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Thread: How hard are you willing to work, to learn....

  1. #41
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    Default Re: How hard are you willing to work, to learn....

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkSkies View Post
    I looked at those pics again, Monty, just wanted to thank you for sharing them with us, those sunrises are awesome...

    I wanted to touch on that a bit....
    Even though I'm not a "sunrise" type of guy (Monty has the monopoly when it comes to sunrise pics...) .....

    There is a world of beauty out there at night...
    Last night the sky was so clear I could see all the constellations...

    A week or so ago, there was an awesome meteor shower...
    With less people fishing, I have seen some incredible showings of wildlife......

    The saddest was watching a mother deer hang out by the side of the road, about 2 months ago...her fawn had been hit by a car...it must have just happened....and she was kind of hanging out, like a vigil or something...I think she knew it was dead but didn't want to leave it.....

    I spooked her,,,she ran into the bushes while I got out and brought her dead offspring to the side of the road so more cars wouldn't hit it....and she watched me from a distance as I did this....

    I know this is part of life, things happen, we all move on....
    But my point here, is that there is a whole world of things you see as night fisherman, that many folks never get to see,,,,

    I may get bored by catching schoolies, but am never bored marveling at the beauty of God and his creations, all around us....and this is a theater I get to see each night.
    At times I feel I am in the audience, other times on the very stage of all that is happening.....

    I know many guys just focus on the fish caught...
    I do as well...usually not happy unless I can at least scare up some action or cause some kind of fish to take a swipe at what I'm throwing....

    But the point here....
    Is that the world out there,,,,,at night.....is more intense, for me, than much of the world in the daytime.,...and I enjoy every second of it....

    I'm also amazed at fishermen who are not willing to fight for that...for me, I would fight for eternity to preserve those kinds of experiences I have out there....and the places I am able to fish....and the fish that I love to fish for......


    Food for thought......

  2. #42
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    Default Re: How hard are you willing to work, to learn....

    Lack of Participation in Fishing......


    A Veteran Fisherman friend sent me this, as we were both commenting on the current lack of participation in fishing many surf and bay areas at night...... I think it shows a lot of wisdom and insight....








    "".....about the lack of fisherman at night during the summer. To me, I've always noticed that, but it's worse now. I really think some of the so called surfsters have been spoiled by the spring/fall run. Anyone can catch Bass in blitz conditions, and that's all they look for. I have always plugged the whole year. Some just don't want to work and not be rewarded. To pull any Bass at night during the summer, to me, out front, is my reward, any size, doesn't matter.



    I have spent many a summer night, walking the beaches, wondering why no one else is around. Was I a fool, no, I was doing what I enjoy and learning more and more on those walks. The experimenting, the thought process, and the sometimes hook up was too pleasurable to pass up.

    I see the newer faces want instant reward, don't want to work for it or learn. It's just not about throwing some junk out into the water and hoping to catch, it's about putting your head into the head of a Bass. Learning the type water, the bait, the temps of the water, currents and so on. I find this not to be work, but a satisfaction to an end result."

  3. #43
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    Default Re: How hard are you willing to work, to learn....

    ^^^^ Spot on. Work hard or stay home, is what I say.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: How hard are you willing to work, to learn....

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkSkies View Post
    Lack of Participation in Fishing......


    A Veteran Fisherman friend sent me this, as we were both commenting on the current lack of participation in fishing many surf and bay areas at night...... I think it shows a lot of wisdom and insight....

    I see the newer faces want instant reward, don't want to work for it or learn. It's just not about throwing some junk out into the water and hoping to catch, it's about putting your head into the head of a Bass. Learning the type water, the bait, the temps of the water, currents and so on. I find this not to be work, but a satisfaction to an end result."

    There is still hope yet for the younger generation, DS. This was posted on another site. By Capt Barb of the One More Drift....I thought it was a fantastic post. Hope its ok to post it here -






    "For the last month or two I have not been able to take my family, friends and clients fishing due to a new job I got. Of course I feel bad about it, but I know in time when things settle down I will be able to fish once again.

    With this, my son Tom has been for the first time in his life this past month been fishing on his own. Obviously not on my boat, but from the surf on the north shore. Tom has been spoiled for the past ten years fishing because he never really had to hunt for the fish, I always had him fishing in areas that were my locations that I learned on my own that produced fish. Not only did I always get him on the fish, but I also set up his rigs, bait, told him what tide to fish what spot, ect ect.....

    So Tom's last two fishing trips (surf) were without me in a territory he has never fished before. I guided him only with what tide he should fish it, what lures to use and the structure he should look for to be successful.

    Two trips in and he has not caught a blessed thing. But what has happened here is, Tom is not upset about not catching fish, he for the first time in his life is actually understanding fishing. I am getting all choked up as I type this. This is what I have been wanting him to learn for years, but I guess he never could because I was always with him putting him on the fish because of my knowledge of fishing for so long.

    So it is all starting to come together, he finally gets it. When he got home from his trip today he was not upset about not catching anything, he was excited to learn so many new things on his own. He learned what to look for, see the bait, match the hatch, watch the birds working, learn how to cast upstream in the current, watch the other guys fish and work there plugs effortlessly, ect ect.....

    Ahhhh, I feel so happy right now, to know my son finally understands what fishing is all about. It's not about bringing home a fish (not that he ever did that, he is a catch and release only), but he understands that fishing is learning the pattern and getting all the elements to come together at that one time to catch a fish. And if you don't catch any fish, you are still a winner because you tried. You experimented on your own. You learned what you will do your next trip out that will be different to make you get that much closer to landing a fish on your own. "

    OMD.

  5. #45
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    Pete, it's good to read something like what you saw posted.
    Fishermen are slowly declining in numbers as young kids today are more interested in video games and texting. Many in the younger generation don't want to take the time to learn something like fishing. It can be hard doing something when there is no guarantee of succeess.

    I still feel that persistence, and learning patterns, is something that can benefit us in all areas of life.
    Something I posted the other day:

    Back when I knew a lot less...it was relatively easy to catch a handful of bass every night....in every month except for Jan and Feb...

    We're all entitled to fish for and target whatever we want....however in the last 10 years, as bass stocks have declined... I have noticed an elitist movement among certain surfcasters that have turned their nose up at catching any fish that wasn't a bass....I had to ask myself "why?".......

    If there are less fish, and opportunities are scattered....why would some lose sight of how fun it is to have a bend in the rod?

    I remember a few years ago...when I was more generous in giving out info and helping others....I was fishing an area where the fishing was extremely spotty....
    Ran into another surfcaster....a clear beginner....still learning how to cast....yet he was outfitted with all the latest gear touted on the internet....about $3 k worth of gear.....you name it...this guy was carrying it......He expressed his frustration that with all the money he spent, he still hadn't caught a bass in over 2 weeks.....

    I felt sorry for him...I was leaving to go to another area where there were blues at dusk and into the night hitting regularly...pure bluefish bite......but the fish were in the 10-15# class.....

    When I offered to let him follow me in his SUV...he said...
    "OH- You're JUST catching bluefish over there????
    OK - no thanks I would rather not go."










    That was a crystallizing moment for me....
    Here we had a time in the season when the bass fishing was pretty sporadic....the bigger bass and action wouldn't be happening for weeks to come....
    I was offering this newbie a chance to come and catch some really nice, angry, drag screaming blues......and it wasn't good enough for him....


    I'm not trying to single out anyone here...but realized at that moment that the internet...and internet posturing....had taken some of the fun out of fishing....

    I became very selective about who I offered to help in the future.......
    It's taken a lot of work for me to learn the prime time in each tide, for each location, that the fish might be feeding...it was a lot of sweat and failing, to get to that point......

    If I see someone who seems tuned in, and willing to work, that instantly gives me hope for the new generation of fishermen coming up.....but without that work ethic.....I'm just not willing to help people......like I used to......

    I think the sweetest rewards come from that hard work...at least that's been my experience...
    Would love to hear about the experiences of others.....

  6. #46
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    You answered a 3 year old post

    Pay attention to what history has taught us or be prepared to relive it again

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkSkies View Post
    Something I posted the other day:


    ....................
    ....................
    ....................
    ....................
    ....................
    ........I think the sweetest rewards come from that hard work...at least that's been my experience...
    Would love to hear about the experiences of others.....




    Quote Originally Posted by finchaser View Post
    You answered a 3 year old post
    I guess I screwed up not highlighting that part of the post, in multi bolded black, like I usually do, in my OCD world...

    I already posted it somewhere else 2 days ago, and decided to share that story here as well.....
    If I recall correctly, the original reason for starting this thread was a conversation with you and the other old timers about how people don't want to work that hard anymore to catch fish.
    Or get involved to help their fellow fishermen...the thread below was a direct result of these conversations, O Grouchy One...
    http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...nvolved-Why-ME

    Hope that clears things up ya grouchy basstid.

  8. #48
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    Slow Pick -
    Was going to add a few things to this when I get a chance.....there have been some occasions when a few of us are out there....slow pick.....but the fish are there.....and the other anglers walk down to the beach....and because there are not a lot of bent rods to be seen....they leave.....
    I'll try to come back to this when I get a chance...if anyone has anything to share in the meantime....feel free.....



    "Many men go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after." -Henry David Thoreau.

  9. #49
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    Thought it was time to bump this thread because it seeme the dynamic has changed for a lot of folks out there. In the past, the way I learned was by failing. Catching fish on bait was very easy, had been doing it since I was 12. Making the transition to artificials was the hard part. It took a long time for me to get any measure of success.

    That's probably because I didn't understand the "Why?" and focused too much on the "where". In modern times, I can see why anglers are so concerned about "Where?" There are so many places that do not hold fish (though with high concentrations of bait, they should.)

    So it seems that fishing has evolved, for a certain segment, to where they try to follow reports of others, and then chase them. With social media, that's pretty easy to do. Real time reporting often leaves many clues to fish being caught in an area. Those who chase, often come up empty handed. HOW is it possible, if they are going to "hot" areas, or running to, at 5pm, to an area where fish were blitzing at 6am, that so many are disappointed?



    "Many men go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after." -Henry David Thoreau.

  10. #50
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    There are several possibilities and observations. For the sake of this discussion I'll try to simplify things a bit. If I gloss over or omit something, I apologize in advance. Please feel free to add your opinion, or corrections. And thanks, as always, for your interest in sharing. You are a great group, and all opinions are valued here.

    1. Lack of fish - I could go on and on about this, but it's apparent to anyone who has fished for more than a few decades. We are approaching times where striped bass numbers *(overall) are lower than they have been. The saving grace COULD be the 2011 and 2015 year classes. But the robustness of that class as a saving grace will take several years to come to fruition as these fish grow to legal size.

    2. Extreme gaps in numbers in certain year classes.

    3. Beach replenishment and loss of fishing access from land.

    4. (Slight) shift to offshore migrational patterns. Notice the emphasis on "slight" here. I think it's important to note the shift. Also important to note that there has been a certain % of bass that always migrated offshore. This is most notable in areas like Cape May and others where there is not much beach structure to hold migrational baitfish and forage. However, it's also important to note when bass numbers were healthier, the offshore, and the inshore populations, were BOTH robust and thriving. Recent years have seen robustness in the offshore populations, but a notable shrinking in the inshore and Back Bay Area numbers.

    5. This shrinking of the biomass (all fully documented here and searchable in other threads) has coincided with the beach replenishment, so that beach replenishment usually takes the blame. I ask all serious fishermen, to consider IF the real possibility is the shrinking biomass overall, as has been documented here and on other sites.

    6. A changing in attitudes of many modern fishermen. I've noticed that a lot of modern fishermen begin to rely more and more on the Internet. Fewer talk about finding fish from logs or past patterns. My fishing logs have been invaluable to me. They helped me make the transition from the "Where" to the "Why" in figuring out feeding and migrational patterns.
    Many say "Well fish swim, that's why you can't follow reports". Maybe....but if you understand patterns and what they imply, you may be able to find fish for a few nights, or weeks, in the same area.















    I mentioned the above biomass observations as a prelude to my point here, because at times they usually spark arguments by those who don't want to do the research, or have a vested interest in claiming the striped bass population is healthier than ever.

    The issue I wanted to raise and perhaps continue in discussion, is-
    "Has fishing changed for so many of us, that some don't care about the "Why" any more, that the prime concern is the "Where?"

    If so, don't we lose something in the process, if we are not interested in learning patterns, IF they develop, and why knowing that pattern can benefit our catching, and overall fishing experiences?

    Thanks for your thoughts and comments, folks...they are appreciated.....



    "Many men go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after." -Henry David Thoreau.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkskies
    6. A changing in attitudes of many modern fishermen. I've noticed that a lot of modern fishermen begin to rely more and more on the Internet. Fewer talk about finding fish from logs or past patterns. My fishing logs have been invaluable to me. They helped me make the transition from the "Where" to the "Why" in figuring out feeding and migrational patterns.
    Many say "Well fish swim, that's why you can't follow reports". Maybe....but if you understand patterns and what they imply, you may be able to find fish for a few nights, or weeks, in the

    The issue I wanted to raise and perhaps continue in discussion, is-
    "Has fishing changed for so many of us, that some don't care about the "Why" any more, that the prime concern is the "Where?"

    If so, don't we lose something in the process, if we are not interested in learning patterns, IF they develop, and why knowing that pattern can benefit our catching, and overall fishing experiences?

    Thanks for your thoughts and comments, folks...they are appreciated.....
    Ds I think you're fighting a losing battle trying to encourage guys to keep logs.This is something I read the other day. An excuse as to why a guy doesn't have time to write fishing logs. SMH at the cluelessness.

    ".... i dont have time to write ( log books ) im not retired lol idk if u r but im not and i have been catching em just not the last week and i really havent seen any caught either except monday i happened to walk into a blitz"

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    ^^^^ It's the voice of the new generation, and I ain't talking Pepsi. a whole bunch of new fishermen on the scene want all the glory, but don't want to put hours or sweat into the game.

  13. #53
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    Yeah I would have to agree. FB and internet report chasing has gotten so bad that guys will not get out of their seats unless they hear heavy action. What ashame. it's no longer surf casting for some it's surf chasing.

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    I saw a lot of guys leaving the beach yesterday when the bite slowed down during slack tide. The fish were picky, yes. Even the blues. But to have an activity level, during slack, is almost unheard of, unless there is a lot of bait and fish in the area.

    A few old timers and I continued to catch fish, a slow pick, unhooking and releasing them quickly when w brought them in so as not to telegraph that we were catching.

    Your success as a fisherman, long-term....depends on your ability to recognize certain bait patterns and conditions,. Adapt when necessary, hunt for the best conditions where fish are most likely to be, and exploit those conditions to your favor when you sense a good bite might develop.

    This took years for me to learn...through many depressing times when I failed......failure is a good thing, IMO, because it forces you to think critically about what you are doing.....

    It amazes me that a lot of modern fishermen, are content to skip this process, by chasing internet reports...or asking for directions to the best bite on social media.
    By taking these shortcuts, you can't achieve your full potential as a fisherman, because you won't be able to recognize when you should stay in one area, because a bite is about to develop...
    or leave and go to another area, because the bite is truly over....
    because conditions have changed...
    Just my thoughts....



    "Many men go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after." -Henry David Thoreau.

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    The title of this thread has become even more compelling to me...after seeing the rise in laziness and report chasing on Social Media......For a long time I stopped helping people I met on my trips....realizing it could come back and ruin the fishing and experiences that mean so much to me........

    Last year I had a change of heart....and began helping people again......but only in certain situations, when it seemed to me...they had that "spark".....that thirst for knowledge......It was something that I found absent from a majority of social media....folks more concerned with the "where" than the "why"......

    It was refreshing to see it resurface again in some of the many interactions I had out there with New anglers who wanted to learn.......enough to give me renewed interest in helping........as I hope to help a select few hard workers this year......time permitting....

    In fact, some of the richest experiences I had last year......were helping others....If a gruff, crabby, grouchy old fart......helped some of ya's to catch a fish or two last year...when you were struggling....that might have been me.
    I'll try to share some of those stories when I get a chance.......



    "Many men go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after." -Henry David Thoreau.

  16. #56
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    Respectfully speaking, people don't want to work hard to find fish today. They don't even want to work hard at their jobs, Dark. They spend all day on their cell phones texting.

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