Brookhaven bans fishing at Shoreham Beach!

[BassBuddah]

Shoreham Beach fishermen jarred by 'No Fishing' signs http://www.news12.com/NewCDA/images/spacer.gif
http://images.news12.com/uploads/images/webMedia/210697.jpg (http://www.news12.com/NewCDA/articles/media_pop?region=LI&id=214199)


07/09/08) SHOREHAM - Shoreham fishermen say the town of Brookhaven’s sudden enforcement of a no-fishing policy is bad for business, but the town says the rule is nothing new.

The fishermen say “No Fishing” signs have suddenly popped up along Shoreham Beach, which is threatening their livelihoods and local businesses.

Stanley Hentschel, owner of Rocky Point Fishing Stop, has been in business for more than 30 years. He says this year, business is already slow and that the fishing ban isn’t helping.

The town says Shoreham Beach has always had a no-fishing policy because it's a bathing beach. However, fishermen say people have been fishing there for years and only recently has the ban been enforced.

Fishermen say they want a designated fishing area as a compromise. Brookhaven Parks and Recreation Commissioner Edward Morris says that won’t happen if it will jeopardize the safety of the people using the beach and bathing in the waters.

[stormchaser]

C/mon guys we have to get organized or it will happen everywhere. There won't be anyplace left to fish without sneaking in! From another site, hope this is ok:


I went to Shoreham Beach today , News12 was covering the story of Brookhaven banning fishing at this beach. The reporter said this story would be on today , earliest would be 5pm and run throughout the night and I would guess maybe tomorrow also.

There were 7 or 8 people there, including :

Stan Hentschel from Rocky Point Fishing Stop who has been fighting access issues on the North Shore since the 70's. Stan's email to News 12 initiated coverage of this story. I have known Stan since I was a kid, he gave me my first job working at his store. 27 years later it has come full cirlce and I am glad I was able to go out there and support him.

Willie Young was there also. I called Willie last night to let him know about this event, Willie drove 50 miles each way on the spur of the moment to be there. I thank Willie immensely for all he has done for Long Island fisherman, this guy deserves alot of credit.

Fred Golafaro from The Fisherman was there also.

A local fisherman who works at Rocky Point Fishing Stop was there as well as some other local fisherman.

We spent about 30 minutes giving the reporter some background on the issue and she interviewed Fred, Stan , Willie and the local fisherman on camera.

One guy brought his rod which is supposedly against the rules, a lifeguard made a half hearted attempt to stop him by yelling out 'no fishing allowed', but nothing happened after that.

Lets see how the piece comes out , but mission accomplished, we are fighting back and raising awareness. If they can shut down this beach they can try to do it to any beach. North Shore out there is terrible for access, there is no legal fishing or legal access for about 15 miles from Shoreham to Mt Sinai , this is totally unacceptable and probably illegal.

[stormchaser]

Jane Bonner is in charge of this, there was a public meeting in which she "happily" reported that fishing access would be closed. We have to make our vioces heard on this guys, beginning of all the access dominos falling down. Complacency will get us nowhere. Here's a c&p of the issues she cited, and her phone #. Call that # as much as you can, be respectful, and voice your opinion as a tax-paying fisherman who votes!

According to her, Miss Jane Bonner shut the place down to fishing due to the following:

1. homeless people living in the woods leaving dirty diapers and other filth
2. homeless people living in derelict boats in the woods
3. Shoreham was never on the night access list
4. she has recieved numerous calls from locals praising the action now that they can enjoy the beach again
5. illegal activity that the police cannot totally control
6. she is just enforcing existing regulations, not restricting anyone

If you want to hear it first-hand, call her @ 631.451.8894

[surferman]

Seems to me that if homeless people, dirty diapers and illegal activity are there then it should be closed to the beach bathers and opened to the fisherman.

[clamchucker]

I don''t usually fish NY, but I'll call her today to support you guys. Access lost in one area is a collective loss for all fishermen.

[nitestrikes]

Agreed, I'll put my two cents in.

[dogfish]

BB, I don't fish in NY, but I'll make a call in support. good luck.

[BassBuddah]

Here's the link to the News12 site. Click on the video link to see the video and the interview with the town idiot who thinks fishermen are endangering tha safety of bathers.http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.gif

http://www.news12.com/LI/topstories/article?id=214199#

[pinhead44]

I called, she was "unavailable". I'll keep calling. We have to keep up the pressure on this, people.

[rockhopper]

Alright guys, I can at least make a phone call, will call that # tomorrow.

[fishlipper]

Update - here is a letter sent from a guy, rpsurf, on another site. It's a great letter.:clapping: Other people can send variations of that if they are looking for something to use as a template. I think it would be good if you changed it up a little so it doesn't get ignored as a form letter:

Subject: Questions about Shoreham Beach fishing access
Message: Ms Bonner,

The other day my dad and I went to Shoreham Beach to fish this spot for the first time this year. Needless to say we were perplexed and shocked when the attendant told us fishing is prohibited from the beach.
Typically we would walk down to the jetty by the creek and fish there, often times doing very well and enjoying beach access my taxes pay for.
Needless to say I am quite bothered that it seems I can't even walk this beach with fishing equipment to get to my fishing spot which is almost one mile away from any bathers. Can you clarify exactly what is the bathing area? I don't have an issue respecting the space of swimmers, and quite frankly I 'm not sure why anyone would fish in a bathing area, as long as the designated bathing section doesn't encompass 10 miles of the beach.

Additionally I would think if the entire beach is designated a bathing area I would assume there would be more then 1 lifeguard to cover that much of the beach. The other interesting fact is the beach on the other side of the jetty in Wading River doesn't have such a restriction. I'm very interested in your views concerning this public access matter and where you stand.

Thank you for your time.

Regards,


Here's the response he got. To me, is looks like she is just "passing the buck". Please keep up the pressure with letters and phone calls, guys. Remind them that they accept federal dollars for beach replenishment every time there is a severe storm or hurricane aftereffects. UNLESS they are accepting ZERO dollars from the federal gov't, they have an obligation to allow access to ALL people, re the Public Trust Doctrine.


Thank you for your recent letter regarding fishing at Brookhaven’s Shoreham Beach.

Since being elected to the Brookhaven Town Board, I have worked to improve the quality of life for residents in our area, provide the important services and preserve the character of our communities, at an affordable price for our taxpayer.

As you may know, the issue you wrote about has been an ongoing question regarding beach users and the Town, which resulted in increased code enforcement action by Supervisor Foley last year.

To address your specific questions regarding fishing or other recreational use of our town facilities I am forwarding your letter to our Parks Commissioner, Ed Morris.

Thank you for contacting me on this important issue. I will ask Commissioner Morris to keep me apprised of this situation on your behalf.

Sincerely yours,

Councilwoman Jane Bonner

[fishlipper]

Another update:

Here's the latest from this guy, rpsurf. He seems like he will not give up, gotta hand it to him! :clapping: But it's not just one guy's fight! We all need to apply pressure, and respectful letters and e-mails, so they know we mean business! They will only be swayed if they feel we have "weight" or numbers of fishermen behind us, and that they face a possible legal challenge.

Please try to put your own letters together, using this as a model, and let the town know that we are standing up to be counted. Thanks, guys. :thumbsup: (and thanks to RP surf for not giving up) :thumbsup:


From Ms Bonner:

Thank you for your follow up e-mail. I have taken the liberty of forwarding your e-mail to the Law Department and our Town Attorney for their review. Most of the questions are in legal in nature and I would like to have them follow up with you directly. Once again, thank you for your concern and opinions.

Councilwoman Jane Bonner

Follow up from RpSurf: :clapping:
Dear Councilwoman Bonner,

Thank you for taking the time out to reply to my email. You are to be commended for your contributions to society and making Brookhaven a better place to live for your constituents.

But your actions on behalf of the few wealthy beachfront property owners only serve a small few and not the public at large. Banning fishing at Shoreham beach is misguided and illegal. This action is having a negative impact on all tax paying residents of Brookhaven from a quality of life standpoint and having a negative impact on the local economy.

I am aware of the letter from Supervisor Foley which states fishing is legal outside the designated bathing area. Why are there "No Fishing " signs posted in multiple places at the beach ? Why are lifeguards telling people there is no fishing ? Why have lifeguards been instructed to call the police if someone on the beach possesses a fishing rod ? Is it illegal in the United States of America to possess a fishing rod ? Does Shoreham have it's own laws that are contrary to the law of the land.

Those beaches belong to everyone, not just the wealthy property owners who would like keep "undesirables" off of "their" beaches. There are miles and miles of beaches there that can be shared by everyone. Fisherman have no desire to fish near the designated swimming area. It is not safe and no fisherman would do this, so banning fishing at a swimming beach just appears to be a smokesreen to keep as many people off the beach and out of the area as possible.

Are there any documented cases of swimmers being injured by fishermen ? I highly doubt this.

I have also heard that Shoreham has a homeless problem, so they banned fishing. I find it impossible to believe that a rich beachfront community has a homeless problem. How does banning fishing help solve this problem ? If banning fishing solves a homeless problem, then I suggest you get on the phone with the mayors of major cities in the United States and let them know you have a
solution to their problem. Mayor Bloomberg , we have a solution to the homeless problem, just ban fishing in NYC !!

Many fisherman are very angered by this short-sighted , self serving , illegal ban on fishing. There are many organized groups who represent fisherman and actions like yours only serve to increase people's resolve. Word of these illegal action has spread very quickly amongst the fishing community and people are taking action. Fisherman and their friends vote and are surely not going to look positively on anyone associated with this ban.

I urge you to do the right thing and restore fishing at Shoreham Beach. Hopefully this can be done without a legal challenge, but I assure you this issuewill not die until the ban is removed.

I personally am spreading the word on this to everyone I know in Brookhaven. As word spreads on this issue amongst the people of Brookhaven, Long Island and beyond, those associated with
banning fishing on this beach are not going to be looked upon kindly. There is no legitimate , moral or legal basis for this ban and anyone aside from the wealthy few who live near the beach will surely see this.

Sincerely Yours,

John>>

[rpsurf5]

New to this site, thanks fishlipper.

Thanks to everyone supporting the Shoreham fight. We all need to stick together, there is strength in numbers. What has been done at Shoreham is reprehensible.

Get involved as much as you can, dont assume someone else is taking care of issues like this. We all need to be involved. Join a club if you are not already in on. Organizations like Montauk Surfcaster Association, LIBBA, Kayak Fishing Association of New York and the New York Coalition of Recreational Fishing are fighting for fishermans rights. The more members they have and funding the better off we will all be.

John

[bababooey]

I took rp surf's letter, changed it up a bit so it doesn't look like spam, and sent my version out to her. Keep up the pressure guys, or it's over. rp, I'm kinda slow to do things sometimes, your letter made it a lot easier to get started. Great letter, hope you win this.:clapping:

[stormchaser]

rp, I c&p your letter and response from another site. Looks like we might have to push harder on this one. Seems what the town is doing is illegal and violates the public trust doctrine, yet they are sticking to their guns. guys, we need more letters and more participation, please. Keep sending those letters. Maybe we can organize a group of fishermen to go there, at least 50 of us, and challenge the law, call the news reporters ahead of time, and see if they will summons us? What say you, rp?


[Today I received a letter from Edward P. Morris who is the Commissioner of the Department of Parks, Recreation and Sports, and Cultural Resources. ]

Dear Mr. Russell,

This letter is written in response to your inquiry regarding fishing at Shoreham Beach, an issue that has received a great deal of attention during the summer months.

Shoreham Beach is a Town bathing beach and fishing has never been permitted at this facility. In fact, Section 10-11 of the Brookhaven Town Code specifically forbids fishing at Town beaches for obvious safety reasons.

While the shoreline of the beach extends for a significant distance both to the east and west of Shoreham Beach, the land on either side of the Town's beach is private property and the owners have asked the Town to inform our residents that trespassing is not allowed on their beach.

I have taken the liberty of enclosing a list of Town of Brookhaven designated fishing areas on both the North and South Shores, where fisherman can safely cast their lines from the shore or Town fishing piers.

[and rp's thoughts- hope you don't mind I quoted you, rp]:D

Some of my thoughts on this letter :


1) Using the excuse that this is a bathing beach and there is a safety issue is just a smokescreen to cover up the real issues. The beach is extensive at Shoreham, this is not a safety issue.

2) I guess the commissioner and the residents choose to ignore the Public Trust Doctrine.

3) Supervisor Foley has sent letters to people that state fishing is allowed outside the bathing area, so that letter contradicts this one.

[rpsurf5]

Thanks for support. Right now the plan has been to send letters and emails to as many people as possible to put the pressure on and hopefully someone in a position of power takes positive action. I dont think this part has played out yet, but if this doesnt work we may have to take it to the next level with organized protest, etc.

The local paper has an article coming out on Friday, I am interested to see if the politicians or town is quoted in the story , depending on what happens in this article could decide next steps.

Stay tuned.......

[rpsurf5]

My response :

Commissioner Morris,

I received your letter today in response to my questions and comments on the ban of fishing at Shoreham Beach. Thank you for taking the time to respond to me, I appreciate it. I have some follow-up questions for you, if you could please address these I would appreciate it.

You state that fishing has never been permitted at this beach. People have been fishing here for years, why now is Brookhaven enforcing this town code ?

Why do you say there are obvious safety concerns ? The beach here is extensive and the allowable bathing area is roped in and patrolled by lifeguards. How are fisherman who are fishing outside of the designated bathing areas causing a safety issue ? Have there been any documented incidents in the past of fisherman injuring bathers ?

Supervisor Foley has sent letters to people indicating fishing is allowed outside of the designated bathing area, what you are saying contradicts this. Can you please explain this ?

Numerous sources have said the real reason the beach has been closed to fishing is littering issues, is this the case ? How do you know fisherman have done this ? If so, shouldn't law enforcement ticket these individuals ? Banning fishing completely because of the actions of a few individuals is not the answer. Does the Town of Brookhaven ban driving because some people are speeding or driving drunk ?

Are you and the Town of Brookhaven familiar with the Public Trust Doctrine ? People are allowed to fish and be on the beach up to the mean high tide mark, so the beach the residents think is "theirs" is not "theirs". Access must be provided to these beaches. The town has stated that anyone who even comes onto the beach with a fishing rod will have Public Safety called on them. First of all possessing a fishing rod is not illegal and second , the Public Trust Doctrine allows for access to the beach. The Town of Brookhaven is violating the Public Trust Doctrine.

Instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water and banning fishing, I suggest the Town attack the real problem here. Tax paying residents are being deprived of the resources they pay for and this ban is having a negative impact on the local economy. If littering is an issue , utilize the enforcement and cleaning services that tax payers are paying for. I would also suggest working with fishing organizations to do beach clean-ups if needed. Many organizations sponsor beach clean-up outings and fisherman work to clean up the beaches. Real fisherman are not the problem here, in fact most real fisherman do not leave litter and are excellent stewards of the beach and sea.

Regards,

John

[fishinmission78]

My response :

Commissioner Morris,

I received your letter today in response to my questions and comments on the ban of fishing at Shoreham Beach. Thank you for taking the time to respond to me, I appreciate it. I have some follow-up questions for you, if you could please address these I would appreciate it.

You state that fishing has never been permitted at this beach. People have been fishing here for years, why now is Brookhaven enforcing this town code ?

Why do you say there are obvious safety concerns ? The beach here is extensive and the allowable bathing area is roped in and patrolled by lifeguards. How are fisherman who are fishing outside of the designated bathing areas causing a safety issue ? Have there been any documented incidents in the past of fisherman injuring bathers ?

Supervisor Foley has sent letters to people indicating fishing is allowed outside of the designated bathing area, what you are saying contradicts this. Can you please explain this ?

Numerous sources have said the real reason the beach has been closed to fishing is littering issues, is this the case ? How do you know fisherman have done this ? If so, shouldn't law enforcement ticket these individuals ? Banning fishing completely because of the actions of a few individuals is not the answer. Does the Town of Brookhaven ban driving because some people are speeding or driving drunk ?

Are you and the Town of Brookhaven familiar with the Public Trust Doctrine ? People are allowed to fish and be on the beach up to the mean high tide mark, so the beach the residents think is "theirs" is not "theirs". Access must be provided to these beaches. The town has stated that anyone who even comes onto the beach with a fishing rod will have Public Safety called on them. First of all possessing a fishing rod is not illegal and second , the Public Trust Doctrine allows for access to the beach. The Town of Brookhaven is violating the Public Trust Doctrine.

Instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water and banning fishing, I suggest the Town attack the real problem here. Tax paying residents are being deprived of the resources they pay for and this ban is having a negative impact on the local economy. If littering is an issue , utilize the enforcement and cleaning services that tax payers are paying for. I would also suggest working with fishing organizations to do beach clean-ups if needed. Many organizations sponsor beach clean-up outings and fisherman work to clean up the beaches. Real fisherman are not the problem here, in fact most real fisherman do not leave litter and are excellent stewards of the beach and sea.

Regards,

John


Excellent letter! :clapping::clapping::clapping: will try to send one like it today, looks like they have their heads in the sand on this one. good luck with your fight. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

[voyager35]

rp, excellent letter. I'm mostly fishing in NJ, but will try to call tomorrow and ask her office if they can explain how this does not violate the Public trust doctrine.

[stripercrazy]

Fantastic letter. Well-written and to the point. Sending one out today. Great job keeping the interest up in this, rp, fish, storm, and others. We can't let this one die.:thumbsup:

[bluesdude71]

Sent my letter. Was wondering if there are any updates?

[rpsurf5]

http://www2.timesreview.com/SUN/Stories/S071808_fishermen_psh

That last paragraph sums it up, beach front residents trying to keep us off of "their" beach. I guess they have not heard of the Public Trust Doctrine. Really sickening that they have been able to do this.

Keep writing letters and emails if you have not already.

Groups like LIBBA, MSA , Kayak Fishing Association of New York and the Coalition of Recreational Fishing are working on this issue, stay tuned.

[stormchaser]

Found one copy of the Public Trust Doctrine on this site, under laws and regs. RP, I was wondering what your thoughts were about getting 50 or 100 of us together, and all going up there, peacefully, but with the intention of fishing, and letting News12 and other news organizations know that we are going up there?

We could do it on a Sat or Sunday when a lot of people would be able to make it?

I feel if a lot of us went up there, and again, did this peacefully, no aggressive statements, or confrontations, and let them know that we intended to exercise our rights under the Public trust doctrine, I don't think they would arrest us. If they did, they would have to defend going against the Public Trust Doctrine in court.

I may be wrong, but I don't think any town, in NY or NJ, wants to try a case that might prove to be a landmark, especially if they stood to lose, and set a precedent?

Since you seem to be a driving force behind organizing people on this, rp, what say you?

Do you think we could pull it off? Could we get enough guys together? How about if we publicized it weeks ahead of time, on a few websites? I'm thinking if we showed up with a minimum of 50 or 100 fishernem, respectful but assertive of our rights, they just would not want to arrest us without starting a tremendous legal battle. Even if arrests were made, I would do it. :thumbsup:

What's the worst they can charge us with, disorderly persons? Trespassing? None of that stuff could be proved in court, it they chose to take it that far. I'm sick of the syrupy sweet smiles put out by officials, while we all know privately they detest us. :burn:

Sometimes you have to be willing to take a stand on something. I'm willing, rp, do you think you can rally some other guys to do this, or is it a stupid idea? I just feel we have to do something more, letters aren't cutting it anymore.




The Public Trust Doctrine (http://www.nj.gov/dep/cmp/access/public_access_handbook.pdf)
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...ead.php?t=1044 (http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=1044)

The set of laws that guarantees all people rights to the water. First set by the Roman Emperor Justinian around A.D. 500 as part of Roman civil law, the Public Trust Doctrine establishes the publics right to full use of the seashore as declared in the following quotation from Book II of the Institutes of Justinian:

“By the law of nature these things are common to all mankind – the air, running water, the sea, and consequently the shores of the sea.

No one, therefore, is forbidden to approach the seashore, provided that he respects habitations, monuments, and the buildings, which are not, like the sea, subject only to the law of nations.”

Influenced by Roman civil law, the tenets of public trust were maintained through English common Law and adopted by the original 13 colonies.

Following the American Revolution, the royal right to tidelands was vested to the 13 new states, then to each subsequent state, and has remained a part of public policy into the present time.

Through various judicial decisions, the right of use upheld by the Public Trust Doctrine has been incorporated into many state constitutions and statutes, allowing the public the right to all lands, water and resources held in the public trust by the state, including those in New Jersey.



Here's the link:

http://www.nj.gov/dep/cmp/access/pub...s_handbook.pdf (http://www.nj.gov/dep/cmp/access/public_access_handbook.pdf)

[stormchaser]

RP, I c&P the article so people could read it, hope you don't mind:




Fishing prohibition raises concerns over beach access

Fishermen say 'No fishing' signs violate their rights

By Peggy Spellman Hoey (peggy@northshoresun.com)

http://assets.mediaspanonline.com/prod/1072608/54088_ViewSize.jpgSun photo by Peter Blasl Stan Hetterich (left), owner of Stan's Bait and Tackle in Rocky Point, with fisherman Matt Hentschel. The pair is not happy about new signs prohibiting fishing at Shoreham Beach. SHOREHAM--Most anglers are gone fishin' this season, though not at Shoreham Beach.

While local residents are happy with Brookhaven officials' decision to place "No fishing" signs at Shoreham Beach -- one of several measures, including a security camera, entrance gate and lifeguard, implemented for safety purposes -- local fishermen have their hackles up fearing their beach access has been restricted.
Stan Hentschel, owner of the Rocky Point Fishing Stop, said he has watched beach access on the North Shore whittled away since the '80s. First government officials banned beach driving, then they placed"No parking" signs on public access roads; now, he says, all that remains of fishing access on the North Shore from Cedar Beach in Mount Sinai to Shoreham is eight night-fishing parking spots.

"Down at Cedar Beach they are elbow to elbow," he said.
Mr. Hentschel believes the "No fishing" signs violate the Public Trust Doctrine, which allows residents beach access below the mean high water mark.

"I almost died in Vietnam," Mr. Hentschel said. "I'll be damned if someone got on that beach and told me I couldn't walk on that beach or fish on that beach."

Willie Young, president of the New York Coalition of Recreational Anglers, a lobbying group of about 9,000, said the organization will request a meeting on beach access with town officials in light of this recent issue.

"There's been access issues before on the North Shore," Mr. Young said of a 15-mile stretch of private beaches. "The civic associations try to keep the residents out, but this is a town beach and we have the right to fish there."

Deputy Supervisor Jim LaCarrubba, however, disagreed that officials are trying to restrict the fishermen's beach access, because it is written into the town code that fishing is prohibited at all beaches and parks throughout the bathing season. He also noted that night fishing is prohibited at Shoreham Beach as well.
"We are looking to protect the interests of all the residents. We have been dealing with a lot of issues with the Shoreham Beach property," he added.

In 2006, a Coram woman who stayed after hours died after being struck by lightning, and a Patchogue man drowned near the jetty. In August 2007, town officials announced more than 100 arrests for incidents ranging from trespassing to illegal ATV use and over-fishing at the beach.

Under the town code, Brookhaven public information officer Kevin Molloy explained, fishermen could be issued field appearance tickets for fishing both during beach hours and after dusk, because of the prohibition on night fishing. If issued a ticket, fishermen would then be required either to appear in court or pay a fee, he said. Either fishing offense is punishable by a fine of up to $250 or 10 days in jail, according to Mr. Molloy. Also, fishermen caught after dusk at Shoreham Beach could be issued parking violations, which run about $50, he said. Mr. Molloy also noted the town does not have jurisdiction outside Shoreham Beach. The private property surrounding the beach falls under the jurisdiction of the Suffolk County Police Department, he said.

Despite the town's stance, Mr. LaCarrubba said the supervisor's office would not likely turn the fishermen away if they wanted to meet and discuss the beach access issue.

John Skinner, a Wading River resident and an editor for Nor'east Saltwater Fishing magazine, noted that while most fishermen are solitary individuals who have no desire to fish while bathers are present, they should at least be able to walk below the mean high water mark from Wading River to Orient Point, despite private property owners' gripes. The town's recent fishing ban could set a beach access restriction precedent elsewhere, he said.

"This is a Brookhaven thing where you got people saying, 'This is mine,'ââ" Mr. Skinner said of private property owners.
Second District Councilwoman Jane Bonner noted that in past summers people accessing the town beach to fish would often trespass on the private beach property nearby. It was not uncommon to find these individuals sleeping on the beach and an assortment of debris ranging from bait containers to broken glass, and even dirty diapers, she said.

Since Ms. Bonner has had the signs installed, she said, residents are ecstatic that the town code is finally being enforced on the beach.

"The residents didn't feel safe when they went with their children to the beach," she said.

Kathy Anderson, a resident of Shoridge Hills, one of the private beaches affected by public safety issues on Shoreham Beach, said residents feel much safer with the new security measures.
"I understand [Councilwoman Bonner] is catching some heat from the fishermen, which I understand how they feel," Ms. Anderson said, "but this is a private beach. We weren't able to enjoy our private beach."

[stormchaser]

http://assets.mediaspanonline.com/prod/1072608/54088_ViewSize.jpgSun photo by Peter Blasl Stan Hetterich (left), owner of Stan's Bait and Tackle in Rocky Point, with fisherman Matt Hentschel. The pair is not happy about new signs prohibiting fishing at Shoreham Beach. SHOREHAM--Most anglers are gone fishin' this season, though not at Shoreham Beach.


1. If you could get Matt Hentschel to lead a group of us, at least 50 or 100, with news cameras, I think it would be political suicide for them to arrest us. Even if they did, how could they ever defend against this in court?

"Down at Cedar Beach they are elbow to elbow," he said.
Mr. Hentschel believes the "No fishing" signs violate the Public Trust Doctrine, which allows residents beach access below the mean high water mark.

"I almost died in Vietnam," Mr. Hentschel said. "I'll be damned if someone got on that beach and told me I couldn't walk on that beach or fish on that beach."


2. Maybe Willie Young could be there, too? This guy has to have some juice, and he's right, they can't legislate what we can do below the mean high water mark. There's no way they could ever win in court.
Willie Young, president of the New York Coalition of Recreational Anglers, a lobbying group of about 9,000, said the organization will request a meeting on beach access with town officials in light of this recent issue.

"There's been access issues before on the North Shore," Mr. Young said of a 15-mile stretch of private beaches. "The civic associations try to keep the residents out, but this is a town beach and we have the right to fish there."

Deputy Supervisor Jim LaCarrubba, however, disagreed that officials are trying to restrict the fishermen's beach access, because it is written into the town code that fishing is prohibited at all beaches and parks throughout the bathing season. He also noted that night fishing is prohibited at Shoreham Beach as well.
"We are looking to protect the interests of all the residents. We have been dealing with a lot of issues with the Shoreham Beach property," he added.


3. What does a woman struck by lightning and a "swimmer" drowning near a jetty, or dirty diapers, have to do with fishermen? When was the last time any of you took your baby fishing with you??:huh:
In 2006, a Coram woman who stayed after hours died after being struck by lightning, and a Patchogue man drowned near the jetty. In August 2007, town officials announced more than 100 arrests for incidents ranging from trespassing to illegal ATV use and over-fishing at the beach.


4. I don't see how they would arrest 50 or 100 fishermen who came up with news cameras. It's like a chess game. Arresting us would be the first gambit in a game that they would end up in checkmate, because their laws could then be challenged in court, as being superceded by the public trust doctrine. this would be a bad position to put themselves in, because if they lost, other towns would face the same issues, threat of lawsuits that they could not win.

Eventually, they would have to make an agreement with the fishermen, allowing us to claim our already existing access below the mean high water line.
Under the town code, Brookhaven public information officer Kevin Molloy explained, fishermen could be issued field appearance tickets for fishing both during beach hours and after dusk, because of the prohibition on night fishing. If issued a ticket, fishermen would then be required either to appear in court or pay a fee, he said. Either fishing offense is punishable by a fine of up to $250 or 10 days in jail, according to Mr. Molloy. Also, fishermen caught after dusk at Shoreham Beach could be issued parking violations, which run about $50, he said. Mr. Molloy also noted the town does not have jurisdiction outside Shoreham Beach. The private property surrounding the beach falls under the jurisdiction of the Suffolk County Police Department, he said.

Despite the town's stance, Mr. LaCarrubba said the supervisor's office would not likely turn the fishermen away if they wanted to meet and discuss the beach access issue.

John Skinner, a Wading River resident and an editor for Nor'east Saltwater Fishing magazine, noted that while most fishermen are solitary individuals who have no desire to fish while bathers are present, they should at least be able to walk below the mean high water mark from Wading River to Orient Point, despite private property owners' gripes. The town's recent fishing ban could set a beach access restriction precedent elsewhere, he said.


5. This is one example why there will be problems for years to come. This woman has no concept or understanding of the Public Trust Doctrine, so to her we will always be tresspasers, unless we can prove in court that we are not.
Kathy Anderson, a resident of Shoridge Hills, one of the private beaches affected by public safety issues on Shoreham Beach, said residents feel much safer with the new security measures.
"I understand [Councilwoman Bonner] is catching some heat from the fishermen, which I understand how they feel," Ms. Anderson said, "but this is a private beach. We weren't able to enjoy our private beach."


I would not look forward to getting arrested, but the question you have to ask yourself as fishermen is: What measures am I willing to take to preserve my rights as a fisherman? Will I stand up and do something about it, or just stand idly by while others do the work for me?

[rpsurf5]

Found one copy of the Public Trust Doctrine on this site, under laws and regs. RP, I was wondering what your thoughts were about getting 50 or 100 of us together, and all going up there, peacefully, but with the intention of fishing, and letting News12 and other news organizations know that we are going up there?

We could do it on a Sat or Sunday when a lot of people would be able to make it?

I feel if a lot of us went up there, and again, did this peacefully, no aggressive statements, or confrontations, and let them know that we intended to exercise our rights under the Public trust doctrine, I don't think they would arrest us. If they did, they would have to defend going against the Public Trust Doctrine in court.

I may be wrong, but I don't think any town, in NY or NJ, wants to try a case that might prove to be a landmark, especially if they stood to lose, and set a precedent?

Since you seem to be a driving force behind organizing people on this, rp, what say you?

Do you think we could pull it off? Could we get enough guys together? How about if we publicized it weeks ahead of time, on a few websites? I'm thinking if we showed up with a minimum of 50 or 100 fishernem, respectful but assertive of our rights, they just would not want to arrest us without starting a tremendous legal battle. Even if arrests were made, I would do it. :thumbsup:

What's the worst they can charge us with, disorderly persons? Trespassing? None of that stuff could be proved in court, it they chose to take it that far. I'm sick of the syrupy sweet smiles put out by officials, while we all know privately they detest us. :burn:

Sometimes you have to be willing to take a stand on something. I'm willing, rp, do you think you can rally some other guys to do this, or is it a stupid idea? I just feel we have to do something more, letters aren't cutting it anymore.




The Public Trust Doctrine (http://www.nj.gov/dep/cmp/access/public_access_handbook.pdf)
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...ead.php?t=1044 (http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=1044)

The set of laws that guarantees all people rights to the water. First set by the Roman Emperor Justinian around A.D. 500 as part of Roman civil law, the Public Trust Doctrine establishes the publics right to full use of the seashore as declared in the following quotation from Book II of the Institutes of Justinian:

“By the law of nature these things are common to all mankind – the air, running water, the sea, and consequently the shores of the sea.

No one, therefore, is forbidden to approach the seashore, provided that he respects habitations, monuments, and the buildings, which are not, like the sea, subject only to the law of nations.”

Influenced by Roman civil law, the tenets of public trust were maintained through English common Law and adopted by the original 13 colonies.

Following the American Revolution, the royal right to tidelands was vested to the 13 new states, then to each subsequent state, and has remained a part of public policy into the present time.

Through various judicial decisions, the right of use upheld by the Public Trust Doctrine has been incorporated into many state constitutions and statutes, allowing the public the right to all lands, water and resources held in the public trust by the state, including those in New Jersey.



Here's the link:

http://www.nj.gov/dep/cmp/access/pub...s_handbook.pdf (http://www.nj.gov/dep/cmp/access/public_access_handbook.pdf)

This is a really good idea, I think through the various web sites and organizations we could get a big turnout. Logisitics would need to be worked out to make sure town was not able to thwart this effort and also in case someone got arrested that person was represented.

Right now various fishing organizations are involved with this. The New York Coalition of Recreational Fishing is going to write a letter to the town and request a meeting, that looks to be the next step. The Coalitions sole existence is to protect fishermans rights and lobby politicians. This organization was started by Montauk Surfcaster Association who has a good track record of fighting for our rights. After that we will need to see what happens, but I would think a demonstration could be in order if needed.

Stormchaser, where do you live ? Are you a member of any of these organizations ? If not, it might be worth it to join LIBBA , MSA or any of the local surf clubs. You might be interested in coming to one of the meetings, let me know.

John

[stormchaser]

John, I live near the back of Jamaica bay, but fish anywhere I think might be good, so I travel to fish a lot. Maybe I came off a little too strong in that post, but I would be willing to be arrested if it was for fishermens rights.

Already heard of LI beach buggy association, but I mostly walk to my spots, no buggy pass. What's the MSA? Any info?

[rpsurf5]

John, I live near the back of Jamaica bay, but fish anywhere I think might be good, so I travel to fish a lot. Maybe I came off a little too strong in that post, but I would be willing to be arrested if it was for fishermens rights.

Already heard of LI beach buggy association, but I mostly walk to my spots, no buggy pass. What's the MSA? Any info?

Dont worry , you definitely did not come off too strong. We need people like you are willing to stand up for our rights.

Even though you dont ride the beach, you should become a member of LIBBA (http://www.libba.com/index1.htm) . They fight for beach access and fishermans rights regardless of whether it is a driving issue or not. Its cheap , It is $25 a year. The number of people in these organizations shows strength and the dues help fund the organization so they can be a healthy club.

MSA is Montauk Surfcaster Association (http://www.surfcasters.org/), they also fight for fishermans rights all over the island.I fish Montauk rarely but I am in this organization because the more people they have, the stronger they are and the louder their voice is. MSA has been very active and successful at fighting for rights over the years.

Join both if you can, it would really help.

I know one of the possible options for this fight is to go to court , money is needed for this , so the more money organizations like MSA have the better.

There is also another organization called The Coalition of Recreational Fishing, this group was formed recently by the leadership of MSA and its sole purpose is to protect fishermans rights and lobby politicians. This group is made up of 12 clubs and fishing organizations under the umbrella of The Coalition.


And of course if you are a kayaker , you can join the Kayak Fishing Association of New York (www.kfa-ny.org). I am in this club and on the board of directors. We have been very active on the Shoreham issue and were also involved with an access issue at CBB. J-Bay is a great place to kayak, you should get a kayak and fish there :)!

John

[stormchaser]

John, I fish the channels back in Inwood, some deep water there, You can see the planes take off when you are fishing. Fish were holding there till about a month ago.

Always wanted to check out a kayak, gives you more access. Maybe next year will be the year. Appreciate those sites, will check them out. In the meantime, appreciate reading about Shoreham because I fish the NS. Let me know if you are getting a group of fishermen together to protest, I'm in.

[rpsurf5]

Willie Young had called Supervisor Foleys office requesting a meeting to speak about this issue. One of the commissioners called Willie back and the bottom line is the town is standing their ground that there is no fishing allowed at Shoreham Beach.

The next steps are an expanded letter writing campaign and also Willie has lined up some people who are willing to go to the beach, fish, get a ticket and fight this in court.

Also, if anyone knows of a lawyer in Brookhaven town who would be good to fight this battle, please let me know. My email address is egoer@aol.com

Stay tuned.

John

[plugcrazy]

"The next steps are an expanded letter writing campaign and also Willie has lined up some people who are willing to go to the beach, fish, get a ticket and fight this in court."

Just saw this thread. I'm in. If you want more letters, I will send one to them. You want people to go and get ticketed, I'm in. Let us know how to help. This is bullcrap, it's gotta be stood up to. Don't mean to hijack this thread, but I learned a lot about the public trust from this. Thanks guys, had no idea, just always assumed they could do what they wanted. :clapping:

[rpsurf5]

"The next steps are an expanded letter writing campaign and also Willie has lined up some people who are willing to go to the beach, fish, get a ticket and fight this in court."

Just saw this thread. I'm in. If you want more letters, I will send one to them. You want people to go and get ticketed, I'm in. Let us know how to help. This is bullcrap, it's gotta be stood up to. Don't mean to hijack this thread, but I learned a lot about the public trust from this. Thanks guys, had no idea, just always assumed they could do what they wanted. :clapping:

Thanks for the support. I sent you an email, please email back. Where do you live ?

[DarkSkies]

rpsurf, I don't have pm priveleges yet, but I'm in too. If you can coordinate this for a day on the weekend, I would like to go and get ticketed. I never fished Shoreham, but there's strength in numbers, and I would like to help. Please e-mail me with the details. Thanks, and great job coordinating this thing, we have the same problems in Monmouth county, NJ.

[rpsurf5]

The New York Coalition of Recreational Fishing had it's bi-monthly meeting tonight and this was a hot topic of conversation. At this point The Coalition is pursuing a possible resolution within some contacts within the town. If this does not bear any fruit, then possible next steps include people getting ticketed and an ensuing court fight as well as possibly a large gathering at the beach by fisherman with print and TV media in attendance.

Stay tuned.....

John

[DarkSkies]

very cool, John. :clapping: I went and fished Ct over the weekend. They have some terrible access isssues up there which made me appreciate what we have in NY and NJ.

It also made me realize that we have to fight for what we have or it will be lost, and we won't get it back.

I'm willing to get ticketed to save NY access. Just let me know, I'm in.

[captnemo]

Nice going on the pressure, rp. I'm really not a surf guy, sometimes yes when we take the family to the beach. I understand the importance of keeping this thing in the limelight. Keep up the good fight.:clapping:

[pinhead44]

Smart move. Try to work it out behind the scenes. If not, we should be prepared to organize.

I'm betting that we'll have to go the protest route. Based upon the earlier comments made by Ms Bonner, it seems she hates fishermen, and wishes we would just go away. But we won't.

[stormchaser]

Nice work, rp. :thumbsup:

[rpsurf5]

Wanted to give everyone an update on this situation.

Since Labor Day , the town has completely closed Shoreham Beach for the season. There is no fishing, no boating, no swimming, the beach is CLOSED. It has never been this way in past years. It seems like the local politicians and residents have taken this one step further in trying to turn public beaches private. Their first attempt at this was thinly veiled by banning fishing by using real or imagined issues. Now it is 100% clear what they are trying to do by closing this beach to everyone.

We can not let this stand.

There is a meeting on September 16th at the VFW Hall in Rocky Point on King Road (2nd right off Broadway from 25A going north) at 7PM. This meeting will be attended by local politician Jane Bonner, various civic associations from the beach area, the Brookhaven Business and Community Alliance and anyone else who wants to attend from the public.

If you care about your rights as a fisherman and taxpayer, whether you fish here or not , please attend this meeting and make yourself heard. We especially need residents from the town to attend. This can be an emotional issue for some, so if you attend the meeting please conduct yourself in a professional, respectful manner. Hopefully the town is willing to work this issue out , if not we will have to move forward with other political and legal options.

If anyone has any questions please PM me.

John

[pinhead44]

Thanks for the update, RP. Don't know anyone who's a homeowner there, but I might be able to attend that meeting. If not, I will tell my friends about it.

Question - you don't recommend a lot of fishermen showing up to show support, if we don't live there? Wouldn't it be a powerful thing if a lot of us showed up?

[rpsurf5]

Everyone from anywhere is encouraged to come , so please come down. Local presence is key though, locals hold more weight then non-locals , especially when it comes to politicians who only understand votes.

Definitely come down whether you live in Brookhaven or not , access issues affect fisherman everywhere, it sets bad precedent if they get away with it and good precedent for fisherman everywhere if we win this battle.

[pinhead44]

bump for brookhaven, meeting is tonight

[DarkSkies]

The meeting finished a while ago. It wasn't as positive as we would have liked, and the "process" is way too slow for my type A personality, but it looks like some progress was made.

Some of the highlights:
(Note: pics will come in the next few days as I get to them, fishin has been too good lately. If anyone has any corrections to what I observed, I would appreciate the help)
:D

LEGAL MUMBO JUMBO AND MANEUVERING:

- The meeting was run by the BBCA, a year old organization formed to address the needs of the businessmen and the residents simultaneously. Joe Kessel is the chair, web address is www.BB-CA.org (http://www.BB-CA.org)

In the beginning, a person from Jane Bonner's office read a copy of a "resolution" that was recently passed. The key things I heard were that the town was in the process of giving fishermen access back, and that there was a discussion of fees for a nighttime parking pass.

I was not clear as to the whole thing, and in anyone could get a copy of that resolution and post it, it would help.

As of now, the gates have been locked since July 4?

Ms. Bonner did not show up. I was surprised, thought she might have taken this opportunity to address some concerns, and maybe help the surf community better understand the pressures she is facing. The BBCA said that she had not planned to show up originally.

It was suggested that one the main issues was an enforcement problem, and people should apply pressure to the town for more consistent enforcement.

Some questions were raised about the original intent to use the beach as a bathing beach with a maximum capacity of 300 in an ordinance passed many years ago. However questions were also raised about why fishermen were allowed to fish that beach all that time contrary to the original ordinance.

There was also a question raised (by me) regarding the Public Trust Doctrine, and if anyone knew if the town could withstand a legal challenge to these constitutionally protected rights.

A diplomatic and reasoned answer given by Joe Kessel was that he was not as versed in those issues as he would like to be, but he understood that in some instances of "public safety concerns" access could be restricted.

This is the same type of end run they are trying to pull on the NJ jetty and MoCo beach access - where they say they can put up restrictions because of the inherent danger of jetty fishing.

However, I believe in this case if it was tried in court, they would lose.

Tackle shop owner Stanley Hentschel, now famous from all the TV and radio interviews he is doing, :HappyWave: presented a very mature voice of reason here. He knew his material, and captivated those listening to him.

He stated that the Public Trust Doctrine has been challenged 5 times in the last 3 years, and the towns that tried to restrict access in violation of these constitutionally protected rights lost in court each time.

I'm thinking that the town is acutely aware that they would lose a Public Trust Doctrine challenge in court. This would also give them flack from other municipalities in LI who would blame them for opening this Pandora's box.

Ultimately, the town will settle with the fishermen, but it's taking too damn long for me, and I don't even fish there!;)

[DarkSkies]

Quality of Life issues:

Although at times emotionally charged, there was a good back and forth between fishermen and residents.

Residents are sick and tired of going to the beach in the morning and seeing the remains of bonfires, beer bottles, and trash. Although some of the trash could have been from careless fishermen, some of the residents agreed that forthe most part the people who may be responsible for the beer bottles and bonfires are the local kids going to the beach at night.

No one likes being blamed for something they didn't do. 98% of guys who fish that place are probably respectful and bring home trash other than their own, because they love to fish there. It's the same in NJ where I live, when the beer bottle and trash issues combined with some bad blitz fishermen behavior to close down some Long Branch areas. All the while, we knew it was the children of some of these residents who were partying and vandalizing, yet we were blamed for some of it.

At least tonight in the VFW Hall, there was a consensus that perhaps they went too far in blaming the fishermen for everything.

[DarkSkies]

Emotional attachment to fishing Shoreham:

There were several very powerful statements from fishermen who have fished that place their whole lives. Some may have seemed agitated, but I felt they spoke from the heart. To hear some of these guys talk about the years they have fished there, and how they feel disrespected, was moving.

Some of these guys are vets, and have served their country admirably. There has to be a way to work this out.

There were also some good points made by Willie Young, MSA president. He stated that there is over 250 miles of shoreline along the North and South shores, yet there are only 14 public access points for fishing.

How fair to the public is that?

[surferman]

DS - Glad to read your report. The more they stall the longer they have to restrict access. Hope it gets resolved soon.

[DarkSkies]

FINAL RESOLUTION:

The meeting ended with a plea for representatives of the fishermen to again come and meet with the town council?

Not sure about this, I thought the original intent of this meeting was to get things resolved tonight?

This type of process is way too slow for me, that's why I'll never run for political office.

Maybe RPSurf could chime in and let me know if he felt there was progress made. The best part was that although people were irritated, the fishermen didn't let it turn into a shouting match. We just want to fish, and don't want the hassles.

But make no mistake about it - about 90 people showed up tonight, people are angry about this. If access is not granted, the town can expect more support from all the web sites and organizations concerned about access. I drove 85 miles to get there. I would do it again. I am willing to be ticketed for tresspassing if the other people there tonight are willing as well.

As someone originally suggested, they do have to address the concerns of the homeowners, but there are ways to do that with greater enforcement and bigger penalties for violations.

They should not address it on the backs of fishermen, or they could end up with a bigger loss than they bargained for in court. I think they know that, hope this can all be worked out without a court fight.

[DarkSkies]

Shoreham Beach Clean Up:

Date: Sat Oct 4,2008

Time: 3-5pm

Location: Shoreham beach

Brookhaven provides gloves and garbage bags


The above clean up was proposed by Eileen R Weilbacher, a local resident.

Joe, in this case, hope it's ok to promote her website, she did organize the cleanup and all?

www.BHealthyNow.com (http://www.BHealthyNow.com) Certified Holistic Health Counselor


It would be nice if some fishermen could join in. Even though we didn't make the mess, it's the right thing to do to keep the residents on your side.

I have access to some restricted areas in MoCo NJ chiefly because I approached some local residents, chatted with them a bit, and asked if I could fish there. Or I would be in a permitted area, and ended up walking across their back frontage on the high tide line, and picked up trash as I went along. Because of that, I have acces to areas today that others may trouble getting to.

It's the same here. Normally, in NJ the fishing clubs organize the spring and fall beach cleanups anyway.

I am sure all you LI guys do more than your share, I'm not questioning that. Just suggesting that it would be in the spirit of good neighbors for some guys to pitch in that day if you can make it. I'm fishing a tournament that day, so I won't be there.

But I hope to be at the next meeting, we can't let this issue fade, or access will be lost like dominoes toppling. That's why I drove 85 miles.

Hope y'all liked my report. A little long winded, :boring: but I didn't want to leave anything out for the guys who couldn't make it. ;) :D

Pics to come later.

[dogfish]

But make no mistake about it - about 90 people showed up tonight, people are angry about this. If access is not granted, the town can expect more support from all the web sites and organizations concerned about access. I drove 85 miles to get there. I would do it again. I am willing to be ticketed for tresspassing if the other people there tonight are willing as well.

As someone originally suggested, they do have to address the concerns of the homeowners, but there are ways to do that with greater enforcement and bigger penalties for violations.

They should not address it on the backs of fishermen, or they could end up with a bigger loss than they bargained for in court. I think they know that, hope this can all be worked out without a court fight.


:clapping::clapping: wtg, Dark, good report, felt like I was there.






Hope y'all liked my report. A little long winded, :boring: but I didn't want to leave anything out for the guys who couldn't make it. ;) :D

Pics to come later.

I'm wondering if ya get paid by the word?;)

[rpsurf5]

Darkskies , thanks for taking the time out and driving such a long distance to go to this meeting , it is greatly appreciated ! Also, thanks for the recap of the meeting. All the letters, emails, phone calls, TV appearance, the fishing organizations supporting this effort really matter. The town obviously is feeling the legal, moral and political pressure. Without the protests from everyone who has contributed to this, left unchallenged they would never restore fishing there. Thanks to everyone who went to the meeting and who has helped support this cause.


I did speak to Stan Hentschel who owns Rocky Point Fishing Stop. Stan has lived , fished and run his business in that area for 30 plus years. He better then anyone knows the area and the situation there with beach access, he has been fighing these issues for years. Stan was very encouraged by this meeting and thinks it went very well. The Brookhaven Business Coalition along with representation of the fishermen and beach associations have a meeting with the town in the beginning of October to resolve the issues. Parks and recreation department, public safety, Jane Bonner, town attorney, etc. willl be present.

I cant stress enough how important it is for us to be organized and stand up for our rights. All of the phone calls, emails , letters, the support of the various fishing organizations has really paid off here.

I did not expect this issue to be resolved quickly , with competing interests , politics, etc, one meeting was not going to solve this. But it seems like we have made great progress. I am hopeful that this will be resolved and fishing restored to Shoreham Beach.

[DarkSkies]

Outside, still :2flip:, didn't forget Hanoi Jane. :clapping:

[DarkSkies]

meeting room

[DarkSkies]

homeowners and surf guys in harmony ;) :thumbsup:

[DarkSkies]

Pete? Maniscalco, good speech about us all being immigrants from one place or another :thumbsup:

[DarkSkies]

Wish I got a chance to meet this guy, he left right as the meeting ended. But he said some powerful things. He's a vet, :clapping: and has fished there his whole life.

Sure he was a little agitated, but his passion for fishing came through in everything he said. You could tell he spoke from the heart.

[DarkSkies]

Stan Hentschel explains a point

[DarkSkies]

BB-CA Board

[DarkSkies]

Linda ______. This lady is the ultimate deal maker. she had an idea to move the access to Rocky Point. Wish I knew the area better, and could be more accurate whether it made sense or not.:don't know why:

But she made a lot of sense, she should run for office.

[DarkSkies]

Guy making a point that enforcement is selective.

[DarkSkies]

Stan Hentschel helping explain something

[DarkSkies]

And we close with the VFW salute to Hanoi Jane :2flip: with the ultimate honor - urinal stickers in the men's room.:ROFLMAO: (little blurry, but the message is clear)


Glad I had to take a leak so I could see that. Freedom isn't free.:clapping:

[bunkerjoe4]

Great job Dark.:clapping: I appreciate you taking the time to drive out there. We all are in this together, because lost access in one location ultimately affects all other locations.

Here's a link to the Public Trust Doctrine for those who have not read it yet.

http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=1044&highlight=public+trust


Keep up the good fight guys. :thumbsup: Don't leave it up to someone else, your beach may be next on the list.

[BassBuddah]

Couldn't make that meeting, glad a lot of guys did. Nice job on the pics and summary, DS.:clapping:

[clamchucker]

Good report, Dark.

[DarkSkies]

Here's the latest from the North Shore Sun. Notice how the town tries to spin the Public Trust Doctrine. I still say they would lose in court. They play a bad poker game.;)



Article in North Shore Sun

There are some comments in here that should raise the blood pressure of any fisherman who reads this.

From the North Shore Sun web site :

New waves in Shoreham Beach feud

Fishermen aren't the only residents upset after town locks gate

By Peggy Spellman Hoey


Sun photo by Peter Blasl Manorville resident Pete Maniscalco said he likes to tap into the spiritual energy of Shoreham Beach. That is why he was disappointed to be locked out of the public beach earlier this month.

SHOREHAM--There's a new angle to the Shoreham Beach access feud, and it involves more than fishermen.
Brookhaven officials again made waves with residents over beach access after closing the front gate at Shoreham Beach Sept. 2, the first day after Labor Day and the end of the bathing season.

When the facility opened in May with new security measures that included a gate, booth, surveillance cameras, and bilingual "no fishing" signs, fisherman were informed they would be presented with an appearance ticket and possibly subject to a fine if they trespassed on the property.

The measures were introduced in response to past problems -- littering, vandalism and vagrancy -- which also impacted on adjacent properties owned by National Grid and the beach property owners' associations. The measures offended some fishermen who believed they had beach access rights that were being infringed upon.

With the latest closing, beachgoers and members of the business community are expressing concern over lack of communication between all the parties involved and are hoping in turn for a solution.

Though not a fisherman, Pete Maniscalco says he normally goes to Shoreham Beach to tap into its spiritual energy through meditation exercises. His plans were cut short recently when he found the front gate closed. When he called the Brookhaven Parks and Recreation Department, Mr. Maniscalco was told the beach was closed because it is "private," he said.

A North Shore Sun reporter who placed a phone call to the department that Tuesday was also told by a staffer that the beach was "kind of a private beach" and that officials were meeting on the issue the next day. Brookhaven officials later said the beach was closed after the bathing season ended then was ordered reopened until the end of September. The suggestion that the beach is considered private was later described as a miscommunication by town officials.

Brookhaven Spokesman Kevin Molloy said the beach will now be open daily from 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. until the end of September. Officials, Mr. Molloy said, are discussing whether the beach, which was kept open until Oct. 7 last season, could be kept open longer. Mr. Molloy dismissed the alleged fishing ban by restating the town code designating the beach a bathing area where fishing is essentially prohibited.

Frequent beachgoer Kathye Marshall also expressed disappointment with the closing. She described the beach as a historical fishing spot shut down only recently to appease some waterfront property owners.

"It's upsetting," she said.

Though the beach has been reopened, Mr. Maniscalco said he has since formed "Friends of Shoreham Beach," a group he hopes will act as both stewards of the beach and an advisory group to the town on any issues that might arise from there.

"You don't close the beach -- that's not a solution," he said. "Let's find a way so everyone's needs can be met and we can all use [Shoreham Beach]."

Brookhaven Councilwoman Jane Bonner welcomed the idea of an advisory group for the beach by pointing out how successful they have been in other areas, such as Mount Sinai Harbor.

"The more people we have that help with our beaches, that's a wonderful thing," she said.

Brookhaven Business and Community Alliance members on Tuesday called for talks between the fishermen, the private property owners that live near Shoreham Beach and town officials, in an effort to reach a resolution of the issue. Some possible solutions raised during the meeting included the return of fishing to Shoreham Beach with added code enforcement and seeking fishing access at its old location on the National Grid property or elsewhere.

In recent weeks, fishermen such as Montauk Surf Casters Association President Willy Young have floated the idea of challenging the ban by taking a ticket and fighting it in court.:clapping:Already, Mr. Young said, some members from his organization have consulted with prominent municipal attorneys on the East End. :clapping:

"I see that down the road," he said.

In the interim, he explained, the group will wait for the outcome of the meeting and possibly pursue a letter-writing campaign to rally politicians to their cause.

"We'll put pressure that way," he added.

Stan Hentschel, owner of the Rocky Point Fishing Stop, said while it is still possible the fishing ban could be challenged in court, it would only be a last resort.

"This is the first time I've ever seen any amount of people coming together," he said.

Dave Raimondo, a resident of Shoridge Hills who was not at the meeting, said the "increasing fishing population both commercial and recreational has placed Shoreham residents and National Grid in a position of having to defend their private property rights and the coastal shoreline in Shoreham on behalf of Brookhaven residents."

"The Town is enforcing the laws on the books and not permitting access for activity on properties they cannot regulate or enforce," he said. "Further, the Town is protecting the environment in trust for the public from overutilization and exploitation."

Aphrodite Motalvo, a spokesperson for the DEC, said most of the beach is owned by LIPA and is accessible for fishing. While fishing is prohibited in the bathing area of the beach, fishermen can walk across the town area to proceed to a nonbathing area to fish, she said.

Assemblyman Marc Alessi said he had received some inquiries about the fishing ban from area residents and plans to meet with officials, including those from the Town and the DEC, to see what can be worked out. In regard to the public trust doctrine, Mr. Alessi, who is an attorney, said it is considered part of English Common Law and is . really open to interpretation by the court, meaning there is really no law upholding its provisions:rolleyes:

"It's actually something that you have to go to court on," he said.

Mr. Alessi acknowledged residents' rights to walk below the mean high water mark along the beach, but also pointed out that the town and other property owners are entitled to restrict activity on their lands as well.

"But I don't think the town is doing anything devious," he added. :ROFLMAO:

Ms. Bonner suggested the fishermen reach out to the private property owners and request permission to fish on their beaches. However, in regard to the town beach, Ms. Bonner said the fishermen would be trespassing should they walk across town property.

"I recognize their frustration in that this seems to be a ban on fishing, but it's meant to enforce a code that is already on our books," Ms. Bonner said.

(and has only recently been enforced against fishermen, selective prosecution)http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.gif

[rpsurf5]

All,

There is a letter writing campaign by the New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing. I have a copy of this letter. If you would like a copy of it to send to the town board, please email me at egoer@aol.com

There was a meeting yesterday with the board of the town with representatives from the local fisherman the The Brookhaven Business and Community Alliance . I am waiting to hear the details of what happened at this meeting, will post something as soon as I do.

John

[rpsurf5]

Here is Stans recap of the meeting :

<<Hi John,

I wish I could be more optimistic, however, I firmly believe the town has no plans to help either the fishermen or beach associations with the enforcement issue, or open Shoreham to fishing. We went to the meeting with all good intentions of the town helping both parties involved with workable solutions to the enforcement and access issues. The only good I saw were the solutions that the property association came up with in order to allow local fishermen to use the beaches. We are both on the same plane with these issues. But, that does not help the other 450,000 tax payers get access to the public domain. I would like to state that I met Dave Ramondo and Chris Calan, both of Shoreham, who were miss represented by various news articles. They are both supportive of the local anglers, but have, like us, issues with the"element" on the beaches that leave garbage and vandalize property. I saw pictures of garbage on the beaches that reminded me of a land fill and lean twos that were built out of trees that were cut down from residents property. They are both articulate and friendly men that have solid, workable solutions to our access problems. I look forward to working with them. It's a shame that the town does not have the initiative that the beach associations have.

John Sinner was nice enough to make time from his schedule to attend the meeting with me. He lives in Riverhead which has a workable solution to parking and access issues. As John was bringing up viable input to some of the problems, Jane Bonner chimes in and insults him. You can only guess how embarrassing that was to me. I have lost all respect for her and will do all I can next election year to have her removed. I feel she showed ignorance and insensitivity to the fishermen. She kept stating that the beach was designated by the town as a non fishing beach and always was. Then start proceedings to make it a fishing beach and access point that does not conflict with swimmers. It seems simple enough to me. The BBCA, fishermen and associations were addressing the issues looking for solutions, but the Town couldn't or did not want to come through. She was very angry about some of the posts on the NESW blog about her, and especially the posting of her address, which I agree was wrong. She also mentioned comments made by "egore" and "tiderunner" that got under her skin. Thank god someone from the town said that her comments had nothing to do about the Shoreham issues and we resumed the meeting in an orderly fashion.

All in all I came away from the meeting disappointed, realizing that there has to be changes made for the wants of the majority of Brookhaven's constituents. This is a terrible administration. If the residents and the fishermen are in agreement why can't the town help with solutions? I always believed in trying to solve problems by intelligent rather than radical means. However, as Willie Young said "let Stan be the nice guy, but it probably won't work" hit home. I realize now that it is like talking to a brick wall. They just don't get it!

Reviewing the blog on the NESW web site, I realize there has been a lot of solid input from passionate people as ourselves, some a little radical or could have been stated in a different way, however, in between the lines, it makes The Town of Brookhaven look like clowns.

"PUBLIC TRUST DOCTRINE" here I come!

Stan
>>

[rpsurf5]

John Skinner, well known fisherman , author and editor for Noreast Magazine provides recap of the meeting :

<<On Friday, October 3rd, I attended a meeting held at Brookhaven Town Hall to address the fishing ban on the Brookhaven Town beaches in the vicinity of the Shoreham Town Beach.
I believe Friday’s meeting was held at the request of the Brookhaven Business Community Alliance (BBCA) leader Joe Kessel, and that request was made after the BBCA’s meeting held in Rocky Point on September 16 in which all in attendance who spoke showed a desire to keep Shoreham Beach open and to allow fishing access. I attended the September 16 meeting. Although I live in Riverhead Town, just past the eastern border of Brookhaven Town, I attended because I wanted to stay informed on the issue so that I could accurately report on it in my surf column. When it became clear that everyone speaking was on the same page and that enforcement of existing laws, especially regarding littering, was a major issue, I spoke to the audience about how Riverhead Town handles the situation. Stan Hentschel, the longtime owner of Rocky Point Fishing Stop, was at the meeting, and felt that the information I had to offer regarding Riverhead Town’s management of their beaches was useful and might be of interest to Brookhaven Town officials. When the October 3rd meeting at Town Hall was organized, Stan invited me to be one of two representatives from the fishing community. I’ve known Stan for 35 years, and would never hesitate to help him, but I expressed to him my concern that I’m not a Brookhaven resident. He indicated that he still wanted me there because he wanted me to share my Riverhead Town beach access management information with the Brookhaven Town officials. I did not ask to be part of the October 3rd meeting, but I agreed to Stan’s request. I have absolutely no interest in fishing any Brookhaven beaches.
In attendance at the meeting, to the best of my recall, were Joe Kessel and Stan representing the Business Alliance. David Raimondo representing the Shoreridge Hills residents, a gentleman representing another group of local residents, an attorney from the Town’s Law Dept, Mr. Morris – the head of the Park’s Dept., a representative from Public Safety (#2 man, I think), Jane Bonner – the Councilwoman for that area, and one of her aides. I was the representative of the fishing interests. Another fisherman was supposed to be there but couldn’t make it due to a family illness. Although Stan was there as a Business Alliance representative, I think we can picture him with two hats and consider him as a second fishing representative.
The meeting started with Stan detailing the tens of thousands of dollars the loss of beach access has cost his business. I then offered the following information regarding how Riverhead deals with beach access.
Since the elimination of fishing access in eastern Brookhaven Town, many people seeking to fish have moved onto the Riverhead beaches, and this includes the large immigrant population that was cited in both meetings as being responsible for the majority of the litter that resulted in the loss of beach access. They come by the vanload – entire families from numerous townships. How does Riverhead respond? They let them and everyone else fish. If you’re a resident, $15 for a beach lot permit and a free night fishing permit will get you 24/7/365 access to Riverhead’s roughly 15 miles of beaches from 8 access points. If you’re a non-resident, there are two options. You can buy a $200 parking permit that will cover you for the year. I see many of those in the beach lots. You can also buy a $35 daily permit. Although that sounds expensive to me, I see a lot of those too. To facilitate access, Riverhead Town makes beach-parking permits available at places such as tackle shops and delis. So the policy helps local businesses by generating some foot traffic in the stores. Contrast this with Brookhaven’s policy that costs Stan tens of thousands of dollars. So how does Riverhead deal with all of those people that now have legal access to the beach? – simple – they enforce the laws by having a police officer on an ATV ride the beach from border to border. When people who may be predisposed to doing something illegal, like littering, see a uniform and a badge, their behavior changes. If you park in a beach lot without a permit, expect a $100 ticket on your windshield. How do they allow 24-hour beach parking without the lots becoming partying hangouts – simple again – if you don’t have a night fishing permit and you’re doing something other than fishing – you get a $100 ticket too. Between all of those $100 tickets, $200 seasonal non-resident passes, $35 non-resident day passes, and $15 resident passes, Riverhead Town collects a substantial amount of money that can then support the cop on the ATV. Nobody is trying to split an atom here. This is a common sense approach to beach access management, and it works even with the addition of displaced people from Brookhaven. My question to the Brookhaven officials was “Tell me why you can’t do something like this?”
Sadly, I saw little interest on behalf of the Brookhaven Town officials in pursuing such an approach. There were many excuses. Here are a few. “Brookhaven Public Safety only has jurisdiction in the parks themselves, and not outside the park boundaries”, “we don’t have the money”, “we don’t have the staff”, “the beaches outside the park are the responsibility of County police”, “how will we get the ATVs on the beach?”, “we can’t ride the ATVs on people’s private beaches”, “our beaches are geologically different than Riverhead’s” (by this the person was referring to bluffs and jetties, just like we have in Riverhead).
I urged taking a higher-level view of the issue and consider the entire 15-mile stretch of Brookhaven North Shore frontage instead of focusing on just Shoreham. But heard back “all of those other places are private”.
At the September 16 meeting, a lady brought up the possibility of the Town using some land it owns in Rocky Point (old Pickwick Property?) to provide fishing access. Everyone at that meting thought that was an excellent suggestion. When Stan brought that up at Friday’s meeting, Jane Bonner acknowledged the Town land there, but said, “there’s no beach access there”. To which Stan replied, “Then make some”. To which Bonner responded “But the Tides are right next to there!” (The Tides is another beachfront residential community).
That exchange was a good representation of Bonner’s attitude that the beaches are private property, and that even allowing fishing access across Town-owned land in the vicinity of residential beach communities is unacceptable. The word “private” was spoken by her many times in the meeting. She said fishermen should be asking private property owners for fishing access, as she did in this quote from an article in the September 19th North Shore Sun, “Ms. Bonner suggested the fishermen reach out to private property owners and request permission to fish on their beaches…Ms. Bonner said the fishermen would be trespassing should they walk across town property.”
At one point during the meeting, Jane Bonner said (referring to me) that my presence at the meeting made her uncomfortable and that she found me to be “confrontational”. Yes, I confronted them with one township’s solution, but was told that Brookhaven’s situation is “unique”. When Bonner complained that someone on an online forum called her a criminal, I quickly pointed to her quote in the Sun where she said fishermen on Town property were trespassing. When she shot down Stan’s request for access through the Pickwick property because it was next to the Tides, I blurted out “That’s irrelevant!”
It is irrelevant. I told them that when I stand on a beach below the high water mark and look along the shoreline, all I see is beach. I don’t give a damn who owns the property on the top of the bluff. I fish, kayak, scuba dive, and skin dive all along the beaches from Wading River to Orient Point without ever having to think about whose beach I’m on, because I know whose beach I’m on, OUR BEACH!
She may call me confrontational, but as long as I have a pulse, I’m not going to sit politely and quietly and be told that I have to ask permission of shorefront property owners to do what I love and have grown up doing.
A few other points. They didn’t want to talk about the Public Trust Doctrine, and were generally dismissive of it. Through all of this, no one has yet to tell me precisely which Brookhaven Town code will be violated should you park legally at the Shoreham Town Beach, walk below the high water mark beyond the park boundary, and then go fishing. I think there is going to be a closed meeting among Brookhaven officials regarding beach access and then another similar to what we just had, but I’m not positive on that.
After meeting the beachfront community representatives, it’s clear to me that they are not our problem. I’ve read numerous letters from Mr. Raimondo to the local papers that made him sound like an enemy to the fishermen. I don’t feel this way at all after meeting him. The most positive aspect of this meeting came after the meeting broke up and Stan, Raimondo, myself, and the other property association representative (sorry, can’t remember the name) spoke amongst ourselves. These people don’t seem to care if there are local surfcasters on the beaches. Their issue is with the very large number of immigrants trashing their beaches. They had many pictures, and they told us they begged the Town for help enforcing the litter laws. Please refrain from bashing any of the residents on the discussion boards. What you write on these boards is read by Bonner. Bonner mentioned Tom Farrel’s name several times. Both resident representatives knew I had written a book about surf fishing, so I guess they were on the boards too.
I’ve done what Stan asked me to do – I presented Brookhaven Town officials with a solution that works in neighboring Riverhead Town. My position is that the taxpayers of Brookhaven Town are entitled to 24/7/365 access to their beaches. Even if the Town restricted that access to only its residents and didn’t offer non-resident access, I would feel that these efforts have been successful. Unfortunately, I don’t see that kind of access as a possibility in the current Brookhaven Town political climate. It’s time for a Brookhaven resident to take my place at any further meetings. Something on a small scale may be able to be worked out that will benefit a few local casters. I thank God I don’t live in Brookhaven Town.

>>

[pinhead44]

Here is Stans recap of the meeting :

<<Hi John,

I wish I could be more optimistic, however, I firmly believe the town has no plans to help either the fishermen or beach associations with the enforcement issue, or open Shoreham to fishing. We went to the meeting with all good intentions of the town helping both parties involved with workable solutions to the enforcement and access issues. The only good I saw were the solutions that the property association came up with in order to allow local fishermen to use the beaches. We are both on the same plane with these issues. But, that does not help the other 450,000 tax payers get access to the public domain. I would like to state that I met Dave Ramondo and Chris Calan, both of Shoreham, who were miss represented by various news articles. They are both supportive of the local anglers, but have, like us, issues with the"element" on the beaches that leave garbage and vandalize property. I saw pictures of garbage on the beaches that reminded me of a land fill and lean twos that were built out of trees that were cut down from residents property. They are both articulate and friendly men that have solid, workable solutions to our access problems. I look forward to working with them. It's a shame that the town does not have the initiative that the beach associations have.

John Sinner was nice enough to make time from his schedule to attend the meeting with me. He lives in Riverhead which has a workable solution to parking and access issues. As John was bringing up viable input to some of the problems, Jane Bonner chimes in and insults him. You can only guess how embarrassing that was to me. I have lost all respect for her and will do all I can next election year to have her removed. I feel she showed ignorance and insensitivity to the fishermen. She kept stating that the beach was designated by the town as a non fishing beach and always was. Then start proceedings to make it a fishing beach and access point that does not conflict with swimmers. It seems simple enough to me. The BBCA, fishermen and associations were addressing the issues looking for solutions, but the Town couldn't or did not want to come through. She was very angry about some of the posts on the NESW blog about her, and especially the posting of her address, which I agree was wrong. She also mentioned comments made by "egore" and "tiderunner" that got under her skin. Thank god someone from the town said that her comments had nothing to do about the Shoreham issues and we resumed the meeting in an orderly fashion.

All in all I came away from the meeting disappointed, realizing that there has to be changes made for the wants of the majority of Brookhaven's constituents. This is a terrible administration. If the residents and the fishermen are in agreement why can't the town help with solutions? I always believed in trying to solve problems by intelligent rather than radical means. However, as Willie Young said "let Stan be the nice guy, but it probably won't work" hit home. I realize now that it is like talking to a brick wall. They just don't get it!

Reviewing the blog on the NESW web site, I realize there has been a lot of solid input from passionate people as ourselves, some a little radical or could have been stated in a different way, however, in between the lines, it makes The Town of Brookhaven look like clowns.

"PUBLIC TRUST DOCTRINE" here I come!

Stan
>>

This sucks, real lousy news. The meeting that darkskies reported on, it said Jane Bonner didn't show up? What an arrogant, smug, condescending *****! Looks like more aggressive action is needed?

[BassBuddah]

This is lame, sounds like they were feeding us BS all along.:burn: RP, you should get a bunch of guys together, go up there, and go fishing under the mean high tide line, let them ticket you, and go to court. Time for some serious show of strength, the meetings don't seem to be cutting it.

[rpsurf5]

If you live in and/or fish the Town of Brookhaven, we need you to sign the petition put together by the New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing at :

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/shorehamban/

Please spread the word and have your friends and neighbors sign this also, regardless of whether they fish or not. Everyone pays high taxes for access to parks and beaches, you are being denied access to a resource you pay for.

Stand up and be counted , please sign at :

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/shorehamban/

Thanks,
John

[stormchaser]

I went and signed that petition, John, wish all the members here could see their way to sign it. Sounds like the town officials are playing games with you fishermen, and you have given them nothing but respect in return.

Seems like one logical step would be to make sure that Foley and Ms prima donna Bonner are campaigned against in the election.

We need to make sure they lose, and their loss comes as a direct result of their elitism and apathy towards fishermen.

[stripercrazy]

I signed it too, seems like all the town has is lame excuse after lame excuse.http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.gif

Here's my slogan for the next election to NOT get Bonner elected:

"Bonner is Bourgeouis. Do you want an elitist to represent you, or do you want real people?
Dump Bonner the Bourgeouis! Elect ______, a representative of REAL people.:)"

[bunkerjoe4]

Here's one of the petitions that is circulating. I edited it, made some grammatical corrections, and added a few lines about the Public Trust Doctrine.

Feel free to C&P and send it out. Remember folks, even if you don't fish in Long Island, or the Town of Brookhaven, this issue could potentially affect you down the road as more towns decide to make excuses for violating our Constitutionally protected Access rights.

Thank you to all who take the time to fill this out and send it in. :clapping: The great turnout at the original meeting was a very positive sign of our strength. However, we need to keep up the level of interest!

Although there is a lot of anger out there at the empty words of the council members, please make every effort to NOT direct your anger at MS Bonner, or write anything that could be mis-construed as unprofessional or representative of fishermen as a group.

If you have anger at Ms Bonner, the time to draw on that is during the elections when all citizens are entitled to campaign for and vote for her opponent. That's how democracy works.:)

We really need to overwhelm them with responses, or we will not be taken seriously.


-----------------------------------



[Date Here]

Brain X. Foley Supervisor
Steve Fiore Councilman
Jane Bonner Councilwoman
Kathleen Walsh Councilwoman
Connie Kepert Councilwoman
Timothy P. Mazzei Councilman
Keith Romaine Councilman


Town Board of Brookhaven
1 Independence Hill
Farmingville, N.Y. 11738

Dear Town Board Members:

The Town of Brookhaven has 153 miles of coastline and a population of 448,519, with only 14 areas to go fishing legally.

Recreational fishing is the number 1 pastime in the United States.

Saltwater anglers are estimated at 10 million individuals in the United States. Salt and freshwater fishing combined add over $60 billion to the U.S. economy.

Many town residents find walking along the beach and fishing one of their favorite pastimes as it is affordable and beneficial to their quality of life.

Yet one board member in their zeal to benefit a few, has made a public statement that anyone going fishing through Shoreham Town Park property would be treated as a criminal.

Why has the Town closed Shoreham Park on September 1/08 to all users? This clearly benefits a few at the expense of many residents.

As a fisherman and a voter, I find the fishing policies of this board to be repressive. I feel their purpose is put into effect to benefit a few wealthy shore front home owners, so they may have their own private beach.

This action by the town also violates the Public Trust Doctrine, which simplistically stated guarantees the right of all Americans access to all outside riparian waters up to the mean high tide line. I ask you to reconsider your actions here, partly because you are violating the Constitutional rights of any fishermen you deny access to.


Moreover, if this was challenged in a court of law, it could set a very dangerous precedent for the rest of the towns and boroughs in Long Island, as one by one they were forced to grant access under this Doctrine.

According to some sources, challenges to the Public Trust Doctrine have been successfully upheld in court procedings in the last 5 years. Most of the fishermen plaintiffs who have put forth these cases have prevailed.

Here is a link to further reading on the Public Trust Doctrine:
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=1044&highlight=public+trust+doctrine

I encourage you to have your legal staff review the liability and expenses of the town fighting a Constitutionally mandated principle. How much better it would be to create a reasonable settlement with these fishermen, and save the town the embarrassment of possibly losing a landmark case.

All we want is the reasonable access we are guaranteed under the Constitution. Thank you for your time in reading this.

Please make no mistake about these petitions. We are tired of being patronized, and are prepared to marshall whatever resources necessary, through voting in the elections to oust members who have disregarded these rights, or taking the town to court to ask for enforcement of our Constitutional rights in a Federal forum.

We will stand together as voters, citizens, fishermen, and respected contributors to the community to ensure our Constitutional rights are no longer being trampled on.



Sincerely,



--------------------------------

[stormchaser]

Very well written, bunkerjoe. :clapping: I signed the other one, but like what you say about the Public Trust. have to learn more about it. I'll send this one in too, pass it on to my buddies.

[bunkerjoe4]

I'm putting the link up again for the Public Trust Doctrine. Some of our members have been researching pertinent cases and putting up the results, in case anyone up there was considering a lawsuit against the town.

I can't get into specifics, but as site administrator I can tell you that some gov't entities have been visiting as guests, and reviewing that thread.

I believe some of the resources being offered here could be used to commence a Public Trust case against the town of Brookhaven. It would be unwise for them to try to defend a case of this magnitude because of the potential ancillary consequences.

I hope someone is mad enough to get this started, as it seems like the town is stalling.

Here is the link, feel free to cite anything you read here, in part or its entirety:

http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=1044

[rpsurf5]

I'm putting the link up again for the Public Trust Doctrine. Some of our members have been researching pertinent cases and putting up the results, in case anyone up there was considering a lawsuit against the town.

I can't get into specifics, but as site administrator I can tell you that some gov't entities have been visiting as guests, and reviewing that thread.

I believe some of the resources being offered here could be used to commence a Public Trust case against the town of Brookhaven. It would be unwise for them to try to defend a case of this magnitude because of the potential ancillary consequences.

I hope someone is mad enough to get this started, as it seems like the town is stalling.

Here is the link, feel free to cite anything you read here, in part or its entirety:

http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=1044


Bunkerjoe,

Thanks for posting this. Legal action is certainly on the table.

Here are some other relevant links. Seems Jersey , CT and Rhode Island all actively promote access through public trust doctrine. Even New York State has info on PTD on its web site . I dont know why the Town of Brookhaven feels they are immune to the laws of the United States of America.

Here are the links :

http://www.nyswaterfronts.com/waterfront_public_trust.asp

http://www.crmc.state.ri.us/presentations/presentations/Putting_PTD_Work_RI.ppt


http://www.ct.gov/dep/cwp/view.asp?a=2705&q=323792&depNav_GID=1635

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/cmp/access/public_access_handbook.pdf

[surferman]

rpsurf - Maybe you could get some free legal help from:

http://www.probono.net/ny/

[rpsurf5]

835 signatures and counting. We need more , if you have not signed this yet , please do.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/shorehamban/

Please spread the word and have your friends and neighbors sign this also, regardless of whether they fish or not. Everyone pays high taxes for access to parks and beaches, you are being denied access to a resource you pay for.

Stand up and be counted , please sign at :

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/shorehamban/

Thanks,
John

[bunkerjoe4]

Bump to the top. This is important, folks. The next place that may be closed could be your favorite fishing place.

[rpsurf5]

All,

Just wanted to let everyone know the New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing, other groups and individuals are still working on this issue.

Stay tuned ....

John

[surferman]

Thanks, rpsurf. I was just talking to a good friend of mine the other day about this. Appreciate the update.

[nitestrikes]

Thanks

[BassBuddah]

Thanks for the update.

Bump for the petition.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/shorehamban/

[strikezone31]

thanks RP

[crosseyedbass]

Thanks for the update.

Bump for the petition.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/shorehamban/

I signed it, keep up the good work, rp. :thumbsup:

[rpsurf5]

Interesting article in Newsday today. Too bad the Town Board has banned fishing at Shoreham Beach in spite of the law and PTD.

Stay tuned ....

<<Newsday 2/22/09


NEWSDAY Feb 22 2009

Michael R. Ebert
February 22, 2009

At Cedar Beach in Mount Sinai, there is a playground and nearby is a sign that reads "private beach ahead." I have heard mothers scold children who crossed that apparent property line, but I believe that either the state or the Town of Brookhaven owns the beach within a few feet of the high tide mark and anyone can stroll the beach within that parameter. Can you check the law?

- Barbara Ludwig-Cull, Port Jefferson Station

OUR reader is correct. In New York State, the public may walk along underwater lands and the "foreshore" - the stretch of beach subject to the ebb and flow of the tides - of privately owned beaches without penalty.

The principle is outlined in the Public Trust Doctrine, a common-law legal precedent that says states hold legal title to lands under tidewater and to navigable waterways in trust for the public's benefit.

"It's actually an issue that comes up a lot," said Steven Resler, a coastal resource specialist for the Department of State's coastal management program. "Traditionally, the 'seaweed line' has been interpreted as the boundary between private property and public trust lands."

According to the law, when the foreshore is covered by the tides the public may use the water for "boating, bathing, fishing, recreation and other lawful purposes," Resler said. When the tide is out, the public may pass and repass over the foreshore as a means of access to reach the water for these purposes, and may also lounge and recline on foreshore lands.

At Cedar Beach, the Crest Hollow Beach Owners Association owns the "upland" - the stretch of beach above the seaweed line - but the public has the right to "traverse the foreshore," Resler said.

Town spokesman Kevin Molloy said similar privately owned beaches exist in Mastic Beach and Rocky Point.
>>
>>

[DarkSkies]

:clapping: Good post RP. Our rights seem to mean less and less these days.

[rockhopper]

We need to keep sticking up for our rights. Don't let "other people" do all the work it's important to get involved.

[nitestrikes]

It's good that it is still in the news, and not pushed to the side. We all have to stand up for what is right.

[rpsurf5]

I sent the below letter to two of the local papers, The North Shore Sun printed it in todays edition and it is also in The Times Beacon Record. Both papers censored it a bit in a different way. They took out this section:

<<The areas and nation’s economy has crumbled underneath the feet of the politicians who are elected to lead this area and country. Every day the politicians reach into our pockets one more time to help bail out another company and add more to the government that has already failed us. We pay tremendously high taxes to live in Brookhaven Town and Long Island to use such resources as parks and beaches. Yet as our jobs are lost, as our 401ks disappear, one of the things we enjoy most, a day on the beach with our fellow fisherman and children has been taken away from us by the Town of Brookhaven Town Board. >>


Here is the whole letter I wrote :

<<As the winter starts coming to an end, fisherman across Brookhaven Town and Long Island ready themselves for the upcoming fishing season at the area beaches. Fisherman have been fishing at Shoreham beach for years, but because of the fishing ban instituted last year at the Town of Brookhaven Shoreham Beach by the Town Board, as it stands now , people will not be fishing there this year. In spite of thousands of letters, emails, phone calls, efforts from fishing organizations, swimming organizations, local business groups and meetings with members of the Brookhaven town board, the town board still has not lifted the fishing ban at Shoreham Beach.

The Public Trust Doctrine guarantees people their rights to the beaches. The ban of fishing at Shoreham Beach violates the Public Trust Doctrine. New York State recognizes the PTD and promotes beach access in New York. New Jersey, Connecticut and other states also recognize this and have programs to promote access to the beaches via the Public Trust Doctrine. Why does the Town of Brookhaven not recognize the Public Trust Doctrine? With the economy in dire straits, do the residents of Brookhaven want the town to use their hard earned tax dollars to fight a legal battle over the rights of people to access Shoreham Beach? The town could be spending taxpayers own money to keep them off the beaches they pay taxes for!

As businesses across Long Island suffer, local businesses suffer also due to this fishing ban. Rocky Point Fishing Stop has been a responsible business in Rocky Point for 35 years, surviving a fire, reduced beach access and down swings in the economy. Now as their business suffers due to this fishing ban at Shoreham Beach, they contemplate going out of business or moving out of the town of Brookhaven. Employees at Rocky Point Fishing Stop are losing their jobs or are having their hours reduced. I thought the current movement in the country is to create jobs and stimulate the economy, not run responsible businesses out of business or out of town.

The people who use the beaches and live in the area deserve clean, trouble free beaches. If there are people who are not using the beaches responsibly and breaking the law, then I am all for enforcing the laws and penalizing the offenders. But to single out fisherman and ban fishing at these beaches is analogous to banning driving because some people are speeding or running red lights. Brookhaven Town recently used tax payer money to hire Park Rangers. If there are law enforcement issues at Shoreham Beach, assign the officers to this beach to enforce the laws.

The areas and nation’s economy has crumbled underneath the feet of the politicians who are elected to lead this area and country. Every day the politicians reach into our pockets one more time to help bail out another company and add more to the government that has already failed us. We pay tremendously high taxes to live in Brookhaven Town and Long Island to use such resources as parks and beaches. Yet as our jobs are lost, as our 401ks disappear, one of the things we enjoy most, a day on the beach with our fellow fisherman and children has been taken away from us by the Town of Brookhaven Town Board.

This ban cannot be allowed to stand. Fisherman and non-fisherman alike who live in such places as Shoreham, Rocky Point, all of Brookhaven town, Long Island and beyond are standing up for their rights and will continue to fight until the ban is lifted. Hopefully the politicians soon realize the wants and rights of their constituents and lift this ban.

John Russell
Long Island, New York>>

[DarkSkies]

I sent the below letter to two of the local papers, The North Shore Sun printed it in todays edition and it is also in The Times Beacon Record. Both papers censored it a bit in a different way. They took out this section:

<<The areas and nation’s economy has crumbled underneath the feet of the politicians who are elected to lead this area and country. Every day the politicians reach into our pockets one more time to help bail out another company and add more to the government that has already failed us. We pay tremendously high taxes to live in Brookhaven Town and Long Island to use such resources as parks and beaches. Yet as our jobs are lost, as our 401ks disappear, one of the things we enjoy most, a day on the beach with our fellow fisherman and children has been taken away from us by the Town of Brookhaven Town Board. >>




I bet one of the lawyers or editors had them take that out, or they deemed it too inflammatory. I found that the most emphatic part of your letter, but papers always censor anyway for "space" reasons.What is it we hear all the time about newspapers championing freedom of speech? It's interesting that both papers didn't like that part. :rolleyes:


That was a well thought and written letter, John. There's anger and passion about not fishing there, I saw that when I went up there to that meeting. The property owners up there don't care about any of that. But people will pay attention to a well thought-out and clearly written letter.

It may not move mountains, but it's enough to sway some public opinion and maybe get some more people involved in supporting this. Fantastic letter, great job keepin it in the spotlight, man. :clapping::clapping:

[BassBuddah]

Very nice, RP.:clapping::clapping:

[stripercrazy]

:clapping::clapping::clapping: Way to go, John!

[nitestrikes]

:thumbsup:for RP, great letter.

[williehookem]

That is an amazing letter. Let's hope now more people will listen.

[rpsurf5]

Mark Lesko and Tim Mazzei will be guest speakers at the Next Meeting of the Rocky Point Civic Association. The meeting is March 5 @ 7:30 p.m. at the VFW Hall and open to public.

These are the two candidates for the Special Election on March 31, 2009 for Brookhaven Town Supervisor.

If you are a Brookhaven resident, try to attend the meeting and have your voice heard.

[7deadlyplugs]

Mark Lesko and Tim Mazzei will be guest speakers at the Next Meeting of the Rocky Point Civic Association. The meeting is March 5 @ 7:30 p.m. at the VFW Hall and open to public.

These are the two candidates for the Special Election on March 31, 2009 for Brookhaven Town Supervisor.

If you are a Brookhaven resident, try to attend the meeting and have your voice heard.

bump for a good cause, the meeting is tonite. rpsurf that was a great letter you wrote. Now we need some action on this. :clapping::clapping:

[eisey]

It was good to actually see Jane Bonner. She was really getting upset. She said she is trying to work out a solution, but I still enjoyed giving her my two cents. Good to see you BassBudda, Rpsurf, Frankiesurf, DarkSkies. I would guess about half the people who showed up were fishermen

[rpsurf5]

Great work guys, I couldnt make it , but Tom Farrel who is the secretary for the New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing was there and spoke. He filled me in on all the details.

Jane Bonner is trying to cover her butt, she is not working on a solution, the only solution she understands is the possibility of her getting voted out of office.

Almost 1/2 the people there were fisherman, that is awesome !!

The next one of these meetings is March 18th in Shoreham. We really need to push hard to have a strong turnout. Lets make 75% of the people there be fisherman. When I found out exactly where, will let everyone know.

[DarkSkies]

Meeting notes:

It was great to see all the fishing support. About 50 people total, maybe 20 of them fishermen. I sat at a table with Eisey and Frankiesurf, good to meet you guys. :HappyWave: Also got a chance to meet Tom Farrell of the NYCRF, and some of the other fishermen.

Mark Lesko and Tim Mazzei introduced themselves, and spoke of their goals. When it came time for questions, Eisey asked Mark Lesko, who has a background as a US attorney, what his position was on the Access and Public trust issues for Shoreham.

Mr Lesko
5445
Mr Mazzei
5446

I feel that Mr Lesko didn't answer the question directly but danced around it instead. As an attorney, I felt he should have anticipated he would be asked a question about the Public Trust and could have given a more direct answer as to his position.To his credit, Mr Lesko did say he was meeting with the NYCRF group next week and will look at all the options.

There was a similar scenario with Mr. Mazzei. He did make a joke about fishing a long time ago, to break the ice. Another fisherman asked him about his position, and I didn't feel a direct answer was given either. However, he did say he would try and work something out.

I hope they can actually do this, as the election is March 31, and voters need time to make up their minds.

[DarkSkies]

It was good to hear the concerns of the residents other than the issues they have had with fishing. For the most part, I seemed to hear complaints about littering and litter as a main concern.

This ties in with the way the conditions at the beach were described, with "a large amount of used condoms" broken beer bottles, pieces of burned wood, and bare fishhooks, being among their concerns. Anyone with kids knows the first three things probably were generated by the local children hanging out down there.

Something should be done to stop blaming those things on the fishermen, it's beginning to sound like a broken record already.http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon3.gif

[rpsurf5]

Just some clarifications, Tom is with the New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing, not the RFA. Also, at the meeting Lesko agreed to meet , not Mazzei.

Thanks for the report and for making the long trip to support the cause !!!

[DarkSkies]

OK, John, I edited it thanks, I was a little fuzzy at 2am when I first started to write this down. :embarassed::D



At the end of the meeting, they opened up the floor for a few minutes for questions from fishermen. Here are some of the questions and answers. The quotes may not be verbatim, I was writing as fast as I could to take notes. :D Anyone has any different recollections or corrections, please let me know and I'll edit. :HappyWave:



Tom Farrell:
I found him to be a very effective speaker. He was upset that access has not been permitted yet, but he conducted himself professionally, and did not back down from his position.

He said "The US recreational fishing industry generates $60 billion in Revenues every year..The north Shore has approximatly 150 miles of shoreline, yet access in only 14 points...it's sad to see Stan Hentschel's business suffering, and fishermen are forced to go to Riverhead to fish. We fishermen have been treated badly, and we will not stand for it anymore!" :clapping:


Jerry Wilson: " I am 72 years old, a retired vet, and I only want a place to fish. I fill a garbage bag with other peoples trash every time I go there to fish, and take it out with me. We are being penalized by the behavior of some jerks who make a bad name for everyone.
Also, there is no way for a handicapped person to fish the beach. When the access was closed, the people in charge told me to go to the pier to fish. As a fisherman, I can tell you that the fish don't know they are ONLY supposed to let us catch them at the pier!!!!!"" :laugh: :thumbsup:

Guy at table in front of us, addressed to Tom Mazzei:
"Will you look into increased access if elected?"
Mr Mazzei: "Yes I will look at that, in coordination with Jane Bonner."

This bought groans from the fishermen there, as we all seem to have heard that story before, over and over, with little in the way of results.

Tom Farrell asking a question
5447

Eisey asking a question
5448

Jerry Wilson asking a question
5449

[Tom Farrell]

Thank you Darkskies for making your trip all the way out to long Island for the meeting last night. Thank you to everyone else as well. I realize everyone has a busy life and it is difficult to make time for these meetings.

As already by rpsurf5 I am not with the RFA I am a board member of the New York Coalition of Recreational Fishing. I was able to directly speak to Mr. Lesko last evening however I was not offered the opportunity to speak to Mr. Mazzei while he had the floor. One thing I really liked about Mr. Lesko is that he acknowledged to being personal friends with a key member of the NYCRF and that he looks forward to a sitting down and meeting with us. It was especially nice that Miss Bonner got to hear this up close and personal. She did not look to pleased. In fact when she was speaking she was showing that it was quite personal and became extremely emotional. She kept claiming that she is not to blame and tried to pass the buck often. She referred to Suffolk County quite often. However when an angler directly asked her "if she is not to blame then who should they contact at teh county". She clearly stated she did not want anyone to contact anyone else in this matter. She stated that it is her problem and she will resolve it. In my opinion it is quite clear that the letter writing campaign is working and she does not want to look like a fool with her superiors. That is why she does not want any more people to know. So I suggest to all of you to keep on writing, calling and emailing everyone regrding this issue. For if the Town of Brookhaven gets away with this violation of our rights it will spread like an infectious disease everywhere. We can not let them discriminate against fisherman any longer.

So you all know I was able to personally hand deliver Mr. Mazzei and Mr. Lesko a letter and a questionnaire in regards to there stance on recreational fishing within the Town of Brookhaven. The results of their replies will be published in the Long Island Fisherman and also in the North Shore Sun.

I will post much more soon. I did earlier and for some reason errors popeed up and zapped it all out.

Thank you all for your support.

Tight Lines,

Tom Farrell
New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing
Secretary

http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/misc/progress.gif

[DarkSkies]

One thing I really liked about Mr. Lesko is that he acknowledged to being personal friends with a key member of the NYCRF and that he looks forward to a sitting down and meeting with us. It was especially nice that Miss Bonner got to hear this up close and personal. She did not look to pleased. In fact when she was speaking she was showing that it was quite personal and became extremely emotional. She kept claiming that she is not to blame and tried to pass the buck often. She referred to Suffolk County quite often. However when an angler directly asked her "if she is not to blame then who should they contact at teh county". She clearly stated she did not want anyone to contact anyone else in this matter. She stated that it is her problem and she will resolve it. In my opinion it is quite clear that the letter writing campaign is working and she does not want to look like a fool with her superiors. That is why she does not want any more people to know. So I suggest to all of you to keep on writing, calling and emailing everyone regrding this issue. For if the Town of Brookhaven gets away with this violation of our rights it will spread like an infectious disease everywhere. We can not let them discriminate against fisherman any longer.

Thank you all for your support.

Tight Lines,

Tom Farrell
New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing
Secretary


http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/misc/progress.gif



:clapping:Great job there, Tom, you said it better than I could have, and in a lot less words. ;)

I feel the best part of that meeting was the end where a gentleman asked if there were any fishermen that had questions, and they spent about 15 minutes addressing them. I agree with what you said about Ms Bonner. If she is an elected official, she is rsponsible to all constituents, which includes fishermen.

There were a lot of good comments made about moving forward and resolving this, and unfortunately as you said it seemed there was some passing of the blame as well.

The way I heard it at the meeting, officials were trying to use the statute that designates "bathing only, no fishing or boating" to apply to Shoreham beach. I thought that was kind of lame. This statute only came to light when there became an issue of closing the beach. Prior to that it was never enforced.

There are many laws on the books that are never enforced because they have outlived the original purpose, or were too restrictive when they were created. In some places, having sex with your wife on Sundays, or having oral sex, is illegal. Of course these are never enforced.

In the same way, the archaic Shoreham/Suffolk law restricting boating and fishing from that beach could be changed or repealed by motivated legislators who are elected by us, their constituents.

Using the law as a scapegoat for the real underlying reasons, and saying "My hands are tied" is not the answer.

I really hope you make headway when you meet with them. I applaud that you gave them written questionaires for their positions. That way the positions are out there for everyone to examine, and that's how government should be.

[DarkSkies]

There was a decent amount of time allotted at the end to fishermen asking questions. Jane Bonner responded. It was the first time I had seen her in public. Honestly, I had a poor opinion of her because of the buck passing that seemed to be happening. I have been to 3 meetings up there already, and it doesn't seem like much is getting done.

Some of her comments:

On litter:
"One of the main concerns was litter. There were many used condoms, broken beer bottles, and fishing hooks. People were living on the beach and sleeping on the bluffs."

On the "no fishing or boating" legacy statute on the books:
"This came about because we had problems there. The Law Dept, Parks Dept, & Town Supervisors Dept is responsible for the research, not me. I was left with no choice. If you think I made that decision lightly, you are wrong!"

On the Public Trust Doctrine:
"You are not stopped from gtting on the beach at the high tide mark, but you can be denied access in the areas where this touches the private property of property owners. The law is shades of grey. There are attorneys who will argue this on both sides"

On resolving Access for fishermen:
" I have spoken with Stan Hentschel, John Skinner, and several others in trying to resolve this. I realize you are all being restricted. I am not a fishing person, but my brother, sister, and father are. You have my committment on that that I am trying to resolve this in a peaceful manner."


Tom, RP, and any others who may be skeptical as to the actual progress made by Ms Bonner resolving this: I'm still skeptical, but am glad that she got up there and spoke. It was the first time I have seen her address fishermen publically. I remember the other meeting when there were over 75 fishermen in that same hall, and she did not show up.

I asked her about this, and she said she wasn't invited. I can't say whether this is true or not, but at least she faced us last night. That's what elected officials are supposed to do, no matter how unpleasant the task.














On a more serious note, Tom and others may have noticed that she seemed agitated or emotional. I think it's important to mention here that some genius on another website put up a google map to her house on the internet. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.gif Of course, when she saw this, it freaked her out, and maybe she has been a little nervous or guarded because of that. That's completely understandable.

It's cowardly to do something like that instead of going to a public meeting and meeting with someone face to face. Additionally, pulling crap like that makes all fishermen look bad.

If any of you reading this know if that post still exists, for the sake of all of us please contact the webmaster and ask them to remove it.

Sure we are angry about lost access. We will not forget or take the issue lightly. We have a right to protest and make our voices heard, either at public meetings or at the voting booths.

Sending implied threats over the internet, and causing a woman to feel unsafe in her house, is not cool. I'm still not convinced I believe everything she said, but I give her respect for standing up there in front of us.

For anyone who is so irritated about this that you feel you want to stand up and be counted, please join us at the next meeting, and let your opinion be heard in a respectful manner. Don't count on the other guy to do it, it's up to each and every one of us.

I drive 85 miles each way every time I go there. Why do I do this? I'll probably never fish up there, unless one of you guys invites me. :D I do it because we got the same stuff going on in NJ. We lose access in Monmouth county every year, and in NJ, it's mostly the fault of fishermen.

Here, in Brookhaven, it seems to me it's more the fault of people going to the beach at night and partying or camping, local teenagers, etc, and less the fault of most fishermen. But they're getting blamed anyway, and are in danger of losing access.

More importantly, let your opinion heard that there are other ways for the town to go after litterers. They could pass a $250 fine against litterers, where anyone tossing so much as a piece of gum would get a ticket. Of course, that means some of the local tenagers would be hassled by the police, and thier parents might get upset that their child got a $250 ticket. But it you want fairness and equality, you need equal enforcement. The added fines would help the budget shortfall for this year, so the town can't complain there is no money to institute this. Ticket and violations revenue is used by many towns to supplement the budget. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon3.gif

Even been to Connecticut? I was there with my girlfriend last year as we tried to scout a few fishing spots. Street after street had fences, no trespassing, and no fishing signs posted. If you guys on LI don't band together, that could be your reality very soon.

So if it happens in NY, it will happen soon after in NJ, the places I hold as sacred to my fishing enjoyment. I'm not about to let this happen, and am asking anyone out there who is upset about lost access to get involved.

Come and be a voice with us, show the elected public officials that we are more than a few, and we are not going to stand for this. :thumbsup:

[rpsurf5]

Well said Darkskies, but will be to differ on Bonner. She is trying to cover her ***. The only reason she is even considering dealing with the fisherman is because of the tremendous amount of pressure she is feeling from the fisherman. The letters, the emails , the phone calls, the attendance at the meetings , etc , etc are all working. When she shut down the beach she never consulted with the fisherman, she never expected the outrage that followed.

From all accounts she is emotional and somewhat unprofessional. No one has ever threatened at all. The opposite is true, she has threatened to hit fisherman with a citation if they set foot on Shoreham Beach with a fishing rod. She is up for reelection in November , it is her first reelect and she is scared she is going to get voted out of office, that is the only reason she is even considering dealing with the fisherman.

[DarkSkies]

She is up for reelection in November , it is her first reelect and she is scared she is going to get voted out of office, that is the only reason she is even considering dealing with the fisherman.

Hey RP, I agree with ya, but felt I had to report what she said about being threatened when someone posted the Google map to her house. I have had internet stalkers who won't say anything when they meet you in person, so I know what that's like, pretty spineless.

I'm trying to report things as fair and balanced as I can, that's why I stated I originally had a poor opinion of her for the way all the issues were handled. I'm still skeptical, and feel this is taking way too long.. If I lived close to there I would try to get a big number of fishermen together, at least 100, and march us all to the beach with fishing poles, and ask the police to write us citations so we could fight it out in court. They will look at things differently if they had to try 100 pleas of "not guilty" to an ordinance that most people feel is discriminatory. Of course, this wouldn't work with only 20 guys, you would need numbers, just like in any protest situation.

The ultimate protest is voting someone out of office. If you guys in NY don't feel she is doing her job, I hope you will rally enough support in the November elections to vote people non-sympathetic to fishermen out. Again, you need coordinated support to do this. Too many fishermen are content to let the other guy do the work.

We voted some non fishermen friendly politicians out of offfice in NJ in some elections in 2007. I didn't live in that district, but it was good to see the change fishermen can effect when they join together. :thumbsup:

I'll keep doin my part, man, because I know it may affect me and the guys in NJ down the road. Thanks for all the updates, and it was cool to meet all the NY guys. (Now when is someone gonna invite me up to the North Shore to FISH!!!) :D

Some more pics:

5450

5451

5452

5453

[BassBuddah]

:clapping:Great job RPsurf, Tom, Dark, and all the others. We have to keep this in the public eye.

[nitestrikes]

I couldn't make that meeting. It seemed like it would not be worth it to go with all the political and townspeople talk, so I passed. However, you're right in a lot of things you guys said. I signed that petition posted by rpsurf, and hope the nycrf gets somewhere when they have that meeting. Nice work guys! :clapping::clapping::clapping:

[rpsurf5]

Guys,

We need a big showing at the next meeting, every person there counts. So if you can make it, please do. bring 2 or 3 of your fishing buddies too. The politicians are feeling the pressure, the more of us there, the more pressure they feel.

Spread the word about this meeting.

Wednesday March 18th at 7:30 pm.

Directions to Shoreham Civic Meetings

Meetings are in the all-purpose room at the Miller Avenue elementary school in Shoreham.

From the west, via Rte. 347 and Rte. 25A

Follow 347 east to Port Jefferson and continue on Rte. 25A.

In Rocky Point, after the light at Rocky Point Road (Kohl's and Michael's in the shopping center on your right), stay to the right and follow the Rocky Point Bypass. The Bypass rejoins the business route at Woodville Road.

Pass the traffic lights at Randall Road and the Shoreham Plaza. Immediately after Shoreham Plaza (on your left), turn left (north) on Miller Avenue.

The school is on the right side of the road, just before it ends at North Country Road (See Map).



From east or west, via the LIE

Take the LIE east to Exit 68 (William Floyd Pkwy). Go north on the William Floyd (toward Brookhaven Lab and Wading River) and follow it to the end (Rte. 25A)

Turn left (west) at Rte. 25A. Turn right at the first traffic light (Miller Avenue).

The school is on the right side of the road, just before it ends at North Country Road. (See Map)


From the east, via Rte. 25A

Take Rte. 25A west, past the William Floyd Pkwy. Turn right at the first traffic light after the William Floyd (Miller Avenue).

The school is on the right side of the road, just before it ends at North Country Road. (See Map)

John

[stripercrazy]

Guys,

We need a big showing at the next meeting, every person there counts. So if you can make it, please do. bring 2 or 3 of your fishing buddies too. The politicians are feeling the pressure, the more of us there, the more pressure they feel.

Spread the word about this meeting.

Wednesday March 18th at 7:30 pm.

John


:clapping: WTG guys

[rockhopper]

I would never fish there anyway, those people sound like a bunch of stuck up tightwads. Thanks for fighting those idiots. :thumbsup:

[Tom Farrell]

I hope nobody falls for crocodile teers. She has a habit of acting the way she did the other night at the meeting. There was a female attorney at the meeting the other night as well. I spoke with her afterwards and she was apalled by Bonner insinuating fisherman are criminals with violent intent. That was just Janes way of trying to divert the attention away from herself. If her own neighbor didn't happen to put her on the spot she would have never spoken the other night. She is feeling the pressure intensely now knowing that her own election is only right around the corner. She has not made many friends lately within her own community and that spreads beyond fisherman.

[eisey]

Looking forward to the meeting on the 18th. An increase in the number of us showing up would be very impressive. See you there.





Bob
LIBBA 1002, MSA 295

[rpsurf5]

We need to fill that room with fisherman on Wednesday night ! Thanks in advance to anyone who is able to make it.

John

[7deadlyplugs]

I just copied and pasted something that was in rpsurf's letter. I think it's important because we do this every day. We always say "the other guy will take care of it". I have an appointment that night, but I still have signed the petition, and will write or sign any letter you guys need signatures on. Keep up the pressure and don't give up. :clapping:


"Do not assume that someone else will go and take care of this issue. Every person and every voice counts. We all spend a tremendous amount of time every year thinking about fishing, planning fishing trips and being on the water. Take a couple of hours of your time to attend the meeting and stand up for your rights to insure we keep our access now and for future generations. Even if you do not fish this beach, we need your support. Your favorite surf spot or boat launch could be next.

Many of you have sent letters, signed the petition and attended meetings, it is very much appreciated. It is having an impact, but there still is a lot of work to do.

I hope to see as many people as possible at this meeting. "

Thanks,

John Russell

[rpsurf5]

Look forward to seeing that place filled with fisherman.

I will be wearing a blue hooded Montauk Surfcaster Association sweatshirt if anyone wants to say hello.

[DarkSkies]

Jon, you really did a great job of managing this on here and other boards. You have the gift of diplomacy which I don't. :embarassed: But your way is best, you can't force people to care about something.

I had a conversation today with a guy I look up to a lot, we asked each other how long is it going to take a majority of fishermen to get angry about the issues we face, and find the time to get involved? :don't know why:

But of course your diplomatic phrases are better. I like some of the stuff you said about "don't assume the other guy will take care of it. "

There are so many avenues being closed to sportsmen in this country becasue most people are "willing to let the other guy take care of it". Well, that's how access is lost.

You, Tom Farrell, and all the other guys are doing a great job on everything. Don't ever give up, we may need you to come to meetings ijn Monmouth county in the future as we lose access there. I hope to make it tomorrow if I can get headed out before the traffic starts. If so, hope to finally meet ya. :thumbsup:

[rpsurf5]

Thanks !!

I will be there, will be wearing a blue hooded Montauk Surfcasters Association sweat shirt. if you see me say hello.

For all the help you have given us , will surely return the favor if you need help in New Jersey ! Thanks for effort in making the long trip out to Shoreham.

[DarkSkies]

There was a good vibe at the beginning of the meeting tonight. A lot of surf fishermen showed up, honest estimate between 60-70 people. It was a virtual who's who of the LI surf world, with MSA & LIBBA being heavily represented. Some famous surf guys, and some of us regular guys, all there to show the town we mean business and are sick and tired of the runaround and doubletalk.

Some of the people I recognized: Willie Young, Crazy Alberto Knie, Tom Farrell, RPsurf (Jon), Vito Orlando and his friends from the MSA, BrianBM, Frankiesurf, Eisey, Wiseguy, a lot of the guys from Noreast, and some guys from another site that I haven't seen in a long time. It was good to make a strong showing.

I asked Willie at the end how he thought it went, he said it was positive. Willie and all the rest of us were on our best behavior tonight. :laugh: Everyone was courteous and respectful, even when we didn't feel like it. :clapping::thumbsup: To all the guys who showed up in support. After going to so many meetings, I was getting a little discouraged that it seems progress is so slow.

Rather than give my regular report from the detailed notes I took, I'll try to be brief and outline the highlights. Sometiimes my reports are too frikkin long, even for me. :D

Basically, both candidates, and the Shoreham Civic Association, said "We understand your concerns, we understand the frustration you are going through, and we are actively working through this to resolve the issues"

Great, but I have heard that so many times before in different versions, I'm starting to believe these statements lack credibility.

This was prompted by a conversation I had on another site, with gunny and frankiesurf, where we talked about not accepting the truth unless you can verify it for yourself. So today before the meeting I did just that, went to both Riverhead and Shoreham beach, took pics, and compared the situations.

My conclusion: The Town council in Brookhaven is dragging its feet, and could do better. They're hiding behind the old law they dug up that designates that beach a bathing only beach.http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.gif

Eisey did some research and gave me a great handout on the Public Trust origins in LI. I'll post that in another thread. :clapping:

As for the candidates, it was the same Q&A you would see at any town meeting, and I asked myself how would either of these candidates do things any different?

The answer came when Mr Lesko pointed out that Mr Mazzei was part of the current town council that closed down Shoreham fishing to fishermen. So how can it be that Mr Maizey will now "work to open access" if he and other town officials unilaterally closed that place without any input from fiishermen at all?

There was further talk about the closed Shoreham plant and working with the LI power grid to "open access for fishermen through their property so they don't have to use the Shoreham beach bathing beach for access"

That's a great idea, but that could take years. Maybe not, but isn't it convenient that all of this is promised to take place AFTER the election, when something could have been done about it by approaching fishermen as soon as it was closed, and working together for a solution?

It's my gut feeling that none of the people up there who don't fish care about fishermen and our rights. The only reason they are even starting a dialogue is they see the numbers that are beginning to oppose this, and they're starting to worry. :2flip:

So they knoiw that now they have to deal with us one way or another, we're not going away.

I won't be voting inn that election because I don't live there. I didn't want to get into the pollitical game of endorsing any candidate. I liked some of the things each candidate said. As I get older, I tend to support more politically and fiscally conservative candidates like Mr Mazzei.

However, my personal opinion is that Mr Mazzei had his chance, along with the other members of that town council, and blew it. They only decided to deal with us because of the national press this is getting. So if I was voting, I would vote all the incumbents out, and vote for a new slate of people. I'm sick and tired of hearing the same patronizing answers.

I'll still go there and protest, but I wish I had somehing more positive to report. And if anyone doubts the power of the internet, I remember the Civic Association and the candidates saying several times that they read our "internet blogs" and are aware of the negative sentiment out there. Let's keep up the pressure on this, guys, we need more soldiers to win.

I had a good time meeting everyone. :HappyWave:

I'll post some pics tomorrow.

[dogfish]

I'm sick and tired of hearing the same patronizing answers.




Look at Dark, protestor of justice, truth, the American way on the internet and now a political activist. What will you be adding to your resume tomorrow? :laugh:

NqPgcfP9WN0







I'm thinking of hiring you for any access problems that come down the pike in this great state of Taxachusetts. What are your rates? Just kidding. :HappyWave: I've been reading up on this. I would paddle my yak over and crap on their beach fer you, but it's a little too far when the waves kick up. Eat the lunch of those richies there, they have no right to step on you. Get mad!!!! :clapping::clapping::clapping:

[rpsurf5]

A big thumbs up :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: to Darkskies for making the trip all the way from NJ to the North Shore of LI. It is very much appreciated and it was nice meeting you !!

[williehookem]

Great job on everything guys!:clapping:

[7deadlyplugs]

This might sound like a stupid question, but with all the attention this is getting, isn't there one fisherman who lives there that could run in the election against Bonner? Elect Lesko, dump Bonner, solve the problem, let guys fish there again. Sounds simple enough, no?

[Tom Farrell]

Thank you all for showing your support! It was nice to see you pull through once again darkskies. It has to be a terrible distance to travel for you. Maybe one day we will be able to return the favor.

See below which is currently published in the North Shore Sun and is being published in the Long Island Fisherman as well.

"NORTHSHORESUN.COM | MARCH 20, 2009 | 5
PAID ADVERTISEMENT
TOWN SUPERVISOR CANDIDATES STANCE ON RECREATIONAL FISHING
16 March 2009
As many already know, the fishermen of Long Island have been denied access to fi shing on a public beach known as Shoreham
Beach in the Town of Brookhaven. With 153 miles of coastline in the Town of Brookhaven and only 14 legal locations to fi sh, this
should be an outrage to all.

There have been thousands of letters, e-mails and phone calls to our local politicians and offi cials regarding this matter. However,
none of them, as of yet, have stepped up on behalf of the fi shermen; Shoreham Beach is still off limits to both fi shermen and boaters.
On March 31, 2009, there will be a special election for the offi ce of town supervisor for the Town of Brookhaven. This has led the
New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing to send each candidate a questionnaire regarding their stance on recreational fi shing
within the Town of Brookhaven.

Listed below you will see the questions that were given to each candidate, along with their replies. (Each candidate was informed
in writing that their responses to this questionnaire will be made public in the Long Island Fisherman and another local newspaper).

#1. Do you believe that recreational fi shing aids the economy for the Town of Brookhaven?
Mr. Timothy Mazzei answered yes and did not provide any comment.

Mr. Mark Lesko answered yes and stated: “Recreational fi shing is important to Brookhaven’s economy because of the multiplier effect
it has. The fact is that there is a whole industry in our town related to the fi shing community and as elected offi cials we need to do all we can to keep that community vibrant. With all the regulations coming down from the National Marine Fisheries Service, it is more important than ever that local officials do all they can do to be supportive of this industry.”

#2. Are you in favor of increased fishing opportunities and additional fi shing access within the Town of Brookhaven?
Mr. Mazzei answered yes and stated: “One of the best things about Brookhaven is that we border the Sound and the bay. I have lived
on the Great South Bay my whole life, boating and clamming since I was a little boy. We must work hard to continue our way of life
and take advantage of where we live.”

Mr. Lesko answered yes and stated “There is an important link between fishing and environmental conservation. There are no better
stewards of our environment than fi shermen, because they understand that only by protecting our natural resources can there be
sustainability.”

#3. Are you willing to increase enforcement of existing codes and statutes in the town?
Mr. Mazzei answered yes and stated: “That is our responsibility as town officials.”

Mr. Lesko answered by stating: “I would need to sit down with the fi shing community, community residents and enforcement staff
when I become supervisor in order to gauge enforcement and the town code relating to fishing issues and what modifi cations may
need to be made.”

#4. Are you in favor of a nonresident fishing permit to help aid the economy of the Town of Brookhaven?
Mr. Mazzei answered yes and stated: “As long as it doesn’t confl ict with the health and well being of our residents.”

Mr. Lesko answered by stating: “At this time I am not ready to commit to a nonresident permit. However, I would be interested in
listening to the community as well as residents to discuss the parameters of such a permit and the impact it would have. I agree that
Brookhaven offers some great fi shing opportunities for nonresidents, and bringing people to experience our town would have a
beneficial impact on our economy.”

#5. Would you be in favor of having a Recreational Fishing Advisory Board for the Town of Brookhaven?
Mr. Mazzei answered yes and stated: “The more input the better.”

Mr. Lesko answered yes and stated: “The way I make decisions is to listen to a broad variety of views and then make the best
decisions possible based on the facts. A Recreational Fishing Advisory Board would be helpful to make the best decisions on issues
like access, permitting and the town code.”


The politicians need to realize, as fishermen we are vast in numbers and we vote. It is time for all of us to stand up for our rights.
Violations of our rights cannot be tolerated any longer. Thank you in advance for publishing this letter.

Sincerely,
Tom Farrell
Secretary
New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing Inc.
95 Narwood Rd.
Massapequa, N.Y. 11758

Paid for by The New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing · William A. Young, President "


This battle is not over yet but there is definiely a light at the end of the tunnel.

[Tom Farrell]

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/4707695?fr=yvmtf

[BassBuddah]

Thank you all for showing your support! It was nice to see you pull through once again darkskies. It has to be a terrible distance to travel for you. Maybe one day we will be able to return the favor.

See below which is currently published in the North Shore Sun and is being published in the Long Island Fisherman as well.

"NORTHSHORESUN.COM | MARCH 20, 2009 | 5
PAID ADVERTISEMENT
TOWN SUPERVISOR CANDIDATES STANCE ON RECREATIONAL FISHING
16 March 2009
As many already know, the fishermen of Long Island have been denied access to fi shing on a public beach known as Shoreham
Beach in the Town of Brookhaven. With 153 miles of coastline in the Town of Brookhaven and only 14 legal locations to fi sh, this
should be an outrage to all.

There have been thousands of letters, e-mails and phone calls to our local politicians and offi cials regarding this matter. However,
none of them, as of yet, have stepped up on behalf of the fi shermen; Shoreham Beach is still off limits to both fi shermen and boaters.

The politicians need to realize, as fishermen we are vast in numbers and we vote. It is time for all of us to stand up for our rights.
Violations of our rights cannot be tolerated any longer. Thank you in advance for publishing this letter.

Sincerely,
Tom Farrell
Secretary
New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing Inc.
95 Narwood Rd.
Massapequa, N.Y. 11758

Paid for by The New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing · William A. Young, President "


This battle is not over yet but there is definiely a light at the end of the tunnel.


:clapping::clapping::clapping:Great job by Willie, Tom, CRFNY, Dark, RP, and all you guys! It looks like Lesko is getting ready to deliver the KO and knock Mazzei out of the box. Mazzei seems to be an elitist condescending blowhard. Let's keep this up, keep that fire burning.:thumbsup:


This might sound like a stupid question, but with all the attention this is getting, isn't there one fisherman who lives there that could run in the election against Bonner? Elect Lesko, dump Bonner, solve the problem, let guys fish there again. Sounds simple enough, no?


7dp, it's already happening, there is a movement to dump Bonner. Signs have been made up and are posted in the Brookhaven area. I got this from another site, made me proud to read it.:thumbsup:

[stripercrazy]

I don't live there but based on what I read here I would vote for Lesko. Great job everyone!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[DarkSkies]

Looks like Mr Mazzei really dropped the ball on this one. I tried to be fair and balanced, but kind of made up my mind that he had his chance when it was revealed that he was part of the group of officials that banned fishing there in the first place. I thought it was unacceptable to use that archaic law as a shield for what they did. Pass the buck, pass the buck. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.gif

There was some talk in this thread of hiring a lawyer, and whether money was available. At the meeting I sat in back of an attorney. His internet name is BrianBM from Suffolk county NY. He was taking comprehensive notes, almost as many as me.;)

I thought someone who reads this could get in touch with him on that other site and ask him if he might consider representing the fishermen. I didn't get a chance to get his number, but I assume he is registered to practice in NY since he lives there. Again, I don't know if he would be interested, but it's worth a shot to ask him. The momentum is finally rolling, but I'm still cynical until I see something concrete happening.

[rpsurf5]

Looks like Mr Mazzei really dropped the ball on this one. I tried to be fair and balanced, but kind of made up my mind that he had his chance when it was revealed that he was part of the group of officials that banned fishing there in the first place. I thought it was unacceptable to use that archaic law as a shield for what they did. Pass the buck, pass the buck. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.gif

There was some talk in this thread of hiring a lawyer, and whether money was available. At the meeting I sat in back of an attorney. His internet name is BrianBM from Suffolk county NY. He was taking comprehensive notes, almost as many as me.;)

I thought someone who reads this could get in touch with him on that other site and ask him if he might consider representing the fishermen. I didn't get a chance to get his number, but I assume he is registered to practice in NY since he lives there. Again, I don't know if he would be interested, but it's worth a shot to ask him. The momentum is finally rolling, but I'm still cynical until I see something concrete happening.

Rich,

Mazzei is currently on the town board, him and others are as responsible for this ban as anyone. Jane Bonner spearheaded it, but the other town board members let her do it and/or helped her.

Its amazing to me with all the publicity , all the pressure and all the doors we have knocked on, not one person in a position of authority has done anything to overturn this wrongful ban.

Dont worry, one way or another we will get this access back. The law is on our side and the masses are on our side. We have too many dedicated , committed people not to get this access back. I for one am a stubborn son of a gun and am not going to rest until we get what we rightfully deserve and want.

John

[stripercrazy]

Rich,

Mazzei is currently on the town board, him and others are as responsible for this ban as anyone. Jane Bonner spearheaded it, but the other town board members let her do it and/or helped her.

Its amazing to me with all the publicity , all the pressure and all the doors we have knocked on, not one person in a position of authority has done anything to overturn this wrongful ban.


John

Ding, we have a winner right there!http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon3.gif Sounds to me like they are stonewalling. Great work, everyone!

[BassBuddah]

Stonewalling isn't the word for it. They really don't care. Here's proof from a post on another site.:burn: We have to keep up the pressure on this guys, thanks for any support you can give.




"I called Bonner's office today to see what her position is. I was handed off to Mooney, the public information guy. According to him it is Town code that keeps us off that beach, not County code. He had no idea that we're being told by Town reps that it was a County issue. I was nice till he said "it's a bathing beach, period. Why don't you guys just fish somewhere else?".

Tim Mazzei stated the reason he moved public information out of the Supervisors office was because he was told at that time the public information dept did not work for him. I guess his public information guy does not work for us. The answer about National Grid working something out with the town is a pipe dream or a stall tactic. National grid has their property on lockdown aggressively stopping trespassing.


The fishing community has to realize that their vote in this special election could be the deciding vote due to expected low turnouts. A block of 500-1000 votes of unexpected votes could easily determine the outcome of this election. So please try to get as many people as you can out to vote on Mar 31 and let the elected officials know that your vote counts."

[blitzhunter]

Real difficult for me to get to the meetings but I am glad to see that you guys are keeping after them. We have to take a stand, otherwise they will just keep taking our rights away.

[eisey]

No decisions will be made until after the election results are in.
The best we can do now is VOTE, and continue with the letters and calls.

Remember, this election is for town supervisor, Ms Bonners election is in November.

[DarkSkies]

Here's some links to Public Trust Doctrine quotes Eisey gave me. Thanks, man.:thumbsup:



http://pb.state.ny.us/legal/court_decision_94_22784_wjf.pdf



http://www.law.georgetown.edu/gelpi/current_research/documents/RT_Briefs_WJFRealty.v.Southampton.pdf


(Man my head hurts from skimming through that!):D


http://www.braypapers.com/PTD.html

In the case of W.J.F Realty Corporation and Reed Rubin v. the State of New York , the New York State Supreme Court, Suffolk County upheld the Long Island Pine Barrens Act ("Act") against a takings challenge by highlighting the public trust doctrine. The decision was handed down on April 22, 1998, Earth Day. Briefly state, the Act is a comprehensive planning law that established in a 100,000 acre area of Long Island a 50,000 acre protected preserve surrounded by a 50,000 acre managed growth area. Justice William L. Underwood's decision includes an analysis of the common law and he concludes that, "Contrary to popular misconception, the Common Law did speak on the subject of environmental regulation". He concludes his analysis by declaring that:

In enacting environmental mandates (as in protecting the right of property), we are merely discharging our obligation under the societal contract between 'Those who are dead, those who are living and those yet to be born'. (Edmund Burke)...This generations duty has been discharged merely be setting aside this land for their (future generations) use under the doctrine of the Public Trust.

[BassBuddah]

:clapping:Great work, ds and others. A reminder that the election is March 31. Based on all the responses out there and the responses the candidates gave in the LI issue of the Fisherman, it seems one candidate will definitely move things along. And that wouldn't be the one on the current town council. For those who live there and fish, please exercise your right to vote. Men have died for that right, the least you could do is exercise it.

[rpsurf5]

All,

Stan from RPFS asked me to post the following. I am not telling anyone how to vote, just providing the following piece of information for you to digest.

Here is the email Stan sent me :

<< John,

I just got a call from Tim Mazzei in response to the email I sent him Saturday. I was very impressed with his demeanor, and his support for fisherman and the opening of beaches, for fishing, on the North Shore of Brookhaven. He told me I can hold him to his word on these issues if he gets elected. I never had a politician say that to me in the past 37 years while being involved with the town. Personally he seemed like a very regular, straight up person. I have yet to meet him, and unfortunately do not know that much about him, but he did seem very sincere. He, like I, own businesses and discussed other issues that we both stand on common ground with.

John, I know it is late, but I would appreciate if you could get this out to the various bloggs. Tomorrow we vote and our faction should hear this to help make their decision.

Stan >>

[nitestrikes]

John, come on give me a break! Mazzei is on the very town council that instituted the ban in the first place. He had to vote on it or it wouldn't have happened. He bears collective responsibility with the rest of that town council. Him going to Stan from Rocky Point is the biggest kiss azz move I have ever seen! He knows he stands to lose the election, so now he's making some last minute maneuvering. That's so transparent, why can't people see through crap like that? If he really wanted to make things happen, he would have done something before the election. Maybe it's already in the works, and he went to Stan so he can grandstand if he wins and say it was "his" efforts. I think he's a lying sack of crap, all that comes out of his mouth is crap, crap, crap. I don't trust anything he says. I would rather trust a pedophile babysitter than trust his promises. :2flip:

[rpsurf5]

Regardless of who wins, I think the good news that comes out of all this is the all the efforts of the fisherman have resulted in the politicians knowing we wont be ignored and cant be denied. We will get our access back and then some.

Like I said, I am not telling anyone who to vote for , just passing along the information. Both candidates are now on record saying they support the fisherman. Thats a long way from last year when they closed this beach down.

[dogfish]

I think he's a lying sack of crap, all that comes out of his mouth is crap, crap, crap. I don't trust anything he says. I would rather trust a pedophile babysitter than trust his promises. :2flip:

So you won't be having him over to your house anytime soon?:D

[7deadlyplugs]

So you won't be having him over to your house anytime soon?:D

:laugh:please tell everyone you know that today is the election. Great job!

[rpsurf5]

Hopefully the beach will be open soon ! Lesko said at Shoreham meeting to open the beach now !!! Hopefully he works closely with the fisherman to restore our rightful access at Shoreham and improve access throughout Brookhaven.

[BassBuddah]

Hopefully the beach will be open soon ! Lesko said at Shoreham meeting to open the beach now !!! Hopefully he works closely with the fisherman to restore our rightful access at Shoreham and improve access throughout Brookhaven.

We'll have to see, but I did get a sense that Lesko would do the right thing, and that he was sincere. Let's hope for some progress.

[rpsurf5]

We'll have to see, but I did get a sense that Lesko would do the right thing, and that he was sincere. Let's hope for some progress.

Since Lesko won the election, he contacted the New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing to setup a meeting. Stay tuned ......

[7deadlyplugs]

^^^ Keep the fingers crossed, great work guys!

[williehookem]

Since Lesko won the election, he contacted the New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing to setup a meeting. Stay tuned ......

Please let us know if you hear anything about the results of that meeting, thanks rp.

[DarkSkies]

Well people, some interesting news has developed.This is a further development of the meeting RPsurf was talking about. I just got off the phone with Stan Hentschel, owner of Rocky Point Fishing Stop, Rocky Point, NY.

He relayed the following promising news to me:

Since Mark Lesko won the election, he has been in touch with Stan, and Willy Young. They are slated to have a meeting very soon, where they will resolve the following -

1. Opening the beaches to fishermen and giving them back access.
2. Setting up a night permit system so guys can fish the beaches at night.
3. A committee of fishermen to have a dialogue with the town of Brookhaven to work out whether any other fishing spots are feasible.

Target date: the beginning of summer, though it could possibly happen before then. :thumbsup:


This is absolutely great news! Although the details still need to be hammered out, this is a lot better than things were during the old administration. Mr Lesko came in and started the ball rolling right away, true to his word. :clapping:

And for all the people out there who thought they couldn't make a difference, I would say to them look what happened here!!

A candidate who proved to be a false friend of fishermen was not voted in, and people realized it was time for a change.

Hopefully that area can get back on track in terms of revenue and growth. Without the fishermen and day trippers coming in, revenues were down. Coupled with the poor economy, many businesses, not just that of Stan's, are hanging by a thread.

I'm asking anyone who loves the north shore, on the next day you have free, to take a drive up to that area and see how beautiful it is.

Stop by Stan's shop and say hello. :HappyWave:

Here's some pics I took the last time I was there:
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=3415
You can get a sense of how beautiful it is in these pics, but to really get a sense of that place's beauty you need to walk the sand with your own 2 feet, smell the smell of the salt air and hear the soothing sounds of the LI sound at your feet.

Or just take a drive with the family to walk on the beach, and buy a cup of coffee or a slice of pizza from a local business up there. If ya have a few extra dollars for a day out on the cheap, those businesses up there would appreciate seeing some new faces!! :)


I came into this after the other members started this, and wanted to thank everyone for their efforts and doing what little bit they could, from the letter writing or signing petitions to attending the meetings. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I got involved in this because I saw the writing on the wall for access in other places, like NJ, and wanted to learn as much as I can. I still believe the town violated the Public Trust issues at some point, but let's leave that alone for now.

Right now, I want to say:

Thanks everyone, one person (combined with others) really can make a difference!! :clapping::clapping:


[Credit for this developing info goes to FrankieSurf, a member here and also a VP for the New York region on StriperCoastSurfcasters.

Unlike me, :laugh: He's a quiet guy when you first meet him, but he's like a bulldog, leaves no stone unturned in seeking the truth, and he doesn't go for the political doublespeak that seems to be status quo for politics today. You can PM or e-mail Frankie anytime ya want and ask him about www.StriperCoastSurfcasters.org (http://www.StriperCoastSurfcasters.org) , the one club that every serious surfcaster should consider, a fishing club with an eye on the issues.:wow:]

[BassBuddah]

Most excellent news, ds.:thumbsup:

[nitestrikes]

This is absolutely great news! Although the details still need to be hammered out, this is a lot better than things were during the old administration. Mr Lesko came in and started the ball rolling right away, true to his word. :clapping:

And for all the people out there who thought they couldn't make a difference, I would say to them look what happened here!!

A candidate who proved to be a false friend of fishermen was not voted in, and people realized it was time for a change.


Thanks everyone, one person (combined with others) really can make a difference!! :clapping::clapping:




Let them think they can take us for granted in the future. Amen brother, amen! :thumbsup:

[Tom Farrell]

This issue is not over yet. Myslef, Willy Young and atleast 1 other angler who I shall not name yet will be meeting with Mr. Lesko in the near future. There has not been a formal meeting in person held as of yet. Do not expect the world from the first meeting. However things look more promising for us each day. We will inform you of the outcome when we have the information. Thank you for your support.

Tom Farrell
Secretary - New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing

[DarkSkies]

This issue is not over yet. Myslef, Willy Young and atleast 1 other angler who I shall not name yet will be meeting with Mr. Lesko in the near future. There has not been a formal meeting in person held as of yet. Do not expect the world from the first meeting. However things look more promising for us each day. We will inform you of the outcome when we have the information. Thank you for your support.

Tom Farrell
Secretary - New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing

Tom, I appreciate you tempering the enthusiasm here, because you're right, it's not over. There are so many more northshore LI areas where Public Trust issues could be raised, only 14 fishing access spots for 230/250? miles of shoreline. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon13.gif

I didn't want to go down that route with my comments, so I reported it as Stan related it to me. He finally has some optimism after being beaten down for so long, and I wanted to put that sense of optimism out there.

Much still needs to be done, but at least those 3 points I mentioned are on the agenda for that meeting and other future meetings.

It never would have gotten to that point without you, the NYCRF, Willy Young and the MSA, RPsurf, BassBuddah and other members here, and all the individual fishermen going to the meetings, sending letters of protest, and letting the town know that we are more than just a few measly fishermen. I'm convinced the town would have kept that fishing access closed forever if fishermen didn't get involved.

When I'm angry about something, I have to watch my tendency to be negative or overly pessimistic. I didn't want to do that here because I feel with the election there is a pathway to forging new relationships.

I was starting to get discouraged here. Even with the elections, I thought all this meeting talk was taking too long, and the fishermen were still getting shafted.

When I talked to Stan, he was full of optimism, and that optimism affected me as well. I don't want to lose sight of how far we had to struggle to get to this point, or my resolve to keep getting involved in this and other issues until fishermen are accorded their constitutional rights granted in the Public Trust.

I agree it's not completely over. Let's not get too complacent just yet, we may have to have another protest meeting if this doesn't pan out. However, nice job to all who took the time and effort to make a difference here!!!:clapping::clapping: :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[williehookem]

Nice job everyone who worked on this.:clapping:

[Tom Farrell]

We would not have gotten as far as we have without everyones support. I thank everyone for that.

See below Councilwoman Jane Bonners proposal for fishing at Shoreham Beach. As I am sure after all of you read it will agree that it is completely unacceptable. I spoke with Town Supervisor this evening and will be meeting with him in the next couple weeks.

[rpsurf5]

Wow, a lot of things not to like about this proposal. Some are :

1) trial basis and revisited - Our basic rights are not negotiable on a year to year basis.

2) $25 for residents to fish - Are they going to also charge swimmers and sunbathers $25 for their permits ?

3) only 100 permits

4) 2 person limit when applying for permit

5) fishing allowed only right of the beach - This is outrageous, PTD allows us access to all beaches below the high tide line. This still smacks of the residents wanted to keep the beach private , as to the right there are no homes and to the left are where the homes are.

All the efforts of the fisherman and The Coalition have really paid off. Without it, that beach would be closed to fisherman forever. Regardless of this weak proposal by Jane Bonner ,we are in a great place now, we are going to get our access back and then some hopefully. Good luck Tom in the meeting with Town Supervisor Mark Lesko.

[DarkSkies]

5) fishing allowed only right of the beach - This is outrageous, PTD allows us access to all beaches below the high tide line. This still smacks of the residents wanted to keep the beach private , as to the right there are no homes and to the left are where the homes are.

All the efforts of the fisherman and The Coalition have really paid off. Without it, that beach would be closed to fisherman forever. Regardless of this weak proposal by Jane Bonner ,we are in a great place now, we are going to get our access back and then some hopefully. Good luck Tom in the meeting with Town Supervisor Mark Lesko.

#5 is a slap in the face to fishermen everywhere.

RP and Tom you're absolutely right, this is as lame as it can get. And to think that's the best they could do after they saw all the interest and coalition forming by all the guys out there? Also, limiting it to 100 permits? That's still limiting access.

Basically this tells me Bonner and crew don't take us seriously. I hope the meeting with Mr Lesko has better results.

I'll hold back on the rest of my negative perceptions until after the meeting.

I had to look twice at the date of 4/20/09 on the memo. I had some small hope that this was something previously proposed, but this is the reality we face. Not over yet, guys, if this is the best they can offer.

For anyone who wants to follow another blog and comments about this and see how angry people really are, take a look at this on Topix:
http://www.topix.com/forum/source/newsday/T6J2TL4TIQSTNV1KH

[seamonkey]

There is definitely a long way to go here. Only allowing 100 permits is outrages. It still violates the rights of other fishermen.

[nitestrikes]

Not good news. Keep us posted, thanks.

[rpsurf5]

Not good news. Keep us posted, thanks.

Not to worry guys, that is just one politicians proposal, other politicians are involved and there is no way that will be the final proposal.

We have come a long way and we will get what we want.

[BassBuddah]

rp, the way I read it there really isn't much changed from the "no access" now, because it will be closed during the beach season. OK it will be open to night fishermen, but how does that help people like Stanley Hentschel? Why can't Brookhaven adopt the same rules and regulations that Riverhead has? Riverhead has a plan that works, it is not overrun with fishermen and trash, and people go there to fish and spend money. What is stopping Brookhaven from doing this?

[rpsurf5]

Guys,

This is one proposal from one politician (Jane Bonner). This is the politician who was behind the banning to begin with. I dont like the proposal one bit and there is no way this will be the final proposal. The Coalition will be meeting with new town supervisor Mark Lesko on this issue.

IMHO this Bonner proposal will never fly. Dont forget she is only one person on the board and there now is a new Town Supervisor. Both parties pledged their support to the fisherman. I am pretty confident we will get what we want.

John

[stripercrazy]

politicians=snake oil salesmen;)

[Tom Farrell]

At the recent Town of Brookhaven meeting where several organizations attended Jane Bonner happened to be the only individual who seemed to be against everything for the fisherman. She could have done the right thing a long time ago. Apparently she never will. From what several of her own constituents are talking about, her political career will be short lived. Its only a matter of time when a qualified individual stands up to run for her position as Councilwoman or Councilman.

:beatin: :fishing:

[stormchaser]

She could have done the right thing a long time ago. Apparently she never will. From what several of her own constituents are talking about, her political career will be short lived. Its only a matter of time when a qualified individual stands up to run for her position as Councilwoman or Councilman.

:beatin: :fishing:


:thumbsup: vote her out of office.

[Tom Farrell]

Jane Bonner may just step aside on her own when it comes to the next Election.

On 15May09 Willy Young, Debbie Delgado and I will be meeting in person with the new Town Supervisor Mark Lesko.

[CharlieTuna]

I seems to me as if Jane is going to learn her lesson the hard way. You can't be the only one against fisherman and still be standing after an election. Maybe Tom is right, she will just step down on her own. Maybe she can't wait to step down.

[Tom Farrell]

I can finally give all of you some very good news. I finally spoke to Supervisor Mark Lesko today. The Town of Brookhaven now has a new policy regarding fishing at Shoreham Beach. As of today Shoreham Beach has been added to Brookhaven’s Night Fishing Permit. Also fisherman will be required to obtain a fishing access sticker for Shoreham Beach for daytime use. This is not a fishing permit or license. It is to determine who is a resident or a non resident. The fishing access sticker will be free to all Town of Brookhaven residents. If you are a non resident you will be able to park in the lot for a fee of $20 and that parking fee will include the sticker. Walk on’s will be permitted for a fee of $10. You will be required to provide valid legal documentation to obtain the sticker. The normal hours of the beach will be extended as well. The beach will be open from 5am to 9pm daily. There will be employees in the booth during those hours. The official opening date for Shoreham Beach is 27 June 2009. However the night fishing permit is currently in effect.

Thank you to everyone who assisted in this effort. If it wasn’t for each and every one of you as individuals this may not have been possible. Each email, phone call, letter sent, petition signed carried a lot of weight in getting Shoreham Beach open to fisherman. This goes to show you what can be done when you are organized and when you stand up for your rights. I also need to thank all of the websites for all of there support. They made it much easier to mobilize everyone in our efforts of regaining access at the beach. Last but not least we also need to thank Supervisor Lesko for all of his support. He has clearly proven that he is a friend of the fisherman and looking out for the best interests of everyone involved. You can all be proud of this victory.

There will be more to follow in the near future. Once again thank you for all of your support.

Sincerely,

Tom Farrell
Secretary – New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing Inc.
weakfishin@yahoo.com (weakfishin@yahoo.com)


THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR SUPPORT.

[BassBuddah]

:clapping::clapping::clapping: to Willy Young, Tom, Darkskies, and all the other guys who lent a hand in this. Great news!



Get your tackle box ready
Town officials reach compromise over fishing at Shoreham Beach
BY PEGGY SPELLMAN HOEY (peggy@northshoresun.com) |STAFF WRITER
http://assets.mediaspanonline.com/prod/2673311/131123_w407.jpgPeter Blasl Photo Fishermen casting their lines at Cedar Beach and other areas along the North Shore will soon be allowed to return to Shoreham Beach, where fishing had been banned for the past year. Fishing line will soon be back in the Sound over at Shoreham Beach.

Town officials have reached a compromise on the issue of fishing at Shoreham Beach, a town-maintained beach that was closed to fishermen and boaters last year when a gate was installed at the front entrance following complaints by residents about trespassing.
The beach, which is next to the former Shoreham nuclear power plant, is accessible to the public by an access road located off North Country Road. Numerous complaints concerning the use of all-terrain vehicles, vagrancy, littering, and trespassing into backyards have been lodged with Suffolk police, increasing in direct relation to the arrival of the summer crowd at Shoreham Beach.

This caused officials last year to install a security gate and cameras to deter vehicles from entering the property after lifeguards close up for the night, as well as bilingual "no fishing" signs.

This raised the ire of members of several fishing advocacy organizations, who argued that their rights to walk below the mean high-water mark were violated, giving way to a series of debates on message boards and a petition to restore access to the site.

According to town officials, fishing and boating have never been allowed at the site, although the rule was never enforced.
Brookhaven Supervisor Mark Lesko, who recently met to discuss beach access issues with the New York State Coalition for Recreational Fishing -- the state's largest lobbying group that looks after the rights of recreational fishermen and their issues concerning access -- residents, the Long Island Power Authority and National Grid, said officials will allow fishing at the beach by the use of a fishing access sticker.

The stickers will be free and will be provided by the seasonal workers at the booth with proof of identification. Nonresidents who use the parking lot will be charged a $20 fee for parking, and nonresident walk-ons to the beach will have to pay a $10 fee.

The beach has also been added to the list of beaches that are covered by the night-fishing permit; however, nonresidents are not eligible, the supervisor said.

Officials have also extended the hours of operation, previously 11 a.m. to 6 p.m., to 5 a.m. to 9 p.m. There will be two seasonal employees on duty per day at the beach, and there will also be expanded enforcement efforts by park rangers and code enforcement.

Mr. Lesko commended everyone for coming to the table and arriving at a solution.

"All of this is to address the unique situation at Shoreham Beach, which was a serious issue for residents who live near the beach and also law enforcement," Mr. Lesko said. "This is specific to this beach," he added.

Coalition president William Young said members of the delegation, who met with Mr. Lesko, requested that both day and night fishing be restored to the area, and suggested the use of a card key reader, offering to help with its costs, so that the town could keep track of who was using the facility.

The coalition also requested a fishing advisory committee to discuss beach access issues across the township and especially on the North Shore, which has very few public access points between Mount Sinai and Wading River. Many of the public access roads, where fishermen used to park, have been whittled away over the years, dedicated to beach property owners' associations, he said.
Mr. Young said he was pleased with the agreement, but noted there are still other issues with fishing throughout the town.

"It's a general good-for-now agreement," he said.
Mr. Lesko said town officials will consider creation of a fishing advisory committee to address the issue of parking at other fishing areas throughout town and whether or not nonresidents should be included in night fishing permit.

The advisory committee would have to be set up by resolution of the Town Board, he said.

Second District Councilwoman Jane Bonner, who said officials have met extensively with all the stakeholders on the issue, said she was glad to see a resolution that would solve both the access issue and accountability. "I'm gratified," she said.

[nitestrikes]

Second District Councilwoman Jane Bonner, who said officials have met extensively with all the stakeholders on the issue, said she was glad to see a resolution that would solve both the access issue and accountability. "I'm gratified," she said.

She's gratified? Certified is more like it. :kooky: :2flip: :D Great job guys!:thumbsup::clapping::clapping:

[plugginpete]

:clapping: Way to go people!

[rockhopper]

:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping: Now you have to get Bonner out of office.

[Tom Farrell]

Very good news! Eddie Morris just called me and informed me that Shoreham Beach is now open to fishing. He was extremely sincere and apologized for all of the confusion. Shoreham Beach should be open tomorrow morning around 5am. The stickers are not ready yet so for the time being the park employees will be checking peoples identification and permitting access. There may be some kinks to work out but for the mean time lets enjoy the season. :fishing:

[stripercrazy]

He was extremely sincere and apologized for all of the confusion. . :fishing:

You would never have gotten anything resembling an apology if all those numbers of fishermen didn't get involved. Nice work Tom, NYCRF and everyone else. :clapping::clapping:

[nitestrikes]

:clapping::clapping::clapping:Most excellent news, Tom. Great work guys!

[rpsurf5]

You would never have gotten anything resembling an apology if all those numbers of fishermen didn't get involved. Nice work Tom, NYCRF and everyone else. :clapping::clapping:

Thats for sure. If not for the incredible and sustained amount of pressure put on by the fisherman, that beach would still be closed. Every email, letter, name on the petition, phone call, every post on a web site, every person who showed up at a meeting, etc, etc it all mattered.

Surely the next battle will pop-up somewhere, we proved we wont let our rights be trampled upon at Shoreham and will continue to do so wherever we fish.

[7deadlyplugs]

Every email, letter, name on the petition, phone call, every post on a web site, every person who showed up at a meeting, etc, etc it all mattered.




The power of strength in numbers, great job guys!:thumbsup:

[rpsurf5]

:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping: Now you have to get Bonner out of office.

Come election time we definitely need to remember who instituted this ban to begin with. Its clear now who is for the fisherman and who is against them.

I saw this sign at RPFS last weekend :)!

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd155/rpsurf5/Shoreham%20Trip/shorehamfishing032.jpg

[crosseyedbass]

Can any tell me if Brookhave is still open to fishing or did it change again?

[rpsurf5]

Still open, but less hours then it was last year. Doesnt open until 4th of July weekend and only open Fridays to Sundays. Closed Labor day. Better then not being open at all, but to me these hours are completely unacceptable.

You should be able to park at gate and walk to the beach, although its a long walk.

[Pebbles]

I am glad to see that it somewhat open. I still don't get how they can get away with this. I thought anyone was allowed to fish the beaches because of the public trust doctrine? Don't our taxes pay for their errosion when it happens?

[rpsurf5]

I am glad to see that it somewhat open. I still don't get how they can get away with this. I thought anyone was allowed to fish the beaches because of the public trust doctrine? Don't our taxes pay for their errosion when it happens?

Tom Farrell and others have done a tremendous amount of work uncovering a slew of wrongdoings at the beaches of the North Shore of Brookhaven. Check it out, it is all documented here:

http://www.noreast.com/discussion/ViewTopic.cfm?topic_ID=146856&page=1

It is appalling what has gone on there and the mistaken belief that some residents and property associations believing the beaches are theirs and no one else.

Looks like the fisherman are going to have to rally again to undo these wrongdoings! Rich and others here got involved, we may need some help again!!

[DarkSkies]

RPsurf, you have my blessing to use the resources of the site whenever you need to get publicity for anything like this. You, Tom Farrell, and the guys at NYCRF should feel free to quote anything used in this thread to further your cause. Asking my explicit permission isn't necessary for this thread.

I have so much time invested in this issue that I don't want to see fishermen lose on this one.

So feel free, and please keep us posted if there are any more meetings where they need fisherman support.

I have a decent videocamera now too, and can tape some of the meetings if needed.


Additiuonally:
Fishermen need to realize that just because a place has permitted access because of the Public Trust Doctrine, they still need to conduct themselves well and behave with respect to the homeowners.

I know homeowners can sometimes be arrogant, condescending, and unaware of the law. That's unfortunate.

It's also unfortunate that some fishermen think public access gives them the right to be rude, or disrespectful. The other night I had to intervene in a dispute in Ocean County NJ when homeowners got angry with fishermen fishing a public access spot near their house.

One of the fishermen threatened to put a brick through the homeowners' window. It was ar that point that I tried to intervene.

Even though the homeowners were not exactly right in their actions, there's no excuse for threatening them or harassing them. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/images/icons/icon3.gif

We as fishermen have to be smarter than that if we want to win these fights. We have to conduct ourselves with respect and without being abusive to those who live there. Sometimes this seems impossible because there are those out there who hate fishermen.

But....remember that every time we exhibit poor behavior, it reflects on all fishermen. This behavior should not be tolerated by other fishermen, if they witness it. I think the time has come to exert negative peer pressure on any fisherman who makes it bad for the rest of us.

Good luck with the fight, and let us know if there is anything else we can do here, RP. :thumbsup:

[rpsurf5]

Thanks Rich! I felt a bit funny about linking to another fishing web site, but there is so much information there now, would be difficult to have it all in two places.

Your support during the Shoreham fight was tremendous and much appreciated!!!

These kinds of fights in Brookhaven will be perpetual, we really need to stay on top of it. I thought Shoreham was egregious, but the lastest developments are just as bad.

[DarkSkies]

Thanks Rich! I felt a bit funny about linking to another fishing web site, but there is so much information there now, would be difficult to have it all in two places.




RP, normally I might not allow it, but you're right in that statement, I have to agree. There is more interest in that specific thread on that site than any other internet fishing site out there. Caring about the issue as I do, I would be irresponsible not to let people see that, and the level of outrage that has arisen because of it.

And if I learned anything in the Fishermens' March on Washington, it't that we need outrage, we need our fishermen to be passionate about getting involved in issues that affect them.

The act of getting involved in internet discussions about this is not enough.

We need the guys who will go to the meetings and write the letters of protest.

That number of involved fishermen represents a small fraction of all fishermen. Sad as that's sounds, that's why we need maximum internet exposure and public awareness on issues like this one. :thumbsup:

[rpsurf5]

All,

Tom Farrell and Stan Hentschel from Rocky Point Fishing Stop were on News 12 TV yesterday in Rocky Point. Things are really heating up. Please visit the thread on Noreast.com and read it, everything is documented there and pictures also. There is an illegal fence at the end of a public road that is blocking access to the beach. They even put pipes under the bottom of the fence and greased them up.

Linda Albo is the President of the homeowners association said we were welcome to use the beach, but would have to pay $250 to join her private home association :burn::burn::burn:!!!!

Stay tuned, a rally somewhere to protest these wrongdoings and the town doing nothing about it may be in the works.

[DarkSkies]

. There is an illegal fence at the end of a public road that is blocking access to the beach. They even put pipes under the bottom of the fence and greased them up.

Linda Albo is the President of the homeowners association said we were welcome to use the beach, but would have to pay $250 to join her private home association :burn::burn::burn:!!!!

Stay tuned, a rally somewhere to protest these wrongdoings and the town doing nothing about it may be in the works.


Illegal fences and greased poles? Dirty pool. :burn:
All to block access to public water.

Gotta keep this in the news and on the front lines.

To that end, a big thanks to Stan Hentschel, Tom Farrell, and the rest of the NY-CRF for pushing this in the public eye and keeping the media in the loop. :clapping:

Tom Farrell, as a key officer in the NY-CRF, knows the importance of coalition-building, media attention, and building alliances with the fishermen. There are a lot of people involved, but it seems Tom is not one to let fishermens rights be trampled on. Kudos to him and all you others for keeping that pressure up. :clapping::clapping:

Thanks for keeping us posted on this John, and continuing to do so. :thumbsup: It seems to me a rally might be needed again, please let us know if one is scheduled.

[stripercrazy]

I can't believe that, elite pieces of crap those homeowners.:2flip:

[rpsurf5]

I have sent the following letter to Linda Albo. I encourage others to do the same.

<<Linda Albo
President
North Shore Beach Property Association of Rocky Point, NY
P.O. Box 601
Rocky Point NY 11778

Dear Ms. Albo:
As a citizen, taxpayer, fisherman, beachgoer and someone who grew up fishing the beaches of Rocky Point, I am disgusted and appalled by your organization’s stance on beach access for the general public and your recent comments on News 12. The North Shore Beach Property Association of Rocky Point may own the beach above the high tide mark, but they certainly do not own the beach below the high tide mark. The Public Trust Doctrine which was around long before the NSBPOA was established in 1928 and will be around long after the NSBPOA, gives the general public rights to access the beach below the high tide mark. This is in place to give all citizens access to the beach, just not a select few who live near the beach. Your stance that citizens who want legal access to their beaches can only get it by paying your private association $250 to join is appalling. We already have legal access to these beaches and you can’t legally stop anyone from using these beaches.

First of all, there is a zero percent chance of myself or anyone I know paying your organization $250 to access what is legally ours to begin with. Aside from that, what about people who can’t afford this fee? What about the elderly, the handicapped, families with kids who just want to enjoy a day at the beach but can’t afford $250? The economy is terrible, unemployment is at a record high, but you have the nerve to make a flippant remark that per day the cost is less than a box of worms. $250 might be affordable to wealthy beachfront homeowners, but people who can’t afford this are being discriminated against.

I am aware of fences that have been erected at the end of Broadway and Friendship Drive. These fences are not legal and are blocking access by the general public to public beaches from public roads. Worse yet, the fence at Broadway now has greased pipes underneath it. Not only is this further blocking legal access, but it is danger to the health and safety of the public.

The fisherman are stewards of the beach. We very much value beaches and do everything we can do to keep them clean and safe. Whatever we bring on the beach, we take off and more. We organize and participate in beach cleanups. We are an extra set of eyes on the beach and when we see illegal activity we report it. Fishing gives kids a productive activity to do and promotes respect for our natural resources. Generations of kids are being deprived of learning how to fish and instead resort to less desirable activities which can be harmful to their well being and the general public’s well being. I grew up fishing the beaches of Rocky Point, at that time my family couldn’t afford $250 so I can go and fish, thankfully back then it wasn’t required. I have fond memories of getting on my bike and going fishing, a lot of what I learned back then has made me a respectable, law abiding productive citizens. Many kids who now are like me back then are being deprived the same experiences and life lessons that I received.

Feel free to distribute this letter to your board of directors and your membership. Are they aware of the actions of the NSBPOA and your stance on beach access? Do they agree with it? Are they aware that there is possible illegal activity by the NSBPOA? I believe your stance is morally and socially wrong; how about your members? The beaches are for everyone, not just a select few. Is your membership happy about keeping people off of public beaches? What about the effect reduced beach access is having on the local economy? People who come to the beaches spend money locally. As access is taken away, so is money to the local economy. If local businesses fail and people leave the area, Rocky Point will become a ghost town and property values will fall. Are they ready to legally defend themselves from criminal and civil penalties if it is found that the NSBPOA is breaking the law, violating the rights of the public and discriminating against segments of the population?

I have friends, family, fellow fisherman, fellow club members, and fellow beachgoers who live in Brookhaven and beyond and will not let our rights be violated. I am aware that fisherman and citizens alike have tried to work with local politicians and the NSBPOA to resolve this situation, but it has fallen on deaf ears. Fishermen are an extremely dedicated group with a tremendous amount of resolve. We fish all hours of the day and night. We brave cold, heat, wind, snow and rain to do what we love to do. We have many sleepless nights, we walk miles as we fish, we deal with locals who try to restrict our access. There are thousands of us locally and millions of us nationally. The same determination and resolve we use when we fish, will be used to defend our rights to access the beaches; that I can guarantee you. It is a shame that it has come to this, but we will not let our rights be violated any more. I urge you to work with local fishing and non fishing groups to come to a resolution. Myself and many others will pursue every legal, social and political option to rectify these situations and will never stop fighting to protect our rights.


Sincerely,
John E. Russell
>>

[BassBuddah]

I have sent the following letter to Linda Albo. I encourage others to do the same.

<<Linda Albo
President
North Shore Beach Property Association of Rocky Point, NY
P.O. Box 601
Rocky Point NY 11778

Dear Ms. Albo:
First of all, there is a zero percent chance of myself or anyone I know paying your organization $250 to access what is legally ours to begin with. Aside from that, what about people who can’t afford this fee? What about the elderly, the handicapped, families with kids who just want to enjoy a day at the beach but can’t afford $250? The economy is terrible, unemployment is at a record high, but you have the nerve to make a flippant remark that per day the cost is less than a box of worms. $250 might be affordable to wealthy beachfront homeowners, but people who can’t afford this are being discriminated against.

I am aware of fences that have been erected at the end of Broadway and Friendship Drive. These fences are not legal and are blocking access by the general public to public beaches from public roads. Worse yet, the fence at Broadway now has greased pipes underneath it. Not only is this further blocking legal access, but it is danger to the health and safety of the public.

The fisherman are stewards of the beach. We very much value beaches and do everything we can do to keep them clean and safe. Whatever we bring on the beach, we take off and more. We organize and participate in beach cleanups. We are an extra set of eyes on the beach and when we see illegal activity we report it. Fishing gives kids a productive activity to do and promotes respect for our natural resources. Generations of kids are being deprived of learning how to fish and instead resort to less desirable activities which can be harmful to their well being and the general public’s well being.
Sincerely,
John E. Russell
>>

:clapping::clapping: That was a very well-worded letter rpsurf, thank you for posting that. I hope you don't mind, I took the context of that letter, took out the sentences that pertained to you, and sent it in as well.

I suggest others here do the same. It's not that hard, RP has done all the writing for us, All you have to do is C&P the relevant paragraphs, and sene it on. They need to hear from a multitude of people on this.

[rpsurf5]

:clapping::clapping: That was a very well-worded letter rpsurf, thank you for posting that. I hope you don't mind, I took the context of that letter, took out the sentences that pertained to you, and sent it in as well.

I suggest others here do the same. It's not that hard, RP has done all the writing for us, All you have to do is C&P the relevant paragraphs, and sene it on. They need to hear from a multitude of people on this.

I don't mind at all , thanks for taking the time to create your version of the letter and send it out. I encourage everyone else to do the same. We need to let these people know there are a lot of us ,we are watching them and we will not let them get away with violating our rights. There is strength in numbers, the more people who write letters , the better off we will be.

Also, this weekend they had there annual clambake, there are no parking signs all over the area near the beach to keep people like us out, but wouldnt you know it, there were a lot of illegally parked cars yesterday so the members of the association could attend the clambake. None of them were ticketed. What do you think would happen if we tried to park down there and go fishing, we would be ticketed and towed in a heartbeat. They want to live by their own set of rules there.

[nitestrikes]

Also, this weekend they had there annual clambake, there are no parking signs all over the area near the beach to keep people like us out, but wouldnt you know it, there were a lot of illegally parked cars yesterday so the members of the association could attend the clambake. None of them were ticketed. What do you think would happen if we tried to park down there and go fishing, we would be ticketed and towed in a heartbeat. They want to live by their own set of rules there.


That sux, I sent a letter today, thanks for the idea.

[Tom Farrell]

Looks like they have it right in Jersey. Theres nothing like the smell of victory. Its only a matter of time. :)

"

Attorney General's Office may challenge beach-access limits in Loveladies, North Beach


Print this Article Share this Article


StoryDiscussionBy DONNA WEAVER Staff Writer | Posted: Sunday, February 7, 2010 | 7 comments

Font Size:Default font sizeLarger font size.
A sign at the entrance to the 1049 block in North Beach denies beach access. Portions of the beach in Loveladies and North Beach in Long Beach Township have no public access.

Photo by: Jack Reynolds
..

After winning a series of beach access fights in Monmouth County last month, the state Attorney General’s Office is expected to turn its attention to opening up beach paths along Long Beach Island in Ocean County this summer.

The 18-mile-long island has hundreds of sandy paths stretching from Long Beach Boulevard to the beach, but most are marked “Private” or “No Beach Access.” The signs are not legally enforceable, but they do discourage beachgoers. The state Department of Environmental Protection has said it wants them taken down, particularly since the island is in the midst of a $77 million beach-replenishment project.

In January, the state attorney general reached settlements with six private beach clubs in Monmouth County. The settlements gave the public access to a wider swath of beach in front of the clubs — in some cases, they had been limited to as little as 15 feet of sand.

A spokesman for Gov. Chris Christie said last week that the governor will address beach access issues by the start of the tourist season.

“We’ll get to it,” Michael Drewniak said. “Just not yet.”

Portions of the beach in Loveladies and North Beach — both sections of Long Beach Township — have virtually no public access.

Custom-made signs declaring “No Beach Access,” “Private Lane,” “No Trespassing” and “Do Not Enter” line Long Beach Boulevard. There are 239 private lanes with easements on the bay and ocean sides of Long Beach Boulevard in Loveladies and North Beach.

As such, beachgoers who do not own an oceanfront home can expect no parking, restrooms or other amenities along this two-mile stretch of mostly multimillion-dollar homes.

Beach-access advocacy groups say the settlements between the state and the six private beach clubs and Sea Bright, Monmouth County, will serve as a way to open beach access in sections of Long Beach Township.

Tim Dillingham, executive director of the American Littoral Society, said Long Beach Island is the poster child for private homeowners trying to keep people off publicly-funded beaches.

“Owners have a problem letting people on the beach there, but they have no problem accepting public money,” Dillingham said.

However, Kenneth Porro, an attorney for 67 oceanfront homeowners across LBI who refuse to sign easements for a beachfill project, said pursuing beach access on private lanes on the north end is another example of government trying to take land without just compensation.

“The government has the power to do this under eminent domain and the Public Trust Doctrine but they must pay homeowners,” he said.

“Think about it. It’s your property, you pay thousands of dollars in taxes, why should you give up private access when people can walk to the next street,” Porro said.

He said he believes public access in Loveladies and North Beach is not that big of a problem compared with the missing amenities.

“People don’t go there to go to the beach because they know there’s nowhere to park or go to the bathroom,” Porro said.

Long Beach Township has been at odds with oceanfront homeowners in Loveladies and North Beach who have refused to sign easements granting property access to the state Department of Environmental Protection and U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to complete a beach-replenishment project.

Over the past few years, many homeowners say the reason they won’t sign is because they believe doing so will lead to a boardwalk being built, more public parking, bathrooms and more members of the public getting to the beach by their homes.

“It’s offensive that there’s no access and it’s preposterous that there is no way to get over the dunes or park,” said Julia LeMense, an attorney who represented the littoral society and Citizens Right to Access Beaches, or CRAB.

Both CRAB and the littoral society were involved in the three-year mediation process for the Monmouth County settlements. Attorney General Anne Milgram sued nine beach clubs and Sea Bright in 2006 for limiting public beach access.

The lawsuit claimed the beach clubs were in violation of the Public Trust Doctrine. The long-held principle, which dates to Roman times, says the public cannot be denied access to the water.

The settlements significantly expand the amount of beach open to the general public, and the beach clubs also have agreed to contribute to a fund that will be used for the construction of additional public-access amenities in Sea Bright, according to the state Attorney General’s Office. Under the settlement, Sea Bright agreed to spend $556,000 to provide additional public-access amenities within the borough that are related to providing public access to the beach.

CRAB founder Ralph Coscia, of Brick Township, said the public has a very strong right to access and use the beaches anywhere in New Jersey, including on Long Beach Island. He said if opening beach access can happen in Sea Bright, it can happen on LBI.

Coscia, 62, formed the nonprofit organization in 1996, following a series of beach-access issues in Point Pleasant Beach.

Coscia said he hopes the Christie administration will favor beach access and examine Long Beach Island because tourism in New Jersey is a multimillion-dollar business.

“This settlement serves as a model and mechanism for the LBI access issue to be resolved,” he said.

“We’re hoping we can build upon each case, like this case in Sea Bright, and each case that comes along — and there will be more that come along — the process will get easier.”

Dillingham said the question of public access has not received as much attention on Long Beach Island as the issue with easements.

“This is timely to look at because of the beach renourishment project on LBI. This is a new administration and we’re hoping to turn their attention to LBI,” he said.

Laurie Brewer, spokeswoman for the state Department of the Public Advocate, said the department believes that the state serves as the trustee to ensure that beaches are available for the benefit of all. She said the state should make every effort to ensure reasonable access to New Jersey beaches — including those in front of private beach clubs and privately owned homes.

“We hope that the Sea Bright settlement shows other municipalities they can play nice in the sandbox,” LeMense said.

Statehouse Bureau writer Juliet Fletcher contributed to this report.

Contact Donna Weaver:

609-226-9198

DWeaver@pressofac.com
"

:fishing:

[nitestrikes]

Looks like they have it right in Jersey. Theres nothing like the smell of victory. Its only a matter of time. :)

"

Attorney General's Office may challenge beach-access limits in Loveladies, North Beach


Coscia said he hopes the Christie administration will favor beach access and examine Long Beach Island because tourism in New Jersey is a multimillion-dollar business.

“This settlement serves as a model and mechanism for the LBI access issue to be resolved,” he said.

“We hope that the Sea Bright settlement shows other municipalities they can play nice in the sandbox,” LeMense said.

Statehouse Bureau writer Juliet Fletcher contributed to this report.

Contact Donna Weaver:

609-226-9198

DWeaver@pressofac.com
"

:fishing:

Tom. I'm not sure if this will apply anymore. They did something with the NJ DEP where they now give the towns the right to decide access, so in that sense it seems they don't have a leg to stand on and the access will be denied.
Here is a thread I found in the NJ forum.
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=6772

I think it shows the govt doesn't want to protect the public trust. It really sucks.

[Tom Farrell]

This is a real beauty here. And don't be surprised if things are proven to be the same at Rocky Point near Broadway and Friendship!

http://www.northshoresun.com/news-articles/1261/1261-Riverhead-Town-sees-breakthrough-in-beach-rights-battle.html

"Riverhead Councilman George Gabrielsen, who was at a recent meeting with the homeowners when the town presented its findings, said, "Their jaws dropped when we showed them this."


Town attorney Dawn Thomas said the town now believes the amount of beachfront land that belongs to the homeowners is far less than they claimed.

The members of the NSBPOA better wake up and smell the coffee and not let their President bring them down. The private homeowner association in New Jersey recently found out what it was like to be sued by the A.G. on behalf of the public. The association not only lost; they lost big time.

[stormchaser]

Also, this weekend they had there annual clambake, there are no parking signs all over the area near the beach to keep people like us out, but wouldnt you know it, there were a lot of illegally parked cars yesterday so the members of the association could attend the clambake. None of them were ticketed. What do you think would happen if we tried to park down there and go fishing, we would be ticketed and towed in a heartbeat. They want to live by their own set of rules there.

I hate the old double standard. Do what I say, not what I do.:2flip:

[Tom Farrell]

Earlier this morning Willy Young, Debbie DelGatto and myself were in a meeting with Supervisor Lesko and other high ranking officials from the Town of Brookhaven such as the Town Attorney. Key topics of discussion were Shoreham Beach, Broadway Avenue, Friendship Drive, the fishing advisory board and many of the improvements that were offered by the Parks Commissioner Ed Morris. The reason the offered improvements were brought up is because Parks Commissioner Morris stated that they were to be taken care of immediately back in January and to the best of my knowledge nothing has been done yet. In my opinion the meeting went very well. As per Supervisor Lesko the Town is going to research all of the issues that were presented, and they will respond to our requests in writing. The meeting was conducted in an extremely professional and positive manner. Hopefully we will have a fair resolution in the near future. As for now, we will have to give the Town some additional time to do their own additional research. I still have good faith in Supervisor Lesko and I am sure there will be a positive outcome of this mornings meeting.

[Tom Farrell]

Notice anything different about this picture? It is the end of Broadway Avenue back in 1987.

http://www.noreast.com/discussion/postImages/189360.jpg

[DarkSkies]

Earlier this morning Willy Young, Debbie DelGatto and myself were in a meeting with Supervisor Lesko and other high ranking officials from the Town of Brookhaven such as the Town Attorney. Key topics of discussion were Shoreham Beach, Broadway Avenue, Friendship Drive, the fishing advisory board and many of the improvements that were offered by the Parks Commissioner Ed Morris. The reason the offered improvements were brought up is because Parks Commissioner Morris stated that they were to be taken care of immediately back in January and to the best of my knowledge nothing has been done yet. In my opinion the meeting went very well. As per Supervisor Lesko the Town is going to research all of the issues that were presented, and they will respond to our requests in writing. The meeting was conducted in an extremely professional and positive manner. Hopefully we will have a fair resolution in the near future. As for now, we will have to give the Town some additional time to do their own additional research. I still have good faith in Supervisor Lesko and I am sure there will be a positive outcome of this mornings meeting.


Call me cynical, but I'm tired of hearing the same old thing from that Admin. They said the same thing last year, and as you mentioned nothing has been done yet. This, despite the fishermen support that helped them get elected. Actions speak louder than words, and so far they ain't done much to live up to their promises.

Even so, I admire you and all the NY-CRF leaders and supporters for the restraint you've showed. You have done an exemplary job of keeping your cool and showing respect even when the politicians and admin haven't earned that respect. :clapping:

Through it all, you and everyone else has maintained your composure and professionalism. That means a lot. Thanks for all you and those at the NY-CRF and its supporters do, Tom. Regards to Willie as well. :thumbsup::thumbsup: :HappyWave:

[Tom Farrell]

Thank you for your support Rich. But just so you know Supervisor Lesko did make all of the changes that he promised he would make last year. Unfortunately this year Shoreham Beach was hardly open due what they claim as being financial reasons and a lack of staffing. The offers that have not been fulfilled as of yet for this year were made by the Commissioner of Parks Ed Morris. As far as the issues at Broadway Ave. and Friendship Drive go in Rocky point we have to wait and see what the outcome will be regarding the Towns stance. We know exactly what we have to do no matter what their response is. Prior to doing anything we make sure we have all of our bases covered so we can adapt and overcome any obstacles that come our way. As far as the other issues go, the offers of improvements were put on the table and we were told by the Parks Commissioner that they were going to be taken care of immediately; so we will do what we can to have him held accountable for his actions or lack there of. Supervisor Lesko informed us that he will be speaking to Ed Moriss regarding those issues today. A non resident permit and drastically improved parking should be on the way in the near future.

[DarkSkies]

Thanks for clearing that up, Tom, and continuing to play the political game. The few years that I've been covering fishermens' issues has taught me that sometimes the people at the top are aware of policy decisions by others, but appear to do nothing about it, and let the others take the blame. I didn't know if that was the case here, but I feel the top people should be held responsible, to a reasonable extent.

As you explained, that may not always be true. I'm glad to have help clarifying a perspective, and your analysis is always fair and balanced.

It must be frustrating at times, but you're right, in our society that's the way things get done. Keep up the good work, and let us know any time we can help provide support or publicity. :thumbsup:



We know exactly what we have to do no matter what their response is. Prior to doing anything we make sure we have all of our bases covered so we can adapt and overcome any obstacles that come our way.


Sounds like a carefully thought out plan, almost military like in thoroughness. I'm glad you guys have it covered.

[DarkSkies]

Brookhaven re-visited 2013
I thought in light of the access issues at Drag Island in NJ, some folks might like to read about a beach and fishing access case in LI, that is now seen as a landmark watershed case involving beach access and the rights of all to fish and enjoy our natural resources unmolested by adjacent property owners or government bureaucrats.

[Tom Farrell]

Brookhaven re-visited 2013
I thought in light of the access issues at Drag Island in NJ, some folks might like to read about a beach and fishing access case in LI, that is now seen as a landmark watershed case involving beach access and the rights of all to fish and enjoy our natural resources unmolested by adjacent property owners or government bureaucrats.

The more information the better.

[DarkSkies]

Just bringing this to the top for anyone who wants to look at a case study of one of the most important beach fishing access cases of this decade.
A key here was cooperation, and compromise.
Anger and harsh words did not get things done.
A. Compromise,
B. fishermen support/pressure over a sustained period of time
C. and adult dialogue

kept it moving, and ultimately allowed a solution to be crafted.
Thanks to all who did their part.
I was glad to have a small part in this.

For the folks who ignore any current cases, because they are not in your area, remember that once a precedent is set,, it's very difficult to overturn (Except in the most recent NJ cases where some authority may cede back to the DEP).

Food for thought-
If you don't help fight for neighboring access today, your children may not have that access tomorrow. :learn: