NJ Access Lost Due to Fisherman Selfishness and Bad Behavior.

[clamchucker]

Two many examples of selfishness and bad behavior lately. Thought I would start a listing of all the places we lost or are in danger of losing.

St. Alfonso's: Most everybody knows the story, that access is now restricted there. This is because some joker tried to take a dump in the rectory's bathroom, and then gave a priest a hard time when confronted about it. Why would anybody in their right mind want to give those priests a hard time? :kooky:

Now they have security guards during peak periods, and a very bad opinion of us fishermen.

[wish4fish]

pullman Ave. some ****** was cleaning fish there, left garbage in front of peoples house. no parking signs everywhere, and everyday they're giving tickets to anyone who comes in to fish. azzholes have to ruin it for everyone.:burn:

[bababooey]

Lake Takanassee. It was closed anyway due to development. Fishermen were able to park in the lot till the other day/ Now there's a fence there.

Last week we were there fishing, things were a little crazy with the bunker. Kayaker comes up to the beach from out in the water.There is no room for him to get back to land, and fishermen wouldn't move for him. He starts yelling for people to let him back to shore, words exchanged with a fisherman.

As soon as he beaches, fisherman kicks hit kayak. Kayak dude immediately goes over to the guy with paddle in UFC stance, we figured it was gonna be a brawl. Kayaker started talking about how he would have us all towed from the lot. Fisherman told him to eff himself.

Finally some reasonable older dude intervened, no fight, they talked it out.

The fisherman, a guy I know from the jetties, didn't know the kayaker was one of the owners. We were all crazy after those bass, that's all that mattered. So I'm just saying that you never know who you might meet on the beach. There was no way to know he was the nephew of one of the owners. He had more rights to that space than we did. Sometimes we should be a little more careful. Don't know if that's what closed the access. Could just be a coincidence because now they are doing the construction. But it probably didn't help to have that kayaker disrespected like that.:kooky:

[bababooey]

Found this on another site. Made sense.


Yet part of the problem is some people, some of who are members here, don't see themselves as part of the problem. Kinda like the people who change their baby's diaper on the boardwalk in full view of others, then drop it on the ground because they are too lazy to walk it the extra 10 feet to the trash. http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/images/smilies/graemlins/upck.gif

Then, God forbid you should say something to them, they look at you like you have 3 heads.http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/images/smilies/kooky.gif We are becoming a society where people feel entitled to walk on or be inconsiderate of others. It's ok because Mommy and Daddy set the example, no apologies ever necessary.

If it weren't SOL'ers to blame, there wouldn't be this graffiti at Roosevelt. There for 2 yrs now, someone obviously felt it was time to speak out about the inconsiderate antics of some of us.

What a self indulgent bunch some of us are here. http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/images/smilies/graemlins/argue.gif It's ok to burn spots here, publicize that fishing is great at the power plant, so many dozen extra guys rush to fish there. Not a problem because no people live there? I still see it as a problem, maybe that's just the way I was brought up.

Many want to blame the Spanish and all the other hard-working immigrants, when a good part of the blame lies with the good old white guys.

If it weren't SOL'ers to blame, curl wouldn't have caught one of the SOL'ers at the "L" cutting up fish on the boards every night, and leaving the carcasses under there to pizz off the rich people, some of who just don't like fishermen anyway. Curl is too discreet to publicize this doooooshe's name. You know curl doesn't post much, but if he has to speak up, it's serious.

I don't blame these homeowners. The amount of disrespect I have seen this year is the worst ever. If I lived there I would be on the horn every day to the Mayor, asking that it be shut down. These people don't pay thousands in taxes just to have us come and pizz on our lawn.

Many members here go above and beyond, bringing other's trash home, scooping up human poop, etc. But how many of us are good at ranting on the internet, and then not being a good example for the whole group of fishermen? http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/images/smilies/headscratch.gif

Lake Tak may have been scheduled to be fenced, but there was an incident last Tue with someone in the owners' family that was typical of the disregard we have for others when we are fishing. More on another site, you can read it there Ship.

"I have met the enemy, and it is us"

How many of us will learn from this, and try to be better citizens instead of blaming others? Guy comes on here complaining about fishing etiquette, and a long-standing troll here calls him a sissy.

Takes a real man to call someone a sissy on the internet when you weigh about 130 and stand 5'3" tall, and make excuses for not showing your face at SOL gatherings.http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/images/icons/icon14.gif

Bravo for SOL, head and shoulders above everyone else. http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/images/smilies/graemlins/clapping.gif

Yep, you can keep telling yourselves that, or speak up when the babbling idiots and troublemakers sound off, and try to conduct your/ourselves better so that we are better examples.

One of the biggest interest groups out there, yet we are one of the most dysfunctional. I don't think that will ever change. Rants on the internet definitely won't do it.
Attached Imageshttp://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=143029&stc=1&d=1214502194 http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=143030&stc=1&d=1214502194 http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=143031&stc=1&d=1214502194 http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=143032&stc=1&d=1214502194

__________________

[wish4fish]

ha ha geeks and losers, lol.:laugh: been to that site, summa my friends members there. some cool threads, but too much whining about VS better than zeebass, i'm a better fishermen than you, whine whine, brign me the waambulance! :argue: not geeks and losers, more like whiners and losers.:laugh:

[clamchucker]

Lake Takanassee. It was closed anyway due to development. Fishermen were able to park in the lot till the other day/ Now there's a fence there.



That situation has changed as of Friday. Access is now open.

[bunkerjoe4]

ha ha geeks and losers, lol.:laugh: been to that site, summa my friends members there. some cool threads, but too much whining about VS better than zeebass, i'm a better fishermen than you, whine whine, brign me the waambulance! :argue: not geeks and losers, more like whiners and losers.:laugh:


Hey folks, I don't mind some of you cut and pasting comments from other boards if it's relevant to the discussion. It's a free country.

However, I would like to keep negative comments against other boards to a minimum here. Each board out there is run by a hard-working guy who believes in what he does, and is trying to raise awareness for all of us. :clapping: As such, they are not responsible for the negative actions of a few members.

Again, you may cut and paste comments from other boards where they SPECIFICALLY relate to the discussion, and are NOT copyrighted materials, please. Otherwise, please keep any personal attacks to yourself. Thanks, bunkerjoe.

[fishlipper]

That situation has changed as of Friday. Access is now open.

Clamchucker, I think that has changed, gates are now closed. Time to get on the horn with the mayor's office on Monday.

(But, after that incident bababooey mentioned with the kayaker relative of the owners, I'm not surprised people have a bad attitude toward fishermen.) Some of us just don't care about the consequences. :don't know why:


this came from another site:

Get the Tak fence down - Make those calls to Long Branch!
Prove to the mayors office that we're serious about keeping our fishing access and PARKING FOR THAT ACCESS 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

Be sure to mention #7 in the CAFRA agreement dated march 8 2008, and point out that it specifically uses the words PRIOR to construction.

Call the mayors office NOW, right now

Mayor Adam Schneider
732-222-7000, ext. 5270
or
732-222-8800

http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=143225&d=1214584340
http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=143224&d=1214584340

[bababooey]

Public access restored at former beach club site
Mayor: Fence on Tak. property aimed to protect historic structures
BY CHRISTINE VARNO Staff Writer
Local fishermen have their beach access restored at the Takanassee oceanfront site in Long Branch after being denied entry at the fishing "hot spot" by a newly erected fence.
http://atlanticville.gmnews.com/news/2008/0703/front_page/002p1_lg.jpg (javascript:openimage('002p1_xlg.jpg',551,1024))PH OTOS BY ERIC SUCAR staff The newly erected fence at the former Takanassee Beach Club site on the Long Branch oceanfront. After putting up a fence along the former Takanassee Beach Club property last week, the owner of the site has agreed to keep the gate open to permit fishermen access to the oceanfront, according to Mayor Adam Schneider.
"The gate is open now and it was open all weekend," Schneider said Monday.
The fence was erected last week after the owner received a permit from the city to fence in the property to protect three historic structures that stand on the former beach club property, according to Schneider.
"[The owner of the property] is looking for a solution to provide access while protecting the buildings," Schneider said. "I don't know that you can do both.
"If you surround the buildings with fences, do you have enough access to allow people to the beach?" he added.

http://atlanticville.gmnews.com/news/2008/0703/front_page/002p2_lg.jpg (javascript:openimage('002p2_xlg.jpg',666,1024))Th e fence at Takanassee that the fishermen are saying blocks their beach access. Activists and environmentalists, along with Councilman Brian Unger, were seeking last week that public beach access be restored at the Takanassee oceanfront site after learning that a fence was erected at the site.
In an e-mail sent to the state Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) on Friday, Unger informed the agency that a fence has been erected on the former Takanassee Beach Club property, blocking beach access for fishermen.
Unger is claiming that the fence is violating the terms and conditions listed in the Coastal Area Facilities Review Act (CAFRA) permit granted to developer Takanassee Developers LLC for a project that calls for 19 homes to be constructed at the site of the former beach club.
"It's clear in the DEP permit that prior to and during construction at the site, public access to the beach has to be provided," Unger said.

According to Unger, under the "Terms and Conditions, Physical Conditions" section of the permit, it states that five public access parking spaces must be provided prior and during construction, and access for parking cannot be impeded during construction of the project.

http://atlanticville.gmnews.com/news/2008/0703/front_page/002p3_lg.jpg (javascript:openimage('002p3_xlg.jpg',630,1024))Th e fence erected at the Takanassee site. It additionally states that construction of the project shall not impair the ability of local fishermen and others from gaining access to the Atlantic Ocean.
In the e-mail, Unger wrote, "I therefore respectfully request that your unit take appropriate steps to remedy this situation."
Isaac Chera, principal in Takanassee Developers, was issued a CAFRA permit from the DEP on Feb. 28 to construct five single-family homes, eight condominium units and six townhouses on the 4.8-acre site on Ocean Avenue where three original Life Saving stations stand.

With the approval come some 30 conditions the developer must adhere to in order to move forward with the project, including preserving the historic Life Saving buildings.

Late Friday afternoon, Unger spoke with DEP officials and said, "I believe DEP enforcement is trying to come up with an interim solution that includes continuous beach access and protects and secures the historic structures, but also does not put an unreasonable burden on the developer."

The preservation of the historic structures on the site is the primary reason Chera erected the fence on the property, according to Schneider.

"[Chera] got a fence permit from the city to protect the buildings from being vandalized," Schneider said. "He said he was having vandalism problems and his insurance carrier had issues with the site being so open.

"His insurance carrier said that if he wants to be insured, he has to protect the buildings," Schneider said, adding, "There are issues about the buildings being preserved."

Chera could not be reached for comment by deadline Tuesday.
Schneider explained that the CAFRA permit does require that Chera provide public access to the beach, but people are questioning when the conditions of the permit are to be enforced.
Schneider said that it is his understanding that the permit is to be enforced once constructions starts and to be continued upon completion of the project.

"He does not have an obligation to provide public access there now," Schneider said. "I don't think that the permit applies yet.
"Once he builds the project, he must provide public access," he said, adding, "If he chooses not to build, he doesn't have to provide public access."

Schneider has spoken about the issue with the city's assistant director of planning and zoning, Carl Turner.

"Carl doesn't know how Mr. Chera can be responsible to provide access during construction," Schneider said.

"Once he is done [with the project], there are very stringent rules that he must provide access.

"If DEP has required access now, then he has to provide access now," Schneider said, adding, "I don't think they did. [The city] has nothing that says Isaac is required to provide public access now."
Schneider explained that Chera is open for suggestions as to how he can provide public access while protecting the historic structures on the site.

"If somebody can come up with a good way to do it and protect the buildings, I am sure [Chera] would consider it," Schneider said.
Unger suggested that a form of security could be enforced at the site to allow for public access, while protecting the structures.
"We have urged them to protect the structures," Unger said. "I think they have a watchman on the property.

"We need access from sunup to sundown," Unger said, adding, "They can do that by locking the gate and then provide security personnel."

[fishinmission78]

I think there is a security guy there on weekends, green suv, won't let u park in the lot, but you can walk through to fish. In the end I think access will be closed at all the spots we used to know.http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.gif

[BassBuddah]

You guys should see the royal screwing we are getting in LI. I will post the story, come on over and check it out. Really sucks.:burn:

[stormchaser]

I came here to post, saw BB beat me to it. But I'll ask again anyway. If any of you guys fish NY as well, please tune in to this other thread, we are losing access. Even if you don't live in NY, would appreciate some of you calling the # and putting her on the spot by voicing your complaint, in a respectful manner. Thanks for any help you can give us, let us know if we can make phone calls to help with the NJ access. :thumbsup:

http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=990

[cowherder]

We should all try to do think a little more. saw a guy the other day come out and take a leak right in the open. Go in the water, or find a spot in some weeds somewhere (away from the houses). Never know when someone is looking and may judge all fishermen by what you do.

[nitestrikes]

He should put a fence on either side of the path. It will close access to what he wants, yet leave access to the beach for us diehard fisherman.

[DarkSkies]

Anyone who fishes OC is aware of a few "hotspots". Go there a few times and people will say "Oh you should fish

1.***
2. ***
3*** , that's where the fish are."

The problem with that is it concentrates people in one area, and the logic is flawed. :don't know why:

Those who spend time scouting at low tide can find at least 30 good holes between PP and IBSP. Following all the other fishermen based on rumors and conversations about catches isn't always the smartest strategy.

In the case of Mantoloking, it backfired, and we fishermen will now have to pay the price.

Fin let me know that there are spots in Mantoloking where "no trespassing on the dunes" signs are now posted. The police are seriously enforcing this, as either a new ordinance was recently passed, or they are concentrating on an old one.

Either way, we fishermen will suffer because of this. 4 tickets have been given out already to fishermen, and the police are very aggressive in ticketing. Allegedly, no warnings are given, only tickets.

I know that access walkways and ramps were ripped up there by the storm, so people have been making their own paths, just like they have been doing all the way to IBSP.

I was told that the Mayor heard enough complaints from residents unhappy about fishermen tresspassing through their properties and disregarding private property boundaries. They went to the police and demanded they do a better job.

Meanwhile, we as fishermen were thoughtless. Several guys phoned complaints in to me of fishermen acting like pigs on the beach with the trash from bait, coffee cups, and other fishing garbage. The residents had enough, and now they struck back.

Please tell your friends to be careful if down there. This is not a Public Trust Doctrine issue, as beach access is not being denied.

We brought this on ourselves, guys and girls. Let's try to be a little more considerate out there. :learn:

[plugaholic]

That is becoming a big issue. If you want to fish an area show respect to the owners. I have this one place I fish, which over the years I got to know the owners. When I first started going there I happened to see the owner outside. I introduced myself and after about 15 minutes I asked it it was ok for me to access the beach from his land. He was so grateful and impressed that I asked. He told me that a lot of fisherman couldn't care less. They leave their trash all over the place and pee on the lawn.

If we want to continue fishing and having easy access we need to be respectful of others property.

Good manners goes a long way in the fishing world.

[DarkSkies]

Here's a copy of that letter. If you think about it, it's a pretty decent thing for the police to do by putting warning letters on cars. They are giving tickets as well, but as I understand it they're looking less to harass fishermen, and more to protect the rights of homeowners.

That's good news, they're doing their job. The rights of homeowners who have their property trespassed on should be enforced.

I bumped into George from the Mantoloking homeowners association the other week, and had a short conversation with him. He seemed a pretty decent guy, and was actually concerned with the fishermen having enough access. :thumbsup:

He talked of rebuilding a stairway on a particular street we were on. He had some reservations about if they rebuilt it, would the winter storms tear it down again. My suggestion was to leave it until the spring. I don't like to see money wasted, even it it's not mine. IMO they are very pro-active about preserving fishermen access, and should be commended for that. :clapping:

I know we have Constitutional access granted by the Public Trust. However, moving forward on these issues, I've learned there are a lot of underhanded things towns can do to take access away, all perfectly legal.

So let's try to get the word out to respect the properties in this area. If you see anyone littering or acting like an idiot, say something to them, or call the police and report the vehicle plate #.

It only takes a few bad apples to ruin it for us all. In the case of the Mantoloking Homeowners assoc, it seems they are more than willing to meet the fishermen halfway. We should try to show them the same courtesy. :learn:

8538

[finchaser]

From another site




Pebble Beach...you know those signs?
Well today I met a nice young man working for the Fish and Game. As I walked on to the road we met and he asked, "Is this your car?" It wasn't mine because I don't park on the street I walk there. But he asked if I had permission to fish there and I didn't have any such permission. The officer told me that the signs that say "No Trespassing" that are posted all along the one side of the street are real and he can issue anyone there walking out from the water with rod or gun a $135 ticket for "trespassing to hunt or fish". He was told by his supervisor that the other day there were 20 cars on the street and lets face it they were fishing. Since there is only one house that faces the bay and it wasn't a party they knew. So from now on the officer will be there to issue tickets

[Pebbles]

What ever happened to the Public Trust Doctrine? How could they possibly issue a ticket? Who ownes the land and how come they do not have to provide access?

A couple years ago there a major blitz going on. Dark and I were right in thick of it. It was one of the best fishing days I ever had. Now I can't even go there. :burn:

[surfstix1963]

Thats a common problem in NY they buy the houses and think they own the beach especially in the Hamptons.Access is becoming such a problem w/ all the separate town permits you need,4 WD permits if you drive the beaches which are closed half the season and now a fishing license it is becoming quite expensive.If this keeps up I might just go back to party boat fishing I love the sport but I'm increasingly getting more annoyed every year.

[DarkSkies]

If I thought it was warranted I would organize a "Public Trust/ Public Access" protest down there. An important point to make is that this access is not public, it's private. I believe the access trails and the land are owned by JCP&L. The town is enforcing no tresspasssing on private property. There are still ways to fish that water per the Public Trust Doctrine. If you fish it you understand. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon3.gif I'm not about to give internet lurkers those suggestions here.

I have to agree with the town on this one. The sad thing is that place has become a fishermen's toilet. In a way, I think we're all partly responsible for it being restricted, and I don't blame the way things went down.

Trash, beer bottles, people pizzing on the street and overfilling the one trash can they set out. Why would people not have the sense to realize that when the can, or any trash can is overstuffed for that matter, perhaps it would be a good idea to bring some trash home with you? :don't know why:

Here's a thread someone started last year about this.
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=5031
I didn't comment on it at the time because I reached out to a source down there I know. He said "at that time" they were still allowing access and weren't giving tickets for trespassing. They just didn't want people parking near the signs.

The fact they're now writing tickets suggests to me the townspeople and JCP&L finally had enough with the littering and disrespect that went on for years there. There was also an allegation someone got hurt back there and is suing them.

These types of things ruin it for us all, people. I stopped fishing there regularly because of the fisherman traffic, and years ago predicted this would happen. There are other areas that hold as many fish if you're willing to do the research.

What lessons can we learn from this? What can you do?
1. We as fishermen are our own worst enemies sometimes.

2. Fishermen are some of the most generous people out there, but there are those among us who are also very selfish and uncaring.

3. We can't change that, but we can change how we react to their behavior.

4. Threads like this are ok to bring the topic into public awareness. We should still have these discussions.

5. Beyond that, I see so many people ranting about it on the internet, I have to ask myself if these people have the same motivation to rant at the guys who are littering, when it's happening. :don't know why:

6. I'm not talking about getting into fights with people. However, when you see something like this happening, get involved, open your mouth, show your disapproval.
Too many of us are content to let it happen, get upset, and rant about it later. The time to address the problem is exactly when it's happening. We have evolved into a society where there's no shame for our actions. People choose to evade resonsibility. There's nothing wrong with shaming someone into picking up their garbage, or trying to educate people with carefully assertive word choices. (notice I said "assertive" and not "aggressive") :thumbsup:
If that doesn't work, call the police on them. Be willing to document the behavior with license plates and physical descriptions of the violators.

7. There are also cleanups that can be organized, and many fishermen groups get involved in these. :clapping:
We need more support for them. The next time you read about one of these, why not get involved, and lend a hand? :learn:

[striperhunter]

I agree with dark when I'm bait fishing I usally walk the beach picking up other peoples trash. what does it take to put it in garabge pail.:rolleyes:

[finchaser]

I agree with dark when I'm bait fishing I usally walk the beach picking up other peoples trash. what does it take to put it in garabge pail.:rolleyes:

class and caring

[porgy75]

I have only been down to pebble beach twice. Both times it was destroyed with trash.

[Frankiesurf]

Sounds like a beach clean-up (with permission, of course) is in order. This may get those who fish there a little sway with the locals.

Just a thought.

The Public Trust Doctrine is fine, if you are already on the beach. You have to LEGALLY get to the beach for it to work though.

[DarkSkies]

I agree with dark when I'm bait fishing I usally walk the beach picking up other peoples trash. what does it take to put it in garabge pail.:rolleyes:

Good answer. :thumbsup: I didn't get a chance to say "hi" yet, Striperhunter. Welcome aboard! :HappyWave:

[DarkSkies]

I agree with dark when I'm bait fishing I usally walk the beach picking up other peoples trash. what does it take to put it in garabge pail.:rolleyes:


class and caring


I wanted to recognize Striperhunter as one of the small % of guys who are committed to the Future of Fishing......:thumbsup:

I wish somehow behavior like this, could be infections......http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon3.png

If the Actions of guys like this, could only ignite a small spark, we fishermen would not be losing all the access we have lost in the last 5 years....
Food for thought......:learn:

[DarkSkies]

There was a continuation of an ongoing NJ access problem last night.
As a result, surf fishermen now lost more access, and may not get it back.
I got this first hand report from a younger angler who was there and witnessed it with his own eyes.


Confirmed independently through several sources in my network.

[DarkSkies]

The person telling me the story was a young kid (to me), but one who I have met several times out there. I have been more than willing to share some intel with him because of the way he fishes (alone) the respect he has for the water, the lengths he is willing to go, to catch a fish, and his honesty. :thumbsup:

Most importantly, he is not an internet hero, does not really understand the internet presence of the group he related details about that caused us to lose access last night......







He's out there to fish, and beat his personal best each time he fishes.
Whether he catches or not, he will not stop fishing until the bite is beyond dead, and seems to love fishing the way I do...in it's purest sense, not for the chest pounding on the internet.....:kooky:

Understands fishing as not something some of us want to do....but something that we need to do......
I have become disillusioned with a lot of the younger anglers out there (and some my age as well), whose internet reports are less about helping others to learn, and more about the glory and telling everyone how great they are.......

[DarkSkies]

As a side note to this, earlier in the week I fished next to an internet famous group, "Pro-Staff"...that toot their horn every day on Facebook....about what sharpies they are......and yet, the other night, they were not able to read the water and understand where the fish should be, until I started catching, and then promptly mugged me. Despite my trying to be discreet about the fish I was catching, they eventally figured it out.......

I like figuring things out on my own....

It took me a long time to get to this point. I'm very critical of any success I have, and even more critical of my failures.
When I don't catch, I'm analyzing to see
1. What I could have done better,
2. Why the conditions were off for that night.....

This side story doesn't have much to do with the other matter of access...but in a way it is slightly connected. It has caused me to hate the internet and what it has done to the old fashioned ideals of hard work learning about fishing, the selfishness of many folks out there, and what that lazyness/ selfishness has done to fishing......









It is a fact that the folks who are touting their own horns the loudest, on Facebook, are causing some of the worst fishing access problems we are facing.

So selfish that someone only becomes involved when it is in their specific self-interest, and many people expect to become good at fishing overnight.....If it sounds like I resent this, it's because it's taken me years, even decades, to learn how to read the water, why and how there is a bite, and where the fish might be, based on the conditions.......

The fact that there are people out there who want the shortest possible path from point A to Z....will always exist......
I am irritated that some of the people who proclaim themselves to be the best of the best in the fishing world (on the internet) are not honest and some have so little honor that their reports cannot be trusted as valid.

[DarkSkies]

The Outline of What Happened the night of 4-25-13,
as related by the younger fisherman I know, who witnessed it personally.
I fleshed out the details about who they are after I confirmed independently with other sources.

1. A popular new fishing club, composed of younger anglers, known for some spot burning and other things on Facebook, last night decided to come looking for one of their critics, and do some fishing at the same time.

2. These guys were loud and obnoxious, and were told by more than one person that what they were doing was going to ruin it not only for them, but for everyone who fished the area.

3. Words were exchanged, loud arguments developed, and threats were made.

4. Some kid felt so threatened, that the police were called.

5. It was so bad, that police from 2 towns had to respond.

6. The police told the instigators they had to leave, and that the entire area would henceforth be closed to fishing.
This means that everyone was forced to leave. No parking would be allowed, legal or not, in the night time in that area unless you are a homeowner. Tickets would be issued under the overnight parking statute.

[DarkSkies]

As mentioned I struggled with the way to develop this thread....

Talked to a few of ya's about it this AM...some said "you don't want to give them any more publicity, best to ignore it"
some have said....well the supporters will say..."You're just a hater, you're jealous"

I'm very happy to see younger anglers start a club out there....no one says you have to join a traditional club,,,
That's one of the beautiful things about free choice in America...you can choose what, where, and how to live your life....:thumbsup:


When your Free Choice, interferes with how other people can enjoy something they love,,,,then something must be said....and awareness must be raised.....












1. Some of the folks did say things on Facebook. As I understand it, last night this group came looking for a fight, to punish the Critics.....:lynchmob:

2. It should also be mentioned that this Winter, when this particular group was fishing in a closed area and posting about it daily on Facebook, I was advised that a senior member of a fishing club in that area tried to mentor them a bit, and give them some advice about the negative publicity they were generating.

That member, was promptly told to go eff himself. :don't know why:
No advice was wanted or needed.

[DarkSkies]

As I get more time, and things develop, I will try to get to either of those towns and reach out to the police to see if there were names in report for 4-25.
That is public information, and something I would feel comfortable posting here.

If any of ya's has the time, and can get there before me, please feel free to contact me via PM. I will give you more specific details, and tell you where to seek the info.

If you can come up with the names of those who were there last night, public record, I would be glad to see you post it and made available for all to see under our Constitutional rights.

[Monty]

If its the people "young people" that I think it is who were mentioned on this site before then I can completely understand this happening. It should be expected because people like this will screw up the sport that we enjoy until something is done to change it. The longer I live the more people I learn to hate..... Dark, although I respect your decision on not mentioning their names, until people who are screwing up this world are identified, called out and held responsible we can expect things to get worse.

The penalty must be worse than the crime...we need deterrents.

[DarkSkies]

See, Monty, you figured it out already....:thumbsup:
You are absolutely correct in your assessment.....

The second that police report becomes available, if names are in it, I give any of ya's the permission to post the names here.....

Please PM me first. Although it will most likely be confidential, I don't want the name of the person who made the initial call to be posted anywhere on here....
And remember police reports generally take 7-10 days before they are logged on as being in the system.
If anyone wants to make those calls and follow up and post the names, I would be most grateful.

[jigfreak]

2. It should also be mentioned that this Winter, when this particular group was fishing in a closed area and posting about it daily on Facebook, I was advised that a senior member of a fishing club in that area tried to mentor them a bit, and give them some advice about the negative publicity they were generating.

That member, was promptly told to go eff himself. :don't know why:
No advice was wanted or needed.

Yup heard that too. Think it was Berkeley.
This group has no respect for anyone out there. Something's gotta give.http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.png

[storminsteve]

:mad:Unbelievable.

[finchaser]

There was a continuation of an ongoing NJ access problem last night.
As a result, surf fishermen now lost more access, and may not get it back.
I got this first hand report from a younger angler who was there and witnessed it with his own eyes.


Confirmed independently through several sources in my network.

Veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery impressive^^^^^^^^

Todays youth gone wild because their parents are afraid to reprimandd or hit them because they will turn to drugs or run away so they have created a generation of disrespectful assh-les. Obviously there psychology didn't work. they need to get there asses kicked. This isn't the first incident with them it's a shame they didn't get there's last night

[fishinmission78]

No surprise they did the same thing at the power plant in the winter. They are like that black mold in your house after Sandy, everything they touch gets ruined.

[J Barbosa]

Don't throw all the young guys under the bus, some of us behave ourselves. :HappyWave:

I think I know who your talking about and it's unfortunate that its gotten this far.

[finchaser]

Don't throw all the young guys under the bus, some of us behave ourselves. :HappyWave:

I think I know who your talking about and it's unfortunate that its gotten this far.

Ok you can drive the bus:HappyWave:

[Monty]

Don't throw all the young guys under the bus, some of us behave ourselves. :HappyWave:

I think I know who your talking about and it's unfortunate that its gotten this far.



Ok you can drive the bus:HappyWave:

:HappyWave:

I call shotgun!!

[J Barbosa]

You guys are hilarious. I prefer a yellow taxi in the city this way nobody would notice my erratic driving.

[storminsteve]

Dark I don't know if you are on facebook but they were identified as the urban anglers on facebook. Isn't that public enough to name them here? Delete this if you want but I am growing to hate these guys. If I ever see one of them I willl spit on them.

[storminsteve]

Don't throw all the young guys under the bus, some of us behave ourselves. :HappyWave:

I think I know who your talking about and it's unfortunate that its gotten this far.


Ok you can drive the bus:HappyWave:


:HappyWave:

I call shotgun!!


You guys are hilarious. I prefer a yellow taxi in the city this way nobody would notice my erratic driving.




Haha hilarious, lol! :clapping:
I want in too, - i call 2nd shotgun after Monty!

[fishinmission78]

Urban anglers they are a joke. One of them drives a black truck. I'll get the plate numbers the next time he is fishing FR. Post em here if dark will let me.

They also cheated to win the contest at Absecon bay, Dave's shop. The way the fish were hiitting that week, there is no way they got the winning fish on March 1st. Fish were being caught at the end of the day. The sun and tide have a lot to do with the bite there. Also whether they let warm water out. The schedule for that varies. They caught those fish on Feb 28 sometime in the day. My friend saw them fishing that afternoon. They were probably caught around 6-9pm Feb 25 and kept in a cooler till they made the drive down there at midnight to be the first in line Mar 1.

This group is the symbol of everything that is wrong with fishing nowadays.

Ego driven internet fishermen.

[hookset]

Veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery impressive^^^^^^^^

Todays youth gone wild because their parents are afraid to reprimandd or hit them because they will turn to drugs or run away so they have created a generation of disrespectful assh-les. Obviously there psychology didn't work. they need to get there asses kicked. This isn't the first incident with them it's a shame they didn't get there's last night


If its the people "young people" that I think it is who were mentioned on this site before then I can completely understand this happening. It should be expected because people like this will screw up the sport that we enjoy until something is done to change it. The longer I live the more people I learn to hate..... Dark, although I respect your decision on not mentioning their names, until people who are screwing up this world are identified, called out and held responsible we can expect things to get worse.

The penalty must be worse than the crime...we need deterrents.


What Monty said. Dark you should name these basstards. Like Steve said if they are on facebook and it is public there should be no legal issues. They give all of us a bad name. Mommy and Daddy probably never punished them when they were little like finchaser said.

[DarkSkies]

OK people. I wasn't aware of the controversy over facebook. Finchaser made me aware that this crew really has made a lot of friends out there. :rolleyes:
Since it is public already I have no problem or legal liability by naming the Urban-Anglers crew.

Furthermore, when the police report becomes available, if their names are in it feel free to post them here.
As Monty said we have lost a sense of shame in the fishing community when some selfish people do things that negatively affect others.

Remember if and when their names are posted here, that the ones that are named, should be held the most responsible.
I still don't think it's fair to blame the whole club for the behavior of a few. There are probably quite a few young kids who blindly follow what the leaders are doing.

Similar circumstances existed in the Boston Bombings....I believe that younger brother was manipulated into following his older brother.

[Monty]

Don't throw all the young guys under the bus, some of us behave ourselves. :HappyWave:

I think I know who your talking about and it's unfortunate that its gotten this far.


Ok you can drive the bus:HappyWave:


:HappyWave:

I call shotgun!!


You guys are hilarious. I prefer a yellow taxi in the city this way nobody would notice my erratic driving.


Haha hilarious, lol! :clapping:
I want in too, - i call 2nd shotgun after Monty!





Monty, thank you for your insight and suggestions. :HappyWave:

I just want to be in the front of the bus :headbang: :HappyWave:

[Fishman]

The behavior of the young is appauling. They feel as if they are entitled to do what they want. They won't learn until they can't fish anywere.:beatin:

[fishinmission78]

The behavior of the young is appauling. They feel as if they are entitled to do what they want. They won't learn until they can't fish anywere.:beatin:

Amen fishman.

[DarkSkies]

So, we've had threads here, on the facebook spot burners...and the internet heroes who after having fished for 5 years are suddenly experts, dispensing advice on where to fish, where the fish are, telling others their secrets of catching cow bass, and drawing maps with GPS coordinates to specific locations where they caught the latest "Epic" bite......






**This game used to be so hard, with actual miles logged, on the sand and rocks, to find the fish...
When I started surf fishing I was a kid, about 10 or 12...it was easy to catch bass on clams and I did that...
but when I wanted to learn how to catch fish on artificials, other than in a blitz...it was a long and painful process for me....many many nights of not catching anything, losing gear, plugs, wind knots, getting blasted by wind, not knowing patterns, tides, or anything about fish migration....it was an excruciatingly painful process to learn some of the things I now know.

Some helped me along the way, with little bits and pieces of advice.
I am also extremely grateful for some of the friends I have made, mentors, friends, etc, whose skill was far beyone mine...just the opportunity to fish with folks like that, has shown me some of the subtle nuances I was missing......
No one took me by the hand and said "this is how you catch a fish, go to XXX jetty or beach tonight because they have crushed them there for the last 3 nights..."

[DarkSkies]

Recently there have been some threads on here talking about Post-Sandy Access,,,,

I have tried to educate some of the folks out there...
1. That we are losing access every year. All documented here.
2. Other states and areas are worse (Connecticut or the North Shore of LI for example)
3. Our state could very soon adopt some of the sneaky tricks they use in other states to keep fishermen out...while they don't violate the Public Trust Doctrine, if a town posts severe night parking restrictions, they can effectively shut off all fishing in that area.....it's that simple folks, and many just don't seem to understand or get that....
4. As some areas are rebuilt from Sandy, access will be retained if they used Federal dollars to do it....it's mandatory...but there are all kinds of sneaky ways higher income towns can prevent fishermen from fishing an area..beyond parking restrictions...

[DarkSkies]

Losing Access in Monmouth County 2013...

Monmouth county, one of the most heavily populated Northern countries, has its own host of access issues...

1. Bridge fishing has been taken away, either by virtue of making it inaccessible (Raising the new Highlands Bridge, making fishing unrealistic from a height of 70' over the water)....

2. Certain selfish individuals have taken it upon themselves, when the local police are kind enough to relax the statutes and not enforce the law, to create disturbances or bring crowds large enough to cause fights, or the local residents to demand that something be done....

3. It might surprise some to know that anglers did get bridge access back recently. Although I have been hesitant to mention this, a small group of fishermen found various ways to do it.

4. Another county-specific issue is that a large national company bought up the rights to staff the bridges with their bridge tenders, as opposed to tenders on the State's payroll......

5. This contract with the State, is allegedly saving money as pensions and benefit packages are greatly reduced....and it doesn't look like that will change anytime soon....

6. However, that means a new dynamic.,,,,no more fishing on the bridges...the new company has an insurance plan that prohibits that, they don't want the liability.......


So the fact that some enterprising fishermen have become "nighttime politicians" and found a way to somehow fish these bridges, is nothing short of miraculous....

[DarkSkies]

Here is the other reason......


Another of them is a pro-staffer who will soon start his own guide service, and has been bringing groups of up to 5 at a time to fish in areas that are restricted.

In case anyone thinks this is a misguided attempt by me to discredit some person or group., I have documentation. I have witnessed some of this personally and documented that as well.

Some won't like it, but it is the truth...selfish people are again ruining it for the rest of us...

[DarkSkies]

I will be going into more detail as this new guide service is unveiled......remember that I can document this all... and have, in previous posts here....


My question to you folks out there.....
Is it ok to ruin the access for others, if you are only doing it to make a living? :learn:

[hookset]

Would that be a CTS pro staffer. Hs's all over facebook.the best surfcaster that ever lived. The biggest mouth that ever lived too. If it's who I think it is he sux.

[Monty]

My question to you folks out there.....
Is it ok to ruin the access for others, if you are only doing it to make a living? :learn:
In my opinion...
No, it is completely wrong.
Post it up with the facts.
At some point these people who are screwing us need to be called out and held accountable like the meat men, the urban angler *ss holes and others that are really screwing up this sport we all enjoy.

[DarkSkies]

Yes you folks are right on your assumptions. But instead of assumptions and just throwing jabs at someone where the motives may be questioned later.....Let's just try to stick to the facts.......

1. The generation of fishermen trash by a new posse of followers...all who have I have never seen in that moco area until 2013.
2. The fact that certain members in the group only fish a certain way....is a dead giveaway about who brought them there, or taught them to fish that way....

Without giving all the details, when you fish a river system, you learn over time that the fish move with the tide......I learned this the hard way, trial, error, and many nights of not catching.....yet the new breed, will stand and cast to structure, in a few limited places, all night long......Again., this at least suggests that some of them have been taught by our newest unnamed soon to be celebrity here......because every single one of them, in this group, fishes the same way....
It's such compelling evidence, because in all the years I have been fishing there, there have rarely been 4-5 guys lined up at night, fishing the structure, in exactly the same way, without regard to the fish moving and re-positioning with the tide.......

Some may say this is circumstantial evidence....but it is evidence, none the less.

[DarkSkies]

The trash and carelessness, and loud conversations at 3am.....

I have been taking pics as evidence in case someone were to come on here and question my motives...

1. I have also been picking up and disposing of fishermen trash so the affluent homeowners in the area don't get to see it in the morning.....and thereby make a call to the mayor asking him when he will be installing no parking signs to restrict the slob fishermen that keep coming there at night.....

2. I have been privy to loud conversations as I fish silently at night, by myself...
Trying to enjoy the solitude, and concentrate on the fishing, I have heard detailed conversations......here are just a few of the topics....as I stand silently in the night, and blend in, rather than get involved in loud conversations at 3am, without regard to homeowners who may be sleeping nearby:





*The Striper Cup, winning the Striper Cup this year....
*Starting a guide service......talking about the details.,....
*Talk about girlfriends, wives, wives complaining about fishing too much......
*Who got the biggest fish that night so far, what their numbers were...
*Personal issues, who is sick, who died, in the fishing community.......

These are all conversations I have been privy to, while fishing in the shadows 2-300' away from the loudmouths.....folks don't realize how easily their voices travel on the water at night. And how easy it is for the neighbors in that area to hear their conversations as well.

[DarkSkies]

Some of the trash I have picked up.....

[storminsteve]

I dont understand why you are so diligent about building a case here, dark. You should just name the basstard. With each post it becomes more obvious who it is. If he is doing this much damage to fishing access it shouldn't be a secret. I know you said you are not on facebook, but he trash talks everyone on facebook all the time. No one is as good a fisherman as he is. If there is any reason to post it you should. I don't know what the legal mumbo jumbo is, but if its on facebook its public info anyway.

[hookedonbass]

We should all try to do think a little more. saw a guy the other day come out and take a leak right in the open. Go in the water, or find a spot in some weeds somewhere (away from the houses). Never know when someone is looking and may judge all fishermen by what you do.

You could always find a port a potti at a construction site. If you have to go real bad just pee in the ocean

[hookset]

Anyone want to weigh in on the fake signs being put up on the S end of the PP canal?

[VSdreams]

Add bug light to the list. Was just there. Ranger told me it's closed because of the fishermen getting too close to the CG station.
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=20945&stc=1

[cowherder]

Man that sucks!!!!!!

[hookset]

:mad:The office building in RB is going to put up a fence restricting access to the bulkhead by the bridge. You can thank that DB mofo that was filleting fish on the hood of his car. Straw that broke the camel's back.

[dogfish]

Someone who was responsible for that stuff in the canal area would be getting a beatdown. You Joisey guys are too forgiving.

[storminsteve]

This is terrible. We just can't seem to catch a break from the idiots who don't care what happens from their behavior.

[DarkSkies]

Thank you folks for posting and keeping this up to date. I haven't had much time to do it. I have been all over the tri-state area since the season opened....and have to say I notice the worst offenses seem to still be in NJ, based on my observations.

You guys have mentioned them....but I want to focus on a few in particular:


1. Restricted access at the Bug Light, Sandy Hook, near the Coast Guard station.
We fought for access there, and it was probably taken for granted by too many. There were shortcut trails, and they were probably abused by a select few. It was also understood by (mostly) everyone who fished there that you were not to go near the Coast Guard station.
However, most of the fishermen who did it...knew that it was better to go deep in the night......and not cause any trouble with the Coast Guard. Over the years, I made in my business to become friendly with anyone in a position of Authority in these places.....and it has benefited me some.........

However...now we all lose....because of the selfish behavior of a few...who thought they could push the envelope over and over...without there being reprisals........


2. Restricted Access near the bridge and private areas on the Shrewsbury River
Every year it was the same delicate dance some of us waltzed......as we tried to show some respect....and LE looked the other way......until some Internet groups had to come and ruin it for everyone...and police were ordered to come down hard and enforce the trespassing laws.
A recent slap in the face to our hardworking LE officers.....was them passing the word around that fishermen were not allowed to park in the DD parking lot in Sea Bright after hours any more....and fishermen have been ignoring the warnings....Same circumstances for the "Something Fishy" parking lot at the base of the Hook......



3. Red Bank office building, Navesink River....
as mentioned above....will now be installing a fence to keep fishermen off the private bulkhead.....while for years...they tolerated us fishing there.....as long as fishermen cleaned up after themselves....
Videos like the one JB posted in this thread (to raise awareness):thumbsup:...show that it's almost impossible to expect other fishermen to behave themselves while out fishing.....

[DarkSkies]

I wanted to put this in a separate post, because it is so important that folks pay attention......


** 4. Earle Naval Pier, Leonardo

This is a well known fishing area...both sides of the pier....for years some of us have fished the waters adjacent to the pier (deep at night) in relative safety and obscurity.....as long as we didn't get too close to the pier......

A new commander has taken over, and he changed the security and enforcement protocol......


A. He restricted the passes given out specifically to retired military, and those who qualify as "fully disabled". I believe.
This angered a lot of old timers, some of whom had been fishing the pier for decades....and are now not authorized due to the stricter protocol. I benefited as well, getting on that pier to fish at night as a "vetted guest" of someone with a pass.

B For those who can still fish the pier....there are now stricter rules and hours, as well....
Those days of less strict regs are over, and although many are unhappy about it....it will not change.

C. Trespass fishing......
Many of the hardcore fishermen have done it, both sides of the pier....deep in the night....
For a long time, they "tolerated" it, as long as fishermen stayed a respectful distance away. (I was at one time told the respectful distance was at least 1000 feet, in line with the white buoys.....)

**In the last 6 weeks, there have been 2 arrests, and prosecutions, of fishermen who got to close to the pier wading at night.....I understand they will be going to court to answer the charges....

Please be aware........the Navy, or any branch of the Military, does not mess around.....they do not care if you misjudged the distance.....any Boaters/ Kayakers who have experienced the inflatables with the machine guns come zooming up to them (if you even accidentally "strayed" close to the pier).....can attest to the Assertiveness and Aggressiveness of our Soldiers. They have to be on constant alert for new terrorist approaches........This ZERO TOLERANCE policy will continue into the future and will not be relaxed....









**Anyone who thinks it's a joke....or they will "cut you a break with a warning"....be advised accordingly.
They are not joking, and mean business......

I can't point fingers or have the righteous indignation that others have......because I have been guilty of trespassing many choice places...to find fish.:embarassed:

Look for more and stricter enforcement in the future....We have no one to blame but ourselves....(or a few selfish fishermen who consistently disregarded the rules and had to ruin it for us all).

Please feel free to pass along to anyone you feel might benefit. Thanks for reading. :HappyWave:

[lostatsea]

That truly sucks! If you said its just a few isn't there anything at all that can be done about it?

[fishinmission78]

^^^^^ Sure, you can shoot the offeders. Just kidding, don't feel there is anyway to stem the tide. Same thing near oyster creek every year in the winter. Last winter guys came down from as far away as PA.

[buckethead]

Agreed it gets worse every year. I think as you said the internet and cell phones have a lot to do with it. The stretch of beach I fish has been pretty poor fishing this spring. The second it heats up, though, you will have guys with cell phones calling the troops in. What happened to just going fishing, and enjoying it for what it was. If you found fish that was great. If you lucked into some bigger fish that was a bonanza to be shared only by you and the other guys lucky enough to have picked the same beach as you.

[rockhopper]

What happened to just going fishing, and enjoying it for what it was. If you found fish that was great. If you lucked into some bigger fish that was a bonanza to be shared only by you and the other guys lucky enough to have picked the same beach as you.

I dunno maybe it faded into the sunset like the old western movies. I def agree. Have had a bite to myself so many times and one guy makes a cell call and then 15 mins later you are surrounded by the cell phone brigade. Sucks!

[ledhead36]

I wanted to put this in a separate post, because it is so important that folks pay attention......


** 4. Earle Naval Pier, Leonardo

Please be aware........the Navy, or any branch of the Military, does not mess around.....they do not care if you misjudged the distance.....any Boaters/ Kayakers who have experienced the inflatables with the machine guns come zooming up to them (if you even accidentally "strayed" close to the pier).....can attest to the Assertiveness and Aggressiveness of our Soldiers. They have to be on constant alert for new terrorist approaches........This ZERO TOLERANCE policy will continue into the future and will not be relaxed....









**Anyone who thinks it's a joke....or they will "cut you a break with a warning"....be advised accordingly.
They are not joking, and mean business......

I can't point fingers or have the righteous indignation that others have......because I have been guilty of trespassing many choice places...to find fish.:embarassed:

Look for more and stricter enforcement in the future....We have no one to blame but ourselves....(or a few selfish fishermen who consistently disregarded the rules and had to ruin it for us all).

Please feel free to pass along to anyone you feel might benefit. Thanks for reading. :HappyWave:

true dat, CBS news 2 profiled them on May 10. Serious business, stay away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mxp7K9nY7ow&feature=youtu.be

[hookset]

Some guys never learn until they have a 50 cal pointed at them.

[lostatsea]

If you mess with the military you deserve the consequences. Just saying.