Spotburn thread

[surferman]

Are the locals more apt to keep quiet about their spots than those who come from far away? I know I pretty much keep my mouth closed.

[porgy75]

I am new to the game and have spent much time so far learning to read the beaches. I also watch people fish, trying to learn what bait is best to use and what plugs.

I have found that fisherman are good guys and answer most of my questions. That is one of the best things about this site. Everyone is friendly and glad to answer a question or two.

Hopefully by the end of the year I will have "put in my time" and will have become knowledgeable about where I think good spots are. I don't think I would be a spotburner.

[nitestrikes]

Alright, I kept quiet enough on this, you guys are all on the $$. There is another site where it's run by a corporation, the owner owns some kind of an internet search site and has been buying up fishing sites to fill in his portfolio, how quaint. I don't think the owner cares anything about fishing, for him it's all about the advertising dollars.

They post specific spots all the time, and you guys who fish the north shore know how tough access is. To be fair, I'll first post some of the good posts, and then some of the MOD posts. I think he must pay the mods serious money, otherwise how could they be so blind about spot burning??


"Good posts"

1. Here we go again! Someone who shall remain nameless recently posted about bass action at a spot on the east end. Now this spot is small and can handle a few guys, if they all work together, since you need a resident permit and it's early in the season all has been well. Now this joker has taken it upon himself to broadcast this action online. Why do people do this? Gor the 5th time I am asking the powers that be on this site to either eliminate the reports section altogether or at least make it impossible to specificly name a location. I know that the report section generates advertising $$$, but give me a break. The last thing we need here is a crowd of out of towners prowling around the area, without this post, they wouldn't even know about it, please no burning spots!



2. I agree to some extent with you. I don't mind the out of towners if they found the spot from scouting the area and realizing that they have found a good spot to fish. I do mind the spot burning. I just finished reading a few reports that will be unnamed and I see a lot of people using exact neames of beaches they are fishing that are not known to everybody. Most people do a lot of scouting to find places to fish that they know a lot of others will not be at and then people who don't know any better ruin those spots and cause more work for the people that are actually out doing the scouting. I don't mind if a general area is referred to because it helps people track where the migrating fish are expecially in the spring but please do not use specific beach names for beaches that are not well known to others.
Major places are ok to name but don't give the exact cooridinates of where you are fishing because then the spot won't be available the next time you want to go there. Seems pretty common sense to me.









3. Every year its the same routine with this subject. Some of you will never get it, continue to post and "help" other anglers, with out regard for the many you are hurting in the process. You guys just don't get it but each year one or two more do and that is what matters. All you self righteous guys who firmly believe you have a right to post specifics if you want simply don't understand the effects it has. So be it. But understand the other side of the argument as far as surf casters are concerned. Especially the boat guys who feel it is essential to weigh in on the subject in a surf forum.

The victories in this are small but worthwhile. Each person who learns to shut their trap does so when they climb another rung in the ranks of surf casting.

[nitestrikes]

"lame posts"


1. If I want to post exact locations of where I cought fish,GD it thats just what I'm going to do! Theres no law against it. Whats wrong with helping out another fisherman? Is under the light house in Montauk in the fall spot burning? Is Demo spot burning? I think some guys here have to grow up and get a job so they can fish any time they want and woun't have to worry about crowds.



2. I've explained why I'm pulling the plug on these topics several times already. I won't do it again. If you don't understand it, then I can't help you. And I certainly don't recall threatening anybody.

Surf fishing board = spots = the only reason people come here.

Please, feel free to test that theory at any of the other well known sites. Remember, nobody is forcing anybody to be here.

[CharlieTuna]

You won't hear spot burning from these lips. I have painstakingly studied all of my spots. I don't mind bring a buddy along every now and then but I would never put it on the web.

[wish4fish]

"There's a bait shop owner who has been posting videos like crazy.

I salute his enthusiasm, (and his wish to increase his bait and tackle sales) but he's not being careful with the background. There were 50 guys in one spot today based on what they saw in his videos. I got a couple calls from different groups of guys who aren't comfortable complaining about this publically, but they were irritated nonetheless.

I'm asking everyone to think before they point that video camera.

If you can point a camera, you theoretically have enough intelligence to point it towards the ground, and NOT focus on the surrounding scenery, when scenery shots would drive too many people to one place. People are smart, they know how to recognize landmarks.

I don't know about you other guys out there, but I'm very protective of the sites I fish, and I won't burn them to pull more members here, be more popular, or whatever.

I don't need more crowds at the spots I fish at. I feel very strongly about this."




dark this was in your spotburn video thread, i copied it. the dude is doin it again, he cant help himself, what a doosh!

[wish4fish]

heres another one, he should never have put that camera on those houses, anyone knows that spot, where's his brain? eff u dude!!! i will never buy bait at your crappy shop!





heres the right way to do it the guy is on a bridge but you don't see anything byt the fish. the fish is the video tackle shop doosh, NOT the houses, or the bridge, or the SPOT!!!!!! some people don't get it, that tackle shop guy doesn't have to fish there, what a tool!

[bababooey]

If you wouldn't mind hearing a boater's perspective, I have some input. On some of the websites you will find a high concentration of boaters. Report a good catch out there, and you will have all sorts of "friends" PMing you for the GPS coordinates. Half of these guys don't want to work for the catches, and I don't answer them. I don't mind giving up a few numbers to my friends, but it's a 2 way street. I can't stand the guys who expect everyone to share with them, What are they bringing to table?

[i bd fossil]

Not wanting to be rude, BUT;; How many of the people who complain about spot burning are the same ones who in the past who gave away the exact location where they caught that monster they couldn't stop talking about? Then got upset because other people show up at that spot and start to complain! Also as has been said there are less and less places to fish along with more people who want to fish, do the math. jmo

[Frankiesurf]

Nice video. Are these guys afraid of touching fish or do they just like standing on their guts?

[DarkSkies]

Here's a general list of other things I've seen on other sites regarding spotburning.




2. Spot burning is nothing to worry about, most of those places are well-known already, those spots have already been burnt.
The issue with that statement is that the internet is the real-time medium of exchange in the times we live in. If someone is murdered in Budapest, we can know about it minutes later on the internet. Info speads like lightning.

4. "Spot burning is not an issue here, but complaining about it is. Any posts here complaining about spot-burning will be deleted, and the complainer may be removed from the site. "
(This is a real quote from a popular site, guys, un-believable. )

OK so now we have a 2nd site out there that IMO seems to condone spot-burning, or at least publically claims it's not an issue for them.

When many sites are becoming more understanding of the Access problems and issues surf fishermen face, there are at least 2 out there that seem to be going in the opposite direction, and seemingly equate giving out explicit reports with increased membership and ad dollars.

To some of these sites out there, it seems the ad dollars and membership numbers are more important than the damage from disrespectful fishermen, littering, and the aggravation of the neighbors who live in those areas.

I'm posting the following exchange I had with a Moderator from another site. Please don't attack or criticize this guy. He's just doing his job, and following orders from above. I believe him to be a good guy, and have had several decent online conversations with him since this original PM.

I edited out some parts so people wouldn't recognize this particular moderator.

However, the issue is that management seems to condone spot burning here, without recognizing all the potential applications and collateral damage to the spot, and the neighbors. This is a terrible position to take, IMO. Nothing can be done about it, The mighty ad dollar reigns supreme once again.


The PM's:

"You can not post to the "Posted Report Comments and Questions" because a moderator has banned you from doing so."

Hey ** what's up. I got the above message, and wondered why I was banned from posting and for how long?

I thought my comments were honest and based in reality. There was no profanity in there, or anything that put the guy down. They were simply honest comments addressing the problems we as surf fishermen have when a site published the exact locations a decent fish is caught.

There were other guys who live in that area nicely trying to say the same thing I said, and I see you deleted their posts as well.

I'm wondering if people who live in an area, and see the results of spot burning, voice their objective opinion, why you would be so quick to censor it on your site, and not try to allow their respectful comments, or at least address them so the whole fishing community would benefit?

I wonder if you fish the surf, or if you do more of your fishing from a boat? For surf guys, and people who live in those neighborhoods, it is a big issue that won't go away.. Trash, littering, and disrespect by anonymous fishermen is getting out of hand.

I am sure you can see by the closures at places like Brookhaven that when it gets out of hand the residents unite and find all sorts of loopholes to restrict access.

Therefore, I'm wondering why you guys seem to stifle any dialogue about this. Eventually it will cause more harm than good by ignoring it. So I'm wondering why you made the decisions you made to delete quite a few posts that were merely pointing out the difficulty the residents up there have had with various fishermen?

OK so you decided to delete my post, but banning me from posting? I think that's unreasonable. I try my best to be positive, say nice things about the reports, and speak honestly, and diplomatically. Would appreciate an explanation, thanks. DarkSkies


His reply:

No need to type a long PM to me about your " issues" in the surf community, they are all well too known by all us mods. The issue of spot burning is a non-issue as far as * is concerned, so that is all I, and the membership here, needs to know...

Frankly, it is irrelevant what type of fishing I personally do. * has it's guidelines that you and every other member agreed to abide by when you registered. I don't have to be a surf fisherman to see when those guidelines are violated. ..... Makes me wonder why some of your surf brethren are even on this site,all they ever do is complain about *.

You guys just have to accept that * is not going to change it's policies. The owners of this site have been running things this way for some time, and if it were so terrible, we wouldn't have well over 50,000 registered members, plus advertisers from all over the country.

[DarkSkies]

Nice video. Are these guys afraid of touching fish or do they just like standing on their guts?

I agree, Frankie. Sometimes I'll see certain guys fishing and wonder why they bother? Won't handle or touch a fish, wearing the rubber gloves, throwing the rubber gloves on the ground instead of the garbage when they're finished, and lazily kicking a fish back in the water because they don't want to get their hands wet or touched by fish slime?

But that's for another thread, don't want to hijack the focus here.

[plugcrazy]

Nothing can be done about it, The mighty ad dollar reigns supreme once again.

America the land of opportunity, where advertising money is the opium.

[jimbob]

Spot burning is bad enough, but censorship of ideas within a group of fishermen is a bad thing. What is this, China or Iran?

[wish4fish]

with this report the guy might have as well painted a map, ***?


"The bass bite in the back continues to be good mostly schoolies on small plastic's and mambo's.The * has been a good spot,also behind the *.there is a nice access area to launch a yak right across the street from *. This is the time of year to fish back there ,lots a fish with a few 20-pounders mixed in u just have to put alot of time in back there."

[DarkSkies]

[4. "Spot burning is not an issue here, but complaining about it is. Any posts here complaining about spot-burning will be deleted, and the complainer may be removed from the site. "]


For a whole week now, the site above, known by the editing policy I noted in bold, has been letting the members reports name various towns, streets, and specific locations in Ocean county, NJ. In several instances these were small towns with limited parking and small streets. There is public access, but access can easily be lost if hordes of people converge upon one area because of an internet report. People have been sending me the links to those reports.

Here's one report I wrote a reply to. It was moderated, and my reply deleted by the moderator except for the first 2 lines. ( I wonder when we're gonna fish together, Jess? )

I'm not trying to single out the guy who wrote the report, as he's a visitor from another state here for the fall run.

He was merely trying to help his fellow anglers, I get that, that's admirable.

However, it should be the moderator and site owner's ethical responsibility to moderate posts that are too specific. Why is that not being done at this particular site?

What are some possible answers?
Greater ad revenue?
The desire to add to the membership base, no matter what the consequences to the fishing environment?
Pure arrogance?

I don't know what their answer is, but do know that some of the more popular fishing website owners, like Rod Redington from Bassbarn and Striperjim from Stripers247, have recently shifted their policy where they edit posts and don't permit specific spot burning. Kudos to them, for recognizing the problem that existed and trying to do something to alleviate it.

Yet this other site plods along, like an ostrich with its head in the sand, incorrectly claiming that there is no harm coming from its policy of listing specific sites and streets, even when the areas can be negatively impacted by too many fisherman at once.

I thank all you other fishermen for posting these examples up as well, as I can't be everwhere at once. As we do lose more access, I believe sites like that should bear a greater responsibility for the actions set in place by a spot specific internet report.

**************************************************


Here's the edited fishing report, I took out the location info:
Fished off *** Ave. ****** *****last night 12-4am, 2 shorts on clams just after mid-night. Blowing sand sent me home.

Back 8am-12pm, caught 13 (12 shorts mostly in 23-26 range). Must have missed 6-7 more. Saw others taking fish. Here's the deal ---- green tailed AVA 27 with white bucktail teaser. About 1/2 of fish taken on teaser. There are three shallow holes lined up at ***, *** Ave and another at ***. I was hooking up by standing on south side of hole as far out as I could manage in surf (not far) and casting as hard as I could to about 10 o'clock (facing ocean), reeling in wind slack as fast as possible, then continuing with fast retrieve. Most strikes happen within first 15 seconds while AVA was as far out as I could get it. A couple taken by throwing almost sideways into hole. That might be the trick a high tide but I left. Sore as $#@*.



Here's my response which they decided was too inflammatory to post?
Thanks for your detailed report, ***, glad you got some fish. It's quite an accomplishment to get into a hot bite.

I wonder if you are aware if you don't have a 4 wheel pass and have to walk on, parking isn't the best in that area. Also, I wondered if it was in the best interests of the fishing community, and the homeowners who live in that area, to expose that area to thousands of lurkers on the internet.

"Fish move", it's no big deal, I've been told.

When sandeels are set up in a place, fish might not move for weeks. I can guarantee solely because of this info on a public forum, there will be double the number of people cruising that area now.

I realize the intent of your post was to help your fellow striper anglers, and that's admirable.

To anyone who fishes a lot, I ask if you remember the great fall fishing we had at St Aphonse's in Long Branch, and how parking was closed down because a guy trespassed into the rectory to use their toilet, got caught, and argued with a priest.

Or the heavy concentration of people on the jetties on Deal in the spring, a town with 1 mile of shoreline that has restricted parking specifically because of the hordes of people that descended there. Much of this poor behavior is fueled by strangers reading internet reports of large fish caught.

I do enjoy reading your reports ***. It seems you want to help your fellow anglers and make it easier for them. You tell them how you caught the fish, which is a great component of any report.

But the "where" is the point I feel strongly against, especially on an open forum. There are plenty of ways to back-channel that kind of info. My reply may be censored here, but if anyone gets a chance to read it before it is, I ask that you at least consider these points.

We are all collectively responsible for the fishing access lost or problems created by loose lips on the internet. Saying it isn't an issue, and censoring someone from speaking about it, isn't the best way to deal with the big picture of more anglers fishing with real time info.

Thanks for reading this, guys.

[storminsteve]

I know the site you're talking about, Dark, I read the other guy's report yesterday. I think your answer to him was very diplomatic and carefully worded. After all he was only trying to help people catch fish. The moderator is another story though, what a .... He's the kind of guy who begged to be the hall monitor in high school, the wannabe cop kind of guy who needs to have that power over others because he has no power in real life. The heck with him, ....

[BassBuddah]

I hate when people do that. I don't know if it's possible to change the policy of a website. Look at noreast, they burn places all the time, it's good for business. That will never change, just my .02.

[baitstealer]

There is just no point to spot burning. By the time the report goes up the fish are gone. All that is created is a bunch of fisherman hoping to jump on the bandwagon without doing any scouting work. Next time you go out to one of your spots you find it crowded with fishermen mugging each other. What's the point?

[finchaser]

doesn't mean the people who show will catch them any way