Poaching and NJ, perfect together?

[DarkSkies]

How many times have you heard the following statements...
1. Poaching is no big deal, it's those netters who do the most damage to the fish.

2. The commercial poachers are the criminals, and should be locked up and have their boats confiscated, lose their licenses.

3. Poaching is so widespread, there's not much we can to to stop it, so why bother?

4. I have seen guys poaching at ****Inlet, but by the time I would call Fish and Game they would be gone anyway.

5. Most poachers are (insert Ethnic classification here)________, and usually illegal aliens. So, if I call on them, they will never show up in court anyway.

6. What poachers do, is none of my business, I'm not getting involved and risking a confrontation.

7. There are different types of poachers, the guys who sell the fish they catch to markets or restaurants are not hurting anyone.

8. I agree with poaching because sometimes in this economy, guys are out of work and it is better than robbing a bank.

[DarkSkies]

There is a thriving, organized, and very lucrative underground market for striped bass, blackfish, tilefish, and some other species in NJ. The demand in this black market is so strong that you can go to virtually any big city and find a fish market to sell your fish illegally.

This thread will string together a series of true stories to enlighten the folks out there who either believe this market doesn't exist, don't want to recognize its' existence, or truly have no understanding of how these things could happen.

This thread will try to provide details of how these things are carried out, and what role our Division of Fish and Game plays in the enforcement and prosecution of these cases.

Further, this thread will try to discuss the inadequacies of F&G enforcement in NJ as opposed to other states, why that strains the CO's beyond belief, and why, despite curent budget cuts, people need to understand they are doing the best job possible, with the limited budget they have.

Finally, this thread will attempt reasonable discussions as to why the current F&G enforcement laws have no teeth, allowing people charged with major poaching offenses to get off with a fraction of their original liability via plea-bargaining.


^* The above sentence is the single-greatest deterrent to efficient law enforcement for poachers in this state.
The logic flows like this....
a. We have a serious poaching problem in NJ.

b. Enforcement seems lax, because there are currently 10 or less CO's covering the whole state.

c. Serious (Serial) poachers know this. Some may complain that this discussion is too specific, blithely unaware that people poaching already know these details and have well-organized networks. Therefore, true (serial) poachers have little fear of being caught by enforcement, as they know they can operate in NJ with little chance of apprehension.

d. The general public, unaware of the extent of this, either turns a blind eye to the poaching they see going on, because they are unsure, or they are sometimes participants by wanting to buy striped bass in a fish market or eat "fresh grouper" in a restaurant.

[DarkSkies]

A documentary report is supposed to be un-biased.
Am I un-biased here?

I try to be, but honestly I must admit I do have strong biases.....

I love fishing for striped bass.
I love eating them, on occasion.

I don't want to see another moratorium or shut-down of our bass fishing..
I know from first-hand experience that the demand for illegal striped bass is high. Many times through the years I have gone to fish markets in search of clams or shedder crabs for bait when I couldn't find them anywhere else....and many times just the knowledge that I was fishing for striped bass has prompted the owner or manager of that market to offer to take all the striped bass I could catch and bring back to them, cash on the spot, no questions asked. :kooky: http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon9.png

So my agenda, if you will, is to
1. Raise awareness for those who don't know about it.
2. Convey an understanding of how big the poaching problem is, to folks out there who just don't know.
3. Let people know, that if they want to help, there are ways they can, anonymously, without endangering themselves.

These limited COs can't do it all by themselves, folks, they are asking for help from the public.
Part of the reason I'm permitted to relate these stories here, is that some of them want the public to feel inspired, and perhaps come forward with quality intel that will result in prosecution.

Remember, striped bass is a shared resource. :learn:
When someone takes more than their share, consistently, they are stealing from this shared resource. The way I view it, they're stealing striped bass, from you and I. I feel it is only with this mind-set, or understanding, that it will begin to sink in for some folks.


So thanks for reading! :HappyWave:
Feel free to comment, positive or negative.
And I'll do my best to educate you all a little better about this, and hopefully inspire some to further action, instead of us just ranting about it on the internet. :argue: :laugh: :don't know why:

[DarkSkies]

Some might have that question. Here is the answer:


Striped Bass
(includes Hybrid Striped Bass)
The possession limit for striped bass/hybrid striped bass is two fish. Two fish 28 inches or greater Anglers participating in the Striped Bass Bonus Program (http://www.scottsbt.com/fishing/stripers/striper1.htm) (click link for additional info) may possess an additional striped bass at 28 inches or greater. http://www.scottsbt.com/fishids/regsrecs/files/mesfish.jpgIt is illegal to take, catch or kill any striped bass form or in any marine waters of this state, by means of a net of any description, or by any methods other than angling with a hook and line or by spear fishing.
It is illegal to possess any striped bass, or parts of a striped bass from which the head and/or tail has been removed (other than while in preparation or being served as food), which is less than the legal minimum size.
Harvest and possession of striped bass from federal waters (outside 3 miles) is prohibited.
Sale of striped bass in N.J. is prohibited.




This came about partly because of the Act that made Striped Bass a Federal Gamefish in 1984 and was amended several times over the years...

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fstripersandanglers.com%2FForum%2F showthread.php%3F5714-Striped-Bass-Gamefish-act-of-1984-HB2655&ei=VF32TY6YDcbe0QGBt_nrDA&usg=AFQjCNGY8QGmbDXx8V6fDY2QpLj87jjgtg

http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?5714-Striped-Bass-Gamefish-act-of-1984-HB2655

[DarkSkies]

How rampant was poaching in the past?


From the JCAA website January 2000 newsletter...


"the illegal harvest and sale of striped bass in amounts for exceeding the established quota.

Although the fish underlying those arrests allegedly came from the New Jersey Side of the Hudson River, the illegal harvest of striped bass is endemic in New YorkJamaica Bay and Sheepshead Bay, as well as the Hudson River, supplya thriving black market in New York City, but illegal sale takes place whereever a restaurant or fish market is willing to buy a black market bass. Not to long ago, an entire tractor-trailer truckload with illegally harvested striped bass was discovered in the Shinnecock region of eastern Long Island.

The New York City area is a particular mecca for illegal striped bass activity because its substantial fish population is located so close to a human population center. The massed consumers create a huge market for wild striped bass, and many restaurants and fish markets are willing to break the law to profit from that demand, even if that means selling PCB-laden bass to unsuspecting customers. Such restaurants are fully aware of their actions, since all wild striped bass sold in New York must bear a tag, attached at the moment of capture, as it passes from fisherman to wholesaler to retail outlet. Any restaurant or market that purchases an untagged bass knows that it is dealing in illegal and possibly contaminated fish.

Unscrupulous fishermen and fish dealers, including those at the retail level, now fill their purses and threaten public health with little fear of apprehension. High-profile arrests like the ones in question are newsworthy because they are so rare. More typically, the interstate movement of fish is not involved, and violators are generally accused of breaking state conservation laws, rather than the Federal Lacey Act, and receive relatively minor penalties in state courts. Habitual violators balance the low likelihood of getting caught with the opportunities for substantial profit, and write off any fines they do receive as a cost of doing business."

http://www.jcaa.org/jcnl0001/0001FMLR.htm

[DarkSkies]

Some threads about fishing in the EEZ and commercial poaching.

Although this thread will deal specifically with recreational poaching, I'm linking as many threads as possible to this thread to make it easier for folks to learn:


http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?5801-Fishing-in-the-EEZ-a-Moral-dilemma-or-Economic-decision&highlight=poaching+NJ


http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?6470-Fishing-in-the-EEZ-NJ-thread&highlight=poaching+NJ


http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?3976-NJ-Gillnet-and-Commercial-netting-reports-2009-2011&highlight=poaching+NJ


http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?5974-Poaching-records&highlight=poaching+NJ

[DarkSkies]

Some threads that have relevance.....


http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?7324-Where-does-your-responsibility-begin&highlight=poaching+NJ


Unequal enforcement
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?6163-Immigrants-or-non-citizens-and-the-NJ-saltwater-license&highlight=poaching+NJ


Live blackfish
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?5834-Poaching-the-market-for-live-blackfish&highlight=poaching+NJ


New NJ DFW enforcement officers...here's an occurence I documented in 2009 as some more aggressive CO's were hired....
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?4223-New-NJ-DFW-enforcement-officers&highlight=poaching+NJ

[DarkSkies]

As I mentioned, these NJ CO's are looking to aggressively prosecute the biggest offenders. They ain't really looking to bust the guy on the pier or the jetty that has the 27 1/2" bass, though they will if they run across him.

However, since their time is so thin, they would prefer to concentrate on the serial offenders.

SERIAL OFFENDER: Someone who violates the Fish and Game laws on a regular basis, or has a consistent network for distributing and selling fish that they catch, usually to fish markets or restaurants.


The Case:
Some people I know had been complaining about a serial poacher, a guy who fishes where they do, and fills his cooler with short bass and keeper bass every time. When I asked why they didn't call it in, their response was" "Well we called violations in, in the past, and nothing ever gets done about it!!!!" http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon8.png

I can understand that, so I took up the slack. I called my NJDFG contacts, gave them as much intel as was available about this guy (kind of vehicle, description, specific illegal activities, physical description and characteristics, and places he was known to fish. At the time I called the CO, this guy had a cooler full of illegal striped bass, mostly shorts.

They managed to find a CO who was in the area that day. He was in court to testify on a case, but rushed down to bust this guy. Unfortunately, they got there too late, and I could not supply the license plate,:beatin: only the vehicle description and description of the guy.

The very next day, that CO called, said he was one town over, in a fishing area, and found a vehicle that matched the description he was given. :cool:

Since I still had not received the plate #, this CO decided to proceed with caution and not go around asking questions, so as not to spook the guy. If you want to catch someone with a prosecution that will stick, you want him when he has a cooler of illegal fish, or more.

Sadly, that investigation was tabled until the time when we can again provide the CO with intel of a cooler of illegal fish.

The point I'm making to folks out there....don't be disillusioned,,,,the CO's are aggressive and looking to make good quality arrests of serial offenders. :thumbsup: They can't do it without our help, though.

[DarkSkies]

6-9-11 NJ Poaching Investigation and relatively large recreational bust.....
A Timeline



Based on conversations we had and my comments to the CO that people were losing faith, losing trust, and losing belief in the system.... I apparently struck a chord with this particular CO.

He called me the next day to tell me he had successfully investigated and written $6,000 in tickets for a poaching operation.

Some of the general details he was able to discuss.....


- He developed intel through a phone call that a NJ fish market was selling illegal striped bass. He went to the market, what did he find??.......

[DarkSkies]

A 50lb bass for sale in the fish case!!! :eek: :bigeyes: :wow:

This fish was so big that it wouldn't fit in the case!
Tail sticking out, he described how he felt as he went to the market and saw this beautiful fish laid our for sale in the fish market. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon9.png

Along with this fish, there were fillets from other striped bass in the case.

[DarkSkies]

He was able to get the owner of the fish market to roll over on who was supplying the fish. It was allegedly a core group of guys who fished together, pooled all their fish when they got enough for 2-300lbs at a time, and then would allegedly bring them to the market for quick cash.

The fish market owner's intel led him directly to these guys, and they had a cooler full of striped bass in excess of their limit. Only a few of these bass were undersized, the rest were big girls. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon9.png

They were storing them in a $300 cooler on ice, (which was confiscated). These guys are well-off financially, have their own boats, and expensive gear. :don't know why: This kind of puts a hole in the argument that "it's mostly poor folks sellling fish to supplement their income". These guys were not hurting for money in any way. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.png


All told, at the end of the day they were able to round up about 200lbs of illegal striped bass, and a cooler worrth $300. The CO's wrote about $6,000 in citations. :clapping::clapping:

Of course, the guys will go to court, get a lawyer, and plead out for less fines. :rolleyes:
But at least this CO was doing his job. :clapping::clapping: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[DarkSkies]

Throw all of the racist characteristics and characterizations "The Asians this, the Spanish that, The Russians this...etc, etc etc".. out the window.


The CO informed me that their biggest offenders are the average white guys.
Gospel truth.

So ask yourself, anytime you know of a guy or group of guys who catch fish every day, big fish in the 30 and 40# class, beyond the capacity of many freezers....

Are they dumping these fish into dumpsters after they sat in the hot sun all day?
(this happens a lot more than people think, as well) http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.png


Or are they selling them to the local fish market or restaurant to buy that new reel they have been drooling over, or to finance their family's vacation to Fla?

Don't accuse people if you have no proof...you wouldn't want it done to you. But if you do have knowledge, solid intel with details....my door is always open. I have no problem making the calls if someone doesn't feel comfortable, but still wants to do something.

Confidentiality and discretion assured....contact me anytime and I'll do what I can to help, or else put you in touch with the right CO.


Remember that these fish belong to ALL of us, let's try to do the right thing by not averting our eyes when we see something like this. :thumbsup: :cool:

[baitstealer]

That was in-depth and thorough. I didn't know the gamefish act was why they cant sell striped bass. Glad they got those scum, I hope the judge makes them pay some painful fines, even though you said its not likely.

[storminsteve]

:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:Outstandin g research and documentation dark! Thanks for all you do. I may be contacting you for those numbers soon. There is a group of guys that used to fish the bridges we are now banned from, Total scumba**. If I start seeing them again I will call. I think that is an important distinction you make that they want descriptive info, otherwise how are they going to catch them?

[captnemo]

Very well done DS.

[nitestrikes]

We need stiffer penalties for LI and NJ, plain and simple.

[bababooey]

The CO informed me that their biggest offenders are the average white guys.
Gospel truth.



I concur with that statement, good job Dark.

[seamonkey]

Glad to see the wardens are doing their job. They just got these guys 2 weeks ago, good job!

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/breaking/bridgeton-man-charged-with-illegally-netting-undersized-striped-bass/article_cd554742-ddec-11e1-86f0-001a4bcf887a.html


Bridgeton man charged with illegally netting undersized striped bass, planning to serve in
(http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/#)






http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/pressofatlanticcity.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/a/ac/aacb8c6e-578e-5cae-bcd6-32a4a2b0faed/4f9f19c67922a.preview-300.jpg (http://stripersandanglers.com/news/breaking/bridgeton-man-charged-with-illegally-netting-undersized-striped-bass-planning/article_cd554742-ddec-11e1-86f0-001a4bcf887a.html?mode=image&photo=0)fish advisories107947459.jpg

A Bridgeton man faces charges of possessing 85 undersized striped bass and catching 77 more than the daily limit.









Posted: Saturday, August 4, 2012 12:45 am | Updated: 8:02 am, Sat Aug 4, 2012.
Bridgeton man charged with illegally netting undersized striped bass, planning to serve in restaurant (http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/www.pressofAtlanticCity.com/news/breaking/bridgeton-man-charged-with-illegally-netting-undersized-striped-bass-planning/article_cd554742-ddec-11e1-86f0-001a4bcf887a.html) By RICHARD DEGENER Staff Writer pressofAtlanticCity.com
A Bridgeton man has been charged with illegally netting striped bass that he apparently planned to sell in his Commerce Street restaurant.

Jian X. Shao, 47, faces charges of possessing 85 undersized striped bass and catching 77 more than the daily limit. The state Division of Fish and Wildlife, which is prosecuting the case, said Shao faces $19,000 in fines.
The case began when the division received a tip at 1:45 a.m. July 22 that five people were using a cast net to catch striped bass from the Fortescue Creek Bridge in Downe Township. It is illegal to net striped bass in New Jersey. They can be landed only by hook-and-line or spear fishing.
Armed with a vehicle description, marine conservation officers Thomas Swift and Jeremy Trembley went to the only road leaving Fortescue and at 2:15 a.m. pulled over the suspect vehicle.

According to authorities, a search uncovered a cast net and 11 striped bass under the legal size limit of 28 inches. Authorities said Shao claimed he caught all the fish so the others were not charged. That also left Shao facing charges of catching nine fish over the limit since people are allowed only two striped bass per day.
Authorities said those charges will be heard Aug. 15 in Fairfield Township Municipal Court, which handles court duties for Downe Township.

The officers also found that Shao owns the Fuleen Meng Restaurant on East Commerce Street, and at 11 a.m. July 22 conducted an inspection at the establishment, discovering 74 undersized stripers in a freezer. Shao was charged with catching 74 undersized fish and 68 fish over the daily limit. Shao also was charged with failure to provide accurate records of fisheries resources and for possession of striped bass for the purpose of sale. New Jersey banned the sale of wild striped bass in 1991.

The Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission, a compact of East Coast states that regulates migratory fish, gives out allocations for striped bass to the states. New Jersey, unlike other East Coast states, gives its commercial allocation to recreational anglers, 321,750 pounds a year, by allowing anglers to get a bonus tag to catch a third fish per day. Without a commercial catch, striped bass cannot be sold at restaurants unless it is a farm-raised hybrid variety.

The state’s case developed at the Fuleen Meng Restaurant is set to go to Bridgeton Municipal Court on Aug. 23.
Shao could not be reached for comment Friday.

[cowherder]

85 stripers that is just unreal! Glad they got the sob and hope they come down hard on him in court.:beatin:

[Monty]

85 stripers that is just unreal! Glad they got the sob and hope they come down hard on him in court.:beatin:
I'm a big believer in that with the current state of the people in this country that the penalty must exceed the crime. I hope they make an example out of this guy and give him the maximum fine and sentence.

[storminsteve]

Dark you said not to pick on the asians that poachers come from all races but lately when I see someone poaching its the Asians or the Mexicans. Take your pick I respectfully say that these 2 groups do the majority of the poaching and should be watched more closely. Glad they got this scumbag. Someone who lives down there should go and **** in his kitchen.http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.png

[ledhead36]

^ Thats the same groups I usually see in the river and raritan bay poaching in the spring. Hope they throw the book at that a-hole.

[buckethead]

Tom Swift is one of the good guys. See him down at the SRI and MI with the binocs on occasion. Great job men!:clapping::clapping:

[jigfreak]

Hope they hit them hard with fines. Bastards.

[buckethead]

Hope they hit them hard with fines. Bastards.

The only bad thing is they will prob plea out to a lesser fine. I agree they are basstards.

[paco33]

True dat buckethead.http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.png

[captnemo]

I can't stand these guys and the lame exuses they make for what they do.

[DarkSkies]

10-6-12 Blackfish Poachers Stopped....


When I finish with a fishing trip, I try to scout bay and inlet areas on the way home to get a feel for who's catching what. and where the different bait concentrations are.....

Blackfish season ...I believe the current limit is 1 fish per person., per day, at 15"

This morning I found myself in a popular blackfish area.
I noticed 2 Asian gentleman fishing near the top of the tide. They acted a little nervous when I looked their way and walked by.

I went to my car and took a little nap. I woke up just as they were getting ready to leave.
In 2 hours they had managed to catch 9 blackfish and 3 short sea bass.

The younger guy was carrying a big bag of fish back to a cooler in his Honda CRV (pic to follow)

He dumped all the fish in the cooler as I walked up to him and asked him what the limit was. He said "15", but the other fish are my cousin's." :kooky:
I was wondering how come he had 9, when the maximum limit was 2? (1 for each of them)

I started taking pics of his vehicle and his plates.
I asked him "You do understand English, don't you?"

He: "Yes I do"

Me: "Then why are you over limit on those blackfish?, and why did you keep those short sea bass too?"

He: "OK. OK, I put back no big deal!"





All of his fish went back into the water.
I should have called the COs....I have their cell #s...but I knew these guys were leaving and the CO would never get there in time......

[DarkSkies]

I don't encourage anyone to do what I did, though I'm completely comfortable with my actions.....
He won't be back there to poach blackfish anytime soon.....

And if he is, the next time I see him poaching I'll post his plate #...



The only way we are going to make a difference with poachers is to make a call when we see them.
Ignoring it won't make it go away. In the vast majority of cases these folks know they are breaking the law...

This guy, when confronted, "helped" me to throw his fish back......someone who didn't know what he was doing was wrong would not have done that.....


Again, please don't get involved to that extent...call the CO...but if you do call the CO you should have a good description of who the poachers are.....










*****if a guy is keeping a 27" bass or one fish over limit, please don't waste the COs time with that either....they do have a lot of cases to follow up on....

Please be as descriptive as possible when describing the offender....vehicle and license plate are most helpful....

[DarkSkies]

Pic of his vehicle..... Late model Honda CR-V

15542

[DarkSkies]

Making the call...it does work.....


The other day Finchaser observed 2 guys poaching,. one Asian male, and one Spanish male...they were blackfishing and keeping everything that came out of the water.....not one fish went back.......


He made the call.
The CO was in the area....
10 miinutes later the CO was interrogating those guys., and he walked them out of there to their vehicles to give them tickets....


You can make the same calls, folks...
They can't always come immediately, you should have an understanding of that.

They are short staffed and have to prioritize the calls...
If you want to see justice done, please be as decriptive as possible about the folks who are doing the action...

Physical characteristics, vehicle they are driving, etc.......
Don't expect they will be there in 10 minutes, because they are often far away from where you may be calling from....














The more descriptive you can be, the better the chances of them getting caught....especially if they are serial offenders.

****And please remember that the COs cannot bust every offender out there....they are primarily looking for serial offenders and those who may sell to restaurants or wholesalers. Those are the most cost effective cases to prosecute.......



So I'm asking you all to do your part...don't look the other way when you see poachers....
Make the call...thanks folks. :HappyWave:

[DarkSkies]

List of Poaching Hotline numbers:





"So please make those calls when you see violations. Don't take the law into your own hands and risk danger to yourself or your family.
Feel free to copy these numbers and keep them with you for easy reference."




NJ Operation Game Thief - 800-222-0456

NJ Poaching violations report (24hr hotline)
(877)-927-6337

South Jersey Warden -
609-748-2050

Cape May county
609-743-1149

Sandy Hook Fishing Violations - 732-872-5970
Sandy Hook General Info - 732-872-0115

US Coast Guard/OOD - 732-872-3428

Marine Enforcement violations - (609) 748-2050

http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=45
Commercial Regulations
http://www.njfishandwildlife.com/pdf/2008/comregs08.pdf

For any suspected Dumping or Environmental violations, DEP:
1-877-927-6337





http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?45-Sandy-Hook-IBSP-Info-NJ-Fishing-regulations-Violations-Reporting-Info
***Also if you have evidence of serial violators and want direct cell #s of NJ CO's in your area, feel free to PM me for those numbers.

[jigfreak]

All right dark and finchaser kicking *** and taking names. I have an idea where you were. I'll keep an eye out. About time someone stood up to them poachers. They take a lot of those small tog and sell them to the Asian markets in chinatown. You should have gotten them busted dark. I hate guys like that. Good move on throwing the catch back, you got balls dude.

[strikezone31]

:clapping:I tip my hat to you two, We need more people to do something instead of ranting about it at a later time.

[hookset]

New reg updates - As of July 10, the limit was 1 at 15" during this time (July 17) until Nov 15, when it then changes. good for you Dark, and thank you. i will call if I see any poachers.