how come with all the bait in the surf there is not more fish activity?

[baitstealer]

I was standing in the surf at LBI last week. There was a lot of bait coming by, and it didn't seem there was a lot of fish chopping through it. I did catch some kingfish on bloodworms. But I was wondering with all the baitfish around, why are there not more stripers and bluefish trying to eat them?

[surfstix1963]

Sometimes your the dog and sometimes your the hydrant all the bait schools aren't going to get hammered there may be another one somewhere else they are feeding on.Could be anything wrong part of the tide,wrong wind no cuts in the bar for the fish to enter no fish in the area this is when your eyes should scan whats happening to your left and right the fish may be ahead of the school may be just catching up with it.I have this crazy little saying when I'm thinking to myself "Look for the crazy water" thats anything I see that differs from the rest of the beach points drains cuts little eddys in the trough between 2 points you will see the water doing different things than the rest when it renters the ocean it will generally take you to structure you may be overlooking no matter how small it may hold a fish.I mainly fish the beaches I'm tuned into whats going on if I get stumped swirls,tail slaps, how is the bait swimming nervous or just casually swimming along when I am not casting I am constantly looking for that crazy water.As Monty and Surfwalker say walking,casting and scanning where you want your next cast to be will yield you more fish I do not stay in one spot for more then 10 min. work the white water if their is any think straight right left cast then the same for the inner trough fan casting you can cover alot more ground from one spot.As you walk constantly watch the water I don't like to seem snobby but when I fish I don't stop to BS with anyone a casual Hi is what you usually will get I have a specific plan and time frame and I don't want interuptions this is why I plug bait does work but I just don't have the patience to bait and wait the fish I'm looking for may be 150 yds. from the bait sitting on the bottom.Just my .02 cents everyone has their own thing it just makes more sense to cover as much ground as possible.

[ledhead36]

I think it is not always about the bait. If the fish are not there they are not there. For example we have been fishing the back for 2 weeks now, not much to show for it. Last night we finally got some bigger bluefish on bunker. A lot of the small bait has cleared out, most of the mullet and small peanut bunker have left. And why did the blues come into the back? I am not sure, but would guess they are eating shrimp, crabs, and small minnows in the mud and bridge locations. Less bait and the fish are here. More bait in the ocean and less fish. Crazy.

[finchaser]

because mother nature can't reproduce as fast as we kill

[clamchucker]

^ Spoken like a true veteran of the fishing wars. The absolute truth. A lot of young folks today have no realization of the way things used to be. We had small groups of friends who fished here and there. And many fished because they were in clubs and that was the way it was. Even if you compare the club membership from 50 years ago to today the numbers have increased dramatically. You also have more folks buying boats with sophisticated electronics. More folks out on the beach not just on the weekends but on the weekdays. And more folks reading the internet reports or online magazines and rushing down to catch fish whenever there is a favorible report. Add it all up and you probably have an increase in the number of fishermen over 80% greater than what it used to be.

We also have more tournaments, catch and kill. We should focus on catch and release. Some folks cannot see the glory or usefulness in that, so they don't. But they should, or as finchaser said they are just not reproducing as quickly as we are killing them.

[Monty]

We should focus on catch and release. Some folks cannot see the glory or usefulness in that, so they don't. But they should.

Yes, they should.:thumbsup:

[Doublerunner]

All good points. Could also be that the water temps are too warm to bring them in shore right now

[DarkSkies]

Good point, John. :HappyWave: That's one of the key differences this year, from the past. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon3.png How ya been, been fishin lately?




because mother nature can't reproduce as fast as we kill

Also another very valid point. Lately a lot of press has been given to the bunker hearings. A lot of NJ fishermen were up in arms when the bunker boats were here, killing "all" the bunker, thinking it was ruining the bite.....not considering that as we kill more bass, there are less swimming around overall......

In NJ, we have had bunker boats all summer, and fall, like clockwork netting our bunker for points North.
Does this affect striped bass?
The other day I was scouting, found a school of bunker outside an inlet a mile long and about 1/2 mile wide....dark stain and movement was huge in the relatively calm water, there was no mistaking it. There are bass in NJ right now, bass to 35# have been caught on bunker heads at night...yet under this huge massive school of fat juicy bunker, (there were probably some bass) but there was not one bass that would hit a livelined bunker. I watched 2 charter boats, and one private boat drift those schools for an hour livelining bunker, and not one of them hooked up...despite it being toward the end of the day, the prime time for the bass/bunker dinner bell......


So of all the answers so far, although you're all putting thought into your responses, it seems Finchaser's is the simplest and most reasonable explanation for what we are seeing here now, in NJ.

I'll try to tie this in to a thread I started called "Why are there no fish in Montauk right now",
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?8039-Why-are-there-no-fish-in-Montauk-right-now

but I haven't yet had time to get back and explain what I meant. I'm glad some of ya's are looking at this. I guarantee it will get worse before it gets better.....

[VSdreams]

Plenty of bunker around, as you said, there aren't that many bass to eat them though. We should focus on the bass and not the bunker. My .02. Here is a report I found from this morning, bunker were all over IBSP with no fish under them in the near surf zone.


"acres of Bunker just out of reach with no fish to feed on any of it this morning."

[finchaser]

What he^^^^^ said. Same in Mantalokin and Point. If it weren't for snag and drop there would be plenty of breeders and people wouldn't have to ask these questions screw the bunker they are all over the place. IMO not really in trouble. The only people who want to save them are the people who can't catch a bass with out them. Why haven't the bait guys stopped using them if they are so concerned.

[finchaser]

Today bunker schools streched for miles with boats snagging away and not a fish in them.
People still blame the lack of fish which they have slaughtered for no reason on a lack of bunker:kooky:

[Monty]

Today bunker schools streched for miles with boats snagging away and not a fish in them.
People still blame the lack of fish which they have slaughtered for no reason on a lack of bunker:kooky:

All this negativity. Why not look at the bright side.
With the irresponsible slaughter of the striped bass by recreational anglers maybe there will be none left for the illegal netting that we heard about earlier this year. I found that disturbing at that time.

Its absurd that the regulations have not been changed, that limits have not been reduced, that the bonus tag has not been obliterated.
Regulations must me changed to protect the anglers from themselves.

Maybe a Saltwater fishing license that requires a test. A test to determine that to fish you need to have a conscience.

[captnemo]

All this negativity. Why not look at the bright side.
Regulations must me changed to protect the anglers from themselves.

Maybe a Saltwater fishing license that requires a test. A test to determine that to fish you need to have a conscience.

I think that if that were the requirement Monty, not many could pass it. Or, people would lie. How would you determine who is telling the truth or not. It seems like an impossible requirement, like expecting all folks to honestly report what they are catching.

Here are some of the latest reports, bait all over and nothing on them>

"Fishing reports today were such that the best I can write about involved the abundance of adult bunkers off Bay Head. When I got there at mid-morning with Bob Correll of Bay Head on his Boston Whaler 23 there were several boats drifting around them -- but not catching anything. Bob put out a live bunker, and we jigged a couple of spike weakfish, but the bunkers were undisturbed."

Another one>
"The concentration of bait in our area now is so thick you could walk on it. Bunker, peanut bunker, mullet, sandeels, anchovies, hickory shad, herring, and spike weakfish to boot. The problem is that the weather is almost too nice and there is too much bait for the amount of fish we have right now. From what I hear, the big push is not far off. "



There are no fish because the weather is too nice, and the bait is too much?
He is a blooming genius.

[JustEd]

You may be seeing the product of steps taken to protect the Menhaden in New Jersey waters. In States where this has not happened we do not see the schools you have witnessed. There is no where near the amount of Bunker we once had, and should have here in Rhode Island. 88% of the bunker bio-mass has disappeared over the last 20 years or so, due to process ships and Omega Protein. The Bass are in trouble and I will not dispute that, but, in my opinion the fall run has yet to start as the water temps that spur the migration are only just now approaching that level. We still have Albies near shore here...............

[VSdreams]

Good thread fellas. I was walking along a bay area this morning and saw a lot of rainfish near the shoreline. The winds seemed to be blowing in such a way that they were tight to the beach. To me they looked like a moving smorgasbord or buffet table. Lots of threads talk about how it is the fall run and fish are on the move. Was just thinking why there were not fish blowing up on these tasty little morsels or were they too small and they only want bunker? thanks

[surfstix1963]

They may be feeding on a different and or larger bait. The bass are feeding on the large sand eels we have in NY right now. Smaller bass and blues that are cruising the bays are probably feeding on the smaller stuff the bigger fish are all on sand eels at least 1 mile off the beach.Some are in the surf the majority are not.

[jjohns12]

Everybody keeps a good log book around here correct? Take a look back 5 years or so and each year you will see decrease in the amount of the smaller bass in the surf.
My logs show a steady decrease of these schoolies. We can argue all we want but its a fact loads of larger bass being pick up every place fish are being caught. Ya some smaller class fish but nowhere it should be. As it goes where are the fish with all this bait around? We should be asking where are the schoolies I love to see those footballs ripping up the surf again! Blitz On!

[Monty]

Everybody keeps a good log book around here correct? Take a look back 5 years or so and each year you will see decrease in the amount of the smaller bass in the surf.
My logs show a steady decrease of these schoolies. We can argue all we want but its a fact loads of larger bass being pick up every place fish are being caught. Ya some smaller class fish but nowhere it should be. As it goes where are the fish with all this bait around? We should be asking where are the schoolies I love to see those footballs ripping up the surf again! Blitz On!

This past spring I noticed a big drop off of schoolies where I fished from the previous years.

[surfstix1963]

no schoolies around here not many fish at all off the beach.

[J Barbosa]

Agreed John.

I also want to see those bluefish invade the surf again. I think there is less bluefish around therefore we're seeing lower numbers in the surf zone.

[finchaser]

they're passing offshore the head boats were 5 to 7 miles off yesterday and it will only get worse with the beach replenishment as the last of the remaining structure is buried. Politicians and the Army Corp of Morons SU_K when will they learn you can't hold back the sea, mother nature has taken and replaced the sand for years

[surferman]

when will they learn you can't hold back the sea, mother nature has taken and replaced the sand for years


There is a saying those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it. Maybe no one ever told that to the army corps of engineers.

[cowherder]

they're passing offshore the head boats were 5 to 7 miles off yesterday and it will only get worse with the beach replenishment as the last of the remaining structure is buried. Politicians and the Army Corp of Morons SU_K when will they learn you can't hold back the sea, mother nature has taken and replaced the sand for years


Another thread I came across while searching threads for information on false albacore. I hope this year is not a repeat of 2013 like you mentioned where a lot of the fish pass offshore.