Something Stinks at the ASMFC? - ASMFC Striped Bass ruling October 2013

Bass not even mentioned

October Council Meeting Summary

Download the October Council Meeting Summary (pdf) The Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council addressed a range of issues during its October 2013 meeting in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Key topics discussed at the meeting included: Harvest levels and commercial management measures for summer flounder, scup, black sea bass, and bluefish (adopted in conjunction with the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission); Spiny dogfish specifications; River herring and shad management; Framework 8 to the Monkfish fishery management plan; Strategic implementation plan; and 2015 research priorities for the Research Set-Aside (RSA) Program. Learn more in the October Council Meeting Summary. Briefing materials, presentations, and audio recordings from the meeting are available at http://www.mafmc.org/briefing/october-2013. Next Meeting: December 10-12, 2013 The Westin Hotel 100 Westgate Circle Annapolis, MD 21401 Go to www.mafmc.org/briefing-books to view the full 2014 meeting schedule. http://staticapp.icpsc.com/icp/loadi...02d6/image/png The Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council is one of eight regional councils established by the Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act of 1976. The Council has primary responsibility for twelve species of fish and shellfish in the exclusive economic zone (EEZ) between 3 and 200 miles off the Mid-Atlantic coast. Member states include New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, and North Carolina. Visit our website for more information.

Mr Fote (one of three NJ commissioners) wrote me back and gave me a link to an article he wrote in regards to what action he plans on taking. Here is his final sentence "Nothing that I have seen in the past 40 years involved in striped bass and the past 24 years at ASMFC has shown me that we need to change our current practice. If the science and the triggers show the need for a change, then I will support that"

Rob that is one of the most ignorant sentences I have ever read. time for Tom Fote to resign and be replaced By someone who doesn't have his Head Up His As$!!!!

Was there an issue with Tom Fote a few years ago in that he turned against recreational fisherman and supported the commercial fisherman?
I may be wrong on this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by robmedina

Mr Fote (one of three NJ commissioners) wrote me back and gave me a link to an article he wrote in regards to what action he plans on taking. Here is his final sentence "Nothing that I have seen in the past 40 years involved in striped bass and the past 24 years at ASMFC has shown me that we need to change our current practice. If the science and the triggers show the need for a change, then I will support that"

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He's full of SH*T when they wanted to change the regulations he told one of the the committees on the behalf of all fishing clubs there are more bass than ever. he never consulted any of them.
As one of the founding members of the JCAA they are suppose to represent all clubs. All he worries about is his fluke tournament and the company car he finagled some how . His fluke tournament has gone from 1000 boats to 200 for the state that's how much fishermen think of him. He also made these comments on national TV channel 21 I'm sure you can Google it. I gave DS a copy of the it on a CD.


Monty you are right

I'm beginning to think they believe if they decimate them they don't have to regulate them and make money doing it(hey who the eff is better then them) as always too many deep pockets running around town that's one reason this country is falling apart.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by finchaser

He's full of SH*T when they wanted to change the regulations he told one of the the committees on the behalf of all fishing clubs there are more bass than ever. he never consulted any of them.
As one of the founding members of the JCAA they are suppose to represent all clubs. All he worries about is his fluke tournament and the company car he finagled some how . His fluke tournament has gone from 1000 boats to 200 for the state that's how much fishermen think of him. He also made these comments on national TV channel 21 I'm sure you can Google it. I gave DS a copy of the it on a CD.


Monty you are right

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Unbelievable! How could a guy like this ever get appointed if he is so far into lala land? Does he smoke pot or do heroin?:kooky:

Those that do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it.

Just kickbacks money makes people greedy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by storminsteve

Unbelievable! How could a guy like this ever get appointed if he is so far into lala land? Does he smoke pot or do heroin?:kooky:

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how do we get the commissioners out of there?

They are all the same they just blow smoke up our a$$es and continue on,one is no better then the rest.

One of you members should draft a letter to Tom....detailing the YOY stats, ASMFC findings that striped bass landings are down.....with specific links to the data.......
You should present him with hard concrete data that exists out there, and ask him to explain it....

Rob, are you a good letter writer?
Finchaser and I are too old to keep loading the artillery and firing the shots by ourselves....
We need some new letter writers around here.....please feel free to step up to the plate and send it to me privately if ya want me to critique it before it's sent......

It would be good to make it generic, and structured in such a way that it could be posted here for a mass e-mailing.....and as mentioned, should have the key info about the YOY and landings declines....

If someone doesn't post or do it by next week, I'll try to set it up...but would rather one of you concerned members takes the lead on this.....
I know we have lots of capable members....





** I gained some new perspectives in the last few weeks....
We need accountability from our officials and commissioners.....
We need to demand this when they make statements that are not in line with reality.....
Part of the problem with our society, is that we don't demand accountability....and blindly accept things like this.....
thanks for reading......:HappyWave:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by surfstix1963

I'm beginning to think they believe if they decimate them they don't have to regulate them and make money doing it(hey who the eff is better then them) as always too many deep pockets running around town that's one reason this country is falling apart.

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Agree completely

Quote:

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Originally Posted by robmedina

how do we get the commissioners out of there?

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They are appointed not elected you would have to write to Gov Christie and have a good reason why they should be ousted. If anyone can come up with something I will sign it because the guy Fote seems clueless.

You fellas have to understand the way they manage the fish is not really for the future but for MSY - maximum sustainable yield. They don't give the YOY stats the weight they should be given and instead look at the longer range analysis. If they are to change this it would have to be from a lot of pressure, not only from individual fishermen, but fishing clubs, etc.

^^^^ So really if you think about it the ASMFC more represents the interests of the commercial fishermen than the recreational ones. I def don't trust them or the numbers they are saying. Too many guys I know are complaining of poor fishing this year. They can't all be bad fishermen. It has to be that the striper numbers are down what else could it be?

The recent ASMFC striped bass ruling this week is killing me.
It has no basis in reality.
The ASMFC has publically stated the harvest numbers are down, yet they are unwilling to change regs.


Rather and just come on here and rant about it......
I am developing an action plan.

This will unfold in the coming weeks. I can't do it alone, will need your help to get the word out and send the letters.
I will try to make it as easy as possible for good numbers of people to help.

Some of ya's got to hear me ranting on the phone yesterday....because some of the ones I was ranting to....are the very same folks who were my inspiration to get more involved in fisheries management issues..
Although at times in the past I resented your rants to me...:kooky:...I have now come to understand, very clearly, why you old timers were so upset....and I sincerely thank you for the fire you lit inside me.....:thumbsup: :HappyWave:

Who is influencing the vote?
Why are they voting the way they do, in spite of compelling evidence to the contrary?

Some of you have written to me, and said the ASMFC is corrupt, and out of touch with reality.
I can't substantiate corruption within that organization, because there is no proof.

However, you are entitled to your opinions here, and I would like to hear them.

Hint:
I believe part of this problem is that the striped bass are managed for MSY (Maximum Sustainable Yield)
This does not take into account the great gaps in certain year classes we are seeing.
It does not take into account the declining YOY stats that have been poor for several of the last years, with the exception of 2012.











Feel free to put forth your ideas and thoughts --
Why there are substantiated declines in striped bass catches...
And yet every year there is only a minority of the ASMFC board, advocating for striped bass and better managing of this resource, that belongs to all of us?

There is no right or wrong answer here....
Your opinions will count, as I will take them into consideration when drawing up the action plans....
Thanks for reading.....

** 2

I am going with corruption as of now, because any amount of common sense would lead to restrictions.
I also feel that the party boats and charter boats are our enemies (almost all). You think that the majority of them want further restrictions?
They would loose $$.
Does the RFA represent charter boats, party boats?
Looking forward to your posts Dark.

^^ You asked some very challenging questions there, Monty..:thumbsup:....and they should be explored.
Some of the answers might cause a lot of controversy if we were able to post the truth about the connections various groups have, and the influence they have, when the ASMFC votes.

At this point I am not making accusations.
You folks are free to make any inferences you want, to try to help us figure out what is broken at the ASMFC. You are all entitled to your opinions.

When we are implementing our action plan, we will probably be making some enemies within the fishing community.
There are folks out there who would not be happy with the inferences being drawn,,,,,they would say there is no proof......

That's why I'm not making those inferences at this time,......merely stating that for the last 3 years, the ASMFC has been admitting the striped bass harvest is declining......and have not made a move to do anything concrete to resolve that issue.....

Therefore, it's reasonable to think that there are certain interest groups operating out of the public sphere, that are influencing the way the Commissioners vote, privately.....

Please be aware there is nothing criminal about this...it's the way of Politics,.,,,,and the way deals are done in Fisheries management all the time....many issues are resolved behind closed doors, with ourselves as fishermen having limited say, or influence in these matters.

**It is all about advocacy groups,,,,and the reason I have publically backed PACS like the RFA here in the past....

However, it's becoming more clear to me, and scores of other fishermen,. that these meetings are a dog and pony show...the minds are made up ahead of time, and there is possible undue influence from groups operating in the shadows, pushing their interests ahead of the interests of the average fisherman.








**This is what I want to explore in this thread.
Your first Amendment Rights will be protected here. You are free to voice your opinion whether you agree with any statements here or not.
I want to be very careful, as the Admin, to stay in the middle of any strong opinions that may develop, and give everyone equal time to voice their opinion.

The important thing, is that I am not accepting this as reality any more.
This will not be the reality that I have to swallow, because I know in my heart, and hundreds of interviews I have done over the years, that it is not what most fishermen are seeing.

I am mad as hell, and not just going to rant about it anymore.
1. We will take action.
2. We will be heard.
3. We will ruffle feathers.
4. We will get various fishermen groups I have gotten to know, made aware of this...and at some point they will have to take us seriously.
If we are to make enemies or get folks mad at us for speaking the truth, so be it.


I am tired of bending over and taking it from the ASMFC. :burn:
How many of you folks, feel the same way?











**Their actions suggest that somehow they are being unduly influenced by special interest groups. Again, just to be clear, there is nothing that is criminal about this. This is how things play out in the political arena....this is the nature of Politics and the Political process.


What I am advocating for, is some more transparency, and the idea that the Commissioners who vote on the ASMFC, are responsible to all fishermen, not just a few special interest groups.

What I want to raise awareness of, is...
1. Who are the biggest players here.....
2. How much influence do they have?.....
3. What pressure we can place on them, so they know that we have a voice as well?......





**It's time to stand and be counted,
A. If you really care about the striped bass....
B. If you believe there is an action plan possible, that will prevent another moratorium.
C. And if it's important to you that your children and grandchildren will be allowed to fish for them tomorrow and in the future.........

I also need the help of you people here, to manage this thread, and keep us informed of any ASMFC rulings and updates......

Things like...
1. Posting the recent ruling......
2. Comments, suggestions
3. Any letters you have sent and received responses to.
4. Any public comments by members of the ASMFC....with links to those comments


And updates......
I don't have the time to manage these threads like I used to.
I will give you people a lot of leeway to voice your opinions in this thread....as your opinion is Constitutionally protected....

That being said, personal attacks on others or threats to the safety of others will not be tolerated....there will be no warnings if this happens....I won't tolerate the kinds of implied violent threats in the meat men thread, where I had to remove members who threatened others.

**Please be aware that if you threaten or infer to threaten the safety of others, you will be removed, no 2nd chances.
We are all adults here, and capable of adult discussion.
I don't have time to babysit grown men, and I won't.








**That being said,. if you care about the future of striped bass please feel free to post any pertinent info here, as we begin to put this action plan together....
Thanks for readling....:HappyWave:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DarkSkies

The important thing, is that I am not accepting this as reality any more.
This will not be the reality that I have to swallow, because I know in my heart, and hundreds of interviews I have done over the years, that it is not what most fishermen are seeing.

I am mad as hell, and not just going to rant about it anymore.
1. We will take action.
2. We will be heard.
3. We will ruffle feathers.
4. We will get various fishermen groups I have gotten to know, made aware of this...and at some point they will have to take us seriously.
5. I will not stop in this quest, until I am dead.

If we are to make enemies or get folks mad at us for speaking the truth, so be it.


I am tired of bending over and taking it from the ASMFC. :burn:
How many of you folks, feel the same way?

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Dark for President!:clapping: :clapping: :clapping::clapping::clapping:
Dude I am with you all the way. Come up with a letter that states that and we can post all over the internet and on facebook,
Like monty said there has to be some corruption. With them being faced with the same statistics for 3 years and not doing anything? I feel the biggest influence is the party and charter boats. I have read some reports where the capts say if guys are not allowed to keep 2 bass or more they will not shell out the money for a trip. Thats total bs. Look at the fluke fishery they have increased the size limits and put in restrictions and guys still pay to fish for them. Same with the blackfish the restrictions **** but when the season opens the boats have no problems finding fares.
The striped bass should be the same.

Better yet why don't they look at bass as a coastwide resource and manage it that way? Whatever you guys need me to do or sign let me know. I'm in!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DarkSkies

**Their actions suggest that somehow they are being unduly influenced by special interest groups. Again, [B]just to be clear, there is nothing that is criminal about this. This is how things play out in the political arena....this is the nature of Politics and the Political process.

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May not be criminal but it is 100% wrong and should be criminal. The excuse "that's politics" should be disallowed, politics in this country is severely screwing the citizens of this country. Anyone who accepts "that's politics" is rolling over like a girlie man.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by storminsteve

Dark for President!:clapping: :clapping: :clapping::clapping::clapping:
Dude I am with you all the way. Come up with a letter that states that and we can post all over the internet and on facebook,
Like monty said there has to be some corruption. With them being faced with the same statistics for 3 years and not doing anything? I feel the biggest influence is the party and charter boats. I have read some reports where the capts say if guys are not allowed to keep 2 bass or more they will not shell out the money for a trip. Thats total bs. Look at the fluke fishery they have increased the size limits and put in restrictions and guys still pay to fish for them. Same with the blackfish the restrictions **** but when the season opens the boats have no problems finding fares.
The striped bass should be the same.

Better yet why don't they look at bass as a coastwide resource and manage it that way? Whatever you guys need me to do or sign let me know. I'm in!

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Ditto what SS said, will do what I can.

No offense dark but you better get ready for death threats. Thats what will happen when you threaten the livelihoods of these guys. I agree something needs to be done. Only a retard would say bass fishing is healthier than ever. Whether you like it or not the head boat industry is a powerful lobbying interest. Christie listens to them as well as the folks on the asmfc.
You hit on a good point that the fishery is managed for MSY. That is a flawed model and changes need to be made. Thats also precisely why they won't change it. Good luck but be careful. If you need me to sign something I will.

If nothing is done soon we all will be suffering 5 yrs from now. The party boats and Charter Capt. will be out of business, and if that happens then they get what they deserve. They're all idiots.:burn:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monty

May not be criminal but it is 100% wrong and should be criminal. The excuse "that's politics" should be disallowed, politics in this country is severely screwing the citizens of this country. Anyone who accepts "that's politics" is rolling over like a girlie man.


Ditto what SS said, will do what I can.

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Oh it is wrong all right. What is most wrong about it is they do agree before hand what the vote will be . I think what the public sees is a carefully coordinated game of charades.
Dark you may not want to speak out on Fote, but his name has surfaced on other websites as well. I'll say it and I don't care who likes it or not. Tom Fote is a puppet on a stick. That stick up his a-ss is being controlled by the charter and party boats. There is no other explanation for it. There is no other logic to explain it. Tom Fote is a corrupt piece of s-hit. He doesn't do anything to represent the fishermen. at least I can definitely say he doesn't represent my interests. It will be a great day for saltwater fishermen everywhere when he is replaced with someone who actually fishes and is a true representative or our interests. get a petition going or post a letter I will sign and send as many times as i can. Time to sent this piece of s-hit into retirement.

Tom Fote of JCAA voted against protecting the bass

Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 4:58 PM
Subject: We are making our way back to square one!!



What happened today at the ASMFC 72nd Annual Meeting held in Georgia was a real shitshow.

While the transcripts of todays meeting and vote aren't available, one result is out based on the following question,

"To implement a 28 inch minimum size and one fish daily for coastal recreational fisheries with an equivalent reduction for coastal commercial quotas for implementation in 2014."

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Yvbse1zRP-...s640/LL-2.jpeg

Can't save the bass but they have time for this SH_T . I was invited but refused to go. Also fluke were over fished and quota's and bag limits in 2014 will be cut

----- Original Message ----- From: Jersey Coast Anglers Association
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 2:00 PM
Subject: PRESS RELEASE - JCAA Sportsperson of the Year Dinner November 10, 2013

JCAA Sportsperson of the Year Dinner November 10, 2013
Sergio Radossi is the 2013 Sportsperson of the Year

At the November 10th Jersey Coast Anglers Association annual Sportsperson-of-the-Year Dinner we will honor Sergio Radossi, as the 2013 recipient of the JCAA "Sportsperson-of-the-Year". He was nominated by the Hudson River Fisherman's Association and was given this honor by a majority vote at the October 29th General Meeting. We are proud to announce this year's Youth Education Award winner is Geaorge Foreman. The dinner takes place on Sunday, November 10, 2013 from 4:00-9:00 p.m. at the beautiful Crystal Point Yacht Club, Route 70 & River Rd, Point Pleasant, NJ. Tickets are still available and can be purchased by calling Dan Millerat (609) 641-7821. Tickets are $75.00 per person or $600.00 for a table of ten. For more information about the dinner and Sergio Radossi's nomination letter from the Hudson River Fisherman's Association, go to the JCAA web page.

About Jersey Coast Anglers Association The Jersey Coast Anglers Association is a non-profit organization formed in 1981. The original objective of the JCAA was to combine a loosely fragmented group of marine sportfishing clubs in order to form and promote a united consensus on issues relevant to saltwater anglers in New Jersey. Over the years, the mission of the JCAA has remained unchanged, but now has the added goal of joining forces with organizations having similar objectives in states along the East Coast and national organizations. While the JCAA is relatively young, it has emerged as the most effective organization of its kind on the East Coast. For more information, or for information about becoming a member of the JCAA, please call (732) 506-6565 or visit www.JCAA.org

Having trouble viewing this email? Click here

http://r20.rs6.net/on.jsp?t=11154794...mages/p1x1.gif

JCAA Sportsperson of the Year Dinner November 10, 2013 At the November 10th Jersey Coast Anglers Association annual Sportsperson-of-the-Year Dinner we will honor Sergio Radossi, as the 2013 recipient of the JCAA "Sportsperson-of-the-Year". He was nominated by the Hudson River Fisherman's Association and was given this honor by a majority vote at the October 29th General Meeting. We are proud to announce this year's Youth Education Award winner is Geaorge Foreman. The dinner takes place on Sunday, November 10, 2013 from 4:00-9:00 p.m. at the beautiful Crystal Point Yacht Club, Route 70 & River Rd, Point Pleasant, NJ. Tickets are still available and can be purchased by calling Dan Millerat (609) 641-7821. Tickets are $75.00 per person or $600.00 for a table of ten. For more information about the dinner and Sergio Radossi's nomination letter from the Hudson River Fisherman's Association, go to the

One thing some folks in NJ may not realize is the limits for striped bass in NY are one at 28" and one at 40" or greater.
However, the party boats have a conditional license to take 2 at 28" or better, per angler.
There is also a pretty strong commercial striper fishery in NY, mainly gillnetters.

Taken together, these party boats and gillnetters represent a strong political lobbying group. I read "undue influence" mentioned here. It is stronger than that. It is a targeted influence by these commercial interests to further their inroads they have made. Any move by the ASMFC to cut the stiped bass harvest would definitely affect their quotas. They will fight tooth and nail for that quota even if it means they have to lie and make up stories about how healthy the bass stocks are. These folks are in it for the $$. They don't care about the future of striped bass. If bass are wiped out they will just target another species.
I think it's admirable that you want to pursue this fight. As bababooey said you will make some enemies out there. These folks will do anything to keep or increase their quota. That being said I want to commend you for taking the initiave to rally against the ASMFC. Groups have tried it before and failed. Just be aware that there are Commissioners on the ASMFC from LI and they will most certainly represent LI commercial interests. This will continue no matter how much data you present to prove your case. I do give you credit for trying and will help any way I can.

I will help as well.

Some e-mails for NJ and LI for folks who want to pepper them with e-mail blasts:


LI Commissioners -

James Gilmore,
NY State Dept. of Environmental Conservation
Bureau of Marine Resources
205 North Belle Mead Road, Suite 1
East Setauket, NY 11733-3400
Tel: 631.444.0433
jjgilmor@gw.dec.state.ny.us

Pat Augustine
25 Stuart Drive
Coram, NY 11727
Tel: 631.928.1524
paugustine3@verizon.net


Sen Philip M Boyle
4^th Senate District
69 West Main Street
Bay Shore, NY 11706
Tel: 518.455.3411 (Albany); 631.665.2311 (District office)





NJ Commissioners

David Chanda
NJ Dept. of Environmental Protection
Division of Fish and Wildlife
Mail Code 501‐03
PO BOX 400
Trenton, NJ 08625-0420
Tel: 609.292.9410
dave.chanda@dep.state.nj.us

Thomas P Fote
22 Cruiser Court
Toms River, NJ 08753-6246
Tel: 732.270.9102
tfote@jcaa.org


Assemblyman Nelson T Albano
NJ State Legislature
1028 East Landis Avenue
Vineland, NJ 08360-4041
Tel: 856.696.7109
AsmAlbano@njleg.org

Ideally this makeup should provide a balance, with someone involved in the science, another a Congressman or Official, and the other just plain folk who are supposed to represent the interests of the fishermen. We have had similar issues with Pat Augustine representing the LI fishery. I feel he represents commercials more than recreationals and this is where the resentment lies.

This is a list of all the ASMFC Commissioners -

http://www.asmfc.org/about-us/commissioners


It is interesting to note that at the meeting that took place this week, only 13 of them voted on the striped bass question. That is 13 out of 45, not even enough for a quorum. I feel all members should be voting on each issue like this that is important to us fishermen. Other wise, what's the point of having a vote?

the meeting summary. It is in pdf format

http://www.asmfc.org/uploads/file/pr...hmarkAssmt.pdf

Some very good points made here. Bassbuddah thank you for your input on the new york captains. I was not aware they have such a strong influence. I can tell you folks that I have been fishing for striped bass since the 1960's. As mentioned here the conditions that existed prior to the moratorium were such that few of us were aware of imminent collapse. There were areas like Cape Cod and Montauk where there were very strong showings of striped bass. I caught some very large fish from the shores of the Cape Cod area. Some over 45lbs. The conditions were fantastic fishing and almost unbelievable by today's standards.
This was around the late 1970's. Then things declined sharply thereafter. The amount of fishermen selling their catch back then was incredible. I believe this unchecked selling had a lot to do with the collapse. The years 1980 to 1982 you could really tell there was a decline. Bass were harder to catch and the blitz conditions occurred less and less. Then in 1982 they declared them overfished and put a shutdown on the fishing.

Most of us knew back in 1979 that we were seeing the beginning of the end. There were some newspaper articles published back then but not many folks paid attention. When they finally did declare them overfished it was too late.
Then, it took 5-7 years for them to come back where the numbers and catches were really strong again.

You should e-mail the asmfc reps for your state and ask them key questions relative to their reports showing how the stock has declined. Petitions might work as well but you would need thousands of signatures. You folks have a unique opportunity to pressure the asmfc to do the right thing here.

Dark skies I admire your initiative. As has been said I think they tried to make a change in Long Island but were not successful. Do not let a lack of success discourage you. There are enough fishermen out there right now that will confirm what I am saying. I am too old to keep fighting this like we used to. I have high hopes that you younger folk will be able to help and apply pressure for them to re-visit the statistics. I sincerely believe the statistic models they are using now are providing flawed data just like with the summer flounder. Convincing them of that will be a formidable task but it is well worth the effort. Best of luck and thank you.

Thank you for sharing that clamchucker.I think we are headed down that same road again. Hope the goofballs at the Asmfc realize that before its too late. Count me in for any sigs or e-mails. The best we can do is try.

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Originally Posted by albiealert

Hope the goofballs at the Asmfc realize that before its too late. .

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I think it is all about money and politics. When you have it that way the stripers come last. I will help too let me know.