Brookhaven bans fishing at Shoreham Beach!

Shoreham Beach fishermen jarred by 'No Fishing' signs http://www.news12.com/NewCDA/images/spacer.gif
http://images.news12.com/uploads/ima...dia/210697.jpg


07/09/08) SHOREHAM - Shoreham fishermen say the town of Brookhaven’s sudden enforcement of a no-fishing policy is bad for business, but the town says the rule is nothing new.

The fishermen say “No Fishing” signs have suddenly popped up along Shoreham Beach, which is threatening their livelihoods and local businesses.

Stanley Hentschel, owner of Rocky Point Fishing Stop, has been in business for more than 30 years. He says this year, business is already slow and that the fishing ban isn’t helping.

The town says Shoreham Beach has always had a no-fishing policy because it's a bathing beach. However, fishermen say people have been fishing there for years and only recently has the ban been enforced.

Fishermen say they want a designated fishing area as a compromise. Brookhaven Parks and Recreation Commissioner Edward Morris says that won’t happen if it will jeopardize the safety of the people using the beach and bathing in the waters.

C/mon guys we have to get organized or it will happen everywhere. There won't be anyplace left to fish without sneaking in! From another site, hope this is ok:


I went to Shoreham Beach today , News12 was covering the story of Brookhaven banning fishing at this beach. The reporter said this story would be on today , earliest would be 5pm and run throughout the night and I would guess maybe tomorrow also.

There were 7 or 8 people there, including :

Stan Hentschel from Rocky Point Fishing Stop who has been fighting access issues on the North Shore since the 70's. Stan's email to News 12 initiated coverage of this story. I have known Stan since I was a kid, he gave me my first job working at his store. 27 years later it has come full cirlce and I am glad I was able to go out there and support him.

Willie Young was there also. I called Willie last night to let him know about this event, Willie drove 50 miles each way on the spur of the moment to be there. I thank Willie immensely for all he has done for Long Island fisherman, this guy deserves alot of credit.

Fred Golafaro from The Fisherman was there also.

A local fisherman who works at Rocky Point Fishing Stop was there as well as some other local fisherman.

We spent about 30 minutes giving the reporter some background on the issue and she interviewed Fred, Stan , Willie and the local fisherman on camera.

One guy brought his rod which is supposedly against the rules, a lifeguard made a half hearted attempt to stop him by yelling out 'no fishing allowed', but nothing happened after that.

Lets see how the piece comes out , but mission accomplished, we are fighting back and raising awareness. If they can shut down this beach they can try to do it to any beach. North Shore out there is terrible for access, there is no legal fishing or legal access for about 15 miles from Shoreham to Mt Sinai , this is totally unacceptable and probably illegal.

Jane Bonner is in charge of this, there was a public meeting in which she "happily" reported that fishing access would be closed. We have to make our vioces heard on this guys, beginning of all the access dominos falling down. Complacency will get us nowhere. Here's a c&p of the issues she cited, and her phone #. Call that # as much as you can, be respectful, and voice your opinion as a tax-paying fisherman who votes!

According to her, Miss Jane Bonner shut the place down to fishing due to the following:

1. homeless people living in the woods leaving dirty diapers and other filth
2. homeless people living in derelict boats in the woods
3. Shoreham was never on the night access list
4. she has recieved numerous calls from locals praising the action now that they can enjoy the beach again
5. illegal activity that the police cannot totally control
6. she is just enforcing existing regulations, not restricting anyone

If you want to hear it first-hand, call her @ 631.451.8894

Seems to me that if homeless people, dirty diapers and illegal activity are there then it should be closed to the beach bathers and opened to the fisherman.

I don''t usually fish NY, but I'll call her today to support you guys. Access lost in one area is a collective loss for all fishermen.

Agreed, I'll put my two cents in.

BB, I don't fish in NY, but I'll make a call in support. good luck.

Here's the link to the News12 site. Click on the video link to see the video and the interview with the town idiot who thinks fishermen are endangering tha safety of bathers.http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...ons/icon13.gif

http://www.news12.com/LI/topstories/article?id=214199#

I called, she was "unavailable". I'll keep calling. We have to keep up the pressure on this, people.

Alright guys, I can at least make a phone call, will call that # tomorrow.

Update - here is a letter sent from a guy, rpsurf, on another site. It's a great letter.:clapping: Other people can send variations of that if they are looking for something to use as a template. I think it would be good if you changed it up a little so it doesn't get ignored as a form letter:

Subject: Questions about Shoreham Beach fishing access
Message: Ms Bonner,

The other day my dad and I went to Shoreham Beach to fish this spot for the first time this year. Needless to say we were perplexed and shocked when the attendant told us fishing is prohibited from the beach.
Typically we would walk down to the jetty by the creek and fish there, often times doing very well and enjoying beach access my taxes pay for.
Needless to say I am quite bothered that it seems I can't even walk this beach with fishing equipment to get to my fishing spot which is almost one mile away from any bathers. Can you clarify exactly what is the bathing area? I don't have an issue respecting the space of swimmers, and quite frankly I 'm not sure why anyone would fish in a bathing area, as long as the designated bathing section doesn't encompass 10 miles of the beach.

Additionally I would think if the entire beach is designated a bathing area I would assume there would be more then 1 lifeguard to cover that much of the beach. The other interesting fact is the beach on the other side of the jetty in Wading River doesn't have such a restriction. I'm very interested in your views concerning this public access matter and where you stand.

Thank you for your time.

Regards,


Here's the response he got. To me, is looks like she is just "passing the buck". Please keep up the pressure with letters and phone calls, guys. Remind them that they accept federal dollars for beach replenishment every time there is a severe storm or hurricane aftereffects. UNLESS they are accepting ZERO dollars from the federal gov't, they have an obligation to allow access to ALL people, re the Public Trust Doctrine.


Thank you for your recent letter regarding fishing at Brookhaven’s Shoreham Beach.

Since being elected to the Brookhaven Town Board, I have worked to improve the quality of life for residents in our area, provide the important services and preserve the character of our communities, at an affordable price for our taxpayer.

As you may know, the issue you wrote about has been an ongoing question regarding beach users and the Town, which resulted in increased code enforcement action by Supervisor Foley last year.

To address your specific questions regarding fishing or other recreational use of our town facilities I am forwarding your letter to our Parks Commissioner, Ed Morris.

Thank you for contacting me on this important issue. I will ask Commissioner Morris to keep me apprised of this situation on your behalf.

Sincerely yours,

Councilwoman Jane Bonner

Another update:

Here's the latest from this guy, rpsurf. He seems like he will not give up, gotta hand it to him! :clapping: But it's not just one guy's fight! We all need to apply pressure, and respectful letters and e-mails, so they know we mean business! They will only be swayed if they feel we have "weight" or numbers of fishermen behind us, and that they face a possible legal challenge.

Please try to put your own letters together, using this as a model, and let the town know that we are standing up to be counted. Thanks, guys. :thumbsup: (and thanks to RP surf for not giving up) :thumbsup:


From Ms Bonner:

Thank you for your follow up e-mail. I have taken the liberty of forwarding your e-mail to the Law Department and our Town Attorney for their review. Most of the questions are in legal in nature and I would like to have them follow up with you directly. Once again, thank you for your concern and opinions.

Councilwoman Jane Bonner

Follow up from RpSurf: :clapping:
Dear Councilwoman Bonner,

Thank you for taking the time out to reply to my email. You are to be commended for your contributions to society and making Brookhaven a better place to live for your constituents.

But your actions on behalf of the few wealthy beachfront property owners only serve a small few and not the public at large. Banning fishing at Shoreham beach is misguided and illegal. This action is having a negative impact on all tax paying residents of Brookhaven from a quality of life standpoint and having a negative impact on the local economy.

I am aware of the letter from Supervisor Foley which states fishing is legal outside the designated bathing area. Why are there "No Fishing " signs posted in multiple places at the beach ? Why are lifeguards telling people there is no fishing ? Why have lifeguards been instructed to call the police if someone on the beach possesses a fishing rod ? Is it illegal in the United States of America to possess a fishing rod ? Does Shoreham have it's own laws that are contrary to the law of the land.

Those beaches belong to everyone, not just the wealthy property owners who would like keep "undesirables" off of "their" beaches. There are miles and miles of beaches there that can be shared by everyone. Fisherman have no desire to fish near the designated swimming area. It is not safe and no fisherman would do this, so banning fishing at a swimming beach just appears to be a smokesreen to keep as many people off the beach and out of the area as possible.

Are there any documented cases of swimmers being injured by fishermen ? I highly doubt this.

I have also heard that Shoreham has a homeless problem, so they banned fishing. I find it impossible to believe that a rich beachfront community has a homeless problem. How does banning fishing help solve this problem ? If banning fishing solves a homeless problem, then I suggest you get on the phone with the mayors of major cities in the United States and let them know you have a
solution to their problem. Mayor Bloomberg , we have a solution to the homeless problem, just ban fishing in NYC !!

Many fisherman are very angered by this short-sighted , self serving , illegal ban on fishing. There are many organized groups who represent fisherman and actions like yours only serve to increase people's resolve. Word of these illegal action has spread very quickly amongst the fishing community and people are taking action. Fisherman and their friends vote and are surely not going to look positively on anyone associated with this ban.

I urge you to do the right thing and restore fishing at Shoreham Beach. Hopefully this can be done without a legal challenge, but I assure you this issuewill not die until the ban is removed.

I personally am spreading the word on this to everyone I know in Brookhaven. As word spreads on this issue amongst the people of Brookhaven, Long Island and beyond, those associated with
banning fishing on this beach are not going to be looked upon kindly. There is no legitimate , moral or legal basis for this ban and anyone aside from the wealthy few who live near the beach will surely see this.

Sincerely Yours,

John>>

New to this site, thanks fishlipper.

Thanks to everyone supporting the Shoreham fight. We all need to stick together, there is strength in numbers. What has been done at Shoreham is reprehensible.

Get involved as much as you can, dont assume someone else is taking care of issues like this. We all need to be involved. Join a club if you are not already in on. Organizations like Montauk Surfcaster Association, LIBBA, Kayak Fishing Association of New York and the New York Coalition of Recreational Fishing are fighting for fishermans rights. The more members they have and funding the better off we will all be.

John

I took rp surf's letter, changed it up a bit so it doesn't look like spam, and sent my version out to her. Keep up the pressure guys, or it's over. rp, I'm kinda slow to do things sometimes, your letter made it a lot easier to get started. Great letter, hope you win this.:clapping:

rp, I c&p your letter and response from another site. Looks like we might have to push harder on this one. Seems what the town is doing is illegal and violates the public trust doctrine, yet they are sticking to their guns. guys, we need more letters and more participation, please. Keep sending those letters. Maybe we can organize a group of fishermen to go there, at least 50 of us, and challenge the law, call the news reporters ahead of time, and see if they will summons us? What say you, rp?


[Today I received a letter from Edward P. Morris who is the Commissioner of the Department of Parks, Recreation and Sports, and Cultural Resources. ]

Dear Mr. Russell,

This letter is written in response to your inquiry regarding fishing at Shoreham Beach, an issue that has received a great deal of attention during the summer months.

Shoreham Beach is a Town bathing beach and fishing has never been permitted at this facility. In fact, Section 10-11 of the Brookhaven Town Code specifically forbids fishing at Town beaches for obvious safety reasons.

While the shoreline of the beach extends for a significant distance both to the east and west of Shoreham Beach, the land on either side of the Town's beach is private property and the owners have asked the Town to inform our residents that trespassing is not allowed on their beach.

I have taken the liberty of enclosing a list of Town of Brookhaven designated fishing areas on both the North and South Shores, where fisherman can safely cast their lines from the shore or Town fishing piers.

[and rp's thoughts- hope you don't mind I quoted you, rp]:D

Some of my thoughts on this letter :


1) Using the excuse that this is a bathing beach and there is a safety issue is just a smokescreen to cover up the real issues. The beach is extensive at Shoreham, this is not a safety issue.

2) I guess the commissioner and the residents choose to ignore the Public Trust Doctrine.

3) Supervisor Foley has sent letters to people that state fishing is allowed outside the bathing area, so that letter contradicts this one.

Thanks for support. Right now the plan has been to send letters and emails to as many people as possible to put the pressure on and hopefully someone in a position of power takes positive action. I dont think this part has played out yet, but if this doesnt work we may have to take it to the next level with organized protest, etc.

The local paper has an article coming out on Friday, I am interested to see if the politicians or town is quoted in the story , depending on what happens in this article could decide next steps.

Stay tuned.......

My response :

Commissioner Morris,

I received your letter today in response to my questions and comments on the ban of fishing at Shoreham Beach. Thank you for taking the time to respond to me, I appreciate it. I have some follow-up questions for you, if you could please address these I would appreciate it.

You state that fishing has never been permitted at this beach. People have been fishing here for years, why now is Brookhaven enforcing this town code ?

Why do you say there are obvious safety concerns ? The beach here is extensive and the allowable bathing area is roped in and patrolled by lifeguards. How are fisherman who are fishing outside of the designated bathing areas causing a safety issue ? Have there been any documented incidents in the past of fisherman injuring bathers ?

Supervisor Foley has sent letters to people indicating fishing is allowed outside of the designated bathing area, what you are saying contradicts this. Can you please explain this ?

Numerous sources have said the real reason the beach has been closed to fishing is littering issues, is this the case ? How do you know fisherman have done this ? If so, shouldn't law enforcement ticket these individuals ? Banning fishing completely because of the actions of a few individuals is not the answer. Does the Town of Brookhaven ban driving because some people are speeding or driving drunk ?

Are you and the Town of Brookhaven familiar with the Public Trust Doctrine ? People are allowed to fish and be on the beach up to the mean high tide mark, so the beach the residents think is "theirs" is not "theirs". Access must be provided to these beaches. The town has stated that anyone who even comes onto the beach with a fishing rod will have Public Safety called on them. First of all possessing a fishing rod is not illegal and second , the Public Trust Doctrine allows for access to the beach. The Town of Brookhaven is violating the Public Trust Doctrine.

Instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water and banning fishing, I suggest the Town attack the real problem here. Tax paying residents are being deprived of the resources they pay for and this ban is having a negative impact on the local economy. If littering is an issue , utilize the enforcement and cleaning services that tax payers are paying for. I would also suggest working with fishing organizations to do beach clean-ups if needed. Many organizations sponsor beach clean-up outings and fisherman work to clean up the beaches. Real fisherman are not the problem here, in fact most real fisherman do not leave litter and are excellent stewards of the beach and sea.

Regards,

John

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rpsurf5

My response :

Commissioner Morris,

I received your letter today in response to my questions and comments on the ban of fishing at Shoreham Beach. Thank you for taking the time to respond to me, I appreciate it. I have some follow-up questions for you, if you could please address these I would appreciate it.

You state that fishing has never been permitted at this beach. People have been fishing here for years, why now is Brookhaven enforcing this town code ?

Why do you say there are obvious safety concerns ? The beach here is extensive and the allowable bathing area is roped in and patrolled by lifeguards. How are fisherman who are fishing outside of the designated bathing areas causing a safety issue ? Have there been any documented incidents in the past of fisherman injuring bathers ?

Supervisor Foley has sent letters to people indicating fishing is allowed outside of the designated bathing area, what you are saying contradicts this. Can you please explain this ?

Numerous sources have said the real reason the beach has been closed to fishing is littering issues, is this the case ? How do you know fisherman have done this ? If so, shouldn't law enforcement ticket these individuals ? Banning fishing completely because of the actions of a few individuals is not the answer. Does the Town of Brookhaven ban driving because some people are speeding or driving drunk ?

Are you and the Town of Brookhaven familiar with the Public Trust Doctrine ? People are allowed to fish and be on the beach up to the mean high tide mark, so the beach the residents think is "theirs" is not "theirs". Access must be provided to these beaches. The town has stated that anyone who even comes onto the beach with a fishing rod will have Public Safety called on them. First of all possessing a fishing rod is not illegal and second , the Public Trust Doctrine allows for access to the beach. The Town of Brookhaven is violating the Public Trust Doctrine.

Instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water and banning fishing, I suggest the Town attack the real problem here. Tax paying residents are being deprived of the resources they pay for and this ban is having a negative impact on the local economy. If littering is an issue , utilize the enforcement and cleaning services that tax payers are paying for. I would also suggest working with fishing organizations to do beach clean-ups if needed. Many organizations sponsor beach clean-up outings and fisherman work to clean up the beaches. Real fisherman are not the problem here, in fact most real fisherman do not leave litter and are excellent stewards of the beach and sea.

Regards,

John

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Excellent letter! :clapping::clapping::clapping: will try to send one like it today, looks like they have their heads in the sand on this one. good luck with your fight. http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...ons/icon14.gif

rp, excellent letter. I'm mostly fishing in NJ, but will try to call tomorrow and ask her office if they can explain how this does not violate the Public trust doctrine.

Fantastic letter. Well-written and to the point. Sending one out today. Great job keeping the interest up in this, rp, fish, storm, and others. We can't let this one die.:thumbsup:

Sent my letter. Was wondering if there are any updates?

http://www2.timesreview.com/SUN/Stor..._fishermen_psh

That last paragraph sums it up, beach front residents trying to keep us off of "their" beach. I guess they have not heard of the Public Trust Doctrine. Really sickening that they have been able to do this.

Keep writing letters and emails if you have not already.

Groups like LIBBA, MSA , Kayak Fishing Association of New York and the Coalition of Recreational Fishing are working on this issue, stay tuned.

Found one copy of the Public Trust Doctrine on this site, under laws and regs. RP, I was wondering what your thoughts were about getting 50 or 100 of us together, and all going up there, peacefully, but with the intention of fishing, and letting News12 and other news organizations know that we are going up there?

We could do it on a Sat or Sunday when a lot of people would be able to make it?

I feel if a lot of us went up there, and again, did this peacefully, no aggressive statements, or confrontations, and let them know that we intended to exercise our rights under the Public trust doctrine, I don't think they would arrest us. If they did, they would have to defend going against the Public Trust Doctrine in court.

I may be wrong, but I don't think any town, in NY or NJ, wants to try a case that might prove to be a landmark, especially if they stood to lose, and set a precedent?

Since you seem to be a driving force behind organizing people on this, rp, what say you?

Do you think we could pull it off? Could we get enough guys together? How about if we publicized it weeks ahead of time, on a few websites? I'm thinking if we showed up with a minimum of 50 or 100 fishernem, respectful but assertive of our rights, they just would not want to arrest us without starting a tremendous legal battle. Even if arrests were made, I would do it. :thumbsup:

What's the worst they can charge us with, disorderly persons? Trespassing? None of that stuff could be proved in court, it they chose to take it that far. I'm sick of the syrupy sweet smiles put out by officials, while we all know privately they detest us. :burn:

Sometimes you have to be willing to take a stand on something. I'm willing, rp, do you think you can rally some other guys to do this, or is it a stupid idea? I just feel we have to do something more, letters aren't cutting it anymore.




The Public Trust Doctrine
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...ead.php?t=1044

The set of laws that guarantees all people rights to the water. First set by the Roman Emperor Justinian around A.D. 500 as part of Roman civil law, the Public Trust Doctrine establishes the publics right to full use of the seashore as declared in the following quotation from Book II of the Institutes of Justinian:

“By the law of nature these things are common to all mankind – the air, running water, the sea, and consequently the shores of the sea.

No one, therefore, is forbidden to approach the seashore, provided that he respects habitations, monuments, and the buildings, which are not, like the sea, subject only to the law of nations.”

Influenced by Roman civil law, the tenets of public trust were maintained through English common Law and adopted by the original 13 colonies.

Following the American Revolution, the royal right to tidelands was vested to the 13 new states, then to each subsequent state, and has remained a part of public policy into the present time.

Through various judicial decisions, the right of use upheld by the Public Trust Doctrine has been incorporated into many state constitutions and statutes, allowing the public the right to all lands, water and resources held in the public trust by the state, including those in New Jersey.



Here's the link:

http://www.nj.gov/dep/cmp/access/pub...s_handbook.pdf

RP, I c&P the article so people could read it, hope you don't mind:




Fishing prohibition raises concerns over beach access

Fishermen say 'No fishing' signs violate their rights

By Peggy Spellman Hoey

http://assets.mediaspanonline.com/pr...8_ViewSize.jpgSun photo by Peter Blasl Stan Hetterich (left), owner of Stan's Bait and Tackle in Rocky Point, with fisherman Matt Hentschel. The pair is not happy about new signs prohibiting fishing at Shoreham Beach. SHOREHAM--Most anglers are gone fishin' this season, though not at Shoreham Beach.

While local residents are happy with Brookhaven officials' decision to place "No fishing" signs at Shoreham Beach -- one of several measures, including a security camera, entrance gate and lifeguard, implemented for safety purposes -- local fishermen have their hackles up fearing their beach access has been restricted.
Stan Hentschel, owner of the Rocky Point Fishing Stop, said he has watched beach access on the North Shore whittled away since the '80s. First government officials banned beach driving, then they placed"No parking" signs on public access roads; now, he says, all that remains of fishing access on the North Shore from Cedar Beach in Mount Sinai to Shoreham is eight night-fishing parking spots.

"Down at Cedar Beach they are elbow to elbow," he said.
Mr. Hentschel believes the "No fishing" signs violate the Public Trust Doctrine, which allows residents beach access below the mean high water mark.

"I almost died in Vietnam," Mr. Hentschel said. "I'll be damned if someone got on that beach and told me I couldn't walk on that beach or fish on that beach."

Willie Young, president of the New York Coalition of Recreational Anglers, a lobbying group of about 9,000, said the organization will request a meeting on beach access with town officials in light of this recent issue.

"There's been access issues before on the North Shore," Mr. Young said of a 15-mile stretch of private beaches. "The civic associations try to keep the residents out, but this is a town beach and we have the right to fish there."

Deputy Supervisor Jim LaCarrubba, however, disagreed that officials are trying to restrict the fishermen's beach access, because it is written into the town code that fishing is prohibited at all beaches and parks throughout the bathing season. He also noted that night fishing is prohibited at Shoreham Beach as well.
"We are looking to protect the interests of all the residents. We have been dealing with a lot of issues with the Shoreham Beach property," he added.

In 2006, a Coram woman who stayed after hours died after being struck by lightning, and a Patchogue man drowned near the jetty. In August 2007, town officials announced more than 100 arrests for incidents ranging from trespassing to illegal ATV use and over-fishing at the beach.

Under the town code, Brookhaven public information officer Kevin Molloy explained, fishermen could be issued field appearance tickets for fishing both during beach hours and after dusk, because of the prohibition on night fishing. If issued a ticket, fishermen would then be required either to appear in court or pay a fee, he said. Either fishing offense is punishable by a fine of up to $250 or 10 days in jail, according to Mr. Molloy. Also, fishermen caught after dusk at Shoreham Beach could be issued parking violations, which run about $50, he said. Mr. Molloy also noted the town does not have jurisdiction outside Shoreham Beach. The private property surrounding the beach falls under the jurisdiction of the Suffolk County Police Department, he said.

Despite the town's stance, Mr. LaCarrubba said the supervisor's office would not likely turn the fishermen away if they wanted to meet and discuss the beach access issue.

John Skinner, a Wading River resident and an editor for Nor'east Saltwater Fishing magazine, noted that while most fishermen are solitary individuals who have no desire to fish while bathers are present, they should at least be able to walk below the mean high water mark from Wading River to Orient Point, despite private property owners' gripes. The town's recent fishing ban could set a beach access restriction precedent elsewhere, he said.

"This is a Brookhaven thing where you got people saying, 'This is mine,'ââ" Mr. Skinner said of private property owners.
Second District Councilwoman Jane Bonner noted that in past summers people accessing the town beach to fish would often trespass on the private beach property nearby. It was not uncommon to find these individuals sleeping on the beach and an assortment of debris ranging from bait containers to broken glass, and even dirty diapers, she said.

Since Ms. Bonner has had the signs installed, she said, residents are ecstatic that the town code is finally being enforced on the beach.

"The residents didn't feel safe when they went with their children to the beach," she said.

Kathy Anderson, a resident of Shoridge Hills, one of the private beaches affected by public safety issues on Shoreham Beach, said residents feel much safer with the new security measures.
"I understand [Councilwoman Bonner] is catching some heat from the fishermen, which I understand how they feel," Ms. Anderson said, "but this is a private beach. We weren't able to enjoy our private beach."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stormchaser

http://assets.mediaspanonline.com/pr...8_ViewSize.jpgSun photo by Peter Blasl Stan Hetterich (left), owner of Stan's Bait and Tackle in Rocky Point, with fisherman Matt Hentschel. The pair is not happy about new signs prohibiting fishing at Shoreham Beach. SHOREHAM--Most anglers are gone fishin' this season, though not at Shoreham Beach.


1. If you could get Matt Hentschel to lead a group of us, at least 50 or 100, with news cameras, I think it would be political suicide for them to arrest us. Even if they did, how could they ever defend against this in court?

"Down at Cedar Beach they are elbow to elbow," he said.
Mr. Hentschel believes the "No fishing" signs violate the Public Trust Doctrine, which allows residents beach access below the mean high water mark.

"I almost died in Vietnam," Mr. Hentschel said. "I'll be damned if someone got on that beach and told me I couldn't walk on that beach or fish on that beach."


2. Maybe Willie Young could be there, too? This guy has to have some juice, and he's right, they can't legislate what we can do below the mean high water mark. There's no way they could ever win in court.
Willie Young, president of the New York Coalition of Recreational Anglers, a lobbying group of about 9,000, said the organization will request a meeting on beach access with town officials in light of this recent issue.

"There's been access issues before on the North Shore," Mr. Young said of a 15-mile stretch of private beaches. "The civic associations try to keep the residents out, but this is a town beach and we have the right to fish there."

Deputy Supervisor Jim LaCarrubba, however, disagreed that officials are trying to restrict the fishermen's beach access, because it is written into the town code that fishing is prohibited at all beaches and parks throughout the bathing season. He also noted that night fishing is prohibited at Shoreham Beach as well.
"We are looking to protect the interests of all the residents. We have been dealing with a lot of issues with the Shoreham Beach property," he added.


3. What does a woman struck by lightning and a "swimmer" drowning near a jetty, or dirty diapers, have to do with fishermen? When was the last time any of you took your baby fishing with you??:huh:
In 2006, a Coram woman who stayed after hours died after being struck by lightning, and a Patchogue man drowned near the jetty. In August 2007, town officials announced more than 100 arrests for incidents ranging from trespassing to illegal ATV use and over-fishing at the beach.


4. I don't see how they would arrest 50 or 100 fishermen who came up with news cameras. It's like a chess game. Arresting us would be the first gambit in a game that they would end up in checkmate, because their laws could then be challenged in court, as being superceded by the public trust doctrine. this would be a bad position to put themselves in, because if they lost, other towns would face the same issues, threat of lawsuits that they could not win.

Eventually, they would have to make an agreement with the fishermen, allowing us to claim our already existing access below the mean high water line.
Under the town code, Brookhaven public information officer Kevin Molloy explained, fishermen could be issued field appearance tickets for fishing both during beach hours and after dusk, because of the prohibition on night fishing. If issued a ticket, fishermen would then be required either to appear in court or pay a fee, he said. Either fishing offense is punishable by a fine of up to $250 or 10 days in jail, according to Mr. Molloy. Also, fishermen caught after dusk at Shoreham Beach could be issued parking violations, which run about $50, he said. Mr. Molloy also noted the town does not have jurisdiction outside Shoreham Beach. The private property surrounding the beach falls under the jurisdiction of the Suffolk County Police Department, he said.

Despite the town's stance, Mr. LaCarrubba said the supervisor's office would not likely turn the fishermen away if they wanted to meet and discuss the beach access issue.

John Skinner, a Wading River resident and an editor for Nor'east Saltwater Fishing magazine, noted that while most fishermen are solitary individuals who have no desire to fish while bathers are present, they should at least be able to walk below the mean high water mark from Wading River to Orient Point, despite private property owners' gripes. The town's recent fishing ban could set a beach access restriction precedent elsewhere, he said.


5. This is one example why there will be problems for years to come. This woman has no concept or understanding of the Public Trust Doctrine, so to her we will always be tresspasers, unless we can prove in court that we are not.
Kathy Anderson, a resident of Shoridge Hills, one of the private beaches affected by public safety issues on Shoreham Beach, said residents feel much safer with the new security measures.
"I understand [Councilwoman Bonner] is catching some heat from the fishermen, which I understand how they feel," Ms. Anderson said, "but this is a private beach. We weren't able to enjoy our private beach."

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I would not look forward to getting arrested, but the question you have to ask yourself as fishermen is: What measures am I willing to take to preserve my rights as a fisherman? Will I stand up and do something about it, or just stand idly by while others do the work for me?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stormchaser

Found one copy of the Public Trust Doctrine on this site, under laws and regs. RP, I was wondering what your thoughts were about getting 50 or 100 of us together, and all going up there, peacefully, but with the intention of fishing, and letting News12 and other news organizations know that we are going up there?

We could do it on a Sat or Sunday when a lot of people would be able to make it?

I feel if a lot of us went up there, and again, did this peacefully, no aggressive statements, or confrontations, and let them know that we intended to exercise our rights under the Public trust doctrine, I don't think they would arrest us. If they did, they would have to defend going against the Public Trust Doctrine in court.

I may be wrong, but I don't think any town, in NY or NJ, wants to try a case that might prove to be a landmark, especially if they stood to lose, and set a precedent?

Since you seem to be a driving force behind organizing people on this, rp, what say you?

Do you think we could pull it off? Could we get enough guys together? How about if we publicized it weeks ahead of time, on a few websites? I'm thinking if we showed up with a minimum of 50 or 100 fishernem, respectful but assertive of our rights, they just would not want to arrest us without starting a tremendous legal battle. Even if arrests were made, I would do it. :thumbsup:

What's the worst they can charge us with, disorderly persons? Trespassing? None of that stuff could be proved in court, it they chose to take it that far. I'm sick of the syrupy sweet smiles put out by officials, while we all know privately they detest us. :burn:

Sometimes you have to be willing to take a stand on something. I'm willing, rp, do you think you can rally some other guys to do this, or is it a stupid idea? I just feel we have to do something more, letters aren't cutting it anymore.




The Public Trust Doctrine
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...ead.php?t=1044

The set of laws that guarantees all people rights to the water. First set by the Roman Emperor Justinian around A.D. 500 as part of Roman civil law, the Public Trust Doctrine establishes the publics right to full use of the seashore as declared in the following quotation from Book II of the Institutes of Justinian:

“By the law of nature these things are common to all mankind – the air, running water, the sea, and consequently the shores of the sea.

No one, therefore, is forbidden to approach the seashore, provided that he respects habitations, monuments, and the buildings, which are not, like the sea, subject only to the law of nations.”

Influenced by Roman civil law, the tenets of public trust were maintained through English common Law and adopted by the original 13 colonies.

Following the American Revolution, the royal right to tidelands was vested to the 13 new states, then to each subsequent state, and has remained a part of public policy into the present time.

Through various judicial decisions, the right of use upheld by the Public Trust Doctrine has been incorporated into many state constitutions and statutes, allowing the public the right to all lands, water and resources held in the public trust by the state, including those in New Jersey.



Here's the link:

http://www.nj.gov/dep/cmp/access/pub...s_handbook.pdf

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This is a really good idea, I think through the various web sites and organizations we could get a big turnout. Logisitics would need to be worked out to make sure town was not able to thwart this effort and also in case someone got arrested that person was represented.

Right now various fishing organizations are involved with this. The New York Coalition of Recreational Fishing is going to write a letter to the town and request a meeting, that looks to be the next step. The Coalitions sole existence is to protect fishermans rights and lobby politicians. This organization was started by Montauk Surfcaster Association who has a good track record of fighting for our rights. After that we will need to see what happens, but I would think a demonstration could be in order if needed.

Stormchaser, where do you live ? Are you a member of any of these organizations ? If not, it might be worth it to join LIBBA , MSA or any of the local surf clubs. You might be interested in coming to one of the meetings, let me know.

John

John, I live near the back of Jamaica bay, but fish anywhere I think might be good, so I travel to fish a lot. Maybe I came off a little too strong in that post, but I would be willing to be arrested if it was for fishermens rights.

Already heard of LI beach buggy association, but I mostly walk to my spots, no buggy pass. What's the MSA? Any info?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stormchaser

John, I live near the back of Jamaica bay, but fish anywhere I think might be good, so I travel to fish a lot. Maybe I came off a little too strong in that post, but I would be willing to be arrested if it was for fishermens rights.

Already heard of LI beach buggy association, but I mostly walk to my spots, no buggy pass. What's the MSA? Any info?

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Dont worry , you definitely did not come off too strong. We need people like you are willing to stand up for our rights.

Even though you dont ride the beach, you should become a member of LIBBA (http://www.libba.com/index1.htm) . They fight for beach access and fishermans rights regardless of whether it is a driving issue or not. Its cheap , It is $25 a year. The number of people in these organizations shows strength and the dues help fund the organization so they can be a healthy club.

MSA is Montauk Surfcaster Association (http://www.surfcasters.org/), they also fight for fishermans rights all over the island.I fish Montauk rarely but I am in this organization because the more people they have, the stronger they are and the louder their voice is. MSA has been very active and successful at fighting for rights over the years.

Join both if you can, it would really help.

I know one of the possible options for this fight is to go to court , money is needed for this , so the more money organizations like MSA have the better.

There is also another organization called The Coalition of Recreational Fishing, this group was formed recently by the leadership of MSA and its sole purpose is to protect fishermans rights and lobby politicians. This group is made up of 12 clubs and fishing organizations under the umbrella of The Coalition.


And of course if you are a kayaker , you can join the Kayak Fishing Association of New York (www.kfa-ny.org). I am in this club and on the board of directors. We have been very active on the Shoreham issue and were also involved with an access issue at CBB. J-Bay is a great place to kayak, you should get a kayak and fish there :)!

John

John, I fish the channels back in Inwood, some deep water there, You can see the planes take off when you are fishing. Fish were holding there till about a month ago.

Always wanted to check out a kayak, gives you more access. Maybe next year will be the year. Appreciate those sites, will check them out. In the meantime, appreciate reading about Shoreham because I fish the NS. Let me know if you are getting a group of fishermen together to protest, I'm in.

Willie Young had called Supervisor Foleys office requesting a meeting to speak about this issue. One of the commissioners called Willie back and the bottom line is the town is standing their ground that there is no fishing allowed at Shoreham Beach.

The next steps are an expanded letter writing campaign and also Willie has lined up some people who are willing to go to the beach, fish, get a ticket and fight this in court.

Also, if anyone knows of a lawyer in Brookhaven town who would be good to fight this battle, please let me know. My email address is egoer@aol.com

Stay tuned.

John

"The next steps are an expanded letter writing campaign and also Willie has lined up some people who are willing to go to the beach, fish, get a ticket and fight this in court."

Just saw this thread. I'm in. If you want more letters, I will send one to them. You want people to go and get ticketed, I'm in. Let us know how to help. This is bullcrap, it's gotta be stood up to. Don't mean to hijack this thread, but I learned a lot about the public trust from this. Thanks guys, had no idea, just always assumed they could do what they wanted. :clapping:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by plugcrazy

"The next steps are an expanded letter writing campaign and also Willie has lined up some people who are willing to go to the beach, fish, get a ticket and fight this in court."

Just saw this thread. I'm in. If you want more letters, I will send one to them. You want people to go and get ticketed, I'm in. Let us know how to help. This is bullcrap, it's gotta be stood up to. Don't mean to hijack this thread, but I learned a lot about the public trust from this. Thanks guys, had no idea, just always assumed they could do what they wanted. :clapping:

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Thanks for the support. I sent you an email, please email back. Where do you live ?

rpsurf, I don't have pm priveleges yet, but I'm in too. If you can coordinate this for a day on the weekend, I would like to go and get ticketed. I never fished Shoreham, but there's strength in numbers, and I would like to help. Please e-mail me with the details. Thanks, and great job coordinating this thing, we have the same problems in Monmouth county, NJ.

The New York Coalition of Recreational Fishing had it's bi-monthly meeting tonight and this was a hot topic of conversation. At this point The Coalition is pursuing a possible resolution within some contacts within the town. If this does not bear any fruit, then possible next steps include people getting ticketed and an ensuing court fight as well as possibly a large gathering at the beach by fisherman with print and TV media in attendance.

Stay tuned.....

John

very cool, John. :clapping: I went and fished Ct over the weekend. They have some terrible access isssues up there which made me appreciate what we have in NY and NJ.

It also made me realize that we have to fight for what we have or it will be lost, and we won't get it back.

I'm willing to get ticketed to save NY access. Just let me know, I'm in.

Nice going on the pressure, rp. I'm really not a surf guy, sometimes yes when we take the family to the beach. I understand the importance of keeping this thing in the limelight. Keep up the good fight.:clapping:

Smart move. Try to work it out behind the scenes. If not, we should be prepared to organize.

I'm betting that we'll have to go the protest route. Based upon the earlier comments made by Ms Bonner, it seems she hates fishermen, and wishes we would just go away. But we won't.

Nice work, rp. :thumbsup:

Wanted to give everyone an update on this situation.

Since Labor Day , the town has completely closed Shoreham Beach for the season. There is no fishing, no boating, no swimming, the beach is CLOSED. It has never been this way in past years. It seems like the local politicians and residents have taken this one step further in trying to turn public beaches private. Their first attempt at this was thinly veiled by banning fishing by using real or imagined issues. Now it is 100% clear what they are trying to do by closing this beach to everyone.

We can not let this stand.

There is a meeting on September 16th at the VFW Hall in Rocky Point on King Road (2nd right off Broadway from 25A going north) at 7PM. This meeting will be attended by local politician Jane Bonner, various civic associations from the beach area, the Brookhaven Business and Community Alliance and anyone else who wants to attend from the public.

If you care about your rights as a fisherman and taxpayer, whether you fish here or not , please attend this meeting and make yourself heard. We especially need residents from the town to attend. This can be an emotional issue for some, so if you attend the meeting please conduct yourself in a professional, respectful manner. Hopefully the town is willing to work this issue out , if not we will have to move forward with other political and legal options.

If anyone has any questions please PM me.

John

Thanks for the update, RP. Don't know anyone who's a homeowner there, but I might be able to attend that meeting. If not, I will tell my friends about it.

Question - you don't recommend a lot of fishermen showing up to show support, if we don't live there? Wouldn't it be a powerful thing if a lot of us showed up?