Candid conversations with fishermen about striped bass....

[DarkSkies]

Some may think I'm too much of a fanatic about conservation.

I thought some of ya's would like to know what your fellow fishermen out there, are saying.

Striped bass have fully recovered, so why the intensity, is it still necessary?
As mentioned in many threads here, recent studies have shown that YOY indicators are down, and the ASMFC came out with a recent ruling stating that catch limits for striped bass will be recuced in the near future.

The publicity that happens when the big bass are off the shores of NC, VA, NJ, or LI is another thing to deal with. Any of us who fish a lot see the same guys keeping their limit every time. Even if they fish 5 or 6 days a week, they get their limit, they're keeping it...

What's wrong with that?
They're not breaking the law...what right do we or anyone else have to criticize them?

Very good point, what people are doing out there, is legal, and NOT against the law. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon3.png

However, I thought it might be helpful to start chronicling some of what I am hearing fishermen say out there. I'm out fishin as much as I can when I'm not working. I meet a lot of different people. They all have stories to tell, and opinions on fishing.

IMO a guy/gal who is a fisherman will be more wiling to share honest opinions in a casual conversation with a fellow fisherman, than they will with a survey-taker.

So here, in unedited form, and as accurately as possible, I'll try to present to you folks out there, what your fellow fishermen are saying....

When possible, I'll try to document who they are, with first names. and how long they've been fishing. Hope you find this interesting, because I do...:fishing:

[DarkSkies]

6-8-11
Conv with Joe Z, fishing for 35 years, fishes 6 days a week:

"I am around a lot of the surf blitzes and sometimes at the marinas when the boats come in. We are definitely killing too many big fish! These fish are not being replaced as fast as we catch them. Do you know it takes a trophy striper 20 or 25 years to get to that size? I eat fish, but the madness I have seen in NJ this season is sickening. I love to fish, so I still do it. But the greed and selfishness of some of these guys, it's just appalling."

[DarkSkies]

Monday, June 6. 2011
John, Ocean County

"Epic blitz, epic blitz! When I hear some of these surf and boat guys describe fishing I have to laugh. They know nothing about epic blitzes, 30 years ago, when the fish used to blitz all day, and sometimes for 3 days. These kids, they get into a bass blitz for a few hours, and call it epic. Some of them weren't even born yet when we had the most consistent fishing of my life, where you could get into blitzes in many locations. Fishing 3 or 4 years, and they think they know what an epic blitz is!"

[fishinmission78]

Dude, epic to some of these kids is if they get an hour of bass fishing. Many see the bigger bass and think that's how it always used to be. They know nothing about working for fish. If they can't catch a fish in 15 minutes, they bail.

[fishinmission78]

Monday, June 6. 2011
John, Ocean County

"Epic blitz, epic blitz! When I hear some of these surf and boat guys describe fishing I have to laugh. They know nothing about epic blitzes,"

If you count last Monday as being "epic" lol, we haven't had any great surf action in OC in 5 days. And this genius confirms -

6/13/11 UPDATED 12:05 PM We haven't had a bass hit the scales in 5 days now. I don't know what to tell you. The amazing inconsistency in the water temps, which have now dropped back down to 63, and one of the worst Springs weatherwise and participationwise, has us stumped

[williehookem]

I have not been fishing as long as a lot of you guys, but IU think the biggest thing I have seen is lack of respect out there. You will be fishing out there, and someone will come right alongside and fish 5' away from you. I think the old-timers would not have put up with that or threw the dude in the water. Now we don't say anything because you never know the guy could have a knife or gun.:scared:

[DarkSkies]

The title above says it all. I cannot believe that there are still people singing that tune. :kooky:

Rather than speaking candidly about what I feel about people making comments like that, I think the charitable thing to do is say perhaps they are mis-informed....or they have not been fishing a long time, and only have the "fishing in the bunker blitzes" frame of reference with which they are making these assumptions.

Here's the latest in an exchange between Finchaser and another fisherman. I applaud Fin, grouchy as he is :laugh:, for his diplomacy and restraint in giving an honest clear answer that IMO is clearly describes the current state of striped bass fishing......(reprinted with permission of Finchaser)
*******************


OrigPoster: (this person was referring to the bunker boats (bunker netters, AKA "Bait boats" with a "B" on the side) that are now offshore of Ocean County and Monmouth County...)
"Question is are they netting on the way to Point Pleasant... no wonder the bite stopped...."





Finchaser:
"We were out Sunday and yesterday and caught and released 16 bass, there are acres of bunker in some area's the recorder couldn't find bottom because of the mass of bunkers not visible on the surface.

There are just less big fish. what took 20 to 25 years to grow can't sustain the pressure and needless waste of big fish.

Divide up the bass to the over abundance of bunker schools and things look out of proportion, as many bunker schools have no bass.

Believe me, the bite along the beach has stopped, but out a mile it's game on the fish have just moved off.
People on party and charter boats don't need 3 large fish each.It's funny people won't eat big blues because they taste like bunker after they are in chum slicks and fed chunks but they love big bass that eat bunker day in and day out.Go figure."

*********************











Thanks for telling it like it is, Fin, and for exercising more than your usual diplomacy :rolleyes: in that answer. There are tons of folks out there who truly believe the bunker boats are why they don't catch fish, or the netters in NC, or the illegal gillnetters in MD. They don't want to look at the white elephant in the room because it's too unpleasant to face for some....which is....that the biomass of striped bass on the East Coast is shrinking. :learn:

[jigfreak]

They don't want to look at the white elephant in the room because it's too unpleasant to face for some....which is....that the biomass of striped bass on the East Coast is shrinking. :learn:[/SIZE]

The white elephant is that half of them couldn't catch a fish if it weren't for bunker. I was out tonight and saw every good imaginable. Lucky a few guys didn't get hooks in them and have to go to the ER, the greed was so bad. Casting over lines, no courtesy, total level of idiocy. Half the guys I meet don't have the skills to find fish in the shadow lines of a bridge at night, or stalk quietly on a sod bank to find feeding fish, hours on end, as you patiently go from sod bank to sod bank.

[plugcrazy]

Bunker bunker everywhere not a bass to be found. I have seen that more than once.

[jonthepain]

You will be fishing out there, and someone will come right alongside and fish 5' away from you.

Twas ever thus

[captnemo]

Finchaser:
"We were out Sunday and yesterday and caught and released 16 bass, there are acres of bunker in some area's the recorder couldn't find bottom because of the mass of bunkers not visible on the surface.

There are just less big fish. what took 20 to 25 years to grow can't sustain the pressure and needless waste of big fish.

People on party and charter boats don't need 3 large fish each.It's funny people won't eat big blues because they taste like bunker after they are in chum slicks and fed chunks but they love big bass that eat bunker day in and day out.Go figure."
:learn:




Big bass do not taste as good as the smaller ones, the ideal size for me being in the range of 28-34".
And the biggest bass, if they are eating bunker, their meat does taste different. If you have eaten a lot of different fish at different times of the year you should be able to tell the difference.

[bababooey]

Big bass taste like A**!
What captnemo said, 28-34" is the perfect eating size.
Or, you could just eat fluke. Imo the white meat from fluke is superior to striped bass. Call me craxy, but you don't have to worry about pcbs or anything like that when eating fluke. Fluke, it's the East coast "other white meat.":laugh:

[wish4fish]

bababooey dude how do u kno what azz tastes like thats a little gay dude, unless u r talking about a chick i will check out the azz of a chick cuz chicks are like crack u do anything to get some bush, but dude, taste like azz i want to know what yur experience is, thats a scarey statement!:scared:

[williehookem]

^^:kooky:
Back on topic, i found this digging through threads here, guys, in a thread called where are the striped bass. Hope it is ok to post here dark, if not please move where you think it fits best.







I found this on another site. This Capt charters in the NY Harbor area. Some guys say there is no decline, stripers are stronger than ever/ I suppose this guy, and his statistics, are :kooky: Learn from the past, thats what the posts here basically say, and I agree with them.:learn:

Here is what he said:
bass decline

"I have charters for bass Monday to Friday, 5-9 PM, May 1 to Nov. 10. I have been fishing NY harbor since 1994. By '96, 5 fishermen were averaging 20-30 bass, per night, clam chumming. Right through the summer!! Most fish were 23-27 inches. We would catch a few each week that were over 28 inches, but not many.

Today,.....same spots,..... we catch 6-8 fish a night. Of those 75% are now over 28 inches. School bass are missing. Ask the guys who fish Little Neck Bay in the spring. They'll tell ya' the schoolies are NOT like they used to be.

We are KILLING TOO MANY bass!!
My suggestion? 36 inch minimum size, one fish per person. "

[DarkSkies]

Conversation with Ed & Wally....

Met these 2 guys the other morning, after I woke up from fishin all night and went to scout out any signs of life as there wasn't even a morning bite.....

They have over 85 years experience fishing the salt between the both of them. Both remembered the moratorium, and when fishing was something so good that you didn't have to drive all over to chase the fish, they were just there, running up or down the beach, Spring or Fall....

Some comments....

Fluke -
They were lamenting the hundreds of surf fluke they caught for 2011, with nary a keeper.

Bluefish -
They were reminiscing all the great times we had fishing the surf for big bluefish, and trying to remember the last time we had a great spring or surf run of tackle-busting bluefish.

Bunker and bunker boats -
They had no issue wiith the out of state bunker boats and trucks coming into our state to buy bunker and ship it out of state...this was discussed as we looked upon miles of bunker in the surf, nothing on them, and a few dozen boats clustered tightly together livelining bunker with nothing to show for it. They felt the focus should be on saving the bass, not the bunker....:learn:


Fishermen, boats, fishing, and respect of fishermen for others in general....
They said.."If you have a boat and can't catch a fish, you should take up golf! We are retired and like to fish a certain stretch of beach. Each year it gets worse and worse. Fishing is nothing like it used to be"

Weakfish -
"We don't know what is happening to all the spike weakfish. 2 weeks ago, we were catching (and throwing them back) every day in the fall. It boggles the mind how many of them there are this year, and yet they never make it to adulthood. It's probably the gill-netters. We used to catch weakfish every year like clockwork, to 13lbs, now that never happens anymore"

Striped bass -
"We have a friend who fishes almost every day of the fall. He keeps a log and fishes the same area we do. In 2009, he caught over 100 striped bass (keepers). In the fall 2010 he got 20. "

[DarkSkies]

Ocean County-

Someone I ran into one morning, after seeing miles and miles of bunker, with nothing under them....


"I usually average 300 bass a year give or take. I have 41 this year."

[DarkSkies]

Another conversation with a veteran angler...
re-printed with permission....



"The past two days of non stop casting takes a toll on my body, not as young as I once was. Saturdays results were just a continuation of Friday, nothing seen, nothing caught. Not even blues around, not that I'm looking to catch them. But when they are around I feel like the Bass may follow.

I'm glad ya got a few last night, but there should be more. Part of me wants to believe both sides of the threads about the abundance or scarcity of the Bass. I just don't want to convince myself that the Bass are not there in numbers, but my catch ratio doesn't lie. I also want to believe what some folks are saying about abundance, but I just don't see it.

I know I don't fish the most productive spots due to the crowds -- I don't like the arrogance or just plain dis-respect for the Bass. But it makes me try harder, crazy, I know, but that's my game. The past two days you could see for miles and beyond, I couldn't find any evidence of action among those sights, the ocean was dead, not even a blue. Years ago we would wait for that first hint of light, to look out and see some action somewhere, some life, a hint of hope that something might come in close, pull drag, bring some sense of accomplishment. Today I see nothing.

I'm far from a blitz caster, anyone can catch in those situations most of the time.

I'm looking to catch from my experience and abilty to figure out what the Bass is thinking. Recently I have been going back to old producers and against the grain, just to see what's going on, but the result is still the same. I love the front and haven't fished the back in years. My challenge has always been the front."

[hookset]

Part of me wants to believe both sides of the threads about the abundance or scarcity of the Bass. I just don't want to convince myself that the Bass are not there in numbers, but my catch ratio doesn't lie. I also want to believe what some folks are saying about abundance, but I just don't see it. [/I]



I know I don't see it either. I fish where the crowds are because it seems more fish come by where there is current. That hasn't played out for me lately. It is harder and harder to catch just one bass. I don't have years of logs like some of you guys, but something smells, and it's not the stinking clams on the beach.

[jigfreak]

Ocean County-

Someone I ran into one morning, after seeing miles and miles of bunker, with nothing under them....


"I usually average 300 bass a year give or take. I have 41 this year."

I'm usually at 3-400 bass for the season. My numbers this year are similar, 33 this year so far. One of the worst years ever for me. The fish that usually come in the back chasing bait have been ghost fish, the bait has been scattered, as well as the fish, definitely a year that will go down in the record books as one that I want to forget.

[clamchucker]

darkskies what you are relaying here is absolutely true.

[DarkSkies]

Thanks for the opinion Clamchucker.

*************
Was talking to some old-timers the other day, these guys know how to catch fish....What they had to say...

"This fall season is frustrating, you will be out on a bar with good structure, working your presentations hard. You may catch a fish or 2. Meanwhile a beach down the road, they will be slaughtering them, all because a pod of bait or fish came that way on that particular day....there is no rhyme or reason to this fall surf run in NJ."






I definitely agree with the above statement.

[cowherder]

I agree too, and felt that way many times. Today I didn't hear of any caught near the town I fished at.

[DarkSkies]

Met Tom from the Pennsauken Anglers Club. Originally part of the Jersey Surf Fishers.com, now defunct and joined the Pennsauken Club...




He fishes from May's Landing to Belmar, and moves around in the rivers and bays early season, to wherever the fish are...

I thought his above suggestion had some merit, so I'm posting it, along with his pic....thanks for your perspective, nice to meet ya! :HappyWave:

[DarkSkies]

Met "J" on the beach today.
He's 68...been fishing the salt for 60 years.



Some of the things we talked about....his responses in quotes:

The striper moratorium, 1982 NJ bass closure -
"You could go for 3 weeks back then without catching a bass. And when you did it was an achievement to catch, no matter what the size was. Now everyone today is focused on bigger and bigger. Thats no good!"

On the IBSP bite last year -
"I could have gone down there. My friends were fishing there every day. I hate those crowds and didn't go. I know I missed out but would rather fish an uncrowded beach. It's only in the last 10 years that our beaches have gotten crowded like that as more get into surf fishing."


NJ 2012 Season -
" This is my worst year fishing the surf in a long time. as for the fall, the hurricane just about ended it. There is very little food around for these fish."

Conservation -
"People are just keeping too many fish. Period."













**BTW, this old timer was high hook on the beach today, getting 5 or 6 bass while most of the rest of us got none or maybe 1.

[finchaser]

Met "J" on the beach today.
He's 68...been fishing the salt for 60 years.



Some of the things we talked about....his responses in quotes:

The striper moratorium, 1982 NJ bass closure -
"You could go for 3 weeks back then without catching a bass. And when you did it was an achievement to catch, no matter what the size was. Now everyone today is focused on bigger and bigger. Thats no good!"

On the IBSP bite last year -
"I could have gone down there. My friends were fishing there every day. I hate those crowds and didn't go. I know I missed out but would rather fish an uncrowded beach. It's only in the last 10 years that our beaches have gotten crowded like that as more get into surf fishing."


NJ 2012 Season -
" This is my worst year fishing the surf in a long time. as for the fall, the hurricane just about ended it. There is very little food around for these fish."

Conservation -
"People are just keeping too many fish. Period."












Thanks's to NObama's puppet from PEW Dr. Lubichenco (and her closures) who we are now stuck with.

Just a matter of time till the bass are wiped out and this time they can only blame us.

But remember save the bunker screw the bass the recreational guys have time to go to bunker meetings but not bass meetings what a bunch of mindless losers.

[DarkSkies]

Thanks, as always, for your perspective, Fin. :HappyWave:
The thing to remember here is that each of the old timers I interviewed here, has been fishing anywhere from 40-60 years in the salt....a lifetime of experiences....

When I first started this thread I had no idea where it would go....
But now as it has stood the test of time., it's interesting to here how the theme in the reponses is similar in many areas....
I submit that the old timers I interviewed have a better grip on what is happening out there than some of the scientists and bureaucrats, as these older fishermen are out there regularly, and have the best sense of anyone, of subtle changes that others might not notice.....

[buckethead]

Met "J" on the beach today.
He's 68...been fishing the salt for 60 years.



Some of the things we talked about....his responses in quotes:

The striper moratorium, 1982 NJ bass closure -
"You could go for 3 weeks back then without catching a bass. And when you did it was an achievement to catch, no matter what the size was. Now everyone today is focused on bigger and bigger. Thats no good!"

On the IBSP bite last year -
"I could have gone down there. My friends were fishing there every day. I hate those crowds and didn't go. I know I missed out but would rather fish an uncrowded beach. It's only in the last 10 years that our beaches have gotten crowded like that as more get into surf fishing."


NJ 2012 Season -
" This is my worst year fishing the surf in a long time. as for the fall, the hurricane just about ended it. There is very little food around for these fish."

Conservation -
"People are just keeping too many fish. Period."













**BTW, this old timer was high hook on the beach today, getting 5 or 6 bass while most of the rest of us got none or maybe 1.


Watch the older guys as they fish. It's the little things. Who better to remember moratorium fishing than them? Many of the most outspoken fishermen today taking about how epic fishing is, were in diapers in 1982. Just the facts, Jack.:laugh:

[buckethead]

A comment I read today on another forum. I don't know a lot about fishing South Jersey but this guy seems to. Thought it was interesting-

Waiting for the mullet run to start hoping that some big fish will be chasing the schools but not holding my breath. This has been the worst year for fishing south jersey since I started back in 1976.

[seamonkey]

buckethead I am not a sharpie and I have not been fishing since 1976 but I think the dredging has a lot to do with it. The beaches used to have a lot more structure. Now its different. The inlets and some of the jetties that are left are the only places that I have seen a lot of fish caught and the spring blitzes that my Dad talks about were years ago. I am jealous of you guys to the north because it seems the fish come in right to you and it is not too much of a deal to reach them. Wish we had structure like that down here.

[robmedina]

its my fault fellas- it's because I live here. If I lived in Florida the fishing would be bad there.

[buckethead]

^^^ Don't be so hard on yourself rob. We have all had nights where we think we stink and fishing would be better if we were not there. I got fish the other night, and last night and tonight struck out. Nature of the beast. Used to be a lot easier when there was more bait and fish. Oh those were the days.:fishing:

[blitzhunter]

This is a statement by Rich Troxler. He is a pretty experienced LI surf fisherman and old salt:
"Despite the claims of some that last year was a good year, if you take away the lucky roll of the dice that brought sand eels around our shores, it probably would have been the worst year that myself, and most everybody I know, have seen since the 80's. I'm not very hopeful for this spring, or next year for that matter."

[finchaser]

^^^ so sad and true

[hookedonbass]

^^^^^That sucks. I remember reading some reports how great the long island bite was for the fall of 2013.I guess it is bad all over. What a dose of reality

[DarkSkies]

I'm going to be using these mini interviews to raise awareness for those who don't believe the bass fishery has declined. If you can think of anything to add to this thread, positive or negative, feel free. Thanks. :HappyWave:

[VSdreams]

Hey ds saw this on another site hope its ok to post it here. Thanks for the hard work. I and my family appreciate it. We need to keep some stripers alive for tomorrow -




"I was just pondering the rise and fall of our fisheries. It was like yesterday that we were shagging for weakies at the Maul. Before that, in the early eighties, we were killing big weakfish en masse at Brandywine using just a bucktail and purple worm. The boats were so close to each other that an errant cast ended up in your neighbor's cockpit.
And then they were gone.
And then, stripers made a nice comeback in the Bay along with big drum and we were "strumming" our way back to Kutches (sp?) and the Maurice river marinas all loaded up.

And, now???? This past week, I decided to try Raritan Bay and was reminded of all our past glory, yet thought this too is destined for the same fate as our beloved Delaware Bay. As I approach my birthday in 2 days, closer to 70 than to 60, I wonder if we are going to destroy the last Buffaloes or will we learn from our experiences and ensure that future generations of anglers enjoy what we had.

It was all "Flossy"! I sure hope it comes back, but hoping won't do it. Conservation in every way is what is needed. Environmental control as well. We need to be part of the solution, not the problem."

[DarkSkies]

Thanks for the kind words, VS and others.....
My intention here is not to put forth my opinions, but hoping that sharing the experiences and valid recollections of others, some of the new guys will read and educate themselves.

I forgot to mention it at the time..... but a few weeks back I ran into Squidlips and Chicago Bill one morning when it was dead, after a pretty good bite just 12 hours before.....

Squid (Tommy) is a fixture on the NJ surfcaster scene and has quite a few surf-caught big fish to his credit. Chcago Bill has been fishing this area for decades....between the both of them over 100 years of fishing experience.....

They both agreed that this Fall was pretty poor overall compared to past seasons.
Of course, some who live local to the water, were out every dawn and dusk, might say that they have had a good year catching schoolies...but schoolies don't even register in the vocabularies of the gentlemen mentioned above....when they talk about catching dozens of fish, they are talking about fish in the 20lb class and above.....the abundance they speak of, is often lost among anglers who are new to the game, and really don't have that perspective, of experiencing the fishing, only a decade ago when it was very good, or more than a decade, when it was exceptional, before the stocks started to decline from over-fishing.

As I get a chance to speak to these and other old timers over the Winter, I will try to post more of their comments. :fishing: