Killing the big breeders

[DarkSkies]

I got no issue with people keeping fish. I eat them too. However I have been getting call after call from members, friends, and acquaintances the last few days, ranting about all the big fish that are being killed, and weighed in at tackle shops.

If you never caught a big fishin your life, and you catch a 40, of course you're probably going to keep it.You want to bring it home, show it to your family and friends, maybe brag a little.

It's human nature to be proud of something like that. That's understandable.

So I didn't start this thread to point the finger at people keeping fish, per se. Nothing wrong with it, I do it when I want one, and most importantly, the law allows us to keep 2, every trip.

What I want to focus on here is the people who feel the need to keep their limit every time, no matter what the conditions, and no matter how big the fish are. I would like to ask them publically why they do it?

Or, why would you get 2 big bass in the morning, bring them home, and come out on the beach in the afternoon, fish next to me, brag about your morning catch, and tell me that you you're back out to get 2 more keepers?

Is the self-esteem of people that low that the defining point of your life is to weigh big fish after big fish at the tackle shop? Is your life that empty that the only way to get recognition from your fishing peers is to weigh in fish after fish, so you are "fishing King of the jungle"?

These fish are hammered every year from Virginia, where they can keep 18" fish, to Mass. Guys say: "What's the big deal, we're only taking a few for the short time they're here"

Multiply that "short time" by a few weeks......

in Hatteras, a few weeks in Virginia, a few weeks in Albemarle Sound, a few weeks in Maryland and the Susquehanna flats, a few weeks in Delaware, a few weeks in Delaware Bay, a few weeks in the Delaware River, a few weeks in Cape May, a few weeks in Brigantine, a few weeks in LBI, a few weeks in IBSP, a few weeks in Long Branch, a few weeks in the Hudson, a few weeks in Rockaway, a few weeks in Fire Island, a few weeks in the Western sound, a few weeks on the North shore and South shore of LI, a few weeks in Montauk, a few weeks in Connecticut and the rivers where some fish still spawn, a few weeks on the rocky shores of Rhode Island, a few weeks off Block Island, a few weeks in Cape Cod, a few weeks off Plum Island, a few weeks in Martha's Vineyard, and many other places that I didn't get to mention.





I hate having I start threads like these. I have difficulty sometimes deciding how to present these issues for discussion. I know that angering or offending people for doing what they're legally alowed by law to do is not a good strategy.

So I apologize ahead of time if some are offended by my words here. But if you are offended or disturbed by what I'm saying, I would encourage you to honestly ask yourself "Why?" my words are offending you?

There's a guy on another site, comes in all the time to tell people they shouldn't be keeping fish, rants about it ad nauseum. I remember that guy, wonder if he's still causing the trouble he used to?

The thing about that guy, is that even though his intentions might be honorable, he goes about it the wrong way, and people tune him out. He has gotten so offensive that whenever he posts, people look at as an opportunity for an argument.

I don't want to be that guy, his message gets nowhere because he tries to push it on people.

My biggest question here is: just because the law allows us to keep big breeder fish, are we within our moral rights to do so? Is it the smartest thing to do for our fishing future to take our limit every time?

Why would some of us need to bring in fish after fish to the tackle shops, even when we have achieved our personal best, and gotten to a good level of competence in our fishing skills?

[DarkSkies]

Here's some examples of why I feel there is something wrong with the status quo, why I feel the need to discuss it here, and why I want to be involved somehow with changing this kind of mentality and awareness in my lifetime.

I know it's discussed over and over every year on every internet fishing board, and among guys who have been fishing a long time. I don't imagine that this thread will make a difference in the bahavior of people, I know it won't.

What I can try to do is raise awareness.

By raising awareness, maybe a few more pople will become incensed, or vocal about what they're seeing out there,and report it here, so others can see the excesses of our behavior. Maybe then, we can start a dialogue, and try to do something.

In the meantime, all opinions are welcome here. There is no right or wrong. Even if your opinion is opposite of what I have stated, I would like to hear it, and why.



Wasting big fish:

1.There is a marina in Point Pleasant. Last year, after many people weighed these big bass in after catching them on their boats, they decided for whatever reason they didn't want them, didn't want to clean them, or they left the fish out too long without ice, and dumped whole fish in the dumpster. This behavior became so widespread that there is now a sign at that marina saying "No fish cleaning".

2. Not to be one-sided about slamming boat fishermen, last year around this time, there was a club that had a surf tournament. After the tournament, there were 9 big bass found in the dumpster in the firehouse at Long Branch. This is not necessarily to slam clubs either. Many of the clubs I know of now have "no-kill" policies where you can take a measurement and pics of the fish, and still qualify on the leader board. This is a great policy that all clubs should follow to try to set an example by.

The club that I promote here and am a member of, www.stripercoastsurfcasters.org, has a no-kill, catch and release policy for all tournaments. A pic and tape measurement of the fish are all that's required to enter a fish, and I applaud them for that.

3. "Culling fish" - this is no longer a rumor. I have heard this story a half-dozen times from different people who were eye-witness to this behavior. What this means is that when the big blitzes are going on, a person will catch a 25, 15 minutes later catch (2) 35 or 40# fish, and leave the 25 on the rocks or give it to someone so they can claim ownership of the 2 larger fish

This is something that shouldn't go on any longer. I would encourage anyone who sees this going on to either say something when its happening, or report the violators to the wardens listed here.

NJ poaching violations
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=45

NY poaching violations
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...read.php?t=148

[vpass]

This is my opinion, the laws needs to be changed. Two Bass is too much. Between recreational fisherman, and Commercial fisherman, I could see the Stock dropping to what it was in the 80’s, which this time the Stripers may not recover. We should all be responsible to protect this natural resource.

Tournaments should be more ethical. All Tournaments should be catch and release with no Keeping.

There should be special fines for wasting fish. These bass that were found in a Dumpster could have been donated to feeding the Homeless. I get real twisted inside when I here such things. The Tackle shops should setup something for donating fish to feed the poor, better then the dumpster. The dumping of fish is proof that to many are being kept.

[jimbob]

In a perfect world fisheries managers will set limits that preserve the fish, I hate to say this ,but maybe it's time for a saltwater license or some kind of national registry to get accurate numbers of fish caught. I agree that there should be some kind of penalty for throwing fish away. I have a friend who has only been fishing since after the moratorium. He keeps every fish he is allowed by law to keep, this has been the source of many heated arguments between us. His argument is that he he has not killed as many fish as I have over the years. There is no argument that will make him change his mind. Unfortunatly the only thing that will make him see the light is another crash in the stock. They say people who don't learn from history will be condemned to repeat it.

[finchaser]

2007 reports allot of 40 and 50's
2008 reports mostly 40 and 30's
2009 reports mostly 30 and 20's

They say people who don't learn from history will be condemned to repeat it.

So True^^^^^ but you can't stop the tackle store hero especially now with B&N doing video weigh in's

[Monty]

Just my 2 cents:
There was a thread here somewhere where if I remember correctly most posters would be very happy with a one fish limit at say ~36 inches.
I think until the striper numbers are depleted and something along the one fish limit is put in place we will continue to have this discussion.

Here is what I don't like:
1) Charters taking out customers and limiting out all the time (2) fish
2) Clubs that do not have a catch and release format
3) Anyone who catches and kills and the fish goes to waste
4) That culling stuff is rediculas (someone should have broken his rod when they saw this).
5) Striper bycatch, netting


No proplem with:
1) Someone lands one or two 20 or 30 or 40 pound fish and stops at the B & T and weighs it in, takes home and it/they are eaten
2) B & T shops for weighing the fish
These two are part of the experience. Not everyone fishes 3-7x a week all year and it's not routine for them to catch a keeper. Its a big deal for them, an acomplishment. Its fun for some people. (Its not against the law and within regulations).

I agree with the saltwater license. Raise money and inforce regulaions.

The big problem is in the regulations. They need to be changed. The striper fishery cannot sustain the pressure that these current regulations allow (JMHO). Hopefully regulations are adjusted quickly (Fluke regs changed quick).
Common sense and decency, (culling, clubs killing bass for points, keeping shorts) is something some people just don't have. Inforcing regulations is the only way to punish them.


Just because the law allows us to keep big breeder fish, are we within our moral rights to do so? Is it the smartest thing to do for our fishing future to take our limit every time?

Yes it is withen our moral rights to keep big fish (regulations).
To take a limit every time is just plain stupid.
And I'll add that the current regulations are just plain stupid.

2007 reports allot of 40 and 50's
2008 reports mostly 40 and 30's
2009 reports mostly 30 and 20's

They say people who don't learn from history will be condemned to repeat it.

So True^^^^^ but you can't stop the tackle store hero especially now with B&N doing video weigh in's

[finchaser]

1) Charters taking out customers and limiting out all the time (2) fish ^^^^^^^^



To the best of my knowledge Charter and Head Boats are allowed 3 per person because there bonus tag covers everyone on the boat including the captain and mates

[Monty]

I thought that was the case.
Can you believe this, it goes to show how out of wack this whole "regulation" thing is.
It disgusts me.

1) Charters taking out customers and limiting out all the time (2) fish ^^^^^^^^



To the best of my knowledge Charter and Head Boats are allowed 3 per person because there bonus tag covers everyone on the boat including the captain and mates

[nitestrikes]

2007 reports allot of 40 and 50's
2008 reports mostly 40 and 30's
2009 reports mostly 30 and 20's

They say people who don't learn from history will be condemned to repeat it.

So True^^^^^ but you can't stop the tackle store hero especially now with B&N doing video weigh in's

Who's BnN? A fisherman you know who videos his weigh ins? It's not enough to weigh them on a scale, the guy has to video it as well? Does he have a camera crew with him while he is fishing?Sounds like the guy is an attention ho. These big bass are not everlasting. It's not like there is a neverending supply. I don't understand why people don't get it.

[voyager35]

The big problem is in the regulations. They need to be changed. The striper fishery cannot sustain the pressure that these current regulations allow (JMHO). Hopefully regulations are adjusted quickly (Fluke regs changed quick).
Common sense and decency, (culling, clubs killing bass for points, keeping shorts) is something some people just don't have. Inforcing regulations is the only way to punish them.


Just because the law allows us to keep big breeder fish, are we within our moral rights to do so? Is it the smartest thing to do for our fishing future to take our limit every time?

Yes it is withen our moral rights to keep big fish (regulations).
To take a limit every time is just plain stupid.
And I'll add that the current regulations are just plain stupid.

Monty I agree with what you said here. I will only take a limit if the person has never been fishing before, and I feel they will eat every bit of that fish. Otherwise, I have caught and releaased thousands of bass over the years. The fishing is not getting any better. It is declining, and folks need to realize that. Great thread, Dark.

[albiealert]

1) Charters taking out customers and limiting out all the time (2) fish ^^^^^^^^



To the best of my knowledge Charter and Head Boats are allowed 3 per person because there bonus tag covers everyone on the boat including the captain and mates

This seems slanted towards the recreational and charter boat owners, is it something that was done recently? I never heard of thart, I don't think we don't have it in Connecticut. Something smells fishy about that, political favoritism, maybe?

[Rip-Plugger]

I don't know if anyone has noticed but I have.
last season I noted in my log that some fish I caught had eggs oozing out,these fish were not monsters,some of them were only 11 pounds@ 30 inches,1 in particular was just 27 inches and she had eggs falling out.

It appears that bass are mauturing younger and at smaller sizes,,,perhaps to naturally compenstate for loss on the large mother fish??
maybe,all I know is what I saw last season and this one.many of the fish I got in the last 2 weeks had eggs oozing or at least the fluid that comes out with the eggs,these were not very large bass but nice sized fish from 30-42 inches.
males can be just schoolies in second grade and can spawn.
???

R-P

[surfwalker]

RP- I think that the young of year haul in 2001 was a fairly good one and that would make them around 8 years old at this time. This is the age when they reach full muturity for egg production, some earlier. I would imagine that we should see an increase in the amount 28"-30" Bass this year, or maybe I'm just wishing that. I know that my over 28" catch this year has been up, so far.

Happy Trails

[nitestrikes]

I don't know if anyone has noticed but I have.
last season I noted in my log that some fish I caught had eggs oozing out,these fish were not monsters,some of them were only 11 pounds@ 30 inches,1 in particular was just 27 inches and she had eggs falling out.

It appears that bass are mauturing younger and at smaller sizes,,,perhaps to naturally compenstate for loss on the large mother fish??
R-P

Interesting point. I have wondered about this, and also the ideal water temperatures for them to spawn. Several times I have caught fish after the spawn with eggs in them, and wondered why they didn't spawn. Maybe the temperatures were not just right, or they were on therir way, and never made it?

[finchaser]

Who's BnN? A fisherman you know who videos his weigh ins? It's not enough to weigh them on a scale, the guy has to video it as well? Does he have a camera crew with him while he is fishing?Sounds like the guy is an attention ho. These big bass are not everlasting. It's not like there is a neverending supply. I don't understand why people don't get it.

Betty and Nicks

[BassBuddah]

Here is a guy who put one back, his name is soulstream on NE. I hope it's ok to post here dark. Beautiful fish. Maybe if more guys saw pics of these big girls going back, some of them might get the idea.



Late report, but I had to get the pic. sized. Tues. evening I boated a fish I've been waiting a long time for. The big Girl took a bunker in the middle off Rye. A couple quick pics ,measurements, and it was back in the water for her.I want to encourage everyone to release fish over 40 inches as they

have just finished laying about 3 MILLION eggs EACH. I love this sport and hope the great Striper fishing we have experienced for the last 6-7 years never ends. Here are the official measurements...

46 lbs.

49 inch length

29 inch girth


She tried to dislodge the hook by scraping her face on the bottom, thus the muddy scars


Took 15 mins. to revive her, AWESOME to see her swim away!!

[storminsteve]

^^^ Beautiful fish, awesome release!

[7deadlyplugs]

That's a cow for sure, great report and release.