TMI Dark, they should have to work for it like we all did - just saying.:HappyWave:
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TMI Dark, they should have to work for it like we all did - just saying.:HappyWave:
^ Hookset, you and others here have made your points perfectly clear,,,and I hear you...when we started there was no internet to lead you to the fish...you had to find them...
More often than not, we didn't find fish...and had to learn these things through trial and error...and many skunks in between..it was a painfully slow process...which I still feel is a beneficial way for the folks just starting out....learning one thing at a time...and learning it by being out there, walking around,, and experiencing it with their own eyes and intellect, not just from reading on the internet.....
Keeping your comments in mind....
There was a report a few days ago where a guy mentioned..."Well we lost the bunker for now....when we find them again we'll be back on the fish..." :huh:
*************
Where do the bunker go?
A few things...
Bunker are filter feeders...
Bunker will feed on algae and various forms of plankton and small marine life on the water's surface.
Generally speaking, bunker will swim into the wind....and can be found in different areas of a safe harbor or bay depending on stage of the tide...
So if the bunker are not where they were, how can you tell where they will be? :don't know why:
Sorry folks, I can't give ya's the answers, that scouting and learning is up to those who are motivated to learn, like we all had to do....
I can tell ya's that I have obsessive conversations daily, with friends who are as obsessive as me, as to where we think the bait will move, depending on the weather....
There were bunker in Raritan Bay. They held in one area for a few days, guys caught some big bass...then they left, the fishing petered out....why?
Because of a shift in wind pattern....
And my friend not only predicted when it would happen, he predicted where they would end up...with the resulting catches from that other area proving this simple theory....
Ask yourself the following questions...
When you can answer these, for each bay area you fish in....you will no longer have to rely on others to find the fish when bunker are around....
Remember the answers will be different depending on the bay you fish and the direction it is situated in...
1. Where do the bunker move when it's an East wind?
2. If it is a light East wind VS a steady stiff E wind, does that make a difference
(Hint, yes it does)
3. What if it is a SW wind, where could they be?
4. What about a W wind?
5. What about a NW wind?
6. What about a severe temperature drop, or increase, will that affect where they will be?
7. What about a North wind? Where?
8. What about a South wind? Where?
9 Does it make any difference if the ocean temps are different from the bay temps?
10 What about if the harbor or marina temps are different from the rest of the bay?
11. What about if there is a protected cove in a harbor or cove that provides a lee from the wind? Will bunker behave differently in an area like that?
Too much thinking and work i'll just go to a seafood resturant and eat some good eating seafood.
Can't believe people eat fish from Raritan bay especially fish that eat BUNKER:upck:
Finchaser I don't catch a lot of fish so if I catch a fish I'm eating it. I eat too little of them to know what a bunker eating bass tastes like as opposed to a bass that eats clams and herring. The bottom line is these fish eat crap from the bottom, ir you think of all they eat, and from what I have heard, they would eat raw human sewage if you put it in front of them.:upck: Using that logic we would never eat any striped bass at all. I am sorry you don't like them and no disrespect meant but I can't wait to eat my first striper of the year, sir!:fishing:
"crap" story in the "turd" ferguson thread. lol
That is so sick!
1. If you're a Dad looking to get your kids into bluefish, throw bunker....
2. If you're a surfcaster looking for some tackle busting action.....artificials will crush them now....but only at night....they are picky....
For the day bite the best bets are metal offerings (wobbly is best), light bucktails, and small SS poppers, with bright colors if it's overcast. If it's colder due to the weather, the fish will be on the bottom.
Rubber is the least intelligent choice,:don't know why: unless you have unlimited funds.....
If ya need more guidance, look for bait concentrations.
Go get em, folks.
Bababooey, thanks for resurrecting Shakey's post.....IMO an internet fishing classic. :clapping: :thumbsup:
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Rain, rain, and more rain.....
It's nasty, foggy, rough seas, rough surf, and in some places, downright dangerous.
Remember that no fish is worth your life, please be careful out there....
Also remember that rain or not, the migrating fish are now moving by us.
A fair case can be made that around 50% of them have already passed us by,, as this season began early and the timetables will be different this year.
They are now catching 50# bass at Orient...those are not LI Sound "Overwintering" fish, but Chesapeake, Delaware, and Hudson migrating fish that will be migrating up that way.....
If you're waiting for a 6 week long series of blitzes at the MoCo rocks and jetties......you may be betting on the wrong horse...those blitzes have been happening, 1/ to 1 hour at a time, with no consistency. So there is no point in sitting on a bench waiting for the blitz fish....at least IMO......
but there are fish to be had...inlets, pinch points, bays, points, etc, etc......this is the time to be out there, folks....
Fish don't care if it's raining...they're already wet....and the truth is...there are less fish out there now., than ever before...and the participation has dropped substantially for surf fishing....
Blink your eyes and the next scenario,. will be guys asking "Who's going to Montauk this week!" :learn:
Hickory shad....
First started near an inlet, where I noticed a lot of fish feeding. Quickly determined they were hickory shad. Changed up to add a small teaser and I got one every few casts. After a half dozen I knew it was time to press on as there were no bass or blues in the mix.
About these shad:
They are a lot of fun to catch, sometimes called "Jersey Tarpon"
They have a strong smell, I think stronger than herring.
They will hit very small plugs and small metal aggressively.
A teaser may be the best way to catch a lot of them. They frequently feed on very small bait and that night, it was smaller than 3". Either grass shrimp or rainfish. A 3" redgill produced results, but if I were to have downsized I believe I would have had them on almost every cast. They were very active in the feeding.
Some younger fly fishermen came by. I told them the fish were "in the seam". At first they didn't understand what I was talking about but gradually understood as I showed them. I hope they got some after I left.
Some observations: (from report 6-26-12)
Note the bluefish were actually harder to catch than the bass in the dark---the bluefish are smart enough to nudge the plug, realize it's plastic, and then turn away, while the bass are not.
The smaller bass were aggressive, but the keeper sized ones were halfway in before they actually fought. It was like they are affected by the lower oxygen content in the water.
This is similar to what I experienced in the Winter when the water temps went down close to 40 and the Bass were almost comatose.
From this I can hypothesize when the ocean waters are calm, I will probably have little chance at catching night bass....IMO you need some sort of an offshore swell to get these fish more active....hence the reason why some guys with bait are still catching bass....
Thank you for helping the new guys ds. I will bring some teasers with me from now on.
Fishing the old ways....
When fishing for bass gets tough, get back to basics and fish the bucktail.
It doesn't always work for me.
Sometimes, fishing in the rivers, I do better with rubber.
On the other hand, when nothing else you're throwing gets any action, it may just be, that the fish ain't there.....
You can make that assumption...but before going home do yourself a favor and give bucktailing a shot.
There's a right way and wrong way to fish a bucktail.
It should almost always have a trailer, grub, worm, rubber, or pork rind....
And if you ain't bouncing them on the bottom and losing a few along the way, (with the exception of fast current where sometimes the fish will hold in different areas other than the bottom) don't bother because you won't find fish without losing a few bucktails.....
Here's a small bass that smashed a bucktail the other night.
I stopped taking pics of these small fish because with the high water temps I want to release these fish as quickly as possible...but thought some of ya's might like to see that old-school really does work....:learn:
Smilin Bill with 4" white grub...
I just happened to be using black because of the full moon, but IMO at night, unless you're fishing a place where there is ambient light, color does not matter as much as presentation.
Attachment 15352
Fishing the old ways....
We have a lot of threads here for the new guys, fishing the old ways (courtesy of Finchaser and some of the other old farts here...:cool: :HappyWave:)
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...t=fishing+ways
There are also some good threads on bucktailing....just do a search here and you'll learn a lot.
Or go out and buy John Skinner's books, or at least the book on bucktailing....I consider him to be one of the best fishermen around today....and he's a great and patient teacher....
Cool, thanks!
The last 2 weeks as it has been developing.....
1. Almost 2 weeks ago someone who was out fishing in the daytime called me and said there were big bluefish crashing adult bunker in Monmouth county. Since the source is impeccable I set out to try and find them in the towns of that county. No luck, they weren't there yet with any consistency.....And I looked under every rock, crevice and piece of structure for these bluefish that (according to my logs) tend to show up near the end of August....
2. Earlier this week, some sitemembers were fishing a Monmouth County beach in the morning, fluking with gulp.
They reported some shark-like creatures, at least 3' long, that were finning on the surface as they were in pursuit of small pods of bait.....Some got spooled by these fish.
3. My standard thought was these were cow nose rays which now cover the whole coast of NJ and NY.....
4. What puzzled me was some of the guys reported these mystery fish biting through steel leaders of some guys who weren't fluking and had heavier gear.
This was perplexing to them as well.
We talked about them being sharks, but I kind of discounted that notion.
5. Although one had a fish on for about 20 minutes, he never got a look at the fish and lost it in the first breaker. That was as close as it got.
6. Now with this shark video posted by Tom Lynch, I think it's reasonable to say there are brown/dusky sharks all throughout the NY Bight area.....and off the beaches of LI as well. Again, where the forage is thick is where you're likely to find a few....
7. Yesterday, some friends were out fishing and landed a few 15lb class bluefish from the surf using artificials....
This being the 2nd reliable report I've gotten, I'm optimistic that guys will start catching these 15lb bluefish more regularly...
8. They, and the sharks, come in and out subject to the bait concentrations, and when the bait moves they seem to vanish offshore....but I feel we will be seeing more reports of these bigger bluefish.
When that happens I'll spend more time on bluefish, and albies.
There aren't too many fish you can catch from the surf that will give you a fight the above 2 species do....
A 15# bluefish fights to the death..:viking:.....when you're done fighting a few, at times you need new tackle.....to me the adrenalin is addictive.......
Good luck and remember it's hard to chase after these fish as there is no real consistency right now....but I believe very soon there will be....for those who think about where the highest bait concentrations are likely to show up.....
:fishing:
Good luck out there....and be careful....
Excellent call ds. We were sharking last night at Sandy Hook. brought a 5 gallon bucket of mackeral pieces and threw some out every 5 minutes. Went to the SRI earlier on the incoming and got some spots and kingfish for biat. That inlet is loaded with them.
Cut the kingfish, bottom half to eat, heads for the sharks. I don't waste anything.
Had one nice brown shark around 9pm about an hour before high tide. Looked to be about 4' and maybe 50lbs. Got it into the wash, lost it when it bit the leader. Managed 3 others, all dogfish. Bite died when the tide went slack. Didn't stick around to see if it could get better. They are there, tons of fun.
Glad to hear you got into those sharks, Paco, :HappyWave:
I think by now that fishery is winding down as well. The ocean water temps will (hopefully) continue to trend down as we shift the 2012 season from a S/SW pattern to more of a N/NW pattern.
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Sept 14 - 2012........The mullet is really starting to move out of the back bays, much quicker than some folks are predicting.
There are 90 days left before the fall fishing will start to shut down.
There is no guarantee we will have a repeat of last year's unusually robust Winter.
The time to fish is now.
Whether you catch or not, the opportunity is there. :fishing:
Buckethead,,,,fishing in the Winter spoiled me.,...was the most robust fishing I have had in years....
There are no guarantees, but i'm really hoping for a repeat...if it's half as good as it was, I'll be ecstatic. :drool:
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Mullet run 2012 -
In years past the September Full moon (Harvest Moon) has been the one yardstick when the mullet are supposed to leave the bays for the ocean. It doesn't always happen exactly this way. This year is an illustration. Some of the mullet have been streaming down the coast for almost a month now, which is a few weeks early.
Some thoughts -
When I scouted some water on the way home the previous trip, I found none, and was a little disappointed.
The thing that is driving most of the better fishing right now is larger schools of mullet. Although this may seem obvious to some, I say that to indicate that there is a good chance that if you can't find mullet in any larger numbers you may not be able to find fish. The rainfish and spearing are important as well, but in my experience the fish become a little more picky with only these 2 types of small forage... I'm always happier when there are more varieties in the forage mix because it gives you a better chance of catching them on artificials.
I wanted to add a little to this.
I was thinking that Sunday's Harvest moon would have cleared the bay area (Raritan and Barnegat) out of mullet and peanuts.
Did some scouting on the way home after last trip and found this to not be exactly true.
There are many areas that no longer hold bait, so this bay migration to the ocean is happening, albeit a little at a time.
It seems the Barnegat Bay and similar areas have dumped their mullet out faster.
Evidence of this is in the surf line at IBSP and LBI, where you can see steady schools of mullet and the little blues are all over them.
However, this has not happened to as great an extent in Monmouth County...the mullet presence in the surf line there is noticably lighter. At least it was to me when i scouted these areas.
The important thing to note is that the Raritan Bay and NY Bight area is still holding a tremendous amount of bait, spearing, rainfish, mullet, 5" peanut bunker, spot/lafayette, and small porgies, blackfish, and seabass. Even some adult bunker as well.
I look for this bait to stick around awhile, possibly exiting around Columbus Day...or sooner if a severe storm system develops.
If you can do some scouting and know what to look for, you might find some good fish.
All the legal fish and bigger blues I have found so far have been tight to the largest bait concentrations. :learn:
^
That's because it was in a holding pattern in the back bays..and the colder wind and weather is starting to push them out. Good observation, Monty...it's nice to know when you are not catching you are still thinking...on those 9 hour trips of yours.....:laugh: :thumbsup: :HappyWave:
Fall Fishing Strategies....
This fall is different. I know some will roll their eyes when I say there are less bass around, but I fish 5 nights a week during the season and this is what I'm seeing, and my logs show.
What works for me is being out there as much as I can and making a lot of sacrifices to do it.
My perception of the fishing in our general NY Bight, S Shore, and North Jersey fishing so far, is that the bass are just starting to show in numbers, making their way down from Montauk, and some finally starting to come down the E River.....
This has been a slow trickle so far.
I still am able to find bass, but spending 5-7 hours at a time at night to do it.
3 nights ago I fished the ocean, 14 bass to 15# on artificials. It was a great night of action for me.,,,because the fish were there, active, but picky......
The next night I was fishing the same general areas for 7 hours, not even a tap. :?
the bass had moved on further down the Coast., Lately I have seen that my catches have come in waves of catching, with a lot of skunking :( in between.
In my experience...
Big surf can be an asset IF there is a lot of bait, AND BASS, around, as it can concentrate them.
There are times when the bass, or blues, are just not there, or within reach of surf fishermen.
They could be 1/2 mile out passing through on the migration and we would never know it....
The surf guys need fish to be on the edges, or accessible deepwater rips, or somewhere that offers easy food to bass, to catch numbers of them.
Most often for me, The "pattern" is....one or 2 bass for hours of effort...that's why I say that I see less bass out there....ALL the areas I fish I have caught fish for years there, (in past years) in numbers this time of year.
And I just ain't seeing those numbers without a 5 to 7 hour trip at night.
Some advice,, if you want to take it....
Anyone can catch fish in a blitz, but it takes real thinking to find fish consistently if they are scattered, or not blitzing.....
Thoughts on fall surf fishing for Oct.....
1. As we near the end of the mullet run...the surf bite, has been a consistent 30 minutes to an hour in the morning.
2. Yesterday, pre dawn, I joined a lineup of 40 guys, popular NJ surf spot, because I hadn't caught a fish all night and was so thirsty for a bass, if you know what I mean,,,out of 40 of us fishing a 1/2 mile of beach, a handful of bass were caught, none by me. And where I was, there was no bite in the dark, though I have been getting them in other areas in the dark.
3. Wind and dirty water....
IMO a wind shift can be good if you have no action. If you have good action you don't want the wind to shift, you want that pattern to remain the same.,,,That N/ NE wind ruined the pattern that I had discovered, and killed the fishing in my area.
Also on sunday AM, our water was disgusting....you couldn't even see down 6 inches into the ocean. That has affected the bite, when the fish are scattered.
4. Versatility...
I'm not a bait guy, but sometimes when the water is that dirty a bunker head or clam will bring you the fish. They have an easier time finding that, than an artificial, when the fish are scattered.
5. Scattered fish....
For some of the reasons I went into above, I am seeing the fish to be scattered this time of year in the surf....and that shouldn't be,,,as I said....
To deal with this, I fish more locations, sometimes leaving one area, and fishing 1-2 miles away at another area that seems promising,,,,I have done this 7-8 times a night to get fish,,,but it is tedious and tiring,,,,,hard to keep motivated when you can't seem to find them,,,,,
6, Feeding times...
During the end of the mullet run, unless you can find bass and blues stacked up crashing bait somewhere at night, the most consistent action has been occuring when you were fishing, 30 minutes to an hour around sunrise....
I don't usually fish that time because I want more action than that when I am out there....and it has become hard for me to find, the action at the level I seek.
My best action and biggest fish this year have come from the 12-4am window.
7. Perseverance....
....you should be fishing every chance you have now....and your results should change soon.
good post turd. :thumbsup: You have to put your time in.
Thanks ledhead....I know Chas, you, and a few others have been fishing bait consistently......
My thoughts on that,,,,,
And for the guys fishing bait, (as much as it pains me to say this..) :rolleyes: you may have a better chance of nailing a bigger fish right now, with a bunker head or hunk of clam.....
The Ocean in a lot of NJ areas is in the low 50's. Bass are usually active and aggressive at that temp, but last night I found them to be very sluggish, just bumping the plug. Lots of things that didn't fit a pattern last night. Several fish hooked in the head, quite a few missed fish, and once you missed the hookset they would not come back for it.
My best assessment of this behavior is that with a temp drop of around 8 degrees in 1 week, that has been a shock to their system. You might not notice that if on a boat and come across actively feeding fish, but for the surf bite absent large quantities of bait, these bass are a challenge to catch right now, at least for me......
Remember if you are out fishing at night it's a lot different than the day bite. You may only have one or 2 shots at a quality fish. If you blow it you might just be telling your friends about "the one that got away" instead of having actual proof.
I know this because........:bucktooth:
I was that guy last night......:beatin:
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For the most consistent surf fishing right now...
There is a 1/2 hour bite now at sunrise. Local tackle shop weighed in a 15. Kicked myself for having missed out on that, but 1/2 hour or hour at a time is just not my style of fishing.,.....it's not enough for me.....
And there is a bite, about an hour, at the end of day, before and up to sundown. If you can't find them by then and don't want to spend all night looking for them, most normal people go home at that point......:laugh: ;)
Getting it done:
Small swimmers.....
Bombers
Daiwa SP
Teasers
Bucktails
Fish seem to be in the top half of the water column lately foraging for small spearing and rainfish.
"Basically, unless you're fishing clams, the fishing with artificials is poor right now....and the night bite is even worse....
Fishing with clams, however, you could get into some stable schoolie action." :learn:
It really is terrible for this time of year, if you look at historically how it has been. The water has cleaned up from the storms. The migratory fish should be in NJ waters in higher numbers. There was a big body of bass in the Delaware bay, but there should be additional numbers in our local surf, part of the Hudson migratory stock.
By most Capt's accounts, they are not finding them in numbers either.
They are not stacked up in the Hudson yet, or in the NY bight, even the traditional deeper water places and channels where they usually hold.
IMO the colder water in the NY Bight has driven much of the food out of there, and the fish with them.
So where are they?
There is no huge body of fish yet to come from Montauk.
The Moriches, Fire Island bite is slowly diminishing. Many of those fish being caught are schoolies and small keepers.
A lot of bigger fish have taken the offshore route South, and those of us not chasing them in a boat may never see them this late in the season.
The Hudson fish should be here, right at our shores, or at least in the lower reaches of the NY Bight......
And although there are a few of us catching and finding fish,.......most of the better anglers I know have packed it in for the season,......
So my question is,,,,,,Where are the Hudson River Migratory bass, if they are not in this area?...and not pending arrival from Montauk....
I put these things out there not to be negative, but to get folks to look at things realistically.
I'm still fishing.....
I have hope when the herring or bunker finally start to arrive in numbers, we will have a little better bite.
Tackle shops need your business, desperately.......If you're getting the Jones to fish now, you may be disappointed....
OTOH, the tackle shops need your business......
Some of them, without revenue for Nov and Dec, will not be around for next year....
So even if not seriously fishing, you might want to think about going down to your local tackle shops, and just buying something.......I did.....
Food for thought, folks....
^^ Thanks for the push about the tackle shops dark. As soon as Giglios is open I will go in there and buy something. Went in to surfside in long branch this week and bought some plugs. The owners name is Jack, nice guy.
Thanks for the reports BassBuddah and Rockhopper.....
:HappyWave:I keep hoping that herring or some more small bait will arrrive and save the day for this season on the South Shore LI and NJ, but at this point it doesn't seem likely......
Those fish at Montauk could be
1. fish that were pushed out of the Sound during Sandy and will make their way back into the rivers for the Winter once the herring leave......
2. or they could be Hudson fish that never made it down that far yet.......
In any event, not to be negative, but the average size of those fish is being reported as around 10#....and in the big picture there really aren't very many of them, certainly not as many as some are anticipating to arrive on the shores of NJ for a late fall bite......
Hope springs eternal in the mind of the fisherman, so I keep hoping I am wrong.....
And each trip out at night keeps reinforcing what I already know.......fat lady is around the corner.......:(
"You can't catch what ain't there"........Finchaser, circa 2012.....
The cold dirty water in most of LI and NJ IMO has been a shock to the system of the fish.
The aftermath of Sandy, and the extreme temperature drop. has pushed a lot of the bait out of our immediate area.
Even the smaller bait that I normally see this time of year, bunched up at different areas, is a hit and miss proposition.
I know guys are still optimistic.
I don't want to be the bearer of bad news either (leave that to Finchaser, the King of Gloom and Doom reports) :laugh: :HappyWave:...but without a presence of enough bait to keep the fish around, the season is winding down much more quickly than last year.
Those who have the same expectations as last year of "more fish coming from the North" are likely to be disappointed, as I just don't see it happening at this time.......
.
Now transitioning to an end of day bite....(for all those who don't want to spend hours at night fruitlessly searching for the bigger fish....AKA needle in haystack fish...:kooky:) ;)
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...ed=1#post63836
Yeppers, and they all have diapers on!
**Clams or daytime fishing are your best bet if you want to catch numbers of bass from the surf now...
(Steve, the daytime fish are small, I agree.....)
For those fishing for them,
1. please crush your barbs if fishing plugs or jigs....
2. And use small circle hooks if fishing clams.......
These fish are our future resource and it's best to minimize injury and get them back into the water ASAP.....please think of that if you are taking pics of them as well......
Thanks for reading.....:HappyWave:
Late report....
Fished 2 hours Sat night....
There have been some very brief windows to catch the small fish that are left. The larger fish that some of us were catching are gone from all the legal areas.
I wanted to get out earlier, but Sat was a 14 hour work day to catch up on a lot of things I had put aside to go hunt after the fish when they were there.....some who are jealous of that often don't realize the hours we put in, or the other prices we pay, to go after the fish when the bite is hot......:learn:
The dark side of fishing thread here is an illustrative example of that.......
Sometimes, even though you know it will be a waste of time, it's good to get out there anyway.....
The solitude to me is a big part of that package of what it means to me to get out there for a few hours.....
Final water temp - 38degrees, crystal clear water.....
**Death comes to the surf zone at those temps and below.....
(Actually, below 42 you really don't have a shot of catching bass on artificials, and below 40 your chances even of catching on bait or worms are less than winning the lottery.....):)
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...-the-Surf-Zone
The forecast weather for the next 10 days isn't promising.....even friends who have fished clams in the last week have not really had any action.....
Ocean temps are pretty stable this time of year and take a very long time to increase or decrease, absent a storm system.
As previously mentioned, the limited windows are at the end of a very sunny day or 2, when the shallower water can warm up to the 42 degree range. Although possible, that's not likely going forward in the next 2 weeks...
I'll probably give it a rest for a week or so, get the work done that I put off for so long.....:( and maybe give it a shot during the last weeks of Feb.