Plovers/Closed Beaches

[surfwalker]

Nothing aggrevates me more than walking my go to spots and then being stopped cold by a rope and a sign saying closed area for nesting birds. Maybe I just don't like being confined as to where I can cast or not. I have feelings for an endangered nesting bird and would never harm any. But if I'm walking the wetline, moving and casting, not bait fishing, nowhere near the dunes, especially at night, then I should be allowed to pass. I get a kick out of seeing the nest checkers driving their 4x4's through the closed areas, fish tailing in the sand, this is OK? I will never contribute to the demise of these birds, but I've seen some nor'easters knock the hell outta those cages, maybe they are not suppose to survive. Some might say I'm heartless or selfesh. What's your take.

[surfstix1963]

I wouldn't hurt them as much as they aggravate the hell out of me,but when these birds migrate to a country I cannot recall at the moment they are eaten as a delicacy so wheres this all going sooner or later they will not be around survival of the fittest.

[dogfish]

,but when these birds migrate to a country I cannot recall at the moment they are eaten as a delicacy so wheres this all going sooner or later they will not be around survival of the fittest.

I think we should get to them first and do some grilling, hot sauce marinade....

[DarkSkies]

I have feelings for an endangered nesting bird and would never harm any. But if I'm walking the wetline, moving and casting, not bait fishing, nowhere near the dunes, especially at night, then I should be allowed to pass. I get a kick out of seeing the nest checkers driving their 4x4's through the closed areas, fish tailing in the sand, this is OK? I will never contribute to the demise of these birds, but I've seen some nor'easters knock the hell outta those cages, maybe they are not suppose to survive.

I agree with what you said, surfwalker. I don't consciously hate them, but the above shirt and the signs I see are funny. The closures interfere with my fishing, I can put up with the inconvenience for awhile. When you talk about nest checkers fishtailing through the area, that seems hypocritical on their part. I would be aggravated too. I look forward to the day when they're no longer endangered, wondering if that day will ever come.

[williehookem]

I think we should get to them first and do some grilling, hot sauce marinade....

:

[wish4fish]

eff the plovers, survival of the fittest, lol

[surfwalker]

I look forward to the day when they're no longer endangered, wondering if that day will ever come.

I read the other day (7/17/09), as reported by a local Jersey shore paper, that some aholes on Sandy Hook destroyed and took some eggs out of one of these enclosures, meant to protect the Plover. This in no way helps our cause as fisherman. This most definetly will lead to stricter enforcement and even wider closures in the areas we like to fish. In a time when increased fishing pressure on our limited space is being confined more and more, we don't need BS like that. I tend to believe that no fisherman would be that stupid to do something like that, but we never know. Also the new rule that lets anybody remain in the park after dark till 10pm (other than permit holders), has to be questioned. The dbags that did this will probably never get caught and I am afraid that we, as the ones who use these areas the most, will suffer for it. Anyone with new info about this, please inform.

[Monty]

Surfwalker,
It is stuff like this that just makes me sick. Society is in a terrible down trend. While there are many incredible concienses good fisherman, there are many inconsiderate people that fish. Unreal that this happened, and that they allow people to stay on the beaches untill 10:00 is just plain stupid. I paid that 50 bucks for a reason. Society is having one big mother of a stupid attack.

[DarkSkies]

I don't have time to write my usual 30 paragraphs on this today, so I'll try to break it down simply. If you were an officer investigating a crime, you would focus on who was most likely to benefit from that crime.

My theories:

1. Fishermen derive the least benefit if those areas are destroyed. This action could have been done by a drunk or angry fisherman, but IMO that's a remote possibility, and less likely than the other groups that might have done it.

2. Teen vandalism -Teens or various groups that have been hanging there end of day. I remember what I did when I was a teen, especially after I had a few beers and smoked a few spliffs. I found teens at Brookhaven, LI were a large part of the problem for shoreham Beach. Yet this was mostly blamed on fishermen. This IMO is a greater possibility than a group of fishermen doing this, based on my experience.

3. Eco- groups - we remember that a similar action happened earlier in the season at Hatteras, where the plover closure season was extended because of vandalism. Who stands to benefit the most from extending these closures? IMO the environmental groups would benefit the most, and get extra publicity and contribution dollars when they solicit people for the fundraisers.

Again, I'm not accusing any one group, I'm just trying to start a conversation with people here about who is most likely to benefit from a closure.

As it stands, this year's closure has lasted longer than any one I can remember previously. I don't know how the eco-groups managed to pull that one off, guys, but rest assured the next year will be the same unless we are willing to peacefully protest and make our own waves so our rights aren't trampled on.


As for the closures and penalties, they are real, guys, If they spot you out there at Sandy Hook, you will be fined, so be careful.

A few members on this site were let go with written warnings, and the tickets are $75. They can chime in and tell you more if they want. So whether you agree with it or not, please be careful.

And if you're not happy about the length of the closures, let's get together and try to find a Senator or Representative who can help us for next year. The only way we can do this is with numbers of fishermen behind us. guys. 5 or 10 fishermen cannot make a difference in this specific situaltion.

[i bd fossil]

I don't have time to write my usual 30 paragraphs on this today, so I'll try to break it down simply. If you were an officer investigating a crime, you would focus on who was most likely to benefit from that crime.

My theories:

1. Fishermen derive the least benefit if those areas are destroyed. This action could have been done by a drunk or angry fisherman, but IMO that's a remote possibility, and less likely than the other groups that might have done it.

2. Teen vandalism -Teens or various groups that have been hanging there end of day. I remember what I did when I was a teen, especially after I had a few beers and smoked a few spliffs. I found teens at Brookhaven, LI were a large part of the problem for shoreham Beach. Yet this was mostly blamed on fishermen. This IMO is a greater possibility than a group of fishermen doing this, based on my experience.

3. Eco- groups - we remember that a similar action happened earlier in the season at Hatteras, where the plover closure season was extended because of vandalism. Who stands to benefit the most from extending these closures? IMO the environmental groups would benefit the most, and get extra publicity and contribution dollars when they solicit people for the fundraisers.

Again, I'm not accusing any one group, I'm just trying to start a conversation with people here about who is most likely to benefit from a closure.

As it stands, this year's closure has lasted longer than any one I can remember previously. I don't know how the eco-groups managed to pull that one off, guys, but rest assured the next year will be the same unless we are willing to peacefully protest and make our own waves so our rights aren't trampled on.


As for the closures and penalties, they are real, guys, If they spot you out there at Sandy Hook, you will be fined, so be careful.

A few members on this site were let go with written warnings, and the tickets are $75. They can chime in and tell you more if they want. So whether you agree with it or not, please be careful.

And if you're not happy about the length of the closures, let's get together and try to find a Senator or Representative who can help us for next year. The only way we can do this is with numbers of fishermen behind us. guys. 5 or 10 fishermen cannot make a difference in this specific situaltion.

Number 3! Hate to say it but the eco-freaks are probably the guilty party here. The more attention they can drum up to "SAVE THE EARTH". The more space they can reserve for themselves to enjoy, without the LOW-LIFE public spoiling their peace.
JMO,
Fossil on the side

[storminsteve]

Number 3! Hate to say it but the eco-freaks are probably the guilty party here. The more attention they can drum up to "SAVE THE EARTH". The more space they can reserve for themselves to enjoy, without the LOW-LIFE public spoiling their peace.
JMO,
Fossil on the side

What he said, I have found those folks to be some of the most stuck up, condescending, elitist people I have ever come across.

[VSdreams]

Number 3! Hate to say it but the eco-freaks are probably the guilty party here. Fossil on the side

x2!

[DarkSkies]

I recently filmed a closure area at Sandy Hook. It's my contention that the plover closure areas are not holding nesting birds anymore, nor have there been any plovers there for several weeks in large sections of the closed areas.

Here's a pic from the video, and a little commentary I put up on vimeo.




We all know the piping plover is a protected shorebird, and it should be. I have no issues with that. As an avid sportsman, I don't want to see any species faced with extinction (except humans who litter, maybe).
So we should protect the plovers, and let them make their nests, and procreate. But what happens when the people who are in charge of the program seem to be over-zealous? I went to Sandy Hook National Park on Fri July 31, 2009 and filmed a plover closure area.
I observed the area for approx 35 minutes. At no time did I see any plovers, or their young,. or any other shorebirds, in the area I observed.
It's my belief that the plovers have been finished nesting for weeks. Yet the areas still remain closed, and we as fishermen are not allowed to enjoy and use them.
We all must respect nature and the delicate balance, but this is something that doesn't sit right with me. They are keeping an area closed much longer than they need to be. Feel free to use this video and my comments to support anything I said, or if you wish to raise awareness of, about the length and effectiveness of this program.
We all must work together to save this planet and the delicate ecosystems. However, when one group is allowed to put forth their regulations for longer than is scientifically necessary, maybe changes should be made. Thanks for watching!


Here's the video:

[seamonkey]

It's my belief that the plovers have been finished nesting for weeks. Yet the areas still remain closed, and we as fishermen are not allowed to enjoy and use them.
We all must respect nature and the delicate balance, but this is something that doesn't sit right with me. They are keeping an area closed much longer than they need to be. Feel free to use this video and my comments to support anything I said, or if you wish to raise awareness of, about the length and effectiveness of this program.
We all must work together to save this planet and the delicate ecosystems. However, when one group is allowed to put forth their regulations for longer than is scientifically necessary, maybe changes should be made. Thanks for watching!


Here's the video:

I agree with what you said 100%!

[dogfish]

I like roasted plovers, didn't Kenny Rogers have a special on them for awhile? Good job DS.

[cowherder]

Dark, I walked some of the areas that you were talking about in that video. I couldn't find one plover at all, and I really looked for them. If someone ever wants to put a petition together to the National Park Service, I'm in! I think it's disgusting that they closed all those areas for that long. I searched for a pic of a plover so I would know what to look for, and posted it up. Again, I did not see even one!

[DarkSkies]

Here's the sign where they offer a reward for whoever disturbed the nests. Even money says that someone connected with the environmentalists was responsible for that destruction.

[VSdreams]

Here's the sign where they offer a reward for whoever disturbed the nests. Even money says that someone connected with the environmentalists was responsible for that destruction.

I would have to agree with you here. I hate those stupid birds, but would never do anything to harm them, or cause them to close down an area further. Doesn't make sense to me that a fisherman would do it.

[Frankiesurf]

I spoke to a National Wildlife Service official in regards to the Piping Plover a few months ago. The jurisdiction in which the nests are located is responsible for them. What the usage limits are and length of time the nests and closures are in place.

The plovers are usually gone by the end of July. If the nests are disturbed then that mating pair will usually stick around until their brood are considered fledglings ( about 30 days after hatching). Then they are on their own.

Again, it is up to the local jurisdiction as to when they take down the enclosures for the nest and repeal the closures.

These birds,and even more so the young, are extremely difficult to see. If they are not near the nest and see an intruder they will not go back to the nest until the danger has cleared. When they perceive danger they remain still. It is basically impossible to see them when they do until you are near them.

I hate to see fishermen denouncing and joking about the extinction of a species. The numbers of these birds have come back in recent years but last year the numbers were down. This is mostly due to recreational beach users.

Survival of the fittest is the wrong term to use when you pit a two ton truck against a two ounce bird. They had been striving for years until recreational beach use, especially when off road vehicles came to play.

[DarkSkies]

You make some good points there Frankie. I don't want to see a species driven to extinction either. Anyone who reads a history of the American buffalo can understand how easily that can be accomplished. My biggest issue that caused me to shoot that video is that long after the plovers have left the nest, at SH they still keep the barriers up. I was wondering if someone who works with plovers every day could explain to me why this was so.


Meanwhile, at least at SH, the birders were there every day this year, and walked down a lot of the trails as they took their pics of them. I didn't see anyone tresspass, don't want to fling any accusations. I only think we should be able to work together on this, even though fishermen and environmentalists seem to come from different worlds. Just my crazy opinion, as usual, about the ideal of all parties working together to resolve an issue.