Review: Daiwa DSP and DSM - Pros and Cons.....

[DarkSkies]

The Daiwa plug took the surfcasting industry by surprise.

[DarkSkies]

One minute it was relatively unknown.....

Then guys were catching fish with it, and blacking out the plug when posting the pics to keep it secret....

And eventually it got into mainstream use, and became so popular that some shops can't keep them in stock....

[DarkSkies]

Based on the strong support for the Daiwa, I thought I wouild start a separate thread for it here......



A kind of review thread, where some of us....

talk about the SP and SM (smaller version),
how it has added to our fishing,
and any positive or negative comments you want to add for an honest review.....



Thanks for your opinions! :HappyWave:

[finchaser]

IMO bye bye bomber. better cast,better swim in rough water ,better catch .Lets not forget I tested the SP over 2 years ago and was one of the first to use a bomber when Joe of Stevens Bait abd Tackle was one of the first shops tp have bombers

[Monty]

I have fished it very little, couple bass on it. Casts great, incredible for that profile. Only con I could think of is that the hardware needs to be changed on it before using.

[finchaser]

forgot to mention like monty says the hardware needs to be up graded to #4HD split ring and 1/0 size 4x stong hook

[jigfreak]

Yup. i think it was the best thing out there when herring were around. Bunker, not so much.

[storminsteve]

forgot to mention like monty says the hardware needs to be up graded to #4HD split ring and 1/0 size 4x stong hook

Thanks finchaser.

[basshunter]

Good advice, Wondered if any body had advice using them when the water is dirty or rough? thanks

[finchaser]

yes sir got fish on the orange belly one in the the river and when the PP canal was ripping no problem

[fishinmission78]

I think it is killer for night time when the sand eels are around.

[jigfreak]

I pull it out when nothing else will work. Lets not forget loaded bombers too guys. They are actually better and it seems guys forgot all about them. The loaded bombers and needles were killer at IBSP for us last fall, much better than the sps.

[CharlieTuna]

We like to use it in the harbor and bays in MA when tinker mackerel are around. It matches the hatch perfectly.

[rockhopper]

I like them and they have been good for me around the inlets. The rattles rock. I upgraded my hooks though and stronger split rings.

[porgy75]

We like to use it in the harbor and bays in MA when tinker mackerel are around. It matches the hatch perfectly.

Thanks for that Charlie. I didn't even think it would be good in a bay and thought you had to fish it in the surf. I will try it out in the fall when the bass go after the peanut bunkers and mullets.

[finchaser]

Thanks for that Charlie. I didn't even think it would be good in a bay and thought you had to fish it in the surf. I will try it out in the fall when the bass go after the peanut bunkers and mullets.

Plug works in the surf ,river or bay all season long

[storminsteve]

Plug works in the surf ,river or bay all season long


Worked for me last night. It was the only thing they would hit!

[williehookem]

There is a back of an inlet I fish when it is nasty out. Right before a noreaster. Incoming tide. These things are the ****. Like magic. Other times and places it is hit or miss for me.

[DarkSkies]

Like magic. Other times and places it is hit or miss for me.


I'm glad you mentioned that Willie....


Some guidelines of when I do and don't use it, based on...
Swells, and Duration....

Swell size and ocean roughness.....

For me there are different factors that cause me to pull the Daiwa SM or SP out...but the one consistent factor lately, that has caused me to not fish it like I usually do...is the swell size.

This info is based on my experience, yours may differ....
In an inlet, river, or bay area, the decisions may be different because the water is (generally) more stable, and the plug stays in a relatively small window in the water column.....

As the surf gets rougher, I have found that the Daiwa moves around too much. Of course, this depends on where you are fishing as well. For me, I have found other smaller plugs that work as well or better, but your presentation of them, as well as the Daiwa, is what will allow one angler to out-fish another, at times 2:1.

For me, generally speaking, I like the swell size to be 0-2' on nights when there is not a lof of bait around, and you have to hunt for the fish.

Any swells that are higher, and I will look for something that dives a little deeper and digs in better to the surf between the waves.

There is also something called duration, which I have also written an article about.
Mid-period swell.
Intermittent period swell.
The faster the duration, (2-4 secs) the less likely I am to pull out the Daiwa and fish it...

[DarkSkies]

I
For me, generally speaking, I like the swell size to be 0-2' on nights when there is not a lof of bait around, and you have to hunt for the fish.

Any swells that are higher, and I will look for something that dives a little deeper and digs in better to the surf between the waves.

There is also something called duration, which I have also written an article about.
Mid-period swell.
Intermittent period swell.
The faster the duration, (2-4 secs) the less likely I am to pull out the Daiwa and fish it...

I would also add that when mullet are moving through the surf, this is a great night time plug.









Any other thoughts?

[storminsteve]

I like to give it a slow retrieve. If the surf is big I fish it sideways in the troth depending on whether the general current is coming from the north or the south. I like the action and the rattles. I always have one in my bag and it is the first plug I pull out.

[nitestrikes]

Twitch it every now and then. When the water gets colder this will give you some nice fish. small one for when rainbait are around, the larger sp for mullet herring and peanut bunker.

[skinner]

The thing for me about this plug is the cast-ability (Is that a word?) You can toss it into windy conditions and you can't do that with a bomber.

[finchaser]

They are SP and Ds minnows by Diawa there is no such thing as a DM minnow

[DarkSkies]

Thank you OGB.....:thumbsup: :HappyWave:





***********
When I talk about the SP....there may be some confusion because my favorite of the 2, is the DSM, the smaller version.

I have had nights where fish were picky, especially when small rainfish and spearing are the primary forage. I would rather use this smaller plug for a lot of the fishing I do as it is shorter and more closely resembles small baitfish.

I still like the SP for when it's windier or you need to cast out further.














To add to this,,,,,

There has been a lot of bluefish action in the blitzes lately....
Big bass are lazy and generally speaking......will follow behind the bigger blues looking for scraps......


ML Swimmers have been a good way to pick some of these bigger bass up....but in areas where there are multiple kinds of forage such as rainfish and spearing in addition to the bunker....some friends have been picking up stray bass...long after the blitz is over, by patiently casting with SPs....










Anyone else have any thoughts on the DSM...anyone out there using them besides me and some friends? Let's hear about it and any thoughts you have......

[finchaser]

since i'm not always in your good graces I use the DS in the back.

[BassBuddah]

This plug is the only thing some of the newer folks want to throw. I wonder if in 5 years from now there will be anyone fishing good old fashioned bombers and redfins.

[Monty]

This plug is the only thing some of the newer folks want to throw. I wonder if in 5 years from now there will be anyone fishing good old fashioned bombers and redfins.
And Mambo Minnows. I like to try to catch on "the not hot plug".

[vpass]

This plug is the only thing some of the newer folks want to throw. I wonder if in 5 years from now there will be anyone fishing good old fashioned bombers and redfins.

I just bought 7 Redfins, and 5 more Bombers, I'm going to load a few Redfins, and Bombers.

The Hype on the internet is making everyone think the SP are the only game in town. I'm going to still throw the bag to see what the Bass wants.

[DarkSkies]

And Mambo Minnows. I like to try to catch on "the not hot plug".


You have always marched to the beat of a different drummer....I eagerly await your trip reports this Spring...:HappyWave:

[DarkSkies]

Is color important?
many times I have fished a beat up mag darter or Daiwa SP (in the surf at night) just to prove a point, at times when there is no ambient lighting or the water is not crystal clear, the color is secondary to presentation....it's the fisherman who catches the fish, not the lure....guys who get hung up on all these special colors they have now, should read this carefully....




This is from the winter fishing thread...and shows one plug that I caught over 100 bass on.,...the plug is beat to crap and ugly as hell...(yes I know it needs new hooks)..but the fish didn't care...IMO in this specific case of fishing the surf at night, the presentation was more important than the color.



Post #31
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?8168-Winter-Fishing-Thread/page3

Some pics.... http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/misc/paperclip.png Attached Thumbnailshttp://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=14553&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1324935703 (http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=14553&d=1324935703)



http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=14556&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1324935707 (http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=14556&d=1324935707)

[DarkSkies]

I just bought 7 Redfins, and 5 more Bombers, I'm going to load a few Redfins, and Bombers.

The Hype on the internet is making everyone think the SP are the only game in town. I'm going to still throw the bag to see what the Bass wants.


Great point Vpass.:thumbsup:...I think there is an upcoming thread on this soon....:HappyWave:


Any other thoughts?

[jigfreak]

I just bought 7 Redfins, and 5 more Bombers, I'm going to load a few Redfins, and Bombers.

The Hype on the internet is making everyone think the SP are the only game in town. I'm going to still throw the bag to see what the Bass wants.

Old school cred.:thumbsup:
Me too. You cant tell what they want till you get out there for that evening.

[finchaser]

Old school cred.:thumbsup:
Me too. You cant tell what they want till you get out there for that evening.

:don't know why:Everyone knows it clams :huh:

[storminsteve]

^^^:laugh: :clapping:

[DarkSkies]

Although SPs are admittedly one of the great products to come on the market in the last few years, they do have their limitations.....
(I say this not to pick arguments with people, but only to share my experiences and what is working for me, right now)....I have fished side by side with groups of surfcasters throwing the SP, because someone told them the SP was a killer plug, and will outfish all others, in all conditions......but for the conditions we were fishing, the SPs did not produce

And I'm sorry, because although I love the SP, IMO no one plug will crush the fish in all situations....(just sharing my experience, here, again)


There are plenty of old timers who use redfins, or loaded redfins and outfish many of the other profiles....
I don't know why they aren't more popular.....it seems in the angling community there is a continuous push for the next best thing.....








The one point to raise here, is that in the summer the fishing slows down.....,,many guys give up because with the small amounts of bass around it becomes more frustrating to target them,,,,so many assume they are just not there.....
If you were to scuba or free dive you would see bass sitting near the bottom in certain areas......feeding on small bait, crabs, etc......
A small bucktail is ideal for targeting them in these situations....

Again, every situation is different.....your choice of what you throw would be guided by the conditions and forage for where you are fishing.....
However, it''s my experience, that when the fish are lower in the water column...the SP sometimes cannot reach that zone...and a loaded redfin or a small bucktail or rubber jig, will allow you to present to more fish, and increase your catches.......

[DarkSkies]

Old school cred.:thumbsup:
Me too. You cant tell what they want till you get out there for that evening.


:don't know why:Everyone knows its clams :huh:



Yep, that finchaser definitely has old-school credibility.....:thumbsup:
He's older than dirt......:laugh:

As for credibility....and advice on clamming.....back in the early days...when he was in his 20s, just a young pup........his *** sat on a bucket clamming at the beach for so many hours at a time, that he had a permanent ring on it...:ROFLMAO..if you search in medical journals for the "finchaser ring" you will see a pic of the ring around his ***. ;) :kiss: :HappyWave:

[DarkSkies]

Small and skinny bait is a good idea to use a small and skinny something or other to throw at the fish.
When the mullet and bunker are big and thick I start useing bigger stuff.


Most of the Bass I have caught this August have been on the 5 1/2" loaded Red Fin.
Very Skinny

Very good points, guys. :thumbsup:




The SP vs the SM......for Fall Fishing....
First introduced to the public in Mid 2008 (Finchaser and friends were testing them in 2007)

Many of the threads out there have been about the SPs.....some like them because they are longer, a little heavier. You can get more distance from them and punch them out better if it's windy.

This video where I review and upgrade the Daiwa, is actually the DSM, the smaller one.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4fqb9hr7L0

Have had a lot of success with that one with fish to the low 20# range.

To recap....
DSM, or SM:
4 1/3 to 5 1/4" long, weighing 4/9 to 2/3 oz...13F series said to be the most popular

DSP. or SP:
6" long, and approx 1 1/4 oz...15F series said to be the most popular

However, for most of the year, when smaller bait is around, I'm partial to the Daiwa SM, or DSM as some refer to them.
I'm upgrading the hooks and split rings, so that's no problem should I run into a bigger fish.
What I like the best about it, is the small profile.....

Realistically, many baitfish in the back bays at this time are 2-4"....hence my preference for that small profile.











** Upgrading revisions.....
1. Some of the best combos that work well for me are the VMC 1/0 4X hook, rear hook optional, depends on your preference. As noted if the hook is too big and you are only using one, it may throw off the balance and swimming action of the plug.

2. In the video I mention Wolverine split rings. Am still using them, but have come to see that the Rosco #4h are a little bigger and impede the action less, probably a better choice.

Some of you may be upgradiing differently, or using different combos. These are just my preferences and what works best for me.

[DarkSkies]

Daiwa DSPM...the "15 S" Series, indicating suspending.....sometimes called the Daiwa Suspending minnow.....
Official name and sizes....(listed in red at the bottom of the chart)
http://www.daiwa.com/Lure/pop_ds_pro_minnow.aspx


In a nutshell, they are said to be similar to the DSPM, the "F" series, which are the floating ones that most refer to and buy from the shops....but are 1/8 oz more, and said to suspend.

This was developed in 2012, but is just now starting to be reviewed by anglers and surfcasters......and becoming available in local tackle shops...
Might be a good addition to your Fall and early Winter lineup....


Just wondering if anyone is using them now, or has additional comments for this thread..

Suspending comments,
different weight transfer..
How you feel they swim......etc
..thanks...

[finchaser]

The information above in post 39 is wrong the DB is a 3 3/4 inch 1/3 ounce or 4 3/4 inch 1/2 ounce plug made for fresh water it is not an SP minnow

The new SP sinking is a 6" long 1.25 ounce true SP minnow available in all the same colors as the SP minnow which is 6" long and 1 1/9 ounces the SP stands for Salt Water Pro. They will be available within the next few weeks a few select shops have them. I have one and it casts a little further and swims a little deeper


http://www.daiwa.com/Lure/pop_ds_pro_minnow.aspx

[buckethead]

Thank you finchaser have not tossed one yet but have seen one. Not hating on you Daiwa fanatics out there. Don't see what the big deal is for 1/8 ounce more. If you want a deep or suspending plug the bomber windcheater is a good choice for about 1/2 the cost. Also the storm saltwater one is pretty decent.

[finchaser]

I agree^^^ wouldn't buy the sinking and the small and large wincheaters in the green back are one of my favorites in the inlet and canal along with the shad rap x12 and x14 in ghost white

[J Barbosa]

Hope this helps with any Diawa minnow confusion.

Top - Diawa Salt Pro Minnow (DSPMF15) Weight: 1.11oz (1 1/9oz) Length: 6"

Middle - Diawa Salt Minnow (DSMF13) Weight: .66oz (2/3oz) Length: 5 1/4"

Bottom - Diawa Salt Minnow (DSMF11) Weight: .44oz (4/9oz) Length: 4 1/3"


http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3731/10061041654_59d910031c_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/94721242@N02/10061041654/)

[Monty]

I fished the SP Minnow a bit more this year.
When I needed a long cast it really shined.
Slow retrieve at night.
Caught more bass on the loaded 5 1/2" Redfin this year.

http://rocksimpson.com/images/2013_5_28_SB.jpg


Also used the Savage Prey Minnow, also casted great, swam deeper.

http://rocksimpson.com/images/2013_5_29_SB_Savage_Rod.jpg

[plugcrazy]

Awesome pics those are some really nice bass!

[plugcrazy]

Hope this helps with any Diawa minnow confusion.

Top - Diawa Salt Pro Minnow (DSPMF15) Weight: 1.11oz (1 1/9oz) Length: 6"

Middle - Diawa Salt Minnow (DSMF13) Weight: .66oz (2/3oz) Length: 5 1/4"

Bottom - Diawa Salt Minnow (DSMF11) Weight: .44oz (4/9oz) Length: 4 1/3"


http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3731/10061041654_59d910031c_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/94721242@N02/10061041654/)


dude you seem very organized by the quality of your posts and the highlighting. Are you an engineer by chance? Or a college professor?

[dogfish]

The thing that makes the sp so easy is it does all the work. You don't have to impart any action to it. With the older plugs there was a bit of finesse or twitching, or something else until you found out how the fish wanted it that night. The SP eliminates all the guesswork. Nacherlly all the up and coming anglers want to use it because it catches. monty I'm a loaded redfin fan myself. That's great for the whitebait we get in the bays. If I can't catch on that or bucktails I throw large.

[finchaser]

[
The thing that makes the sp so easy is it does all the work. You don't have to impart any action to it. With the older plugs there was a bit of finesse or twitching, or something else until you found out how the fish wanted it that night. The SP eliminates all the guesswork. Nacherlly all the up and coming anglers want to use it because it catches. monty I'm a loaded redfin fan myself. That's great for the whitebait we get in the bays. If I can't catch on that or bucktails I throw large.

So true even DARK catches fish on them

[ledhead36]

^^^^^ You guys shouldnt forget thzt he caught a lot of fish on clams and worms too back in the day. We used to dig for worms on every moon tide. He's a professional.:rolleyes::HappyWave:

[finchaser]

^^^^^ You guys shouldnt forget thzt he caught a lot of fish on clams and worms too back in the day. We used to dig for worms on every moon tide. He's a professional.:rolleyes::HappyWave:

Don't forget his bunkaaaaaa he was quite the master baiter as the story was told to me:ROFLMAO Even kept his sandwiches in the same cooler:upck:

[hookset]

pile on dark lol im in. Do you mean to say if there was a trophy for being a masterbater he would win?:laugh: :HappyWave:

[bababooey]

Hey I'm in too! I'll kick in $10 if someone wants to send him a masterbator trophy, priceless.

[J Barbosa]

dude you seem very organized by the quality of your posts and the highlighting. Are you an engineer by chance? Or a college professor?

No, lol.

I tend to dive into things and overdue it sometimes; everything has to be perfect. Some of my friends who know me well would define me as anal and paranoid. You should see me tie teasers....four hours later I have like three finished.

If it's worth doing, it's worth doing the right way. :plastered:

When I first met Dark and we were working together on a project I wanted to kill him (secretly). I'm trying to measure dry wall and he's yelling at me to hurry the #%?K up. :kooky:


I had two days in September where the twitch of the SP in the backwash was the key to triggering the strike. Also caught a few bass on the DSM right at the beach lip on calmer days with the color shown above.

[DarkSkies]

So true even DARK catches fish on them


Don't forget his bunkaaaaaa he was quite the master baiter as the story was told to me:ROFLMAO Even kept his sandwiches in the same cooler:upck:


pile on dark lol im in. Do you mean to say if there was a trophy for being a masterbater he would win?:laugh: :HappyWave:


Hey I'm in too! I'll kick in $10 if someone wants to send him a masterbator trophy, priceless.


I'm too busy to post for a few days and this is what I get....no respect....eff ya's all! :2flip: :moon:
Thanks for the laughs. :HappyWave:








When I first met Dark and we were working together on a project I wanted to kill him (secretly). I'm trying to measure dry wall and he's yelling at me to hurry the #%?K up. :kooky:


That's no surprise, JB. I'm sure there are others in the fishing world who have felt the same way as you do, such is life. :laugh:
We had a project to finish and a lot of the guys were standing around bsing about fishing and how it used to be. I was probably guilty of that too, and when we finally got some momentum I wanted to see most of it get done in one day. There were about 20 guys there, we finished Jim's basement right quick. :thumbsup:
Work with ya again anytime. :HappyWave:

[dogfish]

To stand around and talk about fishing, or work, the choice is clear to me.:fishing:

[dogfish]

I agree^^^ wouldn't buy the sinking and the small and large wincheaters in the green back are one of my favorites in the inlet and canal along with the shad rap x12 and x14 in ghost white



I threw the sinking minnow twice this year didn't see what the big deal was about them. Windcheaters are good in the canal here as well.

[J Barbosa]

Not that long ago Diawa went from the super cheap hooks to 2x VMC hooks.

To me this was very disappointing as I still have to throw these hooks away and replace with 4x.

Its sad that they can't follow the likes of Superstrike who after many years gave into their customers and started including 4x hooks.

[hookset]

Superstrike gets it. They listened to the feedback of their customers. You can toss those babies right out of the box and they swim well and won't lose fish. Diawa prob makes so much $$ from the SPs they dont care. They will make some changes but the bottom line is most smaller B&Ts sell the SPs quickly. With demand like that they don't have to try too hard for customer loyalty.

[J Barbosa]

Your right hookset...and lets not forget Diawa is a huge international corporation with many different product lines. Superstrike is still family owned and does one thing only and they do it well!

Diawa is also coming out with a new sp minnow called the bullet.

"The Daiwa Salt Pro (SP) Minnow Bullet is a new lure from Daiwa specifically designed for striper bass fishing in the North East. The SP Bullet evolved from the SP Minnow, a super popular epic fish catching lure. The SP Bullet is a slender 6" lure just like the SP Minnow but the SP Bullet does not have a lip. The SP Bullet is part needlefish and part darter. This brand new design from Daiwa sinks level and has a tight "S" style swimming action. These Bullets are rigged right and ready to fish with a heavy 1.4mm through wire construction and 2/0 VMC Hooks right out of the package. Daiwa gave the SP Bullet the same internal long cast weight system that gives the SP Minnow its phenomenal casting ability. Even in windy conditions, the SP Bullet will live up to its name casting like a bullet!

The SP Bullet will be available in two models and 10 great colors: Sinking Model weighs in at 1-1/2 oz and the Fast Sinking Model weighs in at 2-1/8 oz."

The 1-1/2oz version will retail at $15.95 and the 2-1/8oz version at $16.95.

18713

I asked a local Diawa rep if these VMC's were 4x and he said no 2x only for now. The other question is why they were doubling the price on these new plugs? The claim was because they had to make new molds...LOL So the old SP minnows didn't have to have molds made?

If you like the original SP Minnows I suggest you stock up now before they jack up the prices on them...its just a matter of time. Like every other affordable plug out there once they get a following the next thing these large corporations do is jack up the prices.

[cowherder]

The 1-1/2oz version will retail at $15.95 and the 2-1/8oz version at $16.95.

18713

I asked a local Diawa rep if these VMC's were 4x and he said no 2x only for now. The other question is why they were doubling the price on these new plugs? The claim was because they had to make new molds...LOL So the old SP minnows didn't have to have molds made?

If you like the original SP Minnows I suggest you stock up now before they jack up the prices on them...its just a matter of time. Like every other affordable plug out there once they get a following the next thing these large corporations do is jack up the prices.

That's crazy! Almost the price for wooden plugs! These companies need to understand most of us are middle class and have to smuggle these purchases past our wives a little at a time. When yozuri made the prices of the magdarters $24 I stopped buying them. Someone might argue with me but there is no one plug out there that works in all situations. If these new daiwas are $16 I will not buy them. Boycott!:2flip:

[DarkSkies]

Good points JB and cowherder....
At the beginning of the year, Monty and I had an agreement...he wanted to use name brand plugs more, and I wanted to use crappy beat up plugs (upgraded hooks and hardware) to see if there was a difference....we're still debating on that..:HappyWave:..but would welcome any other views.....





Something I recently posted about upgrading the SP, and other plastic plugs.........
I did this video a few years ago....first "how to video" I ever posted so there are some mistakes....but the necessary steps are there..for the new guys who want to upgrade their SPs or other plugs...remember that if you do... the balance of the plug is important as well....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4fqb9hr7L0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4fqb9hr7L0


Also threads on upgrading SPs and different plastic swimmer discussions (C&P to your browser if you can't click on the link}
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?8482-Review-Daiwa-DSP-and-DSM-Pros-and-Cons
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?8618-Plastic-swimmers-Differences-what-works-when

also JohnSkinner's video (he's much more polished than I am, and a good guy as well)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDIkj2cHnJQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDIkj2cHnJQ

[Monty]

Different rigging of SP Minnow, saw the video and will give them a shot this year.

http://rocksimpson.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/2015_SP_MOD6.jpg


Video from The Fisherman is here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1422579428&v=N0htBEfyQmU&x-yt-cl=85114404&feature=player_detailpage