where are the bass in the Hudson this year?

[plugginpete]

I don't get it. I have read some posts here where they say the bass winter in the hudson., There was another that said 4 million bass swim up the river to spawn every spring.

If that is true, where the heck are those 4 million bass now?

Here are some recent reports from the Hudson, guys fishing from shore. My buddy has also been there 5 times already and got 1 20" bass near croton. I know they are hitting them in the boats, but come on now, if there are 4 million of them shouldn't we be able to catch some from the shore, especially at croton? Thatr is the early seson hot spot, and I never remember so many guys getting blanked from land. Any thoughts?

Reports
3/30
Only thing worse than 30mph- non stop North wind in your face, snotty churning black water, 3ft waves splashing into the rocks and on to you, is all the above + hungry perch.
If the perch were around and eating, why not the bass?
Hit the river in Northern Westchester last night 6pm to sunset, needed 5 ounces to hold ( bloods). Not a sole or boat anywhere in sight. And as mentioned above, not a bass in sight either. But I roughed it out for a while, man was it cold, wet and windy. Beautiful sunset coupled with stratus cluds made for an unbelievable scene against the mountains.

Anybody seen any bass in the river?


4/2
Tried my luck again yesterday Northern Westchester at 6:30 am for a good part of the outgoing. Was the first one there at 6:30am - unusual for this time of year.
Amazing sunrise, perfect conditions , flat water- looked much clearer that a few days prior from the blow.

Had one hit in 4 hours...even the perch weren't that hungry. Some other people came and had the same results- all on bloods.
Saw one 10 incher come up the entire time.
Good number of boats were concentrated in on area so maybe there was some action. Didn't see any reports though.
Suppposed to warm up a bit this week, so maybe things will heat up in the water by the end of the week.

[plugginpete]

Here is a kayak report. If the kayak guys aren't getting them, where the heck are they?
:huh:
3/30
Third time today on the yak out there this year. It's feast or famine in that river, and so far its been FAMINE! The morning was chilly and breezy, but the sun and clear skies made it all good. The other yak, the shore guys, and even the local in the trailered motor boat all seemed to be doing nothing. The exercise was great, and I saw some leaping carp inshore. Its a good diversion for a couple weeks until the sound shore season gets legal.

[fishinmission78]

PP, I don't believe that 4 million figure. Someone wrote something about the hudson fish wintering there, a big bay or dam or something. Some guy also wrote that the hudson fish only go as far south in the off season as cape may. I saw it posted that last week fish were off the coast of maryland and headed north. Some of them had to be hudson fish because they arent really thick in the delaware bay yet. I don't know what to believe. The only thing I was thinking, is that it was reported here that there are now bass from brigantine to sandy hook, offshore. That is a distance of about 70 nautical miles, maybe more.
Does someone want to say if they are not in the hudson now, and only in that 70 mile stretch, that is a total of 4 million fish? That would be total bs. jmho.

[nitestrikes]

If you break it down into geometry.
Say the Jersey ocean area is said to be fish from 1-3 miles out, X 70 miles, for the Husdson fish.
That's a rectangle = to 210 square miles.

Say the ny bight is a square, equal to 10x 10 miles of water that could hold bass, 100 square miles.

Assume the hudson is 1 mile wide (average), and 80 miles long of spawning area, although that isn't true because they spawn in 3 or 4 general areas. For sake of simplicity we'll say that's true. Assume that not all the water can hold bass, just the average water that is 3' or more. 80 miles length x 1 mile wide = 80 square miles, in a rough, quick estimate.

210 + 100 + 80 = 390 square miles.
4,000.000 divided by 390 = 10,256 bass PER SQUARE MILE.

Have you ever in your life been in a place where there were 10,256 bass AVERAGE in a square mile?
They say it's impossible to count fish.
I just did. If anyone would disagree with my math, that's your opinion, you can figure it out yourself.
All I know is, there is no way that 4 million bass spawn in the Hudson, based on where the bass are now, in such a limited area. If that were true the Jersey guys would each be catching at least 100 bass per trip.
I have been scanning the NJ charter reports and see they are catching,. I don't have many contacts over there other than Dark and some family. If anyone can show me where the Jersey guys are catching 100 bass per trip, per angler, or anything even close to that, please post up.

[nitestrikes]

I didn't take the E River into account.

Also made an assumption that the Sound bass that spawn in the Hudson are already on ther way up the river. That is almost impossible to tell with complete accuracy, so we'll have to account for some abnormality.
Add another 50 square miles or so. I don't have time to do the math.
I think it's fair to say that even with added square miles, even a figure of 10.000 bass per square mile, average saturation of bass in that area is absolutely laughable.
Even 9000 bass per square mile is ridiculous. These are average figures here, meaning you could actually find more than that in areas of greater saturation like below the dam and the deep holes in the Hudson. No way.

[skinner]

Spot-on analysis, nitestrikes. should you have made an error in math, dropping the average bass/square mile figure by 20% to 8000 shows how crazy that 4 million figure is.
I don't believe the total biomass numbers they tell us anyway. Your simple math is a pretty good illustration why.
I think the catch statistics are a lot more accurate because they involve actual catches, but they still have a long way ot go in that dept as well. My .02.

[paco33]

I never thought it about it that way skinner, thanks for sharing. Some buddies have been fishing the banks from Croton north for 2 weeks now and the best fish they got was 23". For 2 weeks of fishing and all those bloodworms, not worth it. Someone is fudging the numbers for sure.

[7deadlyplugs]

They reported a few nicer ones Wed night. Seems to be an end of day bite right now.

[Monty]

If that is true, where the heck are those 4 million bass now?


Maybe there are not as many alive as there were the last few years.

[DarkSkies]

Maybe there are not as many alive as there were the last few years.

I'm trying my best to stay out of this thread for awhile, Monty...wanted to reserve comments until I asked RJ to come in here and give his opinion....

But your post was so logical I feel compelled to comment on it....

Guys this year are already talking of "Epic" action in the ocean, the bays, etc....
Some of them use that action to support statements that the striped bass stocks are better than ever...
Or they point to the Winter Action in NJ as further proof...
That just rubs me the wrong way because I feel a Capt making that statement, or someone else who's been fishing more than 3 seasons, should know better....

From what I have seen so far, all this "Epic" action is because we don't normally see these fish....
They "normally" are tucked away in the deep channels and harbors of the NJ/NY Bight, and the deep pools of the Hudson...that didn't happen over the winter...so we're seeing these fish now....

I think the lack of a real bite in the Hudson so far, as of April 11, is significant...
I know what they're catching up there...I get texts and pics and reports sent to me.
Up until a week ago it was dismal for the majority of guys fishing up there.
(I also know of some good sized fish taken, but so far those are in the minority...)

The relatively mild winter would seem to indicate a more robust bite....and it hasn't turned out that way...
As mentioned, I have been meaning to call RJ and ask him to respond here...

I really do consider him to be a Hudson expert, and I would ask that if he does respond here you folks give him some respect...

In the meantime, thanks for making that simple but logical point, Monty..
:clapping:I wish some other folks saw this as easily as you did....:learn:

[jigfreak]

Or they point to the Winter Action in NJ as further proof...
That just rubs me the wrong way because I feel a Capt making that statement, or someone else who's been fishing more than 3 seasons, should know better....

From what I have seen so far, all this "Epic" action is because we don't normally see these fish....
They "normally" are tucked away in the deep channels and harbors of the NJ/NY Bight, and the deep pools of the Hudson...that didn't happen over the winter...so we're seeing these fish now....

They should know, but they don't. Cmon now ds you are giving some of these capts too much credit. Half of them are fluke fishermen who are only fishing for bass cuz that's where the money is now.

[Monty]

They should know, but they don't. Cmon now ds you are giving some of these capts too much credit. Half of them are fluke fishermen who are only fishing for bass cuz that's where the money is now.

And some people know better, but instead say stuff that will benefit themselves or their buddies.

[surfstix1963]

Spring time hype as far as I'm concerned most of the fish migrate a few miles off the beach into the inlets to the bays so if your going to fish don't waste time on the beach park your butt at an inlet or hit the back bays it is the hwy in and out every year most fishing reports are for A-holes unless you trust that report is from a good person.As far as the Hudson spawn could be late most likely or whole lot less fish are having successful spawns.Bottom line is theres less fish every year less spawning and in a perfect world in about 7-10 years the bass that have survived may be back in large numbers and decent sizes only to be wiped out again. Just my .02 cents

[gjb1969]

well i have only got word of a few fish and most so far are just keepers not to many large bass yet but its early so lets see what happens when the bait get going good i have bin up as far as edge water its slow and very little bait this is just my feelings when we get a good run of bait we get a good run of bass in the last few years when the bait was gone so were the fish it was the same at so many spots i fish on the river

[hookset]

I think its all made up, the numbers. A buddy was fishing Kingston today and only got a few bass up to 27". He's disgusted with the run so far this year.

[skinner]

Even 9000 bass per square mile is ridiculous. These are average figures here, meaning you could actually find more than that in areas of greater saturation like below the dam and the deep holes in the Hudson. No way.

I did some research, this is what I found:


The striped bass spawning area in the Hudson River stretches approximately 60 miles from New York Harbor to West Point, New York. It is important to know that the actual spawning area of striped bass is fairly limited because they require a certain water salinity range (3 to 7 parts per thousand) to insure larval survival. In addition, the spawning area is limited due to pollution.

And then there was a guy on the internet saying this:
"This is the Hudson River spawning pattern and I've been told that it holds true for most tidal river systems.
The Hudson hosts upwards of 5 to 7 million striped bass annually. They begin entering the system in late February and early March and continue to enter it right through early May.
Stripers spawn in the main river and occiasionally in major tribs. "




They say that liars figure, but figures don't lie.
I did some checking of these numbers. Assume 5 million bass spawn in the river every year, the bottom number of what this guy above is saying.

Lets say the Hudson river is 2 miles across. i know that really isn't true but lets assume that anyway. 60 x 2 is 120 square miles. Divide 5 million fish into 120 square miles.

That give you about 41,666 bass per square mile.
41,566 bass per square mile, how is that even possible?

I can't even begin to think what it would look like if you had 41,000 bass per aquare mile. I can't think what 41,000 bunker per square mile looks like, let alone 41000 bass.

Someone somewhere is so full of crap that it is spilling out of their ears.
I would really like to see some expert explain this to me.

[hookset]

^ I def agree, no way there could be that many.

[strikezone31]

Skinner if that were true the bass would choke on their own waste. Ridiculous.

[lostatsea]

William "Doc" Muller on bass in the Chesapeake and Hudson. Doc has written a few books and knows his ****.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoljiwS2puI

[BassBuddah]

Muller is spot on in his assessment. Thanks for posting that.

[nitestrikes]

William "Doc" Muller on bass in the Chesapeake and Hudson. Doc has written a few books and knows his ****.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoljiwS2puI

Where are they?
Simply said, spot on.:thumbsup: