Why are there no fish in Montauk right now?

[DarkSkies]

Y'all probably figured out my answer already, but I'll try to lay it out for you, step by step.

I met an old timer the other morning, we were talking about the lack of bass and big bluefish in the NJ surf so far..... He's been catching, but it's been very spotty for him. The guy has 50 years of experience, so I would think he knows how to catch a fish or 2....:)

He said to me:
"If there are no fish in the Montauk surf, and fishing is this slow in NJ, where are they???"

The answer to that prompted the idea for this thread.

I'll fill it in as I get time...:fishing:

[storminsteve]

Isn't that the thing that guys always say, "there are no fish in Montauk" even when there are? Dark are you trying to throw us off here?:rolleyes: The boats are catching them I have been reading the reports, so are you referring to the surf or what?

[surfstix1963]

Tis the season to be on the Lazybones diamond jigging in the Montauk rips the fish are in the rips and hitting fairly steady your best shot is early morning or the night tides in the surf otherwise jump on a boat.The bait is heavy in the rips damn I wish I could be there I love squidding out there it is the one time of the year I want to be on the boat rather than the surf.When you hit em its just non stop craziness at it's best.Capt. Mike and his crew are top notch no BS professional crew if you want to know whats up in the boat reports his wife Kathy is the one to listen to.Sorry for the plug for Mike but I don't want people going on the wrong boat I have once when his boat was full there is a difference between catching and not catching some are willing to try harder and yes you do have bad days on his boat also but thats fishing.Leave the spinning rods home they are not welcome on the boat if you never done it before its a blast talk to the mates his daughters(Serena and Rebecca) mate sometimes if Serena doesn't have a charter for her boat Lady Bones all the mates are more than willing to give instruction on casting and the technique of squidding.I know after 3 years of not being out there I will be a little rusty I had my reel all tuned and ready to rock maybe next year.:fishing:

[plugcrazy]

I don't know a lot about Montauk but I do know it is called the Mecca of surf fishing. A few of my friends were there 2 weeks ago and got one fish between all 3 of them from the surf. So yes I am curious, why is the surf action so bad this year? My friends said they always score on their trips up there and have been making the same trip near the end of Septtember for the last 10 years. What is different about this year from the last 9?

[pescador29]

Montauk is far and a lot of gas. I am catching fish where I live near Brooklyn.

[surfstix1963]

We used to go out every year for our anniversary in Sept.

10 years ago the surf seemed to be mobbed with bait and the surf fishing was much better.

we recently saw the last 5 years the bite getting later every year so we have gone as late as Nov.

I like it after Columbus day and the hotel rates drop the bait is staying off the beach.I generally diamond jig & the amount of fish when out on the boats are incredible sometimes

The other issue in Montauk is everyone seems to focus on the lighthouse which is mainly a nighttime bite. when everything quiets down the bait hides.
the fish look for the bait there are many places that are producing steady action but no one looks for them drive around and get familiar with Montauk all sides of it

their are so many little spots. the locals are not going to tell you where they are catching forget about it.

many overlook the sand beaches they provide better daytime action I have had bad boat days too and then you find out the fish were on the beach all day.

Things Happen It may be the Mecca but its no different then anywhere else if your just putting a day in you better be pretty damn lucky.

You need to put your time in there just like anywhere else. theres more to Montauk then the lighthouse.

[mick2360]

Well said^^^^. Forget the lighthouse and Turtle Cove unless it is deeeeeep into the night. Even this time of the year and with a good tide, there is plenty of room then. I favor the sand beaches during the daytime and the rockier areas at night. Put in your time, the fish will be there.....most of the time. If you don't catch, you have still fished some fabulous water. Better than raking leaves.....

[surfstix1963]

Thanks Mick I hate raking leaves too lmao

[stripercrazy]

Put in your time, the fish will be there.....most of the time. If you don't catch, you have still fished some fabulous water. Better than raking leaves.....

No offense meant but I feel that phrase is a little over used. Friends of mine have been hitting it up regularly. Very little bass action, even at night, until this Weds when it finally blew open. So the fish are around now with some regularity, 5 weeks later then they showed up last year. And I know about the two 40+ bass on Paulie's site.The thing is, there were 400 guys up there fishing that weekend and that's the best that came out of it.

The boat action has been good, the the surf action has sucked. Are YOU catching fish of any size at Montauk right now (before Weds) If you were to call that a hot bite, or even any kind of bite at all with 400 guys fishing, imo that would be delusional.:kooky: Just my 2 cents, of course.

[nitestrikes]

Montauk report yesterday from another site, any questions?

"Fished montauk today. I don't know whats going on, but montauk has been DEAD. From the town beaches , to ditch plains, to caswells, to camp hero,scotts,the weed bowl,north bar,stepping stones,shagwong,fort pond bay,and nappeuge.... saw a few schoolies, i caught a few blues today. Thats it"

[mick2360]

SC, NO offense taken. I drive five hours to hit M. My perspective is much different than that of an Island guy who gets to fish there at his whim; my bad, I should have made that clear. There are times when I make the drive down for the weekend and catch little but blues. I sleep a little and then hit the rock beaches at night. These can be long shifts. But I learned from watching the night guys and my rate of hook ups have improved. Just trying to give my perspective.

When I'm lucky, I get to M five times in the fall. I'm no expert but I work at it, apply what I've been told and learned on my own and once in awhile, one trip out of my five, I get lucky and get into some lights out fishing. I'll never weigh a fish at Paulies. What happens on the rocks stays on the rocks (he don't need my photos, I buy enough plugs there. Do I need 'em? Not really. It's an illness.).
Reports or not, I'm heading down next weekend and praying to the bass Gods for a good trip.

[SharkHart]

No offense meant but I feel that phrase is a little over used. Friends of mine have been hitting it up regularly. Very little bass action, even at night, until this Weds when it finally blew open. So the fish are around now with some regularity, 5 weeks later then they showed up last year. And I know about the two 40+ bass on Paulie's site.The thing is, there were 400 guys up there fishing that weekend and that's the best that came out of it.

The boat action has been good, the the surf action has sucked. Are YOU catching fish of any size at Montauk right now (before Weds) If you were to call that a hot bite, or even any kind of bite at all with 400 guys fishing, imo that would be delusional.:kooky: Just my 2 cents, of course.

Thats exactly right it was a very poor start to the surf seaosn and on the internet guys love to split hairs and if oneeeee bass is caught among 400 guys love to come on and say oohh nooo the run is ON 1 sey twosey were caught at night.

When i asked this question about 2 weeeks ago if anyone knew of a bite Mick u implied you were nailing lots fish and i should make my own reports, but im callign shennigans cause truthfully it sounds like you offering your opinion and you haven't been up there. A surf club i know of got one bass between 8 guys last week, the way i see it is a saved 400 miles until it gets better, Like Joe Friday would say .....Just the facts!

[mick2360]

Sharkhart, I posted in the last week in September that I fish Montauk in October and November. Re-read the post.

Shoot me a PM. I'll be there next weekend hoping to 'make my own report', always happy to meet someone from this site for a tide or a cup of coffee.

I guess what I want to say is that Bass are migratory and reports are what happened to someone else yesterday. I'm going to take my chances.

[DarkSkies]

I'm glad to see that we can all have different opinions without fighting. :cool:

Shark and Mick, I've fished with both of ya's and neither seems to know the meaning of the word quit when you're out there....:thumbsup: I think if you met each other on the beach, you would probably realize that you are more compulsive when out there, than a lot of guys. :fishing: I think that you would both get along, and you seem to have the same dedication, the only difference being that Mick can't fish as much because of work and family..... You both have the tendency to fish till you're ready to drop. :headbang:In my book, that makes for a dedicated fisherman, and someone who's likely to get a fish when others might not.

[DarkSkies]

I feel I may have given the wong impression with the title of this thread.

Yes there are fish in Montauk.

Yes the boats have been hammering them for some time....but even with the charters, there has been a shift in the dynamics how they fish...whereas in the past it was "pure bass" charters for all 2 or 3 daily trips that they did....there has now, in the last year or so, been a subtle shift to "mixed bag charters" where they fish for seabass, fluke, or porgies, and then shift to fishing the Rips when the tide is optimal for maximum bass activity..


Let's think about this here.... Montauk, as one of the main highways for bass migration, traditionally has had more than just a "bass in the Rips" bite.
EX- when the bite dies in other states, like NJ, Del, MD, MA, etc, you know you can always catch bass somewhere in Montauk, even in the heat of the summer.....
That is becoming less and less the case now....

I ask you this......
If the bass fishing was consistently so good in Montauk, WHY have the boats shifted to the mixed bag charters?
One reason put forth is that folks want other fish besides striped bass, and that other fish taste better......
My response to that is this....
People come from all over the world to fish Montauk for trophy striped bass...
It's highly unlikely that they would come to Montauk to fish for "trophy porgies" :kooky:






**Isn't it more likely that the charter captains, noticing a decline in the overall numbers of bass, are now touting this "mixed bag fishing" as the perfect spin for the concept of "family fishing" so as to take the focus off the fact that they are in fact doing more poorly on the striped bass than they have been?


Some facts to support this...
1. I monitor the Montauk Charter boats obsessively. In the past 2 years, the average fish being reported from Montauk charter boats is in the low 20's, (at times other than the Spring and Fall blitzes) and some in the teens. The "big" fish are not being caught in the numbers of the past, even as recently as 5 years ago...and this is just for the boats..
2. The overall size, and sheer numbers of the fish in the surf tournaments has been declining steadily...

[DarkSkies]

As for the surf....
Ask any old timer who fishes Montauk REGULARLY....the fish are not there like they used to be....and guys on the internet don't help it any by coming back from a Montauk trip and posting they had "epic fishing" when they had 3 or 4 hours of catching schoolie bass in the 24-28" class..... :huh:

That ain't epic fishing by any means, and if you are really of the opinion that's epic, that tells me you haven't been fishing that long.....:rolleyes:


So....
As of the last week,
YES,there are fish in the surf in the daytime at Montauk.
Yes, there are fish to be caught on the night tides....I've gotten reports of guys I know catching double digits of fish by experienced guys working those night tides.....

But, those catches above aren't likely to be attained by the average fisherman. And should not be relied on as evidence that "they're catching in Montauk, they're catching in Montauk!!!!" :wheeeee: :viking: "Run on up there, it's on!!!!!" :rolleyes:


The reason I created this thread is to try to illustrate to folks who don't know, that Montauk, the mecca of saltwater fishing, has had declining catches of larger fish for some years now...and to raise some possibilities of exactly why this could be happening...


The distinction between the boat and surf fishing is important here....
1. Many of the old timers will tell you that the surf fishermen get the "overflow" of bass and predators in the surf, during the spring and fall migrations.
2. For places like NJ, we have had a shift in our surf fishing. It's gradually declined in the last 5 years. This could be because of a shift of striped bass to offshore migration on their way to Montauk and points North. However, if there is a shift in the quantity of fish caught in the surf at Montauk, this cannot be explained merely by referring to the offshore shift, as Montauk has always been in the center lane of the migration highway......
3. Fish not being there in numbers for the surf guys, it's not an accident, late season, or merely a temperature thing....it's more likely than not, an indicator of an overall decline...
4. I tend to be long-winded when I'm passionate about something....I hope this thread has been an education for some here, as I have tried to make it as interesting as possible...


As always, please be aware that these are my opinions. Although there is strong anecdotal evidence backing my statements here, I would love to hear someone who has a different opinion, explain that opinion and tell us why...in this way we foster learning and awareness at a higher level.....

Additionally, if any charter capts have logs to disprove what I'm suggesting here, IE if you have log books with striped bass catches documented to prove you are catching more bass, and bigger ones, than you were catching 10 years ago in Montauk, then by all means please share them with us....

Thanks for reading, folks. :HappyWave:

[7deadlyplugs]

Thank you for your honesty.

[RJC]

Yes, There are no fish to be caught in the Montauk Surf. Last weekend! But Columbus Day Weekend - According to everyone I spoke to last weekend, the crowds fishing the beaches clobbered a ton of fish. Paulies girls said they almost ran out of everything in the store. The girl at the Montauk Bake Shop said the whole town smelled like fish. My weekend was a blur of wind, rain, and a ripping tide aong the southern beaches that took any lure, any weight EAST almost faster than you could turn towards the Point.

Mike O, a visiting Brit with 15 years of fishing Montauk in two and three week bites, is the only one I know who caught a keeper (31" Striper). He's one of those wet suit craizies who thinks standing on a rock out front is the only way to catch fish. The other four Brits, myself and Mick and his wife all found no joy in the surf at MP last weekend.

I hope they will connect before they head back across the pond in early November. You too Mick. I'm back "Down the Shore" and will be giving the North End Beaches (Sandy Hook to Asbury Park) and the Shrewsbury and Navesink Rivers my best shot. We are hearing about a little bass action
and the water is turning cooler.

We have had mullet pods schooling south along the beaches for more than a month with very little predation evident. The cooler nights should move other bait species out of the tribs and on around the tip of Sandy Hook. November has always been the best month to connect with fish inside and outside, from Sandy Hook and then along the Jersey Shore beaches.

Montauk is the East End and its beaches face South. Sandy Hook is the North End and its beaches face East. Montauk responds well to N and NE winds, and the Jersey Shore responds best to West and Southwest winds. The East End and the North End are just short of 200 miles apart. Four hours in the dark of night, using Staten Island, the Brooklyn Beltway and Sunrise highway.

I did it last weekend on 25.3 gallons round trip. Atlantic Highlands to Montauk and back without a fill up. My 5.3 L, GMC pick up has a 26 gallon tank and the fill up in NJ cost 83.20 at 3.25 a gallon when I got home on Monday. Add the GSP, OBC and VN road &bridge tolls and your looking at a $100.00 bill to roll either way. My low fuel light came on as I entered NJ on the Outer Bridge Crossing from SI.

Mick I'll call you when the large ones arrive. We have a sandwich shop here in Highland, NJ, that has a breakfast burrito for $4.00 that will make you knees go weak and put your weight loss program on hold.

You East Enders have my condollences on the $4.00 a gallon gas prices.

[finchaser]

Bass are on the decline this is how the crash started last time and there are millions more guy's fishing for them now. Dr. Lubchenco with Nobama's blessing , closing down almost ever thing else has all head boats pursuing them in the spring and fall. We need new regulations ASAP.

[RJC]

Bass are on the decline this is how the crash started last time and there are millions more guy's fishing for them now. Dr. Lubchenco with Nobama's blessing , closing down almost ever thing else has all head boats pursuing them in the spring and fall. We need new regulations ASAP.

finchaser Striped bass are not endangered. The red flag number for us to become concerned is 37.5 million. The species is currently in excess of 60 million. A moritorium was declared in 1985 when the coastal assessment hit a mere 5 million striped bass. ASFMC was created to turn that number around. in 1996 by use of a coast wide approach and lengh limit enforcement the stock estimate was declared fully recovered at 40 million fish.

The striped bass assessment committee is meeting in 2 weeks to make decisions on striped bass technical committee recommendations for management of the species. One of the most important decisions that will be made will be a to implement harvest restrictions on known striped bass spawning grounds in the Albamarle Sound/Roanoke River, Chesapeake Bay tributaries and the hudson River by 50% or more. A move in that direction in the Hudson River will derectly impact recreational fishing on the Hudson from March to June, 2012. It won't affect head boat or commercial fishing because there hasn't been any of that kind of activity in the freshwater tidal portion of the Hudson River north of Bear Mountian in 4 decades.

Trying to make headboats the enemy is a waste of time and effort. They are not the enemy and their customers are folks like us.

Trying to tie the can to Obama's tail on fishing issues is pure pie in the sky political smearing. I don't like him or his policies, but I exercise my comments on his record on a political forum and not a fishing forum.

I am what you would call a conservative, old white man who hasn't voted democrat since I voted an absentee ballot for John F. Kennedy in November, 1960. I was sitting in the belly of a US Navy LPH Carrier off the coast of Siagon, RVN while there was a SVN Paratroops coup attempt going on. My Marine battalion was the Assualt BLT for Fleet Marine Force, Pacific at the time. The SVN Navy and Marines put the coup down in a week, so we didn't have to go in and kick paratrooper *** that week. The dems haven't put up anyone qualified since JFK. JMHO.

[finchaser]

RJ
I agree with you and appreciate what you did for what's left of this great country.

The Obama part comes from all the fisheries shut down by Dr. L who was hired by him, (knowing her ties to PEW)these closures add to depletion not accounted for in the equation putting more pressure on the bass.. Most of her staff came from Pew and other tree hunger organizations. I can't stand him either.. I AM NOT POLITICAL SMEARING his already tarnished image and record just stating facts to making sure people who voted for him, know he is not the fisherman's friend. . Just last week the RFA asked Obama to replace her and her staff because they are ruining fishing for everyone trying to implement his fish shares program which practically destroyed fishing in the UK. I can't imagine buying shares to catch and keep fish can you ?
This is part of their master plan. I also go to all the meetings.:HappyWave:

[RJC]

Good man, Bob. He's not going to cut the hugger's loose. We need to get a strong ABO vote rolling for November 2012.

Anybody but Obama.

RJ aka Mr. Bob due to my lenthy time on the planet.

[finchaser]

RJ aka Mr. Bob due to my lenthy time on the planet.

RC aka Mr. Bob do to my lenthy time on the planet I know the feeling:thumbsup:

[DarkSkies]

Some interesting perspectives here, thanks for all the different viewpoints. :thumbsup:


I wanted to break down some definitions for here and other threads,. will add to this post as I get time.....


Endangered -

In Danger-

Declining-


Overfished -

Overfishing-

[RJC]

Add

Not Endangered


Not Over Fished.

Over Abundent

Impacting Major food sources

[mick2360]

Fished the drop on the sand beaches....zippo. Then my BIL, Will, nails a couple od schoolies on the long rod. Hey Will, :2flip:

[surfstix1963]

Is dead on the beaches I'm having my coffee as I type nice water no fish no bait for that matter.Slow might be a night bite the rips are holding decent fish alot of blues and some nice size bass from a very good source.Sux being here and not fishing maybe I'll start boat fishing again.Whats going on out here 7-11's salivars is closed gonna be Manhattan soon.

[bababooey]

Not Over Fished.

Over Abundent

Impacting Major food sources

Can you explain this then? I don't know the answers, but only fish for them when all you guys out there report the blitzes. Otherwise, when I take my kids out on the boat, we have a better chance of a successful day if we target fluke or bluefish, My .02



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE, MARCH 24, 2011
PRESS CONTACT, TINA BERGER, 703/842-0740

ASMFC Atlantic Striped Bass Board Initiates Addendum to Reduce Fishing Mortality


Alexandria, VA – The Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission’s Atlantic Striped Bass Management Board has initiated development of Draft Addendum III with the goals of reducing striped bass fishing mortality (F) up to 40% and further protecting spawning stock when it is concentrated and vulnerable. The addendum was initiated in order to allow managers to promptly respond to the results of the stock assessment update in the fall if necessary. Provisions of the addendum, if passed, could be implemented prior to the start of the 2012 fishing year.

The Board’s action responds to recent trends in the fishery and resource, including a 66% decline in estimated recreational catch from 2006 to 2009; a 25% decline in estimated striped bass abundance from 2004 to 2008; and lowered recruitment in recent years. Additionally, states in the northern extent of the fishery have expressed concern over decreased availability of striped bass as a result of the diminished water quality in the Chesapeake Bay during the summer months that may also contribute to increased prevalence of mycobacteriosis in striped bass.

Draft Addendum III will propose a range of fishing management measures including, but not limited to, adjustments to commercial and recreational minimum size (for jurisdictions outside Chesapeake Bay and Albemarle Sound/Roanoke River), reductions in annual coastal commercial allocation, reductions in recreational bag limits, revisions to the target F rate (for Chesapeake Bay and Albemarle Sound/Roanoke River), and reductions on fishing for striped bass in known spawning areas during the spawning season by at least 50% (for jurisdictions bordering the Hudson River, Delaware River, Chesapeake Bay and Albemarle Sound/Roanoke River).

The commercial and recreational fishery is currently managed through Amendment 6 to the Striped Bass Fishery Management Plan. The Amendment, passed in 2003, allocates the coastal commercial quota and set a two fish bag limit and a 28 inch size minimum for the recreational fishery, with the exception of the Chesapeake Bay fisheries, Albemarle Sound/Roanoke River fisheries, and states with approved alternative regulations.

The Draft Addendum will be developed for preliminary review by the Atlantic Striped Bass Management Board in August. For more information, please contact Kate Taylor, Fishery Management Plan Coordinator, at ktaylor@asmfc.org or 703.842.0740.

[mick2360]

Is dead on the beaches I'm having my coffee as I type nice water no fish no bait for that matter.Slow might be a night bite the rips are holding decent fish alot of blues and some nice size bass from a very good source.Sux being here and not fishing maybe I'll start boat fishing again.Whats going on out here 7-11's salivars is closed gonna be Manhattan soon.

Surfstix, Beach looked awesome this morning. Damned fish didn't get the memo. Going to keep trying next couple of weekends. Water still seems warm enough to swim in, not that this is any real indicator but I'm hoping a couple of degrees will school 'em up. Lots of guys walking around shaking their heads but saw some positive guys coming in off the night shift.

I have mixed feelings on the 7-11; great for that early am cup of coffee but chains are rarely a good thing. :scared:

[DarkSkies]

Mick and Surfstix, hope you get some nice tans while you're up there, not much else happening except the weekend drink specials....and that doesn't do guys like us much good, Mick. :HappyWave:

Got a report today that some NJ kayak guys went up there and did poorly. If you can't catch large amounts of fish in a kayak or boat, they just ain't there in numbers....

And if they're not there on Oct 23, with little more than 6 weeks left to the season....where are they?
Canada? :huh:

[DarkSkies]

This is also the first really successful year class since 2003, and it comes at a time when most signs have indicated the fishery was in real trouble

This is certainly a positive development for striped bass, and while this boost to the population is something to look forward to, it is also important to consider these points:

2.It will be 8 years before this year class will be 28 inches long and legally available to the coastal fishery. Long before then all but a few remnants of the 2003 year class, which provides most of the current coastal catch, will have died of old age. Current coastal commercial quotas and recreational harvest are clearly excessive considering the gap that exists between the 2003 and 2011 year classes.

Some states, especially those with commercial fisheries, will see this year’s Young of the Year survey as a solid excuse not to reduce fishing mortality on striped bass.







Guys, thanks for the responses on this. I realize everyone who posts in this thread cares abouit striped bass, every single one of ya's.
Although we may not agree on all the points, I feel the point I highlighted above is one of the key ones I wish people would realize. One year does not a fishery make. The fishing at Montauk is the worst it has been in years. Fish are in the Rips and Block Island/Plum Gut/The Race, but the existence of those fish does not "prove" that the numbers are healthy.

Over and over again, it's been drummed into my head that the fish on the edges, beaches, sedges, rivers, and points, are a better indication of the health of the fishery because those are the fish that make up the variation in the statistical spread as it's calculated.

Can you really count 36 million fish?
Absolutely not.

As RJ correctly points out, there has to be some accepted statistical method of assessing the size of the biomass. We have to accept some standards.

I agree, but feel with all of the evidence we have before us, the system of assessing the numbers of these fish is flawed. I would go as far to say that I feel it's broken, but some would argue with that.....

And I'm not looking to argue here, just to understand...

Why veteran anglers who fish 5 days or nights a week can't seem to connect with the fish like they used to...

Why the best of the best in the fishing clubs in NJ and LI have not been able to consistently catch fish at Montauk this fall, even on the night shift?

Why the average size of striped bass reported by Montauk and other adjacent area Capts has been declining... Please... I know about the biigger bass, I read the reports obsessively...but the average size is declining..with the exception of the last few weeks, many charter trips have returned with bass in the teens and low 20's..if these are the only fish they were catching, where are the bigger fish?

Why, with barely 6 weeks left in the fall 2011 fishing season, are we still waiting for the Montauk "fall run" to show some life?






There are too many variables that are melting down to dismal reports this fall.
I'm hoping that folks out there are paying attention....

Some of the early trailblazers and conservationists like the OFFC have bowed out of the politics as they felt it was too tiresome to keep explaining this over and over again.


Finchaser only has limited energy to keep his "rants" up. ;) Someday soon, he may give up the fight as sometime it feels like there are too many conflicting theories out there......All we know is, with or without science to support it, we are collectively catching less fish, and working harder to catch the ones we do....



If this doesn't give anyone reason to think about, then don't claim you tried to help when there are even less bass to catch, as we wait the 8 years for this 2010 class to mature....

[BassBuddah]

Why the average size of striped bass reported by Montauk and other adjacent area Capts has been declining... Please... I know about the biigger bass, I read the reports obsessively...but the average size is declining..with the exception of the last few weeks, many charter trips have returned with bass in the teens and low 20's..if these are the only fish they were catching, where are the bigger fish?

Why, with barely 6 weeks left in the fall 2011 fishing season, are we still waiting for the Montauk "fall run" to show some life?


Well said DS. This is my worst year at Montauk in 15 years. Not only are the fish not around the obvious places like the point, they are thinly distributed, as a friend of mine calls it.
According to my logs, it is less than the 6 weeks you mention, dark, up here we only have about 4 weeks left.
Here is a report from Nov 2010 the montauk Sportfishing site confirming your statement about declining sizes:



November 22, 2010

It’s been a pretty good week, three days without wind.The herring are here, and plentiful right at the mouth of the Inlet, so the first step for most boats is to make a couple of drifts with the Sabikis and load up on them. The next step is to head on down to the Point, look for the birds, and start catching bass, lots of them. No big ones though. Just about everything is 10-12 lbs.... Except for the time just after the herring arrived, November wasn’t all that great.

[RJC]

babaloey - I answered your question in the Hudson River Reprise thread. Darkskies, babaloey's questions answer might have given a reason your pier and river rats are not seeing the numbers there as well. At least in their spring fishing numbers. Check it out.

2003 was a good year for Chessy Bay fish, but 2007 was the largest class year for Hudson River Tribe fish since they began to do the YOY net haul records. 35 fish per haul. The HR average over the years is 14 fpnh compared to the chessy's 4fpnh historical average. The HR contributes less, but it contributes quality fish in high numbers and a productivity level 65% higher than the beat up and abused waters of the Chesapeake Bay. 2015 will ring your chimes with Hudson River fish. The Chessy Bay high you are excited about was only 11 fish per net haul. Those 35 fish per net haul out of NY will rock you in 4 years and continue to fill in the empty spaces till the "good" class year Chessy fish have any impact.

The North of Cape Cod anglers will barely see a bump in their numbers from the 2007 and almost as good 2011 Chessy "good" class years, while everyone south of Race point will enjoy relatively good years, thanks to the Hudson River Tribe in 2015 and beyond. Those Hudson River baby's summer from Race Pt. MA to Cape May, NJ. Wowzaaah!

PS the system is working. See my "reprise" thread.

Mick, we are just starting to connect with fish here on the North End of the NJ Beaches. A friend did a night trip to the rip at SH Sat. night and they boated 33 fat striped bass to 30 pounds. They kept 6. Clams and eels did the trick.

I see M has SW winds again today and tomorrow. Peanut bunker are starting to move out of the Shrewsbury and Navesink rivers.

[fishinmission78]

2015 will ring your chimes with Hudson River fish. The Chessy Bay high you are excited about was only 11 fish per net haul. Those 35 fish per net haul out of NY will rock you in 4 years and continue to fill in the empty spaces till the "good" class year Chessy fish have any impact.



How can you make such rosy predictions for 2015 when the fishing sucks so bad right now? Over the last 2 weeks I watched miles of bunker schools off Lavalette, not even small bluefish were harassing them. One day last week my friends got into fish on the boats, one day out of 15. I was hoping someone in this thread would say all the bass were hiding behind a big rock at montauk, guess not. Want to sell me a bridge that connects brooklyn and manhattan too?

[jigfreak]

I was hoping someone in this thread would say all the bass were hiding behind a big rock at montauk, guess not.

Yessir, 2,500,000 of them are hiding behind the 3rd set of rocks furthest from the point. I can't figure out where else they could be either. Certainly not in my neck of the woods.

[RJC]

How can you make such rosy predictions for 2015 when the fishing sucks so bad right now? Over the last 2 weeks I watched miles of bunker schools off Lavalette, not even small bluefish were harassing them. One day last week my friends got into fish on the boats, one day out of 15. I was hoping someone in this thread would say all the bass were hiding behind a big rock at montauk, guess not. Want to sell me a bridge that connects brooklyn and manhattan too?


Ahh! fishinmission. You don't understand the mechanics of YOY Striped Bass collection.

The summer of 2015 the largest birthing of Hudson River strain striped bass in recorded history, will put many more fish at your Lovealott doorstep for the whole spring, summer and fall of 2015.. They will be 8 years old and about 28 inches that summer. The ladies of that class year will have deposited about 250,000 eggs each in the Hudson River in Mid May. This breed of striped bass spends their summers between the southern beaches of Cape Cod and Cape May. At the end of the summer, a large group will stage off of the NJ beaches and filter intothe Hudson River to winter over in the salty lower end at Haverstraw Bay.

Here is a reading assignment for the winter for you. Get the Ocean County library to order you this book. Fly Fishing for Striped Bass by Ric Murphy. It is a $60.00 book. But if you like it, you can probably order it used (ordered but not sold) from Amazon for half that amount.

Your probably not a fly fisherman, but if you want to understand striped bass the first 122 pages will make you an expert in the life and times of this fish. Once you read the first 122 pages. No short cuts or wanderings. (I made that mistake my self. took me a couple of years to realize the mistake I made.) Read the forward, the introduction and then the 122 pages. you will be amazed. You will astonish your family and friends with your knowledge of the finest fish in sight of our coastal environment.

In those pages he touches every second of the life of a striped bass that grows to be 55 pounds and 20 years old. He puts you inside the fish and the magnificent, functioning of its mind, body, vision and scenting. Its birth, migration experience, hunting ability, everything.

When you complete the first 122 pages, I want you to PM me and let me know how you liked it. Don't push it away. You will regret it.

PS The Hudson River has been pumping fresh, muddy water into the ocean for a month. That is slowly being adusted by the tide as we speak. I believe that huge run off even from the 25,000 sq. miles the Hudson River Watershed drains has held up our coastal fishing for at least a month. Irene and Leigh did us no favors. The peanut bunker are starting the exit the back bays. Sharpen your hooks and gird your loins.


PS - You seem to be a lot like me, so let me tell ya its got gonzo photos, diagrams, side bars, and fishing tips it would take you a lifetime to learn. :HappyWave:

[mick2360]

Mick and Surfstix, hope you get some nice tans while you're up there, not much else happening except the weekend drink specials....and that doesn't do guys like us much good, Mick. :HappyWave:

Got a report today that some NJ kayak guys went up there and did poorly. If you can't catch large amounts of fish in a kayak or boat, they just ain't there in numbers....

And if they're not there on Oct 23, with little more than 6 weeks left to the season....where are they?
Canada? :huh:

Yup, one of the yakker's, a nice gentleman from NJ, reported nothing on the northside for Saturday. Said he planned to hit the light area pre dawn as "that's when the fish would be in." Hope he did okay. Things are grim. One fattie was weighed at Paulies. I didn't run over for the details but it was a decent fish.

I'll be back this Friday for the weekend warrior shift. Like Mick Jagger used to sing, "Tiiiiiimmmmeeee is on my side." I have to believe it , Dark. It's all I've got left at this point. :kooky:

[mick2360]

RJC, First couple of weeks in November are free. I will have done my bit pumping cash into the Montauk economy and will be heading for NJ. As a New Yorker, I am duty bound to do 55 in the passing lane of the GSP on the way down. Let's see if we can get some of the jersey guys out for a tide with us. I hear this guy Darkskies has a nicely outfitted goog bucket.

[RJC]

I haven't met him, eyeball to eyeball yet. But from what i hear and see on this site and via the wonder of cel phones, Darkskies would have fit like a glove with the worm crew at Quonny Pond. We could put him between Mully and the Knight and watch the sparks fly. November eary weekends are good for me.Later I need to hunt ducks and then eat Turkey in the second half.

[fishinmission78]

Ahh! fishinmission. You don't understand the mechanics of YOY Striped Bass collection.

The summer of 2015 the largest birthing of Hudson River strain striped bass in recorded history, will put many more fish at your Lovealott doorstep for the whole spring, summer and fall of 2015.. They will be 8 years old and about 28 inches that summer. :

I am not understanding your rose colored predictions here RJC. Based on one year class? Do bass mature to full size in one year or is this a typo? If one year class is so good, maybe we can get this magical year class to promote world peace and conquer hunger at the same time. I just don't see the logic here. Let's hear about your catches, how many big fish did you catch this year? How many did you catch 5 years ago?
Upper Ocean county is a dead zone right now. One 15lb bass weighed in at B&N yesterday. The occasional small bass, miles of bunker, and the life in the ocean resembles the water after the Exxon Valdez dumped oil.

[RJC]

fishinmission. I was just explaining the yoy projection of the 2007 year class to you. No magic. I've been fishing the beach for 5 weeks and know full well of the large bunker schools and the steady progression of mullet pods moving down the beach from me to you with minimal is any predator activity noted. I've only seene a single large swirl of birds feeding about 500 yards out from Monmouth Beach, just south of the Shrewsbury Rocks this season.

The predators are begining to show up here at the north end of the beach 33 striped bass to 30 pounds were caught in the Sandy Hook rip on Saturday night sing a combo of eels and clams. The Bridges are starting to give up striped bass to 31 inches the past few day of a dropping tide. I'm just a frustrated as you are, my friend. I came back to my roots here in Atlantic Highlands to fish the Fall Migration and so far all I've put back in the ocean are short striped bass and a single bluefish.

Discussing the yoy and dreaming for a better year in the future is what my post is about.

The cruddy water your talking about is the run off from the Hudson River after it soaked up two very wet hurricans in its 25,000 sq. mile water shed. The salt line was pushed 40 miles south and down past Sandy Hook. Muddy water, debris and assorted junk. We don't control the weather and Irene and Leigh did us no favors. Get over it. Its getting better. November will be a lot better than the past 5 weeks.

[storminsteve]

The cruddy water your talking about is the run off from the Hudson River after it soaked up two very wet hurricans in its 25,000 sq. mile water shed. The salt line was pushed 40 miles south and down past Sandy Hook. Muddy water, debris and assorted junk

rjc, thanks for the input and while I am respectfully not trying to start an argument, I wonder where this 40 mile salt line has been pushed to? i fished Sandy Hook this morning and the water was crystal clear. And salty, as some of it crashed on the beach and I tasted it as I was casting. So could you please explain what you meant here? thanks.

[RJC]

rjc, thanks for the input and while I am respectfully not trying to start an argument, I wonder where this 40 mile salt line has been pushed to? i fished Sandy Hook this morning and the water was crystal clear. And salty, as some of it crashed on the beach and I tasted it as I was casting. So could you please explain what you meant here? thanks.

Steve I was discussing the run off that ended about a week ago. The Hudson River is normally salty up to about the Bear Mountain Bridge. The salt line was pushed south and into the Atlantic from the two storms (Hurrican and Tropical) that dumped milions of gallons of fresh rain water on Upstate NY and Vermont. All that water drains thrue the watershed and intothe Hudson. The volume overcame the atlantic tides and kept the salt line in to the Atlantic for about a month.

The fresh water deluted the salt content and a lot of pure salt water fish like blue fish, bonito and false albacore shy away from it. Now that the ocean is getting back to normal we should see a rebound of fish along the NJ Beaches.

[BassBuddah]

I was looking for a thread to add my summer observations to. This one seemed appropriate. I have been fishing the big M consistently for about 20 years, Summer and Fall. Last Fall was the worst one since I started keeping logs. I was hoping this summer would turn out better for we who fish the Point at Montauk and the night tides at different places there.
I have gone out there for the last 2 weekends. My results are not encouraging. Each weekend my biggest fish were only in the mid teens. First weekend I managed 2 teeners to 15 lbs. Last weekend I managed 1 thirteen pounds. There were a few small schoolies and bluefish. All on the night tides, into sunrise. And a few bluefish as well.
According to my logs the 2nd week of June has consistently been a point where the action starts to heat up.
We have water temps around 67 degrees there right now, and it has been as low as 61. This is good temperature for bass and they should have been there in greater numbers. This concerns me. I am hoping things will turn around for the fall but am not optimistic. The boats are doing well out in deeper water. We have had a lot of small whitebait run through the Point and the fish should be there but they are not.

[williehookem]

Written by Capt Gene Kelly


8/13/12

When the boat next to you isn’t sailing that’s a recession and when you aren’t sailing that’s a depression and right now things are pretty depressing for the Montauk charter fleet. Friday and Saturday are always the busiest days (Sunday traffic scares a lot of people) and when I made my early morning check this past weekend there were a couple of boats still tied up that shouldn’t have been. And this is August, normally the busiest month when most of the established boats would normally be sailing every day unless they were blown out. And now, most are lucky to get in four to five trips a week.

I run a charter service and most of my calls come after potential clients have gotten tired of calling boats only to find out they are booked. Back in the early spring I was getting inqueries which is very unusual so I thought that this would be a better year than last year, which was a pretty poor one. But I guess as all the poor economic news developed, people started to change their minds about how they were going to spend their $$$.

Now most of my calls are from individuals looking to join in with others on a shared charter, which we used to call a “splits” until they became extinct. Years ago when I started out splits were very common and all the old timers remember Tuma’s Tackle Shop where Mrs. Tuma would coordinate things. You’d hang around in front of the shop until she would call you and give you six anglers to take out. Nowadays there is no central booking agency where that can be done. All the charterboats are getting calls from singles or doubles that want to join up with some others on a trip, and undoubtedly every day at least one trip could be put together.

As I always say when I hear guys moaning and groaning about the business; “It could be worse, I could own a boat”.
As for the fishing, you could check back with last weeks report. It’s pretty much the same. There are a good amount of makos around and if you go sharking you will probably catch - and release - one. Tuna fishing is nothing to get excited about

On an overnighter you will probably catch a couple of yellowfin and maybe a bigeye, but what is considered a good catch these days would have been considered a poor one a couple of years ago.

Inshore striper fishing is still tough and Southwest Ledge isn’t looking as good as it was. Bottom fishing is good for porgies and sea bass and OK for fluke.

[plugginpete]

Written by Capt Gene Kelly
, but what is considered a good catch these days would have been considered a poor one a couple of years ago.

Inshore striper fishing is still tough and Southwest Ledge isn’t looking as good as it was. Bottom fishing is good for porgies and sea bass and OK for fluke.

Capt Gene knows his sh*t, one of the best out there.
some boat reports from this weekend -

Montauk bass - "Fished from 9am-1 pm yesterday and had 2 stripers around 15 lbs. Didn't see much else happening; seemed pretty quiet."


Montauk boat - "We fished 4 Hrs Friday and 7 Hrs Saturday and only boated 1 Blue fish. Probably 200 hundred boats in the fleet and we saw very few fish boated.
I am sure the fish will show up Sunday since I am not fishing. "

[BassBuddah]

I think what happens is a lot of the folks who go up there have been fishing less than 10 years. True the older guys are there but in recent years I have seen a lot of newer guys in the 20's come up. For some of them it is their first time. some don't even have korkers which can get dangerous if you try to follow the fish as they move. In my opinion the fishing at Montauk 10-15 years ago was much better. We would have sustained blitzes all day. There would be many 30 and 40 lb fish. Today an 18lb fish is considered a trophy. That is because a lot of these younger folks just don't have that perspective, of the Montauk of years past.
They don't have any bass in their area, they take the long ride, they catch over 10 fish in a day and it's epic. I can understand the enthusiasm but my past 2 years at Montauk I have not done as well as previously.

This year there was no sustained spring surf run at Montauk. That was the first year in a long time that happened. That makes me very concerned for the future of striped bass. I know the young folks won't understand it, many of them are calling this year epic. I was there on Sunday and got one short bass at 5am, fished till the afternoon, and left. I heard it got better on Monday, but as far as epic I would call that an extreme exaggeration, unless you just started fishing. Ask Vito Orlando if it's epic fishing for this fall, and see what he tells you.

[williehookem]

Another lame spring in Montauk?
The first week of June is when I usually start going up to test the waters.
Some guy posted this report...the waters don't look too full of bass yet. Last year was the same it seemed like the June surf bite never really got started except for the few bigger fish that were caught on eels at night. Hard to figure out why. The report -


I fished the North side and South side this past week with limited results. 1 fish released at 30 lbs. Had a few rats too.

[finchaser]

on the verge of being wiped out again each year they get smaller and smaller as year classes are decimated just like last time

[BassBuddah]

on the verge of being wiped out again each year they get smaller and smaller as year classes are decimated just like last time

I completely agree with this statement.
Went to Montauk last week and fishing was poor. Managed a few small bass and one 10#. I have been making this trip the same time every year for 20 years and never fail to catch bass in the 20# class from the surf. This is the first year I did not achieve that. There was a distinct lack of whitebait.

[strikezone31]

I hope I am not stepping on any toes here. We did catch some bass in montauk this weekend. It was mostly centered around the 5-7 and 7-9pm times. The rest of the time we went fluking. All boat fish to 23lbs on diamond jigs. From what the capts at the dock were saying it has just heated up.
I would agree that there are not a lot of bass to be caught in the daytime. Thats why we fished for fluke during sunlight. It was also very crowded. Would probably not make that trip during a holiday weekend again.

[jigfreak]

As far as mecca is concerned fishing su*ks there right now from the surf. Anyone who says any different is lying throuh their teeth or hard up to pay the monthly nut on their charter boat. Honesty is the best policy Capts we know you need to pay your bills but when guys are making the trip all the way up there and catching small blues and dink bass on the night tides it is not a good bite.

[plugginpete]

Right on jigfreak. took the ride yesterday. Set up W of the Point for the incoming, Was perfect conditions with some bait showing small white bait. Fished from 4-9 and it was terrible just a few cocktail blues. Didn't see anyone else do much beyond that. Talked to 10 guys on the way out with the same results.

[plugginpete]

Here is a report I found on the net. This is the same as my results there this year. At Paulies they talked about some fish to 40# but the real deal is most of them are coming from the charters.

"Fished the beach around the Mtk lighthouse with plugs and bucktails Thursday morning from first light till 4:00pm with only a one hour break for breakfast. Nada. Not one fish, but My friend Lee caught a schoolie on a bucktail. Anyway, Not a very good bite on the beach out in Mtk right now, but we'll see what happens after this front that just came thorugh last night."

[plugginpete]

Most recent montauk report from another guy who went-
went out for weekend all excited only to return home empty No fish have moved in close to shore

[BassBuddah]

I haven't posted montauk reports but have been there 3 times since sept 1 and had similar results. My biggest bass was 30". The night I got that it was the only fish I caught. On a beachmaster. Otherwise it's not real great just ask Bill Wetzel.

[surfstix1963]

Boat/Rips/Bass right now, surf fishing is slowwwww in Montauk.I think Paulies tournament is this weekend so it will be a mad house out there

[finchaser]

Friends just came back from the mecca and surf fishing Succccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccked except for a few small fish.

My other gang of friends are at block island and have 10 fish over 30# since Sunday all beach plugged fish

[finchaser]

Friends just came back from the mecca and surf fishing Succccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccked except for a few small fish.

My other 3 friends are at block island and have had 10 fish over 30# and 5 over 40# all released since Sunday all beach plugged fish

[surfstix1963]

At last someone has had some decent fish.

[nitestrikes]

Montauk has been a bust so far a real dud for the surf action. Got a few last night but nothing spectacular.

[nitestrikes]

Montauk bite has been very poor this fall
Report from another website for yesterday:

"nice day lousy fishing

Weather-wise it was the day we have been waiting for. Trolled chutes and diamond jigged all day and only 3 bluefish to show for it.Wow this is about as bad as I have seen Montauk at this time of the year. I guess they are all at Captree, and they are killing a mess of them!"

[DarkSkies]

Thought I would bring this thread to the top and add to it when I get a chance.

I'll have to check my logs...but the shift in the action and contraction of the seasons at Montauk, has been significant.

Let's wind the clock back for a few years, 10-15.
Back then, I remember the following pattern......(generally speaking)

Montauk/LI Sound
I. Spring Run....
1. By the middle of May, the spawners from Chesapeake and Delaware (usually) were done, and moving northward.
After a brief stint along NNJ beaches, there was usually some action along the SS of LI...in addition to the mouth of the Hudson and NY Bight area (Hudson Fish)....before the Chesapeake and Delaware fish stopped off at Montauk for a month or two....
Sometimes it seemed longer because of the sheer volume of the total biomass....

2. The Hudson fish eventually moved up the E River and would make stops n the LI sound, along the way to Massachusetts, depending on bait availibility.
The chief complaint by many was that the LI Sound Spring fish would move quickly as there were not enough bunker to hold them.





Recent Changes-
3. Bunker availibility - As mentioned, in previous years the lack of bunker was often blamed for a poor Western Sound Spring run....In the past few years, bunker have been "saved" and seem to be everywhere.....
The chief lament by many anglers now..... is "bunker everywhere but no fish on em".

4. In the past 2 years, the presence of bunker has exploded exponentially. It is hard to go out at night and not run into bunker somewhere.....the big blues can often be found in the highest concentrations of bunker....yet bass are strangely absent, or availible in one out of every 100 bunker pods....
A reasonable thinking angler, who fishes a lot, would surely have to notice the disparity here....plenty of food, and still the bass have not been found in numbers in (some of) their usual secondary historic migrational hangouts?
Yet...there are plenty of bluefish and other predators (sharks, rays, etc).

5. For Montauk...the Spring run has never been about bunker....it was a stop on the migrational highway because of its strategic location...and other forage....whitebait...spearing, rainfish....sandeels, squid, porgies, baby fluke, etc. were usually the draws that would hold the Spring bass there for awhile.......

6. Shrinking Seasons -
Last year, 2014, if I am recalling correctly......
The Montauk 2014 Spring run was relatively short...about 6 weeks....

The 2014 Montauk Fall run didn't get into gear until the 3rd week of Oct 2014....a few friends religiously going there started reporting greater catches of bass from the surf then...as did Bill Wetzel and Zeno, I believe....

That run was short-lived, as many of those fish moved S to the Moriches area....and held there for a few weeks.....

7. 2015 Montauk Spring Run-
Many of the old timers will tell you the first great action of larger fish would traditionally start to show up in Montauk by the 3rd week of May...this year we blamed the cold Winter for the delays in fish showing up in several areas Coastwide.
According to my notes....the main body of larger fish didn't show up at Montauk until the week of July 1st...

As I type these words...the main body has left already.....The night boats are now shifting to Block Island to sustain the action....and in many cases are admitting it has slowed down
So..in essence...the bulk of the 2015 Spring run at Montauk lasted a little less than 4 weeks in total...

Less than 4 weeks...compared to the robustness 10-15 years ago of a bite that would begin in May...and last until at least July...
I hope folks reading this can see for themselves the contraction of the Season there.....

This is also confirmed by many Capts and seasoned anglers.....
and is cause for concern......











Just to be clear, there are still big fish available at Montauk, for those who understand tides, and willing to put their time in at low light periods...
but in the past week the numbers dwindled significantly.....

Boaters fishing the right tides in low light can troll some decent bass in the Rips.
There are still big bass being caught in the Block Island area....
Surfcasters still catch fish to 40# during the Summer..
The same for kayakers who are able to get out and fish the Rips.....

** What I'm referring to here, are the majority of bass, during the migrations, and why the period they are at Montauk, is now so contracted, compared to the past......

Just ask the Capts fishing out of nearby Orient Point how they have done this Spring...and in many cases you will see there were less folks fishing out of Orient at night...because the fish just weren't there in usual numbers....despite a great variety of forage available..

Eventually, at the end of the season, I'll add some of these notes to the
StripersAndAnglers yearly coastwide fish stock asssessment shown here:

http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?7784-StripersandAnglers-yearly-coastwide-fish-stock-assessment-state-of-the-fishery



**(Again, this is what I remember.....if anyone else has anything else or different that they can add...please feel free...) thanks for reading......:HappyWave: (http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?7784-StripersandAnglers-yearly-coastwide-fish-stock-assessment-state-of-the-fishery)

[DarkSkies]

Orient Point - The significance of Orient Point as the North Fork of LI, and a strategic stop in the LI Sound for migrational bass, cannot be understated.

The rips and rock piles in that area offer tremendous feeding opportunities for bigger bass....
There are times during late Sping and Summer periods that bass can be found there for months at a time....

This year, for some reason thus far....the bass could not be found at Orient in any great numbers...

**Let me qualify that....
There are still a few boats that have been targeting them. and doing OK.....

But the majority of boats that target bass at night, have been targeting fluke and scup this year....and sea bass when the season is open.....

To see for yourselves.......Ask any Capt who has consistently fished for large bass there at night..in the past...and why he is not fishing for bass now at night..for an honest assessment....if you want further clarification......:learn:







To me, this is great cause for concern........
I have fished and explored the areas along that part of the North shore.....it really is a fantastic gathering place for all kinds of forage.........
As far back as I can remember, it has always been an oasis in the desert, to find striped bass.....
This year, 2015, that has not consistently been the case, so far....and it troubles me.......

If anyone else has further thoughts, feel free to add to this, thanks....

[williehookem]

Heard they are still catching bass at the porgy hump. does anyone know where that is? Close to the Point or somewhere else?

[nitestrikes]

The porgy hump is about 2-3 miles to the east. A football sized piece of structure where small fish hold and so do the bass. Hope that helps.
Came across this an honest montauk fishing report. from the viking fleet:

Night Striped Bass
Capt Carl reports a very slow night on the Viking Star. We had some weak tides and slow drifts, making fishing tough. We only ended up with 1 bass and a few blues for the night.

[DarkSkies]

Orient Point - The significance of Orient Point as the North Fork of LI, and a strategic stop in the LI Sound for migrational bass, cannot be understated.

The rips and rock piles in that area offer tremendous feeding opportunities for bigger bass....
There are times during late Sping and Summer periods that bass can be found there for months at a time....

This year, for some reason thus far....the bass could not be found at Orient in any great numbers...

**Let me qualify that....
There are still a few boats that have been targeting them. and doing OK......

The majority of boats that target bass at night, have been targeting fluke and scup this year....and sea bass when the season is open.....


Time for an Orient Point update here...
Since I posted the above, there has been an increase in the action...
The first week of August....some of the boats started catching bass at Orient...are now targeting them and doing well.

The significance of Orient Point, and my earlier concern, still stands.
This is not a secondary area. It's a strategic stop on the striped bass migrational highway every year.

Usually, bass start showing up in numbers and sizes in May and June.
You could certainly make the argument that because of the cold winter, things have been "later" this year.
I buy into that, to an extent.

Here we have the months of June and July, with no (significant) showings of bass at Orient...until the first week of August....
If you know and understand that area, you would remember the outstanding catches they usually get during the June and July months....

This year, for the most part, there were not enough numbers of bass for the party and charter boats to go out there and justify looking for them during those months...













Folks who read this, need to remember striped bass and the M&M theory discussed elsewhere in these forums.
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?7784-StripersandAnglers-yearly-coastwide-fish-stock-assessment-state-of-the-fishery

If they were not stacked up at Orient Point, a place as strategically important as Montauk.....
Think of the possible explanations......
For the most part, it logically points to a reduced biomass.....

Don't take my word for it....
Ask the Capts out there who make a good living from targeting bass, when they are there.....and ask them why they didn't show up until the first week of August this year......when they were moving through the Sound on the Eastward migration in June...and had already reached the Canal and other points on the NS of MA during June/July........





Quick update on the Montauk Bite....
More bass have been caught as I'm posting this.......You have to realize a large % of those catches come from Block Island and other areas that are in relatively deeper water....
There's nothing wrong with that....
And truthfully speaking, even the boats who are steaming to Block every night....are having inconsistent results....

However in recent days the amount of bunker and other forage fish..... loading up in the shallower areas around Montauk has been noted...
If the bass numbers were truly as strong as some claim....there would be many more fish inshore feeding on these forage fish.....instead of just being found on the lumps and deeper rockpiles.....Food for thought....


Thanks for reading....
And for your comments as well.....:fishing: :HappyWave:

[nitestrikes]

Late Summer Recap
September is usually a great month for fishing, as local waters cool down and back bay areas get filled up with bait.

Some observations.....
1. The highly touted Montauk summer bite of larger fish has started up again, but mostly in the RIPS and Elbow........
People who claim how healthy the fishery is would be well-advised to turn the pages back 15 years and compare the catches then, to now....
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?8039-Why-are-there-no-fish-in-Montauk-right-now
(http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?8039-Why-are-there-no-fish-in-Montauk-right-now)


Spot on I agree this is a magic hours report the viking posted this afternoon. Considering we are coming off the full moon the fishing should be much better. Oh how it sucks sometimes to be older and remember the good old days.
"Captain Carl reports a tough sunset trip. We only had a couple of bass for the night. The pool winner was William Gati from Queens, NY with a 27lb striped bass."

[williehookem]

A bud of mine was out there over the holiday weekend. They caught some nice stripers. Then it got slow. Yesterday he drove there again and got stripers to 15lbs. He said not real blitszing but good fishing in the morning. So it seems thats the way it is now. 2 days good, 3 days not so good, lather, rinse, repeat.

[nitestrikes]

So it seems thats the way it is now. 2 days good, 3 days not so good, lather, rinse, repeat.

Wecome to reality 2015. About 10 years ago the first week of Sept was time to go. You could set your watch by it. I actually think the spotty fishing is better for some of us because it keeps a lot of guys home.

[williehookem]

Report from the foxsealady.
Bass N Still slow. But signs are improving. Bait, Birds plentiful . Some better marks. Hopefully as they migrate through they will stop and chow down for a while at the point.

[7deadlyplugs]

Thought this was interesting similar comments from the boat and surf guys this morning in a discussion

boat-
montauk Bass- Yes for the past 3 years Bass fishing in October from a boat has been very poor.The only fish being caught now maybe at the SW ledge on a troll?..There have been bunker schools whales and bass out of fire island inlet to the east of the lighthouse?.Sharpies a catching from the beach and boat?..The body of fish skipped 2 inlets and ended up there ?.crazy stuff but this has been the pattern for the past 3 years..


surf-
All over this afternoon. Napeague, Hither Hills, the point and back again.
Didn't see a fish anywhere.

[finchaser]

They are almost wiped out again

[Monty]

Bill Wetzel talks Montauk October 21,2015


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3IVCydFhJ8&feature=youtube_gdata

[seamonkey]

Thanks for posting that. Heard he is like a expert. Anyone know how much he charges for a guided trip up there? thanks

[surfstix1963]

Gill nettters in Montauk banged most of the fish.No bass around.blues have become small compared to last week jigging.The fish that are in the surf you are going to work your *** off for it's just not what it used to be they are wiped out...History has repeated itself.

[finchaser]

Bill promoting his services rumor has it he has stated to his close friends for all intensive purposes its over fish are gone from there

[7deadlyplugs]

Sat Oct 24
Night Striped Bass
Captain Carl reports another dismal night of striped bass fishing. We had no bites and no fish brought onboard.

^^^ Wow just wow for the longest time I thought fishing montauk for night striped bass was a lock. Guess not. That really sucks.

[nitestrikes]

2015 has to go down as one of the worst years ever for fishing Montauk. I'm happy to hear Bill is finding bass. I have found some but it is an insane amount of work. Definitely not a normal fall. I have been fishing further west. Much more consistent.

[strikezone31]

I never thought I would see this. viking is done with stripers for the season.
"Night striped bass Full Moon Special

Captain Carl reports a very slow night of striped bass. We had no bites which meant no bass. Unfortunately we are done striped bass fishing for the season. Keep an eye on our website for added trips for the end of the year."

[surfstix1963]

It was over before it started, the blues didn't even make a great showing this year out on the boats jigging anyways. I didn't bother with the surf this year at all and probably will not any longer since I'm leaving for NC in December for good after my wifes surgery. Finchaser and others have been saying history will repeat itself for anyone who missed the 80's. Welcome back we have achieved wiping the fish out again.
If will we be able to save them again my guess is no - with the poor fisheries management and attitudes from fishermen that the bass are fine. Most of the boats are now banging the bottom fish already and the surf reports are very grim from my sources. So life goes on. I'll be switching gears putting the surf gear into retirement and moving on to whatever I may find in NC.

[cowherder]

Whoa it hurts to read that. I haven't been fishing as long as most of you guys but will take your word for it. Big time suck-a-roo. It's a shame that people really don't want to wake up and smell the coffee until it's too late. Thanks for sharing.

[williehookem]

Quick update on the Montauk Bite....
More bass have been caught as I'm posting this.......You have to realize a large % of those catches come from Block Island and other areas that are in relatively deeper water....
There's nothing wrong with that....

And truthfully speaking, even the boats who are steaming to Block every night....are having inconsistent results....
Thanks for reading....
And for your comments as well.....:fishing: :HappyWave:

Dark the block island fishing wasn't that great this year either. Here is a report from someone who lives there

"30 & years living on BI and it just seems to get worse every year. My personal worst ever, fish about 4 days a week mornings and evening tides. Had a few good trips this summer with some very respectable fish in the mid 40's. A few small fish but not like past years. Not much to do but drink out there, unless fishing is good. Now the seals have arrived, I wonder what they taste like? Great squid fishing at least."

[nitestrikes]

Lazybones recent trip, c&p from the net. No bass in montauk.

Beautiful day for a drive east. Capt Mike took a light crowd to the point in search of bass and blues.It took a while but the blues finally hit.

[nitestrikes]

Every year it takes longer and longer before we see massive amounts of fish in the Fall Run. The latest report from Viking last night-
Viking-Night Striped BassFishing
Night Striped Bass
"Capt Steven Jr reports another very slow night bass fishing. With the fishing being so slow locally we ventured over to the Block Island grounds. We moved around to a couple of different areas and never found anything to work on. Hopefully fishing will improve as we get closer to the next full moon!"

[finchaser]

there wiping them out again

[SharkHart]

took this roughly 6 seasons ago, i stood on the shore and got some video too, why? because there was so many blitzes, and opportunity, if this happened again id run like Hell

20520

[cowherder]

Wow- sounds pretty inconsistent in Montauk as well. I thought it was supposed to be the big mecca for stripers?

[fishinmission78]

don't have a lot of experience there. Strategically that should be where many striped bass would gather up before they make the run.
just doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

[fishinmission78]

there wiping them out again
Could be coming true, deja vu.

[fishgutz]

Every year another charter drops out of the biz at 'tauk.

[williehookem]

Finally some stripers showed up. Mostly blue fish, but got a few stripers this weekend out East.

[williehookem]

fished it the latest this weekend. Nothing but rats left

[williehookem]

Looks like will be a late run this year. Guy i know posted this about montauk-
"I just got back from my annual vacation to Montauk. I have never spent so many consecutive days in Montauk with such quiet weather. Day after day with no wind or even clouds. A few fish under the light before sunrise but nothing almost anywhere else. I did manage a few school stripers at Shagwong after dark. Bait was everywhere. I am going to keep my poles ready in case things bust open. Even though it is a six hour drive for me the potential is there."