StripersandAnglers yearly coastwide fish stock assessment, state of the fishery

There are a lot of threads on internet sites discussing what's happening with fishing.

Take away all these types of threads, and all you would have left would be a few fishing reports, some people discussing tackle and gear, and a heck of a lot of whining and self-indulgent posts. :rolleyes:

I feel that boring as they seem, threads like the one I'm starting now are needed.

More and more I realize that there are many folks out there who have only been fishing a few short years. To them, fishing has never been richer, each year the "epic" fishing gets better and better. :wheeeee:

Given that they have only been in the game a few years, their perspective seems "right" to them, and sometimes they aren't willing to consider that they might not be looking at the whole picture.

When you broaden the timeline of fishing experience, you begin to see patterns that develop more clearly, not just over weeks or seasons, but over decades.

When you have this level of experience, you begin to see how this all ties in together, and the interlocking relationships between predator, bait, bait migration, weather changes, structure changes, and the fishing that we all love.

Some folks are comfortable with numbers.
Others say numbers can be used to prove any theory you have, provided they are manipulated the right way. It would be fair to say from this that many folks don't trust numbers.

Yet we have to have some process of documenting catches when it comes to fisheries management.

This will be a thread where numbers will be used when appropriate.
However, when it seems anecdotal examples might be more compelling, that's the format I'll use.

I want to use whatever tool available at the time, that allows me to present these "slices of fishing observation" to you folks out there.

My goal: to present
believable,
accurate, and
comprehensive observations from seasoned fishermen out there in a format that will be easily read from year to year.

I hope, in my humblest expectations, that this thread will do that, and at least get some dialogue going. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...cons/icon3.png

1. Twice yearly. I'll talk about the state of fishing, based on a combination of gov't statistics and most importantly, observations from fishemen who are out there on the front lines, fishing almost every day of the season.

I'm fortunate to have the contacts I have. :HappyWave: In some cases they don't want publicity or mention. In other cases they might come here and weigh in for a post or 2. However, the bottom line is....these will be accurate observations based on folks who fish regularly. It will be a collection of observations, from different folks in different areas, that helps to make this thread a success, and perhaps a resource for some of the scientists out there who have little contact with real fishermen. :learn:


2. These statements will be generalizations of fishing within a specfic area. Please remember that, whether it's noted or not.
And remember that there are some folks who will do much better than the observations here. If so feel free to come here and report your experience. All opinions welcome.

I know about blitzes that occur, every day. I get real-time info, every day. We may not mention them here as much, but that doesn't mean they don't happen.
However, for purposes of consistency, I think it's best to report on the fishing that the average fisherman experiences. Granted, the "average" fishermen I refer to from time to time are highly skilled, and may fish way more than most people.

Nonetheless, I think for consistency over time, it's best to present a broad spectrum of fishing, if any of this is to have credibility.

1. To my knowledge, there are no threads on internet siites that are now discussing the fishing on a coast-wide basis, to the extent that it will be discussed here on StripersandAnglers.

It's been suggested by more than one person that fisheries management would be best achieved by considering all the species in the ocean as a sort of primordial soup, all inter-dependent on each other, and all needing to be kept in balance lest too much damage be done by one dominant species.

Ex: the protection of the spiny dogfish as "endangered" has long been pointed to as a failure of fisheries management to see the big picture. By completely isolating the population figures of this species from the rest of the mix, management has allowed them to proliferate to the extent that they dominate most species in areas most favorable to them. This has shifted the dynamic in the biomass ratios for many competing fish.

This is just poor long-term planning.
It has economically affected many fishermen, both recs and comms alike.
And it is just one example that would be different, if fisheries management would look at species globally today.


2. This thread will attempt to weave in different species to show the inter-relation. Although you will mostly hear assessment of striped bass, you will hear assessments of other fish that live in the same environment, why or why not their numbers are what they are, and how they are involved together.



3. This thread will attempt to show how our perception of fishing is related to the bait migration. More studies out there focus on striped bass fishing, than many other species.
Still, not much attention is paid to bait migration. I'll attempt to show the folks browsing here how the bait and predator migration are critically intertwined.

Please remember that these are generalizations. If you have any info to supplement (or correct) what is reported, feel free to post up. Your opinion is valuable, too, but let's try to keep this thread serious, as it will be a multi-year thread. Thanks, people. :HappyWave:

I'll do one of these every end of June, and every end of December, to capture 6 months of fishing experience at a time.

Might as well start the mid-year one, as it's almost July.
These will take some time to post, as I'm involved in some other projects now, and have limited time.

I'll try to be as accurate as possible with each area.
Remember, these are based on reports I received, if it's an area I don't fish regularly.




Chesapeake Bay Assessment, Spring 2011
The striped bass fishery got off to a good start. There was some rain and runoff that diminished early catches in the upper Chesapeake. Kudos to fisheries management there for deciding to keep fishing closed for an additional few weeks during the spawn.

Even though some folks said they had good fishing, I think overall there were less trophy bass weighed in this year, than in any recent year prior. (Something to think about)

Delaware Bay Assessment, Spring 2011
It's well-known that the rips at the mouth of the Delaware Bay, or the "Cape May Rips" or simply "the Rips", produce good numbers of fish in the Spring and the late Fall. This happens as fish are coming in the Delaware to spawn in the river, and also as migrational fish come up or down from the Chesapeake Bay area,

This year, the fishing was good, but again a disturbing trend of less big fish caught than in recent years. There were less 50's caught. It seems the 30-40lb fish is becoming the new "50". In some cases, the 25lb fish are more prevalent than the bigger ones, when you look at overall reported catches.





Delaware River
Although some scientists don't consider this stock statistically significant, instead preferring to concentrate on the Chesapeake and Hudson stocks, there are a lot of people and businesses who depend on guys coming in and targeting these fish. The targeting is done during and after the spawn, though fishing is partly closed for bass during the initial spawn period. I'll refer here to the middle areas of the river, Phila to Trenton. It is here that most of the spawning activity takes place.

This year, there was about 2 weeks of very good action, beginning the first week of April. It petered off dramatically after that. Some also said the herring numbers were down. I saw that myself, as I was down there a few times, just watching the flotilla of boats. Some herring were caught. As little as 5 years ago, that herring fishery was vibrant and robust, with people lined up at various points along the shore catching them. Now, the numbers of herring have also decreased, prompting an eventual closure next year for herring fishing, and limits of 10/person this year.

Some would argue that it's all about the bait. With less herring in the river, less bass will be following them. In this particular instance, I would agree with that assessment. You can also blame the Spring rains, to some extent, which definitely affect this fishery. Water temps, turbidity, and flow affect it as well. Female striped bass need precise conditions to spawn and have their fry hatch at a good rate. Some may argue that those conditions did not all come together for 2011. To an extent, I would agree with that as well.

Remember that every year is different. You can't always have optimal conditions for a spawn, it's up to nature how that pans out.

What I'm trying to do here is highlight any trends that may be occurring, relative to the years 2005-2008, when recruitment was higher, and said to be the first years that any type of decline was noticed, statistically, or ancedotally.

Cape May beaches, South Jersey beaches, and back bay Assessment 2011 (Cape May to Avalon)

The Cape May Rips assessment was contained in the Delaware Bay Assessment. I think for consistency I'll keep things that way, As for the surf side, Cape May to Brigantine offers some early surf action around April and the beginning of May when the bass hit the shores on the Northern Migration. Most of the surf fish are caught with clams or bunker. Most of the back bay fish are caught on artificials.

On the surf side, there were quite a few fish in the 20's weighed in at the Absecon Bay Sportsmen Center and some other area shops.

The surf and back bay bite did take some time to get into gear this year, due to the cold winter we had and all the runoff.

This was generally the case for the whole area of LI and NJ, so instead of repeating it, I'll just state here... that the early spring bite was affected by colder water and cold water runoff in many areas.
Other than the usual "first of the season" bass that holdover in Oyster Creek and some other warm water areas, the NJ Spring back bay bite didn't really get into swing until around the 3rd week of March this year.

I don't believe the actual numbers overall were any better this year than previous years. If anyone has concrete data to disprove that, please help us out by posting it.

As for the South Jersey back bay areas, it's generally known that there are some decent numbers of resident fish that hold there over the year. There are even some guides that specialize in light tackle artificial, and fly fishing, for schoolies, and do quite well from Avalon to Wildwood.

I believe these "resident bass" are truly mostly year round resident fish, for the following reasons:
1. Less fishing pressure in these SJ waters.
2. A unique combination of estuaries and creeks which are only accessible by kayaks, guys on bridges, or small agile boats able to fish the flats.
3. A unique combination of forage. These areas are the first to report the standards like spearing, grass shrimp, rainfish, and killies. Whatever bait you start hearing about in NJ, you will usually hear the reports from this area first.
4. A diverse variety of predators, from fluke, blues, bass, kingfish, spot, triggerfish, sheepshead, rudderfish and other tropicals, and even some of the last remaining weakfish that aren't extinct. :kooky:
5. This can all make for an exciting and interesting fishing outing at times. You never know what you will catch in these SJ waters. True, sometimes you have lots of dead water. But if you study the area well, you can usually figure out where fish may be holding.

Atlantic County beaches 2011 Assessment, Avalon to Holgate


This area is unique in that it contains the Great Bay, another significant estuary which connects to lower Barnegat Bay.

Some of the first early-season bass are usually reported here in the Graveling Point area where the Mullica River dumps out into the bay. The Mullica River also offers some early season action with resident bass as well, and action later in the season with some almost extinct weakfish.

The thing that makes this area stand out most, IMO, is the existence of Graveling Point. This area is sometimes used by bait shops and internet sites as a frame of reference for the overall fishing action, In other words, if it ain't happening at Graveling, it ain't happening at other places yet..:laugh:

That's a good benchmark, but not always accurate. There are some who would argue that there are a dozen other early season spots better than Graveling. I would tend to agree with that. However, they aren't as well-known as GP. I'm not looking to anger any fishermen by posting them here. I'm trying my best to speak in generalities here, only referencing specific areas when needed for the assessment. :fishing: :HappyWave:


The other big focus in that area is where the bay meets the ocean, Little Egg Inlet (LEI). The rips here at this ever-changing inlet are simply known as "white water" by those in the know. It's here that a lot of early-season migratory fish are caught as they move N in search of food after the spawn, also a great fall fishing spot.

**This year, 2011, saw mostly poor fishing for bass in LEI. Around the 3rd week of May, guys started catching bigger bass. However, the ones who were, were travelling to Barnegat Inlet (BI) and North to get bass in the bunker blitzes. This was the first year in quite some time that not many large fish were caught (or reported as caught) in the LEI rips.


Overall, the guys who fished there regularly in the Spring did not generally report that this was the "best year ever". Here's a statement from one well-known Captain:
"I know north has been on fire but the south has been slow as ****." http://www.thebassbarn.com/forum/ima...thumbsdown.gif






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Ocean County to Monmouth County bunker blitzes seemed to be the only place to consistently catch very large fish this year.

The state of NJ has a coastline that's 130 miles long. The fact that the majority of the biggest fish caught in 2011 were taken in a 25 mile range from LBI to Monmouth Beach, with many of the other coastal areas being "dead zones" for bass.... that's a dismal season, no matter how you look at it. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...cons/icon9.png

Great idea, I admire your energy dark.

Don't forget LI. The bait is here, but other than the fish schooled around the bunker, the numbers are down. I only have a few fish in the 20's this year, while last year at this time I had 8 fish to 35, all caught on night on eels or artificials. I am still hoping for some good nights at Montauk to get the numbers up.
This year you have to be right on the fish when they are there. One night it's a bonanza, the next night it's like the dry oceans of Mars. There are less and less big fish around. I don't know how people can not recognize that. Thanks for doing your part to raise awareness. I hope you and your girlfriend have a great 4th of July.:HappyWave:

LBI frontside enjoyed a fairly decent spring run if you were fishing the bunker pods from a boat or the surf. Chunking bunker or snag and drop worked for most of these fish, although a few were caught with pencil poppers.

I believe fish to 49# were caught from the surf, as registered in the Spring LBI tournament.

I don't believe they registered any 50's from the surf, although a few were caught slightly off the beach by boaters.

The surf in LBI never really got into gear with any consistency for smaller bass, or big bluefish. Most of the bass were caught among the bunker schools. Other than that it was slim pickings.

It's been said that the big bluefish have been feeding offshore (5-50miles off) on the abundant bait (sand eels) that usually comes closer into the surf zone. This year 2011 that did not happen for the Spring run, and there is still some hope things will be different for the Fall. The normally abundant small forage (spearing, rainfish, etc) did not show up in the surf and jetty lines until June. This was about a month later than it usually shows up, and seemed to be the case for many areas in the NJ surf.

Barnegat Bay, Barnegat/Manasquan Inlets, Manasquan & Toms River, PP Canal, etc....

The back side of LBI, docks, marinas, bridges and sods, traditionally produces some good early season fishing. This year the Spring waters remained cold for quite longer than usual. This probably contributed to a difference in the catches back there. I and a few others have traditionally done quite well starting in mid-March to the end of April with small bass. Traditonally the "resident" fish that have wintered at Oyster Creek start to spread through the bay as the temps warm and the small forage, chiefly spearing and grass shrimp, begins to be more prevalent.

This spring, that fishing was poor, with less numbers per trip than in past years. There were several trips where I didn't mark any early season forage at all, and eventually I turned to other areas to fish. I do have contact with some anglers who did OK in the back of LBI, but the feedback I heard from them was that fishing numbers for bass on artificials and bait at night were down from the past. It was so poor that around mid-April, some of the most active LBI fishermen left LBI to search some rivers and creeks for better action.


Of course, some nice fish to 20# and larger were nailed bayside this spring. Fish that big usually come from bridges and similar structure. The guys who fish these structures regularly, claim that the fishing has been pretty inconsistent even in those areas. And, as mentioned in the Toms River assessment, there were some early schools of schoolie bass roaming the bay.



Toms River-
Toms River actually out-produced a few other spots in that general area this year. The bite held for a few weeks. What was interesting about the Toms River bite was that there was an abundance of schoolie bass 10-20". These bass were conspicuously absent from many other areas, and it was a glimmer of hope to see them active in that area.


Barnegat Inlet -
Once the water warmed up a bit in late April, the bluefish action was pretty predictable. Fish were feeding on the incoming tide to high the majority of time, and guys who were there at the right time enjoyed some good bluefish action. However, the action was with mostly smaller blues, as the monster blues people were accustomed to seeing at this time remained offshore. Bass action in Barnegat Inlet for those who fished from the jetties was sporadic, and some might have said it was poor, save for some nights when the switch was turned on. This inlet traditionally produces a good number of smaller bass to the mid teens in the spring. I don't see where any reported catches this year equaled the numbers of years past.




** Caveat...as with all areas, there are many folks fishing other than ones who report to tackle shops. I know this, and have tried to develop an extensive network of guys who fish frequently and have no need for the internet. So, in these assessments, I am taking to account both the posted reports and the ones of guys who never post, but provide me with intel.

Admittedly, not as scientific as it could be, but I hope these anecdotal short assessments will help to give folks out there a clearer picture of fishing as it actually is for the areas they fish in.











Manasquan Inlet, Manasquan River, and Point Pleasant Canal -
There are folks I know who fish these areas every day, in season. They fish from a boat or from the rocks, or from the pockets, or from the bulkheads on the sides. This year, they were pretty consistent in their grumblings...that this has been the worst year in their recent memory for spring fishing.

These grumblings came even from guys who were fishing live herring, aka bass candy. Some of these guys would fish the inlet or canal for weeks at a time with herring. Logs from past years would show that these guys had hammered striped bass consistently around these times using herring, and artificials. This year, less than a handful of nice bass were caught by those drifting herring in these back areas.

The same "late spring" conditions of cold water that affected other areas also came into play here, and should be noted for consistency. Also, the forage numbers were way down. Large numbers of bait didn't show up till mid-May. Even then they were not holding to any particular area, merely passing through. When the numbers were large, there were times guys got good numbers of fish in these areas. More often than not, guys did poorly in spite of all the hours put in.

There are a lot of charter boat captains, and others, who claim the NJ striped bass fishery is as strong as it ever was. Here's the simple truth...if the guys who are fishing live bait, herring, are not getting numbers of fish like in years past, in areas that have been consistently productive in that time frame, this is an indication of a serious problem. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...cons/icon3.png

You put a live herring in front of a bass, and it is genetically impossible for the bass to resist that herring. That's why so many guys have grown up on the herring bite. If the fish are there in numbers, you are almost guaranteed a fish.

But what if the fish are not there, in numbers.....? :huh:

Great idea DS, it seems you have really done your research.
When you get to the Ct part of it, just know that it seems our fishing is in dribs and drabs. I never catch fish with the same consistency from one year to the next. Maybe if i was out there more I would. I do tend to agree with your premise that there are less small fish around, though. And the thought that there are not that many catch and release tournaments around is a sad thing for me to accept. Not many people are talking about conservation where I fish, and that's too bad. Thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by albiealert

Great idea DS, it seems you have really done your research.
.

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Albie, although I'm pretty thorough with the research I do, I wouldn't be able to pull it together without the people who are willing to talk to me and share info. Some of the old-timers here have helped me the most in terms of seeing the big picture. They deserve a lot of the credit for the assessment I put together here. :clapping: :thumbsup: Without them, it wouldn't be nearly as comprehensive as it is. :HappyWave:

I'm just the reporter of current events, the chronicler of data. My mission is to paint a picture that is so clear that it will be easy for all to understand. So without naming a slew of names, thanks to you all. :clapping: :HappyWave:

boats aren't even getting Albie's and bass fishing is like it use to be before the moratorium, they are on the decline. collapsing fast, time to sell all my sh_t

Quote:

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Originally Posted by finchaser

time to sell all my sh_t

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What would you do if you sold it. play golf? From the posts of yours I have read, you don't seem to be the sort of guy who likes golf (not that there's anything wrong with that, I don't play golf either):d

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skinner

What would you do if you sold it. play golf? From the posts of yours I have read, you don't seem to be the sort of guy who likes golf (not that there's anything wrong with that, I don't play golf either):d

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Your right i don't play. Golf is for guy's who can't catch fish

^^ Vintage Fin, shoots from the hip, no diplomacy needed! :laugh: :clapping:



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Island Beach State Park, N to Manasquan Inlet

I thought about putting Island Beach State Park in a separate category. It is a region unto itself, with the Barnegat Jetty, Sedge Islands and sodbanks in the back, and quick access to the channels of the Barnegat Bay that can hold fish on all but the hottest or coldest days.

Generally speaking, the structure at Island Beach is shallow, sloping, with ever changing cuts, bowls, and outsucks. This differs from some of the structure slightly N, around Mantoloking to Point Pleasant, where the beach structure is generally a little deeper.

For simplicity's sake and to treat this whole area as a reqion for ongoing assessments, I will be talking about this as one whole area. Barnegat Inlet to Manasquan Inlet.









To begin with, the elimination of the bunker boats that had been crowding inshore was hailed as a victory for fishermen, and it was.

It may not have been the ultimate victory for the biomass, however. A higher % of large bass are now caught in the Barnegat to Monmouth Beach stretch than at any time in past NJ history since the moratorium That allowed the migrating schools of bunker to wander leisurely following the beach line, and for migrating bass and gargantuan bluefish to seek out these plentiful schools at random times during the day. The fishing became so good that NJ's spring run "along the beach and jetties" became legendary. People from many surrounding states, and from as far away as Canada, come to NJ to fish the spring striped bass bunker blitzes.

The fishing is truly legendary, and can be exceptional, when the fish are feeding on these bunker. One of the issues is that during this time, the chances of getting fish any other way is reduced as all the bigger fish in the area are drawn to these bunker schools.










Island Beach has for a few years been in the forefront of this action. The starting gun for this activity usually begins around Mothers' Day. It's been so consistent that you can set your fishing calendar by it......

Unfortunately, this year, that fishing, also known as the Mothers' Day Massacre, never fully developed at IBSP.http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...cons/icon9.png

In the weeks after that, it really didn't come together for that area either, save for some sporadically productive blitzes centered more around Seaside and parts North of that.

There was a well-publicized blitz on a Monday in June. If you were there you would be telling a different tale, of fish after fish in the 40# class being taken by surf guys and boaters alike....along with a few other memorable dates. Some 50# bass were taken close to the surf line, and by guys with kayaks and in boats.

Realistically, when taken into a complete perspective, the fishing for IBSP was much poorer in Spring 2011 than in previous springs. So much so, that hardcore fishermen known to be at IBSP at those times in the past had to leave their fishing grounds and travel to chase the fish, both on land and by boat.










In all fairness, there could have been several reasons for this....

1. Structure has changed. The sloping beaches of IBSP have been hammered by coastal storms in the past. There is now a 2nd sandbar throughout most water in the park that is wider and more extensive than in the past. This makes it harder for the fish to come closer during all tides. There are still some great cuts and highways. Those in the know who fish there regularly will tell you that the productive fishing "spots" are way down in proportion to total beachfront.

2. Bass Migration has shifted... Bass follow bunker. It's not brain surgery. You could make the argument that bass were not following bunker, and were offshore feasting on the sand eels and other forage. This has happened in the past. However, bunker are a great protein snack for the biggest bass and can be the easiest to eat when schooled up by the thousands. Bass will traditionally follow bunker over other, smaller forage. Just ask any charter capt as he targets bass in the bunker schools.
I put this possibility out there, but if the migration has truly shifted, more people would be talking about it. I don't see this as a realistic possibility.

3. Bait Migration has shifted... What I mean by this is that other than bunker, bait has been notably absent from much of the NJ surf this year. The sand eels that are usually abundant are offshore, from 3-50 miles out. They usually make their transition into the surf zone in the early spring, and the early to mid-fall. This hasn't happened to any reasonable extent in NJ this year. It HAS happened in LI S Shore beaches, and to a large extent on many of the N Shore beaches. Them not being available in the NJ surf could be merely a seasonal abberration. This is also mirrored in othet small forage fish, which didn't show up in the NJ surf in large numbers until June this year.
Out of all the explanations here, this lack of surf bait is one that I'm most wiling to accept now for the lack of consistency in NJ surf fishing for the first half of 2011. I know in my heart that the bass have declined as well, but want to leave no stone unturned in the quest for accuracy here.

4. We have become more efficient at catching big bass..from the Internet to better electronics, and cell phone chains where 75 guys can show up within minutes of finding big bass in a particular surf area.... :kooky:we have become more efficient at finding and harvesting these big bass.
There are no stats as to how more efficient we have become, that would be hard to quantify. Some look at reported catches to see how many bass are being harvested. I can assure you, there are many more fishing than the reports you see on internet and tackle shop sites. Many guys catch fish and have no interest in reporting it, ever.

5. More people in the sport...There are more people fishing salt water, either via surf or by boat, than at any time since the moratorium. Even if the majority of these don't catch fish, many will.

6. Maybe the answer is in the shrinking biomass... If any of the above possibilities don't fully explain it, then we are left with this possibility. There are those out there who would claim that this statement is totally untrue, their bass fishing is better than it ever has been....but the majority of folks I talk to claim the opposite. :learn:

I have fallen behind on this thread. Other things have kept me busy and I slacked off. :beatin:


After Fin let me know of the ASMFC ruling not to make any changes now until another assessment (at the urging of Tom Fote of the JCAA) .....
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...own-in-numbers...

I now know I must push on with these assessments.

As opposed to the "scientific" assessments, these are anecdotal assessments, gathered from my fishing results and the hundreds of fishermen I've met and talked to out there. The average fisherman who talks to me has been fishing 20 years or more, so I feel there is some breadth and weight to these assessments.

I could have broken this down to the Shark River Inlet as the halfway point, but decided not to. For consistency I will continue to report this way.










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Fishing from MI to SH for the first half of 2011 followed part of the usual pattern where the fish showed up when the bunker were there. Before that, isolated quantities of bass were caught on clams and artificials. This seemed to be a slow season to start because for the longest time the ocean temps stayed close to 50.

Beginning the 2nd week of May, and ending with the last week of June, this time span of 6 weeks is arguably the most productive for NJ surf guys, as the temps rise and bunker schools migrate along the surf. This is the time when anyone and everyone has a shot at a 50lb surf caught bass. in fact, several bass over 50 were caught from the surf in that region this year, the biggest I saw recorded was 52#. :d








There are some who will say this was the BEST surf season ever for NJ big bass in that time period. I would tend to agree with that statement.
Some would also ask me...Dark if you agree with that, how can you say the numbers are down? :don't know why:

A few points....

1. The bass were highly concentrated, save for a few "epic" :rolleyes: days when they were distributed through both ocean and monmouth counties. This concentration meant that if you were on the "red x" as the OFFC :HappyWave: has coined the term, you were into big fish. If you were 1 mile away, you were wondering where the fish were. :huh:


2. This great concentration of larger fish was a similar pattern of catches right before the moratorium was instituted in 1982, and as such, parallels can be drawn.


3. Although some fish in the 50's were landed, there was a notable lack of fish in that year class, and in the year class for 20lb fish and under. Surf fisherman after fisherman was marvelling that these were among the biggest fish they had ever seen, such were the glowing reports on the internet sites and gained from my personal interviews.


4. I believe there were also less 50 lb fish caught this year than at any time since guys have been getting fish in the NJ surf during these blitzes. It was said that the 30lb bass became the "new 50", because that was the year class that the majority of fish harvested seemed to represent.


5. So, if we are wiping out the 50's and the 40's, and there are a noticable lack of fish under 20#, this might indicate to an astute observer that there are certain year classes of striped bass, that are poorly represented. They are just not there.

This is not scientific, but scientific ASMFC historical evidence does tend to support a disparity in certain striped bass year classes. And, although not scientific, the reports and data I used to make my assessments here are from hundreds of fishermen, many who fish several times a week. Most of these guys were happy with their catches this Spring season, yet,,, many of them grumbled that they had to run farther and hit more locations (whether by boat or surf) to find the fish that in previious years had been described as like "fishing in a barrel of big fish".

That wasn't the case this year, with the exception of some of the charter boats that were able to dial into about 2 weeks of very consistent action as the fish seemed to be holding on some patches slightly N of Manasquan Inlet. all the way up to MB.

And now we'll mention Sandy Hook as a special case. Fishing Sandy Hook for years, it's one of my favorite places. This year, with the exception of a few good weeks in the early Spring when clams were king, and a week when bunker dumped out of the bay, the fishing has been terribly inconsistent. It's nothing of the sort that it was even 3 short years ago.

One of my long-ago mentors, who fished Sandy Hook almost every day during the season, for decades, has now abandoned Sandy Hook in search for better structure at beaches South of there.







Summary:
For the majority of guys chasing the bass, the big bass were few and far between except for a very productive 2-3 week period.

Even the "bunker pod strategy" used by many boaters was at times ineffective.
At times, there were miles of bunker, up to 12 miles in area, of bunker, with no bass or bluefish under them.

Anyone who wants to talk about how the bass are not under-fished, would be hard pressed to completely explain the above lack of bass under those miles of bunker.

Some might point to the water temps as the reason for absence of bass toward the end of June. During most of the time when the bunker pods were without any bass on them, the ocean temps were in the low to mid 60's. These temps are at the point where they are starting to become warm and naturally cause the bass to seek out cooler water. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...cons/icon3.png

However, certainly not hot enough to push the whole biomass of bass north, if there was food to be eaten here. :learn:

I don't know how many people appreciate my page-long dissertations in this thread. :scared:

I'm trying my best to present these mini-assessments to help folks understand the big picture. I feel if they have no knowledge of the areas I've been to and fished, it becomes hard for them to form an opinion.

Therefore, I try to be as detailed as possible. I want them to have this information before they decide whether striped bass are overfished or not.

I want folks to see that these are not just the rantings of "Chicken Littles" or "Conservation Zealots", :kooky: but matter-of-fact observations from people who fish a lot. :fishing:

I don't want to lose the reader with overdone assessments, though. These things need to be brought up, but sometimes too much info can overload folks' brains :argue: and they turn off..... http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...cons/icon9.png






In hopes of keeping the interest stirred, in some posts I'm going to ask folks who specialize in those areas to give their assessments. I hope you will bear with my wordiness and try to learn something here.

Raritan Ray, Raritan River, Twin River System, and NY Bight


Lord, I'm so behind on this thread,, time to get crackin before it's time to write the assessment for the 2nd half. :laugh:



Raritan Ray, Raritan River, and the Twin River System

It's well-known among fishermen that Raritan Bay and the deeper channels leading to NY Bight are staging grounds for a lot of NJ/NY resident fish. Some small ones don't make the yearly migration till they reach a certain size, feeding on the crabs, shrimp and mollusks off the piers, pilings and rocky structure.

These resident fish, while fluctuating in number, are cause for concern in years when they are not abundant, because they can be either --
anecdotal supporters of NMFS YOY figures, or show that the figures are incorrect.

I'm mentioning this because for 2 years in a row, the smallest bass have been absent from the Raritan Bay area, compared to the numbers we are used to seeing.

I know they are there, I can catch them in a yak from places you would not think of looking. And the hundreds of bait fishermen along the banks can confirm as well. However, the numbers are dwindling, I don't have a scientific reason why. :huh:


Early Spring Raritan Bay fishing is temperature dependent. This year it got off to a late start because we had a harsh winter with a lot of runoff.

Early season bass fishing in this bay is primarily a bait fishery.
By several accounts of those who fish for bass regularly, the numbers of bass were down.

The "bright spot" was the bunker. :rolleyes:
Those who know how and where to find the bunker in their usual places managed to find bass up to 25lbs, a few larger, but most from 10-20lbs. These were mixed in with bigger bluefish, as is usually the case.






Bridge fishing for big bass
I'm going to do something here I don't usually do, to prove a point, and hope it doesn't backfire....

Some of the biggest fish come from the bridges, because they are the highways the fish must use to traverse the rivers. Traditionally, when the clubs have their spring tourneys, the biggest tourney winning bass will come from a bridge deep in the night when bait is present.

That didn't happen this year.
Why?

In part because there were access issues caused by some selfish people, who were warned by the police, and then allegedly proceeded to file a formal complaint alleging they were racially discriminated against.

For the most part, bridges had less fishing access, and less fishing man-hours, put into them this year, unless you fished from a boat near them.

Even with all that drama, I know some folks who still managed to put in some serious bridge time, whether on foot or by boat. Live eels, rubber, bunker, the standard presentations that get it done from those bridges and have given them trophy fish in the past.

Hardly any trophy fish (any fish over 30lbs and up) was caught from a bridge area in the spring.

Ask most hard-core bridge fishermen how good their Spring catches were,,,, and if you can get an honest answer out of them, they'll say.... "This Spring at the bridges sucked, where are the fish?? http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...cons/icon8.png"








The rest of Raritan Bay and the NY Bight, up to Breezy Point

Many bass winter over in the deepest channels. Unfortunately, there is limited access. A guy who can pull a 20lb bass regularly from a deepwater area during his lunch hour, because he has access in that restricted area, is not going to talk about it with the NMFS or on a phone survey. But he will talk to me, and scores of folks do as long as I promise their anonymity.

They are not getting the big bass from the deepwater channels like they have been. They are still catching, but the best stories I've heard happened 3 years ago, and longer.

In the areas where there is public access, Great Kills, for example, the lack of larger, fat healthy bass this Spring over 20lbs was dismal.

There are always exceptions. I know of a few 55+ class bass that were caught right off Great Kills this year in a channel. I would assume there are some more, unreported, every year. There are a few "sharpies" who target and catch big bass in this area every year, and you will never hear about it. There are also a few kayakers who have gotten in the middle of the schools at low light and landed some fish up to 30#.

However, the numbers are not there.... not like in previous years.
Without trying to overwhelm folks reading this, Great Kills and the NY Bight is a very special area to me. It's the area where the world record weakfish was caught in May 7, 2008 by Dave Alu with Rich Swisstack guiding.

If you fish a lot, it's definitely one of your early season hotspots.
In 2008 and the years prior, almost every night there would be a few fish landed on the beaches from 25-40lbs.

How many times did this happen in Spring 2009?
2010?
Spring 2011? Virtually none http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...cons/icon9.png



Where have these big bass gone?
If they are not overfished, why would they not be there feeding on the bunker, which are never too far in the Spring from Great Kills?

Schools in the thousands, plenty of food for the biggest bass to eat, and yet not many bigger bass to be found under those schools. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...know%20why.gif















I bring this up because it's a crucial rebuttal to folks like Tom Fote and others from the NMFS and ASMFC who say there is no evidence of overfishing for striped bass......gents, feel free to take yourself to any of these areas for a span of 2 weeks deep in the night around high slack tide.

See for yourself, the guys just aren't catching any numbers of fish or big fish from them anymore....


No scientfic data is needed for this assessment. Those who fish a lot just know it to be true, because they see it happening in front of them. They are out on the water more than most, and it's plain as day to them. :learn:

I appreciate all feedback on this thread.
Your opinions, reflective of your experience, will help to make this as accurate as possible. Thanks.

Some people are afraid to discuss the realities.
They feel this is ammunition for NOAA to eventually shut things down, as they have done for other fisheries.

Although I would not like to see this happen, and would still fish despite any ban they put out there, I feel if we are not decribing things as accurately as possible, it's not possible to see the big picture with any clarity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DarkSkies

I'm mentioning this because for 2 years in a row, the smallest bass have been absent from the Raritan Bay area, compared to the numbers we are used to seeing.

. And the hundreds of bait fishermen along the banks can confirm as well. However, the numbers are dwindling, I don't have a scientific reason why. :huh:

---

There are also hundreds of illegals, asians, mexicans, russians, fishing docks, piers and bridges and keeping every striper they get their hands on, that may have something to do with it too.

around here, the illegals take everything they can possibly get with their cast nets, and mama cita cleans it and puts it in a bucket the second they drag it on shore.

they tell me it's a cultural thing.

they've wiped out just about everything around here, and the authorities don't do a dam thing.

If it's like NY they never show up for court anyway or they play no speaka the english no I.D. to even write a summons what they need to do is impound all their fishing equipment every single day or just arrest them.

yup

but when they get out obama will just give them a pat on the back and a free college education

and oh yeah free food stamps free medical care etc etc etc

Thank you for all of that dark skies I learned from reading it. You really know a lot about different areas.

You're welcome, baitstealer.

What I'm trying to do is paint a broad picture here.

It's not convincing enough to tell the average fisherman that the numbers are down. If a guy fishes almost every day, he will know that. But most people don't, and tend to see threads like this as propaganda or agenda-driven.

Although I obviously have very strong opinions on this subject as striped bass are more than just a fish to me... I want to try to present all of the things I have seen and learned on this subject to all the folks out there who doubt this.

I know this may not be completely accurate.
If anyone has any corrections or differing opinions, I welcome them.
Thanks for all the help, people, and special thanks to all those old crabs and old salts :laugh: :HappyWave: who have been the inspiration compelling me to undertake a project this size. :clapping:

Some of you may have heard of RJ.
Bob is one of the most knowledgable people I know on the topic of bass fishing in the Hudson.

He's a member here, but we lost touch.
I was in contact with him in the Spring, but lost touch again, my fault. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...cons/icon9.png

I'm going to get in touch with him, and ask if he might share his assessment with us.
My assessment and his may be different.

4 million bass allegedly spawn in the Hudson each year. I and a lot of folks I know, no longer believe that number is accurate.

However, RJ has decades of fishing experience on me, and he truly cares about striped bass. On top of that, he's a helluva writer, story-teller, and I hope to see a book by him published one day now that he's retired and has more time. :thumbsup: :HappyWave:

Hopefully he will agree to post his assessment. :fishing:








** We're now working our way up the NorthEast Coast.
When we get to Rhode Island, I will be asking our member JustEd to post his assessment. He has fished for bass since he was 5 and has a unique background doing this thing we love.
I hope we'll be lucky enough to have him post his thoughts on fishing in his home state for Spring 2011. :thumbsup: :HappyWave:

Hudson River Striped bass assessment Spring 2011

* This space reserved for RJ. :HappyWave:





*****************
RJ has graciously posted his perspective. I thank him for all the time he spent doing it. Even though I may not agree with all of it, he has more knowledge of the Hudson than I will ever have, and we are lucky to have him post here. Thanks RJ!


http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...eprise&p=53949

Rj 2

Rj 3

Jamaica Bay, or JBay, is another one of my favorite places to fish early in the season.
It's nestled amidst one of the most populated areas on the Eastern Seaboard, and has it's share of pollution, crime, and voodoo sacrifices. :scared:

http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...ica+bay+voodoo

Yet, the fishery is outstanding, truly world class, at certain times of the year.
Bunker start filtering in there in early March. Although the bass season doesn't open till April, the bass are following the bunker and predators fill that bay after the long winter.







It's so outstanding that the annual Spring JBay kayak tournament has produced some fat bass, giant bluefish, and even some trophy weakfish, for the last few years, consistently.

This was the first year that the fishing for that tourney was a bust. Some decent fish were caught, but I don't recall reading about any kayak tourney fish weighing more than 30#.

In all fairness, this was a harsh winter and rough spring. The waters took longer than normal to warm up. There was also an unfavorable weather pattern the weekend of the tourney. These poor results could be directly attributable to that. :learn:

However, I don't believe there were any 50lb class caught this year in Jbay by shore fishermen, kayak guys, or boat guys.
There were some nice fish caught in the high 30's. In fact a few friends were out on yaks and got a 38# bass one morning, that was great for them. :HappyWave:

However, as I tried to point out on one message board, where are the 40's and 50's? :don't know why:

Some answered me defensively, saying they had not just shown up yet. I don't mean to argue with people when I raise these issues. I am just trying to state the realities that we are faced with.

And the truth of the matter is that while some capts will tell you they had an outstanding season in JBay this year by searching for fish under bunker schools, most of the "big" fish they caught were in the 20# class, with a few exceptions.

This causes great concern to me and some others who discuss this obsessively.
If the largest bass are being less represented in the catch ratios here, in what is arguably the best forage fish nursery in the region....where are they? :huh:


I don't have fancy stats for anyone reading this, just years of experience, feedback from others with more experience, and these anecdotal assessments I'm offering to you folks here, one section at a time.... http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...cons/icon3.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DarkSkies

[/B]On top of that, he's a helluva writer, story-teller, and I hope to see a book by him published one day now that he's retired and has more time. :thumbsup: :HappyWave:

---

I hear that

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DarkSkies

If the largest bass are being less represented in the catch ratios here, in what is arguably the best forage fish nursery in the region....where are they? :huh:

---

darkskies the answer to that question is that there are less large bass around. They were not here in numbers at IBSP this year. A few associates did well off of Deal and Spring Lake, because all those bass were concentrated on the bunker. The truth of the matter is that every year we are killing more and more big bass because those are the trophies people want to have pictures of. I am not completely sure killing all the big bass is helping the fishery to decline, though. It is the fish in the 20-25lb class that are the best breeders. I think there might be a good number of those around, but it is hard to get a handle on this with pinpoint accuracy.

To follow along on your theory, it is possible that because there are less big bass around, folks are now over-harvesting bass from the 20-25 pound classses, and this is not a good thing. If allowed to continue at this rate, I estimate striped bass stocks will be at 1981 levels within 5 years or so from now.

The thing that we need to protect the most is our prolific breeding bass which are from 32-40 inches, on average.
This is why I strongly believe we need a slot limit with both sides clearly defined.
For example, you should be able to keep one bass from 28-31".
Or you should be allowed to keep one over 40 inches. At no time should you be allowed to keep both sizes, even on the party boats.
This would ensure that these best breeders are protected, and we would not see a decline in year classes like the ones you are talking about.
I have been following this thread and not gotten involved because I feel you are doing a good enough job at raising awareness. Keep up the good work and please do not get discouraged. The information you are putting out there seems fairly accurate from the areas I know and have fished. Thank you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clamchucker

To follow along on your theory, it is possible that because there are less big bass around, folks are now over-harvesting bass from the 20-25 pound classses, and this is not a good thing. If allowed to continue at this rate, I estimate striped bass stocks will be at 1981 levels within 5 years or so from now.

The thing that we need to protect the most is our prolific breeding bass which are from 32-40 inches, on average.
This is why I strongly believe we need a slot limit with both sides clearly defined.
For example, you should be able to keep one bass from 28-31".
Or you should be allowed to keep one over 40 inches. At no time should you be allowed to keep both sizes, even on the party boats.
This would ensure that these best breeders are protected, and we would not see a decline in year classes like the ones you are talking about.

---

Thanks for that, Clamchucker. I completely agree.
We need to protect the striped bass that have the most fecundity. ie "most prolific breeders", and they are those in the size range you pointed out.

There seems to be a lot of agreement on this from people who have fished before and after the moratorium. Finchaser, the OFFC, Surfwalker, and others have said similar things in the past.

I think when people are sitting down at the table to figure out what's best to continue the strength of the biomass, your suggestions should be at the top of the list.

I'll continue to talk about the decline of the biggest bass moving forward as I finish my coastal assessments for the year. I'll do this because I feel people relate more emotionally to a decline in bigger bass...

But you're right, that will not save the numbers overall. It's much more important to protect the bass in the 32-40" class.




Therefore, I'll probably come back and reference your words here as needed. Thanks for the kind words and for sharing your perspective. :thumbsup:

I'm really trying to move this thrread along and finish the Spring 2011 Assessments before i have to post up the fall results....:beatin:

This will include all of LI except for Montauk.

Montauk is a special case because of it's location and history.


The South Shore can be compared somewhat to the NJ shore area with some slight distinctions.

1. They don't have nearly as many jetties as are contained in NJ which is where the NJ fish are traditionally caught in the Spring.

2. Access is more regulated with State Parks taking up much of the shoreline there.


To begin with, most LI folks I talked to were happy with the LI spring run. The boat guys were very happy, the surf guys a little less...

What happens is after the bass leave NJ in June, they usually follow a path to the Fire Island/ Moriches area and sit there for a while following the bunker schools. They eventually move as the temps go up, and the bunker moves N, although those generalizations aren't always absolute nor mutually exclusive.

The reason for this thread is to raise awareness.
I believe I can say with some accuracy that less big bass were caught from the surf of LI in the Spring of 2011 than in prior years.

There was only a smattering of 40's, and I believe a surf caught 50 or 2 was weighed in.


This year the bunker seemed to linger longer than usual, but as the bass became less "available" it seems charter Capts turned to fishing for thresher sharks to fill the gap.

As I mentioned in post 31, RJ has posted his perspective on the Hudson. I think it's an interesting read, and anyone who would like to learn more about striped bass in the Hudson should check it out.....


http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...eprise&p=53949

Very thorough, guys, good job.