Time to speak up or shut up on Bass - ASMFC Sept Meetings

This is my last post on Conservation as the owner of this website does not like how or where I post. I don't agree with burying important information in ancient threads

One of these proposals has to be picked at the meeting for our area. The Beach Buggy Assc, Spring Lake and Shark River clubs are in favor of B9 this saves the most prolific breeders and maintains a 2 fish limit and eliminates the killing of 3 big fish. this would apply to beach and all recreational boats including the head and party boats.

The JCAA rejected all, siding in with RI and Maryland charter boat assc, they insist there are plenty of bass which could cause a complete shut down do to non compliance.

Plus keep in mind NJ and NY are the only 2 states where captains and mates can keep fish plus many illegally do it on the second trip of the day



September 15, 2014; 7-9 p.m.
Toms River Town Hall
L. M. Hirshblond Room
33 Washington Street
Toms River, New Jersey
Contact: Russ Allen at 609-748-2020



http://www.stripersonline.com/conten...61/id/1792351/

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Originally Posted by finchaser

This is my last post on Conservation as the owner of this website does not like how or where I post. I don't agree with burying important information in ancient threads

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Yep, still full of **** and vinegar.
When I talked to you a few days ago I thought you were down a quart. :moon: :kiss:
I see from today's post you are filled up...no top-offs necessary.....;)


Thanks as always for all you do ya grouchy basstid!
People.....this is serious....the meetings so far have had very little attendance or support......25-50 anglers each time.....with half of that coming from commercial interests......

We need to do a lot better than that....
It was clearly mentioned that if they can't get a consensus from the Rec community....there is a 3 to 4 year closure on the table....
Yes a moratorium is being discussed here....

I have been saying that all along....that the SB spawing population is only 1 million pounds away from them being mandated to shut it down.....
Willie Young has been saying that as well. He has had to listen to disparaging and cutting/ insulting threads as most of the LI Comm interests (including marina owners and some Charter and Head Boat Capts) have ganged up on him to try to discredit this fact and spew out mis-information.

I will say that a moratorium is a very drastic measure that would hurt a lot of folks financially.....neither I nor most of us want to see that happen......


So please make it your business to attend that meeting...as the OGB said...
It will be your chance to finally meet Finchaser as well......

I heard that he will be signing autographs........:rolleyes:
1 Grouchy basstid mug with each autograph.....:kiss: :HappyWave:


Attachment 18857

Plus keep in mind NJ and NY are the only 2 states where captains and mates can keep fish plus many illegally do it on the second trip of the day



September 15, 2014; 7-9 p.m.
Toms River Town Hall
L. M. Hirshblond Room
33 Washington Street
Toms River, New Jersey
Contact: Russ Allen at 609-748-2020


It's all there, all ya have to do it put in your GPS and drive......
This may be our last chance to speak up for this area.....
If ya are too "busy" to make it.....
As Fin said.....


Then don't whine about it when the changes are not to your liking....:learn:

I heard at the meeting at galloway there was like 30 guys there. Sorry I wasn't. Hope you guys can do better than we did. Good luck

Just to give the folks out there some incentive.....

This meeting is critical for the health of the stock.

The one big year class of 2011 is not yet large enough to spawn.
Male striped bass can do this around 27- 28"
Female striped bass can do it when they grow to around 28-30"


Some Capts have been recently pushing for a slot with "smaller fish" or 24" or better allowed with a larger fish.
This will end up crashing the fishery. Here's why:

1. We are already within 1MM lbs of the SSB (Spawning striped bass) population being Mandated as Overfished.
2. There is a game of semantics some are now playing. The official ASMFC line is that "Overfishing is not occurring Right NOW"..but that is doublespeak, because there is no way of knowing if in fact we have already reached the "Overfished" threshhold with the strong catches many have had in the RB/NY Bight area this spring, and what may prove to be another concentration this Fall off of either
A. Long Island
B. New Jersey - particularly the RB/NY Bight area, where recent events have produced the tendency for fish to concentrate in some areas, and be virtually absent in numbers from others.







This is what a very small group of Capts are now saying:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ******

3. Once again, the striper biomass doesn't need saving. It's as strong as ever. SAVE THE WEAKFISH!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by *********************

there are more striped bass around than ever.

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Right now...
1. we are in a crisis with the striped bass population
2. We are harvesting at a greater rate than they are reproducing.
3. This is not sustainable.
4. Some Capts don't want to discuss that publically, but the signs are everywhere...
5. One recent compelling proof is the Montauk Charter Capts encouraging their fares to only keep one fish each instead of 2..
6. We have reached a point where the SSB is within 1 MM lbs of them being mandated to shut striped bass fishing down.

If you agree with the above Capts, then don't go to any meetings. But please don't complain on here when you are not catching bass.
If you strongly disagree with the above statements, you owe it to yourselves to learn more, attend the meeting, and voice your opinion.






Some more emphasis on what Fin has posted:
The Beach Buggy Assc, Spring Lake and Shark River clubs are in favor of B9
This saves the most prolific breeders and maintains a 2 fish limit and eliminates the killing of 3 big fish.
This would apply to beach and all recreational boats including the head and party boats.


I have seen many internet discussions lately where the size "requests" from Anglers are all over the place.
Everyone post up what they think would be best for them as an individual.

The way this thing works, is they are looking for some sort of Consensus.
We have to think of which option has the best chance of being accepted across the board.

Since the 3 clubs mentioned have picked option B9....
I'm throwing in the support and will be pushing for that as well.
Remember, this isn't about the individual angler. Sometimes we have to compromise to achieve a goal.

That's how politics works, though it is distasteful to me and others. It's the nature of the process.

Make no mistake...If we Recs can't come together in a unified position here.....
The Commercial interests, which include Party Boat, Charter Boat Capts, and Marina owners...will push strongly for a less restrictive option....
And they will push hard. as for the last year they have had folks mis-representing the status of striped bass picking fights on various websites.


3 most important questions here

1. Why would the ASMFC be pushing for a 26-31% reduction in striped bass catches, if "There were more stripers than ever" or "The striped bass are stronger than ever?"

2. The ASMFC privately knows that they have put off taking action too long...hence the inaccurate statements like those above. What will anglers do to prevent a 3-year Mandated shutdown, which is now on the table?

3. We are now closer to conditions that existed before the previous moratorium, than at any time since 1982,
Why do many anglers sit on the sidelines in Apathy, throwing jabs and trying to avoid reasonable discussion, when this information is readily available, and verifiable, with a simple internet search?
Have we become that lazy as anglers that we blindly accept the things said, without checking further?

I am aligning myself with these 3 clubs mentioned, and ask that anyone who cares about really getting something done, that will work for ALL, and have a lesser chance of being opposed....
Please...come to the meeting.....and Voice your opinion for Option B9


Your support is critical.
A 3 year shutdown of striped bass is now on the table.
Yes, I agree with some that probably might not happen.....but many of you folks who don't fish a lot.....don't know how close this fishery is to a collapse.











Note: Why I am supporting B9-

1. (I also agree that a more restrictive option like B3 or B4, might be better for the long run, but there is a coalition behind the scenes here that is trying to build consensus for B9 - Because that will probably be accepted by the party and charter boats Association)
2. You cannot enter into discussions like this without considering the impact on all parties. This was passed around the various fishing clubs, surf fishermen, and anyone who fishes on boats...and seemed to be the most viable one to keep all parties happy.

Some of these Capts have been pushing for status quo or one smaller fish at 24", which IMO would add to the quick collapse of this fishery.
So....we have to try to put our differences aside, and come up with something that seems reasonable and may get the most support.

I hope that explains it, and why I took the position for option B9.
Thanks for trying to understand the political process, and for reading. :HappyWave:

Wow you put a lot of work and thought into this. Thanks dark and finchaser. I hope we can make some headway. From what I understand there is a lot going on behind the scenes as you said. Here is the latest from Press of Atlantic City
http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/n...2U0yA.facebook

Hey Capt John McMurray wrote something about it in his blog. He goes into detail about all the options. Thanks for all your hard work finchaser and dark sky.
http://www.reel-time.com/articles/co...-hearings-set/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by finchaser

The JCAA rejected all, siding in with RI and Maryland charter boat assc, they insist there are plenty of bass which could cause a complete shut down do to non compliance.

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I take it from this you mean that rhode island is one of the bad states? I fish Connecticut and some folks here say there is no problem because we have a lot of small bass in the rivers. I am by no means an expert but the little ones come and go. The problem is that we do not seem to have a lot of bigger fish. At least where I am fishing. I have never caught a striper 40 inches or bigger in the river. Maybe the guys with the boats but not where I fish.
I probably do not fish as much as the rest of you but it seems in the years I have been fishing there are less of them. Good luck on this and hope you are successful.

fwiw I was talking to some old guy on the beach this morning. He said 10 years ago he could catch small bass most of the summer at sunrise. He was giving me some fishing advice and it looked like he was a sharpie. He didn't catch bass for 2 months this summer, and just started catching them again last week. Good luck at the meeting. I agree with B9 if anyone is taking a survey.

I'm all in for B9 too. Have been working a lot of extra hours lately. Will try to make the meeting if I can. Dark I don't know how a Capt can say stripers are healthier than ever. Must be part of the raritan bay meatmen crew. What a bunch of four flusher greedy pigs!

Think you guys are right. If someone says there are more striped bass than ever its all about the benjamins for them. good luck at the meeting. Give em hell.

I should be able to make this meeting. I'm ok with B9. I would be happier with a B2. I knew this day would come. maybe 2 year earlier then predicted. Hope we nip it in the butt.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DarkSkies

So please make it your business to attend that meeting...as the OGB said...
It will be your chance to finally meet Finchaser as well......

I heard that he will be signing autographs........:rolleyes:
1 Grouchy basstid mug with each autograph.....:kiss: :HappyWave:


Attachment 18857

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Lol that is funny. I don't suppose he really looks like that or is that an actual photo?
Keep up the good fight gents will try to be there. I agree with vpass would rather have B2 but if you are trying to get something done I would vote for B9 too.

^ Nope...finchaser doesn't look exactly like that....he's much more grouchy......:laugh:
Who loves ya, Bob? :kiss: :HappyWave:

Not for anything but B9 is not really an improvement over what we have now. Still going to have guys killing 3 fish each next spring with the bonus tags.

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Originally Posted by J Barbosa

Not for anything but B9 is not really an improvement over what we have now. Still going to have guys killing 3 fish each next spring with the bonus tags.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by finchaser

1. B9 this saves the most prolific breeders
2. and maintains a 2 fish limit
3. and eliminates the killing of 3 big fish.
4. this would apply to beach and all recreational boats including the head and party boats.

TheJCAA rejected all,siding in with RI and Maryland charter boat assc, they insist there are plenty of bass which could cause a complete shut down due to non compliance.

Plus keep in mind NJ and NY are the only 2 states where captains and mates can keep fish plus many illegally do it on the second trip of the day

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^(JB......Ya gotta to learn to read a little more closely, Grasshopper.)... :):beatin:

Ok got it. Didn't see that option eliminated the bonus tag.

Reminder that the meeting is tonight at a convenient time, 7-9PM, in Toms River.....this is your chance to speak up.
Thanks. :HappyWave:

I will be at the Stony Brook LI meeting on Tue. Like these folks said support is needed. Don't let these meetings pass you by.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by finchaser

The JCAA rejected all, siding in with RI and Maryland charter boat assc, they insist there are plenty of bass which could cause a complete shut down do to non compliance.

Plus keep in mind NJ and NY are the only 2 states where captains and mates can keep fish plus many illegally do it on the second trip of the day

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The top guy at JCAA posted on the internet today saying they favor one fish at 32"? This is all so confusing. Good luck tonight gents I'm in for B9. Or if it can be done I would take B3. I don't trust half of these people out there. I read Capt John's article and that makes sense. Hope we can get something done before there are no stripers left.
http://www.reel-time.com/articles/co...-hearings-set/

I was there last night....
We had a few members from this site there....probably the highest attendance/ per member ratio of any fishing web site....:kooky:
That's not to brag.....but to make a comment on the fishermen Apathy out there....and how few folks really seem to care about striped bass and where the fishery is headed....

I also believe that all major saltwater fishing clubs had reps there...I think Berkeley had the highest # of reps there...
I believe the breakdown was around 70% recreational, 30% commercial...
This means out of a possible NJ attendee pool of about 500,000 Recreational anglers who fish for striped bass...about 30 of that group :rolleyes: showed up for this meeting...:(

(Actually, as far as turn-outs go....this was relatively strong....some of the other meetings have had 25-30 total attendance)


There is lots of talk on various websites...but thats all it is...just talk.....
This meeting was conveniently located to many of us...it wasn't the library in Galloway Township located at the end of the state, or that other place in the boondocks.... like they usually are....It was in Toms River.....At a convenient time.....
JBarbosa was there, along with some other members...:clapping:...he asked me how much easier meetings need to be to attend...for more folks to actually show up?

My answer...I think if you had meetings in every metro area convenient to all.....we could still have the same few guys and gals show up....Apathy reigns supreme among fishermen......

The Breakdown and some quick notes.....

About 47 showed up initially....by the end of the meeting that was up to 50..including the 3 running the discussion....
NJ Biologist Russ Allen
ASMFC NJ Rep Tom Fote
NJ Rep Adam Nowalsky

Russ led a detailed and informative presentation about the Coastal Stats for the striped bass and proposed changes..particularly as it pertained to NJ.......and kept it moving..
After the slide show, there was an opportunity to voice your opinion, and vote for what your option choices were...

After conferring with some other groups there....
I put the Stripers and Anglers vote in for B7.....this was because we were looking for a solution that might be acceptable to all....as explained previously....


I'll try to post some more details when I get a chance....
Thanks to all who attended......:HappyWave:
It was good to see some familiar faces and catch up.....

Dark maybe a little less caffeine. I thought you were going to climb over the microphone chair and jump Fote.;)
"I am sick of the DOUBLESPEAK!!!!" - You reminded me of the guy in the old movie Network. You should of pounded your fist on the chair when you made that point, lol. No worries brother you said what had to be said and some don't have the balls to say. I had to bounce early didn't get a chance to say hi but I will stick up for you any day. Your passion is evident. BTW where was finchaser I thought he would be one of the speakers there? Thank you for all you do.

Thanks for the updates guys.

Looks like the NY meeting last night had a very good recreational turn out (from what I read). Pushed for 1 @32 it sounds like. Great job guys.

Thank you to everyone who went to the NY and Jersey meetings, Dark big time for your efforts with Fote.

Great job gentlemen keep please keep us posted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jigfreak

Dark maybe a little less caffeine. I thought you were going to climb over the microphone chair and jump Fote.;)
"I am sick of the DOUBLESPEAK!!!!" - You reminded me of the guy in the old movie Network. You should of pounded your fist on the chair when you made that point, lol. No worries brother you said what had to be said and some don't have the balls to say. I had to bounce early didn't get a chance to say hi but I will stick up for you any day. Your passion is evident. BTW where was finchaser I thought he would be one of the speakers there? Thank you for all you do.

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Sorry I didn't get to meet you I was towards the back on the right side facing the podium with all the club guys . I didn't speak because Shark River surf anglers sent a letter choosing B7 for all 150 members. Also we speak to Russ Allen all the time. He is coming to our October meeting to answer any questions on the real status of bass not regulations. Let me know if you would like to come as my guest.

^ For those who wanted to know, Fin was there with Dave Arbeitman, owner of the Reel Seat in Brielle.
They had to leave unexpectedly for an emergency but were there for most of the meeting. Fin and Dave were sitting to my L.
The only other Tackle Shop owner there was John Bushell, owner of Betty and Nick's.

With all the impact tighter regs will have on many of us, I was kind of disappointed to see such a thin turnout.
Fin advises there may be a final meeting. If there is, I would suggest anyone who cares, to post it on every fishing website out there, ask members to put their bodies where their mouths are.....and come to that meeting.....

If we don't get more people to show up.....that means that the ASMFC will be basing the change in NJ regs, on the comments and experiences of less than 100 anglers....when in NJ alone, up to 500,000 people actively fish saltwater....and that would be pretty sad......

Something to think about......:learn:










And thanks to all for the kind words..:HappyWave:.........but we don't need kind words....we need bodies at the meetings....http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...cons/icon3.png.
If enacted, this will be one of the most significant changes in SB regs since the moratorium.....
It puzzles me why more striper fishermen don't want to get involved, at least for this one.....

Bristol Pa meeting on 9-16. Hey guys I saw this on facebook and figured I would post it here-

I attended the ASMFC meeting in Bristol Pa tonight along with a friend. We had 35 attendees and another 7 officials in attendance. First I want to say, it was great to hear almost everyone in the room speak up with an opinion and eventually a thought on the recommendations.

There were several contentious voices in the group along with several individuals who called into question the data, it's validity and how it was collected. It's always good to have every opinion heard regardless of the differences.

It was a bit disconcerting to hear several thoughts that questioned whether there is an issue with the Striped Bass Fisheries and biomass stocks.

I have surf fished the Jersey Coast since 1966 and in my opinion there comes a point when you can sense whether the fishery is under too much pressure and needs support to recover. The voices in the late 70's and early 80's were in dissension then like they are now; but there was no doubt Striped Bass stocks were scarily scarce in 1980. Although the fishery is not in the same conditions as the early 80's I feel it is better to do something now rather than a moratorium later; like the mid 80's. I asked for B-4, a change in the slot limit from 28-40 to 32-40 and no Commercial Transfer.

I called into question the number indicating 74% of the Recreational take was made by 4 states. NJ, NY, Mass and MD. NJ's value was only 380,000 lbs and NY and Mass. were over 1,000,000 pounds each. They were 66% of the number referenced. In addition Conn and Rhode Island values were not even included. NJ took less fish per mile of sand than the other states.

I also asked them to consider another value to review to monitor the catch. 3 categories: Commercial, Charter/Open Water and Sand. In my opinion more fish and bigger fish are taken in open water versus sand in the Recreational Component. After the meeting was over I asked the presenter to include a biological review on the fish. It was interesting to note the number of fishermen that do not know the age, size, weight and sexual maturity of the fish. It might have been better to share a bit of the life cycle before asking them to comment on sizes and slot limits.Glad I went.

2014 ASFMC Striped Bass meetings....
These meetings have generated a lot of internet chatter....but very little actual participation.....

RFA Position statement...
This week, the RFA has released a position statement indicating it supports
1 @ 28"
For the new proposed regulations.......

Many folks feel the RFA is "Pro Boater, Pro Industry, etc"
I ask the doubters out there.....
If the RFA is willing to take such a strong position, and ask for such drastic cuts....
How is it possible the striped bass are healthier than ever?


I think it's more likely the RFA is mirroring the general consensus of what credible, seasoned, anglers are saying throughout the East Coast.....
a. striped bass catches are down overall
b. Previously productive areas hold few bass throughout the season
c. More are noticing and worried about the future
d. We are harvesting more fish than are being reproduced.
e. If cuts this drastic are being talked about, especially by such a pro-fisherman group as the RFA....it must be true that this fishery is in serious trouble......

I agree with the above assessments and statements.
thanks for reading.....:HappyWave:

How you can get involved........

Public comments will be accepted until Sept 30...

Send e-mail to:
Mike Waine at the ASMFC
mwaine@asmfc.org
Subject line: Draft Addendum IV.

E mails have to be in by Sept 30, 2014.....
This affects all recreational fishermen.
If you can't be bothered to send an e-mail....then don't complain if the regs are not acceptable to you when finalized....











Thanks to Fin for taking the time to scan and send the documents...:clapping: :HappyWave:

Attachment 18899

"According to the science, there's a better than 85% chance that striped bass will be considered an overfished species within the next three years, and that's not an option for RFA or our members," Donofrio said. "We've talked to a lot of individuals and business owners up and down the coast, and it would seem one option in particular, one fish at 28 inches, is perhaps the fairest, most efficient, and most productive option of all in terms of sustaining this fishery through to the next stock assessment."


For the coastal recreational fishing sector, RFA views the following immediate and long-term benefits of Option B1, a bag limit of one fish at the current 28-inch minimum size limit:


1- Reducing the individual bag limit by one fish offers a 31% reduction in harvest (according to ASMFC), but would also effectively cut the number of broodstock fish harvested during the spring migration when pre- and post-spawn fish are congregated in key areas.

2- Keeping the size limit at 28 inches will reduce bycatch mortality resulting from any increase in size limit (proposed in options B2, B3 or B5); the 'one at 28' option allows anglers fishing specifically for harvest to catch their 'table' fish more efficiently without undue harm caused to undersized fish.


3- While a traditional 'slot' option to preserve and protect smaller fish and breeding fish alike is a sensible management option, RFA is concerned about the current recruitment classes; with the 2010 and 2011 recruitment years being the most robust of recent record, it's important to protect those age 4 to 5 females until better than 90% can spawn (age 5 to 8) at least once before harvest.


4- ASFMC has previously stated that reducing fishing mortality on fish aged 8-12 (32- to 40-inch fish) by half would result in "much greater egg production in the stock and an age distribution in which older fish are much more dominant"; as such, any slot option (proposed in options B4, B6, B7, B8, or B9) which focuses undue harvest pressure on more 'fertile' age/size fish in the stock could be counterproductive to conservation efforts.


5- RFA continues to place little faith in the NOAA Fisheries' (NMFS) ability to effectively account for recreational fishing effort and harvest. Specifically, options B2, B3, B4, B7, B8 and B9 indicate that "data available to estimate the percent reduction is limited because the combination of a bag limit and size limit changes simultaneously means only measured fish from the Marine Recreational Information Program (MRIP) were included in the analysis which is a small subsample of the MRIP dataset for striped bass." Since NMFS has limited data to make such calculations, there is far less confidence in calculating overall impact of such options.

Based on these five key bullet points, RFA expects to deliver an official position supporting B1, a bag limit of one fish at the current 28-inch minimum size limit for the coastal recreational fishing sector, with changes to be implemented as of 2015.

Options Chart, and address if you want to send a postcard....


Attachment 18900

Attachment 18901



(otherwise, e-mail to Mike Waine is sufficient.....)
mwaine@asmfc.org
Thanks for reading and participating......:thumbsup:

in the last 2 days many NJ charter and Party boats in what appears to be a coordinated mission took to facebook, asking their loyal customers to write asking for favorable to keeping options or status quo. Write your letters please

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DarkSkies

Sent in by Finchaser...thanks.....:HappyWave:
This is the statement by a noted Party Boat Capt.........

My vote is status quo on two fish at 28 inches, I'm sure, I'll have to pay for the consequences down the road.

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Thank you for the efforts gentlemen!
sharkhart thanks for mentioning that. Status Quo is a NO GO! How stupid could you be if as you explained it status quo will cause a shut down. What an idiot that Capt is. You should name him so I know never to go on his boat.

I just composed my letter and sent. I copied some from darks posts and some from finchaser and others.
mwaine@asmfc.org

Dear Mr Waine:
I am contacting you to express my views about the current striper regulation changes.
I have been hearing some Captains requesting status quo for stripers and asking their customers to ask for this too.
I am not a scientist but it seems to me the striper numbers have gone down. All of the professional fishermen I talk to are catching less.

Every time I am out fishing it seems to be less stripers. We know something is wrong and would support any good measures to save the striper.
B7 seeems pretty fair to me, but if 1 striper is better I would support that too.
Some points -
a. striped bass catches are down overall
b. Previously productive areas hold few bass throughout the season
c. More are noticing and worried about the future
d. We are harvesting more fish than are being reproduced.
e. If cuts this drastic are being talked about, especially by such a pro-fisherman group as the RFA....it must be true that this fishery is in serious trouble.

Also there are some abuses of the system. NJ and NY are the only 2 states where captains and mates can keep fish plus many illegally do it on the 2nd trip of each day. the bonus tag program is abused as well. If you are going to make changes, please address these too.
Thank you,
Respectfully
_____________________________

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Originally Posted by cowherder

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Thank you for the efforts gentlemen!
sharkhart thanks for mentioning that. Status Quo is a NO GO! How stupid could you be if as you explained it status quo will cause a shut down. What an idiot that Capt is. You should name him so I know never to go on his boat.

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I read the orig post too. It was Capt Ron of the Fishermen at AH. He is a tool. I would never book a trip on his boat either. He don't give a rats *** about stripers he can always fish for fluke and bottom fish. Total waste of humanity. my .02 Let's send those e-mails in fellas before these cave men get there wish.

e-mail sent thank you all.

Sent. Thanks for keeping us posted.