Obama after Sandy Hook Elementary: "we must change"

[jonthepain]

We can’t tolerate this anymore. These tragedies must end. And to end them, we must change.
...

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e248/jonthepain/obamatear_zps47845556.jpg

If there’s even one step we can take to save another child or another parent or another town from the grief that’s visited Tucson and Aurora and Oak Creek and Newtown and communities from Columbine to Blacksburg before that, then surely we have an obligation to try.

In the coming weeks, I’ll use whatever power this office holds...

Are we really prepared to say that we’re powerless in the face of such carnage, that the politics are too hard?

Are we prepared to say that such violence visited on our children year after year after year is somehow the price of our freedom?



Wow the media is really going crazy with new gun control hysteria.

I stopped in my two local gun dealer's stores and dropped off some NCPHA cards today.

They were packed full of customers. I could hardly get in. One had an on-duty cop sitting in his squad car across the street, watching.

What do you think Obama will try first? An executive order banning Bushmasters? All AR-style rifles? Multi-capacity magazines?

How about a large federal surcharge on ammo, say a buck a round?

Where will it stop? Great Britain forced all citizens to turn in their firearms, can Obama do that to us?

I sense a big change coming. He's already moved us away from our Founder's vision for our great country, towards socialism.

Now with the political capital he's banked, along with the international outcry over our "rabid gun-crazed society" (have you read some of the foreign press?), will he use this tragedy to "fundamentally transform America?"

[finchaser]

He's a useless piece of sh_t I want to :upck:every time I hear or see him. I still can't believe after how he has ruined this great country assho_les reelected him.

The kid was mentally ill and used his mothers guns to kill her and the other which in it self is a tragedy. IMO this was caused by an irresponsible parent not storing theses weapons in a secure place like a gun safe. Big brother will only keep guns out of law biding citizens hands not criminals as illegal gun trade will always exist. His main reason is to probably protect his as_ and leave the US unprotected from his Muslim buddies.

OK DS ban me from the site I don't care

[Monty]

[QUOTE=jonthepain;64140] An executive order banning Bushmasters? All AR-style rifles? Multi-capacity magazines?

QUOTE]

I'm not a "gun" person. What is the draw back of eliminating the sale of automatic or multi capacity magazines/guns? Making it illegal to have them?

[vpass]

What do you think Obama will try first? An executive order banning Bushmasters? All AR-style rifles? Multi-capacity magazines?

How about a large federal surcharge on ammo, say a buck a round?

Where will it stop? Great Britain forced all citizens to turn in their firearms, can Obama do that to us?

I sense a big change coming. He's already moved us away from our Founder's vision for our great country, towards socialism.

Now with the political capital he's banked, along with the international outcry over our "rabid gun-crazed society" (have you read some of the foreign press?), will he use this tragedy to "fundamentally transform America?"

I sense a big change also. I feel that they will be banning all AR-style rifles, and large stock piles of AMMO. The Taxes on new purchases will be insane.


Big brother will only keep guns out of law biding citizens hands not criminals as illegal gun trade will always exist. His main reason is to probably protect his as_ and leave the US unprotected from his Muslim buddies.



I heard the only reason the Japanese didn't invade the Main land was because all the crazy americans were heavly armed.





I'm not a "gun" person. What is the draw back of eliminating the sale of automatic or multi capacity magazines/guns? Making it illegal to have them?

I'm not a gun person either. I had thought about getting a hand gun. my father did own a rifle for hunting. I do believe in the 2nd admendment. I also believe if any of the adults that were murdered were carrying a gun it might of been a different situtation there might of been fewer deaths.

Criminals will always find another way. Taking guns away might make things worse. We need to protect ourself, and not depend on the govement/local police. The goverment is definitly looking for a reason to take our right away.

[surfstix1963]

Another 4 years of A$$holism,if people protected their guns and kept them properly locked up children wouldn't get their hands on them and do things like this.If it were a knife are they going to take away our steak knives I don't own a gun either but I don't knock anyone that has them either.Quite honestly if my family was being threatened I would not hesitate to take you out any way possible and not feel a damn bit guilty about it.

[finchaser]

Another 4 years of A$$holism,if people protected their guns and kept them properly locked up children wouldn't get their hands on them and do things like this.If it were a knife are they going to take away our steak knives I don't own a gun either but I don't knock anyone that has them either.Quite honestly if my family was being threatened I would not hesitate to take you out any way possible and not feel a damn bit guilty about it.

For the record I am not a gun person either and agree with SS about protecting the family

[Monty]

I have also thought about getting a gun to protect my family. The past 5 years I have given it serious thought and may still try to legally get one. If I had a gun and someone was breaking into my house I would blast away. And maybe (hopefully) hit him.
But I just do not see the reason for these semi-automatic guns with 30 or so bullets in them that can be shot in less than 1/2 a minute.
So many extremes in this country, No guns vs the right for any type of gun. There is a reasonable middle.
Also on being allowed to purchase a gun, people bitching about having to wait a certain period of time for background checks. From what I have heard the last few days there are lots of people who just don't give a **** who has a gun as long as they can buy one when ever they want one. And people bitching about regulation.
That mortgage deregulation a few years ago didn't show how good we can handle non-regulated things that need to be regulated.
There are some things that need to be regulated, not going crazy here, but in my opinion I do not think the gun used in these killings should be available to citizens in this country. Yes it was a deranged monster who did this, got his hands on guns his mother should have had locked up. But she more than likely purchased that gun legally. Does anyone know if this gun used in these killings would have been legal before the assault weapons ban expired? Yes guns don't kill people, people do. Some people should not be near guns. And some guns that can cause mass killings like this should not be available....If so for what?
This country has veered off track. Greed, I don't give a **** about you as long as I'm happy this second attitude.
Somethings (MANY) have to change or I fear things will continue to worsen. I think there are going to be a lot more screwed up young adults the next few years with mental problems and the sense of entitlement, things don't look good.

[DarkSkies]

1.Where will it stop? Great Britain forced all citizens to turn in their firearms, can Obama do that to us?

2. I sense a big change coming. He's already moved us away from our Founder's vision for our great country, towards socialism.

3. Now with the political capital he's banked, along with the international outcry over our "rabid gun-crazed society" (have you read some of the foreign press?), will he use this tragedy to "fundamentally transform America?"




I don't own guns Jon, but as some others have mentioned here, it's a fundamental right guaranteed by the Constitution.....

Every day I think about the recent Sandy Hook tragedy......I'm the kind of person, these things really get to me.....I get into great detail thinking not only about the poor children who will never get a chance to grow up, but also about the families, and the lifelong effect this will have on them.

I have some folks I know who have lost a child or loved one at an early age, and that loss has been something which some never recover from....the pain is deep, the hurt is great....and even the passage of time doesn't help in some cases....:(

[DarkSkies]

On the other hand...I saw first hand how things quickly turned to lawnessness during the hurricane.....
There were neighborhoods where the police couldn't get to, and looting was rampant......

As recently as 2 weeks ago, one of Fin's friends was stopped and interrogated in his boat because he was moving it from one place to another....but during the storm, and for many weeks after, looters ran wild over many neighborhoods at night.......

We saw a few signs where the homeowners advertised they were inside, and armed.....
I wish everyone had the chance to see that.......

I think somewhere along the way, someone will make the argument for banning automatic assault rifles.....
But as Jon sad, where do you go from there?

Do you ban 9mm handguns?
Because no matter what...the criminals will still be able to buy them.......

I, as a homeowner, still want the option to buy a 9mm handgun, if I want to, to defend my family......

[DarkSkies]

OK DS ban me from the site I don't care

Can't ban ya for expressing your legally protected rights to free speech.....it's in the Constitution, ya know....:)
I would ban someone from attacking others in a malicious or libelous way, and I have.....
You haven't even come close to breaching those parameters.....yet....... (Although your grouchy rants are legendary...) :HappyWave:






IMO if only the criminals and police can own them...the crimes will become more unspeakable....

There was a case I read about a year or so ago,,,,,
It may be on here, don't have time to search...






A guy and his girlfriend were brutally robbed, beaten, and she was raped while they made him watch......
although that was an extreme case, you never know when you could be in that situation....I'm certain this guy and his girlfriend never imagined they could be in such a situation either......






I agree with what you and others said Fin.....
To take away our ability to protect ourselves, from the animals who masquerade as people....is wrong, and against the Constitution.....

If you do a search, you will find there are some towns in the South (Texas has one of them, I believe)

Where there is a very high % of gun ownership...and less crime than in other areas......in those areas folks are permitted to shoot to kill....and when you are threatening someone's life or liberty, or the safety of their family.....I believe you deserve to be shot...


Again, these are just my thoughts,,,,,
But with all the animals out there....there is no way the Gov't is going to protect me from every possible circumstance... getting rid of all guns will just make us less safe as individuals....
I therefore feel we have a right to arm ourselves, should that time ever happen when we are placed in grave danger as explained above. :learn:

[Monty]

I therefore feel we have a right to arm ourselves, should that time ever happen when we are placed in grave danger as explained above. :learn:

Totally agree, 110%.

I don't understand the statement,

I think somewhere along the way, someone will make the argument for banning automatic assault rifles.....
But as Jon sad, where do you go from there?

You ban the automatic assault rifles. You don't ban the pistols and hunting guns. You ban the guns that really do not have a place in society. In a civilized country.

[jonthepain]

well put, Rich.

and btw, automatic weapons have been unlawful for civilians to own since the 1934 National Firearms Act.

[Monty]

well put, Rich.

and btw, automatic weapons have been unlawful for civilians to own since the 1934 National Firearms Act.

I meant semi-automatic guns like the one used in the killings. Guns that can unload lots of bullets in a short time.

[hookset]

The fallout is already being felt - from yahoo.com


At the same time, private equity company Cerberus Capital Management reported that it's selling off its entire investment (http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/cerberus-to-sell-gunmaker-freedom-group/) in Bushmaster and returning any profit made to investors. Cerberus bought Bushmaster in 2006, then merged it with additional gun companies to create Freedom Group, which reported net sales of $677 million for the first nine months of 2012, up $112 million from 2011. In a statement, Cerberus said, "It is not our role to take positions, or attempt to shape or influence the gun control policy debate. That is the job of our federal and state legislators. There are, however, actions that we as a firm can take."
****'s Sporting Goods (DKS (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=DKS&ql=0)) -- which boasts 500 stores in 44 states -- has, for now, removed display of all guns nearest (http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/18/justice/connecticut-*****-guns/index.html?hpt=hp_t1) its Newtown store and also ceased the sale of modern sporting rifles in all stores. In a statement on its Web site (http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/home/index.jsp), ****'s says, "Out of respect for the victims and their families, during this time of national mourning we have removed all guns from sale and from display in our store nearest to Newtown and suspended the sale of modern sporting rifles in all of our stores chainwide."
Interestingly, some reports say sales of guns have increased following the shooting, likely at least in part because consumers fear stricter gun laws could limit their access. While the hard sales numbers are not yet available, dealers across the country (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/17/gun-sales-brisk-connecticut-shooting/1775707/) are reporting a heavy increase over the past few days. One Florida gun store employee told Yahoo! Finance said that, in his store this past Monday, they grossed $40,000, while, "on a typical weekday, we strive to gross $10,000."

\At the same time, gun stocks, following a quick initial surge after the news of the shooting first hit, have fallen hard this week (http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-stock-sell-off-2012-12); Smith & Wesson (SWHC (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=SWHC&ql=1)) has been down as much as 10% on Tuesday. Both Smith & Wesson and Sturm, Ruger & Company (RGR) had already dipped (http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/gun-stocks-money-making-machines-buy-dip-says-153832236.html) in the days before the shooting, following a surge that has till left Smith & Wesson with up 92% year-to-date. Ruger is up 28%.
Early business reaction has not been limited to the world of gun retailers. The business of media has also taken note. On Friday, a Pittsburgh red-carpet premiere for Tom Cruise's $50,000,000 Paramount Pictures vehicle "Jack Reacher," in which he plays an investigator tracking a sniper, was put on hold "out of respect for the families." The Discovery Channel has also canceled its reality series "American Guns (http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/american-guns)," which follows a Colorado family that works in the firearms business. This comes after Facebook users rushed the show's site (http://www.facebook.com/pages/American-Guns/179782072108711) and called for its ouster in the wake of the shootings. The show is currently out of production but has run for two seasons and 26 episodes, and has been popular with audiences. According to reports, the season two premiere had a 50% increase over the first season debut.
The videogame industry is another that could be affected following the Sandy Hook tragedy, as fingers point toward the often violent games' effect on the psyche of American youth (Lanza was apparently a fan of the wildly popular, military-themed "Call of Duty"). These early reactions could lead to long-term changes in the business world, or we could go back to "business as usual" before long. This remains to be seen as this far-reaching, fast-moving story continues to unfold

[jonthepain]

When the '94 gun ban came into place, and then expired 10 years later, there was an excellent opportunity to study the effects on gun control and assault weapons on society - the ATF and GAO found absolutely no change in crime rates or mass shooting rates.

The Columbine shooting happened in the middle of the "assault weapons" ban.

[Monty]

If the Bushmaster that was used in these killings was purchased legally, which seems to be what happened, if there was a ban on assault weapons the likely hood of this piece of *hit having a semi-automatic like this weapon would have been reduced.

When the Constitution was written (Second Amendment specifically) there were not weapons imaginable such as these "assault weapons".

Civilized:Showing evidence of moral and intellectual advancement; humane, ethical, and reasonable.

We live in a country with so many different types of people, so many different opinions, people with all types of issues, stress levels, moral and immoral, mentally stable and unstable. In my opinion these types of assault weapons have no place in a civilized country such as ours. They need to become unavailable and made illegal to be owned. Just my opinion (First Amendment).

[jonthepain]

If the Bushmaster that was used in these killings was purchased legally, which seems to be what happened, if there was a ban on assault weapons the likely hood of this piece of *hit having a semi-automatic like this weapon would have been reduced.

well, unfortunately, when these weapons WERE banned, it had no effect whatsoever, according to statistics and the ATF and GAO studies.

Again, in the middle of the ban, Columbine.

In Norway, on July 22, 2011, Anders Behring Breivik killed 69 kids and adults at a youth camp, and injured another 110, with legally obtained firearms

Norway has much stricter gun laws than here.

What kind of an assault weapon did Martin Berns or Timothy McVeigh use? Oh yeah, a bomb.

McVeigh used fertilizer to kill 168 people, including 19 children under the age of 6, and injured 680 people.

[finchaser]

Hopefully like everything else NObama does it will be a failure.

[DarkSkies]

Monty thanks for the clarification....
I meant to say semi-automatic.....

And Jon, you are right on with your posts....folks need to be aware that we have had these incidents all throughout the world.
That being said, I think there will be a push to ban the semi automatics.....

But where do you stop?
You could make an argument for banning 9mm Glock type pistols as well....and I really feel people should be able to buy those types for self defense.
The way criminals are nowadays, if someone is coming at you to kill, and they're armed with a 9mm,,,,shouldn't you have the option of being armed with a 9mm as well?

I have very little knowledge of guns, so I appreciate the feedback from those who do....
My concern would be protecting my family from the animals out there....and there are some very sick people who I classify as animals....one shot is not enough for these freaks....you need to put multiple holes in them to make sure they are stopped from coming after you.......

Again, my deepest sympathies to all the victims in the world...
But my experience with crime, is that the police often get there after the fact...when it is happening you have every right as a citizen to protect your life....



Good discussion people, thanks for your opinions. :thumbsup:

[buckethead]

The videogame industry is another that could be affected following the Sandy Hook tragedy, as fingers point toward the often violent games' effect on the psyche of American youth (Lanza was apparently a fan of the wildly popular, military-themed "Call of Duty"). These early reactions could lead to long-term changes in the business world, or we could go back to "business as usual" before long. This remains to be seen as this far-reaching, fast-moving story continues to unfold


If you want to talk about the violent video games you also need to lump the rap music in there. Are there any parents out there today paying attention to the rap their kids listen to? All about ******* and hoes. They glorify gun violence, selling drugs, and violence against women. I don't understand how those monkeys can get away with it. They are all about glamorizing violence to get paid. What happens when some impressionable kids act like they do in the videos and start thinking the thug lifestyle is the way to live?

[bababooey]

I agree buckethead. Gangsters and hoes what does that say for how these people view the rest of society. There is a certain segment that feels it is their duty to get over on the man, collecting welfare, running drugs, etc. Bad morals have led to a breakdown in society. Regulating gun access will not solve that or make the killings any less likely to happen. Bad guys will always find a way to get a gun.

[voyager35]

If you do a search, you will find there are some towns in the South (Texas has one of them, I believe)

Where there is a very high % of gun ownership...and less crime than in other areas......in those areas folks are permitted to shoot to kill....and when you are threatening someone's life or liberty, or the safety of their family.....I believe you deserve to be shot...


Again, these are just my thoughts,,,,,
But with all the animals out there....there is no way the Gov't is going to protect me from every possible circumstance... getting rid of all guns will just make us less safe as individuals....
I therefore feel we have a right to arm ourselves, should that time ever happen when we are placed in grave danger as explained above. :learn:








"We need to be here to protect our children rather than 5 or 6 minutes away"
Armed school in Texas - I like it.


http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/texas-school-guardian-plan-allows-teachers-guns-174238129.html

Texas school’s ‘Guardian Plan’ allows teachers to have guns

By Mike Krumboltz, Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/author/mike-krumboltz-20110327/)
Mike Krumboltz









In 2007, a school district in Harrold, Texas, made a controversial decision (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/29/us/29texas.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0). It allowed teachers to carry concealed weapons on school grounds to protect students against potential shooters.

[Related: Scenes from Newtown, Connecticut (http://news.yahoo.com/photos/scenes-from-newtown-connecticut-slideshow/sandy-hook-photo--1360285455.html)]
Now, in the wake of the Sandy Hook Elementary attack in Newtown, Conn., that left 28 dead including 20 children and the gunman, the school district's methods are getting a closer look. In a report from CBS Dallas Fort Worth, superintendent David Thweatt says the district's "Guardian Plan" is a way of taking charge in the chaos of a potential shooting. Teachers are the true first responders, Thweatt says. "We need to be here to protect our children. Not four, five minutes or six minutes from now."

[Related: Will Obama use executive action on gun control? (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/obama-executive-action-guns-145033715.html)]
In an interview with Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/18/stop-school-shootings-by-letting-teachers-fire-back-say-texas-officials/#ixzz2FQHGTnXb), Thweatt said, "As educators, we don't have to be police officers and learn about Miranda rights and related procedures. We just have to be accurate."
Thweatt isn't sure his plan would have stopped the Newtown massacre; however, he contends that "active shooters go where there is no one there to resist. The Guardian Plan addresses that fact."

[Related: School nurse hid for four hours after Connecticut shooting (http://news.yahoo.com/school-nurse-hid-4-hours-conn-shooting-124121911.html)]
Of course, many favor stricter gun control (http://news.yahoo.com/video/abc-president-obama-pledges-action-080000517.html) rather than arming teachers in the wake of Newtown. Several pro-NRA Democratic senators have come out in favor of gun control legislation, and MSNBC host Joe Scarborough (http://tv.yahoo.com/news/joe-scarborough-flips-gun-control-newtown-shootings-155706138.html), a longtime advocate for gun rights, recently reversed his stance when it comes to guns and the gun lobby. "Friday changed everything. It must change everything," Scarborough said. "We all must begin anew and demand that Washington's old way of doing business is no longer acceptable."

[jonthepain]

What happens when some impressionable kids act like they do in the videos and start thinking the thug lifestyle is the way to live?

They end up in and out of prison. Learning how to do more of the same and networking with like minded individuals.

I know; I used to be a corrections officer.

[clamchucker]

The videogame industry is another that could be affected following the Sandy Hook tragedy, as fingers point toward the often violent games' effect on the psyche of American youth (Lanza was apparently a fan of the wildly popular, military-themed "Call of Duty"). These early reactions could lead to long-term changes in the business world, or we could go back to "business as usual" before long. This remains to be seen as this far-reaching, fast-moving story continues to unfold

I agree with this hookset. I recently got my daughter in law mad at me because I had a chance to view the video games that my grandchildren were playing. One of them is called grand theft auto, I think. It is extremely violent. People are killed callously and it seems like a very bloody game. I feel these games are affecting the morality of our youth. They are very impressionable at that age.

[speedy]

hey don`t get me started like fin said the kid was ill but there should not be guns and head problems in the same house .. IMO !!!!!!

IT WAS VERY SAD WHAT HAPPENED VERY SAD !!

[jonthepain]

interesting article about the assault weapons ban by a liberal:

http://kontradictions.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/why-not-renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-well-ill-tell-you/