I read reports about a lot of sandeels and small bait around now. what would you guys recommend bringing out right now? What is the best artificial copy of a sandeel that bass will crash?
Where do they come from and why do they end up in the surf?
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I read reports about a lot of sandeels and small bait around now. what would you guys recommend bringing out right now? What is the best artificial copy of a sandeel that bass will crash?
Where do they come from and why do they end up in the surf?
Bucktails
bucktails
bucktails :D (at least by me, that's how we roll)
Metal jig, like Point Jude or T-hex tins
Bucktail
diamond jig
A lot of people have been talking about the sandeels. They are a great forage for predators. They will dig in at night, and early and end of season are a reliable bait you can count on. Bass love to slurp em, and they are not skittish like other baits. They will actually follow you around if you are out wading, and seem to me to be naturally curious.
They also seem to be drawn to lighted areas at night.
Another thing to consider is they are preyed on by needlefish, so this time of year you will see a mix of them as well. Needlefish are more skittish, and will swim away in a hurry.
The other night fishing in LI, Stripercoast1, Ed, was able to grab up a few in his hands after stalking those elusive needlefish. They have a strong scent, and I definitely believe the bass can smell em.
These baits are some of my favorites because of the consistency. :heart:
This is the time of the year when you want to fish teasers, folks. Don't be afraid to fish longer ones. Some of the sandeels out there are 9" long or more. In certain areas at night you will hear the bass plopping up to the surface to feast on these eels. You have to figure out where they are located.
Last year there was a significant amount 1/4 mile offshore, and less in the surf zone. This year so far it seems they are a lot closer. I do see the needlefish as well like Dark mentioned, but I try to concentrate on matching the profile of the sandeels.
The difficulty you will have is when they are balled up by the thousands. At that point you have to make your presentation stand out from the strongest concentrations. Of course it is easier to see this from a boat.
Try redgill or other similar teasers. 9" black or silver and black sluggos are a good night time presentation. I like to keep things simple so I always have a few redgills and sluggos in the bag this time of year.
also called Ammodytes Americanus or sand lance
Some scientific info-
http://www.climateandfish.eu/default...NT=S0T1O-1P192
facts from that paper- from the North atlantic and north sea, but you could probably make the same assumptions for our sandeels as they are at the southern portion of the area in discussion.
18.1.2 Spawning
Spawning in
A. marinus occurs in the North Sea between December and January (Bergstad et
al., 2001; Gauld and Hutcheon, 1990; Macer, 1966). The eggs are demersal and are spawned
at the demersal habitat of post-settled sandeels, where the eggs reside until hatching (Reay,
1970; Winslade, 1971).
18.1.3 The larval phase
When the larvae reach a length of 20 to 30 mm they become good swimmers, and congregate in the feeding areas of adult sandeels. These areas coincide with frontal areas.
Larvae congregate in the water layers with highest zooplanktonabundance during the day.
Larvae of all sizes are generally more homogeneously distributed in the water column during night than during day.
After metamorphosis, in May/June, the juvenile fish exhibit the burying behaviour of the adult sandeels.
18.1.4 Sandeel burying behaviour
Post-settled sandeels bury into the sediment when they are not feeding in the water column, i.e. when feeding is energetically inefficient in winter when sea temperatures are low (Winslade 1974c), when prey abundance is low (Winslade 1974a), and at night when low light intensity limits prey visibility: sandeels are visual feeders.
Sandeel burying behaviour has frequently been observed in response to predators foraging near the seabed (Girsa and Danilov, 1976; Pearson et al., 1984; Pinto et al., 1984) and can therefore also be seen as an anti-predator behaviour. Many predators are however capable of capturing buried sandeels (see e.g. Hobson, 1986).
18.1.5 Habitat and distribution pattern
The distribution of post-settled sandeels is highly patchy and primarily limited by the availability of suitable substrate (Macer, 1966). Sandeels avoid sediment where the weight fraction of the fine particles silt/clay and very fine sand (particles<0.09mm) is larger than 10% (Wright et al., 2000).
Sandeels appear to be tolerant to wide range of salinities.
18.1.7 Feeding biology
The food of sandeel larvae consists mainly of copepods. With increasing size the larval preference switches from copepod eggs and nauplii for larvae between 8 and 12 mm, to nauplii and copepodites for larvae between 12 and 20 mm, then to larger copepodites and
adult copepods for larger larvae and post larval and adult sandeel.
18.1.8 Growth
Growth rate of post-settled sandeels is highest during the main feeding season between March and July.
18.1.9 Ecosystem role and trophic interactions
Sandeel is a valuable food source for many marine predators due to their high abundance and
caloric value (Hislop et. al., 1991). They are preyed upon by a range of fish species.
Remember when these things are in thick, to try to keep in close contact with the sand. The bluefish will be on top, bass on the bottom.
in the flats on the cape, i know guys that will fish exclusively sand eels on high low rigs and hit some nice fish.
That aint real fishing tho, they just put the rod in the spike, drink beer and run like idiots when it starts doin somethin. try not to fall over when you're poop faced on the beach and ur rod is 200 yrds away:plastered:
You mean those guys fish real sandeels? :huh: I have never seen anyone do that in Jersey, all the setups I see have the teasers or rubber imitations before the plug.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnysaxatilis
There is a cool drawing in this pdf where they are burrowing in the sand.
http://www.nwrc.usgs.gov/wdb/pub/spe.../82_11-066.pdf
I just found this video. It looks like a lot of hard work to get the sand eels and keep them alive, but at least it looks like they do work from a boat.
Some of those sandeela are as big as regular American eels. I can't imagine how they wouldn't work. Did anyone else notice the large size of the conventional reels they are using on that boat?
An interesting paper on sandeels. I think us LI folks got short-changed this year, while you NJ folks got all the surplus.
http://www.bi.ku.dk/bibliotek/phd/Mi...an%20Deurs.pdf
Thanks pete that was an interesting read.
X2, learned a lot from reading it. I too wish we had more sandeels this year. IMO without them it killed the season.
Willie, you should have come over and fished NJ. The giant concentrations of sand eels made for some great fishing.
^ Yessir!:drool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by williehookem
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinner
You guys nailed it, (and BTW Plugginpete thanks for your post, very informative :thumbsup: :HappyWave:)
LI surfcasters had a relatively poor year in 2011 because of the lack of inshore bait, specifically sand eels.
So much so, that the most resourceful ones were coming over to NJ to fish....
I hate to be Debbie Downer here, but the news so far on the sand eel front is not good.
A few thoughts, thanks to intel provided by Finchaser, and some other of the old timers, who have feelers out for all kinds of fishing, and have a handle on what is where, so good, that it's almost like when bait is around, or a big fish gets caught....they know about it that day.....:thumbsup: Thank God for the old-timers and their memories....you younger folks could learn a lot from them...I have......:learn: :HappyWave:
1. Last year a lot of fish were sustained offshore, beyond 3 miles, by sand eels, squid, anchovies, sardines, and herring.....
2. This year the forage base has changed.....the big bluefish that have been out at the reefs and close inshore points, have been feeding on sardines, and squid, as their chief forage base.
3. According to the old timer intel, these sand eels that had been so abundant, moreso than in several years, have not shown yet, even at these closer offshore spots.
4. When you have lobstermen and commercial fishermen all giving you the same intel, ya might want to listen to what they have to say....
5.Therefore, as we say we are "waiting for the sand eels" to come in....it may not happen this year.
6. Or it may not happen to the extent and with the robustness that it has happened in recent years.
7. I am hoping that proves not to be true. However, I have been around long enough to see the cause and effect of much great fishing directly related to the amount of bait in the water....and simply put, if those sand eels don't come in, the 2012 Fall fishing at Sandy Hook and IBSP could prove to be a bust.
8. Right now, with sand eels being found nowhere offshore that these fishermen are fishing....it looks like it might happen that way....and Fall surf fishing could be poor. If the sand eels don't show uo, the late fishing will be driven by bunker, and possibly herring.....which could take surf fishing out of the equation, making a boat necessary to chase the fish on the bunker....
I hope this proves not to be true....conditions can always change for the better....
But as of now I am not counting on those sand eels showing up....
Hey DS this might be the year for us finally, while you Jersey guys get short changed. Like you said you never know. Keep the faith brother, and if your fall fishing is bad you know you are always welcome over here. Just let me know a day ahead of time. Here is a report from a private boat today, fishing off FI, out of LI...Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSkies
It's still not translating to fish for us on the beach, but at least it is more promising than last year -
"Fished this morning trolling bunker spoons east of JI. Monster blues in the 30 - 40' depths with some radio chatter from 50' of the same. One boater was jigging in 25'just west of the inlet and also hooking up.Lots of similar reports from 40' to the west.
Did not see any bunker on top but mounds of sand eels on the floor. Also ran across some rain bait but not much."
Update on sandeels....
I get intel from many trusted sources.
Some of it I can't post, and that will always be the case, as sources trust me in return.
However I wanted to update my previous comments on sandeels.
Since the hurricane I have been all over NJ and met some really great people. :HappyWave:
One such group was fishing the Sandy Hook area about 2 weeks before Sandy. They were catching very big blues that were spitting up sandeels.
They happened to have lobster fishermen in their family, always a great source for what is out there offshore, and may be important to guys who fish inshore and in the surf. They agreed that the sandeel presence this year, was nothing of the magnitude it was last year.
Nonetheless, the sandeels were around Sandy Hook, in limited quantities, sometime in October.
I want to document that here for accuracy.
These storms probably chased them far offshore.
I am still slightly optimistic that we may see some, but cautiously optimistic.
Just a heads up that on Sunday we were on our way blackfishing and off the SRI buoy we marked small bait about 20 feet down. In the past those formations have been sand eels. I cannot say for sure if they were because we weren't fishing for bass. We did not see them per se. But they sure looked like sand eels to me by the marks on the finder.
It amazes me how different the reports are from state to state. This spring we had them in Cape Cod bay, all sizes, from 2" to massive 12" ones that were almost as thick as the american eels.
I agree Charlie it changes from year to year. This year it appears they are late to show up. I find that they don't like dirty water. The slate of bi-monthly storm systems we have had this spring could have kept them offshore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by captnemo
I have found the same thing too. When you have a stable pattern with northwest winds, after a noreaster, is when they seem to come closer inshore. Of course bass don't like real dirty water as well so it makes sense you find this species of predator and prey together.
^^^ Good point when the noreasters are raging its not exactly a good environment for them. What do they feed on does anyone know? algae?
Was thinking about the sandeels and the fall. Has anyone run into them yet in NJ. Tuna or offshore guys?
I have fished CC bay and they target bass with 14 and 18" Hogys. It's great to see a bass rise and whack one of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieTuna
fnm I am starting to see them in moco. Very spotty so far up to 3". They have not really arrived yet but have snagged a few.
when I see evidence of sandeels, I put on an ava with a tail, preceded by a redgill teaser.
heard of, but not seen any evidence of SE's yet though....
Anyone have any idea when the sandeels will show up this year? Or is it only a fall thing for NJ?
maybe fall but I would hold my breathe
They finally hit our shores last week. It's a beautiful sight to see when they are washing up on the beach. These are the stomach contents someone posted on the net. Delish!
Did some research on sandeel threads and found this. Have heard some striped ones caught in Ocean County had sandeels in their bellies. I really do hope they move closer to our surf zone.