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Thread: How hard are you willing to work, to learn....

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    Default How hard are you willing to work, to learn....

    about surf fishing?

    What does "Paying your dues, putting your time in" mean to you?

    How much effort will you put into it?

    How much is too much?

    How many times are you willing to get blanked to learn some hard but valuable lessons?

    How far are you willing to walk in one night?

    How many times will you move to find the fish if the time and tide is right and they just ain't there?

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    Default Inspiration for this thread

    Dunkin donuts!

    How could that be an inspiration for a thread on surf fishin, Dark, you might ask?

    I'm a student of human behavior. I like to watch people and learn from them, or what they do or don't do. After doing it for awhile, you become accustomed to meeting different categories of people, and it's kinda fun to see if your predictions will turn out right. It's like a chess game.




    Here's the theory I challenged myself with today:

    I was comin home from fishin, and passed a Dunkin donuts and a Wawa within 500 feet of each other. The Dunkin donuts had a line of cars waiting at the drive in, extending out onto the highway.

    Meanwhile, both the Dunkin donuts and Wawa were kind of empty inside. What did that tell me?

    I thought about it for a moment.

    Could it be that people prefer Dunkin donuts coffee to Wawa's?
    Maybe.
    But these people were in a hurry to get to work. If so, why wouldn't the people get out of their cars, run into DD, get their coffee in 2 mins, and run out again and get on the road?

    I counted 8 cars in the drivein line as I passed by. Assuming a minimum turnaround time of at least 1 1/2 minutes, no matter how fast the workers were (maybe more), you would be waiting at least 12 minutes in that line.

    Yet you could have ran into and out of DD, and got back in your car in less than 3 minutes?

    What is the hypothesis here?

    That a lot of people are lazy aZZes who want everything handed to them.

    They want convenience. They want to be served. They don't want to work too hard for a small task, just like a big fat cow bass won't work too hard for a meal.

    Of course, this is just a hypothesis and only my opinion. Opinions are like aZZholes, everyone has one right?

    I thought it might be fun to challenge some people, and see how far they would go to catch a big bass, or the bass of their dreams, from the surf.

    Let's hear some of your answers and opinions.
    I'm curious how hungry some people really are.
    Maybe I'll be surprised, maybe not.

    I tell ya one thing, it could be an interesting thread for the cold months.

  3. #3
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    Default The hardcore guys who live for fishin

    "There are quite a few guys who have pulled mid 20's fish and larger out of the NJ surf this fall that live by a code of secrecy. They learned surf fishin a trick or 2 at a time, mostly by trial and error, and put in years, and not months or weeks, to get the skills they have today to pull large when everyone else is catching schoolies. Some actually hate the internet and what it has done to fishing and the learning curve. I have to respect that.

    So if he's not a guy who would share his hard earned technique with the world, I have to respect that too.

    I have alliances with a lot of groups who would be very happy if all internet fishing sites blew up simultaneously. A lot of these people trust me, and I do whatever I can to maintain that trust. "

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    ^^ Here in a previous post I was referring to a select group of guys for whom catching fish is the only goal. They ain't out to socialize or talk sports, current events, or politics. They live for fishin and want to squeeze every opportunity out of the season. Sometimes they catch large, sometimes large numbers of smaller fish, and sometimes even they get blanked.

    But they don't let it get to them. They are persistent, and they persevere. They know if fish aren't feeding one day, they'll be slaying em the next. They'll be careful not to miss a day because that will undoubtedly be the day when their friends crushed them.

    For some, it's an addiction. It's not one you can get arrested for, unless you crash your car or truck from lack of sleep.

    They know when it will be good because they develop a feel for a good or bad bite. They're not surprised when the fish turn on for a mad dog bite, because they recorded past bites like this in their logs.

    They study their logs regularly, as much as a student studies for finals at school, looking for trends and patterns. Their conversations with their friends,or closest ones, center around fishing, and what subtle things worked for them the night before, and possibly why they worked.

    They are dedicated.
    They paid their dues.
    They have put in their time, countless nights with only a few hours of sleep to put themselves out at times when the fish are there.
    And they catch.
    No need to brag on the internet about it.

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    Default One man's perspective

    "A true bass fisherman it depends on time of year,fall is usually a first light thing where summer is a night thing.

    The rest of the year you adapt to their schedule,which is sometimes predicated on weather.

    In plain English to be successful you fish on their feeding schedule day or night.. Back in the day we fished at night to keep things a secret, when fluke season ended the day crew packed it in and we had the fall to our selves."



    How many years did it take this guy above to learn the subtle differences?
    About 50.

    Maybe it only took him 5 or 10, and the rest of the years all he learned was how to be Grouchy!
    But you can see from reading a post like this that the guy who wrote it put in his time to learn, without a doubt.

    And some people want to learn it, or think they will learn it, all in a year, or 6 months.

    I don't get that.

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    Default Before the internet and cell phones

    I didn't fish the surf back at that time, or I did, but only to throw some clams from a pole when I was a kid and went to my Uncle's house. We were happy to catch just one small bass on the clam pole. We really didn't know that there were 40 and 50lb bass that came to visit in the surf at certain times.

    Back 20 or 30 years ago, if you wanted to catch a bass, you had to go out and learn how, through trial and error. If you had a friend who fished, it would be easier.

    People didn't share info freely. If you went out and fished a few nights a week, guys might START to acknowledge your presence after they saw you a few dozen times out there.

    At that point, you might get a tip or 2 from the sharpies, if they saw you were eager, and willing to put in long hours. It wasn't a requirement that they help you, though. You had to earn their respect.

    I don't mean to color or glamorize how things were. It is what it is. IMO we have it a lot easier today with all the tips and helpful articles on the internet. Many books have been written about surf fishing, and reading the water (at the top of the list of things to learn).

    Guys who are just starting out surf fishin now are extremely lucky to have all these resources at their disposal. Yet some people still want to be spoon fed. They don't want to work too hard, yet they want the rewards.

    Why is that?
    Don't people realize how lucky we are to have all this communication and reading material at our disposal?

    Maybe not....

  7. #7
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    Default good thread!

    You're rignt, too many want everything handed to them.The latest generation of kids are so spoiled and self-centered they think their parents should follow them around and hold the toilet paper whenever it's time to wipe!
    I learned the hard way, first getting skunked in the day, and catching small bluefish. I realized I would catch bigger fish, and more bass at night. I also learned to recognize what was good about an area by looking at all the structure at extreme low tides. When you do that you see that only 25% of an area will really hold fish as the water moves in and out. If you can do that consistently you will catch fish regularly. That does take some extra time, and unfortunately a lot of folks don't want to put that time in.

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    I think for me it was a gradual learning process.
    It is easy to catch small bass. You can always toss out a rod with a clam on it. This will keep you from getting skunked on a lot of trips, and guys may use this as a crutch. I know I did.
    Then you see that guys are getting bigger bass by matching the hatch with artificials. When there are big bunker, they will throw a pencil popper which mimics the splashing behavior.
    When the bait is peanut bunker or mullert you learn that you can throw a swimmer that has that profile. If you figure it out right, you start getting larger fish.
    There is nothing like the thrill of catching a 30lb bass in the middle of the night, on a plug that so closely resembles what they are eating that they inhale it and almost pull the rod out of your hands.
    As I said, it took me a while to get to that stage, and I used bait as a security blanket. I still do when it's cold, or there is a certain condition to the water that makes throwing that bait worthwhile
    ie. eels in cold water.
    I was helped along the way by the old salts or sharpies you mentioned. They saw me trying, and threw out a tidbit of advice at a time. I did struggle for awhile to get bigger fish.
    I learned that you need to pay attention to tide stage, read the water, and mark that structure.
    I learned that if a guy fishes an area and thinks it's dead, it's possible he could be fishing the wrong time.
    All that comes together, but as you said, you need to put in your time to see it for yourself. Good thread, dark.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jigfreak View Post
    I also learned to recognize what was good about an area by looking at all the structure at extreme low tides. When you do that you see that only 25% of an area will really hold fish as the water moves in and out. If you can do that consistently you will catch fish regularly. That does take some extra time, and unfortunately a lot of folks don't want to put that time in.
    Right on. It took me about 2 years to learn how to read the water at all stages of the tide. Put your time in for sure, or don't complain when you don't catch.

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    Paying your dues is putting your time in thats the bottom line.This is how to learn the game, fish day and night get used to the differences if you are serious especially at night it is a whole different world at night you need to know what your lures are doing by feel,during the day take the time to walk the areas you fish to find structure take a pole w/you you never know practice casting different lures and try and perfect them.Learn to read the beach because it changes all the time you won't walk too many days in a row with the structure not changing you need to adapt to what the beach is doing because thats what the fish need to do to eat.How much effort is related to how serious you want it just like anything else in life the more effort put in the better you should get at it.How much is too much that didn't exist when I started surf fishing probably cost me my first marriage amongst other things I fished every chance I could and heres a tip for you newbies weather you want to hear it or not you can learn more from an old timer in 10 minutes then you can fishing by yourself for a month the key is to listen.Just a quick example there use to be a guy Leo probably in his 80's sat in his chair and watched and waited for the fish to come into reach for him if it didn't happen oh well but one day I knew the fish were there but just out of reach as I was talking to Leo he said go get the fish I said I can't reach them his reply was take those damn treble hooks off the popper and you will reach them to make a long story short he was right on the money the drag from one treble hook was stopping that little bit of distance I needed. Experience is the best teacher.Moving around I will not stay in one spot regardless of tide if the fish are not there I will walk and cast along the beach until I find them fishing structure along the way you can feel the humps under your feet as you walk(points) or they just plain aren't there.Getting skunked thats part of the game get used to it.Sorry so long but if it bores you, your a surfcaster & you already know this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by surfstix1963 View Post
    Paying your dues is putting your time in thats the bottom line.
    This is how to learn the game, fish day and night get used to the differences if you are serious especially at night it is a whole different world at night you need to know what your lures are doing by feel, during the day take the time to walk the areas you fish to find structure take a pole w/you you never know practice casting different lures and try and perfect them.
    Learn to read the beach because it changes all the time you won't walk too many days in a row with the structure not changing you need to adapt to what the beach is doing because thats what the fish need to do to eat.
    How much effort is related to how serious you want it just like anything else in life the more effort put in the better you should get at it.How much is too much that didn't exist when I started surf fishing probably cost me my first marriage amongst other things I fished every chance I could and heres a tip for you newbies weather you want to hear it or not you can learn more from an old timer in 10 minutes then you can fishing by yourself for a month the key is to listen.
    Just a quick example there use to be a guy Leo probably in his 80's sat in his chair and watched and waited for the fish to come into reach for him if it didn't happen oh well but one day I knew the fish were there but just out of reach as I was talking to Leo he said go get the fish I said I can't reach them his reply was take those damn treble hooks off the popper and you will reach them to make a long story short he was right on the money the drag from one treble hook was stopping that little bit of distance I needed.
    Experience is the best teacher. Moving around I will not stay in one spot regardless of tide if the fish are not there I will walk and cast along the beach until I find them fishing structure along the way you can feel the humps under your feet as you walk(points) or they just plain aren't there.
    Getting skunked thats part of the game get used to it. Sorry so long but if it bores you, your a surfcaster & you already know this.


    I don't think you need to apologize for the length of that post, you related a lifetime of experience in there.

    You made a lot of the key points that translate from someone catching fish once in a whille to bringing consistency to your catches.

    Even the best have their off days. Sometimes the fish just aren't there in any numbers, or a list of variables combines to make it difficult to present. However, they don't give up, and learn from it. Any subtle difference, no matter how small, can make your next trip into a better one if you are willing to adapt and learn from it.



    Thanks for the very well-worded response.

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    Surfstix it seems like you been fishing a long time, thanks for sharing.

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    For me I do not care how much time or attention I have to give to the sport. I am always willing to learn and watch the guys who have been fishing for years. Any little trick is worth the time to learn about it.

    In return I never mind helping out the new guys.

    One important thing I do is take the time to make a log. I have always found it helpful for the future predictions.

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    watching tides... nope I got Bob
    log books..... Bob
    weather .... Bob
    winds .... Bob again
    water clarity & Temp... once again Bob
    how's the bite.... Bob
    where's the bite... Bob
    what are they biting on... Bob
    So how much work do I put in? hold on I gotta call Bob
    I'll get back to you

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    Quote Originally Posted by killie View Post
    watching tides... nope I got Bob
    log books..... Bob
    weather .... Bob
    winds .... Bob again
    water clarity & Temp... once again Bob
    how's the bite.... Bob
    where's the bite... Bob
    what are they biting on... Bob
    So how much work do I put in? hold on I gotta call Bob
    I'll get back to you



    I don't really wish for people to have a bad day, but for you, I'm getting on my knees tonight and praying a special prayer that you're fortunate enough to be reincarnated as the guy below.

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    Quote Originally Posted by killie View Post
    watching tides... nope I got Bob
    log books..... Bob
    weather .... Bob
    winds .... Bob again
    water clarity & Temp... once again Bob
    how's the bite.... Bob
    where's the bite... Bob
    what are they biting on... Bob
    So how much work do I put in? hold on I gotta call Bob
    I'll get back to you

    No problem anytime my friendI'll be out lookin if I find them I'll call ya. If not I'll be up to see ya.

    Pay attention to what history has taught us or be prepared to relive it again

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    I started fishing with my grandfather when I was 3 on his boat for blowfish then fluke I cannot tell you how many times I got yelled at by him but he was just trying to learn a stubborn kid I realized that when I was older but all of that yelling stuck in my head and he always told me you need patience to catch fish and damn it that is the #1 rule.I learnrd alot from him tying the boat up properly, baiting the hooks a certain way,how to feel the different weight of a fluke on the end of your line compared to the weight of the sinker and to drop back if you missed it.He taught me so much I cannot list it here when I was about 8 my cousin started taking me offshore that was interesting but although I did that later on in life for awhile it just wasn't my cup of tea.When I started surfcasting, however frustrating it got I learned something everytime I went by listening, watching, reading and alot of hard work I made it to where I am able to catch most of the time and if I don't it doesn't bother me anymore theres just something about being out there I really realize this now because I cannot fish right now because of injuries and I'll tell ya it sucks not being out there it is just part of my life that I enjoy and it is a disease for some that has no cure its a good addiction I am not the best surf guy far from it but I enjoy what I do & try to help others if they want it.Again a little long but I have alot of time on my hands and hope to be back in the game some day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by killie View Post
    watching tides... nope I got Bob
    log books..... Bob
    weather .... Bob
    winds .... Bob again
    water clarity & Temp... once again Bob
    how's the bite.... Bob
    where's the bite... Bob
    what are they biting on... Bob
    So how much work do I put in? hold on I gotta call Bob
    I'll get back to you
    What happens when you are at home and run out of toilet paper...gotta call Bob?

    Quote Originally Posted by surfstix1963 View Post
    I started fishing with my grandfather when I was 3 on his boat for blowfish then fluke I cannot tell you how many times I got yelled at by him but he was just trying to learn a stubborn kid I realized that when I was older but all of that yelling stuck in my head and he always told me you need patience to catch fish and damn it that is the #1 rule.I learnrd alot from him tying the boat up properly, baiting the hooks a certain way,how to feel the different weight of a fluke on the end of your line compared to the weight of the sinker and to drop back if you missed it.He taught me so much I cannot list it here when I was about 8 my cousin started taking me offshore that was interesting but although I did that later on in life for awhile it just wasn't my cup of tea.When I started surfcasting, however frustrating it got I learned something everytime I went by listening, watching, reading and alot of hard work I made it to where I am able to catch most of the time and if I don't it doesn't bother me anymore theres just something about being out there I really realize this now because I cannot fish right now because of injuries and I'll tell ya it sucks not being out there it is just part of my life that I enjoy and it is a disease for some that has no cure its a good addiction I am not the best surf guy far from it but I enjoy what I do & try to help others if they want it.Again a little long but I have alot of time on my hands and hope to be back in the game some day.
    Good point Nothing in life that's worthwhile is free, we have to work for it, either with physical work of by earning the trust and respect of others. The times spent with your grandfather, you will always have in your memory on a rainy day. Great thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stripercrazy View Post
    What happens when you are at home and run out of toilet paper...gotta call Bob?
    nope, I call my wife

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    Is there anything in life you actually strive for?

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