S&A Education Series: NJ's resident bass, why have they abandoned us?

[DarkSkies]

To update this thread, the resident bass have been available for surfcasters for about 1 1/2 weeks now on a semi-steady basis. That still doesn't answer the question about where the hell they have been.

I find them on the T&W when kayaking in the LI Sound every time I fish there, even in the heat of the summer.

My opinion is still that there are less of them around, and less bass overall.

Some might say - "but Dark, look at all the incredible night action...surely that shows that there is no shortage of bass?"

To that I would respond....then why are so many areas of NJ beaches stone dead and not holding fish? Take away the few places of fantastic action, and what do you have, what would our season be like, and why not all up and down the surf zone for the whole coast?

Think about it...

All responses are welcome. I'm not trying to promote arguments here, but I am aggressively pushing to get you folks to think about this.

[basshunter]

To that I would respond....then why are so many areas of NJ beaches stone dead and not holding fish? Take away the few places of fantastic action, and what do you have, what would our season be like, and why not all up and down the surf zone for the whole coast?

Think about it...

All responses are welcome. I'm not trying to promote arguments here, but I am aggressively pushing to get you folks to think about this.

Wow that was kind of depressing. I skimmed through this thread and it was sad to read about how these fish were here and now are like hen's teeth in many beach areas. I don't know if you want to blame the dredging or lack of fish overall, but you can definitely see a difference. I think last year I wasn't catching bass consistently until the first week of october, even with all the baitfish. Of course there are always blues, but even they are on the small side this year.

[vpass]

This year so far i'm seeing more 13 inch to 20 inch bass caught the few times that i'm out. The year class 2 years ago must of been a decent one. It's been a few years since i seen fish that size. I guess you can conclude that we had a few bad striped bass spawns.

The last 3 years I was seeing lots of 26 to 27 inch bass. Those were our resident fish that got culled as soon as they passed the 28 inch mark. There is just to many fisherman keeping fish.

[surfstix1963]

I know I've probably said this a thousand times but the videos this year in NC really should give you some insight about why the fish aren't rolling at your feet as they were 15 yrs ago.The commercial slaughters are insane is that the only reason no but it contributes to it tremendously everyone of those dead fish not breeding or growing to a breeding size this is millions and millions of eggs.And I'm quite sure this is happening up and down the entire eastern seaboard NC just got video taped.

Another key factor I feel is the different coastwide regulations we are hammering just about every size class of multiple species with different regulations whats the answer you will never get a clear cut one because if you have one state with a smaller reg they are not going to want to let it go but eventually the result will be shut downs or closures more tonage given to the commercials and less to the recs eventually it will be over for everybody between dead loss and just simply taking more fish each year they can only reproduce so fast and the less there are the slower the reproduction which will= just about zip the comms will run themselves right out of business so they better hold on to their money because nobodys going to want their boats there useless. Then we have the people doing the regulating they are a giant problem they may have degrees but whats going on really they are clueless the fisherman are the ones that can whip out a log book and physically show you the decline in numbers year to year this is whats really going on with very accurate info rather than the BS we are relying on.

So why all the bait on the beaches and less fish yes therewill be more why less predators so you have the stage set but 1/2 the actors are not present I,ve seen the pattern in NY that the fish are in deeper water and also just ouside the breakers of the inlets and the boats are doing ok better than the surf crowd I also found the rats are generally on the beach sucking up the smaller bait.The last time I really fished I would go to the beach to watch the bait and fish swimming past all of us in about 60 ft. or so of water. I still truly believe the biggest bass everybody wants are history by the end of Sept. and I believe they are feeding on the fluke migration leaving the inlets from the bays as well as picking off some wreck species at slack water.(little tip) I love to toss an unweighted eel at slack water naturally more so in the dusk and dawn slack tides it can be done during the day during the migration as long as old yellow eyes isn't tearing up your eels.

I think it was about 10 yrs. ago there weren't many sandeels around but tons of p-nut bunker now the stage seemed to have reversed there has been more sandeels and alot less larger bait on the beaches and big fish do eat small bait but are they going to stay on a beach and munch on sandeels or slash through schools of bunker in deeper water instinctively these larger fish know through their lateral lines the vibations of small versus large food sources and there packing on the calories so where would you go the cover of deeper water and food or swim in ten ft. of water slurping sandeels I just feel if larger bait is available during the day it will generally be out deep if your lucky on the outer bar if you are really lucky some fish may push them in a cut where you may have a shot.Fishing on a beach is not going to yield much success except with some blues possibly they like to cruise the trough and just feast.Early morning and at dusk to darkness is when the bigger bait feels safer closer in and the bass will be in pursuit the sandeels will burrow pretty much or get sucked up by the rats.Bigger fish tend to school with each other they don't like to compete for food with the rats.

[paco33]

I think it was about 10 yrs. ago there weren't many sandeels around but tons of p-nut bunker now the stage seemed to have reversed there has been more sandeels and alot less larger bait on the beaches and big fish do eat small bait but are they going to stay on a beach and munch on sandeels or slash through schools of bunker in deeper water instinctively these larger fish know through their lateral lines the vibations of small versus large food sources and there packing on the calories so where would you go the cover of deeper water and food or swim in ten ft. of water slurping sandeels I just feel if larger bait is available during the day it will generally be out deep if your lucky on the outer bar if you are really lucky some fish may push them in a cut where you may have a shot.Fishing on a beach is not going to yield much success except with some blues possibly they like to cruise the trough and just feast.Early morning and at dusk to darkness is when the bigger bait feels safer closer in and the bass will be in pursuit the sandeels will burrow pretty much or get sucked up by the rats.Bigger fish tend to school with each other they don't like to compete for food with the rats.

Fascinating, thank you for that characterization. I agree that the peanut population seems to be way down. With all the bunker we see, and even now with bunker in January, how is it possible that there are not more peanuts around?

[baitstealer]

Good point. I don't fish as many places as you guys do, just a few beaches and the bayshore. Hardly any small bass this year except for March. I hope they come back.

[DarkSkies]

This is something I posted elsewhere. Thought it might be time to revisit this thread.....





" The area from Barnegat to Sea Bright......

There are generally no bass around in that area, year round, any more.

Other areas?, absolutely have some year round populations of resident bass...don't have time to list them all, but a few...in general terms...

Chesapeake Bay backwaters, yes
Cape May to Avalon, backwaters,yes
Delaware Bay, deepwater harbors, yes
Philly, deepwater harbors, yes
Mullica River, yes
Maurice River, probably
Toms River, maybe some but clearing out to the power plant when water temps get below 45 degrees.



Raritan Bay and NY Bight, yes, mostly in the deepest harbors and channels
Arthur kill, yes
Hudson River, yes
LI Sound, and the East River, yes,
The large rivers in Ct, dumping into the sound, yes



But as to the Barnegat to Sea Bright area, generally speaking, the bass leave for the winter. There are no resident bass, in numbers, except for the isolated area of the Power plant which provides warmer water and small forage they need to feed on.



Go look for them in January-March in the area mentioned .
You will not find them, in any numbers, in that area.

Another distinction guys might want to learn about is how resident fish become migrating fish, and vice versa, and what conditions happen to cause these transitions. "

[finchaser]

They're DEAD

[storminsteve]

You said it finchaser. We used to have these small school bass all over. You could get them from the inlets or sandy hook. In the beginning of the season this year I got most bass over 28". Didn't see the small ones till 2 weeks ago. Not good. We really need some slot limits or drop the catch limit to 1.

[cowherder]

Great thread here. I too agree with making the limit one striper.

[Monty]

Great thread here. I too agree with making the limit one striper.

I like the 1 bass at 36" or bigger.
That seemed to work last time (if my memory is correct).

[storminsteve]

I think the 36" size is good too. You would still have a chance of getting one from the surf. They would have a chance to breed a few years before becoming dinner. Win win on all levels.

[DarkSkies]

Just to add to this....
Recap of summer fishing....

I did catch fish, so you might argue that the residents are still here during that time.
Some were, but overall I feel only very few specific areas held fish, based on what and where I was catching, in NJ.

I would agree that we do have some residents. You can dive in many deepwater harbors and find a few near rocks, bulkheads, pilings, or ships and other structure.

Is the class of resident fish large enough to be noticed, or for most fishermen to catch them?

I would say, based on my experience, compared to that of 8-10 years ago, that our numbers of resident fish have severely declined. Enough for some to make the claim that there are none.

[DarkSkies]

Additionally, based on my observations, most of these "resident" fish leave for the summer now... they seek out cooler water. Even if that water is just 1-3 miles offshore, or somewhere else along the Coast.

Someone will always be able to point to a few fish they caught. I did catch them in the summer, but had to go to insane lengths to get a few.
There are several harbor and bridge areas in NJ estuaries where some fish can be caught throughout the summer.

IMO that doesn't change the fact that many of these fish that we used to count on being able to catch,,,,are no longer there.
And as part of educating and informing our readers and the fishing community, I thought it important to make this distinction.

thanks for reading, comments or questions always welcome.

[DarkSkies]

This is a link to a thread that talks about different flowers blooming and how to tell what fish are usually around at that time.
For the last 10 years I would know when to ramp up my fall fishing when these flowers bloomed.....

For the last 2 years, they have disappointed me...
I know there are other factors folks may point to, but I'm simply trying to raise awareness of the possibilities here...
Thanks for reading....

http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...-Fish-are-Here

Comments or differing opinions are welcome.

[jigfreak]

Also you should tell people that they were thick at the bridges for most of the year when the season was open. I dont think thats too bad to say cause we cant fish the bridges anymore because of those hispanic aholes that ruined if for everyone. It seems like those small bass disappeared from a lot of prime areas, even the Toms River doesn't hold as many as it used to.

[porgy75]

It seems like those small bass disappeared from a lot of prime areas, even the Toms River doesn't hold as many as it used to.

This is a question for jigfreak or anyone else who knows. On another site someone was saying that the bass winter over in the Shrewsbury and Navesink rivers. And yet here you are saying that the Toms River doesn't hold fish like it used to. So which is closer to reality and how do we know it to be true? Thanks in advance.

[hookset]

The rivers do not hold anywhere near the numbers of bass they were holding 5 years ago porgy. Whoever made that statement either has not fished in 5 years, is using old data, or is talking out of his ***. I agree with jigfreak.

[finchaser]

many were killed by clammers when gut hooked them with there small hooks in March also lets not forget the poachers and people from down Mehhico way who use the excuse we must feed our families.

[hookedonbass]

You wouldn't believe the amount of bass that are taken each year in March that are gut hooked. They throw them in the bushes and then fillet and bbq them right on the beach so they don't get busted or they hide them till ready to leave and then backpack them out. I do think that the problem is bigger than that. People are keeping too many bass period.