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Thread: Report: MA gamefish bill meeting

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  1. #1
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    8. Representative D'Amico: (Representing the Recs)

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    "I support this bill. The state of Texas had redfish declared a gamefish. Therefore, this action in Massachusetts is not unprecedented. It brought substantially more tourist dollars into the state after they did this.

    Value comparisons:
    The dollar value of striped bass to this state from recreational fishing is 48x the amount we receive from Commercial fishing. That is a significant difference, and a value we would continue to receive and possibly have increased as a result of passing this bill."



    *******************************
    Sidebar: Article mentioning the passage of the redfish gamefish bill in Texas, and the subsequent results:

    http://www.lsonews.com/20071023218/P...-red-drum.html



    President George W. Bush signs an Executive Order to protect striped bass and red drum


    Written by Mark England Tuesday, 23 October 2007


    President George W. Bush signs an Executive Order to protect the striped bass and red drum fish populations Saturday, Oct. 20, 2007, at the Chesapeake Bay Maritime Museum in St. Michaels, Md. President Bush is joined during the signing by, from left, Michael Nussman, president of American Sportfishing Association; Brad Burns, president of Stripers Forever; David Pfeifer, president of Shimano America Corp.; Walter Fondren, chairman of Coastal Conservation Association; U.S. Secretary of Commerce Carlos Gutierrez; U.S. Rep. Wayne Gilchrest of Maryland and U.S. Secretary of Interior Dirk Kempthorne. White House photo by Eric Draper












    Recreational anglers came up big Saturday when President George W. Bush signed an order banning the commercial harvesting of redfish and striped bass in federal waters.

    While both species were already protected, a spokesman for the American Sportfishing Association said the order is more than window dressing. Gordon Robertson noted federal regulations as written were subject to change.

    "With this order, they can never be changed," he said.

    Robertson added, "It will be a huge benefit to the sportsman and the resource."

    The Oct. 20th order doesn't prohibit the commercial sale of redfish and stripers produced by aquaculture. However, harvesters can't touch either species within the "Exclusive Economic Zone of the United States," or 200 miles beyond state waters.

    In a radio address, Bush said he acted to "preserve our fisheries." "These two species were once abundant in American waters, but their stocks were overfished," Bush said.

    Officials for the Coastal Conservation Association and Stripers Forever – both of which campaigned arduously for the – praised the conservation order.

    "When CCA began to work on recovering red drum 30 years ago in Texas, we never imagined an event like this would ever be possible," said Chairman Walter W. Fondren III. "We owe a debt of gratitude to the president for recognizing the high value placed on these resources by the citizens of this country."

    SF President Bradford Burns said the order represents Bush's realization that the game fish designation will lead to the best use of the two species.

    "Socioeconomic studies show that the industry this fishery represents is many more times valuable than that represented by harvesting these same fish commercially," Burns said.

    A Texas Parks and Wildlife official agreed.

    “Recreational fishing is a $2 billion industry in Texas, while commercial fishing is a $100-200 million industry," said Larry McKinney, director of the Coastal Fisheries Division. "We’ve been stressing that for years.”




    President George W. Bush is shown a fish caught by Melissa Fischer, left, by her husband, Chris Fischer, aboard a fishing boat Saturday, Oct. 20, 2007 off the coast of St. Michaels, Md., in the Chesapeake Bay, during a television interview with the Fischers, hosts of ESPN¹s Offshore Adventures. President Bush talked about his love of the outdoors and the Executive Order signed earlier in the day to protect striped bass and red drum fish species. White House photo by Eric Draper




    News of Bush's order thrilled a Texas guide who specializes in fishing for redfish.

    "It will really help us," said James Fox, who runs a guide service in Rockport. "It will stop all the commercial fishing for redfish."

    Fox called the order "absolute protection" for redfish. McKinney noted that federal waters are where redfish are most at risk.

    "That's where they reproduce and where they are always vulnerable," he said.

    Redfish were declared a game fish in Texas waters in 1981.

    "Following that, our stocks went up 100 percent," McKinney said.

    In 1987, the commercial harvest of redfish was also banned in federal waters. The impact of the ban was dramatic. The commercial harvest of redfish dropped from 14 million pounds in 1986 to 22,000 pounds in 2006. Meanwhile, the recreational catch of redfish jumped from 3.5 million in 1986 to 9.8 million in 2006.

    As far as striped bass, they're a scarce resource off the Texas coast -- given the dams found along most rivers that drain into the Gulf, although some have been caught in the Sabine Lake area in recent years.

    Commercial harvesters reacted angrily to the order.

    Bob Jones, executive director of Southeast Fisheries (a commercial fishing trade group based in Tallahassee, Fla.), noted the order came as the Gulf of Mexico Fisheries Management Council was trying to determine if the redfish stock could support a limited commercial harvest.

    Jones called Bush's order an unprecedented resource grab.

    "He gave all of the fish to the CCA," Jones told the Mobile Press-Register. "What he is doing is totally opposite from the process that has been in place with Magnuson-Stevens since 1976."

    TPW's McKinney said the order came at an opportune time as pressure was building to open up redfish and striped bass to commercial harvesting.

    "From our perspective, we hope this will keep that to a minimum," he said. "From an economic standpoint, you can't justify it. They're both far more valuable as a recreational resource than as a commercial resource."

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    They then opened the floor to any groups or individuals who wanted to speak, and had pre-registered.

    I'm getting tired of the typing. I'll use the following abbreviations:

    sb = striped bass
    cf = commercial fishing
    rf = recreational fishing
    sf = stripers forever
    mv = Martha's vineyard
    cc = Cape Cod
    ccchfa = Cape Cod commercial hook fisherman's assoc

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    Default Stripers Forever

    SF was one of the sponsors of the bill. They had a few people up at the table:

    1. Craig Coldwell:

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    "Striped bass financed the first schools in MA. They were the first fish ever to be managed by the states. SB are the most important recreational fish in terms of dollar activity.
    Fishing is the #1 past-time in the US, according to dollars spent.
    MA has a history of being a leader in conservation.
    Of our neighbors, 6 of 13 do not allow the commercial sale of sb."

    2. A marine biologist, and another person (I didn't get the names)

    3. **** Russell - author of the Striper Wars...

    Mr Russell is to the Left in this pic
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    a book chronicling the history of striper fishing in the US, the amazing abundance, the devastating decline, and the remarkable comeback story.
    " In terms of the number of breeding females, we are at the same declining levels we were at before the striped bass crash in the late 1970s which resulted in the striped bass Moratorium in 1982."




    ************************
    The presentation was extremely professional, with great charts and graphs. Maybe it was too professional.

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    The commercial fishermen, as if on cue, referred to them as a "special interest group".

    SF spoke about the decline of the striped bass fishery as noted by many respected charter captains, fishing guides, and fishermen who are outdoor writers. Some people who have a lot of credibility have been saying that the size of striped bass overall has been declining since 2004.

    They mentioned the Southwick study, the fact that YOY studies in the Chesapeake, and several respected sources in the Striper fishing world seem to agree that there has been a decline in the number of larger (female) bass in the last few years.

    They tried to give qualitative and quantitative evidence for the decline of the fishery.

    Here's a link to their site:

    Striped bass - Why a gamefish?
    http://www.stripersforever.org/Info/gamefish


    Some interesting research:
    http://www.stripersforever.org/Info/Stripers_Research/

    Ted Williams - Striped bass headed for a crash? FRR July 2009
    http://www.stripersforever.org/Info/...uly%202009.pdf


    Poaching by commercial fishermen in MA:
    http://www.stripersforever.org/Info/...44.0/Seize.pdf


    Al Ristori talks about the affect of gamefish status in NJ:
    http://www.stripersforever.org/Info/...20rebuttal.pdf

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    All in favor of DS quitting his daytime job and becoming a RF lobbyist

    Pay attention to what history has taught us or be prepared to relive it again

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    What does RF stand for ya grouchy bassturd?

    I'm tired of all this typing. I know progress wasn't made yesterday. I should just give it up already, right?

    As for the SF proposal, it's not a good idea to mount a program in a recession that will allegedly take jobs away from people. At least awareness was raised.

    All the crabbing you do every day when ya talk to me has turned me into grouchy old bassturd II.

    I try to be objective. However, I know you and many other people in the shadows who don't want to get involved any more. Every day I get to hear real stories about a declining fishery.

    If you only fish in one state, and don't pay attention to what happens N or S of you, you might not be able to see the big picture. If you have a boat to get in the middle of the biggest bass, you would swear that the fishery is perfectly fine.

    When Bob Pond first started talking about conservation and founded Stripers Unlimited, people made fun of him. They ridiculed him behind his back, and thought he was delusional as well.

    They called him "Chicken little".

    Eventually, they began to understand some of the things he was talking about on their own. Today, most people realize that Bob Pond was way ahead of his time and could see things that others couldn't.

    Don't be ready to lump me in as a Rec Fishing lobbyist just yet. I have some serious issues with the recreational industry, the NJ bonus tags, and how we as recreationals report our catches, and the ego and greed I have witnessed first hand on the part of many recreational guys.

    Those things have to somehow be addressed if the striped bass fishery will continue to exist as a sustainable one.

    As it is now, I maintain it isn't sustainable, and the landings, as most recently reported, will continue to decline. The latest stats for this were revealed at the hearing, and both sides made mention of it.

    If it's not addressed by addressing the hidden issues, and the increased pressure placed on bass by all the other closures, the landings could continue to decline. I stand by that statement.

    Don't take my word for it, I'm just a goog with a white bucket!

    That's why I take such time to record and document stories by you, Finchaser the Old Grouchy Bassturd, Gunny/aka Stripercoast1, LilcoJoe from Montauk, Surfwalker, Clamchucker, etc, etc, and the many old-timers I have been fortunate to meet, who ask me to continue to speak out, because they're tired of preaching when no one seems to be listening.

    And I'll continue to speak out, as long as I have you to fire me up with your rants and raves.

  6. #6
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    sb = striped bass
    cf = commercial fishing
    rf = recreational fishing
    sf = striper's forever
    mv = Martha's vineyard
    cc = Cape Cod
    ccchfa = Cape Cod commercial hook fisherman's assoc

    RF is from your codes.

    And by the way if we do away with bonus tags the bass allotted to that program will be given to the general commercial quota.

    NJ as a game fish state got the bonus program which started as a trophy tag for a fish over 40" when there really weren't many. Then some how they let the head boats tag cover everyone on board( peace offering for reduced season and bag limits on other fish).
    Mass would have to adopt a similar program or loose there fish, the managers can't just let them live as part of conservation.

    Next fish grew through the years and bunker supplies increased and now everything is out of control. Many people in charge of fisheries managment are appointed and have no marine biology training but plenty of time on their hands to institute these lame programs.


    You have much to learn grasshopper,but it is all part of your lobbyist training so you can educate them.

    Pay attention to what history has taught us or be prepared to relive it again

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    Quote Originally Posted by finchaser View Post
    And by the way if we do away with bonus tags the bass allotted to that program will be given to the general commercial quota.
    You and I are gonna have to disagree on this one Fin. I know what you're saying is the truth. I researched it, and learned things can't always be looked at in black and white.
    However, the loose regulation of this NJ bonus tag program is a serious issue. I know most fishermen out there are honest and want to respect the regs. Possessing that tag gives the dishonest ones a chance to cheat, and get away with it very easily.

    They only risk getting caught on the small chance they are stopped by a DFG officer. Otherwise, possessing the tag gives the dishonest ones carte blanche to take 3 keepers every time they go out until they're stopped.

    If we want to complain about the poaching and reg violating the cf are doing, we need to look at ourselves and make sure our own hands aren't bloody.

    So IMO even though we would give up that allocation to another coastal state, so be it. I don't think we will ever, or should try to, eliminate all forms of commercial fishing in every state.

    However we must do a better job of regulating the areas in BOTH cf and rf that are easily abused. If not we'll never get a true handle on the actual striper landings.



    Quote Originally Posted by finchaser View Post
    Many people in charge of fisheries managment are appointed and have no marine biology training but plenty of time on their hands to institute these lame programs.


    You have much to learn grasshopper,but it is all part of your lobbyist training so you can educate them.
    I get a and 2 s from you? That is the ultimate compliment, I'm honored!

    The great lie in fisheries management is that they represent the fishermen fairly. How could they, if they've removed many of the fishermen committee members, one by one?

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    Default **** Russell, author of striper wars

    **** Russel wrote the book Striper Wars. I think it was published in 2005, chronicling the timeline.

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    One of the chapters in there is dedicated to Bob Pond. A little about his book:

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    [Mr. Pond, a resident of Attleboro and North Attleboro, was an avid fisherman who revolutionized striped bass fishing in the 1940s after discovering a method for catching the fish on the surface. He turned his knowledge into a business manufacturing multi-hooked swimming lures that the game fish found irresistible.
    His Attleboro-based Atom Manufacturing cranked out wooden and plastic lures beginning in 1945 and continuing after he sold the business in 1998.
    Mr. Pond was also a visionary in conservation, pointing out the threat to the fish from coastal fish traps and diseases.
    Founder of the conservation group Stripers Unlimited, Pond's work, alongside that of the late Rhode Island Sen. John Chafee, is widely credited with helping save striped bass from extinction along the East Coast.
    Mr. Pond persisted in his efforts despite being scoffed at by many sportsmen and scientists. Today, bass fishing constitutes a $1 billion a year business, said New York writer Frank Pintauro, who noted that Pond's vision helped open America's coastlines to a new, populist sport.
    "At the end of World War II, when America's beaches were becoming a playground for everyman, rather than just the wealthy, Bob was a pioneer lure maker for what some have called the golden age of surf-casting," he said. "He was an extraordinary guy."
    So influential was Mr. Pond's role in molding the sport, that some of his original lures have fetched up to $750 apiece from collectors.
    But Mr. Pond's efforts in awakening the need for conservation is perhaps his most important legacy.
    "Bob Pond was way out ahead of all the experts in sounding the alarm in the 1960s about dangers facing the striped bass, and without his tireless efforts on this magnificent fish's behalf, we wouldn't be out there catching them today," said **** Russell, environmental journalist and author of "Striper Wars: An American Fish Story. "He was a pioneer in ocean conservation, long before the impacts of overfishing and coastal pollution became topics of widespread concern." Russell's book contains a chapter about Pond's work. ]


    ***************************************

    I didn't get a chance to personally meet Mr Russell or any of the other sf guys.

    However, I did read up on some of his articles. I thought they made sense. I also looked for a hidden agenda. I went to his web site and looked for any PETA or PEW Trust affiliations. I can tell you that if I found any of those, I wouldn't be talking about him here.

    I did read that he was an "environmentalist".

    I don't like that term, and don't consciously associate with anyone who's described like that. I feel I have nothing in common with tree huggers.

    Even though I care deeply about striped bass, I would never want to be labeled an environmentalist. The word has too many elite connotations for me.

    Anyone who can share anything else about Mr Russell, positive or negative, please let me know.


    Here's a link to his site. It talks about how he was involved in striped bass conservation in the 1980's when the stocks collapsed. If he still has the same passion for striped bass 25 years after the stocks collapsed and were brought back, I have to give him some credit:

    His testimony and statement:
    http://www.dickrussell.org/index.htm


    Saving stripers will require tighter net of regulations 2-6-09
    http://www.dickrussell.org/articles/savingstripers.htm


    Striped bass in trouble again? 12-13-08
    http://www.dickrussell.org/articles/trouble.htm

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