S&A Education Series: NJ's resident bass, why have they abandoned us?

[finchaser]

You wouldn't believe the amount of bass that are taken each year in March that are gut hooked. They throw them in the bushes and then fillet and bbq them right on the beach so they don't get busted or they hide them till ready to leave and then backpack them out. I do think that the problem is bigger than that. People are keeping too many bass period.

agreed on too many kept^^^^

[storminsteve]

yeah but people are never going to do anything about it until the last cow is filleted. Then they will scratch there heads and say oh my where did they go?

[jigfreak]

^^ add the tackle shop heroes and bunker snaggers to that list. I am a man cause I got a 50 on a live bunker. Big deal. If I was in Africa and cut the feet off a live lamb you could bet I could shoot a big lioness or find a big lion to shoot too. Where is the skill involved? All about ego and chest beating. No one cares that there are less bass as long as there is one 50 left with their name on it.

[hookset]

Wondered if any body had thoughts on the mix of the bass here now and what % you estimate are resident vs migrators.

[baitstealer]

agreed on too many kept^^^^

I am trying to understand all this maybe you guys can help me. According to some of the reports online I am reading it looks like small bass are finally back. Finchaser you said too many are kept. If thats true how can there be enough to make babies? Have read some of the posts here where you guys say the bass numbers are down. This includes the small bass too? I read up in massachusetts they had a good spring run with schoolie stripers. Is it the right assumption that now when we get the schoolies we have to wait for them to come back from massachusetts? Or do they go somewhere else in the summer like far out into the ocean. Thanks for the help

[DarkSkies]

In a similar way, there are a lot of us who feel that the striped bass biomass figures (the end result calculations, extrapolated from small sample sizes..the catch data....which is mostly accurate for commercials because of the stringent reporting, but not that accurate for recreationals because of sloppy reporting)......

is shrinking......not because we don't like statistics, but because we are out there, more than most..and that is what we see.....because of the time we spend on the water...and the logs we keep year after year...




Many of the veteran saltwater fishermen, fishing for more than a few decades, have noticed a decline in the past 5 years or so.

Unfortunately, regulatory boards don't feel adding the perspective of veteran fishermen with no agenda, to the board, would help the fishery....so we have a disconnect between what regulatory boards claim, and what many of us are actually seeing, and what I am seeing...

1 Less fish per trip
2. Plenty of bait inshore, but less fish on them.
3. Greater gaps in different year classes of fish.

Many of the saltwater fishermen who have decades of experience are noticing the similarities between the conditions that exist now...and the moratorium in the 1980's.....

A. There seemed to be plenty of big fish back then,,,
B. There were many areas where the fish seemed to be less plentiful, as is the case now...
C. The other areas, the fish were stacked up so tightly, there were those who discounted that there was any trouble with the bass stocks.
D. Then, as now, the scientific findings, and regulatory board did not catch up with what what was happening with the fishery, until it was too late.....and the stocks collapsed, resulting in a long slow road back to being rebuilt.


Awareness of this, would then perhaps cause some members to see that history is repeating itself.




Food for thought......
I know talking about stats is boring, but the way some data is calculated, I thought some of the newer guys might not be aware of it...and it's important....
Thanks for reading....

[DarkSkies]

Bass are Shrinking in LI as well --
Further evidence that there are certain year classes of striped bass (particularly the smaller ones up to 28", corresponding to 1-7 year old fish) and the larger bass, (particularly the ones 35# and over)...that have large gaps, because these bass are no longer here in the numbers that used to exist, just a few short years ago:



Some comments on Montauk fishing below, and the overall Quality of bass fishing from the surf at Montauk this year. For those who aren't aware...Montauk is an accepted bass migration highway....a stop on the migration trail.....when you can't find bass anywhere else, you can always find them at Montauk......
This was true 15-20 years ago, but as supported by the comments below, not true any longer, to the same extent......




Comment from someone who spends a good deal of every season camped out at Montauk....you would think if anyone could find bass up there, it would be someone who spends months at a time living in his camper out there...but this gentleman could not......I find his observations accurate and compelling.

Back at you dark....
We do have to do something....

1. being on the beach in my camper from Memorial Day to thanksgiving, every weekend and knowing some good local contacts.....
2. fishing was DEAD on then north Side most of the year.....
3. a few nice fish in June and July....and you mostly had to go deep into the south side to get them.....
4. if it wasn't for the cocktails, there wouldnt be anything.....plenty of big fish in the rips at night.....but dead on the beach...

There are many reasons but one thing I noticed was when the cocktails took over and replaced the 5-8 blues years ago, in the summer, it changed.....it reminded me of fire island inlet with lots of cocktails and little else.....until the bass moved out ....while the boat guys did ok....

there was NO fall run at shagwon, north side!
but a couple weeks of good bass in on the sand beaches. this has become a regular pattern the last few years! well before Sandy.

A. I have never fished so many nights on the north side and struck out....in my wetsuit?
B. there was always a summer residency of bass there.....not anymore.....just a few thoughts...

Most know who Willie Young is...
For the benefit of those who don't.....he is one of the most celebrated Montauk surfcasters, been fishing the Salt in and around LI for over 50 years....I would think that if there were fish to be found, Willie would be able to find them.........he's the one quoted below......

Also the big bass that were on the sand in the daylight hours in the summer. Gone.
Willie

"Gone" as in meaning that they do not show up any more in the numbers that they used to, going back 10 years and more.....
Food for thought......thanks for reading.....

[cowherder]

Why would people doubt this? We used to have a lot of smaller bass at sandy hook. Now they only come around in numbers in october. Something has definitely changed. Thanks for the info

[DarkSkies]

I just wrote this today, thought some might like to read it......if you disagree, would like to hear that as well, and why.....




Early Season RB/NY Bight fishery....
Some observations....As I mentioned, I have only been fishing that area for 25 years.....
The observations here...come mostly from the last 15 years, 8 of which I have seen a noticeable decline......and meeting others who seem to have the same observations..





1. Where are the Small Bass?
As mentioned, there are literally thousands of bass that winter over
a. in the harbors/deep channels of the NY Bight and the Arthur Kill.
b. (There is also a deep trench in the Croton area where many historically winter)

These are the bass (part A) you hear about being caught the first weeks the season is open....typically, most under 24"...with a few teen fish mixed in. 2011 was a notably high YOY count.....while some of the other years were poor......
I have noticed a gap in small bass populations for the last 2 years for this area
*(With one specific exception, will go into more detail for those who want to hear about it)
Whatever the reason, it's what I and others are noticing......

2. Sandy caused some structural changes to the bay...some areas became "dead" for fish and forage.....I'll try to come back and go into more detail when I get a chance.....

3. Scarcity and Concentration - This "death" in some other areas, caused opportunity for concentration in other areas....such as the Old Orchard Light area....which now holds more fish than it ever has, at certain times in the season...Capts who know and use these areas to their advantage are able to catch more consistenty....








4. Late Start? or less Holdover bass.....
Many of you out there know the early pattern for the bass to turn on...shallow water, mud flats....clam beds..we typically enjoy this early holdover action for a few weeks before the early Hudson migrators arrive from down south....

A. Some of you might argue that with the cold winter.,.....the Hudson, Chesapeake, and Delaware migrators, were somewhat delayed.... I would agree with that.....

B. But what about the holdovers?
We have had decent weather in the NY Bight area for 2 weeks now...(with the exception of the last 48 hours)...the important thing...water temperatures are optimal for a robust bass bite...and this has not happened as of yet....

C. Forage available...
Bunker have been in the bay area since March (albeit in smaller pods, and more scattered, but they have still been there)...
Herring have been in our area for over a week.....

D. Early season catches.....
The contacts I have, on both sides of the Raritan Bay/NY Bight....have only caught a few teen bass so far...and a few dozen small bass...
**These same anglers catch fish to 30# every year before the migratory bass get here....(yes, there are a few holdover bass that size, for whatever reason they stay in the Arthur Kill and NY Harbor deepwater channels in the winter).....
These same friends report only a few fish this year.....to the high teens...
Friends in Brooklyn were out trolling the other day and trolled a few teen bass....

Overall, they are not getting the numbers, that they used to get.....
This is a recurring theme I hear over and over from seasoned anglers and Capts who fish this area....

[DarkSkies]

Thought I would bring this up again for Steve and anyone else who wants to learn some things....

Has anyone caught numbers of bass in the Shrewsbury or Navesink rivers in the last 2 months?
I know old-timers who live close by and fish there every day...and keep repeating how terrible it has been compared to a decade ago......

There has been a tremendous build up of bait in some of the Secondary areas, like the ones above....small bluefish, fluke, rays, dogfish, and other species are feeding voraciously, and very few bass to be found......

Feel free to chime in with any comments you may have.....

[BassBuddah]

Hope this is the right thread. If not please put it somewhere it will do the most good. Found these comments on youtube by Frank Theo, a guy who fished during the moratorium:

"I've been fishing the surf plugging buck tailing and throwing tins off of Breezy Point and parts of Riis Park & L.I. for over thirty years and haven't seen schoolie bass in the back bay area's as well as the ocean like I use to when I was a kid."