S&A Education Series: Understanding back bay bait migration and fishing patterns

Thought I would put this up to have a discussion about general experiences in the back bays. I have seen a lot of people fishin the last few days, not much catchin. Discussions with these people tell me that most have a favorite fishin spot and stick to it. Others are a little more adventurous and start to ask themselves if they might not be better off moving to a different area of a bay, or if it makes sense to drive to a different bay entirely when the conditions are right. When I meet those people I know that they are on the beginning of a trip that will last a lifetime. :thumbsup:

Once you know how to catch fish in one place, you should ask yourself what you did that got you that success?
Was it blind luck?
Was it skill and luck?
Do you have friends who fish all the time and simply listen to where they tell you to go? ;)

Would you like to learn and understand why the bays are at times a bonanza of feeding fish and acres of baitfish, and why at others they are a barren wasteland?

If the answer to the last question was "Yes!" or if you know some of the answers, jump in and let's talk about some of the experiences you have had in the fall, and what you have learned.

I'll try to jump in and fill in when I get time, so if ya see blank posts, I'm sorry for now, but you people have good answers too, so let's see em!

Like Sharkhart and others have said, they are key to understanding not only bait migration, but fish activity,

Different kinds of bait as the fall progresses.

Feeder creeks:


River systems:



Rips:


Hard structure:

Let's talk about all the worms, crabs, shrimp, and tiny creatures that represent the beginning of life, and the basic food source for all others.

Bait - I notice the spearing are the last to leave. We have some pods of spearing that reside in the Sound all winter, I believe.

When I was in High School, I use to fish in Gravesend bay into January with bombers. I use to catch bass 15 inches to 20 inches. A few of my buds and I use to fish behind Cesar’s bay bizarre at night. and under the lights there would be tons of spearing. We also use to get sundial same time of the year. Bass would be busting on spearing all around us.

I believe the Spearing maybe here all year long. The water Temps had to be below 50 deg. and I remeber the bass slamming the plugs.

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Originally Posted by vpass

I believe the Spearing maybe here all year long. The water Temps had to be below 50 deg. and I remeber the bass slamming the plugs.

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I think spearing hold in some of the deeper channels of the s jersey back bay areas as well.

This is the way I have seen the backbay fall fishing progress-
Big bunker tend to leave first.
Then if there are peanuts around, they will push out from the cricks and rivers and start to move along the surf.
What you have left is mullet and small bay anchovies and some other smaller stuff I have no idea what it's called. Maybe dace, killies and other minnows? I think the dace and killies stay around all year too.
The mullet move out around the first full moon in Sept/October, but there are always stragglers.
So what you have left is the small crabs, the mantis shrimp, and the tapeworms and creatures from the worm family.
You can catch fish on sandworms any time of year so that should tell you how important they are.

Anyone know anything about the mantis shrimp cycle? There are times in the fall when it seems the only things they are feeding on are these nasty huge shrimp.

my back bayspot right now is close to 100% on the outgoing tide. the bass show themselves (night) popping on spearing and grass shrimp. Sometimes you hear a boom and have no idea where it came from. Many of my casts bait flies out of the water (spearing) last night i caught an obeses 30" on a lighted boat slip was under the dock ambushing bait. His buddy was there too but he spooked.

Heavy northwest winds usually pushes bait out drops water temperature and ends it pretty quick most years

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Originally Posted by SharkHart

my back bayspot right now is close to 100% on the outgoing tide. the bass show themselves (night) popping on spearing and grass shrimp. Sometimes you hear a boom and have no idea where it came from. Many of my casts bait flies out of the water (spearing) last night i caught an obeses 30" on a lighted boat slip was under the dock ambushing bait. His buddy was there too but he spooked.

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Tiny spearing and grass shrimp are the old reliable bait of both fall and spring back bay fishing. If you can find water that is heated up for a few days, and some bulkheads or marina structure, you will find some small bass near the lights. Throw small plastic plugs or ava oo7 and you will be surprised how many of those marina areas hold fish.
An interesting thing about fishermen is we think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. Many times I have taken the boat out for a day of fishing the reefs or bay channels only to come back to the dock and find quality fishing right there under the lights.

Where do the herring fit in in this picture?

Herring come in in the late fall or winter, and depending on the temperature they leave for colder water in the spring. I don't know how the bays are set up where you are rockhopper. Usually they like to hang around near inlets or harbors. So if your back bay area is adjacent to one of those, you should see them around now. I have never seen them in the shallowest bay waters though. It's usually where there is a lot of water flowing through, as they are filter feeders. They spawn in the freshwater rivers upstream from estuaries in the spring, and also in quite a few deepwater lakes or ponds that are connected to the sea.

This is part of the fishin report for 9-23-10. I'm posting it here so people can re-visit this thread and to keep these comments as part of a historical record for NJ, and for the new folks to learn from.

Others, feel free to post as you see fit, thanks. :HappyWave:

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Originally Posted by DarkSkies

Fishin report 9-23-10 AM
Ocean Side:
There was an abundance of small bait in the wash and pockets, very small profile, not spearing, maybe rainfish approx 1-1 1/2" long. No mullet or other bait in the mix where I was.

After casting awhile and realizing the albies weren't showing, I switched to an ava 007 and picked up a few cocktail blues. Action died as it got brighter out, despite me making 2 more quick moves to similar areas holding bait.

On the way home I made quite a few stops to check out for myself some intel about bait that had been passed along to me. The back bay area was pretty dirty and weedy from the rains.

Again, I want to state that many back areas that held bait last year are barren this year. Spearing are in abundance in many places, I don't see much difference in that amount.
However, mullet, peanuts, etc are less spread out than last year, particularly peanuts. I did find peanuts about 3", and some 6" mullet at one of the places I stopped at. They were about a 70/30 mullet to peanut ratio, almost the exact opposite from the numbers at this time 2 years ago.

There are some places where the mullet still remain thick. I'm not so sure all will be leaving with this full moon, only time will tell.

And as for adult bunker, I can report to the anglers out there, look for concentrations of adult bunker starting to show along Jersey any day now. You won't see miles of them, but they are there, and moving South, either slightly offshore or within view of the beach. :dribble:

Good luck to all fishin this weekend. :fishing:

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There are some things you can count on, and some instances where they vary for year to year. Here are some of the things I've noticed lately during my fall 2010 scouting trips. I scout for bait when I'm done fishin, and am constantly trying to reason in my head "Why are the fish here, but they're not there?" ;) 90% of the time the answer to that question is bait, they go where the food is. Scouting is a valuable use of my time because it gives me a better handle of predator patterns for that specific area and time.







Thought some of you people out there might be interested as well....

1. The peanuts are still around, but not in the quantities they were in the years past. That's puzzling because of the bunker that were off the NJ/LI coast for months this summer. :huh:

Some of the peanuts are very large right now, bordering on adult size.
Attachment 12136


2. As mentioned in the above post, adult bunker have started the southern migration and are right on schedule. My experience with bunker is that they can migrate offshore, or often they will hug the coast, sliding along during the day. At night they will slide offshore.... or slip into harbors, inlets, and small deeper holes in marinas and bays.

A few friends have snagged enough in the last few days to last for weeks, and the bunker may visit certain places regularly. Look for the numbers to start increasing in many of the deepwater harbors in the area.
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I shy away from talking location because some people foolishly don't realize that will give netters a road map to find them. Netters have a sophisticated enough intel network. There's no sense in helping them to scoop all the bunker out from one spot by your "bunker location internet report". I know netters who can, and do that, regularly. :beatin:

3. Sand eels are thick right now in NJ along Monmouth and Ocean county beaches. The storm patterns push them offshore a bit, but they always slide back as the water clears. IMO this bait presence will either make or break the 2010 fall season for the surf guys.

4. Mullet - they have not all left the back areas. Many predicted they would be leaving with the full moon, and they should have. However, water temps and length of day also factor into their movement. Another factor is water salinity and storm frequency. If things move along with these storms and the continuing tides, they could be pushed out this week.

5. Spot - great late-season bass bait. There seems to be a good number of spot this year, so many that many of the northern bays/harbors that never see them are filled with good amounts. They are usually around and on their way out before the big bass come down on the Southern migration. This "departure date" is not consistent, and like mullet, depends on many variables. Their very small size makes them an ideal snack-size meal for many smaller bluefish and bass that can't swallow a whole bunker.

There's a fanatic bunch of guys that dedicate themselves to loading up on as many spot they can get and putting them in bait pens for later. They know that these are the morsels that will get them the 20 -30# bass when they're here in greater numbers.







In sum:
A lot of guys stay home when it's raining. Catch up on unfinished work, etc. :rolleyes: However a few guys who keep logs will be fishin at the places they do every year at this time, looking for some larger bass. And those bass will follow the bait. ;)

^Someone has been doing their homework. Guess all that scouting does pay off. Weren't you scouting for swans last year? ;) Well-said, dark. :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by DarkSkies

I shy away from talking location because some people foolishly don't realize that will give netters a road map to find them. Netters have a sophisticated enough intel network. There's no sense in helping them to scoop all the bunker out from one spot by your "bunker location internet report". I know netters who can, and do that, regularly. :beatin:

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:thumbsup:Thank you, I don't understand why guys have a burning desire to share this with the internet world. And then when the bunker are gone they are the very same guys that grumble.

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Originally Posted by BassBuddah

^Someone has been doing their homework. Guess all that scouting does pay off. Weren't you scouting for swans last year? ;) Well-said, dark. :thumbsup:

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BassBuddah, thanks. I was gonna respond to Finchaser's post as well, but I can see he's already deleted it. :(

Anyway, my response was that I've been fortunate to learn a lot from the old-timers of the fishing world....Finchaser/OGB, the OFFC (Old Farts Fishing Club)...Surfwalker, Willy Young, Lilco Joe and some of the Montauk crew, some of the Sr members here, and some other old salts who I have come to know and treasure the advice they have given me.

Much of what I know today I learned the hard way through trial and error. :fishing:

However, a good part of my knowledge base is reinforced and enhanced by these old-timers I'm fortunate to know. :clapping: :thumbsup:

I consider it a privelege to be able to pick the brains of people like Finchaser and the others mentioned. Their knowledge and years of experience far surpasses mine.

When you see some of my posts, the knowledge gained from them is certainly evident, and I have an eternal debt of gratitude to them.

Thanks all, for all you have done to open my eyes to many fishing issues, in the broadest possible sense. I'm just the chronicler, or reporter, here. ;) :thumbsup: :HappyWave:

thanks but as I say fishing with me is over rated:HappyWave:

^ So you say, but the peanut butter cupcakes and WaWa coffee are awesome. ;) :HappyWave:
And let's not forget the chance to listen to the Finchaser outlook on life.....better than a session with Rush Limbaugh. :)

I second that.

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Originally Posted by finchaser

Here's some others

Tulips – arrival of winter flounder
Lilac – weakfish are in town
Forsythia – bluefish and fluke are on the move
Dogwood – arrival of striped bass

September’s full harvest moon has a tremendous effect on both weakfish and striped bass which take it as a sign to start their annual southern migration. During this lunar period juvenile species of both predator and prey are driven outward along the shoreline.

Wind from the North, fish come forth
Wind from the South, fish shut there mouth
Wind from the East, fish come to feast
Wind from the West, fishing is the best

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Attachment 12195
Add this freaky plant to the mix, I think it's chrysanthemum. Every year, once they bloom, action heats up within a week. I already heard a few nice reports today, we'll see what the rest of the week brings....:lookhappy:

Oh no, Dark has switched from taking pictures of swans to pictures of flowers!!!!! :huh::huh::huh:

After I put that up, I considered someone might bust my ballz about it. Feel free, Cardoc.

The fishin was good tonight. The flowers told me it would be, and it was. :ROFLMAO :HappyWave:
What more can I say? ;) :kooky: :dribble:

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Originally Posted by DarkSkies

Attachment 12195
Add this freaky plant to the mix, I think it's chrysanthemum. Every year, once they bloom, action heats up within a week. I already heard a few nice reports today, we'll see what the rest of the week brings....:lookhappy:

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"It's nice to see some bigger fish around."
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...?t=7150&page=3

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Originally Posted by cardoc765

Oh no, Dark has switched from taking pictures of swans to pictures of flowers!!!!! :huh::huh::huh:

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You're a regular Dr Doolittle, aren't you Dark?;)

"Talks with the animals, walks with the animals" - now you talk to flowers too, that's par for the course!:laugh: :HappyWave:

^^:ROFLMAO We love you dark, but that is just too funny!

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Originally Posted by storminsteve

You're a regular Dr Doolittle, aren't you Dark?;)

"Talks with the animals, walks with the animals" - now you talk to flowers too, that's par for the course!:laugh: :HappyWave:

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Or you could call him the Pied Piper of the swans.:d

^ Whatever it takes to amuse you mooks, feel free... :moon: :lookhappy: :HappyWave:

:clapping: Bait, swans and flowers, this one has it all. Thanks for the laughs, and the helpful knowledge.

Dark was born at the wrong time. I think he would have been happier growing up in the 60's, flowers, acid trips, free love, and the hippy chicks with the hair under their arms.:plastered:

You can still find those girls, just go to any Horde or (reincarnation of) Grateful Dead concert.:d
Attachment 12245








btw Dark, I saw that report of that fish you got the other night, as Borat says very nice!:thumbsup:
:clapping: On the release.

omg, that was a disgusting pic to wake up to!
Just wondering if any of you guys are still fishing the back bays now, or if you think all the rains pushed the fish out to the ocean. Thanks

I don't think the bay action is done the bait is still schooling up my Spring spot had 16 lb. blues and bass on bunker schools in Oct. last year and I couldn't fish, the waters not that cold the inlet and ocean may produce steadier action the only way to know is to give it a shot but remember it could be overnight that the bait and fish take off personally I like the inlets it may not be great but the fish have to get through it to leave and the bait likes to hang out there, don't overlook the pockets of the inlets many of big fish hide there.Its the hardest time to pinpoint where the fish are try and keep up with the bait pods and reliable reports, for NJ pay attention to the NY reports also (the ones on here are pretty accurate) as well as your own they are coming your way but nothing is carved in stone will they hit the beach or swim offshore past us.

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Originally Posted by surfstix1963

I don't think the bay action is done the bait is still schooling up my Spring spot had 16 lb. blues and bass on bunker schools in Oct. last year and I couldn't fish, the waters not that cold the inlet and ocean may produce steadier action the only way to know is to give it a shot but remember it could be overnight that the bait and fish take off personally I like the inlets it may not be great but the fish have to get through it to leave and the bait likes to hang out there, don't overlook the pockets of the inlets many of big fish hide there.Its the hardest time to pinpoint where the fish are try and keep up with the bait pods and reliable reports, for NJ pay attention to the NY reports also (the ones on here are pretty accurate) as well as your own they are coming your way but nothing is carved in stone will they hit the beach or swim offshore past us.

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What he^^^said I haven't been out front yet with all the gnarly and dirty water

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Originally Posted by surfstix1963

I don't overlook the pockets of the inlets many of big fish hide there..

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Ding we have a winner.:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by dogfish

You can still find those girls, just go to any Horde or (reincarnation of) Grateful Dead concert.:d
Attachment 12245









btw Dark, I saw that report of that fish you got the other night, as Borat says very nice!:thumbsup:
:clapping: On the release.

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this is sick!:upck:

And all the life back there depends on the mullet and peanut bunker for the best action. By the full moon next week the mulllet should be all in the surf gauntlet. Get ready.:drool:

Mullet run 2012 -
In years past the September Full moon (Harvest Moon) has been the one yardstick when the mullet are supposed to leave the bays for the ocean. It doesn't always happen exactly this way. This year is an illustration. Some of the mullet have been streaming down the coast for almost a month now, which is a few weeks early.

Some thoughts -
When I scouted some water on the way home the previous trip, I found none, and was a little disappointed.

The thing that is driving most of the better fishing right now is larger schools of mullet. Although this may seem obvious to some, I say that to indicate that there is a good chance that if you can't find mullet in any larger numbers you may not be able to find fish. The rainfish and spearing are important as well, but in my experience the fish become a little more picky with only these 2 types of small forage... I'm always happier when there are more varieties in the forage mix because it gives you a better chance of catching them on artificials.

We had mullet well into mid October last year & large bunker in the back bays.The big blues were killing the bunker pods but livellining is what will produce the bait is too thick and very few will nail a plug.