How hard are you willing to work, to learn....

[DarkSkies]

about surf fishing?

What does "Paying your dues, putting your time in" mean to you?

How much effort will you put into it?

How much is too much?

How many times are you willing to get blanked to learn some hard but valuable lessons?

How far are you willing to walk in one night?

How many times will you move to find the fish if the time and tide is right and they just ain't there?

[DarkSkies]

Dunkin donuts!

How could that be an inspiration for a thread on surf fishin, Dark, you might ask?

I'm a student of human behavior. I like to watch people and learn from them, or what they do or don't do. After doing it for awhile, you become accustomed to meeting different categories of people, and it's kinda fun to see if your predictions will turn out right. It's like a chess game.




Here's the theory I challenged myself with today:

I was comin home from fishin, and passed a Dunkin donuts and a Wawa within 500 feet of each other. The Dunkin donuts had a line of cars waiting at the drive in, extending out onto the highway.

Meanwhile, both the Dunkin donuts and Wawa were kind of empty inside. What did that tell me?

I thought about it for a moment.

Could it be that people prefer Dunkin donuts coffee to Wawa's?
Maybe.
But these people were in a hurry to get to work. If so, why wouldn't the people get out of their cars, run into DD, get their coffee in 2 mins, and run out again and get on the road?

I counted 8 cars in the drivein line as I passed by. Assuming a minimum turnaround time of at least 1 1/2 minutes, no matter how fast the workers were (maybe more), you would be waiting at least 12 minutes in that line.

Yet you could have ran into and out of DD, and got back in your car in less than 3 minutes?

What is the hypothesis here?

That a lot of people are lazy aZZes who want everything handed to them.

They want convenience. They want to be served. They don't want to work too hard for a small task, just like a big fat cow bass won't work too hard for a meal.

Of course, this is just a hypothesis and only my opinion. Opinions are like aZZholes, everyone has one right?

I thought it might be fun to challenge some people, and see how far they would go to catch a big bass, or the bass of their dreams, from the surf.

Let's hear some of your answers and opinions.
I'm curious how hungry some people really are.
Maybe I'll be surprised, maybe not.

I tell ya one thing, it could be an interesting thread for the cold months.

[DarkSkies]

"There are quite a few guys who have pulled mid 20's fish and larger out of the NJ surf this fall that live by a code of secrecy. They learned surf fishin a trick or 2 at a time, mostly by trial and error, and put in years, and not months or weeks, to get the skills they have today to pull large when everyone else is catching schoolies. Some actually hate the internet and what it has done to fishing and the learning curve. I have to respect that.

So if he's not a guy who would share his hard earned technique with the world, I have to respect that too.

I have alliances with a lot of groups who would be very happy if all internet fishing sites blew up simultaneously. A lot of these people trust me, and I do whatever I can to maintain that trust. "

[DarkSkies]

^^ Here in a previous post I was referring to a select group of guys for whom catching fish is the only goal. They ain't out to socialize or talk sports, current events, or politics. They live for fishin and want to squeeze every opportunity out of the season. Sometimes they catch large, sometimes large numbers of smaller fish, and sometimes even they get blanked.

But they don't let it get to them. They are persistent, and they persevere. They know if fish aren't feeding one day, they'll be slaying em the next. They'll be careful not to miss a day because that will undoubtedly be the day when their friends crushed them.

For some, it's an addiction. It's not one you can get arrested for, unless you crash your car or truck from lack of sleep.

They know when it will be good because they develop a feel for a good or bad bite. They're not surprised when the fish turn on for a mad dog bite, because they recorded past bites like this in their logs.

They study their logs regularly, as much as a student studies for finals at school, looking for trends and patterns. Their conversations with their friends,or closest ones, center around fishing, and what subtle things worked for them the night before, and possibly why they worked.

They are dedicated.
They paid their dues.
They have put in their time, countless nights with only a few hours of sleep to put themselves out at times when the fish are there.
And they catch.
No need to brag on the internet about it.

[DarkSkies]

"A true bass fisherman it depends on time of year,fall is usually a first light thing where summer is a night thing.

The rest of the year you adapt to their schedule,which is sometimes predicated on weather.

In plain English to be successful you fish on their feeding schedule day or night.. Back in the day we fished at night to keep things a secret, when fluke season ended the day crew packed it in and we had the fall to our selves."



How many years did it take this guy above to learn the subtle differences?
About 50.

Maybe it only took him 5 or 10, and the rest of the years all he learned was how to be Grouchy!
But you can see from reading a post like this that the guy who wrote it put in his time to learn, without a doubt.

And some people want to learn it, or think they will learn it, all in a year, or 6 months.

I don't get that.

[DarkSkies]

I didn't fish the surf back at that time, or I did, but only to throw some clams from a pole when I was a kid and went to my Uncle's house. We were happy to catch just one small bass on the clam pole. We really didn't know that there were 40 and 50lb bass that came to visit in the surf at certain times.

Back 20 or 30 years ago, if you wanted to catch a bass, you had to go out and learn how, through trial and error. If you had a friend who fished, it would be easier.

People didn't share info freely. If you went out and fished a few nights a week, guys might START to acknowledge your presence after they saw you a few dozen times out there.

At that point, you might get a tip or 2 from the sharpies, if they saw you were eager, and willing to put in long hours. It wasn't a requirement that they help you, though. You had to earn their respect.

I don't mean to color or glamorize how things were. It is what it is. IMO we have it a lot easier today with all the tips and helpful articles on the internet. Many books have been written about surf fishing, and reading the water (at the top of the list of things to learn).

Guys who are just starting out surf fishin now are extremely lucky to have all these resources at their disposal. Yet some people still want to be spoon fed. They don't want to work too hard, yet they want the rewards.

Why is that?
Don't people realize how lucky we are to have all this communication and reading material at our disposal?

Maybe not....

[Doublerunner]

How hard are you willing to work, to learn....

Here are some answers from me. A 49 year old newbie to striper fishing with lots of life experiences
about surf fishing? I started by asking lots of questions. Man I provided a lot of entertainment for a lot of people. But I learned. From what they said and what they didn't say. Learning to read between the lines and extract the little tidbits of wisdom that come with every experience. Also reading. I have read probably every thread on every forum I have joined. I've also read about 6 books thus far. I went with a group of hardcore surfcasters to Montauk this Fall. I think I slept about a total of 14 hours in 5 days. Where I live I have to drive an hour or more each way to get to the spots. I listen. I have been fortunate to have met a great group of guys who have cut years off my learning curve but that only happens if you can listen and then apply those words of wisdom to when you are actually fishing. I scouted spots during daylight by bugging out of work a few hours early. Even working plugs during the day so I would know what they swam like in the dark of the night. I keep a change of clothes and my gear in my truck....just in case. I also met a guy who I consider the most knowledgable fisherman anywhere and I have learned a great deal from him by not only fishing with him but also talking to him as much as possible

What does "Paying your dues, putting your time in" mean to you? As much as I have listened and read, there is no substitute for experience. We are fortunate to have technology that can help us find spots on the internet such as google earth and maps.live.com
Early on I identified some spots that I did not have access to but ended up being some of my favorite spots thus far. It means doing your research and scouting your spots and then working them. It means going to your local bait and tackle and asking questions. It means fishing in Nor'easters and also when you're sweating your a$$ off. It means fishing for hours on end even when you're not catching ( but you're still learning from that). And by the way, you never stop paying your dues or putting your time in. Yes it may get easier over time but you always have to work at it

How much effort will you put into it? Pretty much whatever it takes without sacrificing my family life to the point of no return

How much is too much? . I think there is a different answer for each person. For me I will go as hard as I can, whenever I can. My favorite words are "Enjoy the Journey". If you stop enjoying what you are doing then it's time to get out

How many times are you willing to get blanked to learn some hard but valuable lessons? No one wants to get skunked but the key is to not repeat the same mistakes. Pay attention, learn, and improve. Fishing is great...catching is the icing on the cake

How far are you willing to walk in one night? . I don't give up easily. I may not be able to walk as fast as some others but I will get there and won't stop 'til I do

How many times will you move to find the fish if the time and tide is right and they just ain't there? I am very stubborn and don't give up easily. I also trust my instincts. If I am sure the time and tide ( amongst other things ) are right then I am more likely to stay where I am and try different presentations such as varying distance on casts, types of retrieves, changing plugs or just changing the weight of a bucktail, etc.

[DarkSkies]

WTG on the persistence, Monty!

Surfwalker, talked to one guy last night who had 2 short bass on artificials, he confirmed those first light comments. It seems to me there's a point to that as well. People have been catching fish in the dark on artificials, but after a lot of effort.

Some people know what it is to be persistent. Surfalker and Monty do, they won't give up, if they feel the time and tide is right, until they nail a fish.

The quote above talks about a conversation I had with a young kid last night. He's in his early 20's, if that. But he's compulsive about fishing. It was late and there weren't many people around where we were fishin.

He was talking about his friends, and the fact that if they come down and don't catch a fish in 5 mins they want to go home. He said he has no use or interest in fishin with people like that, and I kind of felt the same way.

If you go out there and fish a blitz, it's great for your ego because you can do well.

















How about when the moon is full and bright?
How about when the fish are popping on shrimp, cinder worms, or small bait?
Willl you still try to catch fish, or will you give up and go home?
Will you change all your presentations, incorporating different teasers and presentations that work different levels of the water column, until you find the one thing that fish will hit?

And...
when you find that one thing, will you be flexible enough to change that presentation as soon as some different bait comes by, or you sense that it's less effective?

Sometimes people are envious of people who catch a lot of fish. This kid and I talked about mutual spots we like to fish when no one else is around. Some of em ain't easy to get to or involve some sort of risk. Yet we know the rewards, and have reaped them.

Even so, the reward doesn't always happen, the time, tide, bait, current, and weather have to be just right. If it doesn't work at that night, instead of getting bummed, you have to suck it up and move to another place. And start working that one just as hard.

The next time you meet a guy who tells you he had a double digit night, ask yourself if you would be willing to put the time in, that he's putting in, in all kinds of weather.

It goes back to the old concept I've mentioned a few times here...

Wanting to fish
VS
Needing to fish.

[williehookem]

I always pay attention to my surroundings, look what other people are doing and change up if needed. I an one who needs to fish. My life would not be the same without it. I wonder if I am compulsive?

[nitestrikes]

How many times will you move to find the fish if the time and tide is right and they just ain't there? I am very stubborn and don't give up easily. I also trust my instincts. If I am sure the time and tide ( amongst other things ) are right then I am more likely to stay where I am and try different presentations such as varying distance on casts, types of retrieves, changing plugs or just changing the weight of a bucktail, etc.

What he said, if you are out there you might as well fish. Instincts also play a key part on when it is time to move.

[DarkSkies]

Who's marking the new holes and cuts that have come up this year?

Who's keeping a record of these to improve their fishing opportunities?

(Or, to get yourself away from the crowds when the internet hordes show up)
More on this later when I have some time to post up.

[DarkSkies]

Who's marking the new holes and cuts that have come up this year?

Who's keeping a record of these to improve their fishing opportunities?

(Or, to get yourself away from the crowds when the internet hordes show up)
More on this later when I have some time to post up.

I'm finally doing my log of the major holes and cuts for the areas I fish.
To me this is part of being a surfcaster, I feel like I'm being half-assed when I don't do it.
As mentioned, these change every year.

Recently the OFFC (Old Farts Fishing Club) was fishing in OC and did better than half the guys on that beach. An "internet hero" posted in a report online that he saw some old guys out-fish him.

I mentioned that was because they paid attention to the structure...

His response:
"There is no structure on the beach where I fish"

My response:
"Go back there at extreme low tide, moon tide, and look at what you see, mark all the holes and cuts, and then come back here and tell us there is no structure on that beach... "
















I cannot fathom a kid who has a home beach that he usually fishes, fishes that beach almost every day, and then claims there is no structure there......


When the fishing is stupid, almost everyone can catch a fish...
When it gets tougher, and you get blanked, what are you doing to learn from your mistakes....

Mark those holes, guys and gals...

[jigfreak]

When the fishing is stupid, almost everyone can catch a fish...
When it gets tougher, and you get blanked, what are you doing to learn from your mistakes....

I think you give too much credit to the average fisherman dark. Most guys, they go out, cast for an hour, and go home, never realizing why they didn't catch fish. They blame it on bad luck. When they see someone else catching, they crowd and mug the guy so he can't breathe. Maybe that guy was right in the cut, and that's why the fish are there. If they walked the beach as you said at low tide they would learn a lot. I do that every spring, summer, and fall. In the winter when I get bored I walk the beach for an hour at a time just to see which cuts were affected by the winter storms. You can't expect an average guy to do that, though, they would rather get skunked.