Why saving the Bunker....will NOT Increase the Bass Numbers.....

[DarkSkies]

A lot of you know that I maintain an internet presence on most of the fishing sites out there.
I do this mainly to

Help Fight for Fishermens Rights....

Raise awareness of certain Conservation and Access Issues,

Try to educate folks as to what happened to cause the Striped Bass moratorium.

And help folks to weed out the mis-information and hidden agendas out there of Eco-Friendly and Pro-Environment groups masquerading as being Pro-Fisherman (This is a common PEW Trust political tactic, fully explained later in this thread, and other threads in our archives).

[DarkSkies]

The latest "Rallying Cry" is to save the bunker, allegedly because their "numbers are down so far the stock is in danger of collapsing" :kooky:



I do agree, in fact, that the numbers are down.
I do agree that we need to reign in the greedy corporate factory ships of Omega Protein and others to ensure that the bunker that we have today, are also here for us tomorrow......













However, there are certain groups who have a PRO-Environmental slant, whose agendas are unclear.
Some of these groups count among their supporters,....

1. Folks who openly agree with and condone PEW policies.
2, Folks who openly agree with the MPA's that have been imposed in this country (particularly in California), and openly support them for NJ. :scared:


In my opinion, you cannot be a fisherman, interested in fishermen issues, and Equally claim to support the above 2 issues at the same time.










My discussions/arguments with folks like this have caused a lot of commenting and attention.

Sometimes, I think these discussion are seen in a negative light.
This is because there are times I cannot contain my passion for striped bass, and have little sympathy for Captains who claim over and over, that we are having the best seasons ever, when the actual number of bass dwindles every year.

I believe this is because there are a lot of folks out there, who don't fully understand the Striped Bass Biomass numbers, what is happening, and the Correlation, or lack of Correlation, to the Bunker biomass.

[DarkSkies]

I really do have impatience with a lot of folks out there, because I feel anyone on the water regularly should be able to see this as well.

In retrospect, I understand that an adverserial discussion will turn people off.

So, I will have to lay this out for folks, step by step.......
And please bear with me as it will take some time....


And, as always, dissenting opinions are always welcome, and encouraged....as long as you can back it up...:HappyWave:




Please be aware that when you see the claims and assertions I'm making here, they are a composite of hundreds of conversations and informal interviews with veteran anglers, who have been fishing for decades.

I'm just the sounding board, for folks who don't have the energy any more to protest how crazy things have become.

Thanks for reading, folks.....

[DarkSkies]

Where is there a problem and shortage of bunker?........


1. Cheasapeake Bay
(there is also a problem of myco-bacteriosis in the Chesapeake, to be discussed separately)


2. Long Island Sound
Many folks I know who fish the Sound have complained about the steady decrease in the number of bunker they see. They will see them for a few weeks in the Spring, and then they somehow disappear from the fishermens' radar....


3. New England
Some areas in Mass, have been complainiing of dramatic decreases in the bunker they see.


Overall, over the last decade, the OVERALL RANGE of the bunker MIGRATION has shrunk. This is significant. Looking for answers to this leads one to the inevitable conclusion that the bunker biomass has shrunk as well.

This statement above is true.
Although the bunker migration has shifted for a myriad of reasons, the shrinking of the biomass is a large part of it,.






Anyone referring to the areas above, has a valid complaint, as my numerous contacts in these areas tell me the same sad story. In this areas, their lack of bunker is not only real, they feel it is hurting their fsihing because ADULT bunker as a forage fish has richer content than any other forage fish.

[DarkSkies]

Does this apply to NJ as well?
Absolutely not.


Examples....

How many times in the past 2 years have you heard the following phrases?


* We had a lot of bunker but nothing underneath them.

* We snagged and dropped, with no takers.

* We drifted live bunker for 2 hours this moring, with no results.

*.We were on top of thousands of bunker, and they were all happy.

* We made bait, had 100 pieces in our livewell, but could find no bass, only bluefish that chopped them to pieces.

* We could find no bass under the bluefish.

* There were bunker from Island Beach to Point Pleasant, with not one bass to be found underneath.

* There were acres of bunker from Sandy Hook to Manasquan, and we couldn't find one pod that had a bass.

* Plenty of bait today (bunker) but no takers.

* Ran out to the ocean and found a huge swell, miles of bait and again, no bite.

[DarkSkies]

Does this apply to NJ as well?
Absolutely not.


Examples....

How many times in the past 2 years have you heard the following phrases?


* We had a lot of bunker but nothing underneath them.




Here's the latest in the "Millions of Bunker, no bass under them" NJ Myth that more bunker will bring us more bass......




10 minutes ago I got a phone call from a long-time friend and hardcore fisherman who fishes 5-7 nights a week.
He has some 30# surf bass under his belt so far this year, dozens of hours/ week, and quite a few entire days invested, to get these fish in the surf.....

Well, it's been pretty spotty for the NNJ surf guys in the last week, as the traditional bunker blitzes that usually happen for us by May 10, have not happened (for the surf areas) in any meaningful pattern this year, as of yet.....

The guys in boats have better access, and not being able to catch a bass after a week of effort, was killing him.....

So he went out with a friend in a boat yesterday to try to pick up some bigger bass...


Backstory....
The friend who took him out, has 35 years of experience catching fish on his boat....
And the day before, on Wednesday, when others weren't all doing well, managed 2 bass in the 40# range, by snagging and dropping bunker......

So my good friend goes out with him on Thursday.











They fished a total of 12 hours, and this is his report phoned in to me:



"We were out there with miles of bunker, from the Ferrris Wheel at Seaside to the Shrewsbury Rocks, a good 20 nautical miles of bunker.....
These bunker were THICK, from 1/2 mile out, to 2 1/2 miles out.
We snagged and dropped, fished chunks, for hours at a time.

We marked literally hundreds of thousands of bunker, hundreds of separate pods, and could not mark one bass, underneath all of those bunker..

I don't get it...one day a feast, the next day a famine.....how could guys say there are more fish than ever?
They have to be out of their ******* minds! ":don't know why:

[finchaser]

There are tons of bunker IMO bunker will be the demise of the bass thanks to all the snag and drop self proclaimed professionals . i can't wait for the bait boats to arrive

[jigfreak]

There are tons of bunker IMO bunker will be the demise of the bass thanks to all the snag and drop self proclaimed professionals . i can't wait for the bait boats to arrive

If you put half the snag and drop guys on a deserted island with 2 options, bucktail or led head with rubber, 90% of them would starve. Thats the only way most of them can catch a fish. Kill all the bunker. I will still catch plenty of bass.

[dogfish]

Some great points you make here ds. I can tell ya that in Ma, we don't see the bunker runs we used to because the migration has changed. I know there are less. I know some commercial guys who used to be pigs way back when it was profitable to net them. We are part of this equation, not only omega. However, now at this stage of the game is doesn't seem that the bunker come in close for a good part of the season. They come in Boston Harbor only briefly. Other times it's thick with them. Some times they are from 2-10 miles offshore so a lot of folks don't see them. At least this is what my lobstering friends tell me.

They aren't thick enough here at any one time to make a living from netting them. We are now getting them (for the lobster boats) from down South somewhere. I think from New Jersey.

[captnemo]

We were at the Shrewsbury Rocks Sunday. More bunker than I have seen in the last 5 years. In the past, that would have meant that we could have limited out in 15 minutes. It took 2 hours of trolling and that was in poor conditions.We did get bass to the 30# class, only 2. The bluefish were all over, but not the bass. I don't see how folks can say there are not enough bunker. Stiupid.

[DarkSkies]

Thanks for the perspectives...


There is also a thread started by a friend of mine, called "Where are the Striped Bass?"
anyone who wants to undertstand the big picture could learn a lot from reading it......

http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?760-Where-are-the-Striped-Bass


UPDATE:
In the past week, some bigger fish have been caught...some 40's and some 50's....
In many cases the guys who caught them have been out all day, and it took 10-12 hours to come up with those trophy bass....

With miles and miles of bunker, there should be thousands of big bass under them,.....As related above, some have said it't the most bunker they've seen in NJ in years.....and yet....the bass are few and far between.......

Of any evidence that can be offered to disprove the claims that the bass are "starving"...
These miles and miles of bunker, off the NJ Coast right now, would be one of the most damaging pieces of evidence against those claims.....

[DarkSkies]

The following is a true story. I'm not naming the Capt who said this, though I feel I should....
Anyone who wants further details feel free to PM me for the specifics...all the following is verifiable....and sickening..........



Earlier in the week, a Capt left Manasquan Inlet, early Am, looking for bass.
He went all the way up to the Shrewsbury rocks, found acres of bunker,. lots of bluefish, but no bass.

He snagged and dropped bunker all day....not one bass was caught by him in the miles of water he covered....



At the end of the day right in front of the Manasquan Inlet, he finds some nervous bunker....snags and drops a few.....

Ends up with a 47# bass...
And one in the 30's.



He gets back to the barn, weighs the 2 fish in for points at a tackle shop in that area (many tourneys require official weigh-ins and award points, in some cases 1 point for each pound...)


After he weighs these 2 fish in, he asks the guys in the shop....

"Does anyone want these?
I don't want them, and don't eat big bass because they taste like crap"


http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.png

He ended up giving the 2 fish away....
True story, folks....

And the sad thing is,. there are countless others out there like this Capt....in it for the glory, and nothing else matters......:(

[fishinmission78]

That guy is a complete and total a-hole. You should post his name, dark.

[hookset]

What a waste of fish. fishing for points only what a tool.

[bababooey]

What if he caught it and gave it away to a neighbor?
Would that be as bad an offense here?

I understand the irritation over killing fish for points guys. And the comments made where he weighed it were pretty stupid. But what if he brought it home and didn't want it. Gave it to his next door neighbor? Where do you all want to draw the line here? Not trying to argue just presenting a different take on it.

[DarkSkies]

Does this apply to NJ as well?
Absolutely not.
Examples....



How many times in the past 2 years have you heard the following.....



Some more examples:


* Fished front this morning from 5 till about 830. All the bunker you needed, just no fish. Trolled as well before the bunker started showing up with no takers as well. Tried several different schools of bunker, same results. Nada! Nobody hooking up from what I saw.


* I was out all day Wed, all the bait one could ask for from BI- MI. Solid bunker all the way, from just outside the breakers to the 3 mi zone. Didn't see or hear of one bass being caught.


* Trolled off ibsp today 5-8 pm. Nada. Bunker down deep no fish on them.


* Went north inside to MI and went north. Spring lake area 35 to 48 feet awesome marks. Needless to say saw lots of fish bunker and no fish on the parker.

[DarkSkies]

^^
Bababooey, I understand your point. If someoine catches a bass it's up to them to give it to whoever they want. There are no laws against that, and IMO there shouldn't be....but too many of these big bass end up in dumpsters because the guys who catch them are catching them for bragging rights or points.

After many site members and friends calling and telling me of this trend by some, I witnessed it first hand several times. There were times I spoke up about it by directly confronting those doing it. I probably made some enemies in the fishing world because of it. Oh, well. :don't know why:










In all honesty, we are now starting to see less of this, but it still happens regularly.

One of the examples that sticks out in my head was in 2011.

Finchaser and I ended up on an OC beach at the tail end of what had been an hours long bass and bunker blitz. A lot of guys we know were dragging fish in the 30# class and above off the beach, as there were a few tourneys that week.

There was one older couple we knew who dragged 3 fish above 30# onto the pavement near their SUV. As they were getting ready to leave, they asked if anyone wanted the fish, because they had no use for them.

It absolutely sickened me that they did that....if you're gonna eat them, fine....
But for Pete's sake, to waste them like that...just to take pictures of yourself holding a big fish? :rolleyes: http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.png
What if no one wanted them....those fish would have ended up in a dumpster....


Because I'm usually so outspoken, I honestly regret not speaking up that one time. There were some politics involved as the group they were with is part of a very well known group of surfcasters that know everyone else. We were so shocked that they themselves would do that, that it caught me by surprise and I should have spoken up. One of the rare times I didn't. :o

I relate that example to let you all know not only of my regrets, but that it is still happening.


I think we have another thread on it somewhere. I'll try to find it and put these posts in it when I get a chance.




IMO if striped bass are to truly survive and prosper with all the increased pressure they now have, we need to educate others out there that killing fish, just for the glory, and wasting the resource after they're dead, is not an admirable thing to do. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.png

[buckethead]

I don't understand people who will kill a big bass only for the pictures or the points. Senseless.

[fishinmission78]

No need to save the bunker any more. The netters showed up, and are loading up big time.

[buckethead]

You should have seen all the bunker today in nomoco dark. Bunch of blues but not a bass to be found under them.

[voyager35]

There are more bunker off the coast of NJ right now than there have been in the last 5 years. There are bass, scattered, under these pods. If the bunker were in danger we would not have 12 miles at a time of coastline full of bunker. I think the movement behind the save the bunker folks is some other agenda. maybe eco-preservationists. They certainly don't represent my views.

[finchaser]

There are more bunker off the coast of NJ right now than there have been in the last 5 years. There are bass, scattered, under these pods. If the bunker were in danger we would not have 12 miles at a time of coastline full of bunker. I think the movement behind the save the bunker folks is some other agenda. maybe eco-preservationists. They certainly don't represent my views.

Many of the new breed of bass fisherman the snag and drop group can't catch fish any other way they will not admit the bass are being wiped out at an alarming rate. As the population of bass decreases and the bunker increase the bass spread out. The answer the bass are starving we need to save the bunker or how will we catch fish. They kill an enormous amount snagging and netting and then they cry we must save the bunker pretty Hippocratic. They better start releasing fish and worry about saving the bass as the bunker will be the demise of the bass this time around. IMO thank god the bunker boat are here they eliminate the bunker and the snag and droppers who will go back to where ever the hell they came from..

[DarkSkies]

Some more reports to confirm all the bunker, and the relative low numbers of bass relative to those bunker........



* This am, found bunker with fish on em .no dice for me though.

* Hit some popular areas for sunrise, popping away, all the bunker you wanted, not a single bass.

* Went out Sunday and Monday for bass saw an unbelievable amount of bunker all along the beach from the tip of Sandy Hook down to the bridge. Snagged bait both days fished the pods and all around them with nothing to show for it, picked up a few blues both days.

* Al Ristori - "There are loads of bunkers all along the northern Shore that don't seem to have hungry stripers under them very often. Tank Matraxia and his Lyndhurst crew fished Shrewsbury Rocks today with Capt. Fletcher Chayes on his Riverman from Bahrs Landing in Highlands, but they didn't even get a bluefish there on live bunkers."

* No bunker early until we hit Seaside. Found tons of bunker but nothing under them. Running back home around noon we hit two nice size pods off CG station but no bites there either. Big fat skunk for the day great weather but no fish.

[jigfreak]

This is what I saw from the surf today, fellas. moco

I got out there early this afternoon in search of some bass. I found 15 miles of bunker, so thick it looked like the whole ocean was aliive at times. Not one bass to be found under them.

[dogfish]

Folks are short sighted, dark. they only see whats in front of them. Haven't ya learned that by now?:HappyWave:

[DarkSkies]

Various comments from LI Sound Fishermen....


LI Sound reports...I have friends who for years have been saying there are not enough bunker in the Sound...well, for 2012, the bunker are there, and the bass are (relatively) scarce relative to the amounts of bunker..

* LI Sound End of May report Rye NY to Stamford, CT:
Fished Sat night from 7:00 to 10:00 and then Mon morning from 7:00 to 11:00.
Both days Bunker everywhere but no Bass or Blues pressuring them.
Nice day on the boat. But no Fish.


* Got out Sat, Sun and Mon this wknd feeling pretty good at my chances to get into the fish, unfortunately they didnt cooperate. I will say this, I've never seen this much Bunker in the sound this early in this type of quantity. You could literally move anywhere and still see fish breaking water and schooled up.
Still looking for the first Bass of the season.


* Trolled and chunked endlessly with not so much as a run off.
I've never seen this many Bunker in the sound as long as I can remember. They were EVERYWHERE the past couple days. I've seen more bunker today and yesterday than I think I saw all last season. Unbelievable.


* Loaded up on bunker as the schools were everywhere and headed to Execution. A great day if you like Bluefish luckily we have people who like them. Unfortunately not a Bass to be had and it did not look like any of the other boats had any either.

* There is so much bunker out there now it's amazing...try and find a school that has fish on it...you can run over the schools and mark fish under them or very close by, there is an awful lot of bunker out there right now that is completely un-harassed by any fish, there "happy bunker"...I saw so much bunker this weekend tailing on the surface, it mindboggling how much bunker showed up last week.

[DarkSkies]

Folks are short sighted, dark. they only see whats in front of them. Haven't ya learned that by now?:HappyWave:


I guess I haven't, dogfish.....when people talk about how great fishing is, or hype it up to the point where there claims are not reflective of reality....it puzzles me. The only explanation I have for this, is that they are somehow connected with businesses that need a constant stream of customers. Whether there are fish are not, these businesses need fishermen to come through their doors and buy bait.

I understand that part of it...but on the other hand, there are folks who drive great distances to get to the beach areas to fish...if the fishing is poor or spotty, I think that info is important, and there should be some place folks can go to get honest reports and not hype up hyperbole....maybe that's just me...:don't know why:.I think if you are honest with your customers they will keep coming back....















Some comments from fishermen in the LBI area......




* South out of BI has been a barren catastrophe the entire Spring. North or bust. I wish it were different, but in front of LBI has been a big, fat ZERO


* I was out on Sunday...the only boat off Surf City and was surrounded by a huge school of bunker. Had all the bait I could ever want, but couldn't find anything under it

[DarkSkies]

We have a similar situation 2 years later.....
Bunker for miles.....
Some nice bass under specific pods....but few bass relative to the large amounts of bunker...

Thought some might like to re-visit this thread....and have additional comments.....