Defining bait in the water

[ledhead36]

Are the grass shrimp like this?

monty that's the size of the ones I'm seeing. Where did you get that pic? Was It taken in nj?

[Monty]

monty that's the size of the ones I'm seeing. Where did you get that pic? Was It taken in nj?

I forget where I found the pic, it wasn't from jersey. I think there was a lot of talk about shrimp in Raritan bay going on when I found it. It really impressed storminsteve....

[DarkSkies]

Good post, I'll add that the mullet move with the full moon, so start looking for the v-wakes around then as they leave the bays at the end of the summer.

T
I felt it might be interesting to talk about forage fish and the relation to inshore fish movements, and what people had observed in inshore predator populations through the years (striped bass, bluefish, weakfish, etc) Maybe people have different observations and opinions, and I thought it might give us something to talk about.

I've gotten feedback from enough contacts by now.... that I can try to put some of these thoughts together here.....
1. The Sept full moon is less than 2 weeks away. I know there is a big push of mullet usually during the Oct Harvest moon, but I feel this year will be different. Look for a big push of mullet along many of our East Coast surf and inlet areas during the Sept full moon.

2. This is already happening in the Island Beach area. Cuts and outsucks that have been slow during August, are now holding bluefish and other predators. While the predators are mostly small at this moment, that can change in an instant once the larger groups of predators start finding these fish (primarily mullet for now) which will be streaming down the coastline.

3. Those who know what they are doing and understand the night tides, are already catching larger fish in various inlet areas at night.

1. Generally big bait big birds (Gannets,seagulls,ospreys) Ospreys are great when you cannot see a school of bait watch where they are diving.

2. Mullet make a v-wake when swimming,

3. bunker tend to stay on top and school up and swim in large circles until the tide pushes them in or out at low tide they may be close to the shore reel the plug all the way into the beach or river..

4. Sandeels and spearing are usually pretty visible close to the shore.

5. If your using larger plugs and nothins happening try switching to a thin profile hopkins, diamond jig and see if you hook up.

6. Charteuse green teaser is a good color.

Listen to what surfstix is telling ya's here, people...he knows stuff.....



Just remember, for those fishing artificials at night..... What is the predominant forage in your area?
Those obsessed with throwing "big wood" are not doing the best thinking they can do, (unless fishing Montauk or Block at night...AND bunker are in your area regularly.)
The predominant forage I am seeing where I have been fishing is small and skinny right now.
If you are seeing the same things when you are fishing/scouting, think how best you will present to the fish that are feeding on them.
Teasers should be part of what you're carrying with you at night, unless you are fishing very rocky areas, or areas of high weed content, where they could be a problem.



** Last night, the fishing was terrible for me.
This was primarily because the conditions made it tough for presentation and dirtied up the bay waters. Constant W wind at a steady 20mph. This only minimized when I was leaving. Made fishing tough and scattered the bait, and the predators as well.

However, the different types of bait I ran into, were encouraging.....(in a few isolated areas)
Spearing, glass minnows, snapper blues, an abundance of needlefish feeding on the spearing, and for the first time, some small reddish type shrimp, different than the average normal grass shrimp one would see in the back bays.
Also, some sort of worm hatch, probably cinder worms, brought on by the new moon.
To me, this is all part of my fishing trips, and can sometimes turn a depressing night into a fascinating one.

[DarkSkies]

Some pics of bait that was in the back bays last Fall..
The first is a needlefish...in this one area there were large needlefish up to 12" on the prowl after smaller baitfish...is it any wonder that folks do so well on needles in the fall?
Here's some proof as to why.....



The 2nd pic is a poor pic of the thousands of small rainfish and spearing that were around....there was one cove area where I came upon thousands and thousands of them one night.
These were tiny juveniles....ranging from 1/2 to 2" long....

My flashlight on the water attracted and concentrated them....As I did that some bluefish and bass moved in from deeper water and started hammering them...oblivious to the fact that I was there...but cautiously out of reach on the edges of the shadow line cast by my light on the water....

It was fascinating for me to watch...so I just thought I would share it with you folks......


The 3rd pic I think.....is some spearing that JB sent me...either noticed by him or Blazin........

Some friends mentioned the surf was loaded with spearing a few weeks ago...
Within 2 nights after that the back bays were loaded with these....according to my logs they were about a month late this year...but definitely a part of the food chain in those areas......

[porgy75]

Cool pics. Question, this time of year, once the noreaster waves stop and it gets calmer again. there were some dark circles in the water in the ocean about 2 weeks ago. Would those dark circles likely be bunker or herrring? thanks

[stripercrazy]

I can't answer for all situations but I think it depends on the state. In jersey you are probably talking about bunker. In massachusetts you are probably talking about mackerel herring or sandeels.

[rockhopper]

God I hope we have the sandeels come in this year.

[albiealert]

I have seem more bunker in the rivers so far than I have ever seen. So many that its like you are thinking there will be a big fish kill like they have had in other places. so far so good. Lots of bunker.

[hookedonbass]

Very informative thread thanks for sharing. I am used to noticing small spearing this time of year. Haven't seen too many it must be like they are coming through in waves.

[seamonkey]

What awesome shares here. I was bored today and read over some of the posts very helpful. I wanted to ask your guys' opinion on something. In SJersey we have a LOT of spearing. You can usually find them near any lighted bulkhead, marina, creek mouth, etc. Last few nights have been makeing some stops on the way home from work. I noticed a lot of spearing at almost every place I stopped at. This one place, with a deep water harbor nearby was a little different. There were these larger and thicker fish mixed in with the spearing. I would say they were 6-9 inches long and about twice the thickness of the spearing. If I didn't know better I would think they were snapper blues or mullet! But that's not really possible this time of year.
I could only view them from on top and the water was so windy I could not get a clear pic of them. Was wondering what you guys thought they might be?
Could herring be in the harbors like that? I thought they only go in the rivers and larger creeks? thank you for thoughts.

[ledhead36]

Could be herring. Have seen a few in the marinas like you experienced.

[basshunter]

gannets diving on herring in Belmar yesterday awesome, wish I was there!

[7deadlyplugs]

Wow just saw this. You guys are certainly lucky to have herring and stripers still around.

[Rip-Plugger]

Wow just saw this. You guys are certainly lucky to have herring and stripers still around.

was looking at a satellite view of jersey,you guys have a lot of backwater areas,I would bet money there are fish back there.
my guess is those that know keep their mouths shut so,knowing is not widespread.

[buckethead]

Not really, it must be a lot different from where you are fishing. Our back bay areas heat up quickly in the spring, but they drop just as quickly in the fall. When I was younger I used to fish many of those places, I know them well. I don't remember catching many fish in the back after November 15th though.

[7deadlyplugs]

I heard more reports about herring and someone posted a fb video of gannets diving in New Jersey. it's kind of interesting that by us they seem to gravitate to the inlets and by you guys you have them in the open oceans.

[finchaser]

yep blue back sea herring

[dogfish]

Love those blue backs. Great for pickling, and they stay around a lot longer than bunker.

[Rip-Plugger]

Not really, it must be a lot different from where you are fishing. Our back bay areas heat up quickly in the spring, but they drop just as quickly in the fall. When I was younger I used to fish many of those places, I know them well. I don't remember catching many fish in the back after November 15th though.

that's is indeed odd.
having backwater with tidal flows are what keeps fish around in my parts.
as long as the water temp is above 42f,they will bite with 46 being good for using plastic plugs cranked slow the last 2 hrs of the flood in some areas and the same near the end of the ebb.
so,the small fish stay in the ocean in your parts?

[Rip-Plugger]

yep blue back sea herring

those are the ones you can catch on plain gold hooks?