Plovers/Closed Beaches

[cowherder]

Dark, I walked some of the areas that you were talking about in that video. I couldn't find one plover at all, and I really looked for them. If someone ever wants to put a petition together to the National Park Service, I'm in! I think it's disgusting that they closed all those areas for that long. I searched for a pic of a plover so I would know what to look for, and posted it up. Again, I did not see even one!

[DarkSkies]

Here's the sign where they offer a reward for whoever disturbed the nests. Even money says that someone connected with the environmentalists was responsible for that destruction.

[VSdreams]

Here's the sign where they offer a reward for whoever disturbed the nests. Even money says that someone connected with the environmentalists was responsible for that destruction.

I would have to agree with you here. I hate those stupid birds, but would never do anything to harm them, or cause them to close down an area further. Doesn't make sense to me that a fisherman would do it.

[Frankiesurf]

I spoke to a National Wildlife Service official in regards to the Piping Plover a few months ago. The jurisdiction in which the nests are located is responsible for them. What the usage limits are and length of time the nests and closures are in place.

The plovers are usually gone by the end of July. If the nests are disturbed then that mating pair will usually stick around until their brood are considered fledglings ( about 30 days after hatching). Then they are on their own.

Again, it is up to the local jurisdiction as to when they take down the enclosures for the nest and repeal the closures.

These birds,and even more so the young, are extremely difficult to see. If they are not near the nest and see an intruder they will not go back to the nest until the danger has cleared. When they perceive danger they remain still. It is basically impossible to see them when they do until you are near them.

I hate to see fishermen denouncing and joking about the extinction of a species. The numbers of these birds have come back in recent years but last year the numbers were down. This is mostly due to recreational beach users.

Survival of the fittest is the wrong term to use when you pit a two ton truck against a two ounce bird. They had been striving for years until recreational beach use, especially when off road vehicles came to play.

[DarkSkies]

You make some good points there Frankie. I don't want to see a species driven to extinction either. Anyone who reads a history of the American buffalo can understand how easily that can be accomplished. My biggest issue that caused me to shoot that video is that long after the plovers have left the nest, at SH they still keep the barriers up. I was wondering if someone who works with plovers every day could explain to me why this was so.


Meanwhile, at least at SH, the birders were there every day this year, and walked down a lot of the trails as they took their pics of them. I didn't see anyone tresspass, don't want to fling any accusations. I only think we should be able to work together on this, even though fishermen and environmentalists seem to come from different worlds. Just my crazy opinion, as usual, about the ideal of all parties working together to resolve an issue.

[fishinmission78]

I hate to see fishermen denouncing and joking about the extinction of a species. The numbers of these birds have come back in recent years but last year the numbers were down. This is mostly due to recreational beach users.

I don't want to see a species driven to extinction either.... Meanwhile, at least at SH, the birders were there every day this year, and walked down a lot of the trails as they took their pics of them. I didn't see anyone tresspass, don't want to fling any accusations. I only think we should be able to work together on this, even though fishermen and environmentalists seem to come from different worlds. Just my crazy opinion, as usual, about the ideal of all parties working together to resolve an issue.

Ask yourself who has more to gain if the beaches are closed for a long time, fishermen or the tree huggers. I feel it's either the tree huggers or the idiots in the SUVs who treat the beach like it's their own personal baja race. These are usually younger folks in the early 20's, most of whom don't even fish but come on the beach to party and race on the sand. Then when they get stuck they whine for someone to please help them out. I would say at least 10% of people who get the beach fishing permit at IBSP never fish and only go there to sunbathe away from the bathing beaches or go on picnics. I would blame a person like that first before I put the blame on fishermen.

[clamchucker]

. I would blame a person like that first before I put the blame on fishermen.

Now that Sandy Hook is designated as a mpa, the issue of blame may become moot. They can close the plover areas all season if they feel so inclined.

[DarkSkies]

I recently filmed a closure area at Sandy Hook. It's my contention that the plover closure areas are not holding nesting birds anymore, nor have there been any plovers there for several weeks in large sections of the closed areas.

...So we should protect the plovers, and let them make their nests, and procreate. But what happens when the people who are in charge of the program seem to be over-zealous? I went to Sandy Hook National Park on Fri July 31, 2009 and filmed a plover closure area.
I observed the area for approx 35 minutes. At no time did I see any plovers, or their young,. or any other shorebirds, in the area I observed.
It's my belief that the plovers have been finished nesting for weeks. Yet the areas still remain closed, and we as fishermen are not allowed to enjoy and use them.
We all must respect nature and the delicate balance, but this is something that doesn't sit right with me. They are keeping an area closed much longer than they need to be. Feel free to use this video and my comments to support anything I said, or if you wish to raise awareness of, about the length and effectiveness of this program.
We all must work together to save this planet and the delicate ecosystems. However, when one group is allowed to put forth their regulations for longer than is scientifically necessary, maybe changes should be made. Thanks for watching!

Here's the video:

Dark, I walked some of the areas that you were talking about in that video. I couldn't find one plover at all, and I really looked for them. If someone ever wants to put a petition together to the National Park Service, I'm in! I think it's disgusting that they closed all those areas for that long. I searched for a pic of a plover so I would know what to look for, and posted it up. Again, I did not see even one!

You make some good points there Frankie. I don't want to see a species driven to extinction either. Anyone who reads a history of the American buffalo can understand how easily that can be accomplished. My biggest issue that caused me to shoot that video is that long after the plovers have left the nest, at SH they still keep the barriers up. I was wondering if someone who works with plovers every day could explain to me why this was so.

... I only think we should be able to work together on this, even though fishermen and environmentalists seem to come from different worlds. Just my crazy opinion, as usual, about the ideal of all parties working together to resolve an issue.

clamchucker, I'm afraid that this year they will do whatever they please with the non swimming beaches, will be more confined than ever I fear. Especially after what went on last year at NB with the nests. The frustrations are setting in already. See what develops.

Frankie, none of the fishermen I know wants to hurt these birds. Guy do feel frustration at not being able to fish when the plovers are nesting. They may express that through poor jokes, so be it. Most people agree we should give plovers their space. It would be sad for me if yet another species became extinct.

However, I hope I pointed out through the highlighted comments that I and others have seen them keep these areas closed for weeks after the last bird has gone.

I know Sandy Hook and other Gateway areas were designated as protected before all this MPA fuss came about. IMO the official MPA status now gives them the right to close it for the season if some environmental person decides it would be a good idea.

As I and others documented, there should be a closure, but it should be lifted once the last bird has gone. With the law so strong now it may be likely that some of those areas are closed for the whole season.

If they're officially permitted/mandated to do it, I believe they eventually will.

That's what concerns me, another unnecessary restriction on fishermen that contravenes the most reasonable solution. And because it's now officially designated as an MPA, there's nothing we can do about it.

[surfwalker]

Usually in March or April ropes are put into place from the dunes down to the waters edge. Signs are put in place for no entry beyond this point. Then another rope, maybe a ¼ mile to a half mile, is put in at the other end of the beach, same signs. They never used to bother us until May 15th till Aug 15th , then it was enforced.

If nests are found to be in this area, the area is shut down, no entry by anyone, no excuses. In the ‘80’s I don’t recall too many shut downs, almost extinct, but the ‘90’s had an increase in shutdowns. In the beginning it wasn’t really enforced that much as long as you were walking and casting, the rangers were good about it. But lately they have been really brutal if you are caught in these areas, even at 3-4am if a ranger is patrolling the beach, I know first hand.

Some regulars have gotten written warnings. I was told quite a few years ago, after my first written warning of the year, that if I received a second that my park privileges would be revoked for the remainder of the year. I never challenged that and still don’t know if it is true.

Now, I know I’m not supposed to be in certain areas, but I walk right through the summer months, and certain areas that have been productive through the years, consistently, are very hard to resist.

With the advent of more and more people getting into this addiction, the restrictions will be enforced even more.

I understand that the MPA’s have been around and the laws were on the books, but I fear that they will enforce them to the max and do whatever they please as far as beach closures.

As I stated in other posts, I would never hurt these birds or do any harm to their nesting areas, all I wanna do is walk the wetline.