ran for miles. some of these schools were top to bottom in 60 feet of water on the recorder. There biggest threat was dolphins.

One of the main problems is in Virginia and NC they net big fish all winter. The real shame is when the fish start to migrate, the snag and drop guys are there to greet them killing the big breeders to fill ego's. Lagoons and dumpsters are full of big dead whole fish that are discarded. Most people don't have coolers big enough to keep them fresh so they are dumped over board at the dock after the photo shoot. Many marinas, do to this, do not allow carcasses of any kind to to be thrown in the water any longer.
The amount of bass around could never eat the amount of bunker that are around.

The massacre of big fish each spring now is far worse than prior to the collapse just before the moratoriums went into effect. Just do to the amount of so called anglers and things like bonus tags for 28" fish things are going down hill fast.

So if bass become a rarity again it will be do to man not the lack of bunker for food ,and lets not forget the sand eel explosion the last 2 years. The main reason the blue fish are not really on the bunker schools. There is plenty of food around for bass to eat were just killing them faster than they can reproduce. the big fish that are being killed today are from the moratorium breeding years:(

[DarkSkies]

One of the main problems is in Virginia and NC they net big fish all winter. The real shame is when the fish start to migrate, the snag and drop guys are there to greet them killing the big breeders to fill ego's. Lagoons and dumpsters are full of big dead whole fish that are discarded. Most people don't have coolers big enough to keep them fresh so they are dumped over board at the dock after the photo shoot. Many marinas, do to this, do not allow carcasses of any kind to to be thrown in the water any longer.

The massacre of big fish each spring now is far worse than prior to the collapse just before the moratoriums went into effect. Just do to the amount of so called anglers and things like bonus tags for 28" fish things are going down hill fast.


There is plenty of food around for bass to eat were just killing them faster than they can reproduce. the big fish that are being killed today are from the moritoium breeding years:(


Great points, finchaser. :clapping:

Whenever I have a large problem looming in front of me, I always try to solve it by taking it one step at a time. If so many guys say they are concerned about the future of bass, how many would be in agreement in entirely eliminating the 28" bonus bass tags? It wouldn't be much, but at least it would be a start. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon3.gif

Is there anyone here who might know who to talk to, or how to get this organized, to see if we have a consensus of support to begin this process?

[stripercrazy]

Great points, finchaser. :clapping:

, how many would be in agreement in entirely eliminating the 28" bonus bass tags? It wouldn't be much, but at least it would be a start. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon3.gif



I think you guys in Jersey are wack to begin with, How the sportsmen didn't fight to have that 28" bonus tag struck down I'll never know. We have to put up with one bass at 28" and one over 40", which means that most guys only keep one bass unless they're on a charter boat. So why can't that be the limit coastwide, one at 28" and one at 40", no bonus tags even for charters? And the charters should all be required to follow the same regs, no extra becasue they have a boat. I think the most distasteful thing to me as a sportsman is that I have to follow the regs for my state, while other states have different regs, as finchaser said. It really should be uniform, maybe then we can all rally together and feel like we're actually making some progress. My .02.

[bababooey]

I picked up some interesting stats sifting through that-


1.Two of the best and most experienced striper guides on the East Coast are Capt. Doug Jowett and Capt. David Blinken. Jowett, who has the perspective of guiding both in Maine and Massachusetts, offers this: “My contacts all the way to North Carolina are singing the same song—striped-bass fishing is in dramatic decline due to poor numbers
of fish in every year class out there.


The decline isn’t just a one-year event. The biomass and year-class distribution have been declining for the past five years.

2. And this from Blinken, who guides in New York and Massachusetts with forays into Rhode Island and Connecticut: “I think stripers are in massive decline. I saw fewer fish on the flats in 2008 than in any of the 17 years I’ve been guiding. Montauk (N.Y.) fishing was magical, but if you distribute those fish across the [migratory] range, that’s not a lot.

3.
A:First, the managers need to sharply reduce the fishing mortality
rate, which (because they’ve plugged it into a logarithmic equation) they call “F.” But convincing ASMFC to do this is a task no less challenging than summoning Neptune from the deep. Currently F is .31, which
equates to removal of maybe 27 percent of the population. That’s above what the managers claim to be the safe target of .30 but below what they claim to be the danger threshold of .34. It’s a tight squeeze, but
this is how managers think—maximize protein extraction.
This shows that the ASMFC is not managing for the future, they are managing for yield.http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.gif

B:However, ASMFC allows a large harvest of smaller fish in the producer areas. That doesn’t get you there. You can’t kill fish twice—when they’re young and when they’re old. You’d be surprised how many
managers want to do this. They want to maintain a high population level, which implies lowering F, then allow this smorgasbord of size and bag-limit slots up and down the coast so you can’t see what the population’s doing.

4. By far the biggest commercial slaughter occurs off Massachusetts,
where half the population of Atlantic striped bass summers.
At the stubborn insistence of that agency’s director recreational
anglers can send in their lousy $65 and kill off and carry breeding-age females at the rate of 30 per day....“The commercial [striper] fishery,” he writes, “has also changed by attracting thousands of non-traditional
participants who are lured by the thought of subsidizing an expensive hobby.”...All they have to do is fork over that money, and they can
legally transport up to 30 big striped bass at a time. Instead of requiring tags Massachusetts uses the honor system. It escapes any reasonable thinking to imagine that there isn’t terrible abuse. On top of not wanting to report their catch and hitting their quota they want to avoid income taxes. Only 102 [recremercials] reported catching at least 3,000 pounds of stripers which, at $3 a pound, is $9,000 in gross income.”

(Only 102 out or 3000 registered commercial anglers reported catching at least 3000lbs of stripers? What about the other 2898? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that some of these guys are underreporting their catches.)


Eye opening.:wow:http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.gif

[fishinmission78]

:clapping:I'm in, like stripercrazy said tho, as long as it applies to everybody I'm good with it.

[lostatsea]

:thumbsup: I'm in too, eliminate the bonus tags, and maybe go back to a slot limit. finchaser, would a slot limit work to bring the numbers back up, in your opinion? why or why not?

[BassBuddah]

I don't think this will ever be resolved until we're all on the same page. Finchaser you talked about the winter commercial fishery down south. Any ideas how that will or can be modified? The commercial lobby is strong. I don't see how you can or will defeat it. I think concessions are reasonable and will have to be made by the commercials if they want to survive, but as to the possibility of ever shutting it down? I think you have a better chance of brokering peace with the Arabs and Jews.:kooky:

[finchaser]

I think you guys in Jersey are wack to begin with, How the sportsmen didn't fight to have that 28" bonus tag struck down I'll never know. We have to put up with one bass at 28" and one over 40", which means that most guys only keep one bass unless they're on a charter boat. So why can't that be the limit coastwide, one at 28" and one at 40", no bonus tags even for charters? And the charters should all be required to follow the same regs, no extra becasue they have a boat. I think the most distasteful thing to me as a sportsman is that I have to follow the regs for my state, while other states have different regs, as finchaser said. It really should be uniform, maybe then we can all rally together and feel like we're actually making some progress. My .02.

Couldn't agree more:thumbsup::thumbsup: protects the most prolific breeders

[wish4fish]

bonus tags are bogus they just let the guys with the boats cheat when ever they want:burn:

[albiealert]

I picked up some interesting stats sifting through that-




4. By far the biggest commercial slaughter occurs off Massachusetts,
where half the population of Atlantic striped bass summers.
At the stubborn insistence of that agency’s director recreational
anglers can send in their lousy $65 and kill off and carry breeding-age females at the rate of 30 per day....“The commercial [striper] fishery,” he writes, “has also changed by attracting thousands of non-traditional
participants who are lured by the thought of subsidizing an expensive hobby.”...All they have to do is fork over that money, and they can
legally transport up to 30 big striped bass at a time. Instead of requiring tags Massachusetts uses the honor system. It escapes any reasonable thinking to imagine that there isn’t terrible abuse. On top of not wanting to report their catch and hitting their quota they want to avoid income taxes. Only 102 [recremercials] reported catching at least 3,000 pounds of stripers which, at $3 a pound, is $9,000 in gross income.”

(Only 102 out or 3000 registered commercial anglers reported catching at least 3000lbs of stripers? What about the other 2898? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that some of these guys are underreporting their catches.)


Eye opening.:wow:http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.gif








I always thought this was just ridiculous. I think they called it spot on, it is a way for some hard-core fishermen to subsidize a hobby. How can you ensure those 3000 guys will all follow the honor system? There is no way to do that, it's impossible to expect accurate reporting from more than a small percentage.

This would be like if we let all the senators and representatives vote on their own personal pay increases in Congress. Oh, I forgot, we already do that. :rolleyes: And do you see how high the budget is in Congress? Same principle, there can't be more than a smattering of honesty among the 3000 reporting their catches. It's human nature.

[williehookem]

ok I like the uniform size limits for the whole coast. How in the world could this even be a possibility? It seems like each state has their political committees and lobbyists that say how big they want the size limit to be, and the ASMMC takes that into consideration?

[CharlieTuna]

It seems like the decline of the fishery is no longer a rumor, but now a regular topic of conversation on all the blogs and news feeds. You definitely picked a good topic when you started this last year, Joe.:thumbsup: BTW, hope you are doing ok, I haven't seen you post in awhile. Hope everyone in your family is well.

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by Captain Dave Monti
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Mike Shepard, one of Aquidneck Island's great shore and boat anglers, recently reminded me of the controversy surrounding the vitality of the recreational striped bass fishery. Mike shared the article “Striper Signals” from the July/September 2009 issue of Fly Rod & Reel magazine. The article is written by Ted Williams the conservation writer, not Ted Williams the ball player.

In a nut shell Mr. Williams contends that state and federal governments are not doing enough to protect the striped bass fishery, they think it is doing fine. He believes that catch limits, commercial fishing of the species and their primary food (Atlantic menhaden), malnourished fish and disease are all playing a role in a declining striped bass population.

Williams points to preliminary 2008 recreational striped bass catch data where east coast anglers landed (released or killed) 14,107,835 fish, which was the worst year since 2000.

Additionally, Williams sites the annual U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service’s annual cooperative trawling operation on wintering striped bass off North Carolina. The tagging operation reports that since 1990 the best catch was 6,275 fish, the worst was 147 in 2009 and the average for the last three years was 516. Fishing guides and experts are also making claims of a declining striped bass fishery.

Of particularly interest to me, is the claim that striped bass are starving when they winter in Chesapeake Bay because of a reduced supply of Atlantic menhaden (their primary food) due to commercial over fishing. This brought to mind the story of the menhaden boat working the upper Providence River this spring muscling between recreational fishing boats and taking the bait (Atlantic Menhaden) as twenty or so recreational fisherman looked on in disbelief.

Lack of food has been substantiated by tag-recapture data studies from spring spawning grounds in Maryland and Virginia. Fish captured in autumn are the same size as fish that are starved in a lab for two months Williams relates. Malnutrition makes the population vulnerable to mycobacteriosis, a disease that causes loss of scales, skin ulcers, severe weight loss and lesions. Officials estimate that sixty to seventy-five percent of the striped bass in Chesapeake Bay are infected.


How can we help preserve the striped bass fishery?

We can do a couple of things to preserve the striped bass fishery. First we can all practice catch and release more often, particularly with larger fish which tend to be egg bearing females. We can also advocate at the State and National level, for better fishery management of striped bass and their primary food, the Atlantic menhaden.

Links for more information: Ted William’s blog www.flyrodreel.com ; the Rhode Island Saltwater Anglers Association’s www.risaa.org ; William & Mary’s Virginia Institute of Marine Science at www.vims.edu .

[lostatsea]

This guy is a marine biologist. Listen to where he says "when a fish is twice a big, it doesn't lay twice as many eggs, it lays 10 times as many eggs". Food for thought.
kE6f1mWX

http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/01/fishing-lessons/?hp
September 1, 2009, 8:36 am
Fishing Lessons
By Andrew C. Revkin (http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/author/andrew-c-revkin/)


http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kE6f1mWXceo/hqdefault.jpg



While on an offline break last week (http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/24/blackberries-the-edible-kind-and-breaks/) camping behind the dunes in Montauk, N.Y., I was able to get offshore for a few hours with Carl Safina (http://www.blueocean.org/), a marine biologist and conservationist (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/24/science/24conv.html?ex=1319342400&en=44bd1d1f9d280aa8&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss) who’s also a passionate angler.
I grew up loving fishing (even writing a song about a six-pound largemouth bass (http://music.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=music.popupplayer&sindex=-1.8&shuffle=false&amix=false&pmix=false&plid=4432&artid=7546545&profid=324227954&friendid=324227954&sseed=0&ptype=3&stime=2.272&ap=1&rpeat=false) I caught in “a little patch of paradise, surrounded by suburban sprawl”). But I never caught (and released) something almost four feet long until this short sunset trip, when slab-sided striped bass (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Striped%20bass%20fishing) seemed to be waiting 40 feet beneath our boat no matter where we stopped.
In the video above, Dr. Safina explains the merits of leaving the biggest fish in the sea, noting that the largest females, like a 40-pounder he wrestled to the boat, produce 10 times as many eggs as fish half their size. You can chuckle as I heft a 46-inch bass I hauled in after it nearly hauled me into the water.
Some might snip that releasing lunkers only makes sense in a wealthy place like the United States, where your next meal isn’t something you have to catch. But from Caribbean islands like St. Lucia (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/12/1204_TVmarinereserves.html) to the Bering Sea (http://www.msc.org/track-a-fishery/certified/pacific/bsai-pollock), fishing communities are learning that a balanced effort — leaving breeding-size fish uncaught or breeding spots untouched — is the best path to healthy harvests.
Of course, many fisheries around the world remain in crisis, particularly the bluefin tuna (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/03/science/earth/03tuna.html?ex=1272772800&en=1575e23e99e02cde&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss), a longtime focus of Dr. Safina. And we do still have a fixation with size that impedes a variety of conservation efforts. (Biologists say deer hunters could better manage overabundance (http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/29/us/states-seek-to-restore-deer-balance.html) by targeting does instead of the biggest bucks.) Back at the dock in Montauk, the marina — like many — had a board listing the largest fish taken, not the biggest catches of midsize fish. No surprise. There’s a deep-rooted human tendency to glorify the biggest. That largemouth I caught around 1968 is now a tattered bit of taxidermy.
Dr. Safina is trying to show you can feed that passion and, by letting the biggest specimens go, still have fish in the sea (or pond) for a long time to come.
Another option is to get your wall trophy the 21st-century way, ordering a pre-fab fish replica to size (http://www.nytimes.com/2000/02/13/nyregion/how-to-catch-a-trophy-fish-and-not-go-near-the-water.html), instead of the skin-on-plaster variety. No cheating on the size, though, okay?

[Jackbass]

This guy is a marine biologist. Listen to where he says "when a fish is twice a big, it doesn't lay twice as many eggs, it lays 10 times as many eggs". Food for thought.


Makes Slot Limits seem like a good idea doesn't it?

[DarkSkies]

I thought it might be good to research some articles for this thread, since commercial striped bass fishing, by nature of its visibility, is angering some people. In another post I explained the numbers of bass killed by commercial fishermen was less than the total killed by recreational fishermen.

Here we have a new problem which I thought people should be aware of, the increasing efforts of commercial fishermen to expand into areas that IMO should be restricted.

I want to go on record as saying this is not playing 2 sides of the fence here. I want us as recreational fishermen to be aware of the strain we as an aggregate of anglers are placing on the striped bass biomass. At the same time, while I have defended commercial fishing, I want to be able to speak out when I think their intentions will be harmful as well.

I know this stuff may seem boring and not worth your time. However, I would ask anyone who click on this thread to at least read a few posts here, think if it makes sense based on your experiences, and then educate yourself, do more research, to see if what is being said here is possibly true. :learn:

If it is true, you can get involved and learn more before it's too late, or you can let "the other guys" do all the work for you, and not take any of the blame if our striped bass stocks suffer. :don't know why:

I know that might sound extreme to some, but that is what I'm seeing with my eyes.

Every day as administrator of this site, I'm fortunate to run into more and more anglers who have decades of fishing experience. Conversations with them convince me that it makes sense to talk about this stuff before it's too late. Thanks for looking, people. :HappyWave: :thumbsup:









http://morningsentinel.mainetoday.com/news/local/6998213.html

Striped bass in peril, observers say
BY JOHN RICHARDSON http://morningsentinel.mainetoday.com/images/kjmscredit.gif 10/20/2009



BY JOHN RICHARDSON
Portland Press Herald

A proposal to expand the commercial catch of striped bass in the Chesapeake Bay region could threaten Maine's most valuable coastal sport fish, say anglers, fishing guides and state officials.
Striper fishing along the Maine coast was off this summer for a second straight year, they say, and concerns are growing that the recreational fishery could face a painful decline.

"I'm worried," said Doug Jowett, a guide who takes customers fishing in Casco Bay and off Cape Cod. "It's going to be declining steadily because nothing is being done to improve it."

Maine is one of several states that prohibit commercial fishing for stripers as they migrate up and down the East Coast. Here, the fish is the primary attraction for coastal anglers, who spend $25 million to $30 million in a typical summer on everything from gasoline to bait and artificial lures, according to the state.

Under a rule change proposed by the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission, commercial fishing operations in other states would be allowed to carry over some of their quota from one year to the next. If boats didn't catch the full quota one year, under the rule change, they would be allowed to add to their quota for the next year.

The commission is scheduled to vote on the proposal Nov. 2 in Newport, R.I., after reviewing a yet-to-be released report on the health of the striper population.

Fishermen in Maine may see a decline related to spawning in Chesapeake Bay, but the striper population is not considered to be in immediate trouble, said Nichola Meserve, a fishery management coordinator for the multistate fisheries commission. "The stock is not overfished," she said.

A subcommittee of the commission concluded that the rule change would increase the overall annual catch only about 1.7 percent. That's because most stripers are caught and killed by recreational anglers, who aren't limited by annual quotas, Meserve said.
In 2006, for example, recreational fishermen landed about 29 million pounds of striped bass and commercial boats landed about 7 million pounds. The numbers do not include fish caught and thrown back.

The numbers have not reassured Maine anglers or state officials, who say there are clear warning signs that it is the wrong time to expand the commercial catch, especially in Chesapeake Bay.
"The stock assessment is not showing us doom and gloom, but the anecdotal information from fishermen is showing us otherwise," said Patrick Keliher, director of sea-run fisheries and habitat for the Maine Department of Marine Resources.
In Maine, anglers caught about 49,000 stripers -- 238,000 pounds -- in 2008. It was the second-smallest catch in Maine in the decade, and a 31 percent drop from the year before.

Guides and fishermen say the fishing this summer was somewhat better, but still much slower than in previous years. Business has dropped so much as a result, Jowett said, that several guides have gone out of business.

What worries people most is that the number of young fish has dropped fastest. That suggests catches will continue to shrink.
"That seems to be a consensus up and down the whole coast. There just aren't that many little fish around," Jowett said.
The drop in younger fish is believed to be tied to reduced production in Chesapeake Bay, the primary spawning and nursery area for the fish.

There is growing concern in the Chesapeake Bay region about a deadly fish disease called mycobacteriosis, although its effects on the population are still not clear.

The Chesapeake is one of the areas where commercial fishermen would be able to carry over their unused quotas under the proposed rule change.

"We'll certainly be voting against" the proposal, said Terry Stockwell, director of external affairs for the Maine Department of Marine Resources and a member of the regional fisheries commission. The proposal is the latest in a series of incremental increases in fishing pressure, he said.

"Now is not the time, when it seems that there's something wrong," he said. The Maine catch is considered a bellweather for the health of the striped bass population, Stockwell said, "and we don't have a robust fishery anymore."

[DarkSkies]

"Now is not the time, when it seems that there's something wrong," he said. The Maine catch is considered a bellweather for the health of the striped bass population, Stockwell said, "and we don't have a robust fishery anymore."


^ If you don't feel like reading the whole article above, here is the statement that is most important to me.

Maine is the state that is on the edge of the "bowl of M&M's". :learn:
What is the M&M's theory?

It's not mine. It was coined long ago at another site, by a guy who was very concerned with what he thought was a decline in striped bass catches. I think his name was RichS.

I've since lost contact with him, but I believe he deserves the credit for this term. :thumbsup: It is used throughout the internet in arguing how there could be less bass when some people are experiencing their best years ever.

To paraphrase it, the way I originally understood it, is that the biomass of striped bass can be thought of as a bowl of M&M's. The edges of the migration, Maine to North Carolina, can be thought of as edges of the bowl.

Just because there was a banner year in the spring at Island Beach State Park in NJ, or the jetty areas of Monmouth County, or the rich spring and summer bunker based fishing off the coast of LI, with Montauk and Block Island having good catches for party and charter boats, all one needs to do is consider that these places are in the middle of the bowl, where there is not much hope of noticing if someone "ate" more than was expected. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon3.gif

Where you see this most dramatically is on the edges, or Maine and Virginia. Maine has suffered declining catches in recent years, and the Chesapeake is faced with problems of mycobacteriosis and overfishing, which is further putting a strain on the stock and its future potential.

In one of the posts before mine, someone illustrates quite well the problems they are having in the Chesapeake and Virginia area.

Why the heck should I be concerned with the fishing in Maine or Va, you might ask me?

Because here is where you will notice the declines first and most dramatically.

I'm asking you people to go back and at least read the few pages before this and consider what these people, many of whom have way more experience than me, are saying. At least skim the Ted Williams article, which begins on post #20.

If you disagree, please share that with us as well, but back up your opinion with real-life experience, so others can read and form their own opnions. Thanks. :thumbsup:

[bababooey]

edges[/b], or Maine and Virginia. Maine has suffered declining catches in recent years, and the Chesapeake is faced with problems of mycobacteriosis and overfishing, which is further putting a strain on the stock and its future potential.

In one of the posts before mine, someone illustrates quite well the problems they are having in the Chesapeake and Virginia area.

Why the heck should I be concerned with the fishing in Maine or Va, you might ask me?

Because here is where you will notice the declines first and most dramatically.



:thumbsup: Right on Dark. Check out the latest YOY press release by StripersForever ---


Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:01 pm Post subject: Press Release: Stripers Forever: YoY dissapointing again

October 21, 2009

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



The annual young-of-the-year striped bass survey recently released by the Maryland Department of Natural Resources (MD DNR) reflects reports received by Stripers Forever during the 2009 season of a deteriorating recreational striper fishery from Maine to North Carolina.

Stripers Forever is an internet-based conservation organization which advocates managing the striped bass as a game fish by eliminating all commercial harvest of wild stripers.

“The graphic released with the MD DNR report depicts the numbers of striped bass spawned in the Chesapeake Bay,” says Brad Burns, president of Stripers Forever. “Since most stripers that migrate north and south along the coast are born in the Chesapeake Bay, the MD DNR graphic indicates how future runs of stripers along the Atlantic Coast will measure up. [B]The outlook for the species is not an optimistic one.”


http://www.flyfishinginmaine.com/assets/sf.gif


David Ross PhD -- a scientist, Stripers Forever board member, and longtime striped bass angler -- adds the following comments on the MD DNR report:



“The MD DNR has been doing this young-of-the-year survey for over 50 years and the resulting numbers are thought to be a good indication of spawning success. However, the trend of the recent data (from 2001 to 2009) seems to be more of a measure of spawning failure.

“Scientists, including fishery biologists and oceanographers like me, will often come up with reasons or hypotheses to explain unexpected changes or anomalies in their data. But for fishermen, these reasons have little importance – the fish are either there or not.

“I suspect that some fishery managers will see reasons to be optimistic about the recent data. Others, especially those not involved with the MD DNR, should see reasons for concern. If you look at the index from 2001, it has to be evident to even the most optimistic observer that the trend of the index is heading south – quickly.

“It really does not matter what the reasons are- -- the recent spawning numbers are not good. Look again at the graph: the highs (50.75 to 7.9 – an 84 percent drop) and lows (4.73 to 3.2 – a 32 percent drop) are clearly declining.

How can this be good for the future of the striped bass?” --- David Ross PhD.



For further information, contact Brad Burns by e-mail at stripers@whatifnet.com.

[captnemo]

Some NMFS/ NOAA catch data for you guys

http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/st1/recreational/queries/catch/snapshot.html

[stripermania]

The catch data had good information. Striped bass is becoming more depleted year after year. IMO we have to do something now about it.

[DarkSkies]

I've been getting phone calls from long-time striped bass surf fishermen lately. A lot of them are tired of ranting and don't feel anyone would be willing to listen to them anymore, so I get to hear it.

I'm not complaining, I welcome those calls. This helps to give me a unique perspective as to what the fishing used to be like 30 years ago. When guys like Finchaser, Clamchucker, Surfwalker, Stripercoast1, the OFFC, or others who have been fishing 40 solid or more years say the fishing is good, that's credible.

When they talk about how fishing numbers are way down compared to what they used to be, those comments should have equal credibility. If you believe these guys are competent, then you should also be willing to believe what they're saying about the fishing today vs 20-30 years ago, and why we should be at least a little concerned.

[DarkSkies]

What fishing used to be like, Stripercoast1 aka Gunny:

(Gunny runs www.stripercoastsurfcasters.us (http://www.stripercoastsurfcasters.us) a growing group of hardcore surfcasters with an eye on conservation, aligning themselves with www.stripersforever.com (http://www.striperrsforever.com) and other groups in their fight to preserve the striped bass fishery.)

"When people talk about striped bass fishing and how they had a "blitz" for an hour, I realize there is a lot to teach people out there. We used to fish Cape Cod and the Mass area many years ago. Those were the nights when you were careful who you told about the fishing. There would usually be a small group of us dedicated guys out there for any given night when the bite was on.

And on it was! We would have times in the spring or fall at Race Point when the striped bass "blitz" stretched for 7 or 8 miles. We would have huge bass right in the surf at our feet. If they were on heavy bait concentrations, all you had to do was toss out a bucktail, or pick up a piece of fresh bait as the fish pushed the bait ashore. Toss out your bucktail, or that fresh bait, and you would have a fish in a matter of a minute.

These blitzes would last for a day or more sometime, and we all got our fill of fish. Sometimes I realize it was too many, and that probably contributed to the decline, because everyone acted the same way."



Fishing as it exists today:

"Guys are killing a lot more of the big breeders. For example, this summer there was a huge concentration of big bass off Block Island. Guys were taking out the 6 pack charters as much as twice a day, and coming back with their limit each time. These are 40 and 50lb bass we are talking about, taking up to 20 years to reach that size. Yet guys killed them day after day. Huge numbers of these bass were taken out of the biomass from Block Island this year. I have to believe that will affect the biomass and future spawning numbers. There's no way it would not affect the population.

In Rhode Island where I fish a lot we have always had good seasons for catching big striped bass from the surf. The bays, rivers, and estuaries hold tremendous amounts of bait, many varieties, shrimp, small whitebait, bunker, huge amounts of squid, and lobster. Yet we noticed the fishing was off, there were less big bass around.

I have seen the decline of catches with my own eyes. It's only a matter of time before it shows up in the official numbers. If we don't do something about it soon, we will be definitely be facing another moratorium on striped bass fishing."

[DarkSkies]

(guys let me know if I need to make any corrections to these)

Fin:
He tells me on a daily basis how they used to catch bass by the dozens, large, and in all year classes. Bluefish used to be so abundant they would fill 110Qt coolers with them to the point where people got sick of catching them. There was no idea out there that either bluefish or striped bass stock should be conserved. People used to fertilize their gardens with unwanted fish.

Then the stocks declined, slowly at first, until there was a noticable decline, and you were only catching fish in the "middle areas" (M&M theory). The edges of the M&M bowl were empty, and they instituted the moratorium.

He sees that same thing happening to the stocks today because people refuse to acknowledge that there is greater participation in fishing, more fish are being kept, and people are wasting plenty of large breeder fish just for the photo ops at the tackle shops.

He has seen wasted 40# bass that were left out in the sun, dumped into marina dumpsters. He may seem like he rants and raves a lot, but that's because he's passionate about these fish he loves to catch, and doesn't want to see history repeat itself. Pick his brain anytime ya want, he has the stats and figures to back it up!

As related by Finchaser:
Fishing before the moratorium:

"There were so many fish back then, it would take 3 or 4 days for one body of fish to pass by in the spring or fall. If you missed those, there would be another wave of fish right after that. That's why when people talk today about how they had fish for hours, it maks me shake my head. Fishing today is nothing like it used to be before the moratorium.

Fall run, 1980's:
A fall run back then was like a sustained fishing dream. Blitzes lasted for days, not 22 minutes. You could go fishing in the morning, catch some fish, go to work, come out on your lunch break, catch some more fish, go back to work, come home and eat dinner, and still go out to catch more fish, until your arms were really tired."

[DarkSkies]

Some anonymous recollections of others:

1. A friend called me today and told me how they used to go up to Cape Cod because huge numbers of bass used to pass by there on the migration. He told me of thousands of bass rolling in the surf, 30-40 years ago. As Gunny said, all you had to do was toss a piece of bait or a bucktail out, and you were into fish in the 30# class. They were all over the place. :plastered: :wow:




2. Another friend told me he has a friend living in New Brunswick, near Canada. The bass used to come there by the thousands as part of their northern migration as they passed the state of Maine. His friend hasn't had a good year for striped bass in many years. Is it a case that they just don't move that far north any more, or is it the case that there are less bass to go around?

Only you people can answer these questions for yourself. Do the research, there is a wealth of material in this thread.




3. Another friend has a problem with the lack of bluefish in the surf, especially as represented by the smaller year classes. I used to fish with these guys as recently as 5 years ago, and we had times when we would get numbers in the 30's and 40's of bluefish caught and released, several times a week, for the spring run. That hasn't happened to the extent it used to. People say the bluefish are all offshore on the offshore bait.

What about the edges of the bowl, the M&M theory? Isn't it possible it could be a factor here as well? http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon3.gif

Of course, lots of people hate bluefish, and don't care. Many guys who fish from boats will dispute it, and tell you it's unreasonable to say this. There are miles and mils of bluefish just offshore, they will say. I agree that's what they're seeing, so I understand how they would dispute a hypothesis that there are less around. As mentioned, the surf fishermen catch the"overflow" How would you know about this perspective unless you fish from the surf? http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/smilies/don't%20know%20why.gif

Surf fishing traditionally was where you caught the overflow of fish from an abundant biomass. If that biomass is declining, the surf guys would certainly be the first ones to notice it.

Food for thought people, food for thought. :learn:

[DarkSkies]

Sent by Fin, thanks! :HappyWave:


Striped Bass Report

by Ed Cherry & John Toth
(from Jersey Coast Anglers Association December 2009 Newsletter (http://www.jcaa.org/jcnl0912/Mainpage.htm))

Ed Cherry and John Toth were asked by NJ’s Division of Fish & Wildlife to serve as advisors on a committee to look at possible new alternatives to the present regulations concerning striped bass. The current regulation mandates that anglers can keep two striped bass over 28 inches.

The problem with this regulation appears that we are taking too many of the breeder stock when we catch these big fish. There appears to be a decline in the striped bass stocks and while there is no present danger that the stocks are in serious trouble, we do not want these fish to be in danger like winter flounder.

The following is a table of the alternatives that were shown to us. Only two stripers can still be kept under these alternatives. These alternatives are also equivalent to the projected stock of stripers that are now caught at 28 inches to infinity. The Bonus Tag fish and a slot fish are not included in these alternatives.

18” minimum size and greater - one fish, and a 40” minimum size and greater - one fish
19” minimum size and greater - one fish, and a 38” minimum size and greater - one fish
20” minimum size and greater - one fish, and a 36” minimum size and greater - one fish
21” minimum size and greater - one fish, and a 35” minimum size and greater - one fish
22” minimum size and greater - one fish, and a 34” minimum size and greater - one fish
23” minimum size and greater - one fish, and a 33” minimum size and greater - one fish
24” minimum size and greater - one fish, and a 32” minimum size and greater - one fish


The last alternative is the one that the committee favored. It means that you can catch one fish that has a minimum size of 24 inches to infinity. The second fish has to be a minimum size of 32 inches or to infinity. The thinking here is that so many stripers are caught that are less than 28 inches and we are throwing many of them back and killing a lot of them in the process. If we lower that limit to 24 inches minimum, then we can at least keep one striper and take it home for dinner fare.

These alternatives were discussed at the JCAA’s October’s 27th meeting and representatives were asked to take this information back to their clubs and discuss what alternative they favor or to even stick with the current regulation of two fish over 28 inches. Please bring your comments on striped bass back to the General Membership meeting on November 24th so that we can pass them on to the Department of Fish & Wildlife.


http://www.jcaa.org/jcnl0912/0912SBR.htm

[jonthepain]

I don't get it. The slot limit worked; why not consider it?

I'm in my fifties and have been through a couple of boom and busts. The last (mini) boom followed the institution of slot limits.

That being said, however, I don't think the blues and bass stocks will ever recover without a large forage base. Continuing to decimate the bunker population can only lead to a decline in sport fish stocks, no matter how strict the recreational limits.

[voyager35]

That being said, however, I don't think the blues and bass stocks will ever recover without a large forage base. Continuing to decimate the bunker population can only lead to a decline in sport fish stocks, no matter how strict the recreational limits.

I think that's a good point. I saw that article you posted on the bunker. I can tell you this, we had lots of bunker in NJ this late spring with no bass under them. There were times when I took a run from Barnegat Inlet to Monmouth Beach. We would find dozens of pods of bunker, thousands in a pod, that had no bass on them. Our best success was finding the smaller pods that were isolated and picking a bass or 2 from underneath.
What that says to me is that even though there are less bunker, as the article you posted claims, there are even less bass and bluefish to eat that forage. I remember this happening last year as well. I don't have a recollection of it beiing that bad 10 years ago either.
I don't have an answer here. I do feel there are a lot of good questions raised in this thread. In my view we need more accurate numbers to be sure.

[jonthepain]

I agree with you, however, I've fished under bunker pods during the late 80s without finding any bass.


I think that, like all ecosystems, there are a lot of variables, and a change in one necessarily affects the others.

Luckily, natural systems generally return to an optimum level given a chance. The number of predators increase when the prey levels increase, until they hit the maximum sustainable population.

[DarkSkies]

SC1/Gunny posted this on his site.
www.stripercoastsurfcasters.us (http://www.stripercoastsurfcasters.us)

I thought you might like the perspective of someone who had seen things from both the Commercial side with commercial fishermen in his family, and as a Recreational fisherman who has fished the salt for more than 40 years:


1 The typicle tactic of defending all comms as being honest and above board is still being beaten to death by an individual that either never fishes or talks to another comm, or is completely ignorant to the facts.
The number of fish sold without reporting, AKA, black market, in my opinion, and estimation, is fully equal to the reported catch....

There are way too many recs out there that have no clue as to what is happening right now. I recently talked with a boat owner about the status of Stripers, and he showed exactly what I've been saying for quite some time. He only started fishing for Bass 8 to 10 years ago. He justifies stuffing the seat cushions with fish to offset the cost of fuel. If he doesn't come in with at least 8 fish, the number he designated, then it wasn't worth leaving the ramp.

If I had not lived the crash or maintained the Bass are dollars attitude, I could easily have been making 10 grand or more a year in unreported sales. There were times when I had the boats in the water that temptation was real, and the number of times I was approached would astound you. My reputation, pre internet, was well known on the Island, and I had the same situations my old man dealt with, the armada would follow me and watch through bino's to see what I was doing.




2.
They will divert by placing blame on every other ingrediant in the stew as the cause of less Bass near shore. Same exact arguments they used nearly 30 years ago. Blame everyone else BUT THEMSELVES.
Why is it that no Comm can make a living from the surf the way we did back then. Why is it the acres of Bass no longer blitz the entire point of the Cape, Race Point like they used to? For days on end? It's not just a bait issue, its a numbers issue, those Bass don't exist in the massive schools like days gone by.

[jigfreak]

They should have done more regulations years ago, but unfortunately people did not think about the commercial fishing world of the future. It is all a number issue. If we continue to fish the way we are there will be no fish left. Catch and release rules.

[Stripercoast1]

Many years ago, Bob Pond, owner of Atom Tackle, organized Stripers Unlimited with his own money. He did this because he saw the writing on the wall. It was the beginning of the out of control Menhaden purse seining. He noticed the Bass were getting skinny and were seeking less nutritious forage. Sand eels take more effort for less gain, and were becoming the targeted food source of Bass and Blues along the North East coastal waters. Bass were also addapting to eating any and all available food sources that also take more effort but little gain. Cunner, Sea Robbins, and other rough fish were turning up in the stomachs of Bass on a more than usual occurance. To equate this to human standards, eating a bowl of saw dust will make you feel full, but little or no nutrition is gained.
I remember when Bob would arrive on a beach or the canal, and the attitude was, "Here comes Chicken Little." This was during the 70's and the research he funded was scoffed and belittled. Just a few short years later, all he tried to warn about came to fruition.
The situation now is not any differant from my eyes. We hear the warnings and ***** about lousy catch rates but wait and watch for what someone else is going to do.
The Bunker are not here. The reasons for some areas of the coast to see them, while others have none, are really almost too simple to undestand. New Jersey and New York put in regulatory controls on how and when the Bunker fleet can operate. They could not legally shut them down, so they made it hard for them to operate. North of those 2 states the Bunker are no where near the numbers we once saw. The Bass that locked up on Block this past year were on Scup, AKA Porgie. Scup do not contain the oils and fats that bunker provide for Bass to sustain good health, but in the absence of proper food they are better than nothing.
Call me chicken little if you want, in fact being grouped with Bob Pond would be a badge of honor to me. The crash is coming again, the only thing I wonder, is if we will catch it in time this time.

[plugaholic]

That was a great read stripercoast1. You are correct that people stand buy and watch without getting involved. All of a sudden the bunker are gone, the fish are gone and everyone will be walking around with the foot up their *** wondering what the hell happened. I wish more people would get involved.

[Stripercoast1]

I revisit this thread to post a notice.

Bob Pond died on December 26, 2009.

We owe a great deal to this amazing man.

I own the very last Atom 40 that he pulled from the mold when I came very close to buying the company from him. I visited him the day before he turned the keys over to the folks that beat me out. I asked him to autograph it and it is in a shadow box in my living room.

If you do not know of Bob and the work he did, look into Stripers Unlimited. As I said before he was a man ahead of his time, that showed up just in time.

I'll bet no one ever called him Chicken Little after the moratorium.

[buckethead]

Many years ago, Bob Pond, owner of Atom Tackle, organized Stripers Unlimited with his own money. He did this because he saw the writing on the wall. It was the beginning of the out of control Menhaden purse seining. He noticed the Bass were getting skinny and were seeking less nutritious forage. Sand eels take more effort for less gain, and were becoming the targeted food source of Bass and Blues along the North East coastal waters. Bass were also addapting to eating any and all available food sources that also take more effort but little gain. Cunner, Sea Robbins, and other rough fish were turning up in the stomachs of Bass on a more than usual occurance. To equate this to human standards, eating a bowl of saw dust will make you feel full, but little or no nutrition is gained.
I remember when Bob would arrive on a beach or the canal, and the attitude was, "Here comes Chicken Little." This was during the 70's and the research he funded was scoffed and belittled. Just a few short years later, all he tried to warn about came to fruition.
The situation now is not any differant from my eyes. We hear the warnings and ***** about lousy catch rates but wait and watch for what someone else is going to do.
The Bunker are not here. The reasons for some areas of the coast to see them, while others have none, are really almost too simple to undestand. New Jersey and New York put in regulatory controls on how and when the Bunker fleet can operate. They could not legally shut them down, so they made it hard for them to operate. North of those 2 states the Bunker are no where near the numbers we once saw. The Bass that locked up on Block this past year were on Scup, AKA Porgie. Scup do not contain the oils and fats that bunker provide for Bass to sustain good health, but in the absence of proper food they are better than nothing.
Call me chicken little if you want, in fact being grouped with Bob Pond would be a badge of honor to me. The crash is coming again, the only thing I wonder, is if we will catch it in time this time.


:clapping: Great post, SC1. You could not have said it better if you had a window to the future. How fitting that you should put that up before he passed. You are right, the writing has been on the wall for many years. It is up to us to see that it is there. rip Mr Pond.

[dogfish]

If you do not know of Bob and the work he did, look into Stripers Unlimited. As I said before he was a man ahead of his time, that showed up just in time.

I'll bet no one ever called him Chicken Little after the moratorium.

The Atom 40 became a surf fishing standard, and was copied by many builders. He was ahead of his time. Not many were talking about conservation back then. We lost a good one. RIP.

[stripercrazy]

X2, RIP Mr Pond.

[Stripercoast1]

I knew his passing was only days away, as he has been in tough shape for quite a while. Even knowing this, I could not feel more sadness for a family member as I do now.
He will never die however in my memory, and many of them bring smiles to my face.
He was one of those that carried a presence with him, that even if you did not know him, you knew that you wanted or needed too.
Stripercoast has an award named for him, for the member that displays the most conservation ethic above all others. Until now, it wasn't a memorial award.
Bob Pond will live forever, and I will see to it that future generations know and understand what a truly dynamic individual Bob really was. I hate that word, "was", and hate even more that I have to use it when talking about him now.

[jimbob]

A huge loss, we owe it to Bob Pond to do whatever we can to protect the fisheries.

[DarkSkies]

Thanks for the memories of Bob Pond and the things he was involved in, guys. :thumbsup:

[DarkSkies]

I wonder if fishermen don't seem as concerned about the biomass because the states they fish in for bass seem "fine". It's hard to care about what's happening in Va when you live in NJ,NY, or Mass. People sometimes have difficulty understanding these are the same bass that passed by them. If they were only highly concentrated in 2 places in 2009, what happened to the rest of the millions of bass? What happened to the millions (4 million by some estimates) of bass that spawned in the Hudson River last year? How come fishing at Montauk for the late summer and fall was one of the poorest seasons in recent years?


This was posted earlier in this thread by Captnemo, post #17. I'm posting it again for people to re-visit it. I would like them to consider the great fishing that was to be had off Block Island this year in the summer, or the fantastic fishing now happening off the coast of Va, in light of the real life fishermens' experience and the biologists' statements here:


"Large concentrations of bass in some areas doesn’t necessarily equate to a healthy stock:
Man, there were some crazy striped bass blitzes in Montauk this year. The kind that make you just drop your rod and say “Holy *@$%!”. Truly extraordinary stuff. Understandably, such blitzes might make one believe that striped bass are extremely abundant. Unfortunately that is not the case. In other regions, particularly the Northeast, there are widespread complaints about the lack of quality stripers. In Maine, guides are going out of business because of the very real lack of what was once a thriving fishery.

As guides like Capt. Dave Pecci and Capt. Doug Jowett point out, it’s not due to the lack of forage as there seems to be abundant bait concentrations in the areas that they fish. Indeed I fear that Maine’s position at the northernmost part of the striped bass migration makes it a bellwether state.

In light of such Montauk blitzes, I ask you to consider the below passage taken from a University of New Hampshire Department of Natural Resources document titled A Guide to Fisheries Stock Assessment.

This is the document used to educate members of the fisheries management councils on how fisheries stock assessments are conducted:
“Fishermen will actively seek out areas with greater fish concentrations. As a result, their catch-per-unit effort could remain stable in the face of a declining stock. Consider a stock that contracts its range as the population shrinks, or increases its range as the population grows. Despite the changing range, catch-per-unit effort may remain relatively constant if the fishermen focus their effort on the center of the range, where fish density remains relatively stable.”

With this in mind, I would think managers would be practicing extreme caution when managing striped bass, particularly in light of its immense recreational value. Unfortunately, that doesn’t seem to be the case.

Delaware and Pennsylvania want to open two-month fishing seasons targeting mature male striped bass. Maryland has proposed to extend non-quota management for its trophy fishery in 2009 and until stock assessment indicates that corrective action is necessary, and Virginia wants to extend its season.

All of these measures will increase fishing mortality on striped bass.

In my opinion they are reckless, and they show no respect for the views of those hardworking Maine guides that are being forced out of business. Undoubtedly, there seems to be a trend toward killing more bass rather than a move in the other direction.

That’s understandable given the recent stock assessment and the states’ understanding that their anglers want to kill more bass. But I think there’s a large majority of folks that would rather proceed down a precautionary road. One which insures that we have plenty of big fish around in the future. It’s up to these anglers to let their state reps know their wishes. It seems as if the kill-more-fish-now folks are the only ones being listened to at this point, and that has to stop."
Captain John McMurray (http://laterallineco.com/ambassadors/john_mcmmurray_one_more_cast_charters_jamaica_bay_ guide.html)

http://www.laterallineco.com/blog/category/striped-bass/

[DarkSkies]

Sent by Finchaser. This is the first day of a tourney now going on in Va. I'm happy for the guys who won, I'm sure they're happy. :clapping:

Why should they behave any differently than they have been behaving. There are plenty of bass in Va now, right? It's important to note they didn't break any laws. They were fishing to catch and keep bass as the law allows. There is really nothing to be said about following the laws as written. I want to make it clear that the guys below were only out fishing and trying their best to win a tournament. There is absolutely nothing on the books that suggests any of that shouldn't be happening.

And if a few 50# bass are caught and brought home for dinner, so what? You can always grow more 50s in the ocean right? That's what all those bunker pods are for...for the bass to feed on, right?

How many people saw bunker pod after bunker pod in NJ this year, miles of bunker in the late Spring. No bass under them, for miles. Thousands of bunker with no predators, how could that be? :don't know why:

Bass aren't like Doritos, ya can't just make another 50 when ya take one out of the biomass. It takes a 50 an average of 18-20 years to get to that size.

Here's a weight and length chart to give ya an idea how long it takes bass to get to certain sizes:

9113





Results of the tourney, 1st day:

CITATIONS:
STRIPED BASS: 48 lbs. 8 oz. caught by Mickeal Siebert of Highland Springs, VA


STRIPED BASS: 48lbs. 1oz. caught by Nathaniel Weller of Norfolk, VA


STRIPED BASS: 54 lbs. caught by David Strbavy of Aylett, VA


STRIPED BASS: 50 lbs. 2oz. caught by William Hoover of Norfolk, VA on the Gannet


STRIPED BASS: 42 lbs. 9oz. caught by Shawn Shapiro of Norfolk, VA on the Gannet


STRIPED BASS: 42lbs. 14oz. caught by Thomas J. Blanton of Virginia Beach, VA on the Gannet


STRIPED BASS: 40lbs. 5 oz. caught by Edwin J. Keyes of Carrollton, VA on the Top Notch


STRIPED BASS: 44lbs. caught by Matt Temple of Virginia Beach, VA


STRIPED BASS: 48lbs. 8 oz. caught by James P. Morris of Spotsylvania, VA


STRIPED BASS: 47lbs. .85 oz. caught by Troy Johnson of Fredericksburg, VA


STRIPED BASS: 40lbs. 1 oz caught by Jeff Ervine of Roanoke, VA

[fishinmission78]

This came from another site. Capemayray, he's been around a long time. Captain from the Cape May area.




I was one of the few that attended the meeting last week and commented that I was in favor of a slot fish to allow more larger breeder size fish excape being harvested. I believe only 10 anglers commented out of those that were there. It will all depend on what national marine fisheries hands down as options that will meet the federal requirements.

It is always amazing how many people have ideas but never attend any of the meetings or send in comments in, if they can not attend. Then they go on and on about how it should be this or that not even knowing what went on at the meeting or understand how the regulations are determined. If and when options for a slot fish come about they will be handed down from nation marine fisheries and will have a number of different options that meet the conservation equivelent. They just don't pick numbers out of the air.

Seems like no one wants to face the facts that maybe stripers might be overfished. All you have to do is look around at all the huge stripers that have been caught in the last few years. Does anyone know where all the in-between class size bass are? You just can't keep harvesting large cows and expect bass populations to thrive. Most of the anglers that I know are all catching much larger bass than they ever did, but they are catching less overall and seeing much few of the inbetween sizes that use to be so plentiful.

I find it amazing that National Marine fisheries can say stripers are not overfished and at the same time they report that the year of the young reports show a decline year after year for the last 7 years. Where do they expect future bass to come from?

There are way too many anglers targeting stripers in New Jersey and every other coastal state as they are one of the few fish that you can still fish for. If we do not maintain healthy stocks we will be back having major problems down the road. As another charter captain stated earlier, anglers should be happy with one nice fish a day. Taking some slot fish will elimated killing some of the larger breeders.

If we continue to kill at the rate we are doing now, when there is a decline we will have no one to blame but ourselves.

[finchaser]

IMO they want it to collapse so they can say we destroyed the greatest success story NOAA ever had and close bass and other species. DR. L won't rest until the recreational sector is catch and release only which eliminates all recreational management from Maine to Florida. As she stated if we don't like it we can play golf:burn:

At the present rate with increased pressure from fluke and seabass fisherman turned bass fisherman,they may be gone before most people learn how to swim their precious wooden plugs:(

[DarkSkies]

From the records I read, the Striped Bass Moratorium was put in place in 9-11-84. The stocks had collapsed on a Coastwide basis. There was a noticible lack in the variety of year classes coming in to the rivers to spawn. Here are some links to the Moratorium...

[DarkSkies]

YOY catch data is the statistical record of fish caught in biologist nets.

These nets are pulled at the same places every year. Great care is taken to make the statistical analysis as scientifically unbiased as possible. If the YOY (Young of the year) numbers are down, it could indicate a problem.

These were some of the first statistical indicators that there was a problem back in the mid 1970's to early 1980's. When YOY indicators declined, the biologists knew there was a problem. However by that time it was too late, and in 1984 the fishery was closed down for the whole East Coast.

We have seen similar poor YOY results for the Chesapeake in 2009 and 2008. Stripers Forever published the findings, and it may be in this thread as well. If anyone wants to post up again, that would be great.

[DarkSkies]

I'll try to post up the links here now to the most comprehensive ones, and come back to discuss later. The more I read about fecundity, I realize there is controversy. Many believe that bass 30-40" are the most prolific breeders.

It is said in the studies below that a bass that has just started breeding holds approx 300,000 eggs. However, studies have shown that an adult female bass will hold approx 1mm eggs/ every 10 lbs of weight.

Theoretically, a bass weighing 40# could hold up to 4million eggs.

Please don't just accept my word for it. I'm putting up the links so people can learn for themselves, and trying to present a fair and balanced picture:




Longevity and resilience of Chesapeake Bay striped bass
http://icesjms.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/57/4/808.pdf


NAFO fecundity outline 2001
http://www.nafo.int/Publications/studies/no37/stocks/STB5-6.pdf


Chesapeake Spawning and Fecundity observations 1967 (interesting to note here that they were having similar questions of overfishing back in 1967)
http://web.vims.edu/GreyLit/MDNR/F-3-R-1967.pdf?svr=www


Fecundity of striped bass 1989
http://www.nwrc.usgs.gov/wdb/pub/species_profiles/82_11-118.pdf


2002- AFC Massachusetts paper on the effects of C&R and bass growth http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dmf/publications/stb_growth_stress.pdf

[jigfreak]

Theoretically, a bass weighing 40# could hold up to 4million eggs.



I can't even imagine 4 million. That was eye opening, thanks for posting.

[bluesdude71]

IMO they want it to collapse so they can say we destroyed the greatest success story NOAA ever had and close bass and other species.

Sounds like blaming the victim to me. Great strategy on their part, they don't ever have to look like the bad guys.:2flip:

[jimbob]

IMO DR. L won't rest until the recreational sector is catch and release only which eliminates all recreational management from Maine to Florida. As she stated if we don't like it we can play golf:burn:


Really? where did this come from?

[finchaser]

A NFSM meeting, was also in the paper and sport fishing was stated she doesn't care who she puts out of business and who ever doesn't like it can play golf.

She shut down sea bass,grouper just to name a few with more to come.

The catch and release were my words hers were rec's fish for the enjoyment not to keep fish and the IGFA and others supported that.

[voyager35]

Sent by Finchaser. This is the first day of a tourney now going on in Va. I'm happy for the guys who won, I'm sure they're happy. :clapping:



9113





Results of the tourney, 1st day:

CITATIONS:
STRIPED BASS: 48 lbs. 8 oz. caught by Mickeal Siebert of Highland Springs, VA


STRIPED BASS: 48lbs. 1oz. caught by Nathaniel Weller of Norfolk, VA


STRIPED BASS: 54 lbs. caught by David Strbavy of Aylett, VA


STRIPED BASS: 50 lbs. 2oz. caught by William Hoover of Norfolk, VA on the Gannet


STRIPED BASS: 42 lbs. 9oz. caught by Shawn Shapiro of Norfolk, VA on the Gannet


STRIPED BASS: 42lbs. 14oz. caught by Thomas J. Blanton of Virginia Beach, VA on the Gannet


STRIPED BASS: 40lbs. 5 oz. caught by Edwin J. Keyes of Carrollton, VA on the Top Notch


STRIPED BASS: 44lbs. caught by Matt Temple of Virginia Beach, VA


STRIPED BASS: 48lbs. 8 oz. caught by James P. Morris of Spotsylvania, VA


STRIPED BASS: 47lbs. .85 oz. caught by Troy Johnson of Fredericksburg, VA



STRIPED BASS: 40lbs. 1 oz caught by Jeff Ervine of Roanoke, VA




The bass moved offshore from 8-14miles. People are catching a few smaller ones inshore. They are still hammering the big bass and piling the slabs on the docks.

Dark you said they are not breaking any laws. You are not entirely correct on that. The biggest bass are coming from the EEZ. Guys are violating the regs every day. The Coast Guard was out there the other day and busted a bunch. It doesn't matter, they're back out there the next day. They need to hire some more enforcement down there.

[bababooey]

The biggest bass are coming from the EEZ. Guys are violating the regs every day.

I have relatives down there. Yes they are and it's a damn shame.

[surferman]

They are doing it every day in Va and off the coast of North Carolina. Here is a report that was posted somewhere else 1/23/09-




Misbehaving Recs (and some Coms)


I thought about this for a while before posting. The longer I thought about it, the more I felt that it needed to be said.

Two Saturday's ago, I was off the VA and NC coast fishing for striper. We set the radar cursor on a 3nm distance, perpendicular to our southward movement. We ran just inside the 3nm limit all the way from VA Beach down to Corolla NC.

It was a beautiful day...almost a sheet of glass. Water temps were 36 deg when I passed the CBBT and they got warmer as I moved south. When I hit 40 deg water, I started seeing some bait and marks.

All the way down, we saw a lot of boats out about 3.5nm to 5nm from shore (I +put the radar cursor on them to check the distance). I was out 3nm and they were out another 1.5nm to 2nm.

Ran into the fleet just a bit south of Corolla. About 10 boats were inside the 3nm line, while it looked like about 150 were scattered from the line all the way out to about 5nm. I checked the radar cursor again to make sure I didn't make a mistake. Then I used the chart/radar overlay to see if I got the same distance on the chart. Both readings showed me at 2.985nm from shore (0.015 seems to be width of a pixel on my screen).

It simply blew me away to see such a large number of clearly illegal fishing going on. Yea, yea, I know...they were "targeting blue fish." If you believe that I have a bridge in AZ to sell. There were a few charters in the mix outside the line, but the majority were recs.

We talk conservation, but I guess far too many of us believe that conservation is for the "other guy," not us.

Guys...we have absolutely nothing to say about the commercial fishery, if we are going to be so flagrant about violating the fishing laws ourselves. We complain about the declining numbers of big stripers. We complain about Omega scooping up all the forage fish. We complain about the netters. But we had better start looking after our own misbehavior before we blame the "other guy" for the problem. I believe we [recs] are a big part of the problem. Based on what I saw two weeks ago, no one will convince me different.

I can kick myself for not having a pen and paper on board to write down boat names and hull registration numbers and calling them into the Coast Guard. Yesterday I bought a small whiteboard and dry-eraser pens to keep on board. From here on out, I won't leave home without it and the phone numbers of the MD, VA, and NC authorities. You can bet your sweet bippy that I plan to report them.

My $0.02

[captnemo]

This came from a CCA press release. I guess those guys on that board are all smoking dope, or they are influenced by the commercial rapers.



Coastal Conservation Association
6919 Portwest, Suite 100, Houston, TX 77024
Email: twvenker@joincca.org (tvenker@joincca.org) Website: www.joincca.org (http://www.joincca.org/)

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Feb. 11, 2010 CONTACT: Ted Venker, 1-800-201-FISH




ASMFC Takes Wrong Turn on Striped Bass
Signs pointing to cause for grave concern met with proposal to up commercial harvest

After hearing a litany of significant concerns about the health of the striped bass population presented by its own Technical Committee and by law enforcement personnel, the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission’s (ASMFC) Striped Bass Management Board did the last thing anyone expected at its meeting last week - directing staff to draft an addendum to the management plan which would increase the coastal commercial striped bass harvest.

The stunning turn of events left conservationists shocked at the Board’s apparent disregard for strong evidence pointing to numerous problems with the Atlantic striped bass population. Unlike the 1970s when rampant overfishing was the primary cause of the stock’s crash, the current picture painted by scientists and officers is all the more bleak because of the wide variety of factors that are negatively impacting striped bass.

“This is just the latest indication that the ASMFC has lost its way as an agency committed to proper resource management,” said Charles Witek, chairman of CCA’s Atlantic Fisheries Committee. “As bad off as the stock was in the late ‘70s, the fix was rather straight-forward. What we are looking at today could be much more difficult to reverse. The very last thing anyone needs to discuss during this time of uncertainty is increasing commercial harvest.”

Among the information presented to managers was a report on the declining trend in the striped bass Juvenile Abundance Index, a report from law enforcement personnel on suspected “significant and unreported” poaching in the Exclusive Economic Zone, and a report on the potentially devastating impact of Mycobacteriosis in Chesapeake Bay, the primary striped bass spawning ground for the entire Atlantic Coast, where 70 percent of the fish sampled had lesions associated with the disease. In aquaculture, Mycobacteriosis infections are virtually always fatal, and since infected striped bass that are tagged and subsequently recovered never show any signs of recovery, the disease has dire implications for striped bass everywhere on the coast.

Such reports by fisheries professionals, viewed with the well-documented decline in spawning stock abundance and decreasing recreational harvest at the northern end of the striped bass’ range, paint a troubling picture of the species’ future.

“This stock has problems mounting on all fronts, and managers seem content to wring everything they can from it before the party ends,” said Richen Brame, CCA’s Atlantic Fisheries director. “This is not the stance anglers have come to expect from the same commission that was widely credited with making the hard decisions needed to save striped bass just over three decades ago. They say those who forget history are doomed to repeat it, and that is a road anglers don’t want to go down again.”



###

CCA is the largest marine resource conservation group of its kind in the nation. With almost 100,000 members in 17 state chapters, CCA has been active in state, national and international fisheries management issues since 1977. For more information visit the CCA Newsroom at www.JoinCCA.org (http://www.joincca.org/)

[storminsteve]

Among the information presented to managers was a report on the declining trend in the striped bass Juvenile Abundance Index, a report from law enforcement personnel on suspected “significant and unreported” poaching in the Exclusive Economic Zone, and a report on the potentially devastating impact of Mycobacteriosis in Chesapeake Bay, the primary striped bass spawning ground for the entire Atlantic Coast, where 70 percent of the fish sampled had lesions associated with the disease. In aquaculture, Mycobacteriosis infections are virtually always fatal, and since infected striped bass that are tagged and subsequently recovered never show any signs of recovery, the disease has dire implications for striped bass everywhere on the coast.

Such reports by fisheries professionals, viewed with the well-documented decline in spawning stock abundance and decreasing recreational harvest at the northern end of the striped bass’ range, paint a troubling picture of the species’ future.

“This stock has problems mounting on all fronts, and managers seem content to wring everything they can from it before the party ends,” said Richen Brame, CCA’s Atlantic Fisheries director. “This is not the stance anglers have come to expect from the same commission that was widely credited with making the hard decisions needed to save striped bass just over three decades ago. They say those who forget history are doomed to repeat it, and that is a road anglers don’t want to go down again.”






I don't get it, keep the numbers up by catching more fish? Where is the logic in that? Will they give commercials more because they give everyone more or will they take away from the recreational allowance to give that to the commercials?

[jigfreak]

[/CENTER]


I don't get it, keep the numbers up by catching more fish? Where is the logic in that? Will they give commercials more because they give everyone more or will they take away from the recreational allowance to give that to the commercials?

This is absolute BS. To say with all the evidence they were presented with that striped bass are not even in a slight decline, it almost seems like some special interest gtoup paid off these guys.
Here is something I found from an ASMFC site- reading it to me seems he is blaming it on natural striped bass mortality -- W T F is thatm about?




SHEPHERD: We can get more specific. As pointed out by the recent public comments there, the catches have varied by state, but generally there has been a decrease in the last couple of years...Maine has seen a decrease; New Hampshire, likewise, a very steep decline in catch. Massachusetts, the discard numbers have decreased steadily, although the landings have remained relatively stable after the initial decline. Rhode Island has decrease... Overall the recreational landings and discards have decreased in the last few years with the exception of those states in the New York Bight, which is outside of the Hudson River Area.


We’ve done some projections of the estimate of eight-plus abundance in the spawning stock biomass. Because of the incoming year class strength, the projection of abundance would suggest that it should remain relatively stable for the next two years and increase a little bit as we get particularly that 2003 year class start moving into the system, but then a decline over several years of those weak year classes that were evident in the recruitment pass through the system...



We also did some projections of harvest. If the status quo fishing mortality of 0.2 were to continue, we would expect to see a declining trend in harvest, which is landings and bycatch, for the next several years; a slight uptick three years out with the incoming stronger year classes; then a continuation of declines through that.




The conclusion from the assessment update is that it is currently not overfished or subject to overfishing according to the definitions... Specifically for the Chesapeake Bay – well, when we look at the model with the two period – this is total coast – actually, the F is a little bit higher but M is much greater than the 0.15 that we’ve been using in the catch-at-age model. It’s anywhere from 0.28 to 0.43 in 2008. So these additional tagging models would suggest that has been an increase in natural mortality, and that’s something that we intend to look further at in the next go-around for use in the physical catch-atage model as well as to look at the effective variable and an increasing M. It’s thought to be primarily from the outbreak of myco in the Chesapeake

* the lower spawning numbers in the Chesapeake
* the growth of the myco disease in the Chesapeake
* the increased mortality rate from stripers as a result of myco
* the fact that this increased mortality rate has not ben factored into the Tech Committee's model's


http://www.asmfc.org/meetings/winter...ementBoard.pdf (http://www.asmfc.org/meetings/winter2010/AtlanticStripedBassManagementBoard.pdf)).

[DarkSkies]

Dave A from the Reel seat in Brielle NJ talks about getting involved and why it's important


9654838

[DarkSkies]

Dan has been fishing for a long time. Here he shares his thoughts about how things used to be, and where he sees fishing heading.


9660274

[bababooey]

A new article on the state of the bass fishery, and some thoughts.
From Saltwater fly fisherman mag, july aug 2010 issue.
Striper Article.pdf (http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=374180&d=1278013340)

[crosseyedbass]

They went to hell in a hand basket because not many practice catch and release.

[DarkSkies]

NOAA findings


I was looking for an online source for Al Ristori's Conservation Watch article in the 7-8-10 Fisherman magazine (NJ).

In it he says that coastal striped bass catches are down sharply in recent years.

"The recreational striped bass catch figures, compiled by the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS), including the Wave 5 results for 2009, reveal a precipitous decline".





In the above, he's referring to the years 2006-2009. Logically, these are the most recent data figures available, so they should be listened to.

If anyone finds the rest of the article online, feel free to post citing the source, thanks.



Here's the NOAA PDF from a few years back speaking about a relative decline in certain anadromous species.

http://spo.nwr.noaa.gov/unit03.pdf

[voyager35]

Thanks for the info dark. Anyone who fishes a lot has seen a downward decline over the past few years. It is what it is, why deny it? Fishing was spectacular this spring, the big bass were in the ocean for a good while. That still doesn't mean there are more fish. They were just concentrated where the bunker was. I don's see how people don't get that.

[BassBuddah]

Thanks for the info dark. Anyone who fishes a lot has seen a downward decline over the past few years. It is what it is, why deny it? -I don's see how people don't get that.

They don't get it because a lot of them can't be bothered. Look at the leaderboards of all the hottest surf tourneys at M this year - Korkers Cup, Paulies, and so on. Compare the results from 2010 to the years 2000 to 2009. Ask yourself where all the big fish have gone. Look at all the previous years, and then try to say with a straight face that there are more bass now. I would like to see someone prove that to me with statistics. I know they can't because I have seen the decline with my own eyes and in my catches.

[DarkSkies]

I wanted to add the link to Finchaser's "Decline of Bass" thread here.

http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?7271-Decline-of-bass

Fin has been fishing for over 55 years. :whoo:

He's seen it all. Some might think he's preaching. Some might think of him as chicken little claiming "the sky is falling" when in fact there's no danger at all....

If you do think that, I respectfully submit you haven't been fishing for very long, or have not had to experience the lean fruitless bass fishing years that led to the striped bass moratorium in 1982.

People, we're not preaching catch and release and joining PETA here. :laugh:
All we're asking people to do is look at the gov't documented ASMFC declines in YOY bass numbers. Ask yourselves if the stock is healthier than it's ever been, how is this decline possible? :huh:

Many who have a few decades of fishing experience understand this, they don't need it "explained" to them. There are some outspoken charter captains and writers out there who are trying to bring their anecdotal evidence and experiences to others.

We need to keep reaching the younger anglers out there. We need to keep reaching out to them, and illustrating why their 4, 5 or less years of experience doesn't give them the full perspective or allow them to see the complete picture of a trend that may not be apparent enough until it's again time to close the striped bass fishery.

I hope that we can continue to do that here without seeming antagonistic.
Aggressive, Yes http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon14.png
Antagonistic, No.



Lately, this year and last, I'm getting an attidude of apathy from the younger, less experienced anglers out there. :beatin:

There are some that are concerned. I'm grateful for that. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon14.png However, some younger anglers who have no concept of the moratorium, don't even want to hear about it. They feel their perspective is the only one. More importantly, apathy reighs supreme among many of today's fishermen.

They can't be bothered. But tell them there are 40lb bass crashing the beach,,,,,
and suddenly they become interested. :drool:

A lot of the original posters in this thread tell me privately they have given up trying to reach the newer generation, that it's useless.

I'm inclined to agree to an extent....but some part of me still refuses to give up.

Whether people think I'm preaching or not, I'm still gonna try to bring these perspectives to you. And I'm grateful for people like Finchaser and others who still have the fire coming out of them.....maybe people will open their eyes before it's too late.

[lostatsea]

I hope you're not ready to give up yet, DS. Here is an article that was just published in the Vineyard Gazete:

http://www.mvgazette.com/article.php?29887


‘Scary’ Decline In Striper Stocks

By MARK ALAN LOVEWELL
A drastic decline in striped bass stocks has state and federal officials scrambling to protect the fish, but many recreational fishermen say the government isn’t moving fast enough.

“It’s really scary,” said Cooper (Coop) Gilkes 3rd, owner of Coop’s Bait and Tackle shop in Edgartown, who has seen the haul from the annual June catch-and-release striper tournament fall dramatically. “At one point we had somewhere between 1,500 and 2,000 fish weighed in on one night. Last year there were 100 and it’s like a staircase going all the way down to last year. It’s just dropped every year.”

Last year, Mr. Gilkes said the annual springtime sea worm hatch in the Island’s coastal ponds — an event that historically attracts stripers by the hundreds — had “just about failed” after years of under-performance.

“It’s mind-boggling that we could get to this point with everybody watching,” he said.
Mr. Gilkes’s experience is supported by national data. In Massachusetts the Division of Marine Fisheries acknowledges that from 2006 to 2010 the catch of small stripers dropped by nearly 75 per cent.

The Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (ASMFC) cited a 66 per cent decline in the estimated recreational catch from 2006 to 2009, and in March called for a drastic 40 per cent reduction in striped bass mortality for 2012 to help replenish the ailing spawning stock in the Chesapeake Bay.

But in an April letter to Massachusetts Division of Marine Fisheries director Paul Diodati, state Sen. James Timilty of Bristol and Norfolk County pushed for a 50 per cent reduction in striper mortality for this year. The move is backed by the fishing advocacy group Stripers Forever.

“As we look ahead to the season we must focus on protecting what is left of the large 2003 class of breeding females and work to avoid another total crash of the striped bass population,” Senator Timilty wrote.

“It’s a very smart move and why they will not act on it I have no clue,” Mr. Gilkes said in his tackle store on Thursday.

For fisherman and Striper Wars author **** Russell, Mr. Timilty’s 50 per cent proposal would be a good start, but he isn’t holding his breath.

“It’s a bureaucracy and it takes time to put things in place,” Mr. Russell said. “I’m glad that the ASMFC has finally woken up to the fact that we need to take some steps to address this but I just think it should happen now instead of postponing it for another year. It’s definitely heading in the direction of [the declines of the 1970s] unless they take some pretty severe measures.”

In an e-mail to the Gazette this week, Mr. Diodati said he has received some two dozen letters calling for a reduction in the 2011 harvest and that he shares the public’s concern about striped bass. But, he claims, it is not “possible or prudent” to act this year, citing an updated stock assessment due to be completed at the end of the summer that would guide the agency’s policy.

“Since there is no prior evidence showing that poor juvenile production is a result of excessive fishing mortality or low spawning stock abundance, it makes good sense to review that information prior to taking any management action,” Mr. Diodati wrote.
He also said the ASMFC could at any point freeze state management programs for several years, potentially keeping Massachusetts catch levels far below reasonable limits indefinitely.

“The interstate fisheries management program does not reward a state or offer incentives for taking proactive conservative actions,” he wrote.

The cause for the decline of the stripers is unresolved and hotly contested, but Mr. Diodati cautions that there are material differences between the current crisis and the devastating collapses of the 1970s.

“Today’s resource condition is much different and better than when striped bass stocks became depleted in the mid- to late-1970s,” he wrote. “Then, catches of large (and small) fish went virtually uncontrolled at the same time that young of the year production was plummeting.”

Mr. Diodati said that the numbers of reproductively mature fish remains relatively high, even above management goals and insists that the problems in the striper stock are attributable in large part to poor water quality and disease in the Chesapeake where the fish spawn, rather than overfishing along the coast.
Mr. Gilkes, though, thinks that everyone is responsible for the decline, recreational fishermen included.

“My own personal opinion is I’d like to see them go back to 36 inches for recreational fishermen and one fish a day,” he said. Currently recreational fishermen are allowed two fish a day with a 28-inch minimum. “I think that’s plenty until they’re back. It’s not being managed right. I know what worked last time when they went to 36 inches and they brought her right back. I was shocked at how fast those fish came back,” Mr. Gilkes said.

Mr. Russell also advocates the one-fish-a-day limit. Though he acknowledges that water quality in the six-state watershed of the Chesapeake Bay, which reaches far into Pennsylvania and includes Wahington, D.C., and Baltimore, may be affecting the bass, Mr. Russell implicates two other major factors in the stripers’ decline: poaching and the commercial menhaden harvest.

As the Gazette reported in February, more than 10 tons of illegally gill-netted striped bass were confiscated by Maryland environmental police this winter and a video of hundreds of dead stripers caught as bycatch in North Carolina waters has surfaced on the Internet.


As for the commercial menhaden fishery — the small fish is a staple of the striper’s diet — Mr. Russell said: “It’s basically one company, Omega Protein,” referring to the Houston-based fish oil supplement and fish meal supplier, the largest of its kind in the world.

“It’s true that the water quality is not very good but the menhaden abundance according to the AFSMC’s own data has gone down 85 per cent in the last 25 years,” he said. “The numbers are at historic lows and the striped bass are not getting enough to eat.”

With striper season poised to begin any day, Mr. Gilkes, whose livelihood depends on the recreational fishermen, doesn’t know why the fish have disappeared. All he knows is that he has had enough.

“I just want them back,” he said as he checked out a customer’s lures on Thursday. “I don’t care how they get them back. There are some very dark clouds forming and I don’t like them.”

[7deadlyplugs]

I found this on another site. This Capt charters in the NY Harbor area. Some guys say there is no decline, stripers are stronger than ever/ I suppose this guy, and his statistics, are :kooky: Learn from the past, thats what the posts here basically say, and I agree with them.:learn:

Here is what he said:
bass decline

"I have charters for bass Monday to Friday, 5-9 PM, May 1 to Nov. 10. I have been fishing NY harbor since 1994. By '96, 5 fishermen were averaging 20-30 bass, per night, clam chumming. Right through the summer!! Most fish were 23-27 inches. We would catch a few each week that were over 28 inches, but not many.

Today,.....same spots,..... we catch 6-8 fish a night. Of those 75% are now over 28 inches. School bass are missing. Ask the guys who fish Little Neck Bay in the spring. They'll tell ya' the schoolies are NOT like they used to be.

We are KILLING TOO MANY bass!!
My suggestion? 36 inch minimum size, one fish per person. "

[captnemo]

I agree with this writer's opinion:


Though it’s been said to death, we need to conserve the breeding stack with a true slot, possibly as seemingly brutal as throwing back bass between 32 and 40 inches. In a perfect world, that would leave loads of eating fish (24 to 28?) and well-earned tournament trophy fish (over 40 inches).

[DarkSkies]

Great points, folks.


Finchaser and I have been all over the NJ coastline in the last 2 weeks. More bunker than you can imagine....:bigeyes: and no appreciable amounts of bass under them, except for the last 2 days, October 25 and 26....in a few days we'll be into November, the first year in a long time without any notable Fall surf concentrations of bass from NJ to Montauk.






Some people have called me recently and asked if I could get behind the "Save the bunker" movement, as the bunker numbers are down an estimated 70-80%...

I say that is certainly troubling....
but please consider this.....

If we miraculously quadrupled the amount of bunker tomorrow, putting them back to historic levels, we would still have the same amount of bass in the waters off our East Coast....

Food for thought, instead of saving the bunker....how about saving the bass..http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon3.png only keeping 1 instead of your limit each time, self imposing a slot size on ourselves, releasing all fish between 32-38" (the most fecund or most prolific breeders).

All these above suggestions could help to keep our bass numbers from declining further...while striped bass are not endangered, they are certainly on the decline....if anyone wants to prove otherwise please post up your striped bass fishiing logs from the last 10 years as proof....

[surfstix1963]

For many of the newer guys that can't face reality(Not All)what Rich mentioned about Fin fishing for 55 yrs he has seen it all I'm sure he has and he is not on here with constant updates because he enjoys typing he is trying to make everyone aware of the current crisis of bass and you may or may not want to listen or agree I guess thats your choice but my money is on Fin being correct I wish I had 1/4 of this mans experience in fishing.They have seen it they have lived it and they are seeing history repeat itself and trying to make us aware of the end result.As much as I like bass fishing another moratorium may be good for the fish and a valuable learning lesson for others.

[finchaser]

People wanting to save bunker are the snag and drop crew,with no disrespect is really the only way some can get a fish. Bunker have made many fisherman so called bass fisherman and fear without them they won't score. These same people are the ones who helped wipe a breading class of fish. Number don't lie all big fish came from 20 years ago a major YOY and now 2011 anther record spawn that won't be ready for harvest (28") if they survive mother nature until 2019. In the mean time they will continue to wipe out spawning size fish from the last successful class from the early 2000's. Think about it fish have gone from numerous 50,to 40 to 30 now 20's the last big YOY index is almost wiped out. The 2011 YOY will take until 2031 to be a 50, many reading this won't be alive to witness this if it happens at all. The fish are approaching a size that can only chase bunker not eat it. Two days ago a school of bunker was in the surf bunkering as I call it, a perfect day for them no harassment's. The school stretched from Avon to Seaside in some area's so thick you couldn't fish from the beach. Watched anglers boat and beach snag away all they did was kill bunker.

Think of it as living in a society where there are fewer and fewer children every year until you hardly see any.


Remember pay attention to the bad things history has taught us or be prepared to live it again.

[DarkSkies]

1. Number don't lie all big fish came from 20 years ago a major YOY and now 2011 anther record spawn that won't be ready for harvest (28") if they survive mother nature until 2019.

2. In the mean time they will continue to wipe out spawning size fish from the last successful class from the early 2000's. Think about it fish have gone from numerous 50,to 40 to 30 now 20's the last big YOY index is almost wiped out.

3. The 2011 YOY will take until 2031 to be a 50, many reading this won't be alive to witness this if it happens at all. The fish are approaching a size that can only chase bunker not eat it.

4. Two days ago a school of bunker was in the surf bunkering as I call it, a perfect day for them no harassment's. The school stretched from Avon to Seaside in some area's so thick you couldn't fish from the beach. Watched anglers boat and beach snag away all they did was kill bunker.

Think of it as living in a society where there are fewer and fewer children every year until you hardly see any.


Remember pay attention to the bad things history has taught us or be prepared to live it again.



Some good points made here. And Fin, as well as many of the old-timers here, have lived through it all.
People think of some of this as preaching, because many of those folks have been fishing seriously for less than 10 years. At that level you might not notice trends like those we're seeing......

Thanks all for your continued feedback in this important thread....:thumbsup:

[vpass]

My sentiments exactly, I notice over the years I'm catching more keepers and less shorts. Most of the shorts this year are maybe 3 years old. I’m not seeing many 4 to 8 years old fish. And hardly any fishes older then 10 years old (my luck is not that good for this size fish, it could be me.). If the 2011 YOY is true, it could be fun fishing in 4 or 5 years from now, keeper size in 8 years. bigger fish will be rare . We need to start protecting these fish to have a better then average YOY. And the way I'm seeing fish being kept or killed (N.C.) we could be headed for disaster.

The only reason the 2011 YOY was good is that all conditions were meet to have this striped bass spawn succeed as it did. Why were 2004 to 2010 not as good?

[cowherder]

I have only been catching bigger (well, to me they are big anyway but not accordig to dark!) bass for 3 years now and that is because I joined this site and you guys helped me a lot. I try to read almost every post that gets posted here.,Through that I get a general sense that you all, especially finchaser, have a lot of experience from which you speak. I would not doubt any of your words because as surfstix says, you have lived through it. Thats why I think it is important to catch and release some fish. I think vpass said some important things about the smaller bass too. When I first started fishing, I would catch raritan bay a lot and catch mostly small fish. Now when I go to check on the piers there it seems like they are not catching much of anything, even bluefish.

[bababooey]

Even Fish-story Ristori is out of stories, the surf fishing must be bad. From his blog:

"as far as I'm concerned it can't do anything but good for surfcasting which has been the worst I've seen in October since starting surfcasting in N.J. many years ago. "

[finchaser]

Even Fish-story Ristori is out of stories, the surf fishing must be bad. From his blog:

"as far as I'm concerned it can't do anything but good for surfcasting which has been the worst I've seen in October since starting surf casting in N.J. many years ago. "


He was given the name Al Fishstory many many years ago. I know him since he worked for Abu Garcia
back in the 60's and have fished the beaches with him for 25 years. We were discussing this just the other day when he decided to fish blackfish in the canal since bass fishing was a waste of time.

[DarkSkies]

Even Fish-story Ristori is out of stories, the surf fishing must be bad. From his blog:

"as far as I'm concerned it can't do anything but good for surfcasting which has been the worst I've seen in October since starting surfcasting in N.J. many years ago. "


I would like to remind anglers that last year, BEFORE the action heated up at Island Beach State Park and some other areas, many surf anglers were lamenting how lousy the 2011 Surf Season was......this isn't conjecture, these are cold hard facts.

The sand eels showing up at Island Beach provided 6 weeks of fantastic fishing, and saved the season.
Without them, some tackle shops would have been close to bankruptcy because the fish were just not there.

[DarkSkies]

This continues the thoughts from the above post....

Every year we have numerous 50's and 60's caught off the coast of NJ.
So far, as of May 19, there have only been a few 50lb fish reported.

There have been some 40lb class fish, but not too many of those, considering how many guys are out there fishing......


Let's assume that all the other pages of this thread are just crap, totally made up, illogical thoughts....as there are some out there who would have you believe that striped bass fishing in NJ is as good as it's ever been.......

If that were so, we would be awash in reports of 50 and 60lb fish being caught.
As the Spring season is at least halfway along with large numbers of fish now at Montauk and Block, surely more numbers of these bigger fish would have been reported.....




But there aren't....why not?


I submit to the folks out there, that is because we have hammered those year classes.
Everyone out there is in a quest to land and keep a bigger trophy fish.....

As a result the 50's and 60's are dwindling.
the 40lb class is also dwindling as well.

The "NEW" average big fish is generally between 20-25lbs.
THIS is a huge problem, as the fish from 32-38" are scientifically proven to be the most prolific breeders (do a search on fecundity studies on this site to see the proof)

[DarkSkies]

Where are the schoolies?
Additionally, the inshore surf areas where friends and I fish have generally held a lot of schoolie bass, in the 20-27" range....


Other than the ones we were catching in the winter, (See the thread where I identify these as Hudson River Fish) and a spurt of activity in the bays around March, there have been relatively few small schoolie bass in our northern NJ waters this spring.....countless surf anglers have mentioned this to me, and noted their concerns.


These small bass are the spawners of tomorrow...if their numbers aren't strong, the striped bass population is nowhere near as healthy as it is claimed to be.

Food for thought, folks.....

[albiealert]

Excellent points, dark. We have schoolies in the Sound but I think that is because a lot of them winter in the Connecticut Rivers. My catces of the smaller bass have gone down in the last 3 years, so maybe that is something you can use in your data here too.

[Monty]

But there aren't....why not?


I submit to the folks out there, that is because we have hammered those year classes.
Everyone out there is in a quest to land and keep a bigger trophy fish.....

Not everyone Dark, but way, way, way to many are out there killing to many big fish or for that matter any fish that is legal..
Its past being out of control, regulations need to change cause the people killing them will not change.
How there is still a bonus tag is ducking stupid.
How regulations have not been adjusted to the increased pressure on Striped bass is a display of ignorance, corruption and stupidity.

[finchaser]

Not everyone Dark, but way, way, way to many are out there killing to many big fish or for that matter any fish that is legal..
Its past being out of control, regulations need to change cause the people killing them will not change.
How there is still a bonus tag is ducking stupid.
How regulations have not been adjusted to the increased pressure on Striped bass is a display of ignorance, corruption and stupidity.

Tom Forte :2flip: and his stupid statement of there are more bass than ever delayed it a year

[BassBuddah]

Tom Forte :2flip: and his stupid statement of there are more bass than ever delayed it a year



^^ That is not possible. That statement is inane.


my recent Montauk report:

I was looking for a thread to add my summer observations to. This one seemed appropriate. I have been fishing the big M consistently for about 20 years, Summer and Fall. Last Fall was the worst one since I started keeping logs. I was hoping this summer would turn out better for we who fish the Point at Montauk and the night tides at different places there.
I have gone out there for the last 2 weekends. My results are not encouraging. Each weekend my biggest fish were only in the mid teens. First weekend I managed 2 teeners to 15 lbs. Last weekend I managed 1 thirteen pounds. There were a few small schoolies and bluefish. All on the night tides, into sunrise. And a few bluefish as well.
According to my logs the 2nd week of June has consistently been a point where the action starts to heat up.
We have water temps around 67 degrees there right now, and it has been as low as 61. This is good temperature for bass and they should have been there in greater numbers. This concerns me. I am hoping things will turn around for the fall but am not optimistic. The boats are doing well out in deeper water. We have had a lot of small whitebait run through the Point and the fish should be there but they are not.

[Monty]

This is good temperature for bass and they should have been there in greater numbers. This concerns me. I am hoping things will turn around for the fall but am not optimistic. The boats are doing well out in deeper water. We have had a lot of small whitebait run through the Point and the fish should be there but they are not.

There are a few posts I see here in Jersey already looking forwrd to the fall run. Lots of peanuts in the bay. The fall will more than likey bring sand eels up the wazoo again.

I keep thinking what good all that bait will be without bass?
Seems like the only way to get the regulations changed is to kill as many bass as possible. A race to zero bass. Snag and drop and eliminate the breeders. MORONS!!

[crosseyedbass]

I keep thinking what good all that bait will be without bass?
!

Hey no problem, once the bass are gone we will have the biggest sea robins dogfish and skates around. And did you know the stripers are responsible for eating all the crabs?:rolleyes: Once the bass are gone the crabs will get to around 10" in size, right?:kooky:

[skinner]

There are too many internet heroes out there. Didn't start fishing until 5 years ago and now they are all pros with facebook pages and seminars. The hoisting of big fish for photo ops and putting them in dumpsters has got to stop. But maybe you can't fix stupid and as monty said maybe we need to start all over so most will quit fishing for them and move on to other things (golf anyone?)

[DarkSkies]

Seems like the only way to get the regulations changed is to kill as many bass as possible. A race to zero bass. Snag and drop and eliminate the breeders. MORONS!!

Monty, for years I was of the mindset that some of us could make a difference. I started a thread elsewhere and got some real positive comments and memories of what bass fishing used to be like, and drawing parallels to what happened before the moratorium, to what is happening now.














As you guys said, the focus on big bass is part of the problem. And I don't take issue with that, but I really must add that it is more the participation in striped bass fishing, that is one of the biggest factors in the decline I and others are seeing.



That could be solved by a "limited slot fishery" where we did not permit the most prolific breeders, say from 28"- 38"....to be harvested.

You could have a bonus trophy fish for all fish above 38"....one per angler, no bonus tags.
And maybe one small fish 24-27" allowed per day for anglers as well.
Kind of like they have in NY but with slightly different parameters.
The key is to find a way to get anglers who fish often, to take less fish home.
I fish more than the average angler and as a result catch more fish. This has opened my eyes to mortality and conservation. I know that if I want to talk about the future, it's up to me to set an example and do my part.

However, I know my ideas might not end up being the most popular or reasonable to all involved. I can tell you if this were done, we probably would never have issues with the biomass again. The biggest factor in breeding is fecundity (do a search here and you will find some interesting threads).
You will also find that bass from 28-38" are the most prolific breeders.



I have no vested interest in whether the fishery remains open or not.
I will still fish for bass, whether they permit us to or not. I consider it part of my therapy to do it, and part of my rights as an American citizen.

The only way I would stop fishing for them is if I thought they were headed for extinction, like the weakfish possibly are. I have stopped targeting weakfish because of that, and don't believe in the cyclicality theory that some believe in. I know for a fact that some gillnetters are decimating the spike weakfish population. As fast as the spikes can grow, they are netted and sold for 20c/lb as catfood. Minimal regulations for this, and IMO until it stops completely, the population will not rebound...

[DarkSkies]

But I digress, back to the Striped Bass....
I could probably be very happy if this Fishery was closed. As it is now, most of the guys who were not serious have stopped fishing for them completely and will not start again till they hear the "run" is "epic" in the fall....:rolleyes:


That's fine with me as I am enjoying more room at the beach at night than ever before.
But the participation has dropped so much it's kind of eerie....I can go for nights on end without ever running into another soul....

That was a thing I used to relish....


but part of me thinks about future anglers...
And my conscience bothers me if I don't stand up for them, whether they feel they need an advocate or not...


1.The Father fishing with his Son or Daughter at the beach or bayside, teaching them the ropes...
2.The Kid who doesn't have a father, or whose father is too busy, getting into fishing as a way of dealing with life (that kid was me, at times)
3. The family who doesn't have a lot of money to take fancy vacations, and views fishing at the beach, or bay, as a way to relax and have fun for the day....
4. The newest generation of our children who are so enmeshed in electronic gadgets that people don't communicate with each other verbally anymore...it's all done by phone or texting....

[DarkSkies]

"Giving up your seat to the Woman on the Train"

I'll try once more, to paint a picture of how things are, for the folks out there...
Analogies are often helpful tools to try to get folks to empathize and see things on their own terms...
I'll be using this analogy in discussions on various websites I belong to. Feel free to use this analogy if it suits your needs.



I. I think most of us have ridden on a bus or train at least once in our lives.
I used to ride a train every day to commute to work.

The way I was raised, was that when you are on a bus or train, and a woman comes on, you automatically get up and offer your seat to her. Our generation just did this without thinking. Some might say in today's times it is sexist. I think it would be sexist to insist she take the seat.....

However, I consider it an act of human kindness to offer it. Woman are our equals, but we can also show them respect that they deserve. Chivalry is a good thing. That's how I was raised and am glad for it.






Thinking about striped bass,,,,I want you folks reading this to think of that analogy as you read the following words.....





II.
Suppose there are a lot of us who fish for striped bass.
We are all riding on the same bus, or train.

Something happens to the conditions that causes us to re-think of where we are sitting on that bus or train.
(In the bus example, a woman gets on and we feel compelled to offer her a seat, moreso if she is pregnant or elderly)

In the striped bass example, we are all fishing for bass, conditions, change, and we make a choice to do things differently, such as restrict our catches, keep less, put more breeders back etc....




We make these changes, do these actions, voluntarily.
Some of us offer our seat more than others.
Because we fish more often or have more seasoning, we see a bigger picture that others cannot see.

This is not tree hugging, or environmental freaks...folks have seen my battles with these people.
The difference there is that the envoronmental freaks want to force their views on everyone else.

In this bus/train example, I want to make it clear that some of us are making a conscious choice.
To do things differently.







One of the problems with today's generation, is that they were raised differently.
Some of them are selfish, self-centered.
Some of them don't understand the concept of self-sacrifice.
Some of them won't make changes until they are directly affected or it's too late.


So I hope this analogy was not too confusing, and made sense to some folks out there.
We either monitor our catches, and think about changing some of our harvesting behavior.

(Realisticaly, I don't think the above changes will happen, but remain somewhat hopeful)









Or.....
We can let the Gov't do it for us,,,,when (not if, but when) there is another crash

[DarkSkies]

I want to thank all you folks who have laid down your thoughts and opinions in this thread.

I'm just a moderator who tries to provide some guidance and order.:HappyWave:...but your honest opinions, even when different, are the true voices here....and I sincerely thank you for every one of them...... :thumbsup:


Some more resources....

1.Striped bass species and life cycle South Atlantic
http://www.nwrc.usgs.gov/wdb/pub/species_profiles/82_11-118.pdf

2. Egg survival relative to low salinity, medium turbidity, lower suspended solids, adequate dissolved oxygen content, and moderate water temperature (65 or less is optimal)
http://www.waterboards.ca.gov/waterrights/water_issues/programs/bay_delta/deltaflow/docs/exhibits/dfg/spprt_docs/1987/cdfg_exh42.pdf

3. Egg and fry survival optimum conditions
http://www.dnr.state.md.us/irc/docs/00000260_13.pdf

4. Striped Bass range and behavior
http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dmf/recreationalfishing/stripedbass.htm

5. NOAA charts on striped bass and egg survival
http://spo.nmfs.noaa.gov/mfr413/mfr4131.pdf

[Monty]

(Realistically, I don't think the above changes will happen, but remain somewhat hopeful)


Or.....
We can let the Gov't do it for us,,,,when (not if, but when) there is another crash

Dark, I think it is very good this is discussed, that the conservative opinions are expressed on message boards and in person. In the end it will more than likely take the "crash" to have regulations changed to a level that will cause the striper population to increase in numbers. But the voices of reason on the conservative end may have an impact on some and may speed up the changes needed.
Like you I'll always fish for them. Its therapy. Its fun.

[williehookem]

Written by Capt Gene Kelly




8/13/12

When the boat next to you isn’t sailing that’s a recession and when you aren’t sailing that’s a depression and right now things are pretty depressing for the Montauk charter fleet. Friday and Saturday are always the busiest days (Sunday traffic scares a lot of people) and when I made my early morning check this past weekend there were a couple of boats still tied up that shouldn’t have been. And this is August, normally the busiest month when most of the established boats would normally be sailing every day unless they were blown out. And now, most are lucky to get in four to five trips a week.

I run a charter service and most of my calls come after potential clients have gotten tired of calling boats only to find out they are booked. Back in the early spring I was getting inquiries which is very unusual so I thought that this would be a better year than last year, which was a pretty poor one. But I guess as all the poor economic news developed, people started to change their minds about how they were going to spend their $$$.

Now most of my calls are from individuals looking to join in with others on a shared charter, which we used to call a “splits” until they became extinct. Years ago when I started out splits were very common and all the old timers remember Tuma’s Tackle Shop where Mrs. Tuma would coordinate things. You’d hang around in front of the shop until she would call you and give you six anglers to take out. Nowadays there is no central booking agency where that can be done. All the charterboats are getting calls from singles or doubles that want to join up with some others on a trip, and undoubtedly every day at least one trip could be put together.

As I always say when I hear guys moaning and groaning about the business; “It could be worse, I could own a boat”.
As for the fishing, you could check back with last weeks report. It’s pretty much the same. There are a good amount of makos around and if you go sharking you will probably catch - and release - one. Tuna fishing is nothing to get excited about


Inshore striper fishing is still tough and Southwest Ledge isn’t looking as good as it was.

Bottom fishing is good for porgies and sea bass and OK for fluke.

I’m trying to get a forum up and running. It only deals with Montauk. If you fish here, check it out at http://www.montauksportfishing.com/mtkforum.html and contribute.

[lostatsea]

William "Doc" Muller on bass in the Chesapeake and Hudson. Doc has written a few books and knows his ****.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoljiwS2puI

[dogfish]

When you get past the MA canal there are a lot of real great rivers to the west that have always held bass. They still do and every year you can find numbers to 30lbs. As Doc says, they "say" the bass are healthy. When you fish for them and scratch your head and say how come they aren't thick this year you start to think about the numbers that the scientists put up. There was a time when Capts I know used to have this discussion. They said the bass were declining because of lack of bunker. Now it looks like the bunker are coming back. We don't see a lot of them but I blame the seals for that too. I think I read where an adult seal can eat 20 bunker a day. To get to the point if there are more bunker there should be more bass, no? But there aren't. Especially the ones in the 24-34" size. I think that corresponds to the bad years that Muller mentions in the the interview.

[Monty]

A good read in Fishing In Saltwaters, written by Lou Tabory
http://www.flyfishinsalt.com/species/fish-species/striper-report-2013?page=0,0&cmpid=enews070913&spPodID=030&spMailingID=17680302&spUserID=NTY3MzAwMDc2MzIS1&spJobID=217931806&spReportId=MjE3OTMxODA2S0

Striped bass are an ideal game fish for many reasons, but one of the most notable has to do with the fact that they feed in so many different conditions. I can’t think of any other major game-fish species that can be found in such diversified water. Stripers can swim freely in heavy rolling surf or along rocky shorelines with 10-foot waves crashing into structure. Another plus is the simple fact that they primarily live in the Northeast, which just so happens to be the most populated region in the United States, making them accessible to thousands of anglers.

Stripers were my first exposure to fishing. Nearly 60 years ago, using a light spinning rod and an Uppermen bucktail, I caught my first bass; about 10 years later I took my first on fly. In those days, fly-fishing for these great game fish was an oddity and was a tactic that seemed frivolous to most anglers. Fly-fishing was for trout or in southern locations for tarpon and bonefish. Back then, most anglers felt fly tackle was not suited for rolling surf, big rips or ocean beaches, where casting distance was often the name of the game. But these anglers were wrong, and the sport grew until there were in some locations more anglers fly-fishing for bass than there were spin anglers. Into the 1990s and early 2000s, the boom of fly-fishing in the Northeast continued to grow. Striper populations were coming back strong from a catastrophic collapse that occurred in the ’80s — the fishery was thriving. There were solid numbers of fish, not the large fish we saw in the ’70s and early ’80s but indeed plenty sizable for fly tackle. While the spring and fall runs were very healthy ones, in all actuality, the spring runs were stronger than the fall runs, which was opposite to the fishery of the ’70s and ’80s.

Then something happened. Around 2005 or 2006, the fishery seemed to taper off. Other anglers I talked to noticed a drop in numbers even earlier than that. All of us hoped it was due to a lack of bait or a change in habits, but as the years passed, the numbers continued to fall and fishing success dipped. Knowledgeable anglers still find some fish, and in New Jersey, fishing is still good because large concentrations of menhaden are off the state’s beaches. From year to year, some sections of Maine and locations such as Rhode Island, Montauk, New York, and some areas in Long Island Sound still see bright spots, but generally up and down the coast, fishing is off.

The outer beaches of Cape Cod, and the islands of Martha’s Vineyard and Nantucket, Massachusetts, have seemed to be the hardest hit, with the shore fishing getting worse each season. Many anglers began to blame the drop-off of striped bass on the growing population of seals in these areas. And it’s accurate to say that beach fishing there is off more so than boat fishing. Without a doubt, the effects of well over 120,000 seals not only chasing stripers but also consuming them makes matters worse. Some boat captains claim there are still good numbers of fish, and this might be true. The huge offshore rips that run from Monomoy Island to east of Nantucket and then west to the Vineyard are vast sections of water seldom affected by fishing pressure. In fact, this water was a stronghold, a sanctuary if you will, for stripers during the last collapse. These areas still hold fish and it is hoped they will continue to do so. There are reports from blue-water boats looking for tuna spotting large schools of stripers well offshore in deeper water. This could be due to a lack of bait or a change in stripers’ habits; perhaps with fewer fish competing for food, there is no need for the fish to move into shallower water or along the beaches to feed. In my early fishing days, we seldom found fish on big shallow flats. Only when the numbers of fish increased and big baitfish became less plentiful did flats fishing become popular. But why are fish suddenly not feeding on the flats or along the beaches as they did only a dozen years ago? It keeps coming back to fewer fish.
Evidence of a drop-off in the striper fishery is seen in the lack of anglers traveling to locations like Cape Cod and the islands to fish. Ten to 15 years ago, Cape Cod hosted large numbers of surf anglers, especially in the fall. Beach buggies were everywhere. Most were spin fishermen, but at the Vineyard fly-anglers often dominated the water. And it really didn’t matter because the fishing community was out enjoying its mutual passion — fishing for striped bass. Now the number of anglers that come to Cape Cod in the fall is down to a trickle. The last few years, in most cases, I had the beaches to myself except for the seals, which have now taken over.

There has always been mixed emotions with stripers. In Massachusetts, there are many commercial rod-and-reel anglers. I first saw evidence of this while doing the early outdoor shows in locations like Worcester. I was a young gun, a fly-rodder who believed that stripers should be a game fish and released — not a popular opinion in those days. I participated each year in the Saltwater Round Table at the Worcester show where Frank Woolner, the first editor of Salt Water Sportsman, liked having fun setting me up as a radical who wanted every striper released. It was in good humor, and at the same time, it allowed me to make my point — stripers are far too valuable to kill. When the collapse of the striper fishery came, I remember Frank saying, “I don’t know how Tabory knew about the stripers problem, but he was right.” Back then, I had no knowledge of what was wrong; it was just my moral belief that it was right to release the majority of them. I never was against anglers keeping a special fish or eating a few each year; it was the slaughter of fish for the market or to fill a box for a charter business that upset me. Before the moratorium, there were virtually no regulations to protect the striped bass. For some anglers this meant “kill ’em all.” It was this mentality that sparked the collapse of the fishery.

In the 1940s and ’50s striper numbers fluctuated, but by the early ’60s the numbers increased as did the young-of-the-year. From the early ’70s, striper numbers continued to grow, with 1973 recording the largest commercial landing in modern times. Fishing for bass was at an all-time high with large numbers of big fish taken from the beach. Some articles written in outdoor publications bragged of the large numbers of big fish piled on the beaches. This was when commercial beach-angling became very popular, with catches of more than a thousand pounds of stripers on a hot night. This certainly was not the norm, but it was definitely possible and is an accurate gauge of how good the fishing was at that time. But even on an average night, these anglers were killing many fish with no restrictions of numbers. Nobody ever thought it would end; the fishery seemed to remain strong. The market price of stripers was high and anglers were making big money.

The average spin angler experienced fishing that was often unheard of. Along the beaches, catching a 20- to 30-pound striper was possible on any outing, with a 40-plus-pound fish still a very real possibility. I got small glimpses of this possibility, but I was able to seriously fish only the end of this run of big fish, and it was still good especially by the standards of someone who had never fished the cape and islands during the best years. In the early ’80s, everything changed. The numbers of stripers decreased rapidly, and at the same time, young-of-the-year numbers drastically dropped. With no regulations in place to prevent further damage, anglers continued killing these big fish; all stripers over 15 pounds are females, which means they were killing the brood stock. There was another problem, a void of smaller fish. Most of the fish were bigger. In the waters off the cape and islands, there was a time when fish under 15 pounds were almost nonexistent. The ’80s, unlike the early ’70s, had fewer fish, but when you hooked up the fish were 20 to 40-plus pounds. Yes, it was an exciting time to fish, but as these larger breeder fish disappeared, nothing replaced them. The stocks of fish from the Chesapeake Bay, the major supply of stripers along the East Coast, had a grim future. The Hudson River stocks were stronger, but they supplied fish to a much smaller area.
In the early 1980s, the cause of this devastating drop in striper numbers was lack of regulation. Actually, there could have been a blessing in disguise in that the fishery collapsed so fast that drastic measures were needed quickly. It was the first time in the history of the striper fishery that sport anglers and commercial anglers agreed on an issue — stop killing fish. It took a little time, but eventually a moratorium was established protecting stripers. It was a tough measure, but necessary, and slowly the fishery began to strengthen.

One thing that has happened in the last five to six years is people not facing the facts — stripers are in trouble again. Some anglers have lowered their expectations and now refer to as a good day’s fishing a situation that years ago was only a fair to poor outing. Newbie anglers simply believe catching a few fish is what is to expect. The Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (ASMFC) is turning a blind eye to this very serious problem, often siding with commercial interests. In Eddies, a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service magazine, an article by John Bryan appeared in the Spring 2012 edition about the successful restoration of striped bass. The proof offered is a phone call from an angler fishing Montauk who claimed that the fish were so thick you could almost walk on them. That kind of thinking is just sad. To see the problems, fisheries management needs to look at how few anglers travel to locations like Cape Cod to fish for stripers compared with 10 years ago; or examine how the numbers of stripers entered in the Martha’s Vineyard Derby as well as the sizes of fish have dropped in recent years. The 50-pound benchmark striper is a thing of the past. Sales of nonresident over-sand beach permits has dropped significantly in the last five years as well. Even with cell phones and the Internet broadcasting any action, fishing is generally slow for the average angler. A quote from John Bryan’s article addressing the decline that occurred in the late ’70s states that “over harvesting, especially of spawners, was identified as a major reason for the decline, and strict limitations were put in place.” Why would fisheries managers, who openly admit that harvesting too many spawning females caused the last decline, go out and do the same thing again, allowing anglers to take two fish a day over 28 inches?

I am not using just my fishing success to judge the health of the striper population; I’m getting information from many other anglers that fish a lot harder than I do. I believe charter captains using effective techniques like wire-line trolling or bait anglers fishing in deep water are not true indicators. In my opinion, the best barometers are the fly and surf-plug anglers. Fly-fishing is the most difficult way to catch stripers, followed by surf fishing with artificials. In the last six to seven years, say anglers I know who fish using these techniques, fishing is falling off in many New England locations, and in the last three years, it’s gotten worse. Ten years ago, locations in shallow water in late spring in Cape Cod Bay would usually have hundreds of fish each day; now they have 30 to 40 fish, sometimes half that. This is not based on one year but more than five years of checking these locations. Now, if there is a small push of fish one day, the next day is often dead. In the good years when you hit fish, they were usually there for three to four days or longer. In the late 1990s in May, the “bowl” just south of Chatham Lighthouse on Cape Cod might have had a hundred anglers fishing — now it’s mostly empty. Guides I know that specialized in light tackle and fly-fishing for stripers have stopped doing trips or fish for other species.

There is one easy solution to this problem: Stop killing the breeders. Both recreational and commercial fishermen target larger fish because regulations require that practice. A slot limit similar to what the state of Florida has for most of its game fish would stop the killing of females. In the Northeast, only the state of Maine has a slot limit. If stripers were protected from 28 inches to 48 inches, they would have at least eight to 10 years of freedom to spawn. A one-fish-a-day, 22- to 26-inch slot limit would solve this problem, letting anglers keep a fish while saving the fishery. When it comes to fisheries management, Florida is the example we need to follow. Unfortunately, because of commercial interests a slot limit will be a tough sell. Even most six-pack captains would fight any laws that would take away from their business.

Obviously, the best solution would be to make stripers a game fish. However, I’m afraid the only way we will get game-fish status is if we lose this great game fish one more time.

[DarkSkies]

A good read in Fishing In Saltwaters, written by Lou Tabory
http://www.flyfishinsalt.com/species/fish-species/striper-report-2013?page=0,0&cmpid=enews070913&spPodID=030&spMailingID=17680302&spUserID=NTY3MzAwMDc2MzIS1&spJobID=217931806&spReportId=MjE3OTMxODA2S0

There were solid numbers of fish, not the large fish we saw in the ’70s and early ’80s but indeed plenty sizable for fly tackle. While the spring and fall runs were very healthy ones, in all actuality, the spring runs were stronger than the fall runs, which was opposite to the fishery of the ’70s and ’80s.

1. Then something happened. Around 2005 or 2006, the fishery seemed to taper off. Other anglers I talked to noticed a drop in numbers even earlier than that. All of us hoped it was due to a lack of bait or a change in habits, but as the years passed, the numbers continued to fall and fishing success dipped. Knowledgeable anglers still find some fish, and in New Jersey, fishing is still good because large concentrations of menhaden are off the state’s beaches. From year to year, some sections of Maine and locations such as Rhode Island, Montauk, New York, and some areas in Long Island Sound still see bright spots, but generally up and down the coast, fishing is off.





2. The outer beaches of Cape Cod, and the islands of Martha’s Vineyard and Nantucket, Massachusetts, have seemed to be the hardest hit, with the shore fishing getting worse each season. Many anglers began to blame the drop-off of striped bass on the growing population of seals in these areas. And it’s accurate to say that beach fishing there is off more so than boat fishing. Without a doubt, the effects of well over 120,000 seals not only chasing stripers but also consuming them makes matters worse. Some boat captains claim there are still good numbers of fish, and this might be true.





3. The huge offshore rips that run from Monomoy Island to east of Nantucket and then west to the Vineyard are vast sections of water seldom affected by fishing pressure. In fact, this water was a stronghold, a sanctuary if you will, for stripers during the last collapse. These areas still hold fish and it is hoped they will continue to do so. There are reports from blue-water boats looking for tuna spotting large schools of stripers well offshore in deeper water. This could be due to a lack of bait or a change in stripers’ habits; perhaps with fewer fish competing for food, there is no need for the fish to move into shallower water or along the beaches to feed. In my early fishing days, we seldom found fish on big shallow flats. Only when the numbers of fish increased and big baitfish became less plentiful did flats fishing become popular. But why are fish suddenly not feeding on the flats or along the beaches as they did only a dozen years ago? It keeps coming back to fewer fish.

















Monty thanks for posting this. I think Lou Tabory did a great job of laying it all out there.
I took the liberty of putting spacing and bullet points in his article to make it easier to digest.


** I think it is also important to note that he has accounted for seal predation in his examples.
Some out there think anyone who writes an article like this is looking to skew the data to say the sky is falling, without looking at all the factors.
I think what Tabory did, is a great counter to any criticisms that might arise of the logic he used.....

Another example is Bob Pond...anyone who remembers him will remember they laughed at him too...until there were no bass left, and the Moratorium was reality in 1982.....

[DarkSkies]

4. From the early ’70s, striper numbers continued to grow, with 1973 recording the largest commercial landing in modern times. Fishing for bass was at an all-time high with large numbers of big fish taken from the beach. Some articles written in outdoor publications bragged of the large numbers of big fish piled on the beaches. This was when commercial beach-angling became very popular, with catches of more than a thousand pounds of stripers on a hot night. This certainly was not the norm, but it was definitely possible and is an accurate gauge of how good the fishing was at that time. But even on an average night, these anglers were killing many fish with no restrictions of numbers. Nobody ever thought it would end; the fishery seemed to remain strong. The market price of stripers was high and anglers were making big money.




5. The average spin angler experienced fishing that was often unheard of. Along the beaches, catching a 20- to 30-pound striper was possible on any outing, with a 40-plus-pound fish still a very real possibility. I got small glimpses of this possibility, but I was able to seriously fish only the end of this run of big fish, and it was still good especially by the standards of someone who had never fished the cape and islands during the best years. In the early ’80s, everything changed. The numbers of stripers decreased rapidly, and at the same time, young-of-the-year numbers drastically dropped. With no regulations in place to prevent further damage, anglers continued killing these big fish; all stripers over 15 pounds are females, which means they were killing the brood stock. There was another problem, a void of smaller fish. Most of the fish were bigger. In the waters off the cape and islands, there was a time when fish under 15 pounds were almost nonexistent. The ’80s, unlike the early ’70s, had fewer fish, but when you hooked up the fish were 20 to 40-plus pounds. Yes, it was an exciting time to fish, but as these larger breeder fish disappeared, nothing replaced them. The stocks of fish from the Chesapeake Bay, the major supply of stripers along the East Coast, had a grim future. The Hudson River stocks were stronger, but they supplied fish to a much smaller area.





6. In the early 1980s, the cause of this devastating drop in striper numbers was lack of regulation. Actually, there could have been a blessing in disguise in that the fishery collapsed so fast that drastic measures were needed quickly. It was the first time in the history of the striper fishery that sport anglers and commercial anglers agreed on an issue — stop killing fish. It took a little time, but eventually a moratorium was established protecting stripers. It was a tough measure, but necessary, and slowly the fishery began to strengthen.








Monty thanks for posting this. I think Tabory did a great job of laying it all out there.
I took the liberty of putting spacing and bullet points in his article to make it easier to digest.

[DarkSkies]

7. One thing that has happened in the last five to six years is people not facing the facts — stripers are in trouble again. Some anglers have lowered their expectations and now refer to as a good day’s fishing a situation that years ago was only a fair to poor outing.

Newbie anglers simply believe catching a few fish is what is to expect.




8. The Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (ASMFC) is turning a blind eye to this very serious problem, often siding with commercial interests. In Eddies, a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service magazine, an article by John Bryan appeared in the Spring 2012 edition about the successful restoration of striped bass. The proof offered is a phone call from an angler fishing Montauk who claimed that the fish were so thick you could almost walk on them. That kind of thinking is just sad. To see the problems, fisheries management needs to look at how few anglers travel to locations like Cape Cod to fish for stripers compared with 10 years ago; or examine how the numbers of stripers entered in the Martha’s Vineyard Derby as well as the sizes of fish have dropped in recent years. The 50-pound benchmark striper is a thing of the past. Sales of nonresident over-sand beach permits has dropped significantly in the last five years as well. Even with cell phones and the Internet broadcasting any action, fishing is generally slow for the average angler. A quote from John Bryan’s article addressing the decline that occurred in the late ’70s states that “over harvesting, especially of spawners, was identified as a major reason for the decline, and strict limitations were put in place.” Why would fisheries managers, who openly admit that harvesting too many spawning females caused the last decline, go out and do the same thing again, allowing anglers to take two fish a day over 28 inches?





9. I am not using just my fishing success to judge the health of the striper population; I’m getting information from many other anglers that fish a lot harder than I do. I believe charter captains using effective techniques like wire-line trolling or bait anglers fishing in deep water are not true indicators.

In my opinion, the best barometers are the fly and surf-plug anglers. Fly-fishing is the most difficult way to catch stripers, followed by surf fishing with artificials. In the last six to seven years, say anglers I know who fish using these techniques, fishing is falling off in many New England locations, and in the last three years, it’s gotten worse. Ten years ago, locations in shallow water in late spring in Cape Cod Bay would usually have hundreds of fish each day; now they have 30 to 40 fish, sometimes half that. This is not based on one year but more than five years of checking these locations. Now, if there is a small push of fish one day, the next day is often dead. In the good years when you hit fish, they were usually there for three to four days or longer. In the late 1990s in May, the “bowl” just south of Chatham Lighthouse on Cape Cod might have had a hundred anglers fishing — now it’s mostly empty. Guides I know that specialized in light tackle and fly-fishing for stripers have stopped doing trips or fish for other species.





10. There is one easy solution to this problem: Stop killing the breeders. Both recreational and commercial fishermen target larger fish because regulations require that practice. A slot limit similar to what the state of Florida has for most of its game fish would stop the killing of females. In the Northeast, only the state of Maine has a slot limit. If stripers were protected from 28 inches to 48 inches, they would have at least eight to 10 years of freedom to spawn. A one-fish-a-day, 22- to 26-inch slot limit would solve this problem, letting anglers keep a fish while saving the fishery. When it comes to fisheries management, Florida is the example we need to follow. Unfortunately, because of commercial interests a slot limit will be a tough sell. Even most six-pack captains would fight any laws that would take away from their business.

Obviously, the best solution would be to make stripers a game fish. However, I’m afraid the only way we will get game-fish status is if we lose this great game fish one more time.








Monty thanks for posting this. I think Lou Tabory did a great job of laying it all out there.
I took the liberty of putting spacing and bullet points in his article to make it easier to digest.

[DarkSkies]

&&&

[DarkSkies]

The points he makes have been echoed on this and many other bass fishing websites.
Some think it is all propaganda....

My position is that if you fish more than 5 days a week and claim the above is all lies, you are really lying to yourself like an ostrich with its head stuck in the sand....

Many are the stories that have been related by members here of going to Cape Cod in the late 1970's and seeing recs fishing alongside comms, when wheelbarrows were used to carry the staggering amounts of fish off the beach.

A popular tactic is to " blame the netters" for what is happening today, without admitting that now, in 2013, there are more recreational fishermen fishing for striped bass than ever before.

[DarkSkies]

I know some get mad at me when I say this, but there is truth beyond my words...just ask anyone who has been fishing for the last 40 years or more...

1. The last moratorium was the fault of the Comms, this is indisputable fact....

2. This Moratorium, if one is necessary, blame will sit squarely on the shoulders of the Recs who told everyone else to "mind their own business" and "If you don't like the limits change the law"

Most phrases like the above are IMO the product of the society we live in today....a Society where no one wants to take any part of the blame, or responsibility, until it is too late......









Thanks for bringing this to our attention Monty....any opposing views are welcome and I will defend your right to state them as long as you can back up your views with data.....
Thanks for reading.....

[robmedina]

Most phrases like the above are IMO the product of the society we live in today....a Society where no one wants to take any part of the blame, or responsibility, until it is too late......


yep- it's the root of the problem all the way around.

[finchaser]

What he^^^ said and IMO on the brink of distruction

[surfstix1963]

They are disappearing quickly year after year,they are overfished or should I say over kept by greedy people.They will also be the first ones crying when the Moratorium is put in place again and it will be around far longer this time.

[clamchucker]

7. One thing that has happened in the last five to six years is people not facing the facts ?€” stripers are in trouble again. Some anglers have lowered their expectations and now refer to as a good day?€™s fishing a situation that years ago was only a fair to poor outing.

Newbie anglers simply believe catching a few fish is what is to expect.




8. The Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (ASMFC) is turning a blind eye to this very serious problem, often siding with commercial interests. In Eddies, a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service magazine, an article by John Bryan appeared in the Spring 2012 edition about the successful restoration of striped bass. The proof offered is a phone call from an angler fishing Montauk who claimed that the fish were so thick you could almost walk on them. That kind of thinking is just sad. To see the problems, fisheries management needs to look at how few anglers travel to locations like Cape Cod to fish for stripers compared with 10 years ago; or examine how the numbers of stripers entered in the Martha?€™s Vineyard Derby as well as the sizes of fish have dropped in recent years. The 50-pound benchmark striper is a thing of the past. Sales of nonresident over-sand beach permits has dropped significantly in the last five years as well. Even with cell phones and the Internet broadcasting any action, fishing is generally slow for the average angler. A quote from John Bryan?€™s article addressing the decline that occurred in the late ?€™70s states that ?€œover harvesting, especially of spawners, was identified as a major reason for the decline, and strict limitations were put in place.?€? Why would fisheries managers, who openly admit that harvesting too many spawning females caused the last decline, go out and do the same thing again, allowing anglers to take two fish a day over 28 inches?




These are two of the key issues we are facing today. Many of the most vocal internet conversations are dominated by fishermen who have not been fishing that long. For them catching 10 bass in a night is epic. This is not representative of the way fishing was 10 years ago. As to what went on at the Cape, I was there several times decades ago when the fishing was fantastic. It was possible for newcomers to pull in 400 to 1000lbs of fish a night. It was that easy. For fishermen who have not experienced this it is hard for them to relate to when fishing was actually good. Now when it is mediocre they call it fantastic and that is just not true.

Take Island Beach for example. The great sandeel fishery of 2011 was memorable. What some folks fail to recognize is that the fish just weren't there after the spring blitzes. There was a 6 week period when a few fish were caught daily but it was a drip from an ever closing faucet where the flow seemed to be restricted. According to my records the bite did not really start until november. Without that sandeel bite the area shops like betty and nicks,grumpys and dock outfitters would not have had good fall seasons.
Any analysis of the historical trends is not complete without making comparisons with the drop in numbers that led to the moratorium.

[DarkSkies]

May be using some of these posts to raise awareness. Feel free to C&P if you need to as well. :HappyWave:

[finchaser]

Dead

[surfstix1963]

I'm going to say this will probably be one of the worst striper seasons ever recorded

[J Barbosa]

I'm going to say this will probably be one of the worst striper seasons ever recorded

Its certainly started that way for our holdover bass in the Raritan bay. :scared:

[finchaser]

I agree on bad ^^^ but not even close to the worst in the 80's we fished sometimes all week every night to get one fish

[DarkSkies]

I'm going to say this will probably be one of the worst striper seasons ever recorded


I agree on bad ^^^ but not even close to the worst in the 80's we fished sometimes all week every night to get one fish

The season isn't entirely over yet, but it looks like you people were on the money, with your predictions. :HappyWave:

I would like to say: "Good call!"....but it pains me to see the bass have declined so much....with so few willing to listen, or making other excuses for the poor fishing......

[baitstealer]

What do you guys think about the fishing at island beach this year? Wondering if the last 3 weeks is a good indicator of the amount of stripers out there?

[hookedonbass]

I didn't fish island beach enough to compare it to what others might say. went there twice this fall. The fishing seemed to heat up around thanksgiving and from the reports put out lately seems like most of the fish have moved on.
Some recent articles I found.

http://www.reel-time.com/articles/conservation/open-letter-asmfc-striped-bass/
http://conservefish.org/author/john-mcmurray/

[CharlieTuna]

Good videos by SJ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrezl5zU6fI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoljiwS2puI

[seamonkey]

Doc Muller- they are not there in the numbers that we are told they should be according to the ASMFC. I spend a lot of my time paying for big year classes to make up for the human mistakes and greed.

Very informative thank you for the share.

[CharlieTuna]

You're welcome. Best of luck to you guys still fishing in Jersey.

[buckethead]

Interesting article about the chesapeake population.
http://www.richmond.com/outdoors/tee-clarkson/clarkson-an-incredible-recreational-resource-striped-bass-numbers-just-not/article_7565af1b-1270-54c8-9200-8be2283c8c4f.html

[BassBuddah]

Just watched this video, very informative. Rich Troxler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1071&v=G_IYCvZoa-Q

[williehookem]

Fantastic video thanks for the share.

[finchaser]

mostly dead

[bababooey]

:HappyWave:Hey its finchaser! How are things at the finchaser fishing hole? Do any warm water fishing yet? Drove by the plant the other day, lots of guys all over. Thought you might have been out there tossing some lures.

[bababooey]

That was a good video bassbuddah thanks for sharing. I think some of the problem is the immigrants fishing near most of the major inlets. I have seen them take everything they hook, even the smaller bergalls. Especially undersized blackfish! Where are the COs?