Spotburn thread

[ledhead36]

I think the majority of us have been fishing for years and spot burning really us up. I have seen some talk lately at other places where people are complaining about not giving up the info.

We have taken the time to learn the areas, done our homework by looking during low tide, and been successful at our finds. Why would anyone want to put that information out there for the lazy arses who want to let us do the work and them pull in the cows?

[SharkHart]

You can drive yourself crazy trying to get those to understand. The lazy ones outweigh the ones who do their work 25 to 1. On those other place, man they got one fish and it did a 5 website publicity tour!! People he fished with from another place were vocal about the place to which is private property which tolerates some fishing if it doesnt get out of control so its just dumb bringing added attention to it.

Everyone goes through and evolution though, if something is given to them without work they give it right away too and it goes on an on, after they go fishing a few times and its elbow to elbow and they cant get in they eventually learn and change

[dogfish]

We have taken the time to learn the areas, done our homework by scouting during low tide, and been successful at our finds. Why would anyone want to put that information out there for the lazy bums who want to let us do the work and them pull in the cows?

Right on, it's taken me years to become better, why would I want to give that all away? A lot of new guys want to be a "champeen surfcaster" in 1 year or less. Pay your dues. When guys see you out there often enough, they'll help, a little at a time. That's the way I do it.

[DarkSkies]

I think there are a few different ways of looking at it. Neither extreme makes sense. There was another site I used to post on. A guy I met at the Brookhaven meeting was labeled a troublemaker because a father was asking for places to take his kids fishin for snappers. Guys jumped all over the post saying it was spot burning.

So the guy, we'll call him Aqualung posted a bunch of locations where the Dad could take his kids fishing. I didn't see anything wrong with that, gave the guy respect for standiing up to the rants.

On another site, their official policy is:

"Spot burning is not an issue here, TALKING or COMPLAINING about it is, All posts COMPLAINING about spot burning will be deleted."
You gotta be frikkin kiddin me, man.

Their justification for this policy is that "fish move". That may be true, but I could give you a handful of locations where there were fish last year for weeks at a time. And SharkHart might have been referring to an old reliable place where you can catch fish year round, depending on the water temp. So why would you want to potentially alert thousands of people to these locations? Isn't it irresponsible to not take into account that internet lurkers are reading the posts, and why would you want to turn all these people onto a location with limited capacity?

I like what ya said here, Shark
"Everyone goes through and evolution though, if something is given to them without work they give it right away too and it goes on an on, after they go fishing a few times and its elbow to elbow and they cant get in they eventually learn and change."


Either it's elbow to elbow, or you lose access, which is what happened when that guy took a crap in the priest's bathroom at St Alphonse's. We lost that spot because too many guys were converging on it with no respect to the surroundings.

[bababooey]

It's almost as bad in the boating world, but not quite. I have friends who went to Block Island for the codfishing. They described a parking lot of boats up there. I think it's reasonable that we should all give each other a little breathing room, and agree that being too chatty with locations doesn't help. Just my .02.

[DarkSkies]

Any of you who knew me on the internet 2 years ago know that I got into it with quite a few people about this. It's serious to me because I love to fish so much.

I realize I used to go about it all wrong. Yelling at someone telling them how their thinking is short-sighted wins you no prizes, and hardly ever gets your point across effectively. IMO Joe had a good point here when he set up those "please don't spotburn" paragraphs at the beginning of the weekly fishin reports.

What started this thread in my mind was when I saw where the owner of another site set up a thread asking people not to spotburn. This was in response to blatant spotburning in the Hudson River. Striperjim, the owner and a guy I admire, asked people to consider the effects of spotburning key Hudson shore areas on the internet. Boat guys have many choices. However, if you fish from shore and you want to increase your chances of catching, there are only a few key legal spots where fish gravitate to that have current .

He went on to say PM's detailing info are fine, he merely had an issue with the public posts available to everyone to look at. For this he was accused of being selfish or elitist.

So I'm asking for opinions here, postitive or negative, you're entitled to your opinion, let's hear it.

[DarkSkies]

Here's a general list of other things I've seen on other sites regarding spotburning. Feel free to share your own comments and opinions, or to comment on any of these.

I'm most interested in hearing Why or Why not you feel the way you do? Any general examples you can bring to this discussion would be a great way to illustrate your point. thanks, guys.



1. Fish move, they don't stay in the same place from one day to the next.
I know of 6 places in Moco alone where they were there every day, or came in every day at different times, or were there every night. Why would someone want to share this with the internet world?


2. Spot burning is nothing to worry about, most of those places are well-known already, those spots have already been burnt.
The issue with that statement is that the internet is the real-time medium of exchange in the times we live in. If someone is murdered in Budapest, we can know about it minutes later on the internet. Info speads like lightning.
3. What's the harm of talking about it in the open, it's just a few friends here, why be so selfish with the info?

4. "Spot burning is not an issue here, but complaining about it is. Any posts here complaining about spot-burning will be deleted, and the complainer may be removed from the site. "
(This is a real quote from a popular site, guys, un-believable. )

5. Spot burning is not OUR fault, it's gotten bad because of the OTHER guys...(boats, newspapers, fishing magazines, fishing shows, etc)
Pass the buck and put the blame on others instead of working to minimize the problem, great concept.

6. You're upset at us passing out information, we just want to see our friends catch fish, why do you need to be selfish with the info?
Ever heard of PM's?

7. What's the use, it will only get worse anyway. There's nothing we can do about it, why try?
This is a similar argument advanced as to why the beaches will always have trash on them, so why bother?

8.
9.
10.

[seamonkey]

Spotburning should not be tolerated. When the action is on the "phone a friend" can really suck.

I'm out on the surf reeling in fish and the next thing I know a guy is phoning a friend. Then 10 people appear plus their friends.

[surfwalker]

Maybe I'm totally off base on this, but I don't depend on too many reports to base where I'll be plugging. I believe that you make your own reports by scouting areas and see what it produces, it's more satisfying. We all know what type of water has the better chance of catching and these spots will always be crowded. But to specifically name a spot I think is wrong, to me. To name spots only makes that area more congested and harder to work, not much fun. You have to remember that on here you're not talking one on one, but thousands of eyes are reading these spots. As far as cell phones, well, what can you do? I shy away from crowded areas, I don't enjoy horseing a Bass across the water as not to tangle with the inconsiderate guy next to me that doesn't pull up. I don't like people casting over my head. I don't own the beach, so I just move on and find my own spots. The fish don't stay in one place all the time. So, spot burning is a sore spot for me, I don't like it. Get out and learn your own spots and enjoy them. Every year the pressure is getting greater and greater in our areas.

[jimbob]

I agree with Surfwalker, I have spent a lot of time cultivating some of my spots I don't usually see anyone when I go there its only a matter of time till someone else finds these spots. you don't want to have someone tell everyone about it and make it sooner. There are a lot of spots that I used to fish alone that are so crowded now that I have not fished there in years. My best spots are those that are a long walk from my truck, not too many people will make the effort to go there. Why would anyone want to spotburn in the first place, What would be the advantage?

[jonthepain]

Most of my surffishing has been done pre-cell phone and pre-internet. And it always amazed me how quick the beach would fill up as soon as I started catching fish.

I can't imagine why anyone in their right mind would broadcast to the world where the fish are at. I mean, back in the day, my fishing buddies and I wouldn't even tell our close friends where we had been having success. It only takes one yahoo to ruin it for everybody by blabbing in the bar about the great spot where they (or their pal) pulled in a coupla 15#ers the night before.

Guaranteed that spot would be unfishable for years after that.

We were more about disinformation. If somebody asked, "where'd ya get 'em?", we'd crook a finger in our cheek and say "right there."

On the beach, if some googan asked, "whatcha catchin em on?" we'd say, "Baloney." "Baloney?" "yep. ran outta cheese."

if they stood there for a while, watching our lines, eventually we'd take a long pull on the flask and say, "gotta keep it fresh, though." and then pointedly NOT check our bait.

[stripermania]

Too many people depend on reports. Funny thing about fishing is that one day it is great and the next day it's off. I like to fish alone and find my own spots.

Let the spotburners go with the crowd.

[stormchaser]

I fish LI, there is a site out here, (named after a weather pattern), that basically paints a map to where they caught fish. Why can't they be a little more vague? If people are catching fish, that's fine I want to know that. I don't have to know where, like surfwalker and others said, make your own reports.

[albiealert]

In Connecticut there is no such thing as spot burning because there are no spots. Seriously I think everyone could be a little more cautious. We have almost no access here, so guys who want to keep fishing are tight-lipped.

[clamchucker]

Dark, 20 years ago we didn't have this problem. The guys who fished an area kept to tnemselves or the groups of people they fished with. Now ego has gotten into the equation, and people want to be a hero by telling everyone the exact location where the fish are. Low self-esteem probably comes into play here, who knows?

[stormchaser]

Some good points, I think ego is involved. Otherwise guys would just keep it quiet.

[pescador29]

its very crowded where I fish, and darkskies explained it to me why. i will say staten island now, i understand, you are right. too much talk talk on the computer. the people on the computer are not all your friends.

[Rip-Plugger]

I have to say that I agree with NOT burning a spot unless you mention a huge area where one must do some walking or experiment.
I put in my time for 31 years now and I don't share info with anyone but my partner and sometimes not even with him,,based on MY time spent doing recon.
time is more valuable than money so I put it's value at the pont it should be.I spend time out there learning patterns,losing sleep,spending money on fuel so,I see it as my reward for doing recon and getting the patterns down.
I don't share that info although I will still fish with someone.
thats just MHO and I stick to it!


R-P

[Rip-Plugger]

Some good points, I think ego is involved. Otherwise guys would just keep it quiet.

you are right SC,I catch a 30lber on wood,I don't need to tell,I take a picture and add it to my collection,heck,last year I caught a few good fish and wrote it in my logbook and my partner didn't even know till I read it to him a few days ago.

most times I don't tell anyone,if they ask what I'm catching I simply say,ahh,I'm getting a few here/there.


R-P

[paumanok]

I work hard for my special spots. I like to share them. Although, I do it cagily. I do tend to be selective about who I share them with.

One rule of thumb is to feel a guy out. If he seems knowledgeable, if it's clear he's "put in his time," I might talk generically about a particular stage of the tide on a particular type of structure. If I detect a glint of recognition in his eye, I might share an actual spot.

Another rule: if an angler gives up a spot to me that I didn't know of (if it wasn't an obvious spot, one that I merely hadn't gotten around to yet--but one I'm genuinely surprised about), I'll likely try to give him a heads up about one of mine.

On the other hand, there's that guy down the beach with a fly rod who clearly doesn't have much of a clue. He saunters by, crestfallen, a pleading look in his eyes. He stops to chat. Again, I'll try to size him up. If he's just toolin' around, then it's just time for him to go home. Good-bye. But if he seems in earnest, I'll show him a spot (some structure, a rip, a seam...) in the immediate area and explain how I might fish it. But I'll always leave out a few key elements. "Those," I'll say, "are the things you learn by putting in the time."

I won't burn special spots, but I don't hesitate to help someone learn how to find them on his (or her) own. This game of fishing is pretty much all about that: learning and teaching and learning some more.