S&A Education Series: NJ's resident bass, why have they abandoned us?

[DarkSkies]

After an intense effort last night finding to try a pattern to get some decent fish, I finally saw the light.

There is a pattern....
Resident fish are not here in NJ in numbers like they were only a few short years ago.

Think I'm kidding? Do you have a stash of resident bass that you've been happily nailing, night after night, while more experienced anglers come up empty handed?

Say "yes" to that question, and my answer to you is that there is a very short list of places where guys can consistently put together catches of quality bass night after night, and many of them aren't accessible from the surf/shore by the general public.






I started this thread to once again get some of us into reasonable discussion why there are less bass around. That's the theorem I'll try to prove to you folks out there.

If anyone has a differing opinion, by all means post up. Please try to back up your opinion with some kind of data or anecdotal example how it applies to you as a surf angler.

Remember, I'm not saying bass aren't thick off our coast in 60' of water.

But the surf anglers could always count on the overflow for many years. For the past 3 years I've seen a severe decline in opportunity and places that hold fish.

Of course, if anyone wants to come out with me on a kayak, I'll show ya where tons of schoolies still gather. However, my point here is those bass aren't necessarily available to the shore anglers or surfcasters.

I thought we'd have some discussions here, to try to understand why.

[paco33]

I have been fishing for over 20 years. I hardly ever fish from the surf anymore, because it has been such a decline over that time. The bass seem to be in deeper water eating sandeels and herring.

[dogfish]

NJ stinks, all those factories and smokestacks have pushed waves of cancer all along the shores from the factory discharge. The fish smell this and stay off your shores. My bill will be in the mail, Dark.

[DarkSkies]

^ Thanks for your helpful thoughts.


************
The surfer and jetty country.... I'll try to bring you more stories like this when I have time, feel free to comment whether you agree or disagree, and why.


I have a friend, who lives in jetty country in Monmouth County. He's a fanatic fisherman, dedicated surfer, and good family man. In between all that, he's found time over the years to devote a lot of his time to fishing access issues, and put political pressure on politicians to pay attention to surfers and fishermen.

He's mostly a C&R guy, catching fish for the thrill and the solace it gives him, out there in the middle of the night on the rockpiles.

20 years ago, he had nights on the jetties where he'd C&R up to 1000# of fish. Yes, people, that number is absolutely accurate, 1000 lbs.
When was the last time you or anyone else you know got into 1000lbs of fishing action from the NJ surf?

It was a true bonanza, and he was out there every chance he could, having a blast.

He knows those jetties like the back of his hand. Anyone who wanted to learn them would be lucky to have him as a guide. Not only does he know the jetties, he knows the fish behavior and food sources each one holds, as there used to be different feeding cycles during the year.

He can hop those rocks like a billy goat, and as a surfer, he knows when the fish are there because he's frequently swimming among them on his early morning surfing jaunts.

He's mentioned to me that he can't understand why the bass are NOW only in abundance at those jetties for a few short months in the spring and the fall. Each year that window gets smaller. Meanwhile, the jetties hold seabass, blackfish, porgies, small forage fish, and skates and eels throughout the year. They draw fish because there are clams, crabs, shrimp, mussels, small invertebrates, and every food type you could imagine to make fish happy.

Yet, a decreasing presence of striped bass.







Some of the things he said to me yesterday...

"Ya know, it's over...there are no more big fish or numbers of fish for us surf guys. We used to have the bass rolling around us when we were surfing, and that was only a few short years ago. Now, they might do that for a month or 2, and they're gone."

"Surf fishing at night used to be something really special. It was the one way to get out there, get away from the pressures of life, some solitude, get some nice bass, and have a sense of achievement as a surf fisherman. Now, it's a vast area of dead sea, with only a few rays of sunshine in between."

"Guys talk of blitzes for a few minutes, it's comical. We used to have all-night blitzes, which would sometimes go on into days, as the fish feasted on the trapped bait. I haven't seen that in years"

"I can't tell you how many times I am out there, night after night, hoping for a few fish. And I do catch fish, but sometimes I question why the heck I'm out there, with the little amount of fish around."





Thanks for your honesty.
No ego here, just a mature, experienced rock hopper looking at the decline of striped bass, and asking himself what factors brought the decline to this level. He knows how to catch fish, he's done it thousands of times before. Yet the equivalent of a marine buffet he's walking on every night, still can't draw enough fish so he can catch a few bass and have some fun.


Why? - possible answers
1. Migration patterns change. All the fish are offshore.
OK I'll buy that, but the jetties always held a few resident bass for almost every month of the year. Now they don't....no matter how you analyze it there are less fish available.

2. There are actually less bass around than a few years ago. The striped bass biomass is declining. This is partly because many who had the chance to hear about it, and make choices because they fish and catch every day, continue to take their daily limit of big breeders. They could excercise their option to take less fish, but they don't.

[DarkSkies]

The M&M theory makes an analogy of striped bass fishing to a bowl of M&Ms.

It says that there seem to be more striped bass, to people fishing in the middle of the bowl of M&Ms, because they wouldn't notice any decline. Any decline would only be noticed on the edges of the bowl.
More discussion on that theory here:
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...+theory&page=8

M&Ms - posts 69 & 69
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...+theory&page=7


The OFFC (Old Farts Fishing Club) used to hammer this theme into me every time we fished together, only they didn't call it the M&M theory. They saw it in simpler terms.They said the surf fishermen are fishing on the edges, and as we benefit from the overflow of the fish from the offshore migration, we could be the first to notice any declines in fishing. To me, that's similar to the canary in the coal mine, where miners placed a canary in the mine to warn them of deadly invisible gases. If the canary died, it was time for all to leave ASAP.


So you can call it the M&M theory, or the Canary in a coal mine theory. I think either of them offers a reasonable partial explanation of why there are less resident bass available for surf fishermen.

[DarkSkies]

Many of those in the surf and boating word know Finchaser, with over 55 years of fishing experience.

He's got many theories. As one fortunate enough to know him, I've heard a few. Some of the themes you see on a recurring basis in these threads here are due to his wisdom and the years of knowledge he's gained.

He saw the abundance of the pre-1984 Moratorium years, and the decline.
He's seen the phenomenal recovery in striped bass stocks after the Moratorium was imposed.
He's also seen the relatively recent decline in catch numbers for most of the seasoned surf guys in the NJ area.

Anyone who has a chance should listen to some of the posts and warnings he's putting out there. Though he's known to be Grouchy his posts paint a picture to anyone who'll listen, of what's really going on.

There is no diplomacy or sugar-coating in a Finchaser post, he tells it like he sees it.

And what he sees are a decline in the bass available to us surf fishermen, which also implies a decline in resident bass somewhere along the road.



Sometimes I wonder if guys really care about any of this. A post about 40 or 50# bass will always draw lots of interest.
Or...will it take months or years of declining catches or skunked trips for many of you to actually start scratching your heads and asking "Why?"

My point to you is that sometimes it's not so much the catching that's important, someone will always be catching something.

But when there is a sustained lull in activity during what's historically prime time for fishing, it makes sense to question why that's happening...

[basshunter]

Resident fish are not here in NJ in numbers like they were only a few short years ago.

Think I'm kidding? Do you have a stash of resident bass that you've been happily nailing, night after night, while more experienced anglers come up empty handed?

Say "yes" to that question, and my answer to you is that there is a very short list of places where guys can consistently put together catches of quality bass night after night, and many of them aren't accessible from the surf/shore by the general public.

Good point darkskies. A lot of guys in S Jersey fish bridges, back sides of inlets, or the plant. There are always bass around places like that. The real test if there are fish around are if they are distributed over a lot of places. In my experience they are not. So you have to take that into consideration. If a guy is bragging that he gets fish every night, like you said he is usually fishing one honey hole. And you can't have a lot of guys fishing that, or it will be ruined.

[nitestrikes]

I don't know what the answer is DS, but I am guessing it has something to do with your NJ shoreline, has anything changed in the past few years?
We are having a great fall on the SS of Long Island right now. You still have to work for the bass, but we have been catching them solid for over a month now, and sporadically through the late summer from the surf. I'm not talking just Montauk either, just your average beach with cuts and jetties on the SS.

[DarkSkies]

In a similar way, there are a lot of us who feel that the striped bass biomass figures (the end result calculations, extrapolated from small sample sizes..the catch data....which is mostly accurate for commercials because of the stringent reporting, but not that accurate for recreationals because of sloppy reporting)......

is shrinking......not because we don't like statistics, but because we are out there, more than most..and that is what we see.....because of the time we spend on the water...and the logs we keep year after year...




Many of the veteran saltwater fishermen, fishing for more than a few decades, have noticed a decline in the past 5 years or so.

Unfortunately, regulatory boards don't feel adding the perspective of veteran fishermen with no agenda, to the board, would help the fishery....so we have a disconnect between what regulatory boards claim, and what many of us are actually seeing, and what I am seeing...

1 Less fish per trip
2. Plenty of bait inshore, but less fish on them.
3. Greater gaps in different year classes of fish.

Many of the saltwater fishermen who have decades of experience are noticing the similarities between the conditions that exist now...and the moratorium in the 1980's.....

A. There seemed to be plenty of big fish back then,,,
B. There were many areas where the fish seemed to be less plentiful, as is the case now...
C. The other areas, the fish were stacked up so tightly, there were those who discounted that there was any trouble with the bass stocks.
D. Then, as now, the scientific findings, and regulatory board did not catch up with what what was happening with the fishery, until it was too late.....and the stocks collapsed, resulting in a long slow road back to being rebuilt.


Awareness of this, would then perhaps cause some members to see that history is repeating itself.




Food for thought......
I know talking about stats is boring, but the way some data is calculated, I thought some of the newer guys might not be aware of it...and it's important....
Thanks for reading....

[DarkSkies]

Bass are Shrinking in LI as well --
Further evidence that there are certain year classes of striped bass (particularly the smaller ones up to 28", corresponding to 1-7 year old fish) and the larger bass, (particularly the ones 35# and over)...that have large gaps, because these bass are no longer here in the numbers that used to exist, just a few short years ago:



Some comments on Montauk fishing below, and the overall Quality of bass fishing from the surf at Montauk this year. For those who aren't aware...Montauk is an accepted bass migration highway....a stop on the migration trail.....when you can't find bass anywhere else, you can always find them at Montauk......
This was true 15-20 years ago, but as supported by the comments below, not true any longer, to the same extent......




Comment from someone who spends a good deal of every season camped out at Montauk....you would think if anyone could find bass up there, it would be someone who spends months at a time living in his camper out there...but this gentleman could not......I find his observations accurate and compelling.

Back at you dark....
We do have to do something....

1. being on the beach in my camper from Memorial Day to thanksgiving, every weekend and knowing some good local contacts.....
2. fishing was DEAD on then north Side most of the year.....
3. a few nice fish in June and July....and you mostly had to go deep into the south side to get them.....
4. if it wasn't for the cocktails, there wouldnt be anything.....plenty of big fish in the rips at night.....but dead on the beach...

There are many reasons but one thing I noticed was when the cocktails took over and replaced the 5-8 blues years ago, in the summer, it changed.....it reminded me of fire island inlet with lots of cocktails and little else.....until the bass moved out ....while the boat guys did ok....

there was NO fall run at shagwon, north side!
but a couple weeks of good bass in on the sand beaches. this has become a regular pattern the last few years! well before Sandy.

A. I have never fished so many nights on the north side and struck out....in my wetsuit?
B. there was always a summer residency of bass there.....not anymore.....just a few thoughts...

Most know who Willie Young is...
For the benefit of those who don't.....he is one of the most celebrated Montauk surfcasters, been fishing the Salt in and around LI for over 50 years....I would think that if there were fish to be found, Willie would be able to find them.........he's the one quoted below......

Also the big bass that were on the sand in the daylight hours in the summer. Gone.
Willie

"Gone" as in meaning that they do not show up any more in the numbers that they used to, going back 10 years and more.....
Food for thought......thanks for reading.....

[cowherder]

Why would people doubt this? We used to have a lot of smaller bass at sandy hook. Now they only come around in numbers in october. Something has definitely changed. Thanks for the info

[DarkSkies]

I just wrote this today, thought some might like to read it......if you disagree, would like to hear that as well, and why.....




Early Season RB/NY Bight fishery....
Some observations....As I mentioned, I have only been fishing that area for 25 years.....
The observations here...come mostly from the last 15 years, 8 of which I have seen a noticeable decline......and meeting others who seem to have the same observations..





1. Where are the Small Bass?
As mentioned, there are literally thousands of bass that winter over
a. in the harbors/deep channels of the NY Bight and the Arthur Kill.
b. (There is also a deep trench in the Croton area where many historically winter)

These are the bass (part A) you hear about being caught the first weeks the season is open....typically, most under 24"...with a few teen fish mixed in. 2011 was a notably high YOY count.....while some of the other years were poor......
I have noticed a gap in small bass populations for the last 2 years for this area
*(With one specific exception, will go into more detail for those who want to hear about it)
Whatever the reason, it's what I and others are noticing......

2. Sandy caused some structural changes to the bay...some areas became "dead" for fish and forage.....I'll try to come back and go into more detail when I get a chance.....

3. Scarcity and Concentration - This "death" in some other areas, caused opportunity for concentration in other areas....such as the Old Orchard Light area....which now holds more fish than it ever has, at certain times in the season...Capts who know and use these areas to their advantage are able to catch more consistenty....








4. Late Start? or less Holdover bass.....
Many of you out there know the early pattern for the bass to turn on...shallow water, mud flats....clam beds..we typically enjoy this early holdover action for a few weeks before the early Hudson migrators arrive from down south....

A. Some of you might argue that with the cold winter.,.....the Hudson, Chesapeake, and Delaware migrators, were somewhat delayed.... I would agree with that.....

B. But what about the holdovers?
We have had decent weather in the NY Bight area for 2 weeks now...(with the exception of the last 48 hours)...the important thing...water temperatures are optimal for a robust bass bite...and this has not happened as of yet....

C. Forage available...
Bunker have been in the bay area since March (albeit in smaller pods, and more scattered, but they have still been there)...
Herring have been in our area for over a week.....

D. Early season catches.....
The contacts I have, on both sides of the Raritan Bay/NY Bight....have only caught a few teen bass so far...and a few dozen small bass...
**These same anglers catch fish to 30# every year before the migratory bass get here....(yes, there are a few holdover bass that size, for whatever reason they stay in the Arthur Kill and NY Harbor deepwater channels in the winter).....
These same friends report only a few fish this year.....to the high teens...
Friends in Brooklyn were out trolling the other day and trolled a few teen bass....

Overall, they are not getting the numbers, that they used to get.....
This is a recurring theme I hear over and over from seasoned anglers and Capts who fish this area....

[DarkSkies]

Thought I would bring this up again for Steve and anyone else who wants to learn some things....

Has anyone caught numbers of bass in the Shrewsbury or Navesink rivers in the last 2 months?
I know old-timers who live close by and fish there every day...and keep repeating how terrible it has been compared to a decade ago......

There has been a tremendous build up of bait in some of the Secondary areas, like the ones above....small bluefish, fluke, rays, dogfish, and other species are feeding voraciously, and very few bass to be found......

Feel free to chime in with any comments you may have.....

[BassBuddah]

Hope this is the right thread. If not please put it somewhere it will do the most good. Found these comments on youtube by Frank Theo, a guy who fished during the moratorium:

"I've been fishing the surf plugging buck tailing and throwing tins off of Breezy Point and parts of Riis Park & L.I. for over thirty years and haven't seen schoolie bass in the back bay area's as well as the ocean like I use to when I was a kid."