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Re: Sea bird behavior and what it tells us
Stage 1 - the birds know the fish are there. They can see them and sometimes smell them, but there is no real activity from predators. So the birds will tend to group up where the bait is.
Some groups sit exactly over them on the water waiting for something to happen. Others sit on the shore looking for telltale clues from the ones over the fish that the action is ramping up.
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The above pics show a group of birds sitting on a school of herring about 250' out....it's hard to see because it is a cloudy day. I took very large pics to study this at home, but had to downsize them to post. For anyone who finds it hard to see the best advice I can give is you can sometimes tell, if there is a lot of bait, where you will see a portion of the water stained darker than the rest.
With bunker it's easier to tell, because they are sometimes feeding on top.
Maybe others have experienced differently, but I have never found herring feeding on top in the daytime....it's usually the case that they are more mid-level, suspended from the bottom. So with herring, you need to be a little more perceptive than with bunker. :learn: If you want to do the same scouting, you have to teach yourself to recognize signs that bait is there, even when there are no predators to make it obvious.
As I post the rest of the pics, some viewers with sharp eyes will notice the herring as the darker stain I am talking about.
I believe this day there were 2 distinct bands of herring, one larger and one smaller.
It's hard to see that from these pics.
I prefer to do most of my scouting on overcast days....
I wish these pics could show a little more detail. This is the best I could come up with. In any event, they and the descriptions listed should help folks learn some of the things to look for. Hope you all find these helpful. :HappyWave:
Re: Sea bird behavior and what it tells us
You really do some serious scouting dark. I guess it pays off in the long run. Thanks for sharing the information.
Re: Sea bird behavior and what it tells us
Beg to differ with you here my friend
Looks like birds sitting in the water to stay warm or resting on the water where they lost sight of the bait, its the last know spot they saw bait . We follow this pattern in the boat bass and tuna fishing as we start a search pattern near the sitting birds usually in the direction the current is running. Birds fly high in the sky over herring and other schools of bait so they can keep an eye on them as they move around allot sometimes at fast speeds. The higher the birds the deeper the bait, lower flying birds usually indicate fish are pushing bait to surface and it may be an easy meal. This holds true for most seabirds except for gulls which hang on the beach. All sea birds always face into the wind as it don't ruffle their feathers. Most importantly waiting for the smell of a baits scent given off when they are being attacked. On the ocean bunker being attacked give off the smell of rotten eggs
Re: Sea bird behavior and what it tells us
^^ bickering again finchaser? You two fight more than cats and dogs. Why don't you give the guy a break? On 2nd thought don't bother, I'll just go buy some popcorn and watch.:HappyWave:
Re: Sea bird behavior and what it tells us
Quote:
Originally Posted by
buckethead
^^ bickering again finchaser? You two fight more than cats and dogs. Why don't you give the guy a break? On 2nd thought don't bother, I'll just go buy some popcorn and watch.:HappyWave:
Not bickering if your going to report facts report em right or don't report them by what you think is happening. He asks me to give my imput to help teach people here so it's not like other sites. I don't know why I even waste my time around here.
Re: Sea bird behavior and what it tells us
Quote:
Originally Posted by
finchaser
Beg to differ with you here my friend
On the ocean bunker being attacked give off the smell of rotten eggs
I don't know finchaser don't want to stand on the toes of you surf sharpies but it does look like the water is stained a bit under those birds. And it seemed to me he referenced herring not bunker. Unless there are rocks underneath it does look like it could be fish under them. (With all due respect) I wish he would have taken better pics though. Dark you MUST take clearer pics from now on!:beatin: We also want to see the background and the building markers too so we can follow your exact footsteps.;)
Finchaser don't know why you would get so rattled over this. Isn't everyone entitled to speak?
Re: Sea bird behavior and what it tells us
I say we put dark and finchaser in a steel cage. Give them their weapons of choice, and the one who walks out is the winner. Unless it's a submerged jetty it looks like a stain in the water to me too, but what do I know. I only fish 5 nights a week. Seriously guys I think we all have a case of cabin fever. The only thing that can fix that is catching some fish. As far as bass goes that is probably at least 4 weeks away until some larger ones come up from where they have migrated to offshore of Va. I heard they are now about 20 miles off. That really sucks but it will be good for the stocks as less are able to target them. Just my .02 hope no one was offended.:HappyWave:
Re: Sea bird behavior and what it tells us
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hookset
I say we put dark and finchaser in a steel cage. Give them their weapons of choice, and the one who walks out is the winner.
One of my favorite clips 2 men enter one man leaves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHU6K47qgc8
Finchaser I hope you are not offended by anything I said if so please accept my apologies. I think you all have a case of the cabin fever. But if you ask me you surf guys are mental anyway.:laugh: :HappyWave:
Re: Sea bird behavior and what it tells us
No apologies necessary from anyone just having a really really bad day. Water is stained or a shadow from a cloud, but I know where and when these were taken and sea herring schools don't look like that. Where these were taken is an area that the dirty water from up north goes offshore with the current and gulls wait for garbage ,also seabirds not gulls follow bait
I also wrote this because we discussed this on the phone, he also thought this happened in the inlet around Christmas bait doesn't ball up unless there are fish under them and then the birds work over it. I explained birds rest on water many times when water is warmer than air check out Manasquan inlet it's loaded with gull resting on the water everyday.
Hope no one takes offense and you all have a great season.:HappyWave:Back to my Kettle One.
Re: Sea bird behavior and what it tells us
Quote:
Originally Posted by
finchaser
No apologies necessary from anyone just having a really really bad day.
Hope no one takes offense and you all have a great season.:HappyWave:Back to my Kettle One.
We all have bad days finchaser. If you want your bad days to end you should dump dark and let me do the scouting for you. ds does not take clear pics, those stains in the water could be sunken boats for all we know! All you have to do is put me on the cell phone relay and I will do all the scouting you want, at your service.:HappyWave:(just kidding dark, maybe:laugh: ) by the way what the heck is a kettle one?
Re: Sea bird behavior and what it tells us
You can tell it's winter when we are going back and forth bickering over whether a stain in the water is herring or not. Inquiring minds want to know fin chaser. What is Kettle one are you cooking herring for valentines dinner?;) :HappyWave:
Re: Sea bird behavior and what it tells us
Re: Sea bird behavior and what it tells us
Ah Kettle nice vodka,it's either Grey Goose or Kettle for me on the rocks sometimes out of the bottle when I have a bad day.
Re: Sea bird behavior and what it tells us
Umm you said kettle one. Ketel One? Why didn't you say so party on dudes!:plastered::HappyWave:
Re: Sea bird behavior and what it tells us
A few thoughts on this, and then hopefully we can move on......:HappyWave:
The birds were sitting on herring.
There were no bunker around at the time and the only thing that body of fish under them could have been.... was herring.
Unfortunately there were no bass around at the time...this was late December and the fishing action had ground to a standstill....most of the migrating fish had moved South at that time.....a rash of cold spells and small noreasters was one probable cause in that happening.......
This caused a situation where where there schools of herring around, moving in and out of the the inlets and **other areas.
**For the most part there were no bass to harass or feed on these herring so in many cases they went unmolested.
I was one of the first to scout these herring, having found them soon after things cleared up from the hurricane and the ocean stabilized a bit.
Despite being told they never ventured far past the mouth of an inlet, I was finding them in deepwater harbors and other deep channel areas well beyond the inlet mouths......
I was also one of the lucky first to catch fish at night in inlets after the storm, despite being told it wasn't a night bite....and discovering that (in some limited cases)with some teen fish, that it was....
Re: Sea bird behavior and what it tells us
**Sometime after everyone (including the old timers) thought they had also vanished, on one of my scouting trips I found adult bunker in the back of a NJ River.....
I''m not going to talk about the bunker here, or it may get too confusing...;) :rolleyes:
Just the Herring......
The fish that I spotted and took pics of, were herring....with no bass in the area to pursue them, they leisurely made their way South along the beaches until they got to some of the inlets...and came in.......
This may not be the way that folks usually come upon pods of herring, but that was the case in late December 2012.
These herring pics were taken in the ocean.......
there were no rocks, or submerged boats. I know all the boulder fields out there intimately....:kooky: and can assure the readers there were no submerged boulder fields where those stains in the pics are....directly under those herring was nothing but sandy bottom.....
Sometimes, we are mistaken in our observations. :huh:
On a sunny day with clouds, it's easy to mistake cloud cover for "stains" in the water....when I took the pics it was a nasty, dreary, raw, overcast day......no shadows from clouds.
I'm far from perfect....and only human.....
Fin, while accurate 99% of the time.....
is not perfect either...........
And he was not accurate for this 1% ....(.although I will probably never live it down as he can't admit when he is wrong) :HappyWave:
I stand by my statement that those were herring.......
Suffice it to say we don't always fish the same areas......
A. When the herring showed up no bass were chasing them initially.....further proof of this is that one of the Bogans was out fishing for bass one day during this time.....they were livelining herring, and still no bass were caught....:don't know why:
B. This lasted for about a week, until the first weekend of January........
If you go to Colin the Average Angler's website...:HappyWave: you can find exactly when he was talking about the herring showing up, with bass on them....almost a week after I took these pics. :learn:
I might also mention that when you all saw me "bickering" back and forth with the old grouchy basstid here in Jan, and he was saying "the fish were gone, there was no night bite" (though truthfully the old timers had just started getting them end of day).....
And he was yelling at me telling me I was a fool for fishing at night.......
After I found them, & got over 100 fish in the 3 nights after that.... he stopped yelling for awhile........:moon: :HappyWave:
Re: Sea bird behavior and what it tells us
To wrap up........
1. I hope you folks got a little info from the herring pics I shared.
2. I'm not fighting with Finchaser.....he has imparted too much knowledge for me to disrepect him.....and he has forgotten, more than I will ever know....about fishing. :thumbsup:
3. I don't have a camera like he has....that grouchy basstid can take pics of the dingleberries on a rat's A** :laugh: with his prosumer camera......lots of times I have to think about the pics I post, before I post them....to prevent lurkers from pinpointing the location......I am reminded daily when seeing the pics that others post, that these considerations don't mean anything to them....Fin and I talk about that all the time.......different world out there today.......
4. Nonetheless....I do appreciate it when he barks at me......my Dad used to do the same, much worse......so Finchaser yelling is nothing like I was used to growing up...in fact I consider it an honor to be yelled at by the Old Grouchy Basstid...if a week goes by and he doesn't yell at me for something, I worry about the crusty old barnacle.....;) :kiss:
So you members who are concerned, please let it roll on by....(buckethead..... liked the "bickering" observation.....:HappyWave:)
5. I can't say anything more on this, or at 6pm tonight Vito, Pasquale, and Nunzio will show up at my door telling me I have to take a ride with them..shopping for cement shoes.....:ROFLMAO
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...o-s-Open/page3
Hope you folks enjoyed the info, and learned some things as well.
I hope I don't come off the wrong way in these threads, or any other threads here...........
Everything I learned in fishing, I learned the hard way....many many nights of not catching.....and not being able to see patterns......
I still get criticized for the massive blocks of time I spend out there hunting for fish when they are around....
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...=nomad+fishing
**If I came across the wrong way I apologize.......
I do know my abilities., and having spent so much time out there, I know this Winter bite very well, sometimes better than friends who live down next to the water.........but I will always be grateful for different opinions.......and the knowledge the OGB has generously imparted....:thumbsup:
When you consider all the opinions that go out on different internet websites, half of them being inaccurate and misleading......the opinions and characterizations of Fin and the Old Farts at Castaways really are worth listening to, and in many cases are spot-on explanations for what is happening, at that moment.....:fishing:
Re: Sea bird behavior and what it tells us
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DarkSkies
**If I came across the wrong way I apologize.......
I do know my abilities., and having spent so much time out there, I know this Winter bite very well, sometimes better than friends who live down next to the water.........but I will always be grateful for different opinions.......and the knowledge the OGB has generously imparted....:thumbsup:
When you consider all the opinions that go out on different internet websites, half of them being inaccurate and misleading......the opinions and characterizations of Fin and the Old Farts at Castaways really are worth listening to, and in many cases are spot-on explanations for what is happening, at that moment.....:fishing:
They seem like they really know when the fish are around. Appreciate you sharing that here. Will have to take a ride down there one day to meet them.
