Spotburn thread

[ledhead36]

I think the majority of us have been fishing for years and spot burning really us up. I have seen some talk lately at other places where people are complaining about not giving up the info.

We have taken the time to learn the areas, done our homework by looking during low tide, and been successful at our finds. Why would anyone want to put that information out there for the lazy arses who want to let us do the work and them pull in the cows?

[SharkHart]

You can drive yourself crazy trying to get those to understand. The lazy ones outweigh the ones who do their work 25 to 1. On those other place, man they got one fish and it did a 5 website publicity tour!! People he fished with from another place were vocal about the place to which is private property which tolerates some fishing if it doesnt get out of control so its just dumb bringing added attention to it.

Everyone goes through and evolution though, if something is given to them without work they give it right away too and it goes on an on, after they go fishing a few times and its elbow to elbow and they cant get in they eventually learn and change

[dogfish]

We have taken the time to learn the areas, done our homework by scouting during low tide, and been successful at our finds. Why would anyone want to put that information out there for the lazy bums who want to let us do the work and them pull in the cows?

Right on, it's taken me years to become better, why would I want to give that all away? A lot of new guys want to be a "champeen surfcaster" in 1 year or less. Pay your dues. When guys see you out there often enough, they'll help, a little at a time. That's the way I do it.

[DarkSkies]

I think there are a few different ways of looking at it. Neither extreme makes sense. There was another site I used to post on. A guy I met at the Brookhaven meeting was labeled a troublemaker because a father was asking for places to take his kids fishin for snappers. Guys jumped all over the post saying it was spot burning.

So the guy, we'll call him Aqualung posted a bunch of locations where the Dad could take his kids fishing. I didn't see anything wrong with that, gave the guy respect for standiing up to the rants.

On another site, their official policy is:

"Spot burning is not an issue here, TALKING or COMPLAINING about it is, All posts COMPLAINING about spot burning will be deleted."
You gotta be frikkin kiddin me, man.

Their justification for this policy is that "fish move". That may be true, but I could give you a handful of locations where there were fish last year for weeks at a time. And SharkHart might have been referring to an old reliable place where you can catch fish year round, depending on the water temp. So why would you want to potentially alert thousands of people to these locations? Isn't it irresponsible to not take into account that internet lurkers are reading the posts, and why would you want to turn all these people onto a location with limited capacity?

I like what ya said here, Shark
"Everyone goes through and evolution though, if something is given to them without work they give it right away too and it goes on an on, after they go fishing a few times and its elbow to elbow and they cant get in they eventually learn and change."


Either it's elbow to elbow, or you lose access, which is what happened when that guy took a crap in the priest's bathroom at St Alphonse's. We lost that spot because too many guys were converging on it with no respect to the surroundings.

[bababooey]

It's almost as bad in the boating world, but not quite. I have friends who went to Block Island for the codfishing. They described a parking lot of boats up there. I think it's reasonable that we should all give each other a little breathing room, and agree that being too chatty with locations doesn't help. Just my .02.

[DarkSkies]

Any of you who knew me on the internet 2 years ago know that I got into it with quite a few people about this. It's serious to me because I love to fish so much.

I realize I used to go about it all wrong. Yelling at someone telling them how their thinking is short-sighted wins you no prizes, and hardly ever gets your point across effectively. IMO Joe had a good point here when he set up those "please don't spotburn" paragraphs at the beginning of the weekly fishin reports.

What started this thread in my mind was when I saw where the owner of another site set up a thread asking people not to spotburn. This was in response to blatant spotburning in the Hudson River. Striperjim, the owner and a guy I admire, asked people to consider the effects of spotburning key Hudson shore areas on the internet. Boat guys have many choices. However, if you fish from shore and you want to increase your chances of catching, there are only a few key legal spots where fish gravitate to that have current .

He went on to say PM's detailing info are fine, he merely had an issue with the public posts available to everyone to look at. For this he was accused of being selfish or elitist.

So I'm asking for opinions here, postitive or negative, you're entitled to your opinion, let's hear it.

[DarkSkies]

Here's a general list of other things I've seen on other sites regarding spotburning. Feel free to share your own comments and opinions, or to comment on any of these.

I'm most interested in hearing Why or Why not you feel the way you do? Any general examples you can bring to this discussion would be a great way to illustrate your point. thanks, guys.



1. Fish move, they don't stay in the same place from one day to the next.
I know of 6 places in Moco alone where they were there every day, or came in every day at different times, or were there every night. Why would someone want to share this with the internet world?


2. Spot burning is nothing to worry about, most of those places are well-known already, those spots have already been burnt.
The issue with that statement is that the internet is the real-time medium of exchange in the times we live in. If someone is murdered in Budapest, we can know about it minutes later on the internet. Info speads like lightning.
3. What's the harm of talking about it in the open, it's just a few friends here, why be so selfish with the info?

4. "Spot burning is not an issue here, but complaining about it is. Any posts here complaining about spot-burning will be deleted, and the complainer may be removed from the site. "
(This is a real quote from a popular site, guys, un-believable. )

5. Spot burning is not OUR fault, it's gotten bad because of the OTHER guys...(boats, newspapers, fishing magazines, fishing shows, etc)
Pass the buck and put the blame on others instead of working to minimize the problem, great concept.

6. You're upset at us passing out information, we just want to see our friends catch fish, why do you need to be selfish with the info?
Ever heard of PM's?

7. What's the use, it will only get worse anyway. There's nothing we can do about it, why try?
This is a similar argument advanced as to why the beaches will always have trash on them, so why bother?

8.
9.
10.

[seamonkey]

Spotburning should not be tolerated. When the action is on the "phone a friend" can really suck.

I'm out on the surf reeling in fish and the next thing I know a guy is phoning a friend. Then 10 people appear plus their friends.

[surfwalker]

Maybe I'm totally off base on this, but I don't depend on too many reports to base where I'll be plugging. I believe that you make your own reports by scouting areas and see what it produces, it's more satisfying. We all know what type of water has the better chance of catching and these spots will always be crowded. But to specifically name a spot I think is wrong, to me. To name spots only makes that area more congested and harder to work, not much fun. You have to remember that on here you're not talking one on one, but thousands of eyes are reading these spots. As far as cell phones, well, what can you do? I shy away from crowded areas, I don't enjoy horseing a Bass across the water as not to tangle with the inconsiderate guy next to me that doesn't pull up. I don't like people casting over my head. I don't own the beach, so I just move on and find my own spots. The fish don't stay in one place all the time. So, spot burning is a sore spot for me, I don't like it. Get out and learn your own spots and enjoy them. Every year the pressure is getting greater and greater in our areas.

[jimbob]

I agree with Surfwalker, I have spent a lot of time cultivating some of my spots I don't usually see anyone when I go there its only a matter of time till someone else finds these spots. you don't want to have someone tell everyone about it and make it sooner. There are a lot of spots that I used to fish alone that are so crowded now that I have not fished there in years. My best spots are those that are a long walk from my truck, not too many people will make the effort to go there. Why would anyone want to spotburn in the first place, What would be the advantage?

[DarkSkies]

Here's a general list of other things I've seen on other sites regarding spotburning.




2. Spot burning is nothing to worry about, most of those places are well-known already, those spots have already been burnt.
The issue with that statement is that the internet is the real-time medium of exchange in the times we live in. If someone is murdered in Budapest, we can know about it minutes later on the internet. Info speads like lightning.

4. "Spot burning is not an issue here, but complaining about it is. Any posts here complaining about spot-burning will be deleted, and the complainer may be removed from the site. "
(This is a real quote from a popular site, guys, un-believable. )

OK so now we have a 2nd site out there that IMO seems to condone spot-burning, or at least publically claims it's not an issue for them.

When many sites are becoming more understanding of the Access problems and issues surf fishermen face, there are at least 2 out there that seem to be going in the opposite direction, and seemingly equate giving out explicit reports with increased membership and ad dollars.

To some of these sites out there, it seems the ad dollars and membership numbers are more important than the damage from disrespectful fishermen, littering, and the aggravation of the neighbors who live in those areas.

I'm posting the following exchange I had with a Moderator from another site. Please don't attack or criticize this guy. He's just doing his job, and following orders from above. I believe him to be a good guy, and have had several decent online conversations with him since this original PM.

I edited out some parts so people wouldn't recognize this particular moderator.

However, the issue is that management seems to condone spot burning here, without recognizing all the potential applications and collateral damage to the spot, and the neighbors. This is a terrible position to take, IMO. Nothing can be done about it, The mighty ad dollar reigns supreme once again.


The PM's:

"You can not post to the "Posted Report Comments and Questions" because a moderator has banned you from doing so."

Hey ** what's up. I got the above message, and wondered why I was banned from posting and for how long?

I thought my comments were honest and based in reality. There was no profanity in there, or anything that put the guy down. They were simply honest comments addressing the problems we as surf fishermen have when a site published the exact locations a decent fish is caught.

There were other guys who live in that area nicely trying to say the same thing I said, and I see you deleted their posts as well.

I'm wondering if people who live in an area, and see the results of spot burning, voice their objective opinion, why you would be so quick to censor it on your site, and not try to allow their respectful comments, or at least address them so the whole fishing community would benefit?

I wonder if you fish the surf, or if you do more of your fishing from a boat? For surf guys, and people who live in those neighborhoods, it is a big issue that won't go away.. Trash, littering, and disrespect by anonymous fishermen is getting out of hand.

I am sure you can see by the closures at places like Brookhaven that when it gets out of hand the residents unite and find all sorts of loopholes to restrict access.

Therefore, I'm wondering why you guys seem to stifle any dialogue about this. Eventually it will cause more harm than good by ignoring it. So I'm wondering why you made the decisions you made to delete quite a few posts that were merely pointing out the difficulty the residents up there have had with various fishermen?

OK so you decided to delete my post, but banning me from posting? I think that's unreasonable. I try my best to be positive, say nice things about the reports, and speak honestly, and diplomatically. Would appreciate an explanation, thanks. DarkSkies


His reply:

No need to type a long PM to me about your " issues" in the surf community, they are all well too known by all us mods. The issue of spot burning is a non-issue as far as * is concerned, so that is all I, and the membership here, needs to know...

Frankly, it is irrelevant what type of fishing I personally do. * has it's guidelines that you and every other member agreed to abide by when you registered. I don't have to be a surf fisherman to see when those guidelines are violated. ..... Makes me wonder why some of your surf brethren are even on this site,all they ever do is complain about *.

You guys just have to accept that * is not going to change it's policies. The owners of this site have been running things this way for some time, and if it were so terrible, we wouldn't have well over 50,000 registered members, plus advertisers from all over the country.

[plugcrazy]

Nothing can be done about it, The mighty ad dollar reigns supreme once again.

America the land of opportunity, where advertising money is the opium.

[jimbob]

Spot burning is bad enough, but censorship of ideas within a group of fishermen is a bad thing. What is this, China or Iran?