Stripers are in TROUBLE

[finchaser]

Maryland officials have released information on the 2012 Young of the Year count for striped bass, and it is very bad. This LINK (http://news.maryland.gov/dnr/2012/10/16/down-year-for-striped-bass-reproduction)will take you to the full report on the MD DNR website.


MD officials blame the poor results on weather, and they say that there are normal ups and downs in the process. However if you look at the graph that appears in the link, and study the statistics a bit, you will see that spawning success over the last 5 to 10 years is about half of what it was during the 1990s before the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission allowed the commercial catch to return to levels reached prior to the crash of the 70s.


As spawning success declines, we are still fishing at levels assigned back in the 1990s - levels most of us thought were far too high back then. Clearly we have greatly reduced the size of the striped bass spawning stock biomass from levels reached in the early 2000s. The exact relationship between spawning stock biomass - combined weight of all large breeding stripers in the population - and young of the year production is not fully understood, but it is undoubtedly important over a number of seasons.


One thing is clear, and that is that just as the 2003 year class has made up most of our striped bass fishery over the last 6 or 7 years, we have only the 2011 year class to follow that up, which won't be i and legal under current size limits for another 7 years or so. Up until about 2006 we always had a number of good year classes in the pipeline. This is no longer the case.



Whether the striped bass population crashes in the near term or not, it is a safe bet that the current managment philosophy of reducing the commercial and recreational bag limits only when it is already too late will insure that the quality of recreational fishing will suffer.


Brad Burns, President

[jonthepain]

no shock there

wtg fisheries "management."

knuckleheads.

[surfwalker]

Regardless of the explanations the authorities give for the lowest indice ever of the Striped Bass, (weather/comms/recs), it definetly does not bode well for future stocks. This low indice should not be blown off as common, but should be looked at as a warning. I would think that any backed up recommendations would (should) be addressed by the law makers and that the 2012 indice is not to be accepted as just normal. The "We'll see what happens attitude" may be too late.

[vpass]

I figured with the mild winter that there would be a better survival ratio. I guess wrong. We did have less precipitation then what is normal that might be the reason why it was real bad,:huh: but it doesn’t help that the breeding stock is in bad shape I hope it not the breeding stock problem. If it is we are about to see a collapse of striped bass population.:scared:

[basshunter]

Regardless of the explanations the authorities give for the lowest indice ever of the Striped Bass, (weather/comms/recs), it definetly does not bode well for future stocks. This low indice should not be blown off as common, but should be looked at as a warning. I would think that any backed up recommendations would (should) be addressed by the law makers and that the 2012 indice is not to be accepted as just normal. The "We'll see what happens attitude" may be too late.


There are a lot of groups out there that say the bass are in the best shape ever surfwalker. Groups like the jcaa jersey coast anglers association. I think the law makers might be listening to them.

[finchaser]

JCAA is the main cause of the waste of this resource. Law makers were going to act to save the bass at an emergency meeting when Tom Fote from the JCAA made a comment that there are more bass than ever so instead of taking action they listened to that assh_le and delayed any action.This gave the commercials a chance to regroup and instead of protecting the breeders from the snag and drop group they are increasing netting and leaving the recreational sector as is. The JCAA never even contacted the clubs for there .02 like they are suppose to, they just let Fote play god as he did with the bunker when he voted with Virginia to stop certain closures. The JCAA's only interest is there fluke tournament.

[DarkSkies]

I am more than a little more worried....here's why.....


1. the YOY numbers declared as fantastic last year may have been a high number, cause for celebration. But people are losing sight of the fact that it will take around 8 years for those fish to reach maturity.


2. in the meantime, I have seen a decline in other year classes in my own personal logs and catches.


3. I have also noticed a decline in average sizes in tournaments,,,,,take the LBI fall classic, look at the results for the last 5 years, and then make your own assessments. I did, and it seemed to me the average size of the fish in the catches of the top guys were declining.


4. There are a lot of groups out there publically declaring that stripers are in the best shape since they have been since they came back. I feel this is simply not true, but with these groups, who claim to have a whole lot of background angling support in these statements (but do not)......making these claims, it's hard to separate where the truth actually lies.


5. When gov't officials hear about how "great" the biomass of striped bass is doing, it becomes easier for them to listen to lobbyists for commercial guys convince them they should be allowed to keep striped bass bycatch.

I have stated this before on here.
In the past this has caused wars, and I'm not trying to do this, just have an intelligent adult discussion....


6. Something to think about....
When you let commercials keep a "limited" amount of bycatch as a way of being more "reasonable" so fish don't have to be thrown back dead,,,


,,guess what......that "limit" becomes mysteriously filled every day, because the Capt then has the incentive and permission to keep that limit....












just some thoughts....good discussion here....Fin....as always, Thanks for noticing these things, and trying to raise awareness.....:thumbsup:

[surfstix1963]

Welcome to the 80's I think it is even worse this time around.Just my opinion I have been out of the loop for awhile.

[finchaser]

Welcome to the 80's I think it is even worse this time around.Just my opinion I have been out of the loop for awhile.

Yep it's coming to a much quicker end by clueless people with big ego's. i really didn't think it would happen again in my lifetime. For many it will be devastating. Dark will at least will still have his swans

[storminsteve]

Yep it's coming to a much quicker end by clueless people with big ego's. i really didn't think it would happen again in my lifetime.

Is there anything that can be done about it or to make it so it doesn't happen?

[buckethead]

Regardless of the explanations the authorities give for the lowest indice ever of the Striped Bass, (weather/comms/recs), it definetly does not bode well for future stocks. This low indice should not be blown off as common, but should be looked at as a warning. I would think that any backed up recommendations would (should) be addressed by the law makers and that the 2012 indice is not to be accepted as just normal. The "We'll see what happens attitude" may be too late.

Agreed.

[cowherder]

JCAA is the main cause of the waste of this resource. Law makers were going to act to save the bass at an emergency meeting when Tom Fote from the JCAA made a comment that there are more bass than ever so instead of taking action they listened to that assh_le and delayed any action.This gave the commercials a chance to regroup and instead of protecting the breeders from the snag and drop group they are increasing netting and leaving the recreational sector as is. The JCAA never even contacted the clubs for there .02 like they are suppose to, they just let Fote play god as he did with the bunker when he voted with Virginia to stop certain closures. The JCAA's only interest is there fluke tournament.

Do they elect their leaders or just appoint them? If elected, how did a guy like that ever get elected? Isn't he supposed to represent all the fishermen in that group?

[finchaser]

When we started the JCAA back in the 80's and met in the Spring Lake Library meeting room we elected a spokes person and before they opened their mouth to the public they took a vote from all the clubs and spoke on behalf of the majority. God only knows what they do now, seems like they do what they please.

[hookset]

Regardless of the explanations the authorities give for the lowest indice ever of the Striped Bass, (weather/comms/recs), it definetly does not bode well for future stocks. This low indice should not be blown off as common, but should be looked at as a warning. I would think that any backed up recommendations would (should) be addressed by the law makers and that the 2012 indice is not to be accepted as just normal. The "We'll see what happens attitude" may be too late.


Besides the bass are here now. It is epic fishing. The only thing folks are missing out on calculating is that there are very few small bass, and very few of the largest.The 25 lb bass seem to be the new cows. There are big gaps in the younger and older year classes. doesn't matter because the run is on.:rolleyes:

[hookset]

JCAA is the main cause of the waste of this resource. Law makers were going to act to save the bass at an emergency meeting when Tom Fote from the JCAA made a comment that there are more bass than ever so instead of taking action they listened to that assh_le and delayed any action.This gave the commercials a chance to regroup and instead of protecting the breeders from the snag and drop group they are increasing netting and leaving the recreational sector as is. The JCAA never even contacted the clubs for there .02 like they are suppose to, they just let Fote play god as he did with the bunker when he voted with Virginia to stop certain closures. The JCAA's only interest is there fluke tournament.


When we started the JCAA back in the 80's and met in the Spring Lake Library meeting room we elected a spokes person and before they opened their mouth to the public they took a vote from all the clubs and spoke on behalf of the majority. God only knows what they do now, seems like they do what they please.


Pretty dangerous to let one guy have all that power. Flashbacks to Hitler, Mussolini, Khomeni, or present day to Obama and Lubchenko. Sorry to group Lubchenko in with the guys but I have seen pics of her and she looks butch enough to pass for a man in a barber shop. Never a good idea to give one person that much decision making ability. Where are the checks and balances?

[plugcrazy]

Where are the checks and balances?

We gave up checks and balances when nobama appointed lubchenko. I dont know Tom Fote but imo someone should slap him upside the head so he gets out of that fog he is in. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely. finchaser I read some of the things you old farts, as dark labels you, did before and after the moratorium. thank you for all the hard work. It must be disappointing to look at it now and see that cluelessness and lack of comittment.

[DarkSkies]

This is another one of those threads designed to provoke, and cause folks to examine the way they are thinking. :learn:
I know some have gone out publically in the last year, and declared them to be as healthy as they have ever been.



"They are in great shape!"

"Look at the strong Spring and Fall showings along the East Coast!"

"The 2011 YOY survey showed one of the best populations in recent years!"

"There is no problem at ALL with the stiped bass population. They are extremely healthy and the numbers are strong"

"No need to worry about them. The 2011 YOY Stats are fantastic. They are an indication of many great years ahead"

[DarkSkies]

How many times have you heard one of the statements above, or some variation thereof?
Whenever any reasonable discussion is attempted about this, there is usually the same range of excuses.......



"The Commercial netters off NC and VA are doing it........it's all their fault!"

"It's those damn poachers, they are killing all the small fish!"

"Especially the ______________(insert ethnic origin here) poachers at the inlets and piers, they are the worst!" :devil:


"If we only had more bunker, we would have more bass. We must save the bunker!!!

"It's not us, it's the guys in ____________(insert state here) !!!.. Did you see all those videos of all the fish they kill?"

"It's those guys who fish for them in the EEZ. They are the biggest part of the problem!"

[DarkSkies]

Here is a compelling video shot by Surfcasters Journal.......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc8bCOOfFs4&feature=youtu.be


To me, the statements made by these gentlemen are clear as day....we have been saying here that we've noticed a decline in our striped bass catches in the last 8 years,in the numbers that some of us are catching......with the most notable decline within the last 3 years.

The combined total of experience of these 4 respected voices in the field, is over 150 years of fishing experience......Crazy Alberto, Donny Musso, Vito Orlando, and Bill Wetzel..........

Some of these guys fish every day, twice a day, as do some of our Veteran members here.........and many others who have been fishing for more than a few years, and seen the decline and moratorium of 1982.........



They are all saying the same thing.....as you have seen in many of the posts here in the past......













These are guys who fish on the front lines, in the middle of the striped bass migration highway....
How could all these reputable individuals be lying? :huh:

[DarkSkies]

This is just a paraphrase of what Bill Wetzel is saying........


**I agree with it all, as I have seen it, and every year have to try to explain to guys who are new to the sport, why the fishing they are saying is "Epic" at Montauk is but a mere shadow of what it was, just 7 short years ago




Bill Wetzel.....
"There are thousands of sandeels at Montauk in the Spring, thousands of them......
Fluke blitzing on them, all over, but not one bass.....
This is a common occurrence......
A smorgasbord of fluke, sandeels, bait...but no bass........

This summer, there was tons of bait on the North and South shore, no small bass on them....
Some blame the water temps....F*** that! I take the water temps every time I go out, and it was not the temperature...

I'm out there all the time, 40 hours a week, and I know what I see....If striped bass are so healthy how come they haven't expanded their range?
Guides in Maine are quitting there are so few bass there they can't make a living from them...

Last year fishing at Montauk was terrible...this year we got some nice fish, true, but where were all the smaller bass? ..7 years ago it was a no brainer to catch numbers at Montauk"

[DarkSkies]

I'll try to come back and address some of the points I made, when I get a chance......

There are dozens of theads on here that pertain to this......

In the meantime, I would ask you folks who are reading this......








1. If the striped bass population is so healthy, can you prove it for us with your own personal stats and sharing your logs?

2. If the striped bass population is in such great shape, how could all of the guys in the video, and those of us here, be lying? Is it one great big PETA conspiracy or do we have some understanding that there is a problem out there?

3. What is your understanding of the problem? What do you forsee happening, and what would you change for it not to happen?


Thanks people......:HappyWave:

[cowherder]

Thats one of the things that I can remember you writing over and over dark, the thing about montauk being the migration highway. If they are saying it is getting bad there maybe someone should listen. I don't have as much experience in fishing as a lot of you. I did not know a lot when I came here. My biggest fish came from clams. I still fish them when the water is cold. I have been lucky enough to get in on some blitzes and got some nice fish with lures. looking at all my best catches it seems that the nights of epic fishing weren't that many. We really should try to do something before it's too late like crazy alberto said.
Maybe we could put the limit at 1 at 28". I think that would go a long way to keeping them from being wiped out.

[dogfish]

Wetzel is spot on about what is happening in Maine. The stocks there have been on the drop for around 5 years. Maine is perfect summer habitat for bass, lots of lobstah and other crunchy meals. The numbers are down, doesn't make sense. Only explanation that fits is there are less of them.

[storminsteve]

Maybe we could put the limit at 1 at 28". I think that would go a long way to keeping them from being wiped out.

I would definitely be on board with that. And all the boat guys taking their limits with bonus tags. If you only fish a few times a year by all means load up the cooler. When the fishing is good you do tend to see the same yahoos over and over on different web sites fist pumping and getting limits every day. Guys like that should show some self-restraint. Maybe take bass one or 2 times a week instead of loading up on meat every single time. Just my 2 cents of course.

[hookset]

I agree 1 at 28" would go a long way to getitng this fishery back on the rails. The biggest problem I see as you said steve is that a lof of they folks who fish for bass are meatmen. They don't care what is happening to the stocks. As long ads they go home with full coolers its a good day. Try telling these guys the stocks are down and they will throw some expletives at you, and maybe a fillet knife or 2. They don't get it and never will.

How do you incorporate the desires of that group into what you are proposing? You don't. These selfish pigs won't be happy till the bass are all gone and the only ones left are the ones from the 2011 year class which will be small for a long time.

[Monty]

I would like to see one bass at 36". If not that One at 28".
No bonus tag.
I used to get the Fisherman magazine but got tired of seeing all the pics of dead bass.

Common sense is that with so many people fishing for striped bass and killing so many breeders and with the commercials legally and illegally killing bass the striped bass population is under severe pressure.
Anyone who can't see this has there head so far up their *ss that its amazing they can breathe. Or they just don't care.

[BassBuddah]

I don't what it takes if people watch that video and still don't understand. Mecca is the place where all the fish have to touch near as they move north or south. Fluke blitzing on sand eels. Do people understand how off that is. There should be a few dozen bigger bass eating at the same time when this happens. According to Wetzel, no. I agree 100%.

[jigfreak]

15 years ago a lot of guys were fishing for fluke and sea bass. Those fisheries got restricted with higher minimums. Same with the winter flounder. This put more pressure on the bass. Why spend $60 to go on a head boat and get 2 small fish, or maybe catch 2-3 legal fluke, when you can go for bass and fill your cooler with some slobs. Every year that the noose on the other fish gets tighter more fish for striped bass. Half of these guys have never fished for bass before. They go out on blitzing fish, catch 2 30lb bass, do the mental calculations, and then all of a suddern they are bass fishermen Same as the guys snagging and dropping bunker on the beach. It is a pissing contest to see who can weigh the biggest one for the club tourneys. No one gives a damn about the bass. Let the next generation worry about it.

[albiealert]

This is just a paraphrase of what Bill Wetzel is saying........


Bill Wetzel.....
"There are thousands of sandeels at Montauk in the Spring, thousands of them......
Fluke blitzing on them, all over, but not one bass.....
This is a common occurrence......
A smorgasbord of fluke, sandeels, bait...but no bass........

This summer, there was tons of bait on the North and South shore, no small bass on them....
Some blame the water temps....F*** that! I take the water temps every time I go out, and it was not the temperature...

I'm out there all the time, 40 hours a week, and I know what I see....If striped bass are so healthy how come they haven't expanded their range?
Guides in Maine are quitting there are so few bass there they can't make a living from them...

Last year fishing at Montauk was terrible...this year we got some nice fish, true, but where were all the smaller bass? ..7 years ago it was a no brainer to catch numbers at Montauk"

I have to agree with this too. Every year in May we have sandeels by the hundreds of thousands that come into the Sound. Around the end of April you will see blitzes within eyesight. What are under them? Fluke and giant schools of porgies. Very few bass.
I do catch bass in the rivers but it seems like 10 years ago there were a lot more 15 lb fish. Now there are not many of those, and most of my catches are under sized stripers. I read that the 15 lb bass are the best breeding size. I don't believe they breed when they are under 26". So where I am fishing I am seeing less of the breeders. I don't know if other folks have different experiences but that is what I am seeing. My .02.

[surfstix1963]

I know you like to go over everything with a fine tooth comb which is great that's what this forum is here for on this one I'll give you my opinion although I haven't been out in 4 years it's OVER, the fat lady has sung.This is the 80's all over and I don't care who disagrees with me on this I've been through it once in my lifetime been there done that and I have been preaching it ever since then,I'm not getting too deep into this the fish are done AGAIN!!! you can't expect recreational and commercial fishing together not to wipe out a species that will take close to a decade to recover.Many have preached this will happen even more never listened.

[surfwalker]

I couldn’t let this thread pass, without some comment. My feelings haven’t changed from any of the other threads on this topic. So, I’ll just make a few statements.

First off, educate yourself about the YOY indice and how it affects the stock of the Bass. Learn about the life cycle of the Bass, what’s it’s up against, from egg till reproduction age. The pollution, the predators, everything that’s involved in order to keep the species thriving.

Change the variables that we can. The pollution/predators are there. But the limits of which we can keep, the sizes, the poaching, the disrespect for the Bass and many other factors can be controlled. It would make a difference.

I don’t like what I see in the past years. The pressure is tremendous, all along the Striper coast. Ignore the warnings and you will not like the results. Some steps are needed now.

[DarkSkies]

I couldn’t let this thread pass, without some comment. My feelings haven’t changed from any of the other threads on this topic. So, I’ll just make a few statements.

1. First off, educate yourself about the YOY indice and how it affects the stock of the Bass.
Learn about the life cycle of the Bass, what’s it’s up against, from egg till reproduction age. The pollution, the predators, everything that’s involved in order to keep the species thriving.

2. Change the variables that we can. The pollution/predators are there.

3. But the limits of which we can keep, the sizes, the poaching, the disrespect for the Bass and many other factors can be controlled. It would make a difference.

4. I don’t like what I see in the past years. The pressure is tremendous, all along the Striper coast.

5. Ignore the warnings and you will not like the results. Some steps are needed now.


These are simple truths, to those of us who pay attention, Surfwalker.

A There are those who point to the 2011 YOY and say it forecasts a robust fishery down the road. They are not taking into account that it will take 8 years for those bass to be a viable part of the resource.

B. There are those who say "If only we can save the bunker the bass will come back!" :huh:
This was proven to be false this spring and early summer. At times 20 miles of our NJ beaches were filled with bunker as far as you could see.....and there were hardly any bass under them.





The most dangerous thing about some of the folks making the pronouncements of the Striper fishery as being robust, is that very few of them fish regularly....their material comes from old research....and that is the flaw in the logic....what is happening right now,....is more likely to be talked about by folks who are fishing now, and fishing regularly....food for thought...thanks for the perspective, Surfwalker.....:thumbsup: :HappyWave:

[seamonkey]

Even in oregon inlet they are noticing it




FISHING REPORT 12/20/12
by AARON





Aside from the sarcasm, this does ring true. Stripers just are not as prevalent as they were just a few years ago. Here is a nice rock we landed livebaiting the other morning with Richard. He was not scared to go. Last year he pulled a 50 out with me!


http://www.oregon-inlet.com/journal/article.cfm?article_id=3224

[DarkSkies]

I may be using some of these posts to raise awareness. Feel free to add to this thread or C&P when trying to raise awareness elsewhere. :HappyWave:

[rockhopper]

Thank you guys for the outlook. Montauk used to be so easy to get big stripers deep in the dark. Now its like one a week. Not good.