Plastic swimmers: Differences, what works when

[Monty]

Thought maybe a thread on the differences in plastic plugs might be interesting.
Maybe a few examples/experiences.

For me:
Magdarters have been more productive in moving or turbulent water than other plastics (my most productive plastic).
Usually use a mixed retrieve, little rod tip action.

Loaded redfins (smaller size) have been more productive in calm water than any plastic, but also have produced in white water (bone color).

Used to use Javelins, they casted better than bombers and swam a bit deeper than bombers if I remember correctly.

I'm not big on Bombers, just never really enjoyed fishing them.

SP Minnow, have not fished it a lot, a couple Bass this year in moving water. Casts great.

Anyone have experience with Megabaits? Just picked up my first.

[finchaser]

Mega baits J110 are 5' and 7/8 ounce they cast great and catch fish even better down to my last 12

[DarkSkies]

Mega Bait and the Mambo Minnow were 2 of the favorites of the Old Farts Fishing Club (OFFC). They even considered calling themselves the Mambo Minnow fishing club, until I convinced them the OFFC name was cooler. :cool:

The thing thay makes some of these work, IMO, is the rattle some of them have, and the small profile.

Even though Fin says he is not a profile fisherman, :moon: :HappyWave: I'm gonna be the contrarian and say sometimes when the fish are scattered or picky, it really has mattered, to me. For example, these big bluefish at night that we are targeting. They do not seem to want to hit 7" plugs when the primary forage is small bait. 4-5" gets the most attention.


I still like bombers though I feel they have dropped in popularity. When I'm fishing rocks or inlet areas I always have it in my head that what I'm throwing might be donated to those rocks. A bomber is a lot cheaper to lose, and I still fish them religiously. If you look at them swimming in the water they have a good wiggle in current.

[DarkSkies]

When they work.....


The SP has been touted as a plug that will make the fish jump out of the water and land on the shore in front of ya.
I lot of guys are tellling me they now won't fish anything else.

I think that is somewhat short-sighted, though....
In rough water, for example, I have done much better with the Mag Darter in side by side comparisons.

I feel that in rough water, where the swell is big, the Mag darter is easier to keep in the strike zon for longer periods than the SP.

Of course, that's just my experience.
Guys who plug fast moving current like the Rips in NJ., or the Mass Canal, swear by the SP.
In those conditions I would agree, but not if the swell is bigger than 3', in my experience. (and the fish are scattered)....if there are a lot of fish around there are many things you can throw to them with success.

[DarkSkies]

Used to use Javelins, they casted better than bombers and swam a bit deeper than bombers if I remember correctly.




Are you talking about Javelins, or Mavericks?

If it's Javelins, Fin has a story he might want to share here. :) Ask him....

[storminsteve]

When they work.....


The SP has been touted as a plug that will make the fish jump out of the water and land on the shore in front of ya.
I lot of guys are tellling me they now won't fish anything else.

.

I hope you don't classify me as one of those, dark. I love the SP and have done well with it this year. As you said I don't think it works good in a pounding surf. I feel the magdarter is good, or any darter for that matter when the bunker are in.

Monty I use loaded redfins and loaded plugs a lot more when the sandeels are here.

[fishinmission78]

I like the older redfins. They are slim for when small bait is around. Great movement in the water. Good for when the fish are picky as well.

[jigfreak]

For me:
Magdarters have been more productive in moving or turbulent water than other plastics (my most productive plastic).
Usually use a mixed retrieve, little rod tip action.



Yes, that works. Also, I use megabaits around the end of the season. If the sandeels are thick I will throw the small rubber eels or avas. If not megabait is killer, toss it out and slow retrieve. end of day when the morning is colder is a good time.

[Monty]

Are you talking about Javelins, or Mavericks?
If it's Javelins, Fin has a story he might want to share here. :) Ask him....
Definitely Javelins, when I first started fishing in salty water I used them instead of bombers because they casted much further and could "feel" them better.
I life Fins stories, how bout it Finchaser?


I hope you don't classify me as one of those, dark. I love the SP and have done well with it this year. As you said I don't think it works good in a pounding surf. I feel the magdarter is good, or any darter for that matter when the bunker are in.
Monty I use loaded redfins and loaded plugs a lot more when the sandeels are here.
I noticed the Redfins produced a lot more for me in the fall/late fall last few years when the sand eels were around. I have also caught with them in the bay when small bait was around just after sun up when other plugs/metal/rubber did didlie.


Yes, that works. Also, I use megabaits around the end of the season. If the sandeels are thick I will throw the small rubber eels or avas. If not megabait is killer, toss it out and slow retrieve. end of day when the morning is colder is a good time.
I'm going to throw it a little this week.

[DarkSkies]

Definitely Javelins, when I first started fishing in salty water I used them instead of bombers because they casted much further and could "feel" them better.
I life Fins stories, how bout it Finchaser?



PM him and ask him to answer if he doesn't see this....the old grouchy basstid is grouchier than usual this week...I'm kinda feeling that way as well., until we start seeing more fish......:mad: :HappyWave:

[surfwalker]

Plastics-they're in the bag, used sometimes. Rebel 4" & 5 1/2", calm water, favorable breeze. Casted parallel to beach/in the trough. 7" Rebel sinker(or simulars), heavier action water and current, good sweeps. Bombers/Redfins- mostly calmer water, decent sweep. There's plenty of others, they are tried, but not overworked. The water activity will dictate their use, or not.

[Monty]

Anyone know who made/makes the top lure?
Caught a small bass with it earlier this week (and of course also missed one), can't remember where I got it from.
The bottom is a red fin.
http://www.rocksimpson.com/images/2012_10_9_plugs.jpg

[finchaser]

mambo minnow

[Monty]

mambo minnow
Thank you Finchaser, was my first time using a Mambo. They still made?.

[7deadlyplugs]

^ You can get them on ebay, guy. here you go. I like them and the mega-bait when the small bait is around. I think the mega baits are harder to get though.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Gags-Grabbers-5-Mambo-Minnow-Fishing-Lures-T-Js-TACKLE-NEW-/261046419934

[DarkSkies]

This is some advice I gave the other day.....







I was doing OK on the x-rap in the Winter when the herring were around. I found other plugs to be better when the fish were on top, but on nights where the swell was big and the surf was nasty with a fast duration, IMO something that stays on top is not really in the strike zone long enough to pass where the fish are.


On those nights, when a bottle plug or NB bottle darter didn't work, I always had an x-rap with me.....Sometimes I would have to throw that one plug for 1-2 hours, just blind casting, but it did pay off with mid teen to bigger fish.


The beginning of the mullet run, the mullet were smaller, and a better profile to match that has been the SP.


However, some of ya's may have noticed that while there are not a lot of mullet left, the ones left behind tend to be bigger...7" up to corncob size...














I would say if you are out in the next few days,,,bring that X-Rap plug with you.
It's something you have to believe in, as often it seems futile, casting and casting....but now that the migratory fish are starting to show up, this plug is a great choice in rough surf, or when you are fishing current and the fish do not seem to be feeding on top, or visible.


.

[Monty]

^ You can get them on ebay, guy. here you go. I like them and the mega-bait when the small bait is around. I think the mega baits are harder to get though.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Gags-Grabbers-5-Mambo-Minnow-Fishing-Lures-T-Js-TACKLE-NEW-/261046419934
Thanks 7DP, the Mambo saved me from the skunk today again.


I would say if you are out in the next few days,,,bring that X-Rap plug with you.
It's something you have to believe in, as often it seems futile, casting and casting....but now that the migratory fish are starting to show up, this plug is a great choice in rough surf, or when you are fishing current and the fish do not seem to be feeding on top, or visible.

That believing thing is not easy...(its like what came first, the chicken or the egg (believing in something without success)....not sure that's a good comparison). I threw one a little this past week and will continue to at the very least carry one.

[DarkSkies]

As the water gets colder this time of year, now is the time to downsize the size of the plugs you are throwing.....
Excellent suggestion for the mambo minnow...people.......

Others....although they are PITA to throw, the jointed swimmers can provoke a hit from a sluggish bass....and have saved me from many a night when they were the only thing that got results after hours of casting.......


These are some of the downsized swimmers a few friends are throwing....note the heavy duty split rings and upgraded hooks......

1586015861



Any other thoughts?

[surferman]

I gather from reading this that when the water is cold you want to downsize. What are some of the smallest sizes you guys have been throwing early spring?

[Monty]

I gather from reading this that when the water is cold you want to downsize. What are some of the smallest sizes you guys have been throwing early spring?
I'll start fishing in a week or two (as long as winter actually ends), these plastics will be in my surf bag.
Seems that the the first fish I catch each year are on teasers.

http://rocksimpson.com/images/2013_3_24_Plastic.jpg

[cowherder]

What is that one, the 2nd from the bottom? Thanks monty.

[finchaser]

Mambo minnow

[Monty]

What is that one, the 2nd from the bottom? Thanks monty.


Mambo minnow

My most productive plastic last year :)

[finchaser]

My most productive plastic last year :)

Better buy them up if you like them Al Gags doubled the wholesale price they are going to retail for about $20 bucks a piece

[storminsteve]

20 dollars that is insane they will never sell at that price. I know I won't buy any.

[baitstealer]

Wondering how you guys swim those mambo minnows? What retrieve works best

[finchaser]

super slow^^^ although they are not one of my favorite lures I prefer the Yozuri Crystal minnows which out fish and out cast the mamba

[Monty]

Wondering how you guys swim those mambo minnows? What retrieve works best

Last year was my first using them.
I fish them slow (like fin says), with an occasional twitch at times.
I read somewhere that described casting a mambo minnow is like casting a potato chip.

[Monty]

Anyone fish plastic swimmers without tail hooks?

[buckethead]

Anyone fish plastic swimmers without tail hooks?

Monty I fish them that way when bluefish are there standard naked siwash. No sense in letting the bluefish tear those nice tails up. Have also found that at times when the bass are finicky the tails will prompt them to hit more. It depends on when and what I am fishing for.

[Monty]

Monty I fish them that way when bluefish are there standard naked siwash. No sense in letting the bluefish tear those nice tails up. Have also found that at times when the bass are finicky the tails will prompt them to hit more. It depends on when and what I am fishing for.
Thanks Buckethead, I have not fished them without a treble.
How about with nothing at all on the rear?

[buckethead]

If you do that you want to make sure it's balanced and doesn't affect the action. Try swimming it in clear water, try changing hooks, etc, until you get it right. Another thing don't upsize the treble too big when you do that it could affect the action as well

[Monty]

Lost a SP Minnow that I liked a lot and ended up using the Savage Prey Minnow that caught the bass below.
It seems to swims deeper than the SP.
Casts just as good. Cost was $12.00 each, cost $2.00 more than the SP.

SP Minnow in middle of two Savage Prey Minnows.

http://rocksimpson.com/images/2013_5_29_SP_Savage.jpg


http://rocksimpson.com/images/2013_5_29_SB_Savage.jpg

[surfstix1963]

Rapala sub-walk.Once mastered it is deadly. Just a thought.

[storminsteve]

^^ What do you mean by that surfstix? Can you please elaborate? thanks

[surfstix1963]

Once you master fishing the plug it is deadly due to the sub surface action the plug has.

[storminsteve]

thanks surfstix!
Obi-wan-kenobi.:thumbsup: :HappyWave:

[DarkSkies]

Small and skinny bait is a good idea to use a small and skinny something or other to throw at the fish.
When the mullet and bunker are big and thick I start useing bigger stuff.


Most of the Bass I have caught this August have been on the 5 1/2" loaded Red Fin.
Very Skinny

Very good points, guys. :thumbsup:




The SP vs the SM......for Fall Fishing....
First introduced to the public in Mid 2008 (Finchaser and friends were testing them in 2007)

Many of the threads out there have been about the SPs.....some like them because they are longer, a little heavier. You can get more distance from them and punch them out better if it's windy.

This video where I review and upgrade the Daiwa, is actually the DSM, the smaller one.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4fqb9hr7L0

Have had a lot of success with that one with fish to the low 20# range.

To recap....
DSM, or SM:
4 1/3 to 5 1/4" long, weighing 4/9 to 2/3 oz...13F series said to be the most popular

DSP. or SP:
6" long, and approx 1 1/4 oz...15F series said to be the most popular

However, for most of the year, when smaller bait is around, I'm partial to the Daiwa SM, or DSM as some refer to them.
I'm upgrading the hooks and split rings, so that's no problem should I run into a bigger fish.
What I like the best about it, is the small profile.....

Realistically, many baitfish in the back bays at this time are 2-4"....hence my preference for that small profile.

[DarkSkies]

I just bought 7 Redfins, and 5 more Bombers, I'm going to load a few Redfins, and Bombers.

Vpass and the other guys make a great point here.....it doesn't have to be a Daiwa.

For me the focus this time of year in the back bay, late summer fishing for bass, blues, and other predators, is to fish something smaller that more closely resembles what they are feeding on.....Any small, skinny plug that you can get out there and work effectively given the weather conditions, should produce, The key is to have confidence in what you're throwing.

[basshunter]

x2 on the small plugs this time of year. When its windy they are a pita to throw. As long as it is calm it's all good. I like the mirrolures and the glass minnows I think they are like 3" long they are perfect size.

[Monty]

Anyone ever fish the wooden plugs that are similar in profile to these plastics, like the Greenpoints or a Gary2?
If so is there a big difference between them?

[buckethead]

I have fished G2s and greenpoints, they aren't bad. They swim a little higher in the the water column than theb plastic swimmers. Great to throw when the mullet start pouring out.

[fishinmission78]

Maybe its just my preference but I like small plastic swimmers for the back bays and sedges. When I throw wood its usually in the surf. My .02

[DarkSkies]

Something I recently posted. The OP was asking about different plugs that were, and weren't working, this time of year.....
There was some feedback that the only thing working was the SP....




1. Hey - I had a couple of needles in the bag. Should've tried them. Last year they were deadly for me, but sand eels were running then.


2. Any one been catching fish on bottle plugs? I'm curious to learn how to use them.


3. Any one finding the fish hard to hook lately?





Not much time today but I'll try for some quick answers....

1. Needles..and stubby needlefish....should be tried every time out in the fall, whether there are sandeels or not....there are usually lots of needlefish/gar around..and fish will often key in on them...
Many surfcasters have difficulty with them because most productive retrieve is often painfully slow....and many don't have the patience to fish them that way....the first time you get a fish on a needle and feel the explosive action you will be hooked..


2. Bottle plugs.... SS, Polaris, etc....I like to fish them best in current or rough water.....fished slowly as well. The bottle plug is deadly this time of year, but you have to know the water you're fishing in and look for current..


3. Taps instead of hits....there are times when the fish are feeding on small bait...and the hit on a bigger plug is reactionary or defensive rather than aggressive.....


I was having a blast this summer...catching medium to larger bluefish that were feeding on tiny shrimp....until August...blues up to 8# in the back bays that would not hit a small plug, bucktail or rubber...the only way to attract these scattered fish was to aggressively work the popper across the flats...triggering a reactionary strike..
Often the fish would be hooked in the head or the back....as they were not really in the mood to hit bigger things when the forage was so small...I have often found bluefish at night to be pickier than bass...and don't understand the logic of guys who say they will hit anything...even a bare hook....not so true in summer months when they are picky......


**My point is that different things work for different situations and when different forage is around...the waters we all fish can be different...
and
time of night,
water temperature... and
tide stage can also factor in different levels of aggressiveness...

[DarkSkies]

Maybe its just my preference but I like small plastic swimmers for the back bays and sedges. When I throw wood its usually in the surf. My .02

Good point fishinmission, I agree...Finchaser has said many times that elephants eat peanuts....
One of the best surfcasters I know got a 50lb bass in a river at night in 2008 throwing a loaded redfin....:wow:

[Rip-Plugger]

I have found that in the late fall the fish are smaller and more of them,they are very willing to hit but, they will hit only smaller lures.
with lower water temps during that time the fish slow down and lure speed has to as well.
I have done very well with small wood lures and plastic,i only throw plastic plugs during this time.
laser eyes,zig-zags,x-raps,windcheaters ect.
every so often you get a good surprise,a very nice fish takes the small stuff and it makes you smile.


18985189861898718988
some Bob Hahns and mine.
killers during the late fall.