Hudson river reprise

[RJC]

Reprise – a return to an original theme. (Amer. Heritage Dic.)

I’ve fished and hunted the Hudson River for more than 60 years. 2011 is the first year I’ve missed fishing for striped bass on this great gift of a river since I returned from overseas in the 60’s. I decided to treat myself to a year of fishing where I enjoyed life the most. I was in my 30’s and 40’s. I located an efficiency room in a boarding house in Atlantic Highlands, NJ. You can come home sometimes.

I like it so much here that I passed on my annual trek to Florida and plan on fishing the fall migration into January. Then huddle up here “Down the Shore” and tie some flies and buck tails and begin to write the Great American Novel on Dating Redheaded Women over 50. Then see if I can duplicate this fine year in 2012. Sunrise on the east coast of America is wicked Awesome!

A friend asked me to check on how the fishing was on the Hudson River this year and share it with you. So I did some research, reached out to some contacts in the Hudson RiverValley and smoozed the folks at the Hudson River Fisheries Unit (HRFU) for the latest developments.

The long, cold winter and never ending wet spring charged the Hudson River with more high water than it has seen since January, 1996. This river has a 25,000 square mile watershed and drains the slopes of the Adirondack, Green, Catskill and BerkshireMountains and half a dozen major hill regions. The river was flooded from late March thru early May. It was lumpy with debris and dirty with silt and mud for months.

The cold water held up the spawning run for the upper freshwater tidal reach from Bethlehem/Schodack to the Federal Dam at Troy. It delayed it for the Ravena to Catskill section and slowed it down by two weeks in the Malden to Kingston stretch.

The conditions were rough, but the anglers were tougher. They caught fish in murky water, lost rigs to trash tumbling south pushed by runoff from high places. The upper sections didn’t see a spawn or many fish over 40 inches. Ravena, Coxsackie, 4 Mile Point and Athens produced well and Catskill to Newburgh even better than that. More 40-inch plus fish were reported that any time in the past 24 years. The NY State Inland striped bass record still stands a 49.75-inches and 55-pounds, 6-ounces.

A 49.25-inch and 51.6-pound striped bass was caught on a flat south of Kingston, NY by Tom Borchret in May. On June 1st, Bill Walsh of Rock Tavern, NY, caught a 48.25-inch, spawned out female that weighed 40.7-pounds.That fish was caught in the same general area as Borchert’s. A majority of the over 40 crowd were caught on herring chunks.

The Hudson River is blessed with a strong and stable mature female spawning population of fish that are 8 or more years old. It has a problem with American Shad population numbers and is currently documenting the number of River Herring (Alewife and Blueback Herring) to meet the ASMFC coast wide minimum for a Sustainable Fishing Plan (SFP) for New York River Herring Stocks. The Hudson River Fisheries Unit has been collecting data since 2010. It has submitted it findings to the Shad and River Herring Technical committee and the Management Board will be ruling on the adjustments NY will have to make to be able to have a Sustainable Fishing Plan for Herring. American Shad will remain closed to fishing in 2012. There are Herring moratorium proposals for herring streams that empty into the East River and Long Island Sound from Southern Westchester County. Areas of the Delaware River north of Port Jervis may be included in this moratorium. You can down load a copy of the plan by Googling NY River Herring Sustainable Fishing Plan.

NY has been conducting annual young of the year (YOY) net hauls for striped bass, shad and herring since 1979 and spawning stock age net hauls for Age 8+ mature female striped bass since 1985. The YOY information is used to determine the strength of the spawn and to classify that year as average, poor or strong. If you hear folks talking about strong class years, these net counts are where those numbers originate. The worst year for striped bass was 1985 with a mere 2.0 average. 1986 was 3.0, 1987 was 15.0 and 1988 hit an amazing 34.0. The average for 32 years is 14.0.

1985 was the lowest ebb in the Age 8+ female striped bass count. It came in at 26%. The highest was 93% in 1993. The average over the 22 years remains a strong 71%.
2010 was 86 % and the estimated 2011 number should come in around 81%. So the Hudson Striper Stock remains healthy.

Hudson River Estuary Public Fishing and Boating Access Maps


These maps provide information about 91 public boat launch and shore fishing locations on the Hudson River between Troy and Yonkers. Driving directions, hours of operation, available facilities including access for persons with disabilities and contact numbers are available for each location. This document also includes a wealth of relevant information about river ecology and responsible fishing and boating to make any trip to the river safe and enjoyable while protecting the river's treasured resources.
You can use the links below to download a pdf version of the document. To receive a CD version please contact the Hudson River Estuary Program.
Hudson River Estuary Public Fishing and Boating Access Maps (PDF) (http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/remediation_hudson_pdf/hrefba.pdf)

I did the field recon and GPS locations for these access sites in 2002 as the Hudson River Estuary Management Advisory Committee – Access Committee Chairman. These spots will put you next to fish. Enjoy the Fall Fishing – Next year will even be better.

[williehookem]

Great read, thanks!

[DarkSkies]

Thanks for the perspective, RJ, I know ya put a lot of time into that. :clapping:

The only thing I would add, with all due respect, is that there a lot of guys who fish the lower Hudson from the banks and piers.

This is different than the area you are referring to, but as it is near the mouth.
I think their catches, or lack of catches, should have some weight.


Some of them would dispute the healthiness of this stock as their catches are way down. 4-5 years ago, I witnessed fish in the 25-40lb class caught on a regular basis by these pier fishermen, Spring and Fall. These fishermen, to their credit, are out there for up to 12 hours at a time to get one of these trophy fish. :fishing:

I visit those piers periodically to get a sense of how the guys are doing. For the last 3 years they have been grumbling, and I have seen a general decline in their catches, both in quantity and size.

Without getting into too many location details, if the guys at the mouth of the Hudson are only coming up with 25-50% of the numbers they used to catch for a season, and are fishing the same amount of hours for these fish, that tells me something is amiss.

These guys are at the forefront of the Hudson Bass Highway. They fish the bottlenecks, where the fish must pass through.

To a large extent, these are not guys who will go on the internet or answer a telephone survey from NOAA to accurately report this decline.

And, I realize the area you are referrring to is way above this, in the center of the spawning grounds, or at the very least, away from the location where these guys are fishing.










So while there is no scientific proof in these anecdotes I offer....
I have seen it with my own eyes, and get to hear the stories of the guys when they tell me how fishing now su*ks for them......


Somewhere in all of this, I think the catches/non-catches of these fishermen should be taken into account when calculating the actual biomass, and the standard deviation. (admittedly it's kind of difficult as these are not guys who would be interested in reporting... but these are legitimate reports, as reported to me and confirmed by local tackle shops in that area)

As always, I thank you for your input, RJ, You know more about the Hudson than I ever will, and I'm grateful to have you weigh in on this important issue. :HappyWave:

[storminsteve]

Holy crap you guys write a lot! I can see you are both obsessive about fishing, and detailed paragraphs. Dark it's possible you may have met your match in post length.;)
Good job guys.

[nitestrikes]

Dark it's possible you may have met your match in post length.;)
Good job guys.

:laugh: X2. I read the post and will check out the links tomorrow.I think the recs got the shaft when it comes to shutting down herring fishing in the Hudson. jmo

[RJC]

Rich,

My commentary focused on the major striped bass angling effort connected with the annual Spring spawning run of Striped bass, American Shad, Alewife and Blueback River Herring. The perception of other seasonal anglers (late spring, summer and fall) is a completely different kind of striped bass fishing.

The mouth of the Hudson River is far from a bottleneck. Shore anglers can only reach out so far from either bank between Jersey City and Manhatten. The area of your concern is south of the GW Bridge. The east shore is Manhatten and the west shore begins in NJ at Ft. Lee andmoves south to Jersey City. It includes Newark Bay and the peirs of Bayonne and Port Jersey, NJ. It picks up again on the western side with Staten Island and the eastern edge of Brooklyn and the East River.

We all are now in the NY or NJ free Registry. Ergo, the Federal Registry, administered by the States, just like CDL drivers licences. If you are not, signed up the inital fine could cost you $300 bucks. Now this is the first step to develop the true size of the recreational fishing community. We all have been counted. Or will be in a year or two.

If the fishing at the end of the piers or rock piles the lower Hudson anglers frequent is percieved to have fallen off, it is time to move, to another spot. Currets change, food abundances rise and fall, many different things affect fishing from a favorite spot. Do some these aglers crab as well as fish? Have they noticed the overabundance of blue claw crabs in the lower Hudson, in the past five years? Could the hordes of crabs be affecting their bottom of the food pryamid that could cause the worms and other less swift tidbts to disappear from some spots? No one will know unless the problem is researched from several angles.

I appreciate you asking the questions, but if they don't want to participate in studies, or contact the folks who could help them find answers to the basic "Where did the bass go?" They and their experience do not count for spit. Trends and problems must be addressed.

You said "I think their catches, or lack of catches, should have some weight." How do you weigh an unknown?. It's not a fact. It could be a feeling or a perception. It could even be classified as a consensus, you personally have come to by talking to them. But without fact gathering, comparing their observations with those who also fish in the Hudson below the GWB, none if it can be considered fact.

Rich your contacts are on the western side of the river. Perhaps the guys on the eastern side are seeing more fish or at least as many and before.

There is a hell of a lot more "subsistance fishing" going on now than 5 years ago. Eastern european and hispanic anglers who fish for their families and keep many more fish that the laws allow. The asian influx is more prominent than a decade ago. Could this expansion of harvest and harvesting younger below keepha size fish affect the fish in your local area?

We won't know, until a study is made of the causes and their effect on fishing in the small region you trying to cover with personal interaction.

"Somewhere in all of this, I think the catches/non-catches of these fishermen should be taken into account when calculating the actual biomass, and the standard deviation. (admittedly it's kind of difficult as these are not guys who would be interested in reporting... but these are legitimate reports, as reported to me and confirmed by local tackle shops in that area)"

They may be true as they are reported to you but they are not legitimate reports backed up by an organized method of reporting. You are not qualified or trained in stastical data collection or interpertation. You are not receiving daily reports from each participant. And you do not have statistacle archives dating back to 1985 that tracked the expansion of recreational fishings growth over the past 26 years. ASMFC has the data and the correlation of expanded participation on head boats, and thru the sales purchase increases in bait, tackle, including the fly fishing industry.


The commercial guys have to give NYS DEC Marine Fisheies. in New York a daily telephone report and are only allowed to catch a specific, predetermined quota of striped bass. They seasons are much shorter than yours. Your guys do not have to tag each fish caught with a serialized metal tag, as soon as they catch them. The commercial guys must do that our lose their license to fish and find a way to feed their families in another job market.


Tackle shops have not been wired to report fish that their customers bring in to be weighed and pictures snapped to hang on the shop wall. Only a few fish are brought in to be recorded in that fashion. It is a pittance compared to the actual harvest in their areas.


I ran into a guy on the Hook three weeks age, who told me he caught 78 false albacore last year. How many do you thing he actually caught?

"I visit those piers periodically to get a sense of how the guys are doing. For the last 3 years they have been grumbling, and I have seen a general decline in their catches, both in quantity and size."


"Without getting into too many location details, if the guys at the mouth of the Hudson are only coming up with 25-50% of the numbers they used to catch for a season, and are fishing the same amount of hours for these fish, that tells me something is amiss. These guys are at the forefront of the Hudson Bass Highway. They fish the bottlenecks, where the fish must pass through.

To a large extent, these are not guys who will go on the internet or answer a telephone survey from NOAA to accurately report this decline.

"So while there is no scientific proof in these anecdotes I offer...."

Rich with all respect.... Your last quote says it all. It may be, but there is no way it will ever be counted. There are too many vairables and not enough structure.

My answers may be blunt, but they are the truth as i know it. And some of my comment might cause more questions. I do my best to answer anything asked.

[RJC]

:laugh: X2. I read the post and will check out the links tomorrow.I think the recs got the shaft when it comes to shutting down herring fishing in the Hudson. jmo

X2 - it hasn't happened yet. The recs north of New Rochelle, all the way to Maine have had their herring runs shut down for 5 years. NY just approved transportation overland for herring caught in the Hudson. The HR Fishing Unit may recommend eleminating commercial netting of herring, but let individuals rec anglers use scap nets for personal use.

We will both know soon, and NY must holod public hearings before changing the regulations. Look for them in Dec. and Jan. The changes, if made will kick in in March, 2012.

Bottomline to me is if it will help renew the river herring fishery, so be it. ASMFC is also looking at Ocean herring harvest and intercepting river herring species by commercial boats that are targeting the deep ocean breeds. That has been under study for about 3 years and the Boston meeting might give us a good idea about how at sea harvest can be eleminated for the species our inshore striped bass feed upon.

[DarkSkies]

Rich with all respect.... Your last quote says it all. It may be, but there is no way it will ever be counted. There are too many vairables and not enough structure.

My answers may be blunt, but they are the truth as i know it. And some of my comment might cause more questions. I do my best to answer anything asked.


Yes, it is apparent you do answer anything asked, Bob.
I may not agree with everything you say, as you I.
I do appreciate the perspective, though.

[bababooey]

Was wondering how you would explain this official statement?


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE, MARCH 24, 2011
PRESS CONTACT, TINA BERGER, 703/842-0740

ASMFC Atlantic Striped Bass Board Initiates Addendum to Reduce Fishing Mortality


Alexandria, VA – The Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission’s Atlantic Striped Bass Management Board has initiated development of Draft Addendum III with the goals of reducing striped bass fishing mortality (F) up to 40% and further protecting spawning stock when it is concentrated and vulnerable. The addendum was initiated in order to allow managers to promptly respond to the results of the stock assessment update in the fall if necessary. Provisions of the addendum, if passed, could be implemented prior to the start of the 2012 fishing year.

The Board’s action responds to recent trends in the fishery and resource, including a 66% decline in estimated recreational catch from 2006 to 2009; a 25% decline in estimated striped bass abundance from 2004 to 2008; and lowered recruitment in recent years. Additionally, states in the northern extent of the fishery have expressed concern over decreased availability of striped bass as a result of the diminished water quality in the Chesapeake Bay during the summer months that may also contribute to increased prevalence of mycobacteriosis in striped bass.

Draft Addendum III will propose a range of fishing management measures including, but not limited to, adjustments to commercial and recreational minimum size (for jurisdictions outside Chesapeake Bay and Albemarle Sound/Roanoke River), reductions in annual coastal commercial allocation, reductions in recreational bag limits, revisions to the target F rate (for Chesapeake Bay and Albemarle Sound/Roanoke River), and reductions on fishing for striped bass in known spawning areas during the spawning season by at least 50% (for jurisdictions bordering the Hudson River, Delaware River, Chesapeake Bay and Albemarle Sound/Roanoke River).

The commercial and recreational fishery is currently managed through Amendment 6 to the Striped Bass Fishery Management Plan. The Amendment, passed in 2003, allocates the coastal commercial quota and set a two fish bag limit and a 28 inch size minimum for the recreational fishery, with the exception of the Chesapeake Bay fisheries, Albemarle Sound/Roanoke River fisheries, and states with approved alternative regulations.

The Draft Addendum will be developed for preliminary review by the Atlantic Striped Bass Management Board in August. For more information, please contact Kate Taylor, Fishery Management Plan Coordinator, at ktaylor@asmfc.org or 703.842.0740.

[RJC]

Was wondering how you would explain this official statement?


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE, MARCH 24, 2011
PRESS CONTACT, TINA BERGER, 703/842-0740

ASMFC Atlantic Striped Bass Board Initiates Addendum to Reduce Fishing Mortality


Alexandria, VA – The Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission’s Atlantic Striped Bass Management Board has initiated development of Draft Addendum III with the goals of reducing striped bass fishing mortality (F) up to 40% and further protecting spawning stock when it is concentrated and vulnerable. The addendum was initiated in order to allow managers to promptly respond to the results of the stock assessment update in the fall if necessary. Provisions of the addendum, if passed, could be implemented prior to the start of the 2012 fishing year.

The Board’s action responds to recent trends in the fishery and resource, including a 66% decline in estimated recreational catch from 2006 to 2009; a 25% decline in estimated striped bass abundance from 2004 to 2008; and lowered recruitment in recent years. Additionally, states in the northern extent of the fishery have expressed concern over decreased availability of striped bass as a result of the diminished water quality in the Chesapeake Bay during the summer months that may also contribute to increased prevalence of mycobacteriosis in striped bass.

Draft Addendum III will propose a range of fishing management measures including, but not limited to, adjustments to commercial and recreational minimum size (for jurisdictions outside Chesapeake Bay and Albemarle Sound/Roanoke River), reductions in annual coastal commercial allocation, reductions in recreational bag limits, revisions to the target F rate (for Chesapeake Bay and Albemarle Sound/Roanoke River), and reductions on fishing for striped bass in known spawning areas during the spawning season by at least 50% (for jurisdictions bordering the Hudson River, Delaware River, Chesapeake Bay and Albemarle Sound/Roanoke River).

The commercial and recreational fishery is currently managed through Amendment 6 to the Striped Bass Fishery Management Plan. The Amendment, passed in 2003, allocates the coastal commercial quota and set a two fish bag limit and a 28 inch size minimum for the recreational fishery, with the exception of the Chesapeake Bay fisheries, Albemarle Sound/Roanoke River fisheries, and states with approved alternative regulations.

The Draft Addendum will be developed for preliminary review by the Atlantic Striped Bass Management Board in August. For more information, please contact Kate Taylor, Fishery Management Plan Coordinator, at ktaylor@asmfc.org or 703.842.0740.

bababooey posted - "Was wondering how you would explain this official statement?"

The announcement say a couple of things. All of them focused on Chesapeake Bay and its poor water conditions and reduced recruitment to the overall availability of striped bass through out the northern portion of the Chesapeake Bay tribes summer range. (New England) It also shows the system is working.

The annual landings, recreational estimates and commercial actual harvest figures, coupled with reports by headboat captians and individual anglers to their state informational gathering sources raised the flag and a meeting with the technical sections occurred this past August. The meeting that is going to make the final judgement will be held in Boston in the first two weeks of November.

[/COLOR]Draft Addendum III will propose a range of fishing management measures including, but not limited to, adjustments to commercial and recreational minimum size (for jurisdictions outside Chesapeake Bay and Albemarle Sound/Roanoke River), reductions in annual coastal commercial allocation, reductions in recreational bag limits, revisions to the target F rate (for Chesapeake Bay and Albemarle Sound/Roanoke River), and reductions on fishing for striped bass in known spawning areas during the spawning season by at least 50% (for jurisdictions bordering the Hudson River, Delaware River, Chesapeake Bay and Albemarle Sound/Roanoke River).


My focus has always been the Hudson River and the asmfc's last comment in this March, 2011 announcment specifically mentioned my River in this line.

"and reductions on fishing for striped bass in known spawning areas during the spawning season by at least 50% (for jurisdictions bordering the Hudson River, Delaware River, Chesapeake Bay and Albemarle Sound/Roanoke River). "

This March announcement put the entire striped bass fishing community on notice that the reduction in striped bass has been noted and steps would be made to adjust the process by March 2012.


The Hudson River is the only striped bass spawning venue on the east coast that allows an active recreational fishery while the spawning run is going on. This has been the gift to us from a River that keeps on giving. It could be shut down, just like it was in 1985-86 to boost productivity to add to the overall coastal striped bass biomass. In 1985 we didn't even know there was a distinct Delaware striped bass tribe. But whilst the Chesapeake Bay's freshwater tributaries produces the largest percentage of striped bass, the Hudson, Delaware and Albermarle Sound/Roanoke River systems provide a healthy and stable stock that can provide the same boost to the biomass they did in 85-86. The Delaware tribe travels as far north as the Chesapeake Gang does. The ABS/RR Tribe seldom enters the Atlantic Ocean. The Hudson summers as far north as the southern beaches of Cap Cod and Race Point and as far south as Cape May, NJ.

Be prepared to sit out the Hudson Spawning run this spring of have its length cut by 50% or more is what could happen in Boston in a couple of weeks. Complete clousure could be a possibility.


My answer to Darkskies was all about Hudson River fish. The perception that fishing is off in the small area he is getting comments from should not be affected by the condition of the Chesapeake Tribe. Unless the area in question gets a drive by from the spawned out ladies from the Chessy as they stroke northward to Cape Cod Bay and the Gulf of Maine. (Darkskies - ask you friends if they were catching spawned ot females in late April or early May.) If so, they could be seeing the drop caused by less Chessy females migrating north, while the Hudson River females were still spawning or getting ready to spawn.) 80% of migrating fish from the Chessy Bay are females. It could be proof to support your consensus.!

While I'm on the subject of the Hudson River: I received a $10.00 check from the state of NY returning the HR Migratory Fishing fee I paid in Sept., 2010 so I could fish Montauk last Oct. I deposited it and thought that free fishing is nice, but the revenue NY state gave up that was going to be specifically channeled into the Marine Fisherys budget for studies and salaries of fish like the striped bass, American Shad and River Herring (Alewife and Blueback Herring) would have been a better investment. The cost of cutting, stuffing and mailing that double sawbuck to me was deducted from the DEC budget. JMHO

I was born in Manhatten in 1939, and am a believer in that old NY saying - "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch!!"



I hope that answers yor question bababooey!

[nitestrikes]

Just reviewed this. Thanks for your viewpoint RJ. Can't wait till Spring.